HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2002 12 09 City Commission Regular Minutes
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 9, 2002
I. CALL TO ORDER
The Regular Meeting of December 9, 2002 of the City Commission was called to order
by Mayor John F. Bush at 6:30 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal
Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708).
ROLL CALL:
Mayor John F. Bush, present
Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present
Commissioner Michael S. Blake, arrived at 6:34 p.m.
Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr., present
Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present
Commissioner David W. McLeod, present
City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present
City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present
After a moment of silence, the Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
During a brief discussion of Agenda Changes, Mayor Bush announced that regarding
Regular Agenda Item "B," "We are going to have a Meeting, a week from tonight to
address this one Agenda Item by itself, the Villagio development on State Road 434."
Mayor Bush also complimented City Manager Ronald W. McLemore for having notices
delivered to the affected citizens. Mayor Bush added that this Special Meeting would be
held on Monday, December 16,2002 at 6:30 p.m.
Mayor Bush then noted that pertaining to Regular Agenda Item "'D,' I got a call today
and no representative from the Little League could be present, therefore they asked that it
be rescheduled at a future Meeting, so - the first Meeting in January would be the time
for that and we need to let them know." Additionally, Mayor Bush pointed out that
regarding "Agenda Item J, concerning Mr. Thompson and the removal of a tree - he has
decided not to remove the tree and therefore has asked - this Item be removed as well."
Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr. asked if the Agenda Item concerning the Cathcart
contract, Regular Agenda Item '0' could be moved "To the top of the Regular Agenda."
There were no objections by the City Commission.
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PRESENT A nONS
A. Office Of The City Manager
Presentation On Midge Flies By Mr. Richard Lobinske, With The University Of
Florida Mid Florida Research Center.
Mr. Richard J. Lobinske presented the City Commission with information on Midge flies,
including remarks about possible heath problems and scientific tests that have been
conducted.
Commissioner Michael S. Blake arrived at 6:34 p.m.
Discussion.
II. PUBLI C INPUT
Mr. Mervin Warner, 673 Keuka Court, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke on the results of
the recent election; welcomed Mayor Bush and Commissioner Sally McGinnis; spoke of
the Tuscawilla Homeowner's Association; and regarding the Cathcart project, Mr.
Warner asked about payments to the contractor.
Mr. George Seeley, 211 Birch Terrace, Winter Springs, Florida: commented about Mr.
Chris Carson being an employee of the Parks and Recreation Department and an Elected
Official of the City of Debary, and said a similar issue came up a few years ago and said
that "We got a ruling from the Attorney General from the State of Florida that nobody
could hold an elected position in one jurisdiction while a paid employee of another."
City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese stated, "I will go back and look at the archives and
see if we have any letter to that effect." Attorney Garganese added, "My recollection is
there is not a problem in that respect, I will be happy to go back and double check - I will
report to the City Commission at your next Meeting.
III. CONSENT
CONSENT
A. Office Of The City Clerk
Approval Of The November 25, 2002 City Commission Regular Meeting Minutes.
CONSENT
B. Informational Services Department
Requests That The Commission Approve The Revised Computer Use Policy.
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CONSENT
C. Public Works Department
Requesting A Supplemental Authorization For The Contractual Agreement For The
Contractual Agreement For The Construction Of Hickory Grove Park Road And
Tuskawilla Road (Main Street) Roadway Improvements.
Discussion.
CONSENT
D. Public Works Department
Requesting Authorization To "Piggy-Back" Off The Seminole County Contract
A/B-30210l/GG For Construction Of The Intersection Signalization System
Improvements At State Road 434 And Wagner's Curve With Traffic Control
Devices, Inc.
CONSENT
E. Office Of The Mayor
Resolution Of The City Of Winter Springs, Florida, Expressing Appreciation To
Mayor PaulP. Partyka For His Numerous Contributions In His Capacity Of Mayor
To The City Commission And The Citizens Of The City Of Winter Springs.
CONSENT
F. Office Of The Mayor
Resolution Of The City Of Winter Springs, Florida, Expressing Appreciation To
Commissioner Cindy Gennell For Her Numerous Contributions In Her Capacity As
A City Commissioner To The City Of Winter Springs.
"MOTION TO APPROVE CONSENT AGENDA." MOTION BY
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER.
DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
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IV. INFORMATIONAL
INFORMATIONAL
A. Public Works Department
Advising The City Commission Of The Status Of Various Capital Improvement
Projects.
Discussion.
INFORMATIONAL
B. Community Development Department
Advising The City Commission Of The Status Of Various Current Planning
Projects.
Commissioner Robert S. Miller stated, "It was brought to my attention that the JDC
Calhoun Item on page 2 might not be up to date and also the 434 Villagio - the website,
evidently it does not accurately reflect where we are right now, so I think Staff needs to
look at that to make sure that whatever is current is reflected on the website - I can get
with you later on and get the details for you. Mayor Bush suggested to the City Manager
that "We Might want to put a disclaimer on the website, because it might be very difficult
to keep what we see here and the website in sync." Mayor Bush further added, "Some
kind of a disclaimer to that effect so people don't treat the web as the official document."
"MOTION TO APPROVE" INFORMATIONAL AGENDA. MOTION BY
COMMISSIONER MILLER. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
.:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING REGULAR AGENDA ITEM WAS
DISCUSSED NEXT, AS DOCUMENTED. .:..:.
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VI. REGULAR
REGULAR
O. Office Of The City Manager
Requesting The City Commission To Review And Approve A Settlement Agreement
With Cathcart Contracting Company Finalizing Cathcart's Construction Contract
With The City In The Amount Of $1,977,257.75 And Other Terms And Conditions
Discussed Herein As Recommended By The Tuscawilla Lighting And Beautification
District Board.
Manager McLemore introduced this Agenda Item.
With discussion, Commissioner Blake referred to the list and said that some items were
not noted. Commissioner Blake pointed out that the "Winter Springs Boulevard entrance
that is on the far east side, not to be confused with the Seneca Boulevard entrance, but I
believe there is some ironwork there that doesn't exist." Commissioner Blake thought
there might be one additional problem and added, "This being beside the Seneca
Boulevard entrance where they have that iron work Kip [Lockcuff]?" Manager
McLemore then said, "We will check it and make sure."
With further discussion, Commissioner Martinez stated, "The only way I would vote for
this - to approve this Item tonight is if I get assurances from the City Manager and all
parties concerned that all of these items are pending, including fixing up that entrance at
Shetland. "
Tape I /Side B
Regarding payments and the contract, Commissioner Martinez added, "I would like to
make sure that you do not pay him whatever monies you owe him until this punch list is
taken care of."
Discussion.
Mayor Bush said that "Commissioner Martinez's comments about being assured that the
punch list is a good one, so maybe the Manager could keep the Commission informed
when that comes in and make sure that Commissioner Martinez of course knows about
it. "
"MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM '0.'" MOTION BY COMMISSIONER
MILLER. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION.
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COMMISSIONER BLAKE STATED, "I WOULD THINK THAT WE WOULD
BE WILLING TO PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN HERE THAT CHANGES THE
DATE." FURTHER, COMMISSIONER BLAKE SUGGESTED, " I THINK WE
NEED TO PUT IT IN HERE THAT IT HAS TO BE COMPLETED BY OUR
NEXT REGULARL Y SCHEDULED COMMISSION MEETING OR THE
MANAGER AND THE CONTRACTOR HAVE TO COME BACK BEFORE US
TO EXPLAIN 'WHY AND THAT WOULD BE AN AMENDED MOTION."
AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED.
DISCUSSION.
VOTE: (ON THE AMENDMENT)
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
MOTION CARRlED.
COMMISSIONER DAVID "V. McLEOD STATED FOR THE RECORD THAT
"THE SAVINGS 'VOULD BE FOR THE RESIDENTS OF TUSCA WILLA."
MAYOR BUSH CLARIFIED THAT "THE MOTION THEN IS TO APPROVE
THE CONTRACT AS PRESENTED WITH THE COMPLETION DATE BEING
BY THE FIRST REGULAR COMMISSION MEETING IN JANUARY OF 2003."
VOTE: (ON THE MAIN MOTION, AS AMENDED)
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
Commissioner Martinez left the dais at 7:30p.m.
.:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING PUBLIC HEARINGS AGENDA
ITEMS WAS DISCUSSED NEXT AS NOTED. .:. .:.
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v. PUBLIC HEARINGS
PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. Office Of The City Manager
Requesting The City Commission To Conduct A Public Hearing On First Reading
Of Ordinance Number 2002-33 Amending Section 2-42. Of The City Code,
Providing For The Appointment Of Persons With Prior Felony Convictions
Subsequent To The Restoration Of Their Civil Rights.
Manager McLemore spoke briefly on this Agenda Item.
"I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE READ ORDINANCE 2002-
33 BY 'TITLE' ONLY." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED
BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: NAY
COMMISSIONER MILLER: NAY
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: NOT PRESENT FOR VOTE
MOTION DID NOT CARRY.
Commissioner Matiinez retumed to the dais at 7:32 p.m.
NOTE: Commissioner Martinez said of/the record that his vote was "No. "
Attomey Garganese read Ordinance 2002-33 in its entirety to those in attendance.
Commissioner Blake pointed out that "Number (5) that was changed - where we also talk
about a plea of nolo contendere - subsection (c) - the question is if somebody enters a
plea of nolo contendere, do they have their rights removed?" Attorney Garganese said he
would check on this. Commissioner Blake stated, "Some time between now and the
Second Reading, if you couldjust make sure we don't leave somebody out there."
Mayor Bush opened the 'Public Input" portion of this Agenda Item.
Mr. Paul Leckinger, 1304 Winter Springs Boulevard, Winter Springs, Florida:
commented on felons and suggested the Commission not do this.
Mr. George Seeley, 211 Birch Terrace, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke in opposition to
this Ordinance and remarked about felons.
The "Public Input" portion of this Agenda Item was e/osed.
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Discussion.
Commissioner Martinez stated that the Ordinance should have "Different wording and if
you are going to make exclusions, they should be listed on there."
"I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION WE MOVE - ORDINANCE 2002-33 TO
A SECOND ADOPTION HEARING, THE FIRST MEETING OF JANUARY
2003." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER McLEOD. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: NAY
COMMISSIONER MILLER: NAY
MOTION CARRIED.
VI. REGULAR
REGULAR
A. Office Of The City Manager
Requesting The Commission To Receive A Report From The Florida's Turnpike
Enterprise On The Results Of The Toll Rebate Incentive Program (TRIP), A One-
Year Pilot Program To Reduce Tolls On State Road 417 Between State Road 434
And Red Bug Road.
Mr. Joey D. Gordon, Regional Planning Administrator, Turnpike Enterprise, MP 263,
Turkey Lake Service Plaza, Post Office Box 613069, Ocoee, Florida; and Mr. Sa ad
Shbaklo, Senior Transportation Engineer, Turnpike Enterprise, MP 263, Turkey Lake
Service Plaza, Post Office Box 613069, Ocoee. Florida: presented the results of the year-
long study on the Seminole Expressway Toll Rebate Incentive Program (TRIP).
Tape 2/Side A
Commissioner Mi lIer spoke of the "Incredible" costs associated with the TRIP [Toll
Rebate Incentive Program] Program and stated, "I also would like to point out that the
Expressway is a first class operation, but sometimes I wonder about what you are really
trying to do because you are putting an incredible investment into things that I think are
driving the cost of that roadway to a point where the main arteries through the City - not
this City but through Orlando - there are going to be problems forever - I am just making
a public observation about the cost of your roadway."
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Next, Commissioner Miller pointed out that "To go from Sanford down to the south end
- is somewhere around eight dollars ($8.00). Yet I can drive all the way down to Miami
and the other tollway for about the same price but instead of going eighteen (18) miles, I
am going ISO miles. Your comment about the thing not really working out, I think
18,000 trips a month is significant. You were reducing it to a daily number - just
marginalizing it with a little increase of 200 vehicles. So anyone from now on who,
which I by the way went out and bought a SunPass so you can tell me it has been
permanently - report it to your higher ups that this guy does not need to have one from
now on or it did not click so I get my $200.00 fine going through - but for people who
have to pay seventy-five cents to go from Winter Springs [State Road] 434-on ramp
down to Oviedo, I think is really a high cost because on a per mile basis it is incredible, it
really is to go one (1) exit for seventy-five cents. So, if you have spent this $400,000.00
and it is already into place, it really intrigues me why you have run this all through the
management system and you have decided it really does not work so it really is not
worthwhile maintaining."
Furthermore, Commissioner Miller stated, "My personal opinion, it is worth maintaining
for no other reason Sir, than that trip probably is not worth what it is being charged at
right now. So for you to abandon all this infrastructure that you have put in, and go back
to the seventy-five cents, I think it is going to make you all a lot more money than you
are making right now, but I think it is a disservice to the driving public. I enjoy using the
roadway but I find it - much more than what I expect at your toll booth arrangements.
They must cost hundreds of million of dollars just for the toll booth systems that you put
up. And then you have the tollbooth in Winter Springs manned all the time but you do
not tell anybody when. So I believe you have got a lot of people working for you that are
- I would be curious about your manpower costs as a percentage of your total annual -
total operations cost. I understand you are still spooling up to have this thing all done so ."
you need trained people on board. But, I am very unhappy with this and I hope
Congressman Mica is able to convert that to a Federal road one of these days very soon
because a lot of people I know do not use it because of the cost. They find it incredibly
expensive compared to most other roadways in the United States. If you go the whole
length of New York - for I think - twelve dollars ($12.00). You can go the whole length
of the New Jersey Turnpike for about eight dollars ($8.00). You can go all the way to
Miami on the toll road for I think it is seven ($7.00) or eight dollars ($8.00) - and to go
eighteen (18) miles on your roadway is over eight dollars ($8.00)."
Commissioner Miller added, "My problem with you is I think you have reached the
wrong conclusion regarding [State Road] 434 to Red Bug Road. I think you ought to just
leave it the way it is. Yon have all the equipment - if you spent $400,000.00 on this, to
abandon that investment for 200 trips a day when you have already got 18,000 going
through a month - I think you ought to leave it the way it is."
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Next, Commissioner Miller stated, "If! can go all the way from the north side of Sanford
down to the south side of the attractions for about eight dollars ($8.00), on an eighteen
(18) mile run, that is about twenty cents a mile I think. So if I am going to pay seventy-
five cents to go one (1) exit between [State Road] 434 and Red Bug Road, it seems to me
that I might have some cause to challenge your overall statement that you are going to
lose your Federal Bond support because you are in effect - reaping a windfall for that
particular segment of the road."
Commissioner Martinez addressed Mr. Gordon and stated, "Based on my observation of
your presentation, I noticed that you placed a lot of emphasis in your promotion on the
sale of E-P ASS and SunPass - reduction in prices, and I think that that would be a
negative to any citizen who wanted to save forty-four cents to go into a bigger expense at
the time. And maybe you agree with me or you will not but I think that the reason why
you had such low participation during your pilot project was because of your efforts to
sell SunPass and E-P ASS at the same time."
Further discussion.
Commissioner Martinez departed the dais at 8:34 p.m.
Commissioner Blake asked, "Bond Indenture requires you to charge twelve and a half
cents a mile?" Ivlr. Gordon responded, "That is the tolling structure that the bonds are
based on - the full length of the Seminole Expressway." Commissioner Blake asked,
"And if I got on at [State Road] 434 and I wanted to cross the bridge, and got off at the
first [County Road] 427 exit - just north of the bridge, how far of a distance would that
be?" Mr. Gordon asked, "Mileage wise?" Commissioner Blake stated, "Yes Sir. Do you
know the exit numbers because are not they numbered by miles?" Mr. Gordon stated,
"More or less." Commissioner Blake stated, "Okay, so what are the two (2) exit
numbers?" Mr. Gordon said, "1 probably do in my binder but generally speaking it is
based on twelve and a half cents per mile so when you make that movement, it should be
something close to twelve and a half cents per mile."
Next, Commissioner Blake then asked, "Where in your eighteen (18) mile system is it
possible for somebody to be charged less than twelve and a half cents a mile? From
which point to \vhich point?" Mr. Gordon stated, "Less than twelve and a half cents a
mile?" Commissioner Blake stated, "Yes Sir. You said that the twelve and a half cents is
an average over the entire length of the system. So my question is since we know that it
is more than the twelve and a half cents a mile in some places, case in point, the segment
that we discussed or the main item of discussion here this evening, and I would certainly
suggest to you that from Exit 43, which is the [State Road] 434, to four (4) miles, five (5)
miles max, at the [County Road] 427 Exit which I am certain you have been on, to pay a
dollar and a half ($1.50) for that is probably in excess of twelve and a half cents a mile.
So we know that there are segments that cost more than twelve and a half cents a mile.
My question is in order for the Indenture to work out, where do you charge less than
twelve and a half cents a mile? How is it possible for me to get on your roadway at any
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point and get off without making an illegal u-turn at less than twelve and a half cents a
mile?" Mr. Gordon said, "I would have to sit down and calculate the distances and
calculate the tolls and see. I cannot tell." Commissioner Blake inquired, "Is there a
segment?" Mr. Gordon said, "I do not know. I would have to sit down and calculate it
out. I honestly do not know."
Commissioner Martinez returned to the dais at 8:37 p.m.
Commissioner Blake asked, "How do you reconcile the fact that you have in place a
system that charges twelve and a half cents a mile between the Red Bug Road Exit 41,
and the [State Road] 434 Exit 43? Which is the accurate amount? How can you come
here before us and tell us you need to raise that toll from thirty-one cents up to seventy-
five cents over that segment in order to meet the Bond Indenture?" Mr. Gordon stated,
"The way the structure is comprised is one (1) of the ramps has plazas, one (1) does not.
It depends on where you get on the system and where you get off the system as to what
you're tolled." Commissioner Blake stated, "You told us earlier that you have apparatus
in place on north ramps of Red Bug Road exit, one (1) southbound, one (1) northbound,
that is a SunPass reader. So if 1 get on at Red Bug Road and I am heading north, I go
through a SunPass reader, and if I get off at [State Road] 434 northbound, I go through
another SunPass reader so you are read both times and that is in place today. And if I
were to get on at [State Road] 434 and head south, I would go through a SunPass reader
getting on - and when T get off at Red Bug Road southbound, I go through a reader again.
So I do not understand your statement a minute ago that said there is no reader at those
ramps." Mr. Gordon said, "As paI1 of the pilot study there are. But there were not - I
was referring to prior to the pilot study." Commissioner Blake stated, "But they are there
now at whatever cost, whether it be $400,000.00 it would have just been easier just to
give everybody five dollars and forty-seven cents ($5.47) over the year that went through
one of those things."
Commissioner Blake stated further, "If somebody gets on today at Red Bug Road and
heads north and gets off at the next exit, [State Road] 434, they will be charged
approximately twelve and a half cents a mile; which is what the Bond Indenture
requires." Mr. Shbaklo stated, "Yes." Commissioner Blake then said, ''Now if
somebody gets on at Red Bug Road going north and they do not have E-P ASS, they do
not pay to get on, they do not go through a transponder reader because they do not have a
transponder, they do but there is no effect, and when they get off they pay seventy-five
cents which is well in excess of the twelve and a half cents a mile. Which means that
even in its cunent configuration, you are earning more than twelve and a half cents a mile
for on average the vehicles that get on at Red Bug Road and get off at [State Road] 434
or visa versa."
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Commissioner Blake then stated, "I would suggest to you that it is very difficult for us to
accept an answer 0 f we need to end this program and begin overcharging folks who drive
this segment of roadway because only 200 cars a day are removed from this one (1)
intersection down in downtown Oviedo. That is not a reason to raise tolls from twelve
and a half cents a mile rate, which is what is guaranteed on the Bond Indentures, up to a
rate that is more than double that."
Discussion.
Commissioner Blake inquired of Mr. Shbaklo, "What percentage of your vehicles get on
at 1-4 and travel the entire eighteen (18) mile length or go the other way and travel the
entire eighteen (18) mi Ie length that is in Seminole County?" Mr. Shbaklo said, "I do not
have that exact number or percent of traffic that..." Commissioner Blake said, ".. .But
you guys do know that number." Mr. Shbaklo responded, "We know how many people
get on. We do not know the originations and destinations of people because we do not
track them." Commissioner Blake stated, "But if somebody - clearly that is not the case
because if somebody..." Mr. Shbaklo stated, "...We know where people get on and
where they get off but we do not track the origin and destination of the same vehicle."
Commissioner Blake asked, "Do you have any transponder readers at the County line, on
the south side?" Mr. Shbaklo stated, "I think the most southern one would be at Aloma
[Avenue]." Commissioner Blake stated, "Interesting. I bet you do have that data."
Commissioner Blake inquired, "Who actually is the individual or the Board that made the
decision, apparently already, to end this program?" Mr. Gordon stated, "Management, I
do not know that it was an individual. It is not myself or not Saad [Shbaklo], it is a much
higher level than us." Commissioner Blake asked, "Well, is it someone in the County or
is it somebody at the Florida Turnpike Authority?" Mr. Gordon said, "It is the
Turnpike's decision." Commissioner Blake asked, "Well, is it a Board type decision, or
is it made by some Department Head of some level, or is it made by the Secretary of
Transportation, made by the Governor?" Mr. Gordon said, "I would say it is a
conglomeration of people in our Finance Department who primarily work with the
Bonds, and the revenue transactions, and the monies, and upper management."
With further discussion, Commissioner Blake said to Manager McLemore, "I think we
need to take a little bit more further action on this and appeal to wherever the decision
making level is on this to find out how they can change the rate that they charge on the
roadway here from twelve and a half cents a mile to thirty cents a mile when the Bond
indenture only requires twelve and a half cents a mile and they have not been able to
demonstrate any place on the road where they have deficient collections that needs to be
made up by an over collection within this segment."
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Commissioner Miller stated, "Yes, at the end I think you should follow-up and ask if we
are all in agreement on this because I am in agreement with what Commissioner Blake
said. I think we need to go forward and back to the issue of the per mile - eighteen (18)
miles and you have said about eight dollars ($8.00) will go from one end to the other..."
Mr. Shbaklo asked, ".. .On the Seminole Expressway?" Commissioner Miller said, "On
the Greenway going from 1-4 down to 1-4, on the east side. That is approximately
eighteen (18) miles." Mr. Shbaklo said, "Eighteen (18) miles, Commissioner is from 1-4
on the north end to the Aloma [Avenue] or University Drive exit and that is the portion
that the Turnpike owns. South of that is owned by the Orange County Expressway
Authority."
Next, Commissioner Miller suggested that "I would like to see you take back to your
folks the point that I think you need to take a very serious look at your toll charges;
because based on what you have said, I do not think that most people are aware of the
economics at work here, and I am really not sure what is going on to be honest with you."
Furthermore, Commissioner Miller stated, "If you are charging that much, there must be
some reason for it. If you do not have a good reason for it, I think you need to take a
serious look at reevaluating the rates that you charge along the roadway because to try
and make up on one (1) section for a loss on the other, if in fact it is overkill on that one
(1) section where you are not really doing very well - again I think there is room for
significant examination here and lhope you will do that."
Commissioner Miller stated further, "1 have seen a lot of tollbooths in my life and yours
are - they must have been designed by someone who is building the Pentagon - at the
beginning of World War II because they are incredible structures, they are solid poured
concrete. They will be there for 10,000 years - in my opinion they are incredible
overkill. If that is helping to drive up my cost to drive down your road to Oviedo - and
pay seventy-five cents because of those, and that is above and beyond your - per mile -
need for your Bond Indentures. Again, I think this is something you have brought on
yourselves. I understand you have to make money but this is part of the reason why that
roadway is not doing what everyone hoped it would do when it was created which was to
take the traffic out of the center of the City and send it around. A lot of people will not
use your road because it is so expensive for them. If they are making $30,000.00 a year
and they go to the attractions every day to work, they are paying - eighty dollars ($80.00)
a week - that is a lot of money - for your service."
Next, Commissioner McLeod stated, "You have in here where you are comparing this
thing based on your percentage use of the SunPass and E-P ASS, do you have any idea of
all the amount of people that is using that is actually paying the cash. I know it is forty
percent (40%) of the people, but is it forty percent (40%) of the trips coming in and out of
there or forty percent (40%) of those trips - twenty percent (20%) - that is just Oviedo,
Winter Springs travel? Or is twenty percent (20%) of those, forty percent (40%) for the
whole Expressway?" Mr. Shbaklo said, "From the cash side?" Commissioner McLeod
stated, "Yes - so you could have a larger volume percentage that is truly using it."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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PAGE 14 OF 29
Commissioner McLeod then remarked that "There are a lot of people today that do not
have credit cards, your E-P ASS and SunPass is basically a credit card, they work with
cash or they work with a check book. So I am not sure how true a relationship - when
you say it is a two percent (2%) gain of usage that is bypassing the City - maybe it is
truly an eight (8) or ten percent (10%) bypass because there may be more people that are
using cash versus the E-P ASS. If that is the only part of your Expressway that these
people happen to use on a regular basis, they may not bother to get your pass." Mr.
Shbaklo said, "And that is one (I) issue Commissioner we were looking at, is how much
of an enticement was the TRIP [Toll Rebate Incentive Program] Program in getting
people to join the SunPass/E-P ASS Program. And what we had found is that not a lot of
people did. If they initially did not have a SunPass or E-P ASS transponder, and they
used cash, it is because they do not use the facility on a daily basis, they use it maybe
once (1) every month, and they did not bother getting a SunPass or E-PASS."
Commissioner McLeod then pointed out that "You have a certain amount of the general
public that just \vill not - ever join your E-P ASS or SunPass. And I think part of the
problem is you do not know what that is. You do not know what the quantity that
becomes today."
Mr. Shbaklo said, "In the one (1) year period of TRIP [Toll Rebate Incentive Program],
we have tracked those people because we have visually - by license plate survey - so we
observed the people that get on at [State Road] 434 and we track those people whether
they exited at Red Bug [Road] or not. If they exited, we said those people would get,
they got on at [State Road] 434 and exited at Red Bug Lake Road, they qualified for the
discount if they had SunPass. If they did not show up in our sample that means the
people had destinations south or north of [State Road] 434." Commissioner McLeod
asked, "Isn't thar part of your forty percent (40%) of the people?" Mr. Shbaklo said,
"The number that we show - fifty percent (50%) participation, initial participation in
SunPass and E-P ASS, were those that had SunPass and E-P ASS, and they were making
the trip between Red Bug [Road] and [State Road] 434 initially. So if they got on at
[State Road] 434 and they went south all the way to Aloma [Avenue], they would not be
tracked by us as part of the forty percent (40%) or the fifty percent (50%) initial
participation." Commissioner McLeod asked, "The original fifty percent (50%) was - by
the time of your program, you had sixty percent (60%). Is that correct?" Mr. Shbaklo
said, "Correct." Commissioner McLeod then said, "So that had nothing to do with the
amount of people with license plates?"
Mr. Shbaklo responded, "The reason we did the license plates is because we wanted to
see how much growth we..." Commissioner McLeod said, "...I understand. What was
that percentage? I do not think. you ever gave that to us." Mr. Shbaklo said, "How many
of the people getting on the ramps were SunPass or E-PASS?" Commissioner McLeod
clarified, "Without it. You showed us SunPass/E-P ASS, you never showed us license
plates. You did mention it - I do remember." Mr. Shbaklo said, "One (1) of those ramps,
if! recall correctly, we had like 6,000 daily getting on at one of those, either [State Road]
434 or Red Bug [Road]. I can not remember which one. One of them had 6,000 total
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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PAGE 15 OF 29
traffic including SunPass and cash customers, and that number went to 6,800 I believe.
So that includes both cash and SunPass customers as well."
Commissioner Blake stated, "I 'vvould like the Commission to direct the City Manager to
communicate with whoever the decision-making body on this item is - the Turnpike
Authority, the State, FDOT [Florida Department of Transportation] or whatever it
happens to be, and make a plea for these tolls on this segment of the road to be retained at
the twelve and a half cents per mile as is required by the Bond Indentures." Mayor Bush
asked Members of the Commission, "Do we have consensus on that." Commissioner
Martinez stated, "] am in agreement." No other Members of the City Commission stated
any opposition.
Manager McLemore stated, "1 think what all this is going to is what is the methodology
by which the cost is distributed through the system. And in particularly why such a short
portion would carry such a high amount of cost. I do not think it really is twelve and a
half cents. There may be a twelve and a half cent rule of thumb but there cannot be in the
way it was cost allocated to this short section. What I would like to see is how you build
up your allocation cost for a segment. That is what I would be interested in. So can you
explain to me how you did that on this short section to come out with this cost? I do not
know that I want to know that tonight because I think it is a fairly lengthy discussion."
Tape 2/Side B
Furthermore, Manager McLemore stated, "The other thing is, as I understand, there was
an effort or at least some discussion to try to federalize this section. And I am sure that
you are all in favor of it, your Board was all in favor of it, but it did not happen - I would
like a little more information on that too because the idea is as I thought it was, that if you
did federalize it and you did not have the cost administration and all that kind of stuff,
you really would motivate people to get off of 1-4 and go around. And as I understand
also, it might have been a far better use of dollars to have done that rather than continue
investing through local bonds or transit bonds. And are you aware of that or can you
share any of that information with us as to why that decision was not pursued further?
And do not give me the bond one because I do not buy that one. I have been doing bonds
too long. There are all kinds of ways to - restructure debt. So again, if you do not know
just say you do not know and we can, if the Commission is agreeable with it, I would like
to pass that question along to your higher authorities also." Mr. Shbaklo said, "The only
thing I could add to this is that sixty percent (60%) of the revenues needed to build or
construct Seminole Expressway came from the Turnpike - bonds. And the remaining
forty percent (40%) came from a collection of funds, either Federal funds, local funds,
SBA funds."Manager McLemore reiterated, "I would really like to see that explanation
for this link. I think again for the Commission, that is the only way you are ever going to
get down to what is driving this."
Discussion.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 16 OF 29
In response to Manager McLemore's question, Mr. Shbaklo stated, "We do not really
specify the toll on a segment by segment basis. That is not the way we do it. We specify
the toll on average for the entire length of the facility. That is the example I gave for the
eighteen (18) miles on the Seminole Expressway. A dollar fifty ($1.50) is the toll which
equates to approximately twelve and a half cents per mile. Now it so happens that some
of those Sh0l1 movements fall higher than twelve and a half cents per mile. But typically
we do not set our tolls on a segment by segment basis. We set it on an entire facility
length first." Manager McLemore responded, "I understand that but something caused
this anomaly in your system and I would sure like to try to understand it. That is what
this toll the last hour has been all about." Mr. Shbaklo said, "I think there are two (2)
reasons for that. One (1) reason is the rounding of tolls. We round the tolls to the nearest
quarter so that people do not have to pay twelve cents - we round them to the quarter.
And that is one (1) issue why some people pay more than others. The other reason is the
location of our interchanges - they are not equally spaced and they are dispersed
throughout so some people again will pay more than others. So these two (2) factors will
primarily be the reason why some people pay more than others."
Manager McLemore then said, "Well, I think the allocation of that capital cost relative to
the number of interchanges is something I understand, I can understand that. But
somewhere in there 1 am assuming that - do you distribute your administration and
overhead on a per mile basis, or is it on a cost of capital basis? What basis is it done? Is
it a system wiele basis?" Mr. Shbaklo answered, "It is system wide..." Manager
McLemore said, ".. .Okay, then why don't you do the capital that way?" Mr. Shbaklo
said, "Because some facilities have - the Bonds..." Manager McLemore said, "...1
understand but if you look at a lIsage basis of who is using, the type of users, you could
find all ways for allocating costs based on users as well as miles. So I think there are
different ways to do methodologies, I am just trying to understand how it was applied in
this link. That is all I am asking, I think that is all the Commission is asking is how did
you get to that number."
"IF THE COMMISSION WILL AGREE, I THINK THE CITY MANAGER
SHOULD CRAFT THIS LETTER AND INCLUDE ALL THE POINTS WHICH
WE HAVE RAISED AND HE HAS RAISED, AND WE WILL WAIT THEIR
RESPONSE." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER McLEOD. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNlS: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
Mayor Bush called a recess at 8:55 p.m.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9,2002
PAGE 17 OF 29
The Meeting reconvened at 9:00 p.m.
REVISED
REGULAR
B. Community Development Department
Presents To Tile City Commission, The Preliminary And Final Engineering Site Plan
For Tile State Road 434 Retail Center Located On The West Side Of The Stone Gable
Mixed Use Community And Tile South Side Of State Road 434.
(TIlis Agenda Item Will Not Be Discussed At This Meeting, But Will Be Discussed At
A Special Meeting To Be Held On Monday, December 16,2002.)
As mentioned earlier in the Meeting, this Agenda Item will be discussed on Monday,
December 16, 2002 at 6:30 p.m.
REGULAR
C. Board Of Trustees (Pension Board)
Requesting The City Commission Approve Resolution 2002-39 Merging The Money
Purchase Plan Into The Defined Benefit Plan And Amending The Defined Benefit
Plan.
Ms. Louise Frangoul, Finance Department Director introduced this Agenda Item, and the
City's Consultant Mr. Donald Chapman.
Mr. Donald D. Chapman, E.A., Retirement Plan Specialists, Inc., Post Office Box
622857, Oviedo, Florida: addressed the City Commission and reviewed information
related to this Agenda Item.
With discussion, Commissioner Blake suggested, "I would like to see a twenty (20) year
rate on that within the Plan document, that would probably be fairly easy to fix prior to
adoption."
Further discussion ensued on the "Lump sum payment issue - the $3,500.00 cap on that."
Mr. Chapman stated, "What this is is if somebody should terminate and have a small
vested benefit. . ." Commissioner Blake added, "These would be with contributions made
after October 1, 2000, not the amounts rolled in." Mr. Chapman stated, "Let's talk about
just the present value of benefit - somebody is entitled to. You have a benefit that may
be twenty dollars ($20.00) a month. Say it is worth, present value when we do our
actuarial calculations, that benefit is worth $2,000.00. Okay. What we say is that person
can take that as a lump sum, the full $2,000.00..." Commissioner Blake said, ".. .At the
option of the beneficiary..." Mr. Chapman added, "...At the option of - right."
Commissioner Blake stated, "They are not required to take it out." Mr. Chapman
continued, "Yes, it is a minimum sum, everyone who has a lump sum less than
$3,500.00, they are automatically paid a..." Commissioner Blake said, ".. . Cashed
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 18 OF 29
out..." Mr. Chapman said, "A lump sum, you can cash them out - the purpose of that is-
you don't want to keep those records for all those years."
Further, Mr. Chapman then pointed out, "If somebody were over $3,500.00, then their
benefit is vested and they receive it in the form of a monthly benefit." Commissioner
Blake then stated, "If somebody leaves, their separation of service, and they were here
prior to October 1 SI 2001, and including the balances prior to the plan date, the value of
those dollars plus the value that has accrued and that they are vested in after the Plan date
equals a present value of $4,500.00 - so it doesn't automatically cash out." Mr.
Chapman agreed and said, "It doesn't automatically cash out." Commissioner Blake then
commented that "They exercised their right to take out their pre-2000 cash contributions
that they have made, they take that out and suddenly now the present value of the
remaining benefit is only $2,000.00. Is it automatically cashed out at that point?" Mr.
Chapman responded, "I could see that being read that it could be, potentially if they..."
Commissioner Blake said, "00.1 don't want cans - it is either we do or we don't." Mr.
Chapman clarified, "Right now it would not be cashed out, I guess it would be held there,
because the full benefit was greater than..." Commissioner Blake then inquired, ".. .And
what is the windo'vv of time that they are able to cash out that portion that was rolled over
prior to 2000?" Mr. Chapman stated, "They make the election at the time they terminate
and they will be given the forms, they make the choices. 00" Commissioner Blake then
asked, "...Is it a one time election?" Mr. Chapman stated, "Usually it is, yes, at that
time." Commissioner Blake then said, "So, at that time, they would give up any current
cash rights to - those monies..." Mr. Chapman clarified, "It would be paid out in the
f0l111 of a benefit when they reach normal retirement age. They have the option at the
time they decide to terminate, and take - at that point, whether they want to take their
money or have it paid out later."
Commissioner Blake then stated, "We need to make sure this document states that and
we. need to correct it if that is the case to be certain that if somebody does take that
election to take out their pre-2000 pre-document contributions and then that leaves us a
balance less than the $3,500.00 - that it is an automatic cash-out at that time also.
Because if we don't do that we leave it in there and how I read it when I went through
here, it is not required at that point in time - it is going to leave us potentially with some
of these small balances out there that we really don't want to spend the time and money
trying to administer over thirty (30) years, if that is what it is." Mr. Chapman stated,
"And that is something - we would need to take up with the Attorneys."
Discussion.
Commissioner Blake inquired of Mr. Chapman, "On the thirty (30) year issue, thirty (30)
year cap - if somebody works here for thirty-five (35) years and twenty (20) of those
years were at the two percent (2%) level prior to the date of the plan, and fifteen (15)
years were afterwards, which thiliy (30) years count for a three percent (3%), versus two
percent (2%)."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE I90F29
Further, Commissioner Blake asked, "Is it your first thirty (30) years?" Mr. Chapman
responded, "The first thirty (30) years." Commissioner Blake then said, "And that is
stated clearly in here, in the document? I do not see it, and I would like to have a clear
reference of that." Additionally, Commissioner Blake said, "I would hope that we would
also at some point in time have a conversation about the status of the Plan, I understand
the Pension Board [Board of Trustees] - it goes before them - but I am specifically
concemed about the formula that we are currently using and the under funded status of
the Plan." Commissioner Blake added, "I think we need to have a Meeting that might go
over the current status, where we can look at potential funding requirements that we
might have going forward to bring that plan back into line." Mr. Chapman stated, "And
that will be forthcoming, within the next month."
Tape 3/Side A
"I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE ITEM 'C.'"
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. MAYOR BUSH CLARIFIED THE
MOTION AS "MOTION TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 2002-39 AMENDING
THE CITY OF \VINTER SPRINGS' RETIREMENT PLAN." SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. DISCUSSION.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE INQUIRED OF MANAGER McLEMORE, "IF THE
PLAN WERE TO BE AMENDED OR CHANGED PRIOR TO ADOPTION AS I
HA VE REQUESTED THAT IT BE AMENDED, WHERE YOU WOULD BE
REQUIRED TO PAY FOR THE FULL - PRESENT VALUE OF THE BENEFITS
THAT WOULD BE VESTED TO YOU, WHAT WOULD THE DOLLAR
AMOUNT BE REQUIRED FOR YOU TO PAY IN." DISCUSSION ENSUED ON
WHETHER THE PLAN SHOULD BE ADOPTED WITHOUT KNOWING THE
DOLLAR FIGURE BEING DISCUSSED.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE ADDED, "THERE ARE SEVERAL PARTS IN HERE
THAT NEED TO BE AMENDED, TO ADOPT THE PLAN AS IT IS WRITTEN
WOULD BE A MISTAKE AND WOULD COST THE CITY BIG DOLLARS
POTENTIALLY. WAIT TWO (2) MORE WEEKS, OR ONE MORE MONTH,
WHATEVER IT IS, COME BACK WITH THE INFORMATION AND COME
BACK WITH THE REVISIONS THAT MAKE THE PLAN WHAT WE NEED IT
TO BE."
"MY AMENDMENT TO IT WOULD BE TO POSTPONE THE DECISION
UNTIL JANUARY." AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION BY COMMISSIONER
MILLER. MAYOR BUSH POINTED OUT THAT "THE MOTION IS TO
POSTPONE THIS TO THE FIRST MEETING IN JANUARY." SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9,2002
PAGE 20 OF 29
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
REGULAR
D. Parks And Recreation Department
Requests That The City Commission Considers And Rejects The Winter Springs
Little League Proposal Regarding Concession Operations At Central Winds Park
And Authorize Staff To Go To Private Sector Again With A R.F.P.
As noted under Agenda Changes earlier in the Meeting, Mayor Bush stated that "The
Little League called today and indicated that - no representatives could be here tonight
and therefore asked this be postponed, so it will be on the January" Meeting Agenda.
REGULAR
E. Community Development Department
Recommends Approval Of A Request For A Variance By M.A. Garcia From
Sections 9-147., 9-157., 9-221., And 9-223. Of The City Code Of Ordinances.
Mr. John Baker, AICP, Current Planning Coordinator, Community Development
Department presented his introductory comments.
Mr. John Sikes, Civil Engineer, Blount Sikes & Associates, 3032 Mercy Drive, Orlando,
Florida: addressed the Commission.
Discussion.
"MOTION TO APPROVE PROVIDING THAT BEFORE APPROVAL AND
FINAL ENGINEERING THOSE NEIGHBORS IN OAK FOREST DO GIVE
THEIR APPROV AL." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 21 OF 29
Mr. Baker stated, "Mr. Mayor, could I ask for clarification about the fifty (50) versus 30
foot (30')?" Mayor Bush stated, ''No, not right now - they voted on accepting the
V ariance and that is all. If you think that they have made a decision to change something
in the Code - you can come back with it later."
REGULAR
F. Community Development Department
Recommends The City Commission Deny A Request For A Variance By Paul Starks
From Section 6-2. And 6-84. Of The City Code Of Ordinances.
Mr. Baker briefly introduced this Agenda Item.
Mr. Paul B. Starks, 484 Wild Fox Drive, Casselberry, Florida: addressed the
Commission on his request for approval.
Discussion ensued on barns and accessory buildings.
Tape 3/Side B
Further discussion.
"I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO POSTPONE THIS MATTER
UNTIL AFTER THE WORKSHOP AND A NEW ORDINANCE; AND IF THE
DECISION OF THE COMMISSION IS AT THE TIME THAT THIS SHOULD BE
ALLOWED, THAT THE CITY REIMBURSE MR. STARKS FOR THE FEES HE
P AID IN SEARCH OF A VARIANCE." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER
MARTINEZ. SECONDED. DISCUSSION
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NAY
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
Commissioner Blake stated, "Point of Order" and spoke of the Ordinance and whether
the applicant needed to come back.
Commissioner McLeod pointed out that the date of the Workshop on Accessory
Buildings will be January 21,2003.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 22 OF 29
REGULAR
G. Community Development Department
Recommends The City Commission Hear The Request For A Variance By Louis
And Betty Ann Ogus From Sections 6-2. And 20-103. Of The City Code Of
Ordinances, For 668 White Oak Court, Tuscawilla Unit 9, Lot 54.
Mr. Baker presented his introductory comments and Staff s recommendation for denial.
Mr. and Mrs. Louis R. and Betty Ann Ogus, 668 White Oak Court, Winter Springs,
Florida: provided information to the City Commission, and displayed photographs
regarding their proposed addition.
Discussion.
Mr. Ogus read a letter from Lisa and Randy Torrence and said he would leave this and
other letters with the City.
Further discussion.
"I MAKE A MOTION THAT - THE CITY COMMISSION OF WINTER
SPRINGS MAKES A FINDING THAT THE SIX (6) CASES OF HARDSHIP,
ETCETERAS, DO EXIST AND GRANT THE VARIANCE." MOTION BY
COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
"I MAKE A MOTION TO EXTEND THE MEETING UP TO ONE (1) HOUR."
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: NAY
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: NAY
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 23 OF 29
REGULAR
H. Office Of The City Manager
Requesting The City Commission To Approve A Pilot Project With Seminole
County To Develop A Seamless Occupational License And Tax System.
Manager McLemore opened discussion on this Agenda Item.
Discussion.
Commissioner Miller asked, "How many do we issue a year?" Manager McLemore
said, "We don't have a lot, but the County does - we wouldn't get rebated for ours, we
would get rebated for theirs and how many they issue in the City, but I could ascertain."
Further discussion.
"I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ENTER INTO A JOINT
COLLECTION AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY BUT THAT WE NOT
ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT FOR A STUDY BY GSG." MOTION BY
COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND.
"I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DO NOT APPROVE ITEM 'H.'" MOTION BY
COMMISSIONER McLEOD. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER.
DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NAY
COMMISSIONER McLEOD: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
Commissioner McLeod departed the Meeting at 11:10 p.m.
REGULAR
I. Office Of The City Manager
Requesting The City Commission Approve An Interlocal Agreement With Seminole
County For The Administration Of The I-Cent Local Option Sales Tax Revenues
And Related Letter Of Understanding.
Manager McLemore briefly spoke on this Agenda Item.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9,2002
PAGE 24 OF 29
"MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM 'I.'" MOTION BY COMMISSIONER
MARTINEZ. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
REGULAR
J. Community Development Department - Arbor Division
Recommends The City Commission Consider The Request Of Mr. Bill Thompson
To Remove 1 Specimen Loblolly Pine, Approximately 23 Inches In Diameter.
Mayor Bush again noted that this Agenda Item had been removed from this Agenda.
REGULAR
K. Office Of The City Clerk
Requests That Commissioner Michael S. Blake And Commissioner David W.
McLeod Each Make An Appointment/Reappointment To The Board Of Trustees
(Pension Plan). The Current Two (2) Board Of Trustees (Pension Plan) Members
Who Have Not Been Reappointed As Of This Date - Their Terms Of Office Will Be
Expiring In January 2003.
Conmlissioner Blake stated, "I am going to delay this Appointment until the first Meeting
in January." Mayor Bush added, "Since Commissioner McLeod has left, we will delay
his too."
Tape 4/Sid~ ^
REGULAR
L. Office Of The City Manager
Requesting The Mayor And City Commission To Determine The Next City Of
Winter Springs Representative And Alternate Representative To The Council Of
Local Governments In Seminole County (CALNO).
Discussion ensued by Mayor Bush and Members of the City Commission about
attendance by the Mayor and/or Members of the City Commission at various
Intergovernmental functions. Mayor Bush suggested, "If the Commissioners would like
to make a list of those things they would like to serve on, that are "Intergovernmental," I
will be glad to work it out with them that they have the opportunity to do that. I just
don't want to be accused of not fulfilling my job as outlined in the Charter."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
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CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 25 OF 29
Further, Mayor Bush stated, "I am perfectly willing to share this responsibility with those
who wish to get involved in some of these activities.
Mayor Bush advised the City Commission that "What I had planned to do is that - any
meeting I attend representing the City, I will write up a little summary of it - I will put the
Agenda with the Clerk."
Commissioner Martinez stated, "If I may suggest, I think that since they are bringing up
the Charter, I think you ought to review all the appointments and designations to all these
governmental entities and decide which ones you want, and if you don't want any and
somebody else has it, well it is okay to let them have it but it will be your decision."
"I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPOINT MAYOR JOHN BUSH
TO CALNO [COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE
COUNTY] AND APPOINT SALLY McGINNIS AS THE ALTERNATE."
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. MAYOR BUSH THEN STATED,
"IF THE CLERK COULD GET A LIST OF ALL OF THE THINGS THEN WE
COULD PROCEED WITH WHAT I MENTIONED." SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER MILLER. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONR MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
REGULAI{
M. Office Of The City Manager
Recommends The City Commission Consider Nominating The Next Deputy Mayor
As Stipulated In The Charter Of The City Of Winter Springs, Consistent With
Actions In The Past.
Mayor Bush briefly noted the role of Deputy Mayor.
"I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPOINT COMMISSIONER ROBERT
MILLER AS DEPUTY MAYOR." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. DISCUSSION.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9,2002
PAGE 26 OF 29
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
REGULAR
N. Not Used.
ADD-ON
REGULAR
P. Office Of The City Manager
Requesting The City Commission To Give Authority To Staff To Approve Sign
Permits In The Town Center Requiring Only Copy And Lettering Review.
Manager McLemore briefly introduced this Agenda Item.
"MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM 'P.'" MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION.
VOTE:
COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE
MOTION CARRIED.
Attorney Garganese stated for the record, "Just to memorialize what the C011m1ission
approved, I am going to prepare a very simple Resolution for your signature."
VII. REPORTS
REPORTS
A. City Attorney - Anthony A. Garganese, Esquire
No Report.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9,2002
PAGE 27 OF 29
REPORTS
B. City Manager - Ronald W. McLemore
No Report.
REPORTS
C. City Clerk - Andrea Lorenzo-Luaces
City Clerk Lorenzo-Luaces asked if the City Commission wished to have new
photographs taken. Commissioner Miller stated, "Yes." Regarding a consensus of the
City Commission, Mayor Bush stated, "They all agree."
REPORTS
D. Commission Seat Two - Michael S. Blake
Commissioner Blake stated, "I want to extend my appreciation to Andrea [Lorenzo-
Luaces, City Clerk] and her Staff for a tremendous job on the Inaugural Ceremonies -
there were absolutely wonderful."
Secondly, Commissioner Blake noted that "We have a Teacher of the year here at Winter
Springs High School - Kelly Thompson, who just happens to be the daughter of the
Mayor. I think it is a tremendous accomplishment, and I would like to see an appropriate
Resolution acknowledging her accomplishments and contribution to the City."
REPORTS
E. Commission Seat Three - Edward Martinez, Jr.
Commissioner Mat1inez thanked Manager McLemore for "The quick action on cleaning
up that corner on Tuskawilla and [State Road] 434."
Next, Commissioner Martinez stated, "I want to congratulate all of you who are receiving
- appointments tonight."
REPORTS
F. Commission Seat Four - Sally McGinnis
Commissioner McGinnis remarked, "I also was going to commend Andrea [Lorenzo-
Luaces, City Clerk] and her Staff - I thought the Inauguration was just first class."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 28 OF 29
REPORTS
G. Commission Seat Five - Dayid W. McLeod
No Report as Commissioner McLeod had already departed.
.:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING REPORTS WERE GIVEN AS
DOCUMENTED. .:. .:.
VII. REPORTS
REPORTS
I. Office Of The Mayor - John F. Bush
Mayor Bush stated, "Again Andrea [Lorenzo-Luaces, City Clerk], it was great - it
[Inaugural Ceremonies] exceeded all expectations, believe me and I was very well
pleased - and your Staff - and you really deserve all the accolades that we could give
you. "
Mayor Bush then mentioned that he would be very busy over the next three (3) months,
and that he would not be able to attend the Workshop on Accessory Buildings scheduled
for January 21 S\ 2003. Further, Mayor Bush stated, "I will give the [City] Clerk my
schedule so that she knows."
Mayor Bush spoke about possible problems with some seated on the dais being able to
see the City Manager properly and suggested that the City Attorney and City Manager
switch seats. With discussion, the City Commission felt that the current seating
arrangements should not be changed.
REPOlns
H. Commission Seat One - Robert S. Miller
Commissioner Miller inquired, "Where are we on our issue with Oviedo? Is that going to
come back to us in the year 2003?" Attorney Garganese stated, "Everything has been
filed. "
Secondly, Commissioner Miller stated, "We had had some discussions earlier this year
about the looking into the appointment of a Code Enforcement Hearing Officer - where
are we on that now?" Attorney Garganese stated, "We were working on the Ordinance in
my office - and will bring it to the Commission for consideration, probably sometime in
January."
Commissioner Miller complimented Mayor Bush for his first Meeting.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Bush stated, "Do we have a Motion to Adjourn?"
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING - DECEMBER 9, 2002
PAGE 29 OF 29
"SO MOVED." MOTION. SECONDED. DISCUSSION. MAYOR BUSH
STATED, "ALL IN FAVOR." EVERYONE PRESENT STATED "AYE."
MOTION CARRIED.
Mayor Bush adjourned the Meeting at 11 :40 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
1..PP,E()VED:
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NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the January 13,2003 Regular City Commission Meeting.