HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011 08 01 City Commission Workshop MinutesCITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
CITY COMMISSION
MINUTES
WORKSHOP
MONDAV, AUGUST 1, 2011 - 6:00 P.M.
CITY HALL — COMMISSION CHAMBERS
1126 EAST STATE ROAD 434, WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
Mayor Charles Lacey
Deputy Mayor Jean Hovey - Seat One
Commissioner Rick Brown - Seat Two
Commissioner Gary Bonner - Seat Three
Commissioner Cade Resnick - Seat Four
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs - Seat Five
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 1, 2011 PAGE 2 OF 10
CALL TO ORDER
The Workshop of Monday, August 1, 2011 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor Charles Lacey
at 6:00 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434,
Winter Springs, Florida 32708).
Roll Call:
Mayor Charles Lacey, present
Deputy Mayor Jean Hovey present
Commissioner Rick Brown, present
Commissioner Gary Bonner, present
Commissioner Cade Resnick, present
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present
City Manager Kevin L. Smith, present
City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present
PUBLIC INPUT
Mr. Michael Allen, 199 McLeod's Way, Winter Springs: advised the Mayor and City Commission that he was
one of the first to move into his community because he liked the concept; and mentioned there are concerns if the
Town Center concept should change as others in his community also like the Town Center concept.
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs asked Mr. Allen, "Were you representing the community as a whole?" Mr. Allen
responded by saying, "I am the Vice President of the Board of the HOA (Homeowner's Association) — I would
say I represent them."
Mr. Paul Partyka, 292 Solaris Wharf Street, Winter Springs, Florida: provided some documents from the
planning of the original Winter Springs Town Center and mentioned that the Town Center Urban Core was
originally planned to be high density; and commented on walkability and keeping businesses viable.
REGULAR AGENDA
REGULAR
600. Community Development Department
REQUEST: Requests That The City Commission Hear A Presentation From Staff Regarding Updates And
Modifications To The Town Center Code And Suggested Design Changes To The Market Square Area And
Enter Into Discussions Regarding These Proposals.
FISCAL IMPACT: There Is No Direct Fiscal Impact Associated With This Agenda Item.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 1, 2011 PAGE 3 OF 10
COMMUNICATION EFFORTS: This Agenda Item Has Been Electronically Forwarded To The Mayor
And City Commission, City Manager, City Attorney/Staff, And All eAlert/eCitizen Recipients; And Is
Available On The City's Website, LaserFiche, And The City's Server. Additionally, Portions Of This
Agenda Item Are Typed Verbatim On The Respective Meeting Agenda Which Has Also Been
Electronically Forwarded To The Individuals Noted Above; And Which Is Also Available On The City's
Website, LaserFiche, And The City's Server; Has Been Sent To City Staff, Media/Press Representatives
Who Have Requested Agendas/Agenda Item Information, Homeowner's Associations/Representatives On
File With The City, And All Individuals Who Have Requested Such Information; And Has Been Posted
Outside City Hall; Posted Inside City Hall With Additional Copies Available For The General Public; And
Posted At Five (5)Different Locations Around The City. This Agenda Item Is Also Available To Any New
Individual Requestors. City Staff Is Always Willing To Discuss This Or Any Agenda Item With Any Interested
Individuals.
RECOMMENDATION: The Community Development Department Asks The Commission To Hear The
Discussion And Proposals Of Staff Related To The Town Center Code Update And The Design
Modifications or The Market Square Area, Participate In A Discussion Of The Proposals, And Provide
Direction Along With Any Further Refinements Or Additional Recommendations The Commission Deems
Necessary For Inclusion In Staffs Efforts To Update The Town Center Code.
Mr. Randy Stevenson, ASLA, AICP, Director, Community Development Department introduced this Agenda
Item and introduced Mr. Jason King, a Town Planner with Dover Kohl and Associates.
Mr. Bobby Howell, AICP, Senior Planner, Community Development Department reviewed some historical
references to the Winter Springs Town Center and planning elements while discussion ensued on a PowerPoint
presentation.
Mr. Jason King, AICP, Town Planner, Dover, Kohl & Partners, 1571 Sunset Drive Coral Gables, Florida:
addressed the City Commission on the Town Center Code and showed some slides of other similar projects and
stated, "We've watched the development of the Town Center very closely and we appreciate that if you're going
to talk about making changes to this Code, that you are going to take this sort of holistic look at it and that you
are following a best practices in Form -based coding in doing so. It's critical."
Discussion continued on a PowerPoint presentation and Transect plans. Mr. King noted, "When we talk about
Winter Springs Town Center scale of development, you should be able to walk on a five (5) or ten (10) minute
walk from your dense downtown and down where there is residential and then even larger residential, all in a
quick walk. And the idea here is to create a diverse community.
The area that we're going to talk about mostly tonight is the `T5' [Urban Center] area. The regulations there
create these kind of great environments like Mizner Park and CityPlace in West Palm Beach that you're probably
familiar with. All done according to a Form -based Code, all have survived as yours, to the vicissitudes of an
economy which goes up and down; all have a Form -based Code which has been modified significantly since their
first one, to be honest. The importance of those `T5' [Urban Center] areas is that density by itself can be a bad
thing and it's being fought by residents for good reasons; but density done well and designed well can both lead to
higher tax revenue."
Further discussion
Commissioner Rick Brown brought up previous issues with traffic issues, problems with closed businesses, and
demographics, and inquired, "How do we take where we are today and break that trend?"
Mr. King responded, "You're a business owner. You're invested in the Town Center so you know better than I
do, to be honest. You have to discern, what's the global economic meltdown, and what's the problems with the
Winter Springs Town Center. One set of problems you described are the circulation problems and the way the
streets were reconfigured, and the way the parking works and your access lanes."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP — AUGUST 1, 2011 PAGE 4 OF 10
Other similar communities were reviewed and discussed.
Mr. King suggested, "When you go to Baldwin Park if you haven't been, take this walk and you'll understand the
Transects, not just in an academic way but in a way that you can see. At that very corner of their main street that
you'll park on, you'll see these multi -story Mixed -Use buildings like the CVS[/pharmacy] — and with all parking,
dutifully put at the interior of the lot. As you go further, you will see live -work units. Often they're a Doctor's
office - an Attorney's office, an Architect's office; above residential.
Then you see apartments as you get further out. And then come these `T3' [Suburban] areas which are a mix, a
small home, the large homes, a lot with Accessory Dwelling Units which I know this Commission is committed
to; and then these Estate homes. That large lot, `T3' [Suburban] with less requirements on parking which it
should be a part of your Town Center; you'll see that there as well. And throughout, there are the civic buildings
and there are the community greens, like down at the water which is so successful.
So, Staff has been looking at all the examples that we've been describing and they're working now on a draft in
that direction."
Mr. Stevenson then stated, "As to Commissioner Brown's question — that we do want to hone in on that a little bit
more, because after all, we are here to address the situation with our Town Center. We want to kind of let you
know where Staff has been and where we will continue to pursue this, to fine tune it, if that is the direction of this
Commission tonight."
Discussion.
Tape 1/Side B
Mr. Stevenson then presented a proposed plan entitled `Town Center District - Draft Transect Map". Discussion.
Commissioner Cade Resnick suggested, "For me, the very first thing we need to do is look inside the Town
Center and consider what is wrong and if it means changing the Code to get everything right — and looking at this
drawing here on page -7- that was handed to us - we don't have a Town Center that looks like this."
Commissioner Gary Bonner commented, "How do we get from where we are to there? I assume there has got to
be some modification to the Code."
Mr. Stevenson explained, "We've given you some drafts of where we would take this but if this is the direction
that comes out of this Workshop, certainly Staff will begin tomorrow morning on getting those Code changes and
drafts made and getting modifications to drawings such as this with further details. But, you're absolutely correct
Commissioner. There are numerous changes that have to be made to the Code and we would be bringing those
back to you as rapidly as we could, because we want to lay the groundwork and set the framework as best we can
to ensure that we are able to persuade people to turn north, for lack of a better term, and come into the Town
Center."
With discussion, Mr. Stevenson added, "One of the things that we would intend to do if this is the direction of the
Commission is to spend some time with the - tenants, the merchants, and some of the residents over there and talk
to them about this and have them give us input on what they foresee. What are some of the merchants saying?
What are their setbacks? What would they like to see?"
Further comments.
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Additional slides were shown and Mr. King pointed out that Mr. Victor Dover had asked that the City be
reminded that, "We might update the Code. We might evolve the approach, but the core principles are still the
same." Mr. King also reminded the City Commission that, "The Code that you have now provides a solid
foundation for going forward. And a couple things besides the Code that we have to work on — State Road 434 is
still not yet a great street." Mr. King then suggested that street trees which were envisioned are still needed for
the look they have recommended.
Mr. King continued, "And I know it's been difficult to get the Department of Transportation to agree to have
those street trees in those access lanes. The good news is that since 2009, the Institute of Transportation
Engineers created this new book, `Context Sensitive Solutions for Walkable Environments' and since 2009,
expectedly, your multi -way boulevard has become legal. Technically, it's become advisable. This is a guide for
Engineers. And by following this guide, they don't incur the lawsuit; they're on safe ground." Furthermore, Mr.
King advised, "We encourage you strongly to begin that conversation again with DOT (Department of
Transportation) and to get those trees there. Those trees then would be your front door.
A couple of other things that are very important is that — streetscapes with a continuous sidewalk, with the long
continuous planting strips, to stoops, and porches within conversation distance to the sidewalk are incredibly
important. These pedestrian friendly streetscapes you find everywhere, the long continuous sidewalks, and you
find them in large part to the fact that - you're able to have continuous porches if the garage is in the back. Right.
If you stuck a large garage on the front of this house, you wouldn't have the continuous porch. You'd have an
interrupted sidewalk and you'd have interrupted street trees.
So, everywhere, from the very, very affluent communities that we work in to the starter communities that we
work in — there is a commitment to these alleys and keeping the garage off the front porch. And I know
sometimes there are concessions needed to be made and it's a different economic environment - but don't do it
lightly and don't do it often, is my recommendation. To the degree that you can use the alleys or that you can at
least recess back those garages, such that they're not part of the streetscape, in the tradition that Florida has been -
following for a long time, their traditional communities. I recommend that you do that. Don't give that away too
easily."
Discussion ensued on building on the preferred two (2) sides of the street; problems we have had with parking in
Town Center; and parking options. With further comments on a parking garage, Mr. King noted, "Parking
garages are being scrapped everywhere. What we recommend now are two (2) story parking garages." Mr. King
explained that such an option is "Inexpensive - you're doubling the parking capacity and you're essentially
building a cinderblock foundation that can support cars. So, consider that."
Further comments followed on the Town Center being a destination; parking once and then shopping around the
Town Center, and typical hot Florida weather and walking around a Town Center with purchases. Mr. King
remarked, "But realistically now, after fifteen (15) years of this, we see that it more functions as a `park once'
environment, a destination, people are driving there, and what we want them to do is to `park once' and then do
everything on foot. I think this Town Center is more that than we initially envisioned with the first plan that we
did."
Mr. King added, "I think we need to take that into consideration, more so than we have before. And not just
increasing the amount of parking, but where should this parking be; and the circulation issues. If you add that
much more parking, then we need to make sure this is moving in a convenient and logical fashion. And a Code
doesn't get into that, but re -thinking about the place, can."
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Commissioner Krebs commented on Florida weather and noted, "I don't think you can just put a label on it that
says `Park once" and then walk. But, I think we have to be realistic about it. That is not what we do in Florida, in
many instances."
Mr. King commented, "You're right. We have to think about the fact that the economy isn't overheating anymore
and buildings aren't just popping up and so while there is a lot planned, we need to think about how we can
maximize the buildings that are going to be coming in, to facilitate the walking; at the same time of thinking about
maybe people are going to use Publix and then drive over, and we have to think of a way that that could be fine."
With further comments on the Town Center buildings, Mr. King pointed out, "Every single building that came in
created a one (1) sided space, and to walk from one to the other meant you're in the hot sun and rain and it is
horribly unfortunate." The preferred mixed -use area near Christiano's [Wine Bar and Restaurant] and Tijuana
Flats was then referenced and complimented by Mr. King.
Discussion on how other Town Centers were successful was addressed next; and Mr. King noted, "A lot of it was
timing."
Mr. King then remarked, "The good news about all of this is that now that you've built an area entirely of one (1)
sided streets. Every new building that comes in is going to start building the other side of the street and it's going
to start building those places. And I think that's a very hopeful thing to recognize."
Commissioner Brown asked, "How big of an impact and what scale and type of retail and multi -use can we
honestly expect, given the proximity of the lake and the fact that we only have a one (1) sided demographic?"
Mr. King explained, "I'm not an Economist. I recommend that — it isn't very expensive — you should have an
Economist evaluate your actual potential, given the lake, given the amount of vacancy that you have. Your
Economic Study that a lot of this is based off of, is very old now. And I can't answer that question. So, put it in a
Work Plan - an Economist to evaluate what's possible."
With further discussion on Coral Gables and other areas, Mr. Stevenson mentioned that he had been advised by
the City of Winter Park that drive -to traffic was needed to support their downtown/Park Avenue.
Commissioner Bonner thought that Publix seemed to be the primary destination in our Town Center and stated,
"There has to be a way to leverage that fact in moving ahead towards a `T5' [Urban Center] goal." With further
comments, Commissioner Bonner asked, "How do we take advantage of the one (1) catalyst we have? The one
(1) business that probably isn't going anywhere and help that to drive this other development. I don't know if the
Dover Kohl [& Partners] folks have some background or experience about leveraging that, but there has to be a
way to factor that into our planning so that it happens in an appropriate phasing."
Commissioner Bonner added, "We really have to come up with a solution that that Publix is going to say, "I am
good with that'." Mr. Stevenson added that he thought that Publix as the main tenant, along with the Property
Management Company are "Going to have to be part of the conversation, just like a lot of the other tenants are.
Again we are increasing some rooftops. We'll take advantage of that but we understand again, we have to address
the parking issue. And as Jason (King) pointed out, the Gibbs Study, the original Economic Study is about ten -
twelve (10-12) years old now. One of the first things we would undertake is a re -visit of that Study and certainly,
Publix is going to play a big part."
Next, Commissioner Bonner then inquired, "What do we do to really accelerate that customer of the `T5' [Urban
Center] direction? Because those rooftops are coming. What steps could we as a municipality be taking to really
welcome those residents and really engage them in supporting the `T5' [Urban Center]?"
Discussion
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Mr. King explained, "Our rule of thumb is that with 200 new units, you can generally support a 5,000 square foot
grocery store and a 2,000 square foot cafe. The 200 new units is a built-in customer base that can support those
things."
Commissioner Bonner suggested we discuss with others about coming into the Town Center and that new
rooftops are being built. Mr. King added, "A Market Study can help you figure out what that is. I like the idea of
a conversation with those residents to find out what it is that they want. And I like the idea that you're standing
and focusing your energies on that corner that you know works."
Referencing the tough current economy, Mr. King remarked, "It seems to me that the City is going to have to take
on a policy of carrots and sticks, focusing on Tax abatements; being very careful about where the infrastructure
the City builds is, in order to facilitate specific movement patterns; and thinking a lot more about what happens
there."
With further comments on the McDonald's; that more restaurants/seating will be needed; that new rooftops are
being built; and improving the demographics; Mr. Stevenson said, "I think we need the Economic Study and the
Marketing Study, and one of the things that we're going to start doing hopefully soon, is to make more time to get
out and talk with like I said, not only the residents, but the merchants more."
Tape 2/Side A
Commissioner Brown asked about the involvement of Publix in the Town Center. Mr. Stevenson explained, "I
would agree with you and like I said, we are currently getting names and trying to ascertain the degree to which
these conditions, these mechanisms of control are in place and who to talk to at Publix to start - having that
conversation about — let's be more of a partner potentially; so, I'll keep the Commission up to speed on our efforts
then."
Regarding build -out of the Town Center, Commissioner Resnick inquired, "How do we make it an easier process
so we can develop this quickly, rather than the fifty (50) years that was were just brought up?"
Mr. Stevenson responded by saying, "Transect based Codes and the more fine -graining of this Town Center area
will help. I think certainly we have already made it a S.E.E.D. (Seminole Economic Enhancement District)
program which — gives them access to certain State and Federal monies — we're also talking about a Tax
Abatement Program."
Mayor Lacey asked the City Commission, "Does Randy (Stevenson) have Consensus to begin work tomorrow
morning on doing a Transect based Code modification?" Commissioner Resnick, Commissioner Krebs, and
Commissioner Bonner all said, "Yes." Commissioner Brown nodded in agreement. No objections were heard.
Market square was addressed next with discussion on the current design, turn lanes, parking, design challenges
and Frontage Road.
Much discussion.
In terms of parking, Mr. Stevenson spoke about a possibility of back -in angle parking; and regarding parallel
parking, Mr. Stevenson noted, "We're not going to do parallel parking."
Further questions followed on turns in and out of the Town Center; parking options; and where in central Florida
back -in parking is used.
Commissioner Krebs asked if the electrical box in the triangle area of Market Square could be fixed, as an
alternative to the back -in parking suggestion; and inquired of Mr. Stevenson, whether there were other options for
parking. Mr. Stevenson noted, "If the direction is let's work by taking the green box out, we do that; or putting
the green box in a vault, so it is not visible, we do that."
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With further comments, Mr. King remarked, "What is interesting about the back -in parking is that our
Transportation Consultants on many projects are recommending that to us and every time we announce it, it's
always greeted the same way. And I haven't seen it work myself, and so I am skeptical too."
Deputy Mayor Jean Hovey mentioned, "We have a big enough parking problem there as it is and if we switched
to back -in parking, it is even going to be worse."
Market Square was further reviewed. Commissioner Bonner then suggested, "I like Commissioner Krebs'
proposal that we get rid of the obstacle that is at that corner there, the utility structure. I see a vision where you
open that up for a right hand turn lane which allows you to stage even more vehicles — where you have got that
parallel parking, and then where your little pass -through area there is that you thought about having those traffic
barriers that were removable. My belief is based on the success we have seen on the other side of that building.
If we just turned that into a pedestrian use area, all of a sudden those businesses that have furniture right there,
would come to life."
Further discussion followed on patio dining; moving the utility fixture so the Town Center could be more visible;
and letting the fountain be enjoyed as the great amenity that it is; allowing businesses to take advantage of using
this corner; presenting this corner as the "Gateway to the Town Center" and making this "The top destination in
the Town Center".
Next, Commissioner Krebs spoke of the inviting look of patio -type umbrellas dotting the corner of the Winter
Springs Town Center and suggested we build archway entrance(s) into the Town Center, and add some banners;
which is similar to what the City of Kissimmee did.
Tape 2/Side B
Mr. Stevenson summarized some of the discussion points and noted, "I think what I am hearing and what I agree
with is the fountain would probably stay and we'd open this up and all these small hedges and things like that
would be gone. This would be more of an open space, an open plaza, such that it becomes a multi -functional
area. You have tables, you can have umbrellas, you can have classes if you want to — it truly is multi -functional
depending on whether the restaurant wants to use it, whether a gym wants to use it. That type thing — an activity
center."
With further comments on this, Mr. Stevenson added, "We have to provide a level of traffic protection which I
think... " Commissioner Krebs noted, "... I agree... " Mr. Stevenson continued, "... Can happen without that
massive wall that we have there." Commissioner Brown suggested, "Whatever you do Randy, (Stevenson), there
or anywhere else, you have to keep in mind the impact to the businesses." Commissioner Krebs agreed and said,
"Yes."
Commissioner Brown then commented on what past and current businesses have invested in the Town Center and
further mentioned, "Because nobody could park there, nobody could get to it, nobody could see it from (State
Road) 434; so, no matter what you do at that corner, you are going to repeat the same problem." Mr. Stevenson
added, "Just like we talked about earlier, these people have to be part of this conversation before we finalize
anything there, I think." Commissioner Brown added, "I wish they had been the first time."
Commissioner Resnick asked Commissioner Brown if he liked the open area for additional dining/eating?
Commissioner Brown responded by saying, "Depending how it comes in the final plan, if there is visibility - I
love the idea of having that open and available to the public. Where are people going to park to get to it?"
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Continuing, Commissioner Brown then commented on the future and noted, "What do we do for now while we
are trying to get businesses to invest back in that building? Where do they park? How do they get there? Are
they going to park and walk that five (5) minutes during the peak dining time of the afternoon which is also the
peak thunderstorm time, in the pouring rain? The answer is `No', unless they can get there somehow. So, how do
we repeat or not repeat the bankruptcies in the past. And, I don't know that addresses it unless we address
parking."
Commissioner Krebs agreed and suggested adding in some parking (including some angle parking) in the Market
Square area, currently where the triangle space is located to show people there is some parking at that location.
Discussion followed on other parking options to which Mr. Stevenson said, "We're certainly going to take all of
your comments back."
Additionally, Mr. Stevenson commented to the City Commission, "Just to reiterate, I want to make sure we have
Consensus to move forward on the Transect application to the Town Center. I think we do." Mayor Lacey stated,
"Yes." Commissioner Krebs said, "You do." Mr. Stevenson added, "We will go back to the drawing board on
this specific area and look at our comments here that we have and take those into account as we reconsider the
Market Square area; and we will be bringing that back to you for consideration at a later date. Trying to do it as
quickly as we can, Commissioners."
Commissioner Bonner noted his support and asked about a time frame as it relates to the Transects.
Mr. Stevenson explained, "Staff at this point feels pretty good about the map we gave you in terms of
classification. We might want to take another brief look at that and make sure we have included and we can
address as many concerns of the past in that Transect layout. Again, as you can see, we've also started moving
along with a draft of what the different Transects would look like and translating to the major matrices that have
been incorporated into the Codes. But, I'm not prepared tonight to give you an estimate of time Commissioner,
other than to say we will start work on it tomorrow morning and take up from where we're at, and move full
steam ahead and try to make that happen as quickly as possible, because I do know we have some people waiting
on that."
Continuing, Mr. Stevenson further elaborated, "We want to research where we're at with the Comprehensive
Plan. Okay. At this point in time, I believe it will simply remain a `Town Center' Land Use and we will tackle
most of these changes through our Code which is a Text Amendment; which means we have to advertise; we have
to take it through Staff Review; we have to take it before the Planning and Zoning Board[/Local Planning
Agency] and two (2) Public Hearings before this body, before it becomes Law." City Attorney Anthony A.
Garganese agreed with this.
Continuing, Mr. Stevenson added, "Again, we would like to initiate that process very quickly and I would say
within a matter of thirty (30) days, it could be ready to move it through Staff and keep it going and try to get that
done, in a matter of course — probably right after the beginning of the new Fiscal Year which would be
October/November time frame — is what we will shoot for."
Commissioner Bonner suggested he would appreciate regular updates be provided. Mr. Stevenson noted, "We
will put it on (Informational) item `100'."
City Manager Kevin L. Smith remarked that he agreed with Commissioner Bonner's recommendation and putting
this information on "Informational (Agenda Item) ` 100' to keep you all up to speed; and I can assure you and
guarantee you, that I will move Staff as expeditiously as humanly possible."
Commissioner Brown stated, "Does somebody want to comment about how this affects Mr. (Roy) Pugsley or can
we get some kind of guarantee that he will be met with."
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Mr. Stevenson responded by saying, "We would certainly meet with Mr. Pugsley. Just so you will know, and it's
a very small piece of property, and if I didn't say this specifically, that would be in the `T3' [Suburban], which
again, would allow Mr. Pugsley to use the benefit — that would allow the benefit of the incorporating some of the
setbacks in the Town Center."
Furthermore, Mr. Stevenson noted, "`T3' [Suburban], would do away with two (2) story requirement out there;
but, we would be looking to work with Mr. Pugsley on the architecture and the placement of that building. And I
know he is going to have to work with his Engineer to finalize that concept."
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Lacey adjourned the Workshop at 8:30 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
ZO-LUACES, MMC
APPROVED:
M R Hr#Ki.E� L
NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the August 22, 201 1 City Commission Regular Meeting.