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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012 02 13 Consent 205 Requesting Approval of the City Commission Workshop Minutes- January 30, 2012COMMISSION AGENDA ITEM 205 February 13, 2012 Regular Meeting REQUEST: Requesting the City Commission Commission', Workshop Minutes. SYNOPSIS: One of the responsibilities of the City Clerk is to provide the Mayor and City Commission with a submittal of all Meeting Minutes, as soon after a City Commission meeting as possible; so, that it is a reminder to the Mayor and City Commission, as to what transpired at their most recent meeting, and also provides a record of the actions and directives of the City Commission, for the future, and which becomes the official record. If the City Commission is in agreement with what the City Clerk provides in these Minutes, then the City Commission would be asked to Approve the Minutes, as submitted. Should the Mayor and /or City Commission feel something is not appropriately documented in these Minutes, then a Motion would be appropriate to have the Minutes changed to reflect what the majority of the City Commission would prefer. CONSIDERATIONS: This Agenda Item includes the Minutes from the Monday, January 30, 2012 City Commission Workshop. Even though these Minutes are being submitted by the City Clerk, (with proofing by the Deputy City Clerk), no other party has required that changes be made to the Minutes before being submitted. Informational Consent X Public Hearings Regular ALLL City Manager Department the Monday, January 30, 2012 Ci Consent 205 PAGE 1 OF 2 - February 13, 2012 FISCAL IMPACT: There is no Fiscal Impact to this Agenda Item. COMMUNICATION EFFORTS: This Agenda Item has been electronically forwarded to the Mayor and City Commission, City Manager, City Attorney /Staff, and is available on the City's Website, LaserFiche, and the City's Server. Additionally, portions of this Agenda Item are typed verbatim on the respective Meeting Agenda which has also been electronically forwarded to the individuals noted above, and which is also available on the City's Website, LaserFiche, and the City's Server; has been sent to applicable City Staff, eAlert/eCitizen Recipients, Media/Press Representatives who have requested Agendas /Agenda Item information, Homeowner's Associations/Representatives on file with the City, and all individuals who have requested such information. This information has also been posted outside City Hall, posted inside City Hall with additional copies available for the General Public, and posted at five (5) different locations around the City. Furthermore, this information is also available to any individual requestors. City Staff is always willing to discuss this Agenda Item or any Agenda Item with any interested individuals. RECOMMENDATION: The City Commission is respectfully requested to Approve the Monday, January 30, 2012 City Commission Workshop Minutes. ATTACHMENTS: A — Monday, January 30, 2012 City Commission Workshop Minutes. Consent 205 PAGE 2 OF 2 - February 13, 2012 CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA CITY COMMISSION MINUTES WORKSHOP MONDAY, JANUARY 30, 2012 - 6:00 P.M. CITY HALL — COMMISSION CHAMBERS 1126 EAST STATE ROAD 434, WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA Mayor Charles Lacey Deputy Mayor Gary Bonner - Seat Three Commissioner Jean Hovey - Seat One Commissioner Rick Brown - Seat Two Commissioner Cade Resnick - Seat Four Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs - Seat Five C. =L.4 -v� CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 2 OF 12 CALL TO ORDER The Workshop of Monday, January 30, 2012 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor Charles Lacey at 6:01 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Mayor Charles Lacey, present Deputy Mayor Gary Bonner, present Commissioner Jean Hovey, present �a Commissioner Rick Brown, present �•t Commissioner Cade Resnick, present Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present �a City Manager Kevin L. Smith, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, arrived at 6:06 p.m. City Clerk Andrea Lorenzo - Luaces, present A Seminole County Board of County Commissioners and the Seminole County Public Schools School Board Joint Meeting scheduled for February 7 2012 was mentioned and whether members of the Winter Springs City Commission planned to attend. Commissioner Rick Brown said he would be attending; and Mayor Lacey thought he would be attending. Other Members of the City Commission also mentioned they would possibly be in attendance. With that, Mayor Lacey noted, "Sounds like we do need to Notice it." City Clerk Andrea Lorenzo - Luaces said this would be done. Next, Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs mentioned that related to matters concerning Elementary Schools, a resident, Mr. Dan Finley had asked for a letter on the City's position, as Mr. Finley plans to go before the Seminole County Public Schools School Board tomorrow. Commissioner Krebs added that she had mentioned this to City Manager Kevin L. Smith. Commissioner Krebs also suggested that additionally, at the next City Commission Meeting, "We can bring forward a Resolution." Regarding the letter that Commissioner Krebs alluded to, Manager Smith noted that in the interest of time, he drafted a letter for review and for the Mayor's signature, and then passed a copy to each of the Commissioners and stated, "If you are in agreement, then I will ask the Mayor to sign it and we will accommodate that request." In reference to the letter that Manager Smith just distributed, Mayor Lacey commented, "My position is, on a letter like this, I could just sign it, but it gets close to touching on Policy issues, that I would want to make sure we are reflecting the entire will of the Commission before we did that; so, I would certainly appreciate your concurrence on this before I put my name to it." Commissioner Krebs complimented Manager Smith on a great effort in putting the facts together. Related to agreeing that Mayor Lacey sign the letter, Deputy Mayor Gary Bonner stated, "I concur." Mayor Lacey then inquired of the City Commission, "Is there any objection to this letter going out from the City? Does anyone want more time to look at it before they agree ?" Hearing no objections, Mayor Lacey stated, "We will act accordingly." Following up, Commissioner Krebs then asked, "Can we bring back a Resolution at our next meeting ?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 3 OF 12 City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese arrived at 6:06 p.m. Manager Smith stated, "If that would be the will of this body, we will certainly bring it back at our next meeting. Mayor, do I have a Consensus ?" No objections were noted and Mayor Lacey stated, "Yes." C 1 '' PUBLIC INPUT Mayor Lacey asked if the City Commission would be flexible to hearing Public Input as it comes up during this evening. There were no objections to that. Mr. Bob Frilen (and Mrs. Annabell Frilen), 1602 White Dove Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: briefly mentioned that they could speak later. Mayor Lacey gave a brief overview of tonight's Workshop and remarked, "This is a Workshop, so it is not possible for the Commission to make a decision on this topic. This is just an educational session for us to understand the issues. At some future Commission meeting, if there is a decision for the Commission to be made, it will be made at that time." Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: mentioned he might have some comments during the Workshop. Seminole County Commissioner John Horan, and a resident of Tuscawilla Section 12 was recognized as being present. REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. Community Development Department REQUEST: The Community Development Department requests that the City Commission hold a public workshop regarding the condition of the wall at the Tuscawilla Units 12/12A subdivision. Manager Smith spoke on the proposed format of tonight's, Workshop. Mr. Steve Richart, Manager, Urban Beautification Division Services, Community Development Department introduced himself and stated, "As you know, this wall is starting to degrade quite a bit over time and some residents brought this issue before the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District last year, about mid -year, and the Advisory Board heard it and recommended that we take it to the Commission, so the Commission could hear the issue." Continuing, Mr. Richart said the wall was built in 1985 and "Originally, we believe that the Developer intended to set up a Homeowner's Association which is typical when you have common elements like a wall or landscaping or even ponds. Typically, you have a Homeowner's Association that's mandatory and they collect assessments to take care of stuff like this. Well, your subdivision didn't have that in Units 12 and 12A." Further comments followed on incomplete information, the Plat, that the builder of the wall was "Winter Springs Development Company ", that the wall was built in several sections, Deed Restrictions. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP — JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 4 OF 12 Mr. Richart added, "One thing is for sure, though to know the location of that wall exactly, to see where it's at, we're going to have to have a Survey, and we don't have a Survey of the whole wall. So we can't tell you where exactly it is. From what I can put together, it looks like part of it's in the right -of -way and part of it's in the Easement. So we just can't be sure until we do that and do a Survey and actually, some of it looks like to be on private property with no easement and no right -of -way as well." Mr. Brian Fields, P.E., City Engineer, Public Works Department reviewed basic terminology used in this discussion. Q y Mr. Richart then showed some slides related to the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District wall that was being addressed, followed by some suggestions and possible costs and options. Further comments. Mr. Tim Jones, 1600 White Cloud Court, Winter Springs, Florida: asked for clarification on the estimated annual maintenance costs. Mr. Richart responded by saying, "The annual total cost would for the annual program would be nineteen five roughly. The annual maintenance costs would be around nine thousand [dollars] ($9,000.00). And again, this is just an estimated cost. Obviously, as with everything we do, we would have the most competitive bids. There may be some years where we have very little maintenance and how that would work — we would have a sliding assessment so we would have a legal maximum to that assessment." Furthermore, Mr. Richart added, "Once you start maintaining the wall, you're always going to need to have a maintenance program of some sort." Discussion followed on which property the wall sits on; and a possible Survey /Straw Ballot that could be sent out. Mr. John Horan (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: asked how the Easement was granted? Mr. Fields stated, "The Easement was shown on the Plat. It was dedicated for the perpetual use of the public on the Plat." Mr. Richart noted, "It's also recorded in your Deed Restrictions." Mr. Horan then inquired if the Plat dedicated all of the right -of -ways to the public? Mr. Fields stated, "Yes — what we pulled up here on the screen is the Dedication, is in the upper right here and what that shows states, is that the Plat expressly dedicates the streets and Easements shown here on to the perpetual use of the public. That was on the Plat." Tape 1 /Side B Mr. Horan asked if the wall belonged to the public and if so, why has it not been maintained? Attorney Garganese commented on Florida Statutes and pointed out that it does state, "Nothing in the Statute or in the Plat will create an obligation on the governing body to perform any construction or maintenance within such dedicated areas, except when the obligation is voluntarily assumed by the governing body, which is in this case is the City Commission. Based on the limited information that we have to date, we haven't found anything in the Record where the City Commission has assumed the responsibility for the construction and the maintenance of the wall that's located perhaps in the Easement, perhaps in the right -of -way, or perhaps in some other place." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 5 OF 12 Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: commented on possible liability issues. Attorney Garganese remarked, "If it's in the right -of -way, that's ordinarily what the City controls. The City can take certain steps to remove private improvements that have been installed in the right -of -way. And to the extent that these are even rivate improvements in the Cit right-of-way, if the are in a state of disrepair, m general P P h' Y P Y g C ���► recommendation to the Commission is the Commission needs to do something about that part of the wall that's in the right -of -way; whether it's the removal of it or whatever." Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: then asked if the City had ever maintained the wall and mentioned that no one from the City had ever told him he was responsible for the wall. Attorney Garganese added, "One other document that's in the Record and I am just putting it in the Record, not for any other purpose at this stage of the discussion, but the Covenants that have been recorded for this particular project states that the Easement area of each lot and all improvements in it shall be maintained continuously by the owner of the lot, except for those improvements for which a public authority or utility company is responsible." Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: then mentioned repaired sidewalks with prompt service and the trees had been also been trimmed which he did not pay for. Mr. Fields explained, "The sidewalk is in the right -of -way. The right -of -way is not an Easement and yes, that's something we have assumed maintenance responsibility for. The sidewalk is broken, you call us, we come out. Hopefully we promptly fix it to your satisfaction." Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: asked about "The area that is within the right -of -way, the portion of the wall - does anybody know what percentage of the wall, how many lineal feet is within the right -of- way ?" Mr. Fields noted, "No. We would have to get a Survey to really get property corners and know for sure." Further comments followed. Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: then commented, "Based upon what you know right now, it would be fair to say that the majority of the wall is not within the right -of- way ?" Mr. Fields responded by saying, "I don't think we can answer that." Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: commented "How much of the wall would be within the right -of -way; if the right -of -way has eighty percent (80 %) of the wall and twenty percent (20 %) is within the Easement, or is within no particular area it seems to be that eighty percent (80 %) of the cost really should come from the public. If in fact you have a situation where you want to set a MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit), we can set up a MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit), I mean we have done it at the County quite a bit. It is difficult to set it up when you have such a small group." Mr. Horan was asked to define MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit) for the audience and explained, "Municipal Special Benefit Unit (MSBU) which is like the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District and basically what happens is you identify a particular special purpose and you assess people within that area so they can go ahead and get that special purpose." Continuing, Mr. Horan then asked why the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District did not address the wall problem and asked who would be maintaining the wall. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 6 OF 12 Mr. Richart explained, "The MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit) is very similar to the Assessment area that 9= we have; in fact it's almost identical. The reason the Assessment area makes sense is because we already have two (2) of them that we're doing and it'd be easy - we have the skeleton to set up another area within an area. So, essentially what we'd have is this would be an area within an area with the main TLBD (Tuscawilla Lighting and C a Beautification District). We'd have Phase I, we'd have Phase II. This could maybe be Phase III, would be specifically for the ninety (90) units in there." =L-d As to who would do the maintenance, Mr. Richart explained, "Let's say it was Phase III TLBD (Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District); it would just come from the Phase III area." Discussion. Mayor Lacey recognized former Commissioner Don Gilmore and former Commissioner Michael Blake who were in the audience and thanked them for attending. Commissioner Jean Hovey asked about this being part of the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District. Mr. Richart said, "It can." Mr. Richart then commented briefly on who should be assessed and added, "It would be if you had a benefit based Assessment for that particular ninety (90) homes that are in that area." Manager Smith added, "If that makes sense Commissioners, we don't know that definitely. We want to make sure. Could we assess all the residents of Tuscawilla, not that we should, but could we? I don't think we know that definitive answer, but we'll find out." Mr. Richart added, "We will, if we go down that road." Deputy Mayor Bonner inquired how much a Survey might cost and suggested that the City Manager and Staff get the numbers together on how much a Survey might cost. Mr. Fields suggested a Survey might cost roughly in the range of five thousand dollars ($5,000.00). Deputy Mayor Bonner added, "If my peers concur with me, I would like to ask the City Manager to pull that together for us, an estimate of that cost, an accurate cost for us." Ms. Susan Juge, 1624 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: as a resident of Unit 12, Ms. Juge mentioned her home is on the back side of Wood Duck Drive, against the woods; and Ms. Juge did not think that she gained any more benefit from the wall than anybody else in Tuscawilla who drives down Winter Springs Boulevard/Northern Way, and did not think she should have to pay any more to repair the wall. Mr. Arsenio Calle, 110 Arrrowhead Court, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke as a resident of Tuscawilla and in a community that has a private wall and did not think that other Tuscawilla residents should have to repair other community walls. Mr. Calle also suggested that if they did not want the wall, that he thought a Contractor might be willing to take down the wall for no cost, if the Contractor could keep the bricks. Commissioner Cade Resnick asked about the preference of those in attendance, keeping the wall and being able to pay for it versus not having the wall. Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: mentioned that the back of his yard is natural and the wall behind his home is hardly visible; that many of the neighboring owners have hedges along the wall as you can see through the wall; and that he liked the wall and felt there was a benefit to having the wall. Continuing, Mr. Lee mentioned possible television coverage; that perhaps the cost for repairs could be reduced; and thought the City should sustain some "If not all of the costs ". CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 7 OF 12 Commissioner Brown mentioned a similar situation with Creek's Run fence and similar language in their Covenants. Commissioner Brown added, "I think it is pretty standard language that the residents who own the lot ` are responsible for maintaining the improvements through the Easement. I think the only question remains is C � what to do with the lots that actually run through the right -of- way." Attorney Garganese noted, "That is one aspect. Then there's the other issue and it's whether or not the City assumed any responsibility in the past for maintaining this wall." Attorney Garganese added, "So, if you dispense with that issue, then the other part that the Commission would definitely need to address is that part of the wall that's in disrepair in the right -of- way." Commissioner Brown said, "I would have to agree. I think we go do a survey and then we do a ballot and see how much support there is, and maybe do a ballot for the whole TLBD (Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District) too, because there is a benefit to the whole community driving up that street; the beautification of that street definitely drives property values for the whole community. No different than the streetlighting on some of the off streets; the enhanced streetlighting, the street signs, and the fountains." Discussion. Commissioner Krebs asked Attorney Garganese about the Oak Forest Wall and Attorney Garganese noted that the City acquired Easement rights. Discussion followed on differences and rights. Attorney Garganese said, "Hypothetically, if the City wanted to take on the maintenance responsibilities for the wall and assume that responsibility, and the City wanted a separate funding source, the first thing the City would do is to ensure that it had the real property interest where the wall is laid. It's either in the right -of -way or it's in perhaps the publically dedicated Easement. Let's assume that's exactly where the wall is — one or the other. Then the City could look at creating a sub Special Assessment District and then we'd have to do the legal analysis to determine which property owners receive the special benefit from the wall like we did in Oak Forest, back in 1999. Once we determine which property owners get the special benefit, then we have to make sure that costs for the repair and the perpetual maintenance costs are properly apportioned to the property owners that receive different levels of benefits. Mr. Richart mentioned that regarding the Oak Forest community, there were a couple of benefits such as aesthetic benefits to having a wall, and also helping to provide a community identity for Oak Forest residents. Additionally, for the property owners residing closest to the wall, a sound attenuation benefit also existed. Attorney Garganese also said that the type of wall currently built, differs from the solid wall of the Oak Forest community, so they would need to review this difference. Commissioner Krebs then asked how much the Oak Forest wall cost? It was suggested by Staff that the cost was possibly between nine hundred thousand dollars ($900,000.00) to one million dollars ($1,000,000,000.00), and the cost was divided by approximately 900 property owners and spread over thirty (30) years. Next, Commissioner Brown suggested we need real numbers and need a Survey done to really address this issue and possible solutions. Mayor Lacey asked the City Commission, "Is there any objection from the Commission — is there general Consensus that we can ratify at a Regular Meeting to ask the Staff to do a Survey of all the affected lots ?" Deputy Mayor Bonner responded, "I agree to that." Commissioner Krebs remarked, "I agree to that and if we do go to Special Assessment District would those costs be — rolled into that ?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, F LORIDA MI NUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP — JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE H OF 12 Mayor Lacey then said, "That goes to my next question. Before we were to give that direction to the Staff, I would ask the Manager — do we have five thousand dollars ($5,000.00) you can find without dipping into Reserves, to spend on this unbudgeted item? Manager Smith said, "I anticipate that our ongoing savings through the diligence of Staff will come up with enough money to cover five thousand dollars ($5,000.00) by the end of the year." Mayor Lacey then referred back to Commissioner Krebs inquiry and stated, "Do we know, if we were to spend that money and then go through a Special Assessment, or MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit), would we be able to recover that ?" f— Manager Smith responded, "It seems like we would" but he would need to find out. Attorney Garganese added, "Probably." Commissioner Hovey mentioned that we cannot go ahead until we have a Survey. Further comments followed. Mayor Lacey summarized, "I think we have Consensus, so we will ask you to do some of your work with the budget, find five thousand [dollars] ($5,000.00) and do a Survey." Mr. Jack Rutherford, 1634 Winter Springs Boulevard, Winter Springs, Florida: commented on wanting to understand that after the Survey is completed, that the City will take care of its share of the costs, before any Assessment is levied against any property owners. Mayor Lacey commented, "I think first, we have to determine what is in the right -of -way and then, what is the City's obligation to maintain what is in the right -of- way." Mayor Lacey suggested that we would hope to know more at a later date. Mr. Ted Johnson, 1107 Pheasant Circle, Winter Springs, Florida: asked about liability if part of the wall should fall. Discussion Tape 2 /Side A Deputy Mayor Bonner stated, "As a City, we need to do something about that right, on behalf of our neighbors so this is just my opinion — our public safety is job number one as far as I am concerned! So, I think time — to me, that is the sense of urgency. We need to get the answers to these questions, so that we can move along expeditiously to address the public safety aspect of your question in my opinion. Now, looking for all the counsel and all the wishes to be known as quickly as possible as well, so that we can make the most informed decision. But to me, public safety is job one." Further comments. Mr. Ted Johnson, 1107 Pheasant Circle, Winter Springs, Florida: inquired if another Workshop would be held to discuss the results of the Survey. Manager Smith said, "That would be my thought." Deputy Mayor Bonner said, "Yes." Mayor Lacey added, "Sounds like the dialogue is needed." There were no objections voiced from the City Commission. CITY OF WINTER SPRING FLORIDA MINUT CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 9 OF 12 As to the proposed timeline, Mr. Fields stated, "We can have the Survey on the Consent Agenda at the next Commission meeting, next available time and/or get direction tonight. I'd say less than thirty (30) days." Manager Smith added, "I would want to make sure that we have a good Survey coming to you all and that members of the public feel like that they had an opportunity to review the Survey; so, maybe a little time to do that." Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: thought that the estimate of five thousand dollars ($5,000.00) for a Survey may be too low, but the facts do need to be known. Continuing, Mr. Horan suggested that the property owners in Unit 12 and 12A need to pay for the wall repair and maintenance in a "Disproportionate ratio" to whatever others in Tuscawilla might pay. Mr. Horan then commented on the benefits to all who travel down Winter Springs Boulevard; and the benefit should be calculated and a legal type vehicle should be created to accomplish this. Mr. Horan added, "How do you do that - you have got a great Attorney here" and referenced Attorney Garganese. Furthermore, Mr. Horan then remarked, "We also have to re -adopt our Restrictions and Covenants in Unit 12 and 12A. We have to form a Homeowner's Association to do that. They expire I think in fifteen (15) months. We're probably going to go ahead and do that. When we do that, we might be able to form an entity that could then contract with the Beautification District in some disproportionate way for the maintenance of that wall, so there are all kinds of options out there. But what really makes sense is we'll pay a certain percentage that is more than everybody else, but everybody benefits from the fact that that wall is there." Manager Smith asked Mr. Horan "What do I say to those residents of Tuscawilla that live in HOA's (Homeowner's Associations) that have walls and they're paying for their walls through the HOA (Homeowner's Association) ?" Mr. Horan responded, "Just tell them that Unit 12 is going to pay proportionately, a similar type of Assessment; that they would pay for the maintenance of their wall and calculate it out in whatever vehicle we have with the District - That's the point; is district 12 people don't have a problem with paying a certain amount for that benefit. What we're saying is don't spread it over ninety (90) houses, spread it over the entire Tuscawilla area and we'll pay a disproportionate amount, because we benefit more." Commissioner Brown asked Attorney Garganese, "For the portions of the wall that our Engineers may determine are in jeopardy of causing a public hazard, that sit in the Easement and are technically private property; I have never known the City to have the authority to go in and do anything on those, since they sit on private property; and especially when the Covenants say that they are the responsibility of the homeowner. How do we get around that ?" Attorney Garganese stated, "To get around that is to voluntarily assume the obligation to maintain the wall in the publicly dedicated Easements. Now if it's not — if it's not in the right -of -way and not in a publicly dedicated Easement, then the Survey would tell us that, then the City doesn't have any right to even go on the land, without permission of the property owner." i Commissioner Resnick asked Mr. Horan's about the possible costs and stated, "What would be the difference in the disproportionate number that you are talking about ?" CITY OF WINTER SPRING FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 10 OF 12 Mr. Horan stated, "You would have to have some kind of formula concerning what is the benefit to the entire Beautification District members by that wall, put a percentage on it, we take a certain percentage, the rest is spread over the rest of the people in the Beautification District. You would have to come up with some kind of formula to do that. But, I think people at the County can help you with how that is calculated because with the hundreds of Districts we have. Those kinds of calculations are done all the time and probably can be done by consent. Maybe the Tuscawilla Homeowner's Association could help in proposing some kind of a way to calculate that." Further comments. Commissioner Krebs sated, "I support the remark that our City Manager said." Further comments followed on the Oak Forest wall and benefits and how everyone might say, "I want my wall paid for too." Discussion. Mr. Arsenio Calle, 110 Arrrowhead Court, Winter Springs, Florida: commented on the wall and suggested that his neighbors might then ask others to help maintain the wall around his community, and said that it did not seem right to have tax dollars used to benefit one group. Different scenarios related to maintaining walls were then mentioned. Attorney Garganese noted, "It is probably more difficult to make a public purpose dedication for a wall that's been up for a number of years, versus building a new one for a certain purpose." Discussion followed on how a Survey might be helpful; and a similar fence issue between Howell Creek Reserve and Creek's Run. A resident of Unit 12, mentioned if an Homeowner's Association was formed, that he thought that any Assessments would have to be voluntary. Ms. Joyce Sundman, 991 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke as a resident of Unit 12A and that due to someone running into her wall, she and her husband personally replaced almost half of their wall and thought that any Assessment should fall more on the people whose properties back up to the wall, but to all ninety (90) property owners as they all benefit. Ms. Sundman also questioned, "If I own the wall, why couldn't I just go in there and build it back the way it was." Mr. Randy Stevenson, ASLA, AICP, Director, Community Development Department remarked, "I can't speak to this particular case, we'll check into it; but it is standard. Things that are built that are destroyed, once when they're re- built, they have to be re -built to the current Code." Mr. Bill Mitzo, 1611 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: noted that some portions of the wall are failing, and noted that at the corner of Wood Duck Drive and Winter Springs Boulevard, approximately ten (10) Elementary School children, including his grandchild wait for a bus at that corner and as kids do, they climb the wall. Mr. Mitzo mentioned his concern for their personal safety. Additionally, Mr. Mitzo mentioned that if the fence is taken down, their privacy is gone, and then if each property owner puts up their own fence, they could all be different causing an eyesore to their Glen Eagle neighbors and anyone who drives down Winter Springs Boulevard. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 11 OF 12 Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: commented further on public safety concerns and Easements. pz�:a Deputy Mayor Bonner pointed out, "Clearly the Survey is necessary if only to amend the public record that seems to be deficient." Further, Deputy Mayor Bonner noted, "The public safety matter is paramount to me, so that is why I am insistent that we move expeditiously to get the facts so that we can address the public safety matter expeditiously. The concern about the bus stop even elevates the public safety need greater. I was not aware of the bus stop matter." Mr. Bill Mitzo, 1611 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: noted that his daughter and some neighbors had gone to the School Board to get the bus stop changed, "and they won't do it." Commissioner Hovey stated, "Would you see me afterwards because I will definitely call Dr. (Bill) Vogel about that." Mr. Mitzo responded, "Yes, I will." Mayor Lacey explained, "The Easement is still private property upon which just grants access to the property that has been granted." Commissioner Hovey remarked, "Even if we have to spend ten thousand dollars ($10,000.00) to figure out who owns what and where the bricks are. Ultimately it could be a minimal charge if something happens; and we can't do anything until we have that Survey, so we have to move forward." Deputy Mayor Bonner stated, "I think the next step is as conveyed by Staff is that they can have recommendation before us at the next Regular Commission Meeting, on an amount of money to conduct the Survey. At that time we will be able to Vote to spend that money and the Commission will tender its Vote as we do and then we can get the facts and then I think the by- product of those facts are to bring that back in a public Workshop setting so that everyone can benefit from that information and we can have the opportunity for additional dialogue." Manager Smith said, "If you all are of the mindset to go forward with the Survey, technically it's not necessary to bring that back as an Agenda Item, it's within my purview of authority dollar wise; so, I can move forward if that'd be your pleasure with the Survey post haste. I would then ask Brian (Fields) to maybe report back at the next Commission Meeting to set a Workshop date, once we have a better idea of the timeline for completion of the survey and putting everything together." Mayor Lacey remarked, "If we are not going to have it come back as an Agenda Item, then — I want to make absolutely sure that the Commission is agreeable to that. Is there any objection to the Manager proceeding on his own authority to sanction the - Survey ?" Commissioner Brown stated, "No." Deputy Mayor Bonner added, "No objection." No objections were voiced. Continuing, Mayor Lacey commented, "So, then for the scheduling of the following Workshop, I don't think we can set a date now because we don't know the time. But, can we get a rough idea of how long you think it is going to take..." Mr. Fields noted, "...I said thirty (30) days and five thousand dollars ($5,000.00). I hate to commit to that without knowing either of them but I think that would be a ballpark - hopefully we will beat that on both sides." Mayor Lacey remarked, "In two (2) weeks, when we meet at our Regular Meeting, why don't we set the date then, when Brian (Fields) gives us a progress report on it." Commissioner Brown asked, "Can you identify any areas that are in imminent danger, that we may need to suggest taking action on before then." CITY OF WINTER SPRI FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP — JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 12 OF 12 Mr. Fields responded, "We can. The Building Official has looked at it. I've looked at it." Continuing, Mr. Fields explained, "It's hard to say where it's in imminent risk of failure. It's in disrepair in certain areas but that's going to be really hard. You want to be conservative in that judgment. But we will take a closer look. If we see something that just needs to be — immediate action needs to be taken, we will." Furthermore, Commissioner Brown added, "I would say if a ten (10) year old climbing on it is going to knock it over, we probably should be looking at doing something about it." Attorney Garganese suggested, "If it's just posting the wall where it is a hazardous situation, not unlike unsafe buildings, where the Building Official has the authority to go out and post, at least provide public notice that there may be an issue - the City should have placards for unsafe buildings and structures. If it rises to that level, then the Building Official should exercise his discretion and post the wall." Mayor Lacey asked Manager Smith if he was clear on his direction as to how to proceed. Manager Smith stated, "We're going to move forward with a Survey. We're going to report back to this body at the next regularly scheduled Commission Meeting on a status report; and if we are able to at that point in time, we'll ask you all to set a Workshop date and we'll immediately communicate that to everyone in the audience and post it accordingly." PUBLIC INPUT No one addressed the Mayor and City Commission at this time. Mayor Lacy closed "Public Input". ADJOURNMENT Mayor Lacey adjourned the Workshop at 8:07 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: ANDREA LORENZO- LUACES, MMC CITY CLERK APPROVED: MAYOR CHARLES LACEY NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the 1 2012 City Commission Regular Meeting. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA \vo 04 � Z U U) Incorporated 1959 .� `oRioP CITY COMMISSION MINUTES WORKSHOP MONDAY, JANUARY 30, 2012 - 6:00 P.M. CITY HALL — COMMISSION CHAMBERS 1126 EAST STATE ROAD 434, WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA Mayor Charles Lacey Deputy Mayor Gary Bonner - Seat Three Commissioner Jean Hovey - Seat One Commissioner Rick Brown - Seat Two Commissioner Cade Resnick - Seat Four Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs - Seat Five CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 2 OF 12 CALL TO ORDER The Workshop of Monday, January 30, 2012 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor Charles Lacey at 6:01 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Mayor Charles Lacey, present Deputy Mayor Gary Bonner, present Commissioner Jean Hovey, present Commissioner Rick Brown, present Commissioner Cade Resnick, present Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present City Manager Kevin L. Smith, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, arrived at 6:06 p.m. City Clerk Andrea Lorenzo - Luaces, present A Seminole County Board of County Commissioners and the Seminole County Public Schools School Board Joint Meeting scheduled for February 7 2012 was mentioned and whether members of the Winter Springs City Commission planned to attend. Commissioner Rick Brown said he would be attending; and Mayor Lacey thought he would be attending. Other Members of the City Commission also mentioned they would possibly be in attendance. With that, Mayor Lacey noted, "Sounds like we do need to Notice it." City Clerk Andrea Lorenzo - Luaces said this would be done. Next, Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs mentioned that related to matters concerning Elementary Schools, a resident, Mr. Dan Finley had asked for a letter on the City's position, as Mr. Finley plans to go before the Seminole County Public Schools School Board tomorrow. Commissioner Krebs added that she had mentioned this to City Manager Kevin L. Smith. Commissioner Krebs also suggested that additionally, at the next City Commission Meeting, "We can bring forward a Resolution." Regarding the letter that Commissioner Krebs alluded to, Manager Smith noted that in the interest of time, he drafted a letter for review and for the Mayor's signature, and then passed a copy to each of the Commissioners and stated, "If you are in agreement, then I will ask the Mayor to sign it and we will accommodate that request." In reference to the letter that Manager Smith just distributed, Mayor Lacey commented, "My position is, on a letter like this, I could just sign it, but it gets close to touching on Policy issues, that I would want to make sure we are reflecting the entire will of the Commission before we did that; so, I would certainly appreciate your concurrence on this before I put my name to it." Commissioner Krebs complimented Manager Smith on a great effort in putting the facts together. Related to agreeing that Mayor Lacey sign the letter, Deputy Mayor Gary Bonner stated, "I concur." Mayor Lacey then inquired of the City Commission, "Is there any objection to this letter going out from the City? Does anyone want more time to look at it before they agree ?" Hearing no objections, Mayor Lacey stated, "We will act accordingly." Following up, Commissioner Krebs then asked, "Can we bring back a Resolution at our next meeting ?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 3 OF 12 City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese arrived at 6:06 p.m. Manager Smith stated, "If that would be the will of this body, we will certainly bring it back at our next meeting. Mayor, do I have a Consensus ?" No objections were noted and Mayor Lacey stated, "Yes." PUBLIC INPUT Mayor Lacey asked if the City Commission would be flexible to hearing Public Input as it comes up during this evening. There were no objections to that. Mr. Bob Frilen (and Mrs. Annabell Frilen), 1602 White Dove Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: briefly mentioned that they could speak later. Mayor Lacey gave a brief overview of tonight's Workshop and remarked, "This is a Workshop, so it is not possible for the Commission to make a decision on this topic. This is just an educational session for us to understand the issues. At some future Commission meeting, if there is a decision for the Commission to be made, it will be made at that time." Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida :: mentioned he might have some comments during the Workshop. Seminole County Commissioner John Horan, and a resident of Tuscawilla Section 12 was recognized as being present. REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. Community Development Department REQUEST: The Community Development Department requests that the City Commission hold a public workshop regarding the condition of the wall at the Tuscawilla Units 12/12A subdivision. Manager Smith spoke on the proposed format of tonight's Workshop. Mr. Steve Richart, Manager, Urban Beautification Division Services, Community Development Department introduced himself and stated, "As you know, this wall is starting to degrade quite a bit over time and some residents brought this issue before the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District last year, about mid -year, and the Advisory Board heard it and recommended that we take it to the Commission, so the Commission could hear the issue." Continuing, Mr. Richart said the wall was built in 1985 and "Originally, we believe that the Developer intended to set up a Homeowner's Association which is typical when you have common elements like a wall or landscaping or even ponds. Typically, you have a Homeowner's Association that's mandatory and they collect assessments to take care of stuff like this. Well, your subdivision didn't have that in Units 12 and 12A." Further comments followed on incomplete information, the Plat, that the builder of the wall was "Winter Springs Development Company ", that the wall was built in several sections, Deed Restrictions. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP — JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 4 OF 12 Mr. Richart added, "One thing is for sure, though to know the location of that wall exactly, to see where it's at, we're going to have to have a Survey, and we don't have a Survey of the whole wall. So we can't tell you where exactly it is. From what I can put together, it looks like part of it's in the right -of -way and part of it's in the Easement. So we just can't be sure until we do that and do a Survey and actually, some of it looks like to be on private property with no easement and no right -of -way as well." Mr. Brian Fields, P.E., City Engineer, Public Works Department reviewed basic terminology used in this discussion. Mr. Richart then showed some slides related to the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District wall that was being addressed, followed by some suggestions and possible costs and options. Further comments. Mr. Tim Jones, 1600 White Cloud Court, Winter Springs, Florida: asked for clarification on the estimated annual maintenance costs. Mr. Richart responded by saying, "The annual total cost would for the annual program would be nineteen five roughly. The annual maintenance costs would be around nine thousand [dollars] ($9,000.00). And again, this is just an estimated cost. Obviously, as with everything we do, we would have the most competitive bids. There may be some years where we have very little maintenance and how that would work — we would have a sliding assessment so we would have a legal maximum to that assessment." Furthermore, Mr. Richart added, "Once you start maintaining the wall, you're always going to need to have a maintenance program of some sort." Discussion followed on which property the wall sits on; and a possible Survey /Straw Ballot that could be sent out. Mr. John Horan (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: asked how the Easement was granted? Mr. Fields stated, "The Easement was shown on the Plat. It was dedicated for the perpetual use of the public on the Plat." Mr. Richart noted, "It's also recorded in your Deed Restrictions." Mr. Horan then inquired if the Plat dedicated all of the right -of -ways to the public? Mr. Fields stated, "Yes — what we pulled up here on the screen is the Dedication, is in the upper right here and what that shows states, is that the Plat expressly dedicates the streets and Easements shown here on to the perpetual use of the public. That was on the Plat." Tape 1 /Side B Mr. Horan asked if the wall belonged to the public and if so, why has it not been maintained? Attorney Garganese commented on Florida Statutes and pointed out that it does state, "Nothing in the Statute or in the Plat will create an obligation on the governing body to perform any construction or maintenance within such dedicated areas, except when the obligation is voluntarily assumed by the governing body, which is in this case is the City Commission. Based on the limited information that we have to date, we haven't found anything in the Record where the City Commission has assumed the responsibility for the construction and the maintenance of the wall that's located perhaps in the Easement, perhaps in the right -of -way, or perhaps in some other place." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 5 OF 12 Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: commented on possible liability issues. Attorney Garganese remarked, "If it's in the right -of -way, that's ordinarily what the City controls. The City can take certain steps to remove private improvements that have been installed in the right -of -way. And to the extent that these are even private improvements in the City's right -of -way, if they are in a state of disrepair, my general recommendation to the Commission is the Commission needs to do something about that part of the wall that's in the right -of -way; whether it's the removal of it or whatever." Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: then asked if the City had ever maintained the wall and mentioned that no one from the City had ever told him he was responsible for the wall. Attorney Garganese added, "One other document that's in the Record and I am just putting it in the Record, not for any other purpose at this stage of the discussion, but the Covenants that have been recorded for this particular project states that the Easement area of each lot and all improvements in it shall be maintained continuously by the owner of the lot, except for those improvements for which a public authority or utility company is responsible." Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: then mentioned repaired sidewalks with prompt service and the trees had been also been trimmed which he did not pay for. Mr. Fields explained, "The sidewalk is in the right -of -way. The right -of -way is not an Easement and yes, that's something we have assumed maintenance responsibility for. The sidewalk is broken, you call us, we come out. Hopefully we promptly fix it to your satisfaction." Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: asked about "The area that is within the right -of -way, the portion of the wall - does anybody know what percentage of the wall, how many lineal feet is within the right -of- way ?" Mr. Fields noted, "No. We would have to get a Survey to really get property corners and know for sure." Further comments followed. Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: then commented, "Based upon what you know right now, it would be fair to say that the majority of the wall is not within the right -of- way ?" Mr. Fields responded by saying, "I don't think we can answer that." Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: commented "How much of the wall would be within the right -of -way; if the right -of -way has eighty percent (80 %) of the wall and twenty percent (20 %) is within the Easement, or is within no particular area it seems to be that eighty percent (80 %) of the cost really should come from the public. If in fact you have a situation where you want to set a MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit), we can set up a MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit), I mean we have done it at the County quite a bit. It is difficult to set it up when you have such a small group." Mr. Horan was asked to define MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit) for the audience and explained, "Municipal Special Benefit Unit (MSBU) which is like the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District and basically what happens is you identify a particular special purpose and you assess people within that area so they can go ahead and get that special purpose." Continuing, Mr. Horan then asked why the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District did not address the wall problem and asked who would be maintaining the wall. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 6 OF 12 Mr. Richart explained, "The MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit) is very similar to the Assessment area that we have; in fact it's almost identical. The reason the Assessment area makes sense is because we already have two (2) of them that we're doing and it'd be easy - we have the skeleton to set up another area within an area. So, essentially what we'd have is this would be an area within an area with the main TLBD (Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District). We'd have Phase I, we'd have Phase II. This could maybe be Phase III, would be specifically for the ninety (90) units in there." As to who would do the maintenance, Mr. Richart explained, "Let's say it was Phase III TLBD (Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District); it would just come from the Phase III area." Discussion. Mayor Lacey recognized former Commissioner Don Gilmore and former Commissioner Michael Blake who were in the audience and thanked them for attending. Commissioner Jean Hovey asked about this being part of the Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District. Mr. Richart said, "It can." Mr. Richart then commented briefly on who should be assessed and added, "It would be if you had a benefit based Assessment for that particular ninety (90) homes that are in that area." Manager Smith added, "If that makes sense Commissioners, we don't know that definitely. We want to make sure. Could we assess all the residents of Tuscawilla, not that we should, but could we? I don't think we know that definitive answer, but we'll find out." Mr. Richart added, "We will, if we go down that road." Deputy Mayor Bonner inquired how much a Survey might cost and suggested that the City Manager and Staff get the numbers together on how much a Survey might cost. Mr. Fields suggested a Survey might cost roughly in the range of five thousand dollars ($5,000.00). Deputy Mayor Bonner added, "If my peers concur with me, I would like to ask the City Manager to pull that together for us, an estimate of that cost, an accurate cost for us." Ms. Susan Juge, 1624 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: as a resident of Unit 12, Ms. Juge mentioned her home is on the back side of Wood Duck Drive, against the woods; and Ms. Juge did not think that she gained any more benefit from the wall than anybody else in Tuscawilla who drives down Winter Springs Boulevard/Northern Way, and did not think she should have to pay any more to repair the wall. Mr. Arsenio Calle, 110 Arrrowhead Court, Winter Springs, Florida :: spoke as a resident of Tuscawilla and in a community that has a private wall and did not think that other Tuscawilla residents should have to repair other community walls. Mr. Calle also suggested that if they did not want the wall, that he thought a Contractor might be willing to take down the wall for no cost, if the Contractor could keep the bricks. Commissioner Cade Resnick asked about the preference of those in attendance, keeping the wall and being able to pay for it versus not having the wall. Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: mentioned that the back of his yard is natural and the wall behind his home is hardly visible; that many of the neighboring owners have hedges along the wall as you can see through the wall; and that he liked the wall and felt there was a benefit to having the wall. Continuing, Mr. Lee mentioned possible television coverage; that perhaps the cost for repairs could be reduced; and thought the City should sustain some "If not all of the costs ". CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 7 OF 12 Commissioner Brown mentioned a similar situation with Creek's Run fence and similar language in their Covenants. Commissioner Brown added, "I think it is pretty standard language that the residents who own the lot are responsible for maintaining the improvements through the Easement. I think the only question remains is what to do with the lots that actually run through the right -of- way." Attorney Garganese noted, "That is one aspect. Then there's the other issue and it's whether or not the City assumed any responsibility in the past for maintaining this wall." Attorney Garganese added, "So, if you dispense with that issue, then the other part that the Commission would definitely need to address is that part of the wall that's in disrepair in the right -of- way." Commissioner Brown said, "I would have to agree. I think we go do a survey and then we do a ballot and see how much support there is, and maybe do a ballot for the whole TLBD (Tuscawilla Lighting and Beautification District) too, because there is a benefit to the whole community driving up that street; the beautification of that street definitely drives property values for the whole community. No different than the streetlighting on some of the off streets; the enhanced streetlighting, the street signs, and the fountains." Discussion. Commissioner Krebs asked Attorney Garganese about the Oak Forest Wall and Attorney Garganese noted that the City acquired Easement rights. Discussion followed on differences and rights. Attorney Garganese said, "Hypothetically, if the City wanted to take on the maintenance responsibilities for the wall and assume that responsibility, and the City wanted a separate funding source, the first thing the City would do is to ensure that it had the real property interest where the wall is laid. It's either in the right -of -way or it's in perhaps the publically dedicated Easement. Let's assume that's exactly where the wall is — one or the other. Then the City could look at creating a sub Special Assessment District and then we'd have to do the legal analysis to determine which property owners receive the special benefit from the wall like we did in Oak Forest, back in 1999. Once we determine which property owners get the special benefit, then we have to make sure that costs for the repair and the perpetual maintenance costs are properly apportioned to the property owners that receive different levels of benefits. Mr. Richart mentioned that regarding the Oak Forest community, there were a couple of benefits such as aesthetic benefits to having a wall, and also helping to provide a community identity for Oak Forest residents. Additionally, for the property owners residing closest to the wall, a sound attenuation benefit also existed. Attorney Garganese also said that the type of wall currently built, differs from the solid wall of the Oak Forest community, so they would need to review this difference. Commissioner Krebs then asked how much the Oak Forest wall cost? It was suggested by Staff that the cost was possibly between nine hundred thousand dollars ($900,000.00) to one million dollars ($1,000,000,000.00), and the cost was divided by approximately 900 property owners and spread over thirty (30) years. Next, Commissioner Brown suggested we need real numbers and need a Survey done to really address this issue and possible solutions. Mayor Lacey asked the City Commission, "Is there any objection from the Commission — is there general Consensus that we can ratify at a Regular Meeting to ask the Staff to do a Survey of all the affected lots ?" Deputy Mayor Bonner responded, "I agree to that." Commissioner Krebs remarked, "I agree to that and if we do go to Special Assessment District would those costs be — rolled into that ?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP — JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 8 OF 12 Mayor Lacey then said, "That goes to my next question. Before we were to give that direction to the Staff, I would ask the Manager — do we have five thousand dollars ($5,000.00) you can find without dipping into Reserves, to spend on this unbudgeted item? Manager Smith said, "I anticipate that our ongoing savings through the diligence of Staff will come up with enough money to cover five thousand dollars ($5,000.00) by the end of the year." Mayor Lacey then referred back to Commissioner Krebs inquiry and stated, "Do we know, if we were to spend that money and then go through a Special Assessment, or MSBU (Municipal Special Benefit Unit), would we be able to recover that ?" Manager Smith responded, "It seems like we would" but he would need to find out. Attorney Garganese added, "Probably." Commissioner Hovey mentioned that we cannot go ahead until we have a Survey. Further comments followed. Mayor Lacey summarized, "I think we have Consensus, so we will ask you to do some of your work with the budget, find five thousand [dollars] ($5,000.00) and do a Survey." Mr. Jack Rutherford, 1634 Winter Springs Boulevard, Winter Springs, Florida: commented on wanting to understand that after the Survey is completed, that the City will take care of its share of the costs, before any Assessment is levied against any property owners. Mayor Lacey commented, "I think first, we have to determine what is in the right -of -way and then, what is the City' s obligation to maintain what is in the right -of- way." Mayor Lacey suggested that we would hope to know more at a later date. Mr. Ted Johnson, 1107 Pheasant Circle, Winter Springs, Florida: asked about liability if part of the wall should fall. Discussion Tape 2 /Side A Deputy Mayor Bonner stated, "As a City, we need to do something about that right, on behalf of our neighbors so this is just my opinion — our public safety is job number one as far as I am concerned! So, I think time — to me, that is the sense of urgency. We need to get the answers to these questions, so that we can move along expeditiously to address the public safety aspect of your question in my opinion. Now, looking for all the counsel and all the wishes to be known as quickly as possible as well, so that we can make the most informed decision. But to me, public safety is job one." Further comments. Mr. Ted Johnson, 1107 Pheasant Circle, Winter Springs, Florida :: inquired if another Workshop would be held to discuss the results of the Survey. Manager Smith said, "That would be my thought." Deputy Mayor Bonner said, "Yes." Mayor Lacey added, "Sounds like the dialogue is needed." There were no objections voiced from the City Commission. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 9 OF 12 As to the proposed timeline, Mr. Fields stated, "We can have the Survey on the Consent Agenda at the next Commission meeting, next available time and/or get direction tonight. I'd say less than thirty (30) days." Manager Smith added, "1 would want to make sure that we have a good Survey coming to you all and that members of the public feel like that they had an opportunity to review the Survey; so, maybe a little time to do that." Mr. John Horan, (Seminole County Commissioner), 1612 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: thought that the estimate of five thousand dollars ($5,000.00) for a Survey may be too low, but the facts do need to be known. Continuing, Mr. Horan suggested that the property owners in Unit 12 and 12A need to pay for the wall repair and maintenance in a "Disproportionate ratio" to whatever others in Tuscawilla might pay. Mr. Horan then commented on the benefits to all who travel down Winter Springs Boulevard; and the benefit should be calculated and a legal type vehicle should be created to accomplish this. Mr. Horan added, "How do you do that - you have got a great Attorney here" and referenced Attorney Garganese. Furthermore, Mr. Horan then remarked, "We also have to re -adopt our Restrictions and Covenants in Unit 12 and 12A. We have to form a Homeowner's Association to do that. They expire I think in fifteen (15) months. We're probably going to go ahead and do that. When we do that, we might be able to form an entity that could then contract with the Beautification District in some disproportionate way for the maintenance of that wall, so there are all kinds of options out there. But what really makes sense is we'll pay a certain percentage that is more than everybody else, but everybody benefits from the fact that that wall is there." Manager Smith asked Mr. Horan "What do I say to those residents of Tuscawilla that live in HOA's (Homeowner's Associations) that have walls and they're paying for their walls through the HOA (Homeowner's Association) ?" Mr. Horan responded, "Just tell them that Unit 12 is going to pay proportionately, a similar type of Assessment; that they would pay for the maintenance of their wall and calculate it out in whatever vehicle we have with the District - That's the point; is district 12 people don't have a problem with paying a certain amount for that benefit. What we're saying is don't spread it over ninety (90) houses, spread it over the entire Tuscawilla area and we'll pay a disproportionate amount, because we benefit more." Commissioner Brown asked Attorney Garganese, "For the portions of the wall that our Engineers may determine are in jeopardy of causing a public hazard, that sit in the Easement and are technically private property; I have never known the City to have the authority to go in and do anything on those, since they sit on private property; and especially when the Covenants say that they are the responsibility of the homeowner. How do we get around that ?" Attorney Garganese stated, "To get around that is to voluntarily assume the obligation to maintain the wall in the publicly dedicated Easements. Now if it's not — if it's not in the right -of -way and not in a publicly dedicated Easement, then the Survey would tell us that, then the City doesn't have any right to even go on the land, without permission of the property owner." Commissioner Resnick asked Mr. Horan's about the possible costs and stated, "What would be the difference in the disproportionate number that you are talking about ?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 10 OF 12 Mr. Horan stated, "You would have to have some kind of formula concerning what is the benefit to the entire Beautification District members by that wall, put a percentage on it, we take a certain percentage, the rest is spread over the rest of the people in the Beautification District. You would have to come up with some kind of formula to do that. But, I think people at the County can help you with how that is calculated because with the hundreds of Districts we have. Those kinds of calculations are done all the time and probably can be done by consent. Maybe the Tuscawilla Homeowner's Association could help in proposing some kind of a way to calculate that." Further comments. Commissioner Krebs sated, "I support the remark that our City Manager said." Further comments followed on the Oak Forest wall and benefits and how everyone might say, "I want my wall paid for too." Discussion. Mr. Arsenio Calle, 110 Arrrowhead Court, Winter Springs, Florida: commented on the wall and suggested that his neighbors might then ask others to help maintain the wall around his community, and said that it did not seem right to have tax dollars used to benefit one group. Different scenarios related to maintaining walls were then mentioned. Attorney Garganese noted, "It is probably more difficult to make a public purpose dedication for a wall that's been up for a number of years, versus building a new one for a certain purpose." Discussion followed on how a Survey might be helpful; and a similar fence issue between Howell Creek Reserve and Creek's Run. A resident of Unit 12, mentioned if an Homeowner's Association was formed, that he thought that any Assessments would have to be voluntary. Ms. Joyce Sundman, 991 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke as a resident of Unit 12A and that due to someone running into her wall, she and her husband personally replaced almost half of their wall and thought that any Assessment should fall more on the people whose properties back up to the wall, but to all ninety (90) property owners as they all benefit. Ms. Sundman also questioned, "If I own the wall, why couldn't I just go in there and build it back the way it was." Mr. Randy Stevenson, ASLA, AICP, Director, Community Development Department remarked, "I can't speak to this particular case, we'll check into it; but it is standard. Things that are built that are destroyed, once when they're re- built, they have to be re -built to the current Code." Mr. Bill Mitzo, 1611 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: noted that some portions of the wall are failing, and noted that at the corner of Wood Duck Drive and Winter Springs Boulevard, approximately ten (10) Elementary School children, including his grandchild wait for a bus at that corner and as kids do, they climb the wall. Mr. Mitzo mentioned his concern for their personal safety. Additionally, Mr. Mitzo mentioned that if the fence is taken down, their privacy is gone, and then if each property owner puts up their own fence, they could all be different causing an eyesore to their Glen Eagle neighbors and anyone who drives down Winter Springs Boulevard. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 11 OF 12 Mr. Jon Lee, 997 Sleeping Rock Court, Winter Springs, Florida: commented further on public safety concerns and Easements. Deputy Mayor Bonner pointed out, "Clearly the Survey is necessary if only to amend the public record that seems to be deficient." Further, Deputy Mayor Bonner noted, "The public safety matter is paramount to me, so that is why I am insistent that we move expeditiously to get the facts so that we can address the public safety matter expeditiously. The concern about the bus stop even elevates the public safety need greater. I was not aware of the bus stop matter." Mr. Bill Mitzo, 1611 Wood Duck Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: noted that his daughter and some neighbors had gone to the School Board to get the bus stop changed, "and they won't do it." Commissioner Hovey stated, "Would you see me afterwards because I will definitely call Dr. (Bill) Vogel about that." Mr. Mitzo responded, "Yes, I will." Mayor Lacey explained, "The Easement is still private property upon which just grants access to the property that has been granted." Commissioner Hovey remarked, "Even if we have to spend ten thousand dollars ($10,000.00) to figure out who owns what and where the bricks are. Ultimately it could be a minimal charge if something happens; and we can't do anything until we have that Survey, so we have to move forward." Deputy Mayor Bonner stated, "I think the next step is as conveyed by Staff is that they can have recommendation before us at the next Regular Commission Meeting, on an amount of money to conduct the Survey. At that time we will be able to Vote to spend that money and the Commission will tender its Vote as we do and then we can get the facts and then I think the by- product of those facts are to bring that back in a public Workshop setting so that everyone can benefit from that information and we can have the opportunity for additional dialogue." Manager Smith said, "If you all are of the mindset to go forward with the Survey, technically it's not necessary to bring that back as an Agenda Item, it's within my purview of authority dollar wise; so, I can move forward if that'd be your pleasure with the Survey post haste. I would then ask Brian (Fields) to maybe report back at the next Commission Meeting to set a Workshop date, once we have a better idea of the timeline for completion of the survey and putting everything together." Mayor Lacey remarked, "If we are not going to have it come back as an Agenda Item, then — I want to make absolutely sure that the Commission is agreeable to that. Is there any objection to the Manager proceeding on his own authority to sanction the - Survey ?" Commissioner Brown stated, "No." Deputy Mayor Bonner added, "No objection." No objections were voiced. Continuing, Mayor Lacey commented, "So, then for the scheduling of the following Workshop, I don't think we can set a date now because we don't know the time. But, can we get a rough idea of how long you think it is going to take..." Mr. Fields noted, "...I said thirty (30) days and five thousand dollars ($5,000.00). I hate to commit to that without knowing either of them but I think that would be a ballpark - hopefully we will beat that on both sides." Mayor Lacey remarked, "In two (2) weeks, when we meet at our Regular Meeting, why don't we set the date then, when Brian (Fields) gives us a progress report on it." Commissioner Brown asked, "Can you identify any areas that are in imminent danger, that we may need to suggest taking action on before then." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP — JANUARY 30, 2012 PAGE 12 OF 12 Mr. Fields responded, "We can. The Building Official has looked at it. I've looked at it." Continuing, Mr. Fields explained, "It's hard to say where it's in imminent risk of failure. It's in disrepair in certain areas but that's going to be really hard. You want to be conservative in that judgment. But we will take a closer look. If we see something that just needs to be — immediate action needs to be taken, we will." Furthermore, Commissioner Brown added, "I would say if a ten (10) year old climbing on it is going to knock it over, we probably should be looking at doing something about it." Attorney Garganese suggested, "If it's just posting the wall where it is a hazardous situation, not unlike unsafe buildings, where the Building Official has the authority to go out and post, at least provide public notice that there may be an issue - the City should have placards for unsafe buildings and structures. If it rises to that level, then the Building Official should exercise his discretion and post the wall." Mayor Lacey asked Manager Smith if he was clear on his direction as to how to proceed. Manager Smith stated, "We're going to move forward with a Survey. We're going to report back to this body at the next regularly scheduled Commission Meeting on a status report; and if we are able to at that point in time, we'll ask you all to set a Workshop date and we'll immediately communicate that to everyone in the audience and post it accordingly." PUBLIC INPUT No one addressed the Mayor and City Commission at this time. Mayor Lacy closed "Public Input". ADJOURNMENT Mayor Lacey adjourned the Workshop at 8:07 p.m. RES'E• ULLYSUBMITTED: • ' . " LORENZO - LUACES, MMC CITY (LERK APPROVED: MA •I C '�� ��•. NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the February 13, 2012 City Commission Regular Meeting.