HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 04 02 Regular 600 Starlight Baptist Church Final Engineering/Site Plans
PLANNING & ZONING BOARD
April 2. 2008
Meeting
Consent
Information
Public Hearing
Regular X
ITEM 600
MGR.
/Dept.
REQUEST:
The Community Development Department requests the Planning and Zoning Board consider the
final engineering/site plan for the Starlight Baptist Church expansion, located at the northwest
corner of Hayes Road and East Bahama Road.
PURPOSE:
To review the Final Engineering/Site Plan and make a recommendation to the City Commission
regarding the development of the 4.28 acre site with a new larger sanctuary, retaining the existing
structures as accessory buildings, adding parking, and bringing the site generally into compliance
with applicable codes to the extent reasonably possible.
LAND USE, ZONING DESIGNATION, ETC.:
Future Land Use Designation: Public/Semi-Public
Zoning: R-1AA
Conditional Use: Approved w/ conditions on July 10, 2006
Variance: Approved July 10, 2006, to allow grassed overflow parking
Development Agreement: Pending
APPLICABLE LAW:
Comprehensive Plan
Chapter 5 (Code), Tree Protection and Preservation.
Chapter 9 (Code). Land Development.
Chapter 20 (Code). Zoning.
Draft Development Agreement
CONSIDERA TIONS:
OVERVIEW: The upland site is largely developed and has been used as a church for years. It
abuts paved Hayes Road to the east and unpaved Bahama Road to the south. It abuts other R 1-
AA properties to the north, east, and west; a portion of the Mount Greenwood [residential] PUD
April 2, 2008
Regular Item 600
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to the northwest; large stormwater ponds to the west; and RC-I property (with a power line) to
the south.
The plan is to construct a new 30,167 SF building (with a 783 seat sanctuary, classrooms, and
offices) and provide additional parking for the expanded facility and generally bring the site into
conformance with Code. The existing structures are proposed to remain, with the covered
basketball court eventually being enclosed. A development agreement (DA) will accompany the
final engineering/site plan to Commission to address limiting future expansion, hours of
operation, scheduling a sidewalk along E. Bahama Road (require a sidewalk when the roadway is
paved), steeple height, positive light spillage onto Hayes Road at the site ingress/egress, parking
setbacks, screening the bus parking, overnight accommodation for visiting pastors and/or visiting
singing groups. Other pertinent issues could also be included in the DA.
PARKING: The site is planned with a total of 233 parking spaces: 22 of which are paved
(includes 7 handicap accessible spaces) and 201 of which are stabilized grass parking. A
variance to allow stabilized grass parking was approved by the City Commission on July 10,
2006. The plan also provides spaces for the church's busses behind the church and a place for an
occasional visiting pastor or singing group to park a bus, motor home, or camper with water and
electric hook-up. The parking lot is designed to accommodate daily and handicap needs with
paved spaces, while providing stabilized grassed parking for Sunday morning and evening
services as well as Wednesday night services and special events (e.g. weddings, funerals,
revivals). The Commission has stated that it wants the parking screened with adequate
vegetation and does not want parking in the adjacent rights-of-way.
The 233 spaces the church is proposing is a more realistic number than the 101 required (783
seats/8 = 98; 1 per resident church official = 0; 50% of the number of permanent employees = 3)
by Section 20-163. The same requirements are set forth in Section 9-277 (Subsection 9-
277(21)), which establishes minimum parking requirements for a number of different uses.
LANDSCAPING: The Final Engineering/Site Plan contains a landscape plan to screen the
parking and noise from the adjacent neighborhood, The landscape plan needs a full description
of the planting material and an irrigation plan before going to Commission.
ACCESS & TRAFFIC: The site is proposed with vehicular access to and from both Hayes Road
and Bahama Road. The site will generate traffic at times when the adjacent roadways are not at
their peak (e.g. Sundays and Wednesday evening). A significant portion of the congregation,
particularly the youth ministry, uses the church's busses to get to and from services. The
applicant has submitted a traffic study that has been determined acceptable by the City Engineer.
No additional off-site or on-site improvements are deemed necessary.
UTILITIES: The site will be serviced by the City's water and sewer system. The City has
adequate capacity to serve the site. Dumpsters, transformers, backflow preventers, HV AC
equipment, and other utility items, as well as storage facilities must be adequately screened from
public ROWs.
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Regular Item 600
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Storm-water management is proposed largely through an underground system, with two (2) dry
retention ponds.
LISTED SPECIES: The northern (undeveloped) portion ofthe site and adjacent property
contains gopher tortoise burrows. The applicant must relocate the on-site gopher tortoises and
protect the off-site population from wandering onto the construction site before any site work
may commence.
PREVIOUS BOA & COMMISSION ACTION: The Board of Adjustment heard the conditional
use request to allow the church expansion and the variance to allow grass parking at its June 15,
2006 meeting. The BOA recommended approval for both, subject to conditions, as follows:
1. clarification about and screening the church busses and overnight visiting pastors or
singing groups' vehicles and a DA to (a) stipulate the future provision of a sidewalk along
East Bahama Road, (b) establish reasonable hours for activities, particularly those that may
likely be heard by the adjacent residents, and ( c) limit further growth of the church (400
seat youth ministry and 783 seat sanctuary and no church school);
2. the site plan include adequate landscape buffers;
3. "no parking" signs be placed in the adjacent ROW's;
4. busses be adequately hidden or stored off-site;
The BOA stated that it had no objection to (a) overnight visits by visiting pastors and/or
singing groups, subject to a very limited number of nights as well as proper screening and
utility accommodations and (b) "mothers' morning out" or a similar low intensity addition
to the church activities.
The City Commission approved the conditional use to allow the church to expand and the
variance to allow grassed parking, at its July 10, 2006 meeting, subject to the above conditions.
The Commission further stated that it did not want a school and that the busses are to be
both uniformly painted and hidden. Provided this project moves forward, these items will
be addressed as part of the DA.
FINDINGS:
1. The approximately 4.28 acre site has a Public/Semi-Public Future Land Use designation
and is located within the R-IAA zoning district.
2. The site will connect to City water and sanitary sewer service. The City system has
capacity (both water and sewer) to serve the site.
3. No off-site traffic improvements, other than curb-cuts to the existing Hayes Road and
East Bahama Road ROWs, are necessary to accommodate the proposed project.
4. At its July 10, 2006 meeting, the City Commission approved a conditional use to allow
the church to expand, subject to conditions, and also granted a variance to allow
stabilized grass parking for spaces other than those used on a daily basis or handicap
accessible spaces
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Regular Item 600
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STAFF RECOMMENDATION:
Staff recommends that the Planning and Zoning Board recommend approval of the final
engineering/site plan for the Starlight Baptist Church, subject to the following:
1. a development agreement, addressing (a) limiting further growth of the church (400 seat
youth ministry and 783 seat sanctuary and no church school) and (b) setting reasonable
hours for activities, especially those that may likely be heard by the neighbors, ( c) stipulate
provisions for a sidewalk along East Bahama Road, when that road is paved, (d) establish
a maximum steeple height, (e) alleviate the excessive (beyond code limits) light spillage
near the northern-most driveway curb-cut, (f) parking setbacks, (g) screening the bus
parking, (h) painting the busses a uniform color, (i) overnight accommodation of visiting
pastors and singing groups, CD maintenance and operation of the stabilized grass parking,
and (k) any other pertinent issues that may need to be included;
2. completion of the landscape plans to include, for example, complete specifications for the
landscape materials and an irrigation plan before the plans go to the Commission;
3. any utility item (e.g. HV AC equipment, dumpster, back-flow preventer, transformer,
switch gear box, meter, satellite dish, antenna) shall be adequately screened from the
adjacent ROWs; and
4. before any site work commences, subject to pertinent permits being obtained, the on-site
gopher tortoises shall be appropriately relocated and any adjacent gopher tortoises shall be
adequately protected from wandering onto the site.
ATTACHMENTS:
A Minutes of the July 10, 2006 City Commission meeting
B Final Engineering and Landscape Plans for Phase I
P&ZACTION:
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ATTACHMENT A
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - JULY 10, 2006
PAGE 3 OF 40
PUBLIC HEARINGS
202. Community Development Department - Planning Division
Requests The City Commission Hold A Public Hearing For Second Reading I
Adoption Of Ordinance 2006-06, A Small Scale FLUM (Future Land Use Map)
Amendment Which Changes The Future Land Use Map (FLUM) Designation Of
One Parcel Totaling 1.72 Acres, Located At 1228 Florida Avenue From (Winter
Springs) "Industrial" To (City Of Winter Springs) "Medium Density Residential".
"MOTION TO POSTPONE UNTIL NEXT MEETING, ITEM '202'." MOTION
BY COMMISSIONER KREBS. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS.
DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE
DEPUTY MAYOR BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER GILMORE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
.:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING TWO (2) PUBLIC HEARINGS
AGENDA ITEMS WERE DISCUSSED SIMULTANEOUSLY. +:.+:.
PUBLIC HEARINGS AGENDA
PUBLIC HEARINGS
200.1 Community Development Department
Requests The City Commission Hold A Public Hearing To Review And Provide A
Determination For The Starlight Baptist Church's Conditional Use Request,
Pursuant To Section 20-163. Of The City Code, To Allow The Church To Expand
On Its 4.28 Acre Site At 190 East Bahama Road (Northwest Corner Of East
Bahama And Hayes Road).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
200.2 Community Development Department
Requests The City Commission Hold A Public Hearing To Review And Provide A
Determination Of The Starlight Baptist Church's Variance Request From Section 9-
278. Of The City Code To Allow Stabilized Grass Parking Spaces At Its 190 East
Bahama Road Location, For Those Parking Spaces To Be Used Only On Sunday
And Wednesday Evenings, Pursuant To Section 9-5. Of The City Code. This
Request Is In Conjunction With The Conditional Use And A Site Plan To Expand
The Existing Church On That 4.28 Acre Site At The Northwest Corner Of East
Bahama Road And Hayes Road.
...
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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Deputy Mayor Blake said, "We will take up discussion, Staff presentation, and the
Applicant's presentation, as well as all the "Public Input" on each of these items, 200.1
and 200.2, at one time. Once we have completed that exercise, then the Commission will
discuss it and will vote on each item separately. They are two (2) different items."
Attorney Kate Latorre stated, "Both of the Applications tonight for the Variance and the
Conditional Use for the Starlight Baptist Church are going to be Quasi-Judicial hearings
which basically means that you're going - to hear the evidence that's presented from Staff
from the Applicant; you're going to hear what the public has to offer; and you're going to
apply what you hear to the standards set forth in your City Code and to the Criteria set
forth in your Code for Conditional Uses and Variances.
All evidence that you consider to either approve or deny these Applications has to be
based on what's called 'Competent' and 'Substantial' evidence. And, this is a tenn that's
defined by the Florida Courts as evidence a reasonable mind would accept as adequate to
support a decision that all Criteria has been met. An easy way to detennine what is
'Competent' and 'Substantial' is that it's relevant to the issue. It's what a reasonable
person would consider to be relevant.
A few examples of what is not considered 'Competent' and 'Substantial' evidence - you
should not take this kind of evidence under consideration whether it's presented or not.
And, if you are going to be speaking tonight, please try to avoid presenting this kind of
evidence, because it's not relevant to the matter.
Evidence of similar Variances that may have been granted in the neighborhood or to a
similar type of property, are not 'Competent' and 'Substantial' evidence relevant to
tonight's Applications.
Emotional assertions of hardship without supporting evidence or testimony are not
'Competent' and 'Substantial' evidence; and any - conclusory statement without
additional supporting testimony or evidence' is not considered 'Competent' and
'Substantial' evidence. So, every statement you make must be supported by some sort of
factual evidence or testimony.
Some examples of what does constitute 'Competent' and 'Substantial' evidence are
reports, personal observations, and professional experiences of the professional Staff of
the City; or, a lay testimony, so long as the testimony is supported by fact, rather than
OpInIOn.
All of this evidence must show that the Applicant has met each and every Criteria set
forth in the Code, both for the Conditional Use and the Variance Application; and the
initial burden is going to be on the Applicant to show that all Criteria has been met. If the
Applicant shows in your evaluation, that all of the Criteria has been met, in order to deny
the Application, there must be 'Competent', 'Substantial' evidence on the other side that
the Criteria has not been met.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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The Criteria is set forth in your Ordinance for Conditional Use in Section 20-33. (d)."
Continuing, Attorney Latorre stated, "For the Conditional Use Criteria, the Applicant
must show whether the proposed Use, including its scale and intensity, traffic generating
characteristics, and offsite impact is compatible and harmonious with the adjacent Land
Uses and will not adversely impact Land Use activities in the immediate vicinity. The
Applicant has to demonstrate the size and shape of the site of the proposed access and
internal circulation; and that the design enhancements are adequate to accommodate the
proposed scale and intensity of the Conditional Use.
The site has to be a sufficient size to accommodate the design amenities, such as
screening buffers, landscaping, open space, off street parking, and other similar site
improvements. Conditional Use must - not have an adverse impact on the local economy
including governmental fiscal impact, employment, and property values. You consider
whether the Conditional Use will have an adverse impact in the natural environment,
including air, water, and noise pollution.
You will consider whether the proposed Use will have an adverse impact on historic,
scenic, and cultural resources, including views and vistas. Whether the proposed Use
will have an adverse impact on public services, including water, sewer, surface water
management, Police, Fire, Parks and Recreation, streets, public transportation, marina
and waterways, and bicycle and pedestrian facilities. And, whether the proposed Use will
have an adverse impact on housing and social conditions; including a variety of housing,
unit types and prices, and neighborhood quality - and that's the Conditional Use.
For a Variance, you have to see whether the Variance will be contrary to the public
interests and - the Applicant must show that to get a Variance, it will not be contrary to
the public interest and where owing to Special Conditions, a little enforcement of the
provision of your Code would result in an unnecessary hardship.
The Application for a Variance must also demonstrate that Special Conditions exist
which are peculiar to the land structures or required subdivision improvements involved;
and which are not applicable to other land structures or required subdivision
improvements.
If you were to grant the Variance, there must be a Finding established and the reason set
forth in the Application, justifying the granting of the Variance. And, that the Variance is
the minimum Variance that would make possible, the reasonable use of the land. And,
there also must be a Finding that the granting of the Variance would be in harmony with
the general purpose of the Chapter, which is Chapter 9 of your Code.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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Now, if you are going to grant the Conditional Use or Variance, that's the decision you
reach - you are permitted by law to impose special terms, conditions, and safeguards to
your granting of the Variance. These conditions must intend to reduce any adverse
impact which you think the Variance or Conditional Use may have - on the community
or the neighboring properties.
Also, these conditions must bear a relation to the standards and Criteria already set forth
in your Code and they must not be arbitrary or discriminatory and they also must be
supported by 'Competent', 'Substantial' evidence."
Discussion.
Mr. John Baker, AICP, Senior Planner, Community Development Department explained,
"The Starlight Baptist Church has been at this present location since about 1990. They
have a 4.28 acre site that includes the existing sanctuary and unattached accessory
building and a covered basketball court. They have Rl-AA zoning and a 'Rural
Residential' - Future Land Use designation.
They are seeking to build a new thirty thousand one hundred sixty-seven square foot
(30,167) sanctuary with seven hundred and eighty-three (783) seats. The existing
structures are proposed to remain. We are looking at a future Development Agreement
proposed to address such items as scheduling the sidewalk along Bahama Road and
probably other issues including to, but not limited to, screening the bus parking,
overnight accommodation of visiting Pastors and/or singing groups and some other items.
Subsection 20-163. (a)(l) lists Churches and their intended Uses as Conditional Uses in
the Rl-AA Zoning district; and we feel that the Conditional Use is necessary to increase
the intensity of the Use pursuant to that Section. Subsection 20-163. (d) specifies the
information that the Applicant must - provide for the Conditional Use. One of those is
the Setbacks. They do show a draft Site Plan that's included in your packet. It is a draft.
We've asked them to hold off on that until we get further - determination of the
Conditional Use and the Variance, but they do show the appropriate front thirty-five foot
(35') in the rear, twenty-five foot (25') Setbacks, as specified by the Code.
They are depicting a hundred and nineteen (119) parking spaces; which exceeds the
number that would be needed for seven hundred and eighty-three (783) spaces in the
sanctuary. Now, if they have the Youth Ministry concurrently with the services in the
sanctuary, then they need to provide additional parking in their Site Plan. If they do not
hold them concurrently, we believe that they have more than enough seats, at least per
Code.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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Sidewalks will be installed along Hayes Road as you can see from the pictures I've
passed out. Hayes Road is a paved road down to the intersection with Bahama [Road].
But, because Bahama [Road] is a dirt road and there are no plans to pave that, there are
no specifications how that would be. We feel if they did put in a sidewalk there at this
time, that it would likely be tom out when the Plans did come through. So, we'd like to
defer that as part of - through the Development Agreement.
Subsection 20-163. (b) states that any review of an Application or Plan shall consider the
character ofthe neighborhood in which the proposed Use is to be located and its affect on
the value of surrounding lands and further, the area of the site as it relates particularly to
the required open spaces and offsite parking facilities. And, that's one of the big things
we've tried to look at through this review. How can we accommodate the Church and
still respect and maintain the neighborhood in a semi-rural character of the Ranchlands.
One of the issues is that the Church presently keeps at least a half a dozen buses, and in
your packet you will see some pictures of about six (6) or eight (8) of those buses parked
the way they were in November. Now, I understand that the Church has been parking
them in different locations to make them less visible to the neighborhood.
One of the issues that's come up is that the Church does occasionally have visiting
Pastors and singing groups and they'd like to stay in motor coaches or some other type of
overnight traveling facility and we support that, but we feel that the Site needs to
adequately accommodate them with electricity, sewer, water, and being screened from
the public. So, hopefully that could be addressed through a Development Agreement.
With further comments, Mr. Baker noted that the Board of Adjustment "Wanted me to try
to find if there was an original Conditional Use for the Church, and we could not find one
- we went back to 1981, and could not find any original Conditional Use."
Mr. Baker added, "Getting into the 'FINDINGS' section on page 4, we reiterate, the RI-
AA Zoning and 'Rural Residential' Future Land Use designation - we believe the
Conditional Use request to expand and intensify the existing Church to be consistent with
the general Zoning requirements, and in the best interest of the public, subject to
clarification about the buses and overnight visitors with motor coaches and similar
vehicles." Mr. Baker then noted, "Adequately accommodating and screening these buses
and motor coaches." Furthermore, Mr. Baker said, "Approval and execution of a
Development Agreement addressing future provision of sidewalks along the adjacent
portion of east Bahama Road." Lastly, Mr. Baker stated, "The stipulation of reasonable
hours of activities that could be heard - by the adjacent residents; and staff also concurs
with the Board of Adjustment recommendations set forth below that.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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And going into those recommendations, they agreed - they want the Site Plan to include
adequate landscape buffers; they want no parking signs placed in the adjacent right-of-
ways; they want the buses to be adequately hidden or stored off-site; and the
Development Agreement to limit further growth (i.e. intensity); and also to set reasonable
hours of activities."
Concluding these comments, Mr. Baker remarked, "The Board of Adjustment and Staff
do recommend approval subject to these Conditions."
Discussion.
Mr. Thomas Skelton, American Civil Engineering Company, 207 North Moss Road, Suite
211, Winter Springs, Florida: stated, "What we are proposing in this thirty thousand
square foot (30,000) building is this section in here, and we'll have seven hundred and
eighty-three (783) congregation seats. The four hundred (400) seats here, will be
occupied by Youth Ministry. The youth are bused in. A hundred percent (100%) of the
youth are bused in for that. So there's nine (9) buses, or eight (8) buses, or how many
ever they have, one (1) each color, is what brings those youth here.
When we first submitted the Site Plan, we had the building at the Setbacks up here,
twenty-five foot (25') off. We had over eight hundred (800) seats proposed in the
congregation. The Staff reviewed it and asked us to modify it, reduce it some. So we
reduced it by ninety (90) seats; and, we pushed the building fifty foot (50') off the
property line to provide a twenty-five foot (25') buffer that will remain natural, adjacent
to this property owner here.
We are exceeding all of the landscape buffers, or meeting or exceeding, all the landscape
buffers; and this being a thirty-five foot (35') landscape buffer along these two (2) roads
here, there's I believe a ten foot (10') buffer along here, and we're exceeding that. And,
again, that was twenty-five foot (25') required, but we're providing fifty foot (50') there.
This Site Plan here, if you go by Winter Springs Code, and Winter Springs Code says one
(I) space for every eight (8) seats; well, like I said earlier, right now they have 120 cars.
And, it'd be kind of silly, to just propose 120 spaces and double size the parking. But,
what we're proposing, if you want to question the Code as far as the required parking,
that we also take a look - that if we laid it out with parking spaces that are nine foot by
eighteen foot (9' x 18'), which are acceptable by many other Codes, that in this area here,
including these paved spaces here, we get 204 spaces at nine by eighteen (9 x 18). This is
not parking in the buffers, that's all in it within that area right there and that's nine by
eighteen (9 x 18). Again, 205 spaces.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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If they required more spaces, there's areas back here where they could park and even if
they did what I call a 'Citrus Bowl' parking, where they just have somebody out, an
attendant out there that squeezed all of the cars together, they could fit 250 cars in there;
utilizing eight by sixteen (8 x 16) spaces."
Mr. Skelton continued, "Again, if we're going to question the Code, and that's - we like
to question all of it, even the size of the parking spaces and everything; because right
now, again, they park 120 cars right here. And, just by eyeballing it, you have 120 in that
area. You could probably get 120 in this area.
As far as the traffic impact, again, being a Church - the majority of traffic is on Sunday -
Sunday mornings - the road that's got traffic there is light. Eighty percent (80%),
approximately. We'll have somebody come up and tell exactly what the numbers have
been for the last three (3) or four (4) weeks at the Church, but approximately eighty
percent (80%) uses Hayes Road to go out to [State Road] 434 or other parts of the
community there."
Additionally, Mr. Skelton stated, "This is a picture that was taken recently and as you can
see they have started lining up the buses on the west side of the property line, away from
the eye of any of the passers-by there. They parked their buses on the west, in between
the buffers and the building."
Mr. Skelton further explained, "I'd say only half a day on Sunday and a couple of hours
on Wednesday night, every other day this lot will be vacant. There won't be any cars.
The only paved spaces are for the permanent employees, which that exceeds how many
they're going to have there on a daily basis. So, that is the reason for the request - to
keep that big, green, open field look, except for the paved drive and few of the paved
spaces there.
As far as the Stormwater, we've applied to St. John's [River Water Management District]
and obtained a permit, Storm water permit for the retention areas there. The water and the
sewer impacts will be minimal from this property being a Church use. The existing
septic systems are slated to be removed and connected to a lift station that will pump to
the existing sanitary in an adjacent subdivision.
The Church will execute the Developer's Agreement that will include - whatever
requirements for the sidewalks and hours of operation."
Additionally, Mr. Skelton noted, "And of course, we still need to go through our Site
Plan review process that will get the other technical items ironed out as far as the parking
layout or the rest of the Stormwater; and the Utilities review. And also, we'll have to go
through the Aesthetic Review of the building.
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Before the Preacher comes up and explains the operation here, I just want to state - in my
professional opinion, just taking a look at the - Code, at the way it's stated, that we do
meet the Code as far as providing the ten by twenty (10 x 20) spaces. But, if we lay it out
as they're laying out right now - parking cars - we can get more, or what they need as far
as the number of parking. And, on top of that, just one other issue is the number of seats.
What you're basing - if you say seven hundred and eighty three (783) seats, you're basing
that being a hundred percent (100%) occupied and a Church is, on their best days are
eighty percent (80%), except for those few days - Christmas, Thanksgiving, those days.
Easter, that they do reach. And, they're looking into options as far as off-site parking and
busing the people in at that time. So, in my professional opinion our 'Conditional Use'
request meets all of your guidelines there."
Dr. Glenn Riggs, 330 East Pinewood Court, Lake Mary, Florida: as the Pastor of the
Starlight Baptist Church, Dr. Riggs addressed the City Commission and presented some
Petitions to the City and a packet of information, to which he explained, "We have a fact
sheet there; we have a Traffic Analysis that we have placed inside of this, a very in-depth
one; and so we would like to distribute that to you as well."
Tape I/Side 8
With discussion, Dr. Riggs stated, "There's been mention about a 'Mother's Day Out'.
Truth is, we don't have a 'Mother's Day OUt'. We think it's a great idea. And, since it's
been suggested, we think we might - implement something like that. But, we don't have
anything like that. We have services and we do what Churches do. Sometimes we have
funerals, sometimes we have weddings. People come to Churches for various things that
go on. But, as far as a crowd is concerned, we have a crowd on Sunday morning that
comes and we pack our facility; and we've packed it for a number of years. We know
that for this Church to move forward it has to be able to grow."
Dr. Riggs continued, "What we're trying to do is maximize. We're trying to do the
mostest, with the leastest. We're trying to do as much as we can with what we've got.
We fully understand that whatever we build on this property, this is it."
With further comments on parking, Dr. Riggs stated, "We wish we had more parking.
We don't have. What we do have is that we have enough that we know that we more
than meet the City's Code. We also know what we can park on this piece of property,
because we have parked many, many, many more cars than what's showing on this sheet.
We know what we can do - we know what the practical side of this is; we know that we
can take this new building, we can fill this building, and we can park the people on this."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS. FLORIDA
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Furthermore, Dr. Riggs stated, "I've Pastored for thirty-seven (37) years, and we all
know that you're never going to grow past eighty percent (80%). Now, for Christmas or
Easter, people will pack in a little closer for something like that. So, when you take
eighty percent (80%) of that, you're looking at a number more like six hundred and
twenty-seven (627). Now, that's reality. That's what we're really looking at. Can we
park them? Absolutely, we can park them. We know we can park them. Because we've
parked this many cars before on this property. And, we know that we can do this."
Dr. Riggs continued, "We've provided help for those who had a need. And, during the
storms, we opened our facilities up and we let families come and stay in our buildings
during the storm~ It's been mentioned tonight about - being Hurricane proof - we know
this, our building would have to meet the Codes. And, whatever we've got, we make
available. As we have in the past, we continue to make that available.
We've offered our buildings free of use to the Ranchlands and to the neighborhood
boards of other neighborhoods around us; and some of them take advantage of that and
use our facilities. We've been a very responsive and responsible to the neighborhood.
We've been as kind as we know how to be. There are people that use our parking lots in
the Ranchlands for activities of their own - parties, birthday parties that they have. Some
park their cars in there and get a ride, and ride with others. People have offered, and
come and borrowed our chairs. We have been as responsive as we know how to be."
Additionally, Dr. Riggs commented that "This building's going to be cut in half inside.
These will be classrooms; and, there will be a half sized auditorium and that's what these
buses - the buses will not be parked here. They're parked here out of the way; and this
will be occupied by bus children entirely. And, so, it's not an impact. This seating will
not impact anything out here because all of these come on the buses. And, this will allow
us to minister to our adults. These are Sunday School rooms, and administration rooms,
and a large foyer - this is a family life center that we want to enclose, and this is what we
will use this for."
Commissioner Sally McGinnis stated, "Your Youth Ministry, is that what we used to call
'Sunday School'? Is that the same thing?" Dr. Riggs responded, "Well, we have Sunday
school for all ages, adults, and children." Then, Commissioner McGinnis asked, "So, this
'Youth Ministry' now, you are talking about four hundred (400)..." Dr. Riggs stated,
"...Yes..." Commissioner McGinnis then said, "...Approximately four hundred (400)
kids.. ." Dr. Riggs stated, "... Yes." Dr. Riggs added, "Parents do ride buses sometimes,
yes, and four hundred (400) would be a large, large group. Normally, I would say
maybe, three hundred (300) would be our max." Commissioner McGinnis then inquired
of Dr. Riggs, "Now, is this only on Sunday that these..." Dr. Riggs remarked, "...Yes."
Commissioner McGinnis continued, "...Youth meet? Okay."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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REGULAR MEETING - JULY 10,2006
PAGE 12 OF 40
Commissioner Robert S. Miller asked, "Do you have one (1) service on Sunday or do you
have several?" Dr. Riggs answered, "We have one (1) Sunday morning, and one (1)
Sunday evening, and one (1) Wednesday evening:'
Discussion.
Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore asked, "How many people are going to be in this
building right here - on Sunday - that will come in cars..." Dr. Riggs stated, "... Virtually
none..." Commissioner Gilmore added, ".. .Instructors, etc..." Dr. Riggs responded,
". . . Virtually none. All of these are for the children that ride the buses." Commissioner
Gilmore then inquired, "Don't you have adults teaching the children. .." Dr. Riggs stated,
"... There will be adult workers, but you're talking a very, very minimal number. You're
talking about parking spaces for those adult workers..." Commissioner Gilmore stated,
".. . Yes. What r m saying is if you have 400 children there, I would suspect you have
twenty-five (25) to forty (40) adults..." Dr. Riggs added, "...No, Sir..." Commissioner
Gilmore asked, "How many do you have?" Dr. Riggs stated, "Probably, maybe half that
number. We have them in large groups, have a large group service with them and maybe
four (4) or five (5) with each one of the groups that's there."
Commissioner Gilmore then said, "On the Easter Sunday and the Christmas periods,
when it would be reasonable to expect that diversity factor to go from an eighty percent
(80%) to ninety (90) or a hundred (100) even, what are you going to do with the people.
Tell them they have to go home, because they can't park on Bahama [Road] or Hayes
Road." Dr. Riggs stated, "That's correct. There's a number of options that we have.
Number one (1), Mr. Skelton mentioned that there's ways of parking more people on
there, for one (1) Sunday or a special thing. Number two (2), we can park them off
campus and we can bus them in. We can ask our workers to park away. We've talked to
some businesses in the area, that are more than willing to allow us to use their facilities
on Sunday to park people. And, with bus ministries as we have, it's easy for us to shuttle,
if that becomes necessary."
Deputy Mayor Blake opened the "Public Input" portion of the Agenda Item.
Mr. Mike Carringer, 726 Lakeside Drive, Winter Springs. Florida: spoke in favor of this
proposal; and spoke of the economic benefit to the community.
Mr. Donald Smith, 120 East Tradewinds Road, Winter Springs. Florida: noted he was
opposed; the character of his neighborhood; and noted the height of the steeple for the
proposed building.
Mr. Ken Smart, 122 Bayberry Road, Altamonte Springs, Florida: remarked he was in
favor of this project, but did not address the City Commission.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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PAGE 13 OF 40
Mr. Barry Campbell, 231 Oak Road, Winter Springs, Florida: referenced the Code and
excessive traffic, dust, and noise; and mentioned he was opposed to this project.
Ms. Kelly Smart, 122 Bayberry Road, Altamonte Springs, Florida: said she was in favor
of the project, and did not address the City Commission.
Ms. Jo Bush, 125 East Bahama Road, Winter Springs, Florida: asked if the Church had
future plans for a school; spoke of more traffic and paved roads; and asked if any
Commissioner was a resident of the Ranchlands.
Ms. Mary Leppla, 1560 Oak Lane, Casselberry, Florida: did not address the City
Commission, but was in favor of the project.
Mr. Raymond Carringer, 3468 Hawkshead Drive, Clermont, Florida: spoke on the
merits of the Church.
Ms. Yvonne 1 Froscher, 623 Sailfish Road, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke of aesthetics;
mentioned that over the last two (2) weeks the buses have been parked more out of view;
asked if a species survey had been conducted on the uplands; and showed some
photographs of Church buildings.
Mr. Glen Huff, 431 Lancers Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: mentioned collecting
Petitions from residents in the Arbors/Mount Greenwood subdivision; and spoke of
Church buildings.
Ms. Lorie Thebaut, 310 Hayes Road, Winter Springs, Florida: briefly addressed seating
capacity.
Ms. Nancy D. Fitzsimmons, 2302 North Goldenrod Road, Orlando, Florida: spoke of
her children and the bus ministry.
Mr. Robert Walker, 330 Hayes Road, Winter Springs, Florida: noted his property is next
to the Church property, and spoke against the planned expansion.
Ms. Billie Crigger, 45 Hayes Road, Winter Springs, Florida: is the Church Clerk and
wanted to present letters.
Tape 21Side A
Mr. Michael Lake, 220 East Panama Road, Winter Springs, Florida: mentioned he was
very opposed to this project.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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PAGE 14 OF 40
Mr. Larry Crigger, 45 Hayes Road, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke of traffic, and noted
he was in favor of the project.
Mr. Vernon M Conley, 250 East Bahama Road, Winter Springs, Florida: did not
address the City Commission, but was also in favor of the project.
Ms. Sylvia Morrison, 434 Boxwood Circle, Winter Springs, Florida: noted some traffic
information; and said she was in favor of this project.
Mr. Thomas Smith, 203 Morton Lane, Winter Springs, Florida: thought this did not fit in
with the lifestyle of this community.
Ms. Kelli Johnson, 802 Fisher Road, Winter Springs, Florida: as the acting President of
the Ranchlands; Ms. Johnson said they had submitted a Petition opposing this project;
mentioned she was very opposed; and noted concerns with parking and roads.
Brief discussion.
Mr. Tim Jordan, 235 Tides Road, Winter Springs, Florida: noted he was in favor of this
project; and said he saw no traffic issues with the Sunday peak times.
Ms. Vernell Shivers, 1036 Crystal Circle, Casselberry, Florida: did not address the City
Commission, but she was in favor of the project.
Mr. Tony Tizzio, 809 Osceola Trail, Casselberry, Florida: noted he was in favor of the
expansIOn.
Ms. Dede Lynch, 605 Brittany Court, Casselberry, Florida: Deputy Mayor Blake said,
"DeDe Lynch, did you wish to speak?"
Mr. Dan Lynch, 605 Brittany Court, Casselberry, Florida: Deputy Mayor Blake stated,
"Dan Lynch did not wish to speak."
Deputy Mayor Blake added, "They were both in favor."
Mr. Frank Stever, 452 Forestwood Lane, Maitland, Florida: spoke of traffic; cars; the
Youth Ministry; and thought that the parking was inadequate for the proposed building.
Mr. David Spence, 28431 Atlantis Road, Tavares, Florida: mentioned he had visited
Ranchland residents and noted he supported the planned expansion.
Ms. Connie Riggs, 427 Valencia Court, Longwood, Florida: mentioned she was in favor
of the project and said she had never seen a car towed from the grass parking area.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS. FLORIDA
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. CITY COMMISSION
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PAGE 15 OF 40
Deputy Mayor Blake said, "I am going to read off a list of names. The first stack will be
folks that did not desire to speak that are in favor of the project:
Mr. Don Shewmaker, (528 Lombardy Road, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Frances
Shewmaker, (528 Lombardy Road, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Lois Courtney, (1850
Knight Avenue, Orlando, Florida); Mr. Michael Maxwell, (112 Wheatfield Circle,
Sanford, Florida); Ms. Lisa Maxwell, (112 Wheatfield Circle, Sanford, Florida); Mr.
Steven J Simpkins, (181 North Edgemon Avenue, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Cheryl J
Simpkins, (181 North Edgemon Avenue, Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. Marty Riggs, (427
Valencia Court, Longwood, Florida); Mr. Randy Snelgrove, (273 East Bay Avenue,
Longwood, Florida); Ms. Lorrie Harjo, (5600 Autumn Chase Circle, Sanford, Florida);
Ms. Virginia Ellenback, (211 Brighton Way, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Paul Mayeski,
Jr., (152 Holderness Drive, Longwood, Florida); Ms. Lorie Mayeski, (152 Holderness
Drive, Longwood, Florida); Mr. Daniel Riggs, (245 Petunia Terrace, Apartment 103,
Sanford, Florida); Mr. Mike Goodall, (200 North Edgemon Avenue, Winter Springs,
Florida); Ms. - [Debbie) Goodall, (200 North Edgemon Avenue, Winter Springs,
Florida); Ms. Cindy Huff, (431 Lancers Drive, Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. Dennis E.
Patterson, (507 Evergreen Avenue, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Amy Patterson, (507
Evergreen Avenue, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Susan J Cornell, (135 Birchwood
Drive, Maitland, Florida); Mr. Vaughn Cornell, (135 Birchwood Drive, Maitland,
Florida); Ms. Paul Morrison, (434 Boxwood Circle, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms.
Deana Phillippi, (829 Dunbar Terrace, Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. Glenn Phillippi,
(829 Dunbar Terrace, Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. Scott Downing, (215 South Sunland
Drive, Sanford, Florida); Ms. Pam Jordon, (235 Tides Road, Winter Springs, Florida);
Ms. Reba Neeley, (111 Mosswood Circle, Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. E.z. Jewett, (749
Mahogany Lane, Altamonte Springs, Florida),' Ms. Marilyn S. Jewett, (749 Mahogany
Lane, Altamonte Springs, Florida); Ms. Michelle Smith, (218 Loch Low Drive, Sanford,
Florida); Mr. Clinton Smith, (218 Loch Low Drive, Sanford, Florida); Mr. Tim Leathers,
(346 San Miguel Court, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Ellise Shawley, (175 Magnolia
Park Trail, Sanford, Florida); Mr. Joey Roberts, (111 Mosswood Circle, Winter Springs,
Florida); Ms. Lisa Donohue, (116 Rock Lake Road, Longwood, Florida); Ms. Sonia K.
Dellamotta, (710 Palos Way, Longwood, Florida); Ms. Siva Dellamotta, (710 Palos Way,
Longwood, Florida); Ms. Briana Burdette, (18 Elkwood Court, Winter Springs, Florida);
Ms. Kimberly B. Burdette, (18 Elkwood Court, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Amanda
Burdette, (18 Elkwood Court, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Debbie Tenon, (843 West
Winter Park Drive, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Karen Watford, 260 Pine Tree Drive,
Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Sherri Kania, (212 Loch Low Drive, Sanford, Florida); Ms.
Misty Kania, (2824 Jewell Avenue, Deltona, Florida); Mr. Michael Kania, (212 Loch
Low Drive, Sanford, Florida); Mr. Michael Kania, (2824 Jewel Avenue, Deltona,
Florida); Ms. Joyce E. Holse, (1715 Vauxhall Road, Auburndale, Florida); Ms. Carolyn
Riggs, (330 East Pinewood Court, Lake Mary, Florida); Ms. Lynda Holman, (902
Osceola Trail, Casselberry, Florida); Mr. Matt Mallo, (3307 South Park Avenue,
Sanford, Florida); Mr. Wendell Hall, (1310 Lancelot Way, Casselberry, Florida); Ms.
Donna M Hall, (1310 Lancelot Way, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Ruby Billips, (606
Lockwood Drive, Orlando, Florida); Ms. Judy Chubb, (606 Lockwood Drive, Orlando,
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - JULY 10,2006
PAGE [6 OF 40
Florida); Mr. Karl Chubb, (606 Lockwood Drive, Orlando, Florida); Mr. Anthony S.
Falisi, (670A Macduff Lane, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Sylvia Ann Stephen, (211
Ruskin Street, Lake Mary, Florida); Ms. Bonnie Mallo, (3307 South Park, Sanford,
Florida); Ms. David Henry, (210 Albert Street, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Barbara
Lovelady, (1377 West Blue Springs, Orange City, Florida); Mr. John Shawley, (175
South Magnolia Avenue, Sanford, Florida); - Ms. Anna Chubb, (606 Lockwood Drive,
Orlando, Florida); Mr. Fred Pruessner, (911 Lantania Place, Oviedo, Florida); Mr. Tom
Wilson, (240 Pine Tree Drive, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Nancy Wilson, (240 Pine Tree
Drive, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Norma Develder, (2912 Golden Birch Lane,
Longwood, Florida); Ms. Donna Pruessner, (911 Lantania Place, Oviedo, Florida); Mr.
Ryan Peyton, (720 Mullins Street, Apopka, Florida); Ms. Kelly Peyton, (720 Mullins
Street, Apopka, Florida); Ms. Kathy Patterson, (202 James Court, Winter Springs,
Florida); Mr. Dennis Patterson, (202 James Court, Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. Larry
Stephen, (211 Ruskin Street, Lake Mary, Florida); Mr. Carl R. Roberts, (1811 Escobar
Avenue, Deltona, Florida); Ms. Michelle L. Thomas, (1618 Silver Fox Circle, Apopka,
Florida); Mr. Roger Courtney, (1850 Knight Avenue, Orlando, Florida); Mr. Thomas H
Roy, (40448 Holy Branch Road, Eustis, Florida); Mr. Anthony C. Doyle, (605 Brittany
Court, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Beverly Bryant, (305 Teakwood Lane, Altamonte
Springs, Florida); Ms. Nancy N White, (811 Richtree, Drive, Altamonte Springs,
Florida); Ms. Julia Christian, (270 Wetumpa Court, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. James
Christian, 270 Wetumpa Court, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Vernette Carringer, (3658
Hawkshead Drive, Clermont, Florida); Ms. Elizibeth Jimmerson, 303 Kantor Boulevard,
Casselberry, Florida); Mr. Kenneth Maxwell, (448 Marathon Lane, Sanford, Florida),'
Ms. Nancy Burdette, (303 Kantora Boulevard, Casselberry, Florida); Mr. Robert
Lovelady, (1377 West Blue Springs Avenue, Orange City, Florida); Ms. Diana K.
Herring, (23678 Christmas Cemetery Road, Christmas, Florida); Ms. Alexis Herring,
(23678 Christmas Cemetery Road, Christmas, Florida); Mr. James Herring, (23678
Cemetery Road, Christmas, Florida); Ms. Lettie Tyer, 320 Riunite Circle, Winter
Springs, Florida),' Ms. Iris Richards,( 587 Starstone Drive, Lake Mary, Florida); Ms.
Margaret Mowry, (J 480 Bridlebrook Court, Casselberry, Florida); Ms. Gail Spence,
(28431 Atlantis Road, Tavares, Florida); Mr. Chris Hall, (108 Aunt Polly Court,
Orlando, Florida); Mr. Leo Dixon, (641 Starstone Drive, Lake Mary, Florida); Mr.
James Oglesbee, (231 Ruth Boulevard, Longwood, Florida); Mr. Jeffrey B. Robinson,
(2700 Teak Place, Lake Mary, Florida); Ms. Paula Oglesbee, (231 Ruth Boulevard,
Longwood, Florida); Mr. Tim Burkett, (122 Garrison Drive, Sanford, Florida); Mr.
Richard J Elliott, (225 Wayman Street, #113, Longwood, Florida); and Mr. Casey
Harjo, (5600 Autumn Chase Circle, Sanford, Florida). "
Deputy Mayor Blake then said, "The following individuals do not desire to speak, but
they are opposed to each of the items:
Ms. Lynn - Burlingame, (510 Hayes Road, Winter Springs, Florida); Ms. Leeca Ramirez,
(240 Stoner Road, Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. Pablo Ramirez, (240 Stoner Road,
Winter Springs, Florida); Mr. Robert Burlingame, (510 Hayes Road, Winter Springs,
Florida); and Mr. William S. Moyers, Jr., (205 Morton Lane, Winter Springs, Florida). "
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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PAGE 170F40
Deputy Mayor Blake stated, "James and Amanda [Roden] are in favor of this:
Ms. Amanda Roden, (3315 Sterling Lake Circle, Oviedo, Florida); and Mr. James Roden,
(3315 Sterling Lake Circle, Oviedo, Florida). "
In addition, Deputy Mayor Blake stated, "Christy Carringer and lP. Bartlinski, they are
in favor as well:
Ms. Christy Carringer, (726 Lakeside Drive, Winter Springs, Florida); and Mr. J P.
Bartlinski, (141 West Magnolia Avenue, Longwood, Florida)."
With further discussion, Deputy Mayor Blake also said, "Pastor Riggs you actually filled
one of these as well, but as the Applicant, representing the Applicant - we will not call
you on this - to allow you to make comments again."
Ms. Elsie Bledsoe, 180 East Panama Road. Winter Springs, Florida: noted she would
like the road paved, and that she lives near Hayes Road.
Deputy Mayor Blake closed the "Public Input" portion of the Agenda Item.
Discussion.
Commissioner McGinnis said, "I would like to see a real, certified, bonafide Traffic
Study done. I think it would be to your advantage to have that done." Dr. Riggs stated,
"Absolutely."
Commissioner Gilmore noted, "The community - is objecting to seeing these buses out
there all ofthe time." Dr. Riggs stated, "The tall tree barrier here - you will not be able to
see the - buses coming down a paved road. Once we - put some - tall shrubs - this is
Bahama [Road]. When you come down Hayes Road on this side, once this pavilion is
enclosed, you will not be able to see any buses."
With discussion on the property adjoining the Church and the buffer, Commissioner
Gilmore asked Dr. Riggs, "Are you going to put trees or something in there?" Dr. Riggs
responded, "There will be a wide group of little trees that will stay."
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs said for the Record, "You were going to paint the
buses..." Dr. Riggs stated, "...Yes."
Furthermore, Commissioner Krebs stated, "Conditional Use, as far as your expansion is
concerned, has in the grass parking." Commissioner Krebs added, "I also would like to
see a Traffic Study too."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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PAGE 18 OF 40
Discussion.
Commissioner Miller stated, "Thousands of vehicles are going to be coming down
Murphy Road very shortly - in the next year. Murphy [Road] and Edgemon A venue and
your Church - if it expands the way you are referring to, it could have impact on this
community." Commissioner Miller added, "I understand that you want to minimize this.
I don't blame you, I would do the same thing. We haven't seen anybody here in five (5)
years or the eight (8) years that I've been here just come in and give us the worst case
scenario - so, these are just some of the other things. So, if the Traffic Study is
conducted, I would like to make sure that the City Staff looks at the forthcoming impact -
that we know that is going to be coming out of Casselberry right now." Discussion.
Dr. Riggs stated, "When we discussed this with the City Staff, that's one of the first
things that we - addressed, the traffic issue, and looked at your Codes and went and
looked at the carrying capacities of Hayes [Road] and all this, and concluded that since
the Church operates on Sunday's - the bottom line is this. On Monday, all day long,
there's four (4) cars there. On Tuesday, all day long, there's four (4) cars there." Dr.
Riggs continued, "My point is, is that, you've got a community out there that's got a -
facility on it that is vacant with the exception of a handful of staff - all work long, except
Sunday morning and then Sunday evening for a less extent."
Commissioner McGinnis stated, "Landscaping - from time to time we accommodate -
wonderful palms into the beautiful landscaping and buffers; and then over a period time,
they deteriorate and they don't maintain it - the landscaping - so, I would ask that you
would definitely make the commitment to in fact make sure that the trees and the
plantings would - when you cover the buses for example, if you just put plants in, that
they are not just little plants, they are big; and you would maintain them over a long
period of time."
Discussion.
Regarding the Board of Adjustment's actions, Commissioner Krebs stated, "If we do
approve this tonight, I would ask - the Commission to consider everything that the Board
of Adjustment - has indicated, including the painting of the buses, the parking of the
buses. They asked for a major Aesthetic Review. They also indicated the future
necessity, possibility of Police to help direct traffic in the high - peak times. And, that
there would be a limit of any future physical growth on that property." Commissioner
Krebs added, "And the Traffic Study."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORJDA
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PAGE 19 OF 40
Discussion.
Deputy Mayor Blake said, "Let's go back to the initial 400 seats - has Staffs
Recommendation changed by that addition?" Mr. Baker stated, "The only change would
be that the Site Plan, if they are concurrent, per the Code, would need to show an
additional - about thirty (30) parking spaces, if they are concurrent." Mr. Baker added,
"And, we would want to have a Traffic Study with the Site Plan."
Commissioner Krebs said, "Point of Order".
Tape 2/Side B
Deputy Mayor Blake called a Recess at 9:17 p.m.
Deputy Mayor Blake called the Meeting back to Order at 9:35 p.m.
Discussion.
Mr. Brian Fields, P.E., City Engineer, Public Works Department addressed the City
Commission on traffic and parking.
Commissioner Krebs stated, "And would the Development Agreement also restrict future
use, or could it restrict future use such as a school?" Commissioner Krebs stated, "It
could. So we would have to put that - would that be something we would do tonight?"
City Manager Ronald W. McLemore suggested, "We could do that as part of your Final
Engineering." Deputy Mayor Blake recommended, "You could make that a stipulation to
an approval of Conditional Use."
Mr. Tom Waters, 1033 Antelope Trail, Winter Springs, Florida: As the Chairman of the
Board of Adjustment, Mr. Waters spoke about traffic control.
Commissioner McGinnis stated, "I like the idea of a parking analysis. And, I would like
to take up on Ms. Froscher's comments regarding a Wildlife Impact Study - I would like
to know if there are any gopher tortoises there? What are you going to do with them?
Relocate them?"
Mr. Skelton responded, "They've done a Study. I'm sure there were gopher tortoises out
there. I'm not sure what the analysis was. They're going to have to update it - I think it
was done about a year ago. But, during the Final Site Plan, they'll have to go through the
process and go through the proper channels of relocating them." Commissioner Krebs
stated, "Relocate them."
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PAGE 20 OF 40
Commissioner Gilmore stated, "Brian [Fields], you just mentioned putting curb stops or
car stops in the field to organize the parking. 1 have a concern if you do that, that is going
to hurt - keeping it a nice grassed area, mowed area. I am not sure, 1 think you need to go
back and re-Iook at that one."
Mr. Fields noted, "Our intention was that, we can look at that, is if you don't define it.
You tend to get less parking as people like a little more comfort between vehicles so it is
our intention to maximize the spaces, but we can look into that."
Discussion.
Manager McLemore said, "I think it would be advisable in your final Vote if you decide
to go forward with this to actually put that language in saying that it is subject to future
Restrictions, that you may apply detailed site planning, so that it cannot be implied that
minimum standards only are to be used at site planning."
Commissioner McGinnis spoke for the Record regarding any history of Conditional Use.
"MOTION TO APPROVE INCORPORATING ALL OF THE
RECOMMENDATIONS FROM STAFF; RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE
BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. WE DEFINITLEY WANT 'NO SCHOOL'. IN THE
FUTURE, WE WANT THE BUSES UNIFORM AND HIDDEN FROM VIEW. NO
PARKING IS ALREADY IN THERE - PARKING ANALYSIS; AND I THINK
THAT COVERS ALL OF IT." "MOTION BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS.
MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "MAKE SURE THAT YOU ADD IN THAT
LANGUAGE THAT YOU MAY AT YOUR DISCRETION REQUIRE MORE
THAN THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS."
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS ADDED, "I WOULD INCLUDE THAT - SUBJECT
TO FUTURE RESTRICTIONS THAT DO NOT NEED TO BE LIMITED TO THE
MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS..." COMMISSIONER KREBS STATED, "...TO
BE APPLIED TO A DETAILED SITE PLAN..." COMMISSIONER McGINNIS
STATED, "...YES. WHICH - THAT WOULD BE A PART OF THE SITE
PLAN..." DEPUTY MAYOR BLAKE STATED, "...AND SUBJECT TO THE
DEVELOPER'S AGREEMENT..." COMMISSIONER McGINNIS STATED,
"...SITE PLAN AGREEMENT AND DEVELOPER'S AGREEMENT..."
COMMISSIONER KREBS ADDED, "...COULD YOU PUT IN THERE, BUSES
PAINTED TOO..." DEPUTY MAYOR BLAKE STATED, "...SHE SAID BUSES
BE UNIFORM AND HIDDEN..." SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER.
DISCUSSION.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
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REGULAR MEETING - JULY 10, 2006
PAGE 21 OF 40
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER GILMORE: AYE
DEPUTY MAYOR BLAKE: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
Tape 3/Sidc A
"I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE BOARD OF
ADJUSTMENT'S FINDINGS AND TO GO AHEAD AND ACCEPT ITEM '200.2'
- THE VARIANCE REQUEST." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KREBS.
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE
COMMISSIONER GILMORE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
DEPUTY MAYOR BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
.:..:. AGENDA NOTE: PUBLIC INPUT WAS HEARD NEXT, AS
DOCUMENTED. .:. .:.
PUBLIC INPUT
Mr. Bob Rucci. 973 Turkey Hollow Circle, Winter Springs. Florida: spoke of the
upcoming "Hogs and Hounds Charity Poker Run" Event and Vendors; and noted that
Invitations were just distributed for the Mayor and City Commission, and that a
Documentary of the Event was going to be produced. Mr. Rucci invited the Mayor and
City Commission to participate in this production and Event.
Mr. Tom Brown, 717 Adidas Road, Winter Springs. Florida: representing the Planning
And Zoning Board/Local Planning Agency's Chairperson, Ms. Rosanne Karr, Mr. Brown
spoke of their last recent meeting and recent assignments related to the Comprehensive
Plan and EAR (Evaluation and Appraisal Report).
Planning & Zoning Board/LPA
Regular Meeting
April 2, 2008
The attached was distributed during the discussion of
Regular Agenda Item `600' by Ms. Eloise Sahlstrom,
Senior Planner, Community Development Department.
John Baker
From: Linda Kenny [Ipkenny@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:52 AM
To: John Baker
Subject: Starlight Church
We do not condone approval for the expansion of Starlight Church on Hayes Rd. We live on
East Panama and the traffic during activities at the church causes problems even on our
road. A recent Sunday events at the church have caused enough of an increase of the noise
level that I was disturbed on my own property. Often they use an outside pa system during
activities which I can hear clearly in my house disrupting our enjoy of property and rural
setting. We are a residential neighborhood and have difficulty with the size of the church
at this time as it is.
Parking is a great problem now when they meet and eventually will cause them to expand
again to handle the number of vehicles - most of which do not appear to be neighborhood
residents - that come into the area. If they need more room for expansion we suggest that
move to a more commercial area Already they ship many people into the area on buses from
outlying neighborhood perhaps a better located site with adequate roads and better
handling of high traffic would service them better if they wish to expand.
Linda, Paul and Sean Kenny
256 E. Panama Rd.
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