Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007 06 11 Consent 205 Approval of May 30, 2007 Workshop Minutes CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP MAY 30, 2007 CALL TO ORDER The Workshop of Wednesday, May 30, 2007 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor John F. Bush at 5:15 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor Sally McGinnis, present Commissioner Robert S. Miller, arrived at 5: 17 p.m. Commissioner Rick Brown, present Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore, present Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, arrived at 5:21 p.m. City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, arrived at 5: 16 p.m. REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. Information Services Department Elert & Associates Will Provide Preliminary Findings To-Date Of The City's WiFi Initiative, Provide City Commission With WiFi Options Appropriate For The City And Rough Estimated Costs For Each Option. City Commissioners Will Then Have The Opportunity To Choose Two (2) Business Models For Elert & Associates To Research In-Depth And Present More Accurate Costs Of Those Two (2) Options At A Future Meeting. Ms. Joanne Dalka, Director, Information Services Department introduced this Agenda Item for discussion and noted their plan was "To have the Commission choose one (1) or two (2) of these options for further business analysis to bring back for their final Meeting in late July." Mr. Peter Gray, Technology Consultant, Elert and Associates, 140 jrd Street South, Stillwater, Minnesota: addressed the City Commission regarding this Agenda Item and said they hoped to get "Some direction from you tonight that we would be able to complete in July [2007] and then come back for the final presentation at the end of July [2007]." ~ ~ ~ c::> s:.= Q.... s:.L.. ~ :2: :---. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE 2 OF9 Furthermore, Mr. Gray noted, "We're going to come back with a cost benefit Report that will provide some more detail on that and some more narrowed down costs for you to review." Continuing, Mr. Gray commented, "We will supply a draft business case, a couple of weeks ahead of time before our presentation so people can review it. We can have input from the folks at the City and come back and make any changes or answer any questions before that final presentation of the business case." Discussion ensued on key findings taken from the Public Meetings. Further discussion ensued on information from other neighboring cities, including the City of Sanford. Mayor Bush asked, "Why would a provider pay half? 1 mean, what do they get out of it?" Mr. Gray replied, "They get recognition. 1 don't know if they just wanted to have a - reference they could put down, so that they could approach other cities." Discussion ensued on cities in Seminole County, WiFi, and Seminole County Public Schools and their use of WiFi. Mr. Gray commented that Seminole County Public Schools has "A willingness to work with the City and partner and however they can. They didn't really set down any guidelines about what actually they were going to offer, but if there was a light pole or some fiber that you guys could collaborate on; they would be willing to do that." Further discussion. Discussion ensued on Seminole County Public Schools position on WiFi. Mr. Dave Kaun, Elert and Associates, Chief Technology Officer, 140 3rd Street South, Stillwater, Minnesota: addressed the City Commission on this Agenda Item and commented, "You've done a wonderful job throughout the City of not having many power poles, or light poles. So, there's nothing vertically standing throughout the community. So, wireless of course, doesn't work well in the ground; it needs to be supported and without places to support it and mount it, it makes it very difficult." Discussion. Mr. Kaun remarked, "I tried to find locations that would cover about a three (3) mile radius because that's typically a good radius to work from when it comes to wireless internet services. And, we discovered two (2) towers - one (1) tower; and one (1) location for a tower that could potentially do that. And that gave us at least a good feeling that 1 think it's doable. And the two (2) locations - one (1) is a School District bus garage tower. c=:a ~ ~ c:;:) P-: PI Pc ~ ;---:> CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE30F9 And again, Pete (Gray) indicted, there's a willingness to work with you on that and that certainly raised my - hopes in finding a spot. And the other was your Wastewater Treatment Facility; your Reclamation Facility. That location is so tree covered and so hidden from view, that to put a tower up that would be rising just above the tree level, would be an ideal location. From those two (2) spots, you've got about a three (3) mile coverage envelope that would cover the entire City." Further discussion. Mayor Bush asked, "How tall are the towers?" Mr. Kaun replied, "I would say you'd have to be about twenty percent (20%) above tree line. So, your trees are typically captive around - sixty (60) to seventy feet (70')." Mr. Kaun continued, "So, I'm saying probably around a hundred (100) - radius. I'm saying probably around a hundred (100); someplace between a hundred (100) and a hundred and twenty feet (120')." Discussion continued with Mr. Kaun saying, "Most cell phone structures have four (4) and five (5) carriers on a site, so you'd be only doing yourself, ifthat's what you wanted to build. Now if you want to make a money maker out of that tower, that's a different story. Now, you put up a tower that can handle five (5) carriers." Commissioner Robert S. Miller asked, "And the artt:ennas that you hang on the - structure would be the same type of antennas that we see now for the cell phones." Mr. Kaun replied, "Smaller." Commissioner Miller asked, "Much smaller?" Mr. Kaun replied, "No, not terribly smaller." City Manager Ronald W. McLemore stated, "Clearwire wants to come in and attach to the existing towers. If they attach to our towers, it costs them money. We don't have to let them do it." Mr. Kaun remarked, "No." Manager McLemore continued, "Do we want to let them on our towers. Now, what I need to understand and the Commission too; really what is it that they're going to do if we let them on our towers? What are they going to provide? And my understanding is that they want a subscription service for homes and business. Can you spend a minute or two (2) on what that service would be like? You can't just ride around the City and use their service. You've got to have a paid up - service with them to do that." Mr. Kaun replied, "They're certainly in it to make money. I mean, or else they wouldn't be doing this. And today they, Clearwire is looking at, the same as Sprint. Sprint and Clearwire together own most of the 2.5 gigahurtz spectrum in the country. They want to use a technology called WiMax, different from WiFi. WiMax is not yet a standard. It is close. It is very close to being a standard. But it is not yet a standard. And as such, the manufacturers aren't rolling product equipment out. ~=a ~ ~ c:::> ~ ~ Ii"-... "~G ~ ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE 4 OF 9 But just this last week, the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) did approve of a WiMax card that you could put into a PC (personal computer) and be able to get on WiMax services of the 2.5 gigs(ahurtz) spectrum that both Sprint and WiMax is looking at using. So, how would they do it? They would sell that service. And it would be a monthly subscription fee for that - and for you, you'd be paid like your other carriers pay you, to be on that tower site." Mr. Kaun continued, "But where I see this is a possible solution and - we certainly haven't talked to them about this. But, you need to foster people's interest in internet who haven't used the internet. And that's the whole digital divide issue. One way to do that is creating hotspots. And where somebody who has a laptop, has internet access via WiFi, which is a standard, can access a hotspot. The problem is the hotspot needs to get internet from somewhere to be able to become a hotspot. Well, that's one way to do it; would be potentially working throughClearwire, where some sort of trade off arrangements where you create hotspots that are getting services from a company like Clearwire. And then you create this - spot where you share that service among multiple people, instead of just one; like others might do." Discussion continued. Mr. Kaun remarked, "Clearwire wants to do it for everyone and charge for it. What I'm saying, is in the arrangement that you work out with them or you contract arrange with them is to - potentially provide hotspots in certain locations in the City for free." Manager McLemore asked, "Paid for by?" Mr. Kaun replied, "Well, you install them and maintain potentially, or they do. But in return for, instead of taking money from them to have access to the tower space - in other words, you're not making any money, but you're providing services to your community." Commissioner Rick Brown mentioned, "So, we let them charge the population at whole; in trade off, they give us hotspots for free for certain areas." Further discussion. Mr. Kaun pointed out, "Hotspots can be created wherever you want to create them; it's all a matter of the negotiations." Mr. Kaun continued, "If your vendors don't want to play with you on this thing and work out a deal, and you're going to do it yourself, you can do the same thing. ~ ~:] ;;-- ~ ~ ~--.a ~-. !--~ G ~ it- ~ ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE50F9 The problem is, is that you as a community cannot buy frequencies like they have acquired through auction. They're paid a lot of money for that bandwidth. You have to work in the unlicensed spectrum. The unlicensed spectrum does not have as much power; does not have the degree - that you can have for it. So, the way you distribute it and how you get it in the homes is different. You're not going to get a card that goes in your PC (personal computer). You're going to have to have an outside antenna on the house that then brings it to your PC (personal computer) or goes to your own hotspot." Discussion. Manager McLemore asked, "If we're negotiating something with - this Clearwire where we would have some access point, or hotspots, why wouldn't we negotiate that and then charge the users, like, split the cost again to a point we were actually receiving some revenue for that, but at a far less cost than, like you're doing, for the user." Mr. Kaun replied, "Again, that's another model that could work. I don't want to say it can't. They become a carrier's carrier in that case - the Public Service Commission calls it - when you don't deliver it to the subscriber, you're a carrier's carrier, in their books when it comes to regulations. And they would become a carrier's carrier delivering internet to you." Manager McLemore added, "And hotspots." Mr. Kaun then stated, "Yes - to hotspots. . ." Manager McLemore said, "... And then everywhere else throughout the City..." Mr. Kaun agreed and noted, "...That's correct..." Manager McLemore commented, "... And then we would - they would like wholesale it to us and we would retail to the user, but it would be at a far less cost." Mr. Kaun then stated, "Absolutely, another model you could consider." Mr. Kaun remarked, "SB1322 says you have to recover your costs and you can't sell below the going rate so that you under cut the other commercial customers that - are trying to make a living. Now the question is, is that other customer truly a customer of theirs? Is that person who needs a lower rate, who's accepting of 250 kilobits versus 10 megabits of service, a customer of theirs? The answer is I would say probably, 'No'." Mr. Kaun continued, "They'd be a customer of yours, but not oftheirs." Further discussion. Manager McLemore commented, "What bothers me about this whole thing is it's so dynamic and so changing right now. For a municipality which generally wants to take a conservative path on everything - it's a huge risk factor for us to get into this business." Mr. Kaun replied, "And that's why I think what you want to do is attract somebody else to want to do it and try to work out a partnership first." Much discussion. ~~ I:,T=1 ;:;;... .~ ~ r::a-.. ~ ~ :;2: ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE60F9 Commissioner Miller remarked, "I think around this particular area, there's so much construction that is going to come out of the ground in the two (2) or three (3) years, that if those folks can be provided with wireless service on a beneficial basis; I think it is a draw that it may be worthwhile for us to consider on the same basis that Sanford did, it is an economic draw." Mr. Kaun said, "We're going to build some of those economic models for you and show you this scheme of things. I guess what we needed from you tonight, as much as anything, is to tell us where - do you want us to concentrate our energy on building this model? Because - as I said earlier, to deliver it to all the residential customers, economically hasn't worked very well anywhere to do this. And, so our feeling, and I'll just tell you our feeling, is that we should look at Town Center and other designated points that you might tell us - and we'll just give you a cost per point. And you can use that as a multiplier than to figure out the other places you might want to do that." Further discussion. Manager McLemore remarked, "And along those same lines I think we have to look at 417 and that corridor out there." Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs added, "And I was going to say, further down on down by the office area down on 417, might be another area as well." Mr. Kaun commented, "If we were in the model to look at, as I said, those two (2) sites that I mentioned earlier at the beginning of the conversation; those (2) master site locations. Now, I realize that you have the tower here in the middle, but the tower in the middle doesn't reach the full edges of your City at three (3) miles." Manager McLemore answered, "We'll talk about that." Mr. Kaun continued, "Let's do that Ron (McLemore), please. " Continuing, Mr. Kaun suggested, "If we can create a model where we could get that master site or sites, to give you the coverage, all of things that all of you have talked about here are possible to build on that once you have created that tower. That tower site, not counting the tower, just the electronic equipment and antennas, is around between a forty (40) and fifty thousand dollars ($50,000.00) expenditure, for the antennas and electronics to go at a site. And if you need only two (2) of them or maybe Ron (McLemore), if you've got another spot where there's one (1); I mean, that's the kind of expenditure that you're looking at to get into this game. Then from there on, it's a matter of the individual subscribers who buy service from you; you supply the radial and go from there." Discussion. ~~ ~ ~ .~.::::> ~ o II ~ ..-cc: ~ ;:= ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE70F9 Manager McLemore said, "And as I understand it from talking with the other representatives, that we also need to think very strongly about optimizing the best we have in fiber and that's something you need to talk about also." Mr. Kaun noted, "You need to generate the demand." Further discussion. Manager McLemore remarked, "I'll show you where the other probable tower locations are going to be..." Mr. Kaun said, "...Okay." Manager McLemore continued, "And I think it satisfies the problem and it can be on our sites." Mr. Kaun stated, "Good. That's what you want it to be." Discussion. Tape I/Side B Mr. Gray said, "The cost shown for Town Center is more for the open space environment outside and around the buildings. These would be up front costs. The other variable that's not included with these figures would be the cost for any extra towers. Those are not included in these figures." Manager McLemore asked, "Is this initial outlay we're talking about?" Mr. Gray answered, "Yes." Manager McLemore asked, "Not operating costs." Mr. Gray replied "No. We have no operating cost." Continuing, Mr. Gray explained, "At this point, it's our recommendation that as far as a City with how much infrastructure you'd have to put in to do a full city mesh, even without looking at the business plan, we really don't see that as being economically feasible at - this point. That's why we're talking about the hotspots design. And you'd have a design where you can grow and expand off of it." Mayor Bush asked, "On the hotspot idea, let's take for instance, schools. If the schools could become a hotspot and maybe - the School Board might participate in some of the upfront costs. Or would this Clearwire just do it; be able to sell it? I mean, where does Clearwire come in on this? So, if the City - if your DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) goes out, who are they going to call? Are they going to call the City? Or are they going to call Clearwire?" Mr. Gray added, "If it's Clearwire, or whoever, with that model, the hotspot we're still considering to be free access at that point." Mr. Kaun explained, "A hotspot in a building only covers about a fifty foot (50') radius, fifty (50) to seventy-five (75') foot. Outside, it is around 250 to 300' in clear open areas." Discussion. ~:~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE80F9 Mr. Kaun remarked, "The schools definitely typically filter the internet as to what the students are able to, to get to the sites they're able to get to. And normally, you can't do that if you operate a public internet system; you can't filter it. It would be against federal law to do that." Manager McLemore commented, "That's an important point." Further discussion. Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore asked, "WiFi uses an entirely different or is it a much higher frequency say then cell service does?" Mr. Kaun replied, "Actually pretty close. It's 2.4 gigahurtz where cell phone service is 1.9 [1900] and 800. They operate both bands. " Discussion continued. Commissioner Brown asked, "I know we can't filter the line - the internet line that is traveling across the air waves, but once it hits the school and hits their antenna and it is brought inside through the - wire, the school can - put a gateway in with the proper filtering and equipment on it..." Mr. Kaun answered, "...Absolutely." Mr. Kaun added, "Very definitely. Inside of a facility, you have the right to do any filtering you want to filter. But you as a provider can't do that." Further discussion. Mr. Gray commented, "If you do go up to RFP (Request for Proposal) and we know that's there's an emerging technically like right around the corner, typically these devices have radios that you can change out. So, we would at least write that into the RFP (Request for Proposal) that the system needs to be upgradeable for that next technology." Mr. Kaun added, "The technology that's really interesting out there is called SDR (Software Defined Radio) and that's the radios you buy today - these high-end radios are all defined by a software download and they change them on a regular basis." Discussion. Manager McLemore remarked, "Relating to that, I think it's important when you're developing a business model, that you have to build in that financial capacity into your rate base.. ." Mr. Kaun added, "... And we will..." Manager McLemore continued, "...In order to be able to be continuously be upgrading us, and if you're not willing to do that, you don't need to be in this business." Mr. Kaun commented, "That is correct." Mayor Bush said, "I think what I have heard is that going City wide is kind of out of the question based upon the way the City exists..." Mr. Gray remarked, "... Unless it goes fully with a private vendor." Mayor Bush continued, "But the hotspot thing is - something maybe worth pursuing." Manager McLemore commented, "Yes, I think that's what we've heard. And - maybe a financial way to do that, that's workable. Only one thing is still you haven't addressed the issue of optimizing the fiber investment we have. r d like to hear a few words on that." ~ ~ ~ C':) ~ PI ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE90F9 Mr. Gray summarized the final points of the presentation and explained, "In any new construction you consider, you may want to look at not necessarily putting in fiber in there, but at least putting a pathway in there so that at some later point you can easily feed fiber into these locations." Further discussion. Mr. Gray suggested, "We see that that should be your ideal goal is to have a complement of fiber and wireless through the City." Mayor Bush asked what was next, to which Manager McLemore said, "They're going to develop the business models and come back with the next level of Report." Mr. Gray added, "And that's in July." ADJOURNMENT Mayor Bush adjourned the Workshop at approximately 6:15 p.m. RESPECTFULLYSUBAfITTED: DANIELLE HARKER, ASSISTANT TO THE CITY CLERK AND ANDREA LORENZO-LUACES, CMC CITY CLERK APPROVED: JOHN F. BUSH MAYOR NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the , 2007 Regular City Commission Meeting. ~ ~ ~- C::::> ~ r-""4 ~G :z: ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP MAY 30, 2007 CALL TO ORDER The Workshop of Wednesday, May 30, 2007 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor John F. Bush at 5:15 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor Sally McGinnis, present Commissioner Robert S. Miller, arrived at 5:17 p.m. Commissioner Rick Brown, present Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore, present Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, arrived at 5:21 p.m. City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, arrived at 5: 16 p.m. REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. Information Services Department Elert & Associates Will Provide Preliminary Findings To-Date Of The City's WiFi Initiative, Provide City Commission With WiFi Options Appropriate For The City And Rough Estimated Costs For Each Option. City Commissioners Will Then Have The Opportunity To Choose Two (2) Business Models For Elert & Associates To Research In-Depth And Present More Accurate Costs Of Those Two (2) Options At A Future Meeting. Ms. Joanne Dalka, Director, Information Services Department introduced this Agenda Item for discussion and noted their plan was "To have the Commission choose one (1) or two (2) of these options for further business analysis to bring back for their final Meeting in late July." Mr. Peter Gray, Technology Consultant, Elert and Associates, 140 3rd Street South, Stillwater, Minnesota: addressed the City Commission regarding this Agenda Item and said they hoped to get "Some direction from you tonight that we would be able to complete in July [2007] and then come back for the final presentation at the end of July [2007]." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE20F9 Furthermore, Mr. Gray noted, "We're going to come back with a cost benefit Report that will provide some more detail on that and some more narrowed down costs for you to review." Continuing, Mr. Gray commented, "We will supply a draft business case, a couple of weeks ahead of time before our presentation so people can review it. We can have input from the folks at the City and come back and make any changes or answer any questions before that final presentation of the business case." Discussion ensued on key findings taken from the Public Meetings. Further discussion ensued on information from other neighboring cities, including the City of Sanford. Mayor Bush asked, "Why would a provider pay half? I mean, what do they get out of it?" Mr. Gray replied, "They get recognition. I don't know if they just wanted to have a - reference they could put down, so that they could approach other cities." Discussion ensued on cities in Seminole County, WiFi, and Seminole County Public Schools and their use of WiFi. Mr. Gray commented that Seminole County Public Schools has "A willingness to work with the City and partner and however they can. They didn't really set down any guidelines about what actually they were going to offer, but if there was a light pole or some fiber that you guys could collaborate on; they would be willing to do that." Further discussion. Discussion ensued on Seminole County Public Schools position on WiFi. Mr. Dave Kaun, Elert and Associates, Chief Technology Officer, 140 jrd Street South, Stillwater, Minnesota: addressed the City Commission on this Agenda Item and commented, "You've done a wonderful job throughout the City of not having many power poles, or light poles. So, there's nothing vertically standing throughout the community. So, wireless of course, doesn't work well in the ground; it needs to be supported and without places to support it and mount it, it makes it very difficult." Discussion. Mr. Kaun remarked, "I tried to find locations that would cover about a three (3) mile radius because that's typically a good radius to work from when it comes to wireless internet services. And, we discovered two (2) towers - one (1) tower; and one (1) location for a tower that could potentially do that. And that gave us at least a good feeling that I think it's doable. And the two (2) locations - one (1) is a School District bus garage tower. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE30F9 And again, Pete (Gray) indicted, there's a willingness to work with you on that and that certainly raised my - hopes in finding a spot. And the other was your Wastewater Treatment Facility; your Reclamation Facility. That location is so tree covered and so hidden from view, that to put a tower up that would be rising just above the tree level, would be an ideal location. From those two (2) spots, you've got about a three (3) mile coverage envelope that would cover the entire City." Further discussion. Mayor Bush asked, "How tall are the towers?" Mr. Kaun replied, "I would say you'd have to be about twenty percent (20%) above tree line. So, your trees are typically captive around - sixty (60) to seventy feet (70')." Mr. Kaun continued, "So, I'm saying probably around a hundred (l00) - radius. I'm saying probably around a hundred (100); someplace between a hundred (100) and a hundred and twenty feet (120')." Discussion continued with Mr. Kaun saying, "Most cell phone structures have four (4) and five (5) carriers on a site, so you'd be only doing yourself, if that's what you wanted to build. Now if you want to make a money maker out of that tower, that's a different story. Now, you put up a tower that can handle five (5) carriers." Commissioner Robert S. Miller asked, "And the antennas that you hang on the - structure would be the same type of antennas that we see now for the cell phones." Mr. Kaun replied, "Smaller." Commissioner Miller asked, "Much smaller?" Mr. Kaun replied, "No, not terribly smaller." City Manager Ronald W. McLemore stated, "Clearwire wants to come in and attach to the existing towers. If they attach to our towers, it costs them money. We don't have to let them do it." Mr. Kaun remarked, "No." Manager McLemore continued, "Do we want to let them on our towers. Now, what I need to understand and the Commission too; really what is it that they're going to do if we let them on our towers? What are they going to provide? And my understanding is that they want a subscription service for homes and business. Can you spend a minute or two (2) on what that service would be like? You can't just ride around the City and use their service. You've got to have a paid up - service with them to do that." Mr. Kaun replied, "They're certainly in it to make money. I mean, or else they wouldn't be doing this. And today they, Clearwire is looking at, the same as Sprint. Sprint and Clearwire together own most of the 2.5 gigahurtz spectrum in the country. They want to use a technology called WiMax, different from WiFi. WiMax is not yet a standard. It is close. It is very close to being a standard. But it is not yet a standard. And as such, the manufacturers aren't rolling product equipment out. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE40F9 But just this last week, the FCC (Federal Communications Commission) did approve of a WiMax card that you could put into a PC (personal computer) and be able to get on WiMax services of the 2.5 gigs(ahurtz) spectrum that both Sprint and WiMax is looking at using. So, how would they do it? They would sell that service. And it would be a monthly subscription fee for that - and for you, you'd be paid like your other carriers pay you, to be on that tower site." Mr. Kaun continued, "But where I see this is a possible solution and - we certainly haven't talked to them about this. But, you need to foster people's interest in internet who haven't used the internet. And that's the whole digital divide issue. One way to do that is creating hotspots. And where somebody who has a laptop, has internet access via WiFi, which is a standard, can access a hotspot. The problem is the hotspot needs to get internet from somewhere to be able to become a hotspot. Well, that's one way to do it; would be potentially working through Clearwire, where some sort of trade off arrangements where you create hotspots that are getting services from a company like Clearwire. And then you create this - spot where you share that service among multiple people, instead of just one; like others might do." Discussion continued. Mr. Kaun remarked, "Clearwire wants to do it for everyone and charge for it. What I'm saying, is in the arrangement that you work out with them or you contract arrange with them is to - potentially provide hotspots in certain locations in the City for free." Manager McLemore asked, "Paid for by?" Mr. Kaun replied, "Well, you install them and maintain potentially, or they do. But in return for, instead of taking money from them to have access to the tower space - in other words, you're not making any money, but you're providing services to your community." Commissioner Rick Brown mentioned, "So, we let them charge the population at whole; in trade off, they give us hotspots for free for certain areas." Further discussion. Mr. Kaun pointed out, "Hotspots can be created wherever you want to create them; it's all a matter of the negotiations." Mr. Kaun continued, "If your vendors don't want to play with you on this thing and work out a deal, and you're going to do it yourself, you can do the same thing. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE50F9 The problem is, is that you as a community cannot buy frequencies like they have acquired through auction. They're paid a lot of money for that bandwidth. You have to work in the unlicensed spectrum. The unlicensed spectrum does not have as much power; does not have the degree - that you can have for it. So, the way you distribute it and how you get it in the homes is different. You're not going to get a card that goes in your PC (personal computer). You're going to have to have an outside antenna on the house that then brings it to your PC (personal computer) or goes to your own hotspot." Discussion. Manager McLemore asked, "If we're negotiating something with - this Clearwire where we would have some access point, or hotspots, why wouldn't we negotiate that and then charge the users, like, split the cost again to a point we were actually receiving some revenue for that, but at a far less cost than, like you're doing, for the user." Mr. Kaun replied, "Again, that's another model that could work. I don't want to say it can't. They become a carrier's carrier in that case - the Public Service Commission calls it - when you don't deliver it to the subscriber, you're a carrier's carrier, in their books when it comes to regulations. And they would become a carrier's carrier delivering internet to you." Manager McLemore added, "And hotspots." Mr. Kaun then stated, "Yes - to hotspots..." Manager McLemore said, ".. . And then everywhere else throughout the City..." Mr. Kaun agreed and noted, "... That's correct..." Manager McLemore commented, ".. . And then we would - they would like wholesale it to us and we would retail to the user, but it would be at a far less cost." Mr. Kaun then stated, "Absolutely, another model you could consider." Mr. Kaun remarked, "SB1322 says you have to recover your costs and you can't sell below the going rate so that you under cut the other commercial customers that - are trying to make a living. Now the question is, is that other customer truly a customer of theirs? Is that person who needs a lower rate, who's accepting of 250 kilobits versus 10 megabits of service, a customer of theirs? The answer is I would say probably, 'No'." Mr. Kaun continued, "They'd be a customer of yours, but not of theirs." Further discussion. Manager McLemore commented, "What bothers me about this whole thing is it's so dynamic and so changing right now. For a municipality which generally wants to take a conservative path on everything - it's a huge risk factor for us to get into this business." Mr. Kaun replied, "And that's why I think what you want to do is attract somebody else to want to do it and try to work out a partnership first." Much discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE 6 OF 9 Commissioner Miller remarked, "I think around this particular area, there's so much construction that is going to come out of the ground in the two (2) or three (3) years, that if those folks can be provided with wireless service on a beneficial basis; I think it is a draw that it may be worthwhile for us to consider on the same basis that Sanford did, it is an economic draw." Mr. Kaun said, "We're going to build some of those economic models for you and show you this scheme of things. I guess what we needed from you tonight, as much as anything, is to tell us where - do you want us to concentrate our energy on building this model? Because - as I said earlier, to deliver it to all the residential customers, economically hasn't worked very well anywhere to do this. And, so our feeling, and I'll just tell you our feeling, is that we should look at Town Center and other designated points that you might tell us - and we'll just give you a cost per point. And you can use that as a multiplier than to figure out the other places you might want to do that." Further discussion. Manager McLemore remarked, "And along those same lines I think we have to look at 417 and that corridor out there." Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs added, "And I was going to say, further down on down by the office area down on 417, might be another area as well." Mr. Kaun commented, "If we were in the model to look at, as I said, those two (2) sites that I mentioned earlier at the beginning of the conversation; those (2) master site locations. Now, I realize that you have the tower here in the middle, but the tower in the middle doesn't reach the full edges of your City at three (3) miles." Manager McLemore answered, "We'll talk about that." Mr. Kaun continued, "Let's do that Ron (McLemore), please." Continuing, Mr. Kaun suggested, "If we can create a model where we could get that master site or sites, to give you the coverage, all of things that all of you have talked about here are possible to build on that once you have created that tower. That tower site, not counting the tower, just the electronic equipment and antennas, is around between a forty (40) and fifty thousand dollars ($50,000.00) expenditure, for the antennas and electronics to go at a site. And if you need only two (2) of them or maybe Ron (McLemore), if you've got another spot where there's one (1); I mean, that's the kind of expenditure that you're looking at to get into this game. Then from there on, it's a matter of the individual subscribers who buy service from you; you supply the radial and go from there." Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE70F9 Manager McLemore said, "And as I understand it from talking with the other representatives, that we also need to think very strongly about optimizing the best we have in fiber and that's something you need to talk about also." Mr. Kaun noted, "You need to generate the demand." Further discussion. Manager McLemore remarked, "I'll show you where the other probable tower locations are going to be..." Mr. Kaun said, "...Okay." Manager McLemore continued, "And I think it satisfies the problem and it can be on our sites." Mr. Kaun stated, "Good. That's what you want it to be." Discussion. Tape I/Side B Mr. Gray said, "The cost shown for Town Center is more for the open space environment outside and around the buildings. These would be up front costs. The other variable that's not included with these figures would be the cost for any extra towers. Those are not included in these figures." Manager McLemore asked, "Is this initial outlay we're talking about?" Mr. Gray answered, "Yes." Manager McLemore asked, "Not operating costs." Mr. Gray replied "No. We have no operating cost." Continuing, Mr. Gray explained, "At this point, it's our recommendation that as far as a City with how much infrastructure you'd have to put in to do a full city mesh, even without looking at the business plan, we really don't see that as being economically feasible at - this point. That's why we're talking about the hotspots design. And you'd have a design where you can grow and expand off of it." Mayor Bush asked, "On the hotspot idea, let's take for instance, schools. If the schools could become a hotspot and maybe - the School Board might participate in some of the upfront costs. Or would this Clearwire just do it; be able to sell it? I mean, where does Clearwire come in on this? So, if the City - if your DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) goes out, who are they going to call? Are they going to call the City? Or are they going to call Clearwire?" Mr. Gray added, "If it's Clearwire, or whoever, with that model, the hotspot we're still considering to be free access at that point." Mr. Kaun explained, "A hotspot in a building only covers about a fifty foot (50') radius, fifty (50) to seventy-five (75') foot. Outside, it is around 250 to 300' in clear open areas." Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE80F9 Mr. Kaun remarked, "The schools definitely typically filter the internet as to what the students are able to, to get to the sites they're able to get to. And normally, you can't do that if you operate a public internet system; you can't filter it. It would be against federal law to do that." Manager McLemore commented, "That's an important point." Further discussion. Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore asked, "WiFi uses an entirely different or is it a much higher frequency say then cell service does?" Mr. Kaun replied, "Actually pretty close. It's 2.4 gigahurtz where cell phone service is 1.9 [1900] and 800. They operate both bands." Discussion continued. Commissioner Brown asked, "I know we can't filter the line - the internet line that is traveling across the air waves, but once it hits the school and hits their antenna and it is brought inside through the - wire, the school can - put a gateway in with the proper filtering and equipment on it..." Mr. Kaun answered, ". ..Absolutely." Mr. Kaun added, "Very definitely. Inside of a facility, you have the right to do any filtering you want to filter. But you as a provider can't do that." Further discussion. Mr. Gray commented, "If you do go up to RFP (Request for Proposal) and we know that's there's an emerging technically like right around the comer, typically these devices have radios that you can change out. So, we would at least write that into the RFP (Request for Proposal) that the system needs to be upgrade able for that next technology." Mr. Kaun added, "The technology that's really interesting out there is called SDR (Software Defined Radio) and that's the radios you buy today - these high-end radios are all defined by a software download and they change them on a regular basis." Discussion. Manager McLemore remarked, "Relating to that, I think it's important when you're developing a business model, that you have to build in that financial capacity into your rate base. . ." Mr. Kaun added, "... And we will..." Manager McLemore continued, "...In order to be able to be continuously be upgrading us, and if you're not willing to do that, you don't need to be in this business." Mr. Kaun commented, "That is correct." Mayor Bush said, "I think what I have heard is that going City wide is kind of out of the question based upon the way the City exists..." Mr. Gray remarked, "... Unless it goes fully with a private vendor." Mayor Bush continued, "But the hotspot thing is - something maybe worth pursuing." Manager McLemore commented, "Yes, I think that's what we've heard. And - maybe a financial way to do that, that's workable. Only one thing is still you haven't addressed the issue of optimizing the fiber investment we have. I'd like to hear a few words on that." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - MAY 30, 2007 PAGE 9 OF 9 Mr. Gray summarized the final points of the presentation and explained, "In any new construction you consider, you may want to look at not necessarily putting in fiber in there, but at least putting a pathway in there so that at some later point you can easily feed fiber into these locations." Further discussion. Mr. Gray suggested, "We see that that should be your ideal goal is to have a complement of fiber and wireless through the City." Mayor Bush asked what was next, to which Manager McLemore said, "They're going to develop the business models and come back with the next level of Report." Mr. Gray added, "And that's in July." ADJOURNMENT Mayor Bush adjourned the Workshop at approximately 6:15 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: DANIELLE HARKER, ASSISTANT TO THE CITY CLERK AND REA LORENZO-LUACES, CMC CITY CLERK APPROVED: ~;~ MA YOR NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the June I I, 2007 Regular City Commission Meeting.