HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998 12 02 Regular Item C
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
1126 EAST STATE ROAD 434
WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA 32708-2799
Telephone (407) 327-1800
Community Development
PLANNING & ZONING BOARD / LOCAL PLANNING AGENCY
AGENDA ITEM
II.C.
DISCUSSION WITH ATTORNEY ROBERT GUTHRIE ON
THE DRAFT BYLA WS/RULES OF PROCEDURE
Staff Report
Bob Guthrie will focus primarily on the Rules of Procedure portion of the document.
Page 2 Fall 1998
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Raising the Standard
for our Communities
FLORIDA PLANNING AND
ZONING ASSOCIATION
CENTRAL FLORIDA
, CHAPTER OFFICERS
Whit Blanton, AlCP
President and Newsletter Editor
Ph: 422-8813, eld. 311; Fax: 422-3928
charles.w.blanton@cpmx.saic.com
Carol StrIcklin, AlCP
Vice President
Ph: 836-5611; Fax: 836.5862
pwplcs 1@citizens4irst.co.orange.lI.us
Carey S. Hayo, AlCP
Treasurer
Ph: 843-6552; Fax: 839-1789
chayo@glatting.com
Andre A. Anderson
Secretary
Ph: 836-5884; Fax: 836-58l32
pwplaa1@citizens-first.co.orangeJl.us
DIRECTORS
TertBowIey, AICP
Ph: 262'7700. eld. 1108; Fax: 262-7763
Tracey..Crcv!e,..AICP
Ph: 677~8143; Fax: 678-2886
lcrOW/l@tynangroup.com
AbraHome, AlCP
P,,;656,2322, eX!. 131; Fl!X;658-ll504
planning@ocoee.org .
. 't1indliP8inter,AICP
Ph: 246-3414; Fax: 24~H!895
Ipainte@ci.orlandoJI.us
Vince Sandersfeld
Ph: 889-1712; F1J!C 889,1791
Ken Stokes, PE, AleP
Ph: 422-74ll7; Fax: 422,7413
k$tok/ls@zhMI.eom
FPZA State President
Joan CerrettI-Randolph
Ph: 644-5297; Fax: 644-3274
<, '-....1~'"
State District Director
Mack Cope, ASLA
.~h:~-9398; Fax: 888-9399
Past Chapter President
, . C.Douglas Kelly, AlCP
cC, Ph: 422-3330; Fax: 245-1184
dougk@mlller-sellen.com
Fall 1998
1'2i~~!GB:.z .
Page 3
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President's Message
CENTRAL FLORIDA CHAPTER
FLORIDA PLANNING AND ZONING ASSOCIATION
If you spend any amount of time traveling around Central Florida or, for that
matter, throughout the state, it's easy to see plenty of tangible evidence of good
planning being put into practice. From visioning to redevelopment planning and
urban design - raising the standard for the built environment has moved to cen-
ter stage in many communities.
We've heard how Collier County developed strict architectural design stan-
dards; now. several Central Florida local governments are developing similar
standards. Oviedo's City Council recently voted to spend money on landscaping
rather than hire additional firefighters. Ambitious landscaping and urban design
plans have been developed for Highway 17-92 and SR 50, and we're finally
making progress building better facilities for bicyclists, pedestrians and transit
riders. In transportation planning, the discussion has moved squarely onto the
topic of land use, urban form and urban design. away from more capacity.
These landscaping and beautification projects, feasibility studies and ambi-
tious redevelopment plans, all suggest that the public is demanding more attention
be paid to the character of their communities. In large measure, economic pros-
perity has made much of this possible. With the exception of a few select places,
these activities and studies have traditionally been seen as luxuries; wants rather
than needs. Now. with fat budget coffers they are moving closer to reality.
Is this trend merely a result of our robust economy and constant rate of
growth? Or is it a sign that Central Florida is maturing, moving beyond the
"growth is good" mantra of the last several decades and into an emphasis on
preservation, quality and character? Regardless of the motivations, our profes-
sion has a unique and rare window of opportunity to create better communities.
We need to take full advantage of this environment to improve cooperation and
forge strong partnerships to implement visionary, yet defensible plans, and craft
sustaining agreements that will help our communities create and retain their unique
sense of character. There's no better time than now.
SAMPLE BALLOT FOR OFFICERS AND BOARD OF DIRECTORS
Slate of Officers
President
Andre Anderson
Orange County
(Write-In Candidate)
Vice-President
Teri Bowley
City of Casselberry
Tom Grimms
City of Winter Springs
(Write-In Candidate)
Secretary
Nicole Guillett-Dary
City of Apopka
(Write-In Candidate)
As we prepare to elect a new slate of officers for the coming year. I am
very impressed with the number and quality of candidates for office. It says a
lot about this organization when it's not hard to find good people interested in
giving their time and energy for a professional association. Our slate of candi-
dates includes several folks who have selflessly given their time and talent to this
organization over the last year or more, as well as a number of fresh faces. I've
been very fortunate to have the opportunity to work with an excellent group of
people who serve on the Chapter Board. It's comforting to know the talent and
interest is there to make next year even more successful. Kudos to Tracey
Crowe and Vince Sandersfeld for developing an excellent slate!
Treasurer
Todd Peetz
Ivey, Harris & Walls
Beth Hanson
City of Maitland
(Write-In Candidate)
Board of Directors
(Five positions open - select five candidates from the
list below)
o Carol Stricklin, Orange County
o Ian Ratliff, City of Tavares
o Matt West, City of Leesburg
o Laura Mimms, City of Kissimmee
o Lisa Chiblow, Canin Associates
o John Omana, City of Lake Mary
o Andrew Van Gaale, City of Sanford
o Patricia Mayhill, City of Eustis
o Maria Triscari, Executive Director, International
Drive Chamber of Commerce
o
(Write"ln Candidate)
This is not a ballot BaUots will be moikd to FPZA
members in good standing within the next week.
Results of the election will be announced at the
December 9,1998, Holiday Paity
FPZA Central Florida Chapter by-laws require that the
slate of officers he published prior to mailing ballots to
members for the election. If you would like to suggest a
nominee, including yourself, please contact Tracy Crowe
at 677-8143 by November 10.
I recently traveled to Fon Myers with my five year old daughter to visit my
grandmother for her 92nd binhday. During our visit we looked through some old
photo albums she kept with pictures of the family, documenting their lives in the
Piedmont area of North Carolina from the turn of the century through the late
1970s. Several letters were included, neatly folded, still inside the original enve-
lope. The letters were from my grandfather. dating from the early 1920s through
the 1930s, when he traveled the country on business. They were a fascinating
read. One letter was sent while he was traveling to Fort Lauderdale in 1927. It
read, in part: "The real estate salesmen here are as thick as thieves, and all wear
name badges so they don't sell to themselves." He then mentioned some of the
sights he'd seen, including" ....a beautiful new development that's really
something...it's called Coral Gables." Quintessential Florida.
CONFERENCE continedfrom page J
ranged from executives with Universal Studios to members
of the Florida Legislature. A very special thank you goes out
to those speakers who captured and held the attention of both
the delegates, the Orlando Sentinel and Orange TV through-
out the 24 hours of educational programs and tours. The
conference concluded on Friday evening with the installation
of our own Joan Ceretti-Randolph as State President of the
FPZA.
This year's conference was full of information, fun and
opportunities to exchange ideas and resumes with fellow plan-
ners from throughout Florida. 1 want to offer a special thank
you to the 10 or so members of the conference planning com-
mittee who have worked so diligently during the past 11
months to make this year's conference a huge success. A
very special thank you is extended to all the mobile tour and
session coordinators especially Andre Anderson, Whit
Blanton, Tom Blanton and John Sember, who put so much
effort into organizing each of the sessions. Last, a big thank
you goes out to Abra Home and Carol Stricklin, who gar-
nered local sponsorship that provided the [mancial support
necessary for this undertaking. It was a job well done.
Page 4 Fall I 998
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MAKE A SMART INVESTMENT IN YOUR
FUTURE - JOIN FPZA Upcoming Events
ANNUAL MEMBERSlllP DUES:
Individuals: $45; Organizations (limit 3 members each): $125
r-------------------,
I FPZA MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION I
I I
I Name: I
IAddress: I
Iph.lFax: I
I I
IAffiliation: I
I Please make checks payable to: The Florida PIllIlIIing and II
I Zoning Association, and mail to Dee Emery, P.O. Box 896.
I Tallahassee, FL 32302 (850/878-4051). I
L___________________J
PLANNING PROGRESSIONS
Abra Horne, AICP, has been promoted to principal planner
for the City of Ocoee.
David Moon, AICP, has joined Science Applications Inter-
national Corporation (SAle) in Orlando as senior planner. He
previously served as planning and zoning director for Oviedo.
Also joining SAlC is Dan Preslar, PE.
Bryan Cobb has been promoted to planning and zoning di-
rector for Oviedo.
Alice Gilmartin, formerly with Allamonte Springs and FDOT
District 5, has joined RS&H's Orlando office.
Stephanie Gallagher has recently joined Orange County's
urban design section.
Jay Sargeant has joined the City of Longwood as planning
director.
Please send in your notices afjob changes, promotions and awards. FPZA
will print them infurure issues of the newsletter; space pennitting.
Florida Planning and
Zoning Association
Planning
Perspective
Holiday Party - Wednesday, December 9.
1998: Oncc again, FPZA's Central Florida Chapter will
tcarn \lP with the Mctro Orlando Section of Florida APA
for our annual Holiday Party. Last year's joint party was
a tremendous success, with nearly 100 attendees. So why
mess with success? This year's party will also be at Or-
ange County's Cypress Grove Estate house, beginning
at 6:30 PM. An awards programs is planned, along with
instaJlation of the new FPZA officers. Music wiJI be pro-
vided by Tony Luke and his band Slashback. Also on the
bill will be the debut of the "Planning Band," featuring Jay
Marder, Dick WeJls, KendaJl Keith and other planner/mu-
sicians. Join us for this very special and fun event. Cost
wiJI be $10; $15 for couples. Invitations will be mailed.
For more information, call Andre Anderson at 836-5884.
Luncheons: The FPZA Central Florida Chapter
continues to hold monthly luncheons featuring relevant
planning and development topics. Luncheons are usually
held the fourth Th\lrsday of each month at the
Homeb\lilders Association of Mid-Florida (HBA) in
Maitland. The next sched\lled luncheon is Thursday, No-
vember 19, featuring economic redevelopment plans for
the Lake Apopka mea, from II :45 to 1 PM at the REA.
Volume 2, Number 2
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Central Florida Chapter
Fall 1998
FPZA STATE CONFERENCE A BIG SUCCESS
Hard Work Pays Off for the Central Florida Chapter
By Doug Kelly, AICP
If you were not among the 150 del-
egates, spouses and presenters who
attended the 47th Annual State FPZA
Conference in Orlando. you missed a
history-making event! This year's con-
ference with the theme "Florida at the
Crossroads" was cosponsored by the
Central Florida Chapter of the FPZA and
was held September 16 through the 19th
at the beautiful Grosvenor Resort in Lake
Buena Vista. By all accounts, this year's
program was one of the most outstand-
ing conferences in the history of the
FPZA.
Nearly 20 sessions were held cov-
ering a broad range of topics concerning
tourism, school planning, economic de-
velopment and transportation. The
Planning Commissioner's Workshop
was one of the most successful events
during the conference, organized by Jay
Marder of the City of Sanford. On
Wednesday, 55 appointed and elected
planning officials throughout the state
attended the day-long event, which has
become a conference tradition for the
FPZA. Wednesday evening was topped
off at the opening reception, with noted
landscape architect Ian McHarg
autographing copies of his latest book.
Following the evening reception, die-hard
veterans of the FPZA relocated to the
Presidential Hospitality Suite on the
hotel's 16th floor, overlooking downtown
Disney. The Hospitality Room was at
its best, with plenty of liquid refreshments
and camaraderie available throughout the
conference. Thursday's program in-
Happy Hours: For the last several months, FPZA
members and friends have been gathcring at a local wa-
tering hole to unwind and exchange tales. Our next happy
hour will be Friday, November 20th, at Jax's Deli on
Central Avenue in downtown Orlando, beginning at5 PM.
See you there.
Planning ~
Central Florida Chapter. FPZA
P.O. Box 1081
Orlando, Florida 32802-1081
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Planning Perspective is the newsletter of the Central
Florida Chapter of the Florida Plaruting and
Zoning Association. Please notify Andre Anderson
(407/836-5600) of any address changes.
Advertisements may be placed by contacting Whit
Blanton at 422~8813. ext. 311.
~~POs"!<l.
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1 6 1 5 ~ ===""'P'B9 0 3 5 3 1 4
4700500.320 NOV 04 98
38 1 3 MAILED FROM ZIP CODE 3280 1
1,011,,,1,11,,,111,,01,01,11,,,1
Tom Grimms
City of Winter Springs
126 E. S.R.. 434
Winter Springs, FL 32708
http://www.fpza.org:/fpza
BUILDING PARTNERSHIPS FOR A BETTER COMMUNITY
c1uded mobile tours to Universal Stu-
dios and the town of Celebration. The
day's events concluded with the
President's Reception, held at the
House of Blues, one of Andre
Anderson's favorite hangouts.
Beginning with a welcome and in-
troduction to the conference by Orlando
Mayor Glenda Hood. the program fea-
tured topics on such pressing issues as
school concurrency. light rail transit, re-
development initiatives and retrofitdng
state roads for community objectives.
The speakers were outstanding, and
CONFERE1'/CE confined on page 3
FPZA Celebrates Fall with a Picnic at MClitland
Community Park - Saturday, Nav. 14
Join FPZA members, families
and friends for a day of fun,
food and friendship. On Satur-
day, November 14, from 10 AM to 2
PM, the Central Florida Chapter will
celebrate the completion of a suc-
cessful state conference ("whew! ")
and a change in the weather with a
free picnic at Maitland Community
Park.
FPZA will provid~
the picni.c basics -;\ . ..ii. .I
burgers, dogs, buns and .'~'
beverages,. along, with, , --~:.", i
the necessarY-condiments; j If y{l4:
c<;>me, please bring a, si<!-e dis~ l\nct{J1r
dessert.: The picnic will felllurelLl\'
. d'bsert' contest: '. Bripg somethipg
,ypu'iJlade and a oo!lar;lprizes will gq;
'tothe,top three<lesse~, '. .1
. Brlngithekids, spq~s or signifi-l
; .,...~, , '-"-' . - . -
lit. /'~.:'I.. c. antothersforare lax.-
.~ " ing day atthepark with
, . _ . . ill. friends and their fami-
. .' lies.
Maitland Community Park is one
of the region's nicest active parks, with
tennis and raquetbaU courts, two play-
grounds, a sand volleybaJl court and
nature trails. A private sector vs. pub-
lic sector volleyball match is planned.
The parkis located on Mayo Drive,
behind the Homebuilder's building, at
U.S. 17-92.and Maitland Blvd. Fol,
10~the)'oa?~ghtPMlqo-. _
theparlC;;Dogs-are allow eo, ~.
BUILDING PARTNERSHIPS FOR A BETTER COMMUNITY
..
JOHN L. MICA
SUBCOMMITTEE ON RAILROADS
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE OVERSIGHT
C!Congre~~ of tbe Wniteb ~tate~
1t}ousc of l\cprcscntatibcs
Das1Jington, jD(![ 20515-0907
November 12,1998
REPLY TO
o 106 CANNON HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING
WASHINGTON, DC 20515
(202) 225-4035
o 1211 SEMOAAN BLVD.
SUITE 117
CASSELBERRY, FL 32707
(4071 657-8080
o 840 CELlONA BLVD.
SUITEG
DELlONA,. Fl32725
(407) 860-1499
o 1000 CITY CENTER Circle
2ND FlOQR
PORT ORANGE, Fl32119
(904) 756-9798
7TH DISTRICT. FLORIDA
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM
AND OVEASIGHT
CHAIAMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON CIVIL SERVICE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATlONAL SECURITY,
INTERNATIONAL AFfAIRS AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE
COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION
ANDINFRASTAUCTUAE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON SURFACE TRANSPORTATION
Mr. Thomas Grimms
1126 E. SR 434
Winter Springs, FL 32708
email: john,mica@mail.house.gov
http:.//WWW.house.gov/micaJmlca.hlm
Dear Thomas:
I am pleased to report to you on the progress we have made relating to meeting Central
Florida's transportation needs during this past year in Congress.
As Florida's senior member of the Transportation & Infrastructure Committee, this year
presented me with an enormous challenge to change the inequitable funding formula which
siphoned off our gas tax dollars to other states. With the passage of the Transportation Equity
Act for the 21 st Century (TEA-2I), Florida will now receive an adllitiona/ $440 million per year
for transportation needs, giving us an average of $1.2 billion annually. This will markedly
improve the quality of our state's infrastructure and the safety of our roads. Florida is now
guaranteed at least a 90.5 cent return on every $1.00 contributed in gasoline fund taxes, a
substantial improvement over the 77 cents we had been getting back.
This legislation also contained specific funding for high priority projects in Central Florida.
1 have enclosed a complete list of projects and funding for your review. My highest
transportation priority is reducing the gridlock and improving safety on Interstate 4. TEA-2I
contained $14 million toward much needed funding which will help replace the I-41St. Johns River
Bridge. We have already had fatalities and the number of serious incidents caused by the
substandard conditions of this bridge are deplorable.. The bridge was built in 1960 when the
standard design did not require any emergency lane. Only 18 inches on either side separate the
driver from the edge of the bridge. I am pleased that this bill will help jump start this much
needed bridge replacement. In the coming months, I will be working with state and local officials.
to develop a plan to complete the funding for this important project.
Work is also scheduled to begin in fiscal year 2000 on constructing an additional lane on
Interstate 4 from downtown Orlando to S.R. 436. This will provide much needed capacity on
Interstate 4. It was also my pleasure to work with Representative Dave Weldon to secure almost
$20 'million to 'address the widening of Highway 192 in Orange and Brevard counties This
highw~y h~s earred the title of"[)eath Alley" and hopefully this action will speed up safety and
widening improvements. We have also secured federal assistance to aid a number of other road
and surface projects. These projects are shown in detail on the enclosed list.
PRINTED ON RECYCLED PAPER
Mr. Thomas Grimms
November 12, 1998
Page 2
After several years of planning, We have also recently begun an express bus service from
the Saxon Boulevard Park & Ride to downtown Orlando. To make this service more efficient, I
have requested that the Florida Department of Transportation investigate allowing the bus to use
the safety lane when traffic is congested. This practice is used safely in a variety of different parts
of the country, and the service would benefit from being able to bypass traffic when necessary. If
we can provide areliable and quick way f()r consumers to. get to ~ork, this project will bea huge ~
success.
Another project which is critical to easing congestion in our community is light rail. As
you may know, during the past several years, including the most recent federal transportation
appropriations bill, I have secured almost $54 million for a commuter rail system in Central
Florida. One premise of this funding is that this system serve the entire region of Central Florida,
including Volusia county. I am committed to implementing a regional system. The first leg of the
system will run from SeaWorld to Florida Hospital. The next leg of the system will serve the
many commuters in Seminole county. TEA~21 also guaranteed that this project will receive a
minimum of an additional $100 million during the next six years. However, the local community
must make a solid commitment to this project. The TEA-2I bill authorized 172 rail projects for
federal funding. If the local community is unable to achieve a consensus, these 172 communities
will jump ahead of us in line for federal support.
As you can see, we have made good progress in addressing many of our transportation
problems. As always, these projects require continued monitoring and work to ensure their
successful completion. I look forward to your continued interest and involvement as the
community pulls together to build a better quality oflife in Central Florida.
With my regards and best wishes, I remain
. cerely,
John .
Member of Congress
Congressman John L. Mica
1998 Transportation Projects
St. Johns River Bridge Replacement - $14 million
Bridge replacement will include six-Ianing on Interstate 4 from Lake Mary Interchange
through U.S. 17/92 to Saxon Boulevard. This funding will complete the final design of the
project and purchase needed right-of-way. This enables us to jump start this project and
accelerate the schedule by about 2 years.
Interstate 4 Extra Lane: $10 million
Several years ago I proposed to the Florida Department of Transportation this additional lane
through urban Orlando as an interim solution to provide needed capacity on 1-4. Currently
proposed from north of 436 to South Street, this funding represents almost half of the cost of the
entire project.
17/92 and SR 436 Overpass Preliminary Engineering & Final Design - $1 million
The intersection of U.S. 17/92 and SR 436 carries more traffic than any other intersection in the
Orange/Osceola/Seminole Tri-County region. This funding would provide for an environmental
assessment, preliminary engineering and final design for a Grade Separation Structure at the
intersection to relieve congestion, reduce accidents and enhance air quality.
LYNX/Orlando Intermodal Center - $ 5 million
This intermodal facility will house both buses and light rail. The bill also authorizes the entire
LYNX rail project, which will hopefully one day provide service from International Drive up to
Volusia County.
Cross Seminole Trail Connection - $1.5 million
The Cross Seminole Trail is a fully multi-use trail including all non-motorized user groups
accommodating alternative transportation. This project would complete the "missing link" to
the Florida National Scenic Trail by connecting Spring Hammock Preserve with the Econ River
State Forest. This funding will provide a pedestrian overpass over State Road 434 and a 6
mile trail segment to make the critical link to Downtown Oviedo and Winter Springs.
Design & Construction of Pedestrian Overpass over Interstate 4 for the Florida National
Scenic Trail - $2.15 million
The purpose of this project is to provide a safe pedestrian overpass of Interstate 4 for the
connection of the Florida National Scenic Trail (FNST) and the Seminole Wekiva and Cross
Seminole Trails. This bridge would connect multiple resource areas, providing for a recreational
facility anticipated to have over 25,000 users per month. MetroPlan (MPO) has designated this a
priority project for the region.
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1
1 ORIGINAL
2
3 IN RE: PLANNING & ZONING BOARD/LOCAL
4 PLANNING AGENCY, KASH n'KARRY/
5 COURTNEY SPRINGS APARTMENTS
6 /
7
8
BEFORE THE PLANNING & ZONING BOARD
9
OF WINTER SPRINGS
REPORTED BY:
FRANCES R. DIRIENZO, CSR, CMR
Winter Springs Municipal Building
1126 East State Road 434
Wednesday, October 28, 1998
APPEARANCES:
MICHAEL D. JONES, P.A.
301 West State Road 434
Winter Springs, Florida
Attorney for Kash n'Karry & Courtney Springs
Apartments
BY: MICHAEL D. JONES, ESQUIRE
ASSOCIATED COURT REPORTERS (407) 323-0808
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I N D E X
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Meeting held October 28, 1998
CALL TO ORDER
Pledge of Allegiance
Roll Call
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48
55
61
Presentation of Mr. Jones
Presentation of Mr. Kolb & Ms. Veaudry
Presentation Of Lee Jensen
Presentation of Lori Campbell
Presentation of Romulo Castellano
Presentation of Henry Goode 63
Presentation of David Owji 74
Motion By Mr. Brown 82
Roll Call 84
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 86
ASSOCIATED COURT REPORTERS (407) 323-0808
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WHEREUPON:
The following proceedings were had:
THE CHAIRMAN:
I'd like to call the meeting
to order, Pledge Of Allegiance, please.
everyone stand.
Roll call.
Would
THE CLERK:
Chairman, Tom Brown?
THE CHAIRMAN:
Present.
THE CLERK: Vice-chairman, Carl Stephe~s,
Jr.?
MR. STEPHENS:
Present.
THE CLERK: Marc Lynch?
THE CLERK: Bill Fernandez?
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Present.
THE CLERK: Rosanne Karr?
MS. KARR: Present.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Special meeting, Wednesday,
October 28th, 1998 seven p.m..
The regular agenda
item is the Kash n'Karry and the Courtney Springs
Apartments preliminary engineering and final
development plan.
Mr. LE BLANC: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
You
received the package and I would gladly turn it
over to Mr. Mike Jones, Esquire.
MR. JONES:
Good evening.
ASSOCIATED COURT REPORTERS (407) 323-0808
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THE CHAIRMAN:
Good evening, Mr. Jones.
2
I'll get my bottle out of here.
MR. JONES:
3
I want to give this Board a little history on this
4
project because, quite frankly, I'm a little bit
5
proud about the way we've handled this matter.
6
This has been going on for sometime, but these
7
plans I'm going to give you bore you a little bit
8
so you understand what we have done and where we
9
stand with the City and with the citizens.
10
When this project was first conceived we had
11
the grocery store and apartment complex and we
12
decided that rather than waste our time going
13
through the normal process of coming to the City
14
and letting them beat us up and then letting the
15
citizens beat us up when we came to this Board and
16
we go to the Commission, that we reversed the
17
process and we met and presented to the citizens,
18
the neighbors our proposed plan and development.
19
The City I don't even believe ever got to see
20
our initial development, but I'm presenting it to
21
you here as the Master Plan as you can see on your
22
Board we initially took to the citizens.
I want
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you to pay particular attention to the number of
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units that we have, the total number of units in
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this -- in this whole site and the number of
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buildings, note the configuration.
You can see my
figure here. We had a row or complex at this point
and a complex at this point and we had some
buildings that we were seeking setback requirements
for in the front.
We were seeking some parking space variances,
parking size and we had a configuration for the
grocery store that involved the -- as you can see
outlined in the orange here -- the roadway that
exited to the south on Vistawilla Drive with two
exits and we took this to the -- to the neighbors
and I want to add I think some of them are here.
Yeah, there they are. And I want to tell you that
they have been very helpful. We didn't do
everything they wanted and I'm sure they want more
and the City wants more, but we've come a long way
because these people did work with us.
The meeting that we had resulted in a
complete new revision. We moved one of the
buildings at this point, reduced the size of the
building at this point. We changed the
configuration on the building at this position and
then we met with the -- we had Vistawilla lined up
to meet with the entranceway across the street into
the subdivision across the street.
They suggested
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that that would cause a problem because this
subdivision is a gated community and certain times
of the day there would be problems with backup.
So, we went back to the Board again. In
fact, I think we probably went back to the Board
three or four times and we revised this plan. We
took the building out completely at this point
further reducing the density by two and a half
excuse me, by a building and a half. We then
relocated the road, the roadway pursuant to their
request and changed this out parcel and took the
roadway out of that so that there would only be one
entryway off of Vistawilla Drive.
It's offset from
the driveway across the street and we put a -- we
moved our retention pond into that area.
There were some other suggestions and I don't
know if they show on this plan, but they suggested
that we move the compactor.
They had some
questions about the playground.
concerns about the landscaping.
They had some
We tried to
address each of the concerns that the neighbors
gave to us, especially those that lived right
behind it. We went out and met with them.
We were
going to try to save the trees, but they didn't
want the parking here.
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So, as you will see on the next plan -- where
is the other plan? This is the plan that is up for
you tonight for your consideration -- I got you
we have now taken the parking spaces out.
We have
put in the retention pond to the rear to act as the
buffer.
We are asking for a variance from the
landscape requirements to do a little bit more
landscaping by putting in the Wax Myrtles which are
faster growing, bushier and supposedly will hold ~-
will have an effect also -- have some effect as a
sound barrier.
We've clustered the landscaping at the end of
this building per their request and at this point
we have agreed to put in the Wax Myrtles, some 22
of them across there.
However, it has been
suggested that they might want something else and
we're agreeable to working within the same
perimeters we have already changed it to and we are
not going to close the door insofar as landscapihg
it would be up to the neighbors and Commission.
We have now agreed with the City then comes
the City's requirements. We've made changes.
We've got a different landscaping plan across the
front and what we are going to do as far as our
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agreement with the City, we're asking the City to
assume ownership of the pond.
That pond has been a big problem because it
is owned by DOT and nobody wants the ugly pond with
a chain link fence. We agreed that we will extend
our landscaping from the entire length of this
project and across and in front of the pond.
We're
putting in a
a split rail
you call it split rail plan -- not
you call it a wrought iron fence,
but it is actually made out of aluminum and it
would have columns all the way across the front
with landscaping.
As we depicted here -- the City has agreed to
work with us in the landscaping and the fencing
around the edge. We're going to assume the
responsibility for the maintenance of the
landscaping. We're going to give the City a
liability bond for up to a million dollars to cover
the liability aspects and the City gets their
pretty front across there and we get to go on with
the project.
There are only -- there is only one request
for a variance on this project -- two.
MR. LE BLANC:
Three with the trees.
MR. JONES:
Okay.
The change in the
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shrubbery along the rear --
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That is not in your package,
MR. LE BLANC:
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that change in the shrubbery and park -- the
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parking space size.
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MR. JONES: Actually, there is one tree per
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75 foot required along the back and we're putting
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something like twenty-two across the one section
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and then this cluster. And then there is a
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variance, we've asked for a hundred fourteen
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parking spaces for compact cars, parking spaces
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from a hundred -- ten by twenty to nine by 20. And
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we got a stucco entry wall here request, change
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I don't remember what the requirement is -- split
14
faced. And we've asked for the stucco so it would
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be in conformity with the rest of the building.
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The buildings will be stucco so it keeps it in the
17
Other than that everything is either
same scheme.
18
by the code or for the most part exceeds the code
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under the revision Ordinance.
20
We have -- let me address the Kash n'Karry.
21
I don't have the last plans.
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Don, can you give me -- I'm sorry.
I left
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the color plans there.
The Kash n'Karry front part we've asked for
25
only one variance there and I believe that is the
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signage and that signage is the signage on the
building which is, as you know, these people have a
building, they use the same cookie cut allover the
country and this building is designed for this type
sign and they've asked for variance to the signage.
You'll see on one of your handouts -- I don't
have the page on it, but they've have asked for an
additional single tenant with a height of eight
point nine feet which is nine inches in excess of
the eight foot requirement. And they've asked for
a height variance of all store front, the building
manage size to exceed a height of 14 feet and then
there are some other requests you will find on that
page, a memo dated October 12th, 1998 and those are
all to keep the building in compliance with the
store and it's -- whatever they build and the type
of store they build.
I'm not asking for anything
special.
It's the same thing they are going to put
up -- there's five of these Kash n'Karry stores
right now going on in Central Florida.
They will
all be the same thing and that is by request to
make it the same as the rest of them.
We've changed the rear to allow the roadway
that I pointed out to you awhile ago.
We've moved
the compactor. You can't see them now.
Boy, we
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really moved them. I don't even see them on here_
Where did they go? Yeah, okay.
We put the compactors back in amongst the
building to buffer the sound. I can't think of
anything else.
Is there anything else we talked to y'all
about that you can remember?
A VOICE: That's all.
MR. JONES: What we have tried to do is to
satisfy the neighbors and their concerns and make
this as friendly a project as possible.
We have
certainly taken heed to what they have requested.
As you understand we've started out with two
hundred fifty plus units that we could build here
under the code and given up 50 or 75 of those
units.
By reducing those units we've reduced the
amount of monies that we can put on frilly-dillys
that we would normally have to put in, but we've
tried to comply with all of the requests of the
neighbors and we've complied with all of the
requests of the City.
There is no requirement that we do any
underground utilities on this project although we
have agreed that we will work with the City subject
to Mr. McLemore and the contributions are
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relatively significant that we've agreed to make.
Now, what I would like to do, we have the
engineers and the architects here.
I would like to
turn the -- each parcel over and let them -- go
over it with them, ask them any questions you have
pertaining to the engineering or the architecture.
Who wants to take it? You want to take Kash
n'Karry?
MR. KOLB:
I'm Joe Kolb with
Bowyer-Singleton.
THE REPORTER:
Please spell your name.
MR. KOLB: Yeah, K-o-l-b. We're here to
answer any questions you may have on the Kash
n'Karry site.
One clarification I would like to make on
parking, actually there is a hundred and twelve
required parking spaces that we would like to have
as compact spaces.
MR. JONES: On the apartment complex?
MR. KOLB: There is hundred fifty-four total
compact spaces we're requesting on that site.
Also, if you have any questions about the
apartment site we can talk about that, as well.
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Fernandez has a question.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Thank you, sir.
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Mr. Kolb, I believe it is? Mr. Kolb, you are
you said with Bowyer-Singleton & Associates?
MR. KOLB:
That's correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
The plans that I've got, I
need your edification that on the Kash n'Karry
Bowyer-Singleton is the landscape architect and it
appears that on the Courtney Springs Apartments the
landscape architect is Canin & Associates?
MR. KOLB:
Tha t' s correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
On page number eight of nine
pages or it should be page number eight because
it's really numbered sheet one of one.
MR. KOLB:
Correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
It says that this
architect -- Courtney Springs ContraVest, that this
is for bidding purposes only. What does that mean,
over on the right-hand side?
MR. KOLB: That is Canin's plan.
That is not filed in.
That is
MS. VEAUDRY:
just a spot we have.
That is just a spot on our
title blocks.
That's just on our title blocks t~at
when we eventually go out to bid we put a date in
there and that is just for our in-house records.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Okay. And in reviewing
MS. VEAUDRY:
It's not filed in.
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MR. FERNANDEZ:
plans it indicates
In reviewing some of the
and the listing of plants ~nd
so forth is window dressing and what really counts
is the actual plans that are filed.
Mr. Jones has made representation about a
cluster of trees and there are about 22 Wax Myrtles
and so forth, but the plans actually say that the
side rear property lines, one canopy tree should be
planted per one hundred lineal feet.
MR. LE BLANC: Mr. Fernandez, this came under
heavy discussion yesterday, this project as you're
talking about just a second
MR. JONES: Over here.
MR. LE BLANC: This was just drawn up today
and that was the result of the meeting that we had
with the Courtney Springs Apartment ContraVest
people yesterday so that, no, is not in your plans
and that sheet you have.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Is this that is now drawn up
what we are calling the plans that are binding?
MR. LE BLANC: That is the plans provided
that all the agreements are reached in removing the
telephone poles --
MR. FERNANDEZ: Are we going to have a
Developer'S Agreement?
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MR. LE BLANC: Yes, there will be.
MR. JONES: That will be the exhibit to the
Developer's Agreement and it will be maintained as
that exhibit.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay.
MR. LE BLANC: Apologize for you not getting
it, but, as I said, this is the first time we saw
it tonight.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
There are 11 buildings.
How
many units, two hundred and fifty did you say?
MR. KOLB: 242
There are three stories.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
MR. KOLB: 252.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay.
The six foot buffer
wall that is on the -- what is the direction -- the
southwest side of the property.
MR. KOLB:
Okay.
The rear wall.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I guess that is what you're
calling it.
Looks to be next to some sort of water
treatment plant or something on these plans. I'm
looking on --
MS. VEAUDRY: Are you looking at the
retention plan right there?
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I'm looking at three of nine.
Now, I'm looking -- all right.
I got a dumpster
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area. What am I looking at? This is three of nine
which appears to be the Kash n'Karry and I have the
dumpster area and I got to the left of the dumpster
area behind a dry retention pond, behind Tract A,
behind out parcel two commercial use, 1.6 acres.
All right.
It says six foot buffer wall.
Keep coming towards me with your finger.
What kind
of wall is that? What's that made out of?
MR. KOLB:
It's a masonry wall.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Masonry meaning
some definition?
give me
MR. KOLB: Concrete block wall.
MR. FERNANDEZ: With stucco?
MR. KOLB: With stucco.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
To match the sides?
MR. KOLB: Right.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Some of these things say
retention and detention. Is that the same thing?
MR. KOLB:
The dry detention areas are shown
as dry retention and the other pond is a wet pond.
So, the pond that shows in Karina's plans that are
blue, those are wet ponds.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I'm looking for a definition
of terms. What is the difference between detention
and retention?
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Detention is when there's a
MR. KOLB:
2
positive outfall.
There is orifice that bleeds
3
Retention is there's -- you're
down the pond.
4
depending on the pond to recover through the bottom
5
and the pond size.
So, it is dry pond that has
6
under drains.
That is what we have on Kash
7
The storm water gets in the pond and
n'Karry.
8
recovers through the bottom side of the pond.
The
9
other is a wet pond, has a positive outfall.
10
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Okay. What -- I know st.
11
John's Regional Water Management District, but
12
what's ACOE?
13
That's the Army Corp --
MR. KOLB:
14
Of Engineers, okay.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
15
Okay. On that landscape architect's plan
16
again it has "For Bidding Purposes Only" on it,
17
Says "one canopy tree would be
back to that one.
18
planted per island."
19
Now, I understand this new thing is just
20
fresh, hot off the presses on the color board.
21
Point out to me the islands. Where are these's
22
islands you're talking about?
23
MS. VEAUDRY:
These are the landscape islands
24
we're talking about in the parking lot.
They are
25
required to be every so many spaces and everywhere
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there is a landscape island there is going to be a
tree and that is what we are talking about in the
parking lot.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay. And where's -- the
lake is over to the left of that, Florida
Department of Transportation Pond?
MS. VEAUDRY:
The edge of the lake is right
in there.
MR. FERNANDEZ: You're off the camera.
MS. VEAUDRY: It doesn't really show on this
plan. Are you talking about the existing lake on
the adjacent property?
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Correct.
MR. KOLB:
That is
the edge of the pond or
It wraps up like that.
the lake is right here.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Okay. Mr. Jones indicated
that the City is going to own the -- where the
Florida Department of Transportation is putting its
retention pond.
That is what he indicated?
MS. VEAUDRY:
The proposal for the City is to
take ownership of this area.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Who owns it now, you guys?
MS. VEAUDRY: The Department of
Transportation.
MR. FERNANDEZ: And they're going to get it.
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MS. VEAUDRY:
If the City doesn't own it what
we will be left with is a chain link fence with no
landscaping and that's the basic DOT pond and they
really won't allow anything else and so the idea is
to have more of a park like setting.
k1
MR. FERNANDEZ:
How are y'all involved with
the city's negotiations with the Florida DOT.
MS. VEAUDRY: I think Mike can address that.
MR. JONES: We have met with the -- this
DOT's pond has been a real pain.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I imagine.
MR. JONES:
We at one point had the -- we
were even going to do our drainage into this pond
and they couldn't -- we couldn't do our drainage
into this pond because it would have been a private
use into a public facility.
So, we decided to get
the city to take the pond and we do the drain in
there and we would in turn give the City the things
we're giving it anyway, but it turned out DOT said
no even if the private developer drains in the City
pond and gives it to the City it has to be used for
public use and you can't do that.
So, we lost any and all benefit to the
developer for the pond, but the idea stuck and
initially the Commissioners and the City Manager
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were opposed to the City taking over the pond, but
after we proposed the landscaping -- which we can
work a lot better with the City than we can with
DOT -- the idea hung and we contacted DOT and they
will, in a rather quick transaction, on a public
service basis or public use basis for the pond
transfer it to the City with an easement to
continue to use it for retention.
If we -- if it stays in the hands of DOT we
have no control over the landscaping. They have
indicated that they would allow us to landscape the
front and to cover their little chain link fence
with Jasmine vines or something like that, but we
are going to have a chain link fence and there is
not going to be any variation. So yesterday that's
why we agreed with the City to go ahead and run the
aluminum fencing all the way across which we
initially proposed if the City had the pond and we
could use it.
Here, let me show you what we are talking
about on the aluminum fence. And the City is going
to require that we have a fence to make this
private.
It will not be used by -- accessed by
this apartment complex.
There will be entranceway
for the City and for maintenance purposes and there
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will be a fence around here.
What we do with the City later -- we don't
know, but on this plan there is no proposal for
this facility to use this pond in any way so that
it can completely be called a public use purpose
for the City and making it esthetics is a public
purpose.
So, everything seems to be on line, but
it is a two step process.
First you have to have a
buyer and that's the City and we will have to step
forward and go to the DOT and get it approved. And
the Developer Agreement will set that out.
That's
subject to the ownership.
will do this landscaping.
If the City owns it we
If DOT owns it we will
end up doing this landscaping they will allow us to
do across 434.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Then answer me a question.
I'm going to hand you an extra copy of this old
thing that I realize it's -- and make sure I
understand what you just said. It shows a
right-of-way line, fence line chain link fence type
up here on that retention pond?
MR. JONES:
That's correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Little section?
MR. JONES:
That's correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Are you telling me if the
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city owns it that chain link fence disappears and
there's going to be this aluminum fence?
MR. JONES:
That's correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay.
MR. JONES: What I'm telling you is what you
see on the color plan is what you would get
attached to our developer's agreement.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Yeah, but I don't see trees,
other thing where that -- this thing shows a chain
link fence.
MR. JONES:
Excuse me?
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Right back -- right in there.
MR. JONES: Well, you can't see it from here.
There's a stucco there and there and there and
because this was done in hurry the little riffle is
not -- you will see there is no barb wire hatching
across here, column here and here and here.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Well, it looks. like you got
trees over there to where your finger just was,
Mike.
MR. JONES:
Here?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Yeah, those big blotches.
Aren't they trees?
MR. JONES:
No, that was -- when we handed
this plan in we were going to do the chain link
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fence with Jasmine and you can see in this plan how
it is a little rough around it, supposed to show
the shrubbery and the shrubbery didn't come off of
this when we put it out here we changed it from
chain link fence to the
MS. VEAUDRY: What this plan is proposing and
what you're seeing here is addition of a palm tree
cluster here.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay.
MS. VEAUDRY: And some medium sized trees
because we are dealing with power poles and the
suggestion would be medium sized trees or Elms,
Crepe Myrtles or
and we also have incorporated
some large flowering shrubs.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Why the gap?
MS. VEAUDRY: That is where the large
flowering shrub passing is going to be in that
area, this area in question.
Okay.
I think that covered
MR. FERNANDEZ:
the plans, Mr. Kolb.
Thank you.
MR. KOLB:
Thank you.
MS. VEAUDRY:
There is one other -- there was
a question about the rear property line and a
screening of that.
This is a cross section showing
the -- where the single family lot would be, the
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six foot masonry wall, the proposed Crepe Myrtles,
the approximate mature shape of the tree, the dry
retention pond and the first thing over on the
apartment complex will be a large live Oak tree ~~d
the parking lot and this kind of gives you a
typical cross-section of what that landscape buffer
would look like.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Thank you.
MS. VEAUDRY: If you'd like to see the
signage when we talk about the stucco sign out
front, this is a conceptual plan of what the
signage would look like.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Why do you need an extra
sign.
MS. VEAUDRY:
This is -- it's not an extra
sign.
This is this project signage for the
Courtney Springs Apartment complex.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I know, but you're asking for
a variance for one additional sign.
MR. JONES: No, no.
MR. LE BLANC: No, Kash n'Karry.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay.
MS. VEAUDRY: Are there any other questions
about the Courtney Springs Apartment complex?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Masonry, I like brick.
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What's the matter with brick.
MS. VEAUDRY:
Well, our building, this is to
match our building so that the project has a
synonymous look and it matches.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Long term maintenance,
though, isn't brick better?
MS. VEAUDRY: We've had a lot of success with
stucco walls and the issue really is the
architecture and the look of the project.
Esthetically, you know, we just want everything to
match so it looks synonymous when you drive through
the complex.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Mrs. Karr?
MRS. KARR:
So, you we're just representing
Courtney Springs information.
Who is going to be doing Kash n'Karry?
MR. KOLB: I'll answer questions for Kash
n'Karry?
MS. KARR:
Do you have a sign for the Kash
n'Karry?
MR. KOLB:
MS. KARR:
No, it's not in your package?
I know, but I was hoping to see
the colors and --
MR. KOLB:
There should by a colored sheet.
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MR. LE BLANC:
I don't have that.
MS. KARR:
That is the way the apartments are
going to look?
MR. JONES: Yes, ma'am.
MS. KARR: Can we get that on the camera.
MR. KOLB: I want to explain about the
signage real quick on the Kash n'Karry.
The
additional sign that we are requesting, there is
project identification sign here and here and
that's going to have the Kash n'Karry and it is
going to have the small retail store.
And so the
additional sign we are requesting -- I'm sorry --
it's here and here.
MR. LE BLANC:
No.
MR. KOLB:
Yes.
MR. LE BLANC:
The project is authorized
No.
two tenant identification signs and I looked at it
a little better than Joe, here and here.
This sign
will come in once this property is developed.
This
sign will come in once this property is developed.
They are asking for an additional identification
sign for the west side, the west entry off of 434.
MR. KOLB:
Stand corrected.
This is a single
use sign here and here.
are here and here.
So, the multiple use signs
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THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. LeBlanc, the signs, is
that a variance, you're giving them an extra sign?
MR. LE BLANC:
That would be a variance that
the Commission would have to grant.
MR. BROWN:
That's because it's your
procedure to do it that way, Kash n'Karry because
that is the way the stores are set up.
MR. KOLB: Well, they feel, yes, that they
need, since they are on two street frontages that
they would like to have that identification on each
of the street frontages.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Just a point of interest the
Board attended a state Planning And Zoning and
different companies like McDonald's and so forth,
they are breaking away from their variances to fit
into the City codes and I want to get that back to
our City manager, Mr. McLemore because more and
more we are doing away with variance and staying
within the variances and not giving variances as
much as they were in the past just because it is a
Hess gas station or something like that we are
requesting that they bring it down to what we would
want in the City to make it look uniform so
MR. KOLB: Actually, the signage that we ar$
doing is a little above what they usually do,
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though.
is in keeping with the
It's in keeping with the
The architecture
architecture in the area.
building. I wish I had a plan.
THE CHAIRMAN: No, I was talking about the
number of them. I think that anybody in this area,
if there is one sign there they will certainly know
there is a Kash n'Karry, to have another on
Vistawilla I don't think is necessary. Most people
living there going in and out are going to know it
is there, just a point of interest more or less.
The city is giving a variance. We certainly
under stand tha t.
MR. LE BLANC: Mr. Chairman, let us not get
confused.
The variance sign they are requesting is
here, the western end on 434.
They are authorized
two multi tenant signs by the new development
guidelines. One of them would be on Vistawilla
Drive at this point here and the other would be at
this point here.
THE CHAIRMAN:
MR. LE BLANC:
Okay.
So, this is the sign that's in
question.
THE CHAIRMAN:
That is just a Kash n'Karry
sign.
MR. LE BLANC:
That would be just a Kash
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n'Karry sign.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Thank you.
Mr. Fernandez?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. LeBlanc, I note in the
chronology presented to us on page four this matt$~
went in front of the City Commission August 10th,
1998.
MR. LE BLANC: That is correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Has it ever gone before us on
a conceptual plan?
MR. LE BLANC: No it has not, conceptual
plans are not required to go to anybody.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Since we are only advisory to
the City Commission and since the City Commission
ultimately has the final say-so and since our
function tonight is to determine whether or not
this plan meets the technical requirements of our
various codes, and if it does, to make findings of
fact how it meets or does not meet those technical
requirements.
What did the City Commission think of the
conceptual plan? It doesn't do us any good to make
recommendations or approve if the City Commission
is going to give us a thumb down.
MR. LE BLANC:
They thought of it in a
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this settlement agreement and the question was
2
because it said commercial, was an apartment
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complex commercial or was it residential?
4
MR. MALAVE: All of this is Tract l5 of which
5
the northern -- my name is Ray Malave, M-a-l-a-v-e,
6
Bowyer Singleton.
7
I'm involved with all Tuskawilla -- the
8
original parcel of Tract 15 includes everything
9
that abuts 434, includes Howell Creek Reserve and
10
Eagle Watch and also includes the commercial parcel
11
there where the Hess was developed.
The southern
12
half has been developed into what is now Howell
13
Creek Reserve.
The northern half, small portion of
14
it is single family located on the western side of
15
the conservation lake area where the fire
16
right in this Vicinity is where the fire
station
17
station is going to be for the City.
That was
18
parcel 1e-1A.
This one right here is 1C and that's
19
the current designation of this parcel, Tract 15,
20
Parcel 1C if that helps any.
21
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Don't have a 1C, but it says
22
15-1 is commercial.
23
MR. MALAVE:
That is exactly what this one
24
is, 15-1.
It has been divided up in A, Band C's.
25
MR. FERNANDEZ: Are you telling me that three
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story, two hundred fifty apartments is commercial?
MR. MALAVE: When we went to the city
Commission which Mike I think explained a little
bit one of the things we were asking is could we
put in this commercial zone apartments.
The ei ty
Commission together with the legal staff indicated
that was possible.
Therefore, we proceeded in
developing the things we have before you.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I will leave that to those
higher beings that know what they're doing.
On the Settlement Agreement, Ordinance I
should say under Section 4 it says that:
"The maximum allowed number of dwelling units
per gross residential acre for multifamily dwelling
units within the Tuskawilla PUD is waived to the
extent permitted under the agreement upon
recommendations from the Planning and Zoning
Board."
Now, if I read that correctly then this Board
has to make some recommendations to the City
Commission and I think -- I don't know whether we
got the cart before the horse or not.
This
agreement seems to indicate that they should have
come to us.
MR. JONES: Are you reading the Ordinance?
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MR. FERNANDEZ:
I'm reading the ordinance,
Section 4, page four.
MR. JONES:
That ordinance is not applicable.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Seems to incorporate adopting
the settlement agreement between the city of Winter
Springs and Winter Springs Development Joint
Venture Providing for a development order and
amending Annexation Ordinance 64 waiving
multifamily dwelling unit density limits pursuant
to our codes.
MR. LE BLANC: Which ordinance is that?
MR. FERNANDEZ: 489, page four, Roman Numeral
IV.
If I heard you correct the City Commission
and City Attorney has already approved multifamily
in this commercial area and we haven't had any
recommendations from P & Z.
out.
I sort of feel left
A VOICE:
This was one done many years ago.
The waiver was entered into it.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
The ordinance is done in '90.
The Vested Rights Permit is '93.
MR. LE BLANC:
If I remember correctly the
maximum number of units per acre probably was
sixteen multifamily units and that is what
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addresses it can have more.
Because if you notice
where st. John's Landing is if you look at the
Marina site in the PUD it had where we now have 31
or 32 single family units it could have had 166
multifamily. Where the Reserve at Tuskawilla has
92 units they could have had 1,480.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Maybe, I can short-circuit
it. What recommendations do we need to make to
comply with this settlement agreement section,
Roman Numeral IV, page four of Ordinance 489.
I don't believe you have to do
MR. LE BLANC:
anything.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Okay.
MR. JONES: At the very best, Bill, I think
it would be that you agree with the City
Attorney's -- what do you call it, I guess, legal
opinion.
MR. LE BLANC: What 489 does, basically, is
adopts the settlement agreement.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
language.
MR. LE BLANC:
Put's it in superfluous
Puts it in attorney language.
You and Mike can talk about that.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Right.
MR. LE BLANe: That is what 489 does, adopts
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the settlement agreement Court Order.
I want somebody
MR. FERNANDEZ: All right.
to talk to me about Eagles.
MR. KOLB: We requested a letter as Mr.
LeBlanc asked us to get, a letter from the Florida
Game And Fresh Water Commission. We spoke to them
about the letter saying our project would have no
impact.
That letter has been written.
It is on
its way to you. You will get a copy within the
week, says that this project would have no impact
on the Eagle that is out there.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Who is that coming
from?
MR. KOLB:
Florida Game And Fresh Water
Fishing Commission.
MR. LE BLANC: Mr. Fernandez, most of the
Eagles in that area are citified and they are
accustomed to --
MR. FERNANDEZ:
City Eagles and Country
Eagles.
MR. LE BLANC:
That is right.
There was an
Eagle on the southeast corner of ParcellS when
they where building Vistawilla Drive.
His name was
SE-04.
The letter came back and said he was
accustomed to urbanization, must be a City Eagle.
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Okay, thank you, Mr Chairman.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
2
Is there any other comments by
THE CHAIRMAN:
3
the Commission? Is there any other presentation on
4
Kash n'Karry?
5
If not -- Mr. Stephens?
6
MR. STEPHENS: Yeah, I do have -- I was going
7
to ask about the Eagles, as well.
Just how far
8
away is this from the Eagle's nest?
9
The radius of a thousand
MR. MALAVE:
10
miles -- thousand feet doesn't even come across
11
this area right here trying to point right there.
12
So, the radius of a thousand feet from the original
13
nest which was located in Vistawilla doesn't come
14
near Eagle Watch.
Doesn't even come to
15
Vistawilla.' We're not even in -- so, the one
16
thousand feet influence that the Fish And Game
17
Commission puts on construction.
18
Okay.
Now, but in Florida the
THE eHAIRMAN:
19
secondary zone encompasses an extending seven
20
hundred fifty feet out from the primary zone, one
21
thousand five hundred feet from the nest.
22
If you're aware last year the
MR. MALAVE:
23
secondary zone was eliminated from the federal
24
guidelines.
25
I'm reading this packet we
MR. STEPHENS:
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got.
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That was eliminated last year.
MR. MALAVE:
3
There is an abundance of Eagles now, that it is not
4
really an endangered species like we thought so
5
reduced some of the requirements.
That is why the
6
letter coming from Jim Palmer, Fish and Game
7
Commission will indicate we are not having any
8
concerns or problems with building this project.
9
MR. STEPHENS:
I have one more question.
If
10
this deal falls through with the fence around the
11
retention pond and we have to go with the chain
12
link fence is there any thought given to maybe
13
making that a vinyl coated chain link fence, the
14
green type.
15
If the deal faIls through you got
MR. JONES:
16
to deal with DOT, not us.
So they are going to put
17
up what they put up. We are still trying to work ~
18
deal with DOT that we will put in -- they will
19
allow us to put instead of green, black vinyl chain
20
link fence and allow us to do -- the plan you have
21
in front of you was really going to be a DOT fence
22
without aluminum in it, chain link with shrubbery
23
and Jasmine on it, but DOT insists that their
24
fencing, if they own it, has to be chain link.
25
MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. Jones, while you are
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there and with the Chairman's permission is this
property located within the Tuskawilla
Beautification Project area and does it meet its
requirements?
MR. JONES:
I don't believe it is.
It is
outside of the --
THE CHAIRMAN:
Is it part of the PUD?
MR. JONES: Yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: Well, then it is part of
Tuskawilla --
MR. JONES: It is part of Tuskawilla. I
don't think it is part of the beautification plan,
isn't it?
MR. BROWN:
The homeowner's are here tonight.
They are eligible to belong to the Tuskawilla
Homeowner's Association, I'm sure.
MR. LE BLANC:
I think, possibly, Vistawilla
Drive will be.
I can't answer -- everything that's
in PUD is not in the Beautification District. For
instance st. John's landing is not in there. Arbor
Glenn is not in there. It is very good
possibility -- I have not attended the meetings. I
do not know the District, but I would say,
probably, Vistawilla Drive the entryway there is
probably within the Beautification District.
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THE CHAIRMAN:
I guess for my own
clarification I have to really rack my brains. I
served on Planning and Zoning Boards back when
Tuskawilla PUD and Tract 15 and all this was being
shifted around from commercial to the single family
to commercial family owned.
This is the same area
we are talking about that we went through in the
90's and back and forth is that true, Mr. Jones,
when all of the discussions were about not putting
Vistawilla through as I remember you were here at
some of the meetings.
I don't recall any of that.
I
MR. JONES:
was not involved in that.
THE eHAIRMAN:
I know you were at some of the
meetings.
MR. JONES:
Only time I came to the meetings,
sir, is when I was involved in a lawsuit. The
lawsuit had to do with development of Howell ereek
Reserve and some of Eagle Watch into --
THE CHAIRMAN:
Okay. You probable know as
much as I do, you know, vaguely
MR. JONES:
Even that plan I was here on
which involved the 52 acre burrow pit we were going
to dig.
THE eHAIRMAN:
That is where I know you from,
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the burrow pit.
2
MR. JONES: Vistawilla Drive was still shown
3
on that plan and also still residential development
4
on that plan.
5
Yeah.
THE eHAIRMAN:
6
MR. JONES: Matter of fact, it was built.
7
That's right.
8
That's correct.
THE eHAIRMAN:
9
No, I'm trying to
you know get my time --
10
MR. JONES: Yeah, it is kind of
11
interesting we would be back here --
12
THE CHAIRMAN:
It's ten years.
13
These people here they just moved
MR. JONES:
into this area, Howell ereek and Eagle Watch.
They
weren't aware we had this low, low density project
with 50 acres of public lakes for everybody and we
lost that.
THE eHAIRMAN:
I know it is -- I was telling
Mr. Fernandez earlier it is a come down on where we
were at that time.
There was going to be thousands
of apartments going all the way up to Tuskawilla.
If I remember correctly we did a lot of jumping and
screaming and carrying on.
Okay.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Need to get public input.
THE CHAIRMAN: I'm still trying to think what
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else is -- Miss Karr?
MS. KARR:
I have just a few questions.
Is
there any reason why the developer chose Kash
n'Karry to pair with this apartment complex?
MR. JONES: Yes ma'am.
contract first and the money.
They come up with the
MS. KARR:
How does it -- I mean I don't know
how this is going to sound but what type of
clientele
MR. JONES: That is a good question. I'm
glad you asked that. This is a prototype of store.
Kash n'Karry moved into this area -- they had moved
into Tampa.
I don't know if you have been to Tampa
lately.
They have a number of stores and their
stores compete with Publix and the larger units you
see .here with a pharmacy. It has a deli. It has a
liquor store -- it has this facility has
would have all of the things you have at the large
It is a large store.
They are
Publix stores.
building five.
How does it rank? I don't know where you
shop.
It ranks right up with Publix, Winn Dixie
and Albertson's.
MS. KARR: Okay. What about Food Lion?
MR. JONES: Well, Food Lion owns Kash
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n'Karry.
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Oh, what a surprise.
MS. KARR:
3
MR. JONES: You don't shop at Food Lion?
4
Okay.
5
Well, everything changes, but the store
6
itself and the location and they chose to put a
7
nice facility in a nice neighborhood.
So, I would
8
expect that they expect to draw the clientele from
9
that neighborhood.
10
MS. KARR: My other question has to do with
11
traffic flow and has there been any traffic study
12
done on how the traffic from Vistawilla going into
13
434 is going to be impacted by the customers and
14
the residents of the apartment complex.
15
There have been.
MR. JONES: Yes, ma'am.
16
Traffic studies have been done and the studies and
17
the City engineers have worked with our engineers
18
on that traffic study. And that is why we
19
initially had concern -- the city had concern about
the removal of the driveway on Vistawilla.
They
wanted to line it up which made sense to us anyway,
but they acquiesced and allowed us to move it to
keep the neighbors happy and they, likewise,
recognized as we did there was a traffic problem
created at this point caused by the -- yes, the
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traffic flows internally and traffic flows on 434
and Vistawilla have been studied and those have
been submitted to the City.
MS. KARR:
Has the City considered the mix of
the residents that are in the gated community and
the type of store Kash n'Karry is?
MR. LE BLANC: Uh, that if you would look at
489, Ordinance 489 if you would go into the back
and it tells you by Court Order all of the uses
allowed. We stopped at -- I think we almost go
through the alphabet twice. We stop at CV and
those stores are allowed use through the court
ordered settlement agreement. We basically don't
have very much chose because this is in the
document that was approved by the City Father's at
the time and the judge and what have you so it is
17
an authorized use.
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THE CHAIRMAN:
I have a --
MS. KARR. Go ahead.
THE CHAIRMAN: I have a generic question.
MR. LE BLANe: For who?
THE CHAIRMAN: For you, Don.
MR. LE BLANC: Okay.
THE CHAIRMAN: We have dqne a lot of work on
the 434 corridor and we keep hearing about the
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retention pond and chain link fence and other
things.
Do you know Mr. McLemore's feeling on this?
I know how strong he is about keeping the 434
corridor with eye level beautification.
MR. LE BLANC: The plans you saw drafted up
was a result of Mr. McLemore meeting with
ContraVest people and Mr. Yeager and Mr. Jones
yesterday and his intent if at all possible is that
the city would take over the pond to prevent DOT
from putting its monstrosity there along 434 with
green vinyl fence and nothing in front of it.
THE CHAIRMAN:
I wouldn't think -- and I know
it is a little larger, but it seems to me and if I
remember correctly that Hess also has made some
arrangements to keep that beautification. So, I
would think this would be able to work out.
MR. LE BLANC: If we get control of the pond
it will work out. If we don't get control of the
pond DOT does what it wants as it usually does.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I see most of the
Commission -- in the minutes you gave us, most of
the decision was on the pond and that area. You
know, they seem to be pretty highly concerned about
it, also.
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MR. JONES:
This is a little off the subject
addressed, something you mentioned about the
legislation. You recall we agreed in the
Development Agreement that we would make the
sidewalk meander?
THE CHAIRMAN:
Ri gh t.
MR. JONES: Well, that got to DeLand and it
will be a straight sidewalk.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
MR. JONES: And there is nothing you can do
about it. That's what McLemore brought up
yesterday. He asked us would you rather deal with
the eity or DOT because you can't
this is kind
of a mutual agreement here that is a marriage that
You want it and we
will be good for both of us.
would like to have it, too.
THE CHAIRMAN: I know he was certainly
working in that area, you know and like you say we
can't tell them. Nobody is going to tell them what
to do.
Anything else? If not I will go into the
public input. I would like for you to give your
name and address for the record.
Mr. Jensen first, please.
MR. JENSEN: My name is Lee Jensen.
I live
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at 134 Nandina Terrace in Howell Creek Reserve.
I'm the Vice-president of the Board of Howell ereek
Reserve Association. We're still under builder
control, but I'm on the Board with the builder.
We have worked with Mr. Jones for several
months.
He has made many concession to the plans,
no doubt about that.
He's met with the homeowner's
once prior to the initial meeting with the
Commissioners and on October 5th the homeowner's
met one last time to go over the plans and some of
the issues. We have basically five issues,
probably, four issues after today.
The first one is we are still concerned with
the building located 39 feet within the property
line. That is pretty close to the homes that are
there and while the landscaping is supposed to be
mature landscaping we don't know -- and it's
supposed to be clustered we still cannot visually
tell how we would be blocked from that building.
Thirty-nine feet is not far from the residents that
back up along there. There is no trees or
anything. Right now it is clear, open between the
backyards and that building. So that was still a
concern.
The landscaping was a concern. We said we
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would agree with Wax Myrtles. We talked to a
landscaping professional and he thought, maybe,
there was an alternative and Mike I think is
Possibly we could still discus
keeping that open.
with him.
We had asked for the residents, there's about
five or six lots that backup to the complex.
We
asked for an eight foot wall in a letter -- this is
all in a letter to Mr. Jones, our concerns. We
were hoping to, maybe, go from six a foot wall to
eight foot wall, possibly.
Of course the wall will
be stucco.
That won't match with the red brick in
front of Eagle's Watch.
The new wall that we are
building along Howell Creek Reserve, our entrances
probably will not match with that wall that wall
that will be going up on the beautification.
there is a difference there.
There was discussion with the Commissioners
So
and we just put in the letter they had asked
they had asked if it's going to be a gated
community and we were hoping ourselves that.
Yes,
it is upscale.
There is supposed to be police
officers living in there once it is occupied but we
are wondering if it is really to going to be
upscale, if it could be a gated community.
So, it
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is residents only and we are a gated community
where we live, too.
And the last one I can't get an answer is the
lighting. We don't know the lighting in the
parking 10ts, how that will affect us. Supposed to
be shoebox type lighting.
I don't know how much
lighting is going to come over into the community.
And those are basically the concerns that we
addressed with Mr. Jones and he wrote us back
whether he can or can't do it. We just want to
make it known.
THE eHAIRMAN:
Is that the lighting in the
apartment complex or lighting in the Kash n'Karry
parking lot?
MR. JENSEN: Yeah, the parking lot lighting.
THE CHAIRMAN: In the apartment --
MR. JENSEN: Yeah, the parking lot light,
yes, on the other side of the retention pond. It
is that shoebox style lighting. I don't know if
that is down lighting. We still don't know what
kind of effect that is going to have.
THE eHAIRMAN: Okay. Anything else, sir?
MR. JENSEN: No, that is it.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Thank you very much,
appreciate you coming forward.
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MR. JONES: May I address some of those
2
things?
3
Certainly, sure, certainly you
THE CHAIRMAN:
4
can.
5
In the tree he is talking, about
MR. JONES:
6
and I didn't tell you, number one, the City doesn't
7
allow an eight foot wall. We litigated that
8
already.
You remember.
So, we can't do an eight
9
foot wall.
That is also against code and it costs
10
the City a couple hundred thousand dollars the last
11
time we got into that little deal if you remember
12
over Dunbar.
13
Secondly, the architect probably didn't take
14
into consideration this is fully, weekly maintained
15
area, the lawn maintenance crew which we agreed to
16
do the maintenance in the eity bond and, obviously,
17
we would be doing the maintenance.
So, you're
18
architects concern that the Wax Myrtles would die
19
out and thin out may be correct.
They may die out,
20
but because of the landscaping program we have, the
21
maintenance program we have they will be replaced.
22
That is part of keeping your business going.
You
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just don't let them die and not replace them.
24
He wasn't saying dying out.
He
MR. JENSEN:
25
said -- what he said is that at five years old, six
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years old then it gets thin and there would be less
2
dense and that's what he was saying. Well, it will
3
be dense for, maybe, four or five years as time
4
goes on it's less dense.
5
MR. JONES: Well and that is -- that's
6
correct if they are not maintained.
I mean I've
7
got two on my back porch.
They are pretty dense
8
because I maintain them, fertilize them.
The point
9
is that it's a maintained area and if a tree dies
10
in your backyard or thins out it's going to be
11
replaced.
We don't want an ugly tree there
12
either and we want something that serves the
13
purpose.
14
MR. JENSEN:
It's going to be a commercial
15
association would be maintained by --
16
It's not an association.
It is
MR. JONES:
17
maintained by the apartment complex and the people.
18
The security part of it there was some
19
concern voiced by the Commission and we don't want
20
a gated community.
I mean your community is gated
21
and it is open all the time.
So, we don't want a
22
gated community there.
It doesn't serve in the
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apartment complex, but we have committed to putting
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in uniform police officers. We provided them a
25
place to live and they provided us security.
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And on the lighting that was brought up, too,
before the Commission and I can't tell you anymore
than what we told them. Again, I sent you copy of
the type lighting and you're telling me it is down
lighting, but if you can go to one of these
complexes we have around town and check it.
I
invite you to do that. Where is the one we just
had up here the other -- down south -- which one?
A VOICE: Waterford Lakes.
MR. JONES: Did you go by and look at that?
MS. eAMPBELL: It is huge. It is three
stories. It is big.
MR. JONES: Okay.
I am just addressing those
particular points.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
Thank you.
Mr. Jones, while you are there where is
this -- maybe, we -- you can help me out.
Where is
this 39B?
MR. JONES:
This unit right here, sir.
This
unit here.
I want to show you -- well, we --
THE CHAIRMAN:
I know you mentioned that you
moved one.
I didn't want you to have it resolved
before I asked you about it.
MR. JONES:
Oh, I don't have the initial
one's.
That is here, but on the first plan that we
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had there was a pond here. It is -- you see this
building here, that building is considerably more
than 39 feet and that was the way we planned it,
designed it. You look up here at the pond, point
one nine acres is the size of that retention pond
which allowed us to move that building away from
the baseline. You look at the plan we have today,
size of the pond, it is twice that that's required
by your code and your Water Management District in
necessitating because we couldn't deal with DOT
oh, we considered this concern of these people
early on and would have left if there, but we --
you can't have everything.
It is their request that we move the
retention area back to this point and we did move
the retention area back where they wanted and this
retention area had to stay bigger which
necessitated the move of the lake. There is
certain setback on the retention. So, we
considered that and we set up the way they wanted
and we had to change it.
That was not our doing.
That building is actually 39
THE CHAIRMAN:
feet way from the
MR. JONES: Yes, sir. And I think their
concern -- and certainly appreciate it. All we can
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tell you is we are going to give you 12 foot high
2
Wax Myrtles.
If you have seen 12 foot high Wax
3
Myrtles they put out a pretty good bush.
I can't
4
tell you what we will -- are going to do at the end
5
of this building because we don't know what you can
6
buy, how fast you can get it in and how fast you're
7
going to grow, but I told them we will work with
8
them on the type trees they wanted there.
I don't
9
know what they want. We offered to give them fast
10
growing trees. Now, we can put the type called for
11
under the code.
They don't grown very fast and
12
they don't give much cover, or we can give them
13
we know the Wax Myrtles and also point out that at
14
the end of this complex -- on the end of the
15
complex which would be this end would be facing
16
their property it is only two stories.
So, we've
17
accommodated that concern.
We have a window on
18
this side, one on the other side but we have
19
accommodated the two story on this end.
20
THE CHAIRMAN:
Okay.
Thank you.
Okay.
21
Lori eampbell, please.
22
MS. CAMPBELL:
I'm Lori Campbell.
I live at
23
118 Nandina Terrace and I'm a resident of Howell
24
Creek Reserve.
First, I would like say I
25
appreciate Mike Jones and the developer bringing
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these plans initially to the commu~ity and givin~
us the opportunity to give some input.
However, some of the concessions that were
made were not because the community asked for it.
They were forced because DOT didn't allow them to
use a public retention pond.
It only made good
business sense to put a retention pond to buffer
us, otherwise he would have our whole neighborhood
here complaining about this.
This is my first experience with City
government. I do feel like you have been left out
of the loop if I might say that. I'm a little
disappointed that things aren't complete in the
plans they brought before you. I fee 1 like it --
they kind of wasted your time.
THE eHAIRMAN:
It is preliminary engineering.
We get an a lot of preliminary engineering.
to go through again.
I t has
MR. CAMPBELL:
Oh, it will come through you
again?
THE CHAIRMAN:
Doesn't come through us again.
It goes to the City Commission, but they are a
little more stringent than we are because we are
we follow the eity recommendations.
We have to
follow -- we cannot -- we certainly understand the
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input by the public, but we can't let those
feelings emotionally change us. We have to go on
what the law of the City is for Land Development
Codes and restrictions, you know signs and
variances.
They're the things that we look at.
MS. CAMPBELL: Well, I have some concern I
wanted to point out which our Vice-president
already mentioned the one 39 feet from the property
line. It is a three story building. Our
community, our houses range from 175 even up to 300
plus and we're putting in what is called a luxury
apartment complex, but the market will demand what
is considered luxury.
The rentals they are asking
is not what I consider luxury.
I do hope all of you would go down to
Waterford Lakes and look at this apartment complex
and think about it seriously before you make
approval for it to go on to the Commissioner and if
this is actually something that we want in
Tuskawilla which is an upscale community and we are
going to put in apartments that are going to bring
down property values not only in Howell Creek
Reserve, but in Chelsea Woods, all the homeowners
along Vistawilla.
but --
I can get off my soapbox on that
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THE CHAIRMAN: You could ventilate.
That is
2
why we are here.
3
I do have some direct
MS. CAMPBELL:
4
questions for Mike Jones or the architect I do want
5
The stucco wallar masonry
them to the answer.
6
type wall that they have planned along the
7
residential property which is the back end of
8
Courtney Springs. Right now they are saying
masonry. Will it be finished on both sides?
MS. VEAUDRY: Yes, it will.
MS. CAMPBELL: And the masonry wall near the
pool will be finished on both sides?
MR. KOLB: Yes, it will be.
9
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I would hope that the Planning
MS. CAMPBELL:
15
and Zoning Board would make a recommendation that
16
those two areas are brick rather than stucco.
They
17
are areas that do not -- aren't apparent I guess to
18
the apartment resident, but it does have impact on
19
our community. Our community has a brick wall in
20
the front and as we finish it out it will be brick
21
all the way around to our pool where right now we
22
have planned a stucco wall.
To make it more
23
uniform on our benefit that wall should also be
24
brick and it will be esthetically pleasing to
25
anyone driving down Vistawilla brick waIl verses a
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stucco wall.
I am concerned about the apartment lighting
and the overflow that was already brought up. If
that -- I don't know how -- if that will be
addressed here or not, but I would like you to know
that our community, especially the seven homeowners
that actually are adjacent to some of this
property. And I also just wanted to bring to your
attention that the plat of land that has the four
apartment buildings closest to the Howell Creek
Reserve eommunity is only like 340 feet wide; is
that correct, Mr. Kolb?
Mr. Kolb:
(Nods head.)
MS. CAMPBELL: And if you can visualize
putting four three story apartment buildings in
that smaIl piece of property I mean that is a lot
to put in that area and have it adjacent to the
residential community that is upscale and gated and
it will have a direct impact on our community.
Did they actually tell you the rent on the
apartments? Did they give you the information?
MR. STEPHENS: No.
MS. CAMPBELL: I do have that information if
you would be interested in knowing it just to let
you know what an upscale apartment or what they are
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calling upscale luxury apartment is.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
MS. CAMPBELL:
Three hundred fifty a month?
That's luxury to you? ut oh,
we are in trouble here.
MR. FERNANDEZ: A little humor there.
MS. CAMPBELL: I'm trying to think what else.
I want to answer you're question with regard to
Kash n'Karry.
I think it is a concern of the whole
community that Kash n'Karry is not one of your
better grocery stores.
It is owned by Food Lion.
I suggest that you do your research on Food Lion.
It was rumored that they were trying to get rid of
Kash n'Karry and I'd really be concerned that,
maybe, it won't last very 10ng, maybe not.
Do your
research.
Thank you for giving me your time,
appreciate it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very much and
again, like I said, where we are tied into would
be looking at a 10t of the technical issues. A lot
of your concerns as I know -- I was highly involved
with Tuskawilla many years ago and the Homeowners
Association. I can understand the upscale
neighborhood, a lot of things that can happen and,
of course, I see this a 10t different in the fact
that what it was going to be ten years ago and when
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you move into a development, gated community you
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don't realize apartments or other things are going
3
to go into those areas.
There are a lot of
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concerns you certainly ought to bring forth to the
5
eommission and make sure they are well aware of it
6
and I think they are well aware and like you heard
7
Mr. Jones say early between single and eight foot
8
walls there is requirements that we know and if
9
they meet those requirements as recommended by the
10
city to us, we look for other issues to further the
11
city to look into, but as far as the wall I'm sure
12
that whether it is brick or stucco as 10ng as it
13
meets the wind requirements and it is proper height
14
and so forth -- I remember those are things we look
15
I want you to understand that we are not
at a lot.
16
not hearing. We certainly are hearing you. We
17
want you to know that.
18
Mr. Romulo eastellano, please.
19
MR. CASTELLANO: My name is Romulo,
R-o-m-u-l-o, eastellano C-a-s-t-e-l-l-a-n-o.
I
live in 113 Nandina Terrace, Howell Creek Reserve.
22
I want to bring to your attention, obviously, you
23
have seen the plans, all the plans are very flat
and it's difficult to picture for people how it is
25
going to look from the outside.
There is a very
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good example not far from here on 417, toll road,
if you go down Red Bug you will see a mammoth size
apartment complex, three store building next to a
one story building which I don't know what it is
doing next to it, but I hear about esthetics when
they were looking for variance on the signage and
my question would be what about esthetics
concerning one story building against a three story
building which is mammoth in size.
I think if you have a chance please take your
time, take a look over there.
It has been said before and I want to bring
this again for the most part all of the residents
that live in Tuskawilla have chosen this community
as a place of residency.
They have investment of
their life investment is going to be their home and
they want to protect their prices somehow.
This community that is going to be developed,
this apartment complex plan is going to drop down
the prices as Lori Campbell said before and
something we will be interested to look
something that nobody has mentioned is how's the
apartment complex going to maintain their upscale
look.
Usually, as an apartment complex around the
eity with competitive price that attraction of
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apartment complexes will start decaying, soon
prices will fall and that type of people that would
be moving into the area would be decaying, as well.
I just want to finish saying that the city of
Winter Springs should belong to the residents and
that development should be according to what the
people want to see of their eity and it is up to
you, basically, to decide what is the best for us.
We hope we were not mistaken when we decided to
move here.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you, sir very much,
THE CHAIRMAN:
appreciate that.
Mr. Henry Goode.
MR. GOODE:
Good evening, my name is Henry
Goode.
I live at 120 Nandina Terrace and I have
one of the properties adjacent to the apartment
complex. And what I'd like to bring up, once
again, I would like to reiterate our concerns for
the esthetics of the project to make sure that --
not only for the houses that are adjacent to the
property, but everyone who has to go by the
properties will benefit by the landscaping that has
been proposed.
One of the things that we, unfortunately,
don't get to look at too much is -- I'd love to see
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the size of the apartment complex here. We get a
nice view
you can see the approximate size of
the car, but I would expect the apartment complex
This is many things we are
would be rather large.
concerned with.
As Romulo mentioned these are large
. f!
buildings, large buildings that's probably about
six feet in height.
That is about 12 feet in
height so we're starting off with 12 foot shrubs.
We have the majority of the building still sticking
up. So, we want to be sure when we're addressing
the landscape architecture that we're truly
addressing the full esthetics, not only that it is
pleasing and it is very well done.
However, we
would also like to know what will be clustered next
to the building, how much of the building will be
visible from adjacent streets.
Those are the
esthetic questions that trouble us continually and
even though we are very grateful they worked with
us, come to us and they have been working with us
all along still have a few of those issues to
address.
One, for example, is the fence along the
back, talk about a six foot masonry fence, but
there is currently a six foot wood fence back
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there.
I've heard that, well, perhaps, this would be
in place of that. Well, I'm not sure all of the
people along the fence would go along with that and
it certainly hasn't been discussed with all of the
property owners.
So, we do need to set their fence
back.
You have to maintain it.
If you are going
to have two fences parallel it has to be
maintained.
So how is that going to be addressed.
Again, I want to consider the esthetics.
Today is
an auspicious day. As many of us know we got our
tax assessment for our property today and so this
esthetics is what we are paying for in Tuskawilla.
We don't pay the cheapest taxes. We have great
schools and great city of Winter Springs I'm
contributing five hundred something dollars to this
year.
I want to make sure the City of Winter
Springs does take into consideration the esthetics
of my home directly behind one of these monsters as
one of my neighbors calls them.
So, let's take a
look at the whole issue before we do anything.
Thank you for your time.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Thank you, sir, appreciate
that very much.
I would like to repeat for the
people that gave public input because it is very
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important. You people
you want to express your
views. We hear them. We certainly understand and
that is what we are going to hear in the next few
minutes is what would or would not fall under the
city code and the rules and regulations, but I
think it is very important that you express your
concerns.
I know from the minutes some of you did and
some did not to the City Commission, but these are
elected officials.
We are volunteers, appointed
officials up here and we work with the City and
eity's recommendations. We get into discussions
with the eity on many occasions, but the eity keeps
us in line with what the regulations are and we
know the codes of the eity. As you heard Mr.
Fernandez -- he is an attorney by trade and he
certainly does a good and a fine job going through
all the issues that go before us and very few
things do slide by us that is in the code, but I
would recommend very highly that you make it
visible to the eity Commission when it goes back to
the eity eommission your circumstances.
I certainly feel what they are and I know
what they are and basically that is my little
scenario to you from the experience that I've had
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with issues -- have had to take on hand and
Mr. Stephen's is the President of the Association
on the Ranchland area.
So, he is familiar with a
lot of things that you people are and we are all
past Presidents of some type of homeowner's
association. We know these feelings and again we
want to express to you we highly understand what
the City brings to us and we look to the eity to
bring us the proper recommendation and we worked
with Mr. LeBlanc many years and he has done an
outstanding job working with us when we are
favorable and unfavorable to some of his requests.
Is there anything else from the Board you
would like to bring up at this time now that you
heard the public input?
Mr. Stephens?
MR. STEPHENS:
I have a question about the
concern about the fence making the part -- the
fence that is adjacent to Howell ereek Reserve if
they would consider making it brick to please you
people living in that area.
Is that a possibility?
MR. JONES: Well, as Mr. Goode said he put
five hundred dollars in the City last year. I'm
proud of him for doing that. We are fixing to put
a quarter of million in there. Why have some
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rights, too.
Give us back the buildings we will
put a complete brick fence around the whole thing.
You could only just squeeze so much blood out of
this turnip. You got it all.
It is economically
impossible for us to put a brick wall, just
impossible and maintain the other things you
require us to do and we -- if we had back that
other building and a half we have another story to
talk about. We have more money that we can play
and do.
We don't have that building.
We would
like to do it, too.
You know, as a homeowner involved with
Homeowner's Association I've been through this just
like you have many times and as you keep trying to
point out and these people don't understand it.
Some are new homes, first time home buyers, but I
like to tell a story and Bill and I used to live in
Altamonte Springs. We fought many battles
together. City Commission, we would run around
fighting developers coming in wanting to put in
eight or ten units per acre, apartment complexes.
We all showed up at city hall and raised so much
cane and wasn't a lot of those buildings, you ride
by the same place and there are 24 units sitting
there instead of the eight or ten we beat down.
We
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have been there. We are -- we know what we are
talking about. We are trying to offer you
something here that we think is good for the
community.
It is a high level apartment complex.
I'm sorry these people don't like Kash n'Karry and
Food Lion. We didn't pick our buyer.
I guess they
all sell Heinz Ketchup and Merida bread.
So it
doesn't make a difference what brand it is to me.
We are going to do the best we can and that
is we agreed and Mr. McLemore insisted everything
we see on the site plan will be put in the ground.
Every tree you count on there will be put in the
ground and that is what we will put on the
Developer's Agreement and we committed to that.
MR. STEPHENS:
I have another question about
the maintenance of -- Mr. Goode was concerned about
maintenance of the fence and since it's parallel
with some other fences that are there is that going
to be a problem?
MR. JONES:
Not for us, we are going to put a
wall up on our property.
MR. STEPHENS: Maintaining both sides of it,
will that be a problem?
MR. JONES: No, that is not a problem.
That
is done all the time and I don't know about Mr.
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Goode, but if I were one of those property owners
back there I would take down my wood fence that is
going to rot down and take advantage of having a
block wall there, but that is up to them.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. Chairman?
THE eHAIRMAN: Mr. Fernandez?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. Jones, in the minutes I'm
now reviewing from the City Commission meeting you
made certain representations into your
presentation and I just want to get on the record,
I don't know if all these people were there or not.
It is my understanding if you get your development
order that the parcel to the rear behind the
supermarket will be limited to professional offioe
development?
MR. JONES:
That's correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Are you proposing landscaping
around the pond and putting in the fountain.
MR. JONES:
That went out the door.
This is
a new plan.
That is not to say we won't put in the
fountain and it is just not included in the plan.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Okay. And you're going to
work with Tuskawilla Homeowner's Association as to
the reference, the location of the signage?
MR. JONES:
Nobody reminded me about that.
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Who was with your -- I told you -- forgot that.
Who was the former president. I talked to him. We
agreed to work out a piece of property.
THE CHAIRMAN:
He has moved.
He is gone.
MR. JONES:
Yeah, that's why I forgot this.
We did make that commitment and we would also
and I don't remember -- it would be the Eagle Watch
side and we were going to try to work --
He probably wanted it down the
THE eHAIRMAN:
middle.
MR. JONES: What did we tell you?
Come on up.
MR. WORLEY:
Greg Worley, W-o-r-l-e-y.
What
they are talking about, Eagles Watch comes into
play and, correct me if I'm wrong, there were two
sets of brick walls and we talked about with Hess
Mart.
There's a -- either dry or wet retention
pond here. We were discussing whether the wing
wall was going to go before that pond and then you
were. talking about bringing it in to behind the
wing wall
to be behind
MR. JONES:
MR. WORLEY:
Okay.
Behind the variance of where you
were going to jockey trying to work esthetically
between the parcel here and our parcel and then
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working within your guidelines between the wetlands
and Eagles Watch over here.
MR. JONES: We agreed to put in two wing
walls and you mentioned that awhile ago and it
didn't dawn on me.
That was part of the -- that
was brought up as part of that beautification for
their benefit.
THE eHAIRMAN: Vistawilla would be considered
under the beautification area.
MR. LE BLANe:
Hess would be building a wall.
There is a retention pond.
I don't remember if
it's wet or dry.
They are building a six foot
masonry wall behind the pond.
MR. MALAVE:
Let's make it a little more
clear. Right here is the -- if the end of the
lot -- this is empty space right in this area that
there is nothing there, right now in this area. We
were going to get the property for the wall. We're
not building the wall. We're giving the property,
the property to locate the wall here and give them
the easement to locate the second wing wall in this
location. We were giving them the location,
property and easements for that wall to be placed.
Hess is building the wall. You're talking about
the other wall, not the sign wall.
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THE eHAIRMAN:
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How do they get that in there?
Do they talk to Mr. Morris from Tuskawilla
Homeowners? He is the president now.
Discussion
like this is not going to go anywhere into the
record.
MR. LE BLANC:
The Commissioners would have
it, these minutes -- by the way -- I should be
getting a copy Friday, right, Mike?
MR. JONES:
Yes.
MR. LE BLANC: And the eommission would be
getting exactly what the young lady is doing, the
other young lady. She is going to type up
everything today, tonight, tomorrow night to have
it here Friday morning so we can present it to the
Commission with their package, verbatim minutes.
THE CHAIRMAN: You want to go right up with
this. You want to the move this right on in?
MR. LE BLANC: That is provided you people
approve it. I'm going to tell you what the
CClmmission said. We used to move it without a copy
of the minutes and now they want a copy of the
minutes and that is why they will have that prior.
THE eHAIRMAN:
So, she is going to do it
verbatim?
MR. LE BLANe:
She is doing it. Andrea got
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maybe; Omaybe I should, but in our -- I live in the
Tuskawilla area.
I live in a villa so it's a lot
tighter. I don't live in one of these three
hundred fifty thousand dollar homes. I live in the
tennis villas which isn't too far from Vistawilla.
It's about three minutes to get to the icecream
place when they build it in the Hess.
I have already driven it a few times so it's
not my area.
I live in a very tight community.
And we have Castle Park which is in the Tuskawilla
area.
We had a lot of concerns about Castle Park
and they have kept upscale communities in
Tuskawilla with eastle Park so that is something to
look at.
They look like beautiful apartments.
I
don't know all the full details and, of course, I
don't live 39 feet away from them either.
I want
you to understand that, but I also know it
certainly looks like they put a lot of effort and
time and looks like they are trying to negotiate
with the public.
And I can tell you one thing ten years ago it
was a different story and Mr. Jones and Mr.
McLemore, the City Manager at the present time had
has strong feeling for the people and City of
Winter Springs and he certainly does everything in
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the city's behalf to help the people.
So, your
concerns should go to th people and go to this
C'::lmmission whether you have to meet with Mr. Jones
and the eity for all these different types of
i~:&sues .
It can be resolved, not 100% for
everybody. We all know that.
I think there are
things we have to do and I think that is the
direction I would give you. What I look at is the
variances that come up, myself personally and so
does our Board and the gentlemen up here, I can
tell you everyone of us are volunteers. We were
appointed to these jobs by the eity eommission and
we try to do the best we can and so we certainly
have you people in heart and we certainly know what
we are supposed to do and try to work with the
developers because we want what we have here.
is an upscale community.
Mr. Fernandez?
It
MR. FERNANDEZ:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
MR. FERNANDEZ: I would like the ask of our
staff representatives here insofar as any variances
are concerned is this a matter that the P and Z
Board or the Local Planning Agency should be making
reGommendation to the City Commissioner, or is this
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a matter that should be addressed to the Variance
Board? Do why have a Variance Board?
MR. LE BLANC: No, it's -- if you look at
your development agreements on Section 2458 of the
New Development Guidelines it talks about may
vary standards -- Commission may vary standards of
this Ordinance including building perimeter
setbacks, parking standards, signs and other
standards.
MR. FERNANDEZ: All right.
Where
I'm sorry.
was that?
MR. LE BLANe: Section 20-458 and page 20.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Mr. LeBlanc, are you, in
fact, asking this Board to make recommendations?
MR. LE BLANC:
NO, sir.
I just
I'm not.
brought it to your attention.
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I would note for the record
after having had a chance to review the eity
Co,mmission meeting after two unsuccessful motions
that a consensus of the Commission was to move this
project forward.
So, the eity Commission who has more latitude
and more discretion. As a matter of fact, our
minutes even indicate that the City Attorney
indicated that the eommission has -- does have some
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discretion in looking at the development order, but
at least the city Attorney at that point considered
it to be a conditional use under Chapter 20 which
needs to be applied for and brought before the City
Commission and as I see it our function being less
general and more restrictive with less discretion
to determine whether or not it meets the Settleme~t
Agreement as a result of a Court order, the Vested
Rights Agreement, the Technical Review Committee or
staff recommendation saying that it does at least
insofar as certain changes to be presented in the
final engineering plan, that it does meet the
technical requirements of our City codes.
I think that a representative from the
Tuskawilla area ought to have the right to make the
initial motion to address this matter to pass it on
to the City Commission either with or without our
rl~commendation and since we have two members from
Tuskawilla I think they ought to make the motion,
take the heat, too.
She said that ain't going to
THE CHAIRMAN:
be her.
Again, like I say I certainly spent a lot of
time on this.
I did not just come here.
I know
Mr. Fernandez spends an awful lot of time.
I had
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these things laying all over the garage. I retired
from Westinghouse six months about six months
ago so I have had a lot of time to look at this. I
can be a real stickler.
I went through the retention pond and had
concerns about 434 and tell you the truth that --
there is only two or three places when you go to
get down to it that you find out there was a
community tucked in back in there.
I wasn't aware
of it that well until this afternoon.
I saw it and
I really got concerned and I thought, oh, boy,
we're going to have a packed house tonight because
it is a concern of many people.
Mr. Goode mentioned about the trees and
you're going to still see these apartments and I
understand that and again to do our job and do it
properly I don't see issues that we could turn it
down on, basically.
I think that it is the old
story again.
You have a torch to carry.
You have
to carry it. You have to carry it to the
Commissioners. I think the city has done an
outstanding job and it sounds like they are still
de,ing a job.
It rattles you at first think until you get
used to it, but as Mr. LeBlanc said today we went
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through this last one.
I spent the whole day.
We
had these over a week and a half, the information
Mr. LeBlanc has gotten to us. We reviewed it.
You've seen us shifting papers around. We looked
through the old Tuskawilla PUD agreements. We
looked at minutes and we didn't just come in here
and just do this and we do this.
Based on what has been presented to us by the
City, if I can find your page, Mr. LeBlanc
MR. LE BLANC:
I just have one thing to add
to that recommendation.
THE CHAIRMAN:
I didn't recommend anything.
MR. LE BLANe: You said that's what you're
looking for, the recommendation.
I have one thing
to add to that and that is contingent upon the City
engineer's letter of October 20th where he says it
can proceed forward, but the corrections have to be
done on the final engineering, just the one page
letter memo from the City.
THE CHAIRMAN:
You have all the attachments,
you mean the October 20th, October 12th, 24th?
MR. LE BLANe: This memo here. October 20th.
From the City engineer.
THE CHAIRMAN:
MR. LE BLANe:
Okay, right.
Just add that
one to the recommendation if you're going to use
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it.
THE CHAIRMAN: Okay.
I will make a motion
that the Planning Zoning Board accept the Staff
R'Elview Board recommending that we favorably forward
these plans to the City Commission for their action
and included in that would be the October 20th,
1998 City Engineering memo to the land developin~
coordinator.
Do I hear a second?
They are going to dump this on Tuskawilla all
the way and these people can come after us.
Try it again, do I hear a second?
MR. STEPHENS: Could you repeat the motion,
please.
THE CHAIRMAN: Make a motion that the
Planning and Zoning Board favorably forward the
plans to the City Commission for their action ana
included
MR. FERNANDEZ: Contingent upon --
THE CHAIRMAN: And in compliance with the
October 20th, 1998 City Engineering memo to the
Land Development Coordinator.
MR. STEPHENS: I second.
THE CHAIRMAN: Did Mr. Stephens second that?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Yes, he did.
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THE CHAIRMAN: Roll call.
MR. FERNANDEZ: Could we get some discussion?
THE CHAIRMAN: Discussion, go ahead.
MR. FERNANDEZ: As far as specific findings
of fact to support this motion I think the Chair
has indicated that we have reviewed the Settlement
Agreement, the Vested Rights Permit, the reports
from staff, the finding of the City Attorney that
apartments are compatible and, apparently,
discretionary within the eity Commission's
viewpoint and that this project does meet the
technical requirements for design of our current
codes with the understanding that part of the
settlement agreement indicated that since that
settlement agreement occurred in 1990 and since the
owner of this property had applied for certain
rights to develop it before -- before we developed
our comprehensive code and adopted it in 1992, that
none of the changes after the 1990 Agreement would
apply to this property other than the current
d'9sign standards which we have already received
input from staff have been met and based on those
findings of fact and without any recommendations on
variances and I'll leave that up to the City
Commission to address in the Developer Order that I
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would be in favor of recommending that this
favorably be approved contingent upon the developer
complying with the requirements of the city
Engineer's letter of October 20th, '98.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions or
ceJmmen ts?
MR. FERNANDEZ:
I believe this encompasses
both parcels, Kash n'Karry and the apartment
complex?
MR. LE BLANC: Correct.
MR. FERNANDEZ: We don't need to address them
separately.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Roll call, Rosanne?
MS. KARR:
Pass.
THE CHAIRMAN: You're present. Are you going
to decline voting? She is going to really play it
safe. You're present you got to vote.
MS. KARR: Aye.
THE eLERK:
Carl Stephens, Jr?
MR. STEPHENS: Aye.
THE CLERK:
Tom Brown.
THE eHAIRMAN: Aye.
THE CLERK:
Bill Fernandez?
MR. FERNANDEZ: Very affirmative, yes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to thank the
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public this evening.
I hope you pursue -- pursue
your issues.
And I would
I would like to thank
the gentlemen, Mr. Jones. I thank you for your
time. Mr. LeBlanc, I would like to thank you and
everyone else.
(Whereupon, the meeting was concluded at 9:00
0' clock. )
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1
eERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
STATE OF FLORIDA
3 COUNTY OF SEMINOLE
4 I, Frances R. Dirienzo, Certified Shorthand
5 Reporter, CMR, certify that I was authorized to and did
6 stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and
7 that the transcript is a true and complete record of my
8 stenographic notes.
9
I further certify that I am not a relative,
11 employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties,
12 nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties'
13
attorney or counsel connected
14 with the action, nor am I financially interested in the
15 action.
16
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Dated this the 29th day of October, 1998.
FRANCES R. DIRIENZO, CSR,
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a'~ay this time.
THE CHAIRMAN:
Is there anything else by the
B()ard to bring up at this time.
Is there anyone
that would like to make a comment?
My name is David Owji, O-w-j-i.
I live in
104 Shellflower Cove and I'm a new resident.
During the discussion there was a question toward
Mr. Jones, someone asking if he would be able to
helve a gated communi ty for the apartment complex
and Mr. Jones answered that it wouldn't be
pJ:actical.
practical?
I would like to elaborate why it is not
MR. JONES: Well, it is not a residential
unit like yours. We have 200 people going and
cClming.
It is just not practical to have a gated
cc,mmunity in an apartment complex that size, number
one. And, number two, there is one -- only one
entrance to this community and so not like you have
three or four entrances and trying to
we have
internal security and we don't feel like the gate
is a practical thing to put up.
Therefore, the
residents
MR. OWJI: Well, contrary to what you're
saying I come from Virginia.
ga. ted apartmen t communi ties.
We see more and more
I'm not sure if your
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reason is a good reason.
MR. JONES: Well, I'm sorry.
you a better reason.
MR. OWJI: Well, it is something up to the
I can't give
Commission.
THE CHAIRMAN:
For what it is worth Tuscany
Place, they probably have two hundred and some and
of course they are an older development and they
put up gated communities. They did that on their
own later on, ten years later, but they have gated
communities.
MR. JONES: Now, we have lot of gated
communities.
It also depends on the character and
quality of the community, itself.
THE CHAIRMAN:
sUlggesting that.
He is not out of line in
MR. JONES:
It was suggested before and
you're not the first time it has come up, just
something we are not agreeable to doing.
THE CHAIRMAN:
But I understand your point,
too, take a dollar from here and have to -- I
understand that.
The people that actually live in
there have done that, have put up their own gate.
And one of the other things I have strong
feelings for the public, I shouldn't have that
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