HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 06 09 Public Input Referenced by Mike JonesDate: June 9, 2008
The following was referenced during Public
Input by Mr. Mike Jones at the June 9, 2008
City Commission Regular Meeting.
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` 1 it to the one that's on the other street.
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2 Until -°
3 COMMISSIONER KREB: Okay.
4 DEPUTY MAYOR: Was your light on?
5 COMMISSIONER BRO~PN: No.
6 DEPUTY MAYOR: Commissioner Miller's light ~~
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7 is on.
8 COMMISSIONER MILLER: It so~ands to me we've
9 already gone beyond the chain link fence.
10 There's a wooden fence there right now. I don't
11 know why we're discussing a chain link fence.
12 And the applicant, evidently, from what was
/""~. 13 just said a few moments ago, is no~+ a question
14 whether the fence that's there right now, which
15 is a sixteen foot stockade fence, you really
16 can't tell whether or not it's an entrance or
17 not, but they are willing to reduce it to twelve
18 fast, end they are considering a sliding fence
19 instead of oae that opens out or in. So I don't
20 know -- I don't know why we're talking about the
21 chain link fence anymore. It seems to ms we've
22 already moved beyond that.
23 And the other question that comes to my
24 mind, talking about access points, if aomsbody
~ 25 wants to go, you know, have a tree cut down in
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1 their back yard and there is room for a
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2 commercial vehicle to get in there and carry in
3 their equipment, load,all the dead trees on their
4 equipment and then drive back out off the lot,
5 they are no longer using the accepted drive~-ay,
6 they ar• obviously going into this through
7 another access in their property. We alloy that,
g though, don't we? We do. I'll just make the
9 comment, we do.
10 MR. MCLEMORE: We don't allow that.
11 COMMISSIONER MILLER: Well, I'm sorry, Ron.
12 If somebody wants to qo in the back of my
~'"~. 13 property, remove a tree, do I have to request a
14 permit from the City for a Budget tree vehicle to
15 enter the sid• of my property? Because I'm on a
16 corner. I have to get a permit for that vehicle
17 to come is through my back yard to remove a tree.
18 MR. MCLEMORE: You have to get a permit for
lg tree removal.
20 COMMISSIONER MILLER: For tree removal, yes.
21 MR. MCLEMORL: Right.
22 COMMISSIONER MILLER: If I follow your
23 logic, I will also have to get a permit for an
24 access point because you're actually allowing
~ 25 vehicles to come in through another point into my
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property which is not my driveway.
So in this case, it seems to me like what we
really need to talk about is if the gentleman is
willing to come back with a request to put a
sliding fence in there, and it meets the
aesthetic review, will the City Manager approve
it? And I think that's what we ought to discuss
tonight. If -- If they come back with a sliding
fence proposal and it's aesthetically pleasing
and doesn't change the aesthetic concepts of the
. or appearance of the neighborhood, he
should approve it. That's, I think, where we're
at right now. We're not at a chain link fence
anymore, that's already gone.
Now they want to put in a wooden fence, I
assume, which would be stockade, which would just
slide into the opening. Aad if they want to use
that as an access point of their property from
time to time, I think we're past that right now.
I don't think. I -- That's where I'm at
right now. I think if they. want to resubmit an
application to put in a sliding fence entrance
gate and it's aesthetically in compliance with
the aesthetic review of the appearance of the
neighborhood, I think it ought to be approved. I
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1 think there has been some mistakes done here, and
2 I just don't see us going back and trying to
3 rectify some things that were done that shouldn't
4 have happened.
5 DEPUTY MAYOR: Commissioner Brown, you're
6 next.
7 COMMISSIONER BROWN: Commissioner Rrebs'
8 light is on.
9 COMMISSIONER RREBS: I area going to answer
10 your statement, Commissioner Miller, that the
11 reason I was speaking about what I was speaking
12 about was because the issue was the permit, and
13 that did involve the fence. And I absolutely
14 agree with you, we made a mistake. And I think
15 we have to -- to probably do what you suggest, is
16 talk about this fence that they are willing. .
17 they are proposing. And I don't know if
18 tonight's the night to do that, or if they bring
19 -- I guess you said no, they have to bring
20 forward a permit, seek a permit; is that right?
21 MR. GARGANESE: Right.
22 Yeah, the only issue is whether the Manager
23 was right or wrong.
24 MR. RREBS: Right. That's what I was
25 talking about.
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MR. GARGANESE: Because under the ordinance
for these residential aesthetic reviews you
delegate the authority to the City Manager to
make the decision. And if the Manager -- If the
person doesn't like the decision made by the
Manager, they have a right to appeal to this
Commission, and that's what's going on here this
evening.
So, if you uphold the Manager's decision on
the chain link fence, or chain link fence gate,
then it will just go back and the applicant
property owner, Mr. Miller, can submit something
different. And that will ba considered on its
merits at the time it's submitted, by the
Manager. Sut --
DEPUTY MAYOR: Commission Brown is next.
COMMISSIONER BROT~N: I was going to make a
motion we uphold the City Manager's opinion to
allow the Millers to come back with a modified --
if that's the way we have to do it -- with a
modified permit request. But there's two other
lights that popped up. And Commission Miller
just put his light on, as well.
DEPUTY MAYOR: There has been a motion. Ia
it seconded?
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Is this a public hearing?
MR. JONES: You call it a remand?
COMMISSIONER BROWN: Remaaded with
instructions to the Manager, yeah.
COMMISSIONER MILLER: I would support
Commissioner Brown's motion, with the
understanding if that's what he's meant it's
going to be approved --
COMMISSIONER RREBS: Right.
COMMISSIONER MILLER: -- as long as it's
aesthetically in compliance with the rest of the
fence on that street. I don't want him getting
back into this thing about you only have one
entrance to your property on this particular
case.
MR. GARGANESE: Well, on the entrance issue,)
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I mean, that's -- You've got a actual issue --
COMMISSIONER MILLER: I understand.
MR. GARGANESE: -- control issue, if there's
going to be a driveway.
COMMISSIONER MILLER: The City made a
mistake. Well, it cannot be made a driveway.
MR. GARGANESE: Well, that --
COI~ISSIONER MILLER: The way it is right
now, it caa be an access point to his property
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from time to time .
COMMISSIONER GILMORE: Different issue.
DEPUTY MAYOR: Th• motion is simply the
aesthetic review.
COMMISSIONER RREBS: Is this a public
hearing?
DEPUTY MAYOR: To uphold the City Manager's
opinion. Until this --
COMMISSIONER GILMORE: Upholding.
DEPUTY MAYOR: Ia this under public
hearings?
MR. GARGANESE: We put it under public
hearing, Me should -- Any member of the public
cant to comment, be free to do so.
DEPUTY MAYOR: Before we do vote on this, it
is under public hearing.
Is there anybody here who Mould like to
speak to this issue?
No one expressing an interest, we'll close
the public hearing portion of this.
MR. MCLEMORE: One item, Madam Chairman.
For the record. There was a atatemant, if I
heard it correctly from Mr. Jones, that the
permits for what has been referred to as the bars
were issued in error. They were not issued in
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error , and that' s reason rre mound up with a
compatibility ordinance, because at that time the
barn eras totally consistent pith our ordinances
at that tim®. So I just Brant to make it clear in
the record there sere no errors made by the staff
of the City on the permits of the barn. What e-e
found out Nas that restrictive covenants >veren't
in play at that point. If you recall, that eras
the lesson we learned on that one.
MR. JONES: If I said that, I stand
corrected.
MR. MCLEMORE: Thank you, air.
COMMISSIONER BROWN: I'd like to amend my
omn motion
DEPUTY MAYOR: All right.
COMMISSIONER RREBS: Can he do that?
DEPUTY MAYOR: Yes, he can.
COMMISSIONER BROWN: Only that since this is
already an appeal, that the modified application
comes directly before the Commission erhen it's
presented.
MR. GARGANESE: I erouldn't recommend that
one. I'd ask that under the ordinance it has to
directly qo to the Manager.
COMMISSIONER BROWN: I know, but if they
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1 don't get favorable results, it's going to be
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2 back on appeal and it will be back before us.
3 MR. GARGANESE: It'll come back before you.
4 That's the system.
5 DEPUTY MAYOR: You withdrawing tho
6 amendment?
'7 COMMISSIONER BROWN: I'll withdraw the
8 motion.
g DEPUTY MAYOR: All right. There is a motion
10 and second on the floor.
11 Call the roll.
12 T8E CLERK: Commissioner Brown.
r, 13 COMMISSIONER BROWN: Aye.
14 T8E CLERK: Commissioner Gilmore.
15 COMMISSIONER GILMORE: Aye.
16 T8E CLERK: Commissioner Krebs.
17 COMMISSIONER RREBS: Aye.
18 T8E CLERK: Commissioner Miller.
lg COMMISSIONER: Aye.
20 T8E CLERK: Deputy Mayor McGinnis.
21 DEPUTY MAYOR: Aye.
22 MR. JONES: Thank you.
23 I feel like I just kissed my sister.
24 (Whereupon, tha foregoing proceedings were
25 terminated at 8:50 p.m.)
MICHAEL D. JONES & ASSOCIATES, P.A.
ATTORNEYS AND COUNSELORS AT LAW
P.O. Box 196130
Winter Springs, Florida 32719-6130
Telephone: 407/695-7666 Facsimile (407) 695-7157
November 20, 2007
Of Counsel:
Kenneth M. Leffler
VIA FACSIMILE - 407/425-9596
Anthony Garganese, Esquire
Brown, Garganese, Et AI.
P.O. Box 2873
Orlando, FL 32802-2873
RE: Lon Miller, 1314 Deer Run
Dear Anthony:
I am advised that Mr. Miller filed his application for the gate three weeks ago and
has not yet heard anything from the City. I am puzzled by the delay. Can you please
give me a status on when we might expect the permit?
From your past correspondence, lassume that once we receive the gate permit
we will have to go back for aright-of-way permit? If correct, please be specific in what
procedure we are to follow to apply for the right-of-way permit.
If the delay is related to the thought that we might file an appeal, that is not our
intention therefore, they don't have to wait 31 days to approve the permit. I appreciate
your cooperation as usual.
MDJ/jmh
Sincerely,
ichael D. Jon s
Copy to: Lon Miller
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
1126 EAST STATE ROAD 434
WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA 32708-2799
Telephone (407) 327-1800
Community Development
November 30, 2007
Lon Miller
1314 Deer Run
Winter Springs, FL 32708
RE: Application for Sliding Gate -1314 Deer Run
Dear Mr. Miller:
This office is in receipt of your application to install a twelve (12') foot wide sliding
gate on your property along the eastern property line and boundary with Northern
Way.
This application states that the gate will be 12' wide by 6' tall and made of
stockade wood slats. However, the application does not contain a detail of the
sliding gate indicating the offset, if any, from the face of the existing fence when
the gate is closed. Please provide sufficient documentation that will enable the
City to determine the appearance of the gate when closed. In addition, please
provide a statement documenting the need fora 12' wide gate along this property
line. The garage areas of your house are accessible from the existing driveway.
Once this information is received, the City will finalize the review on this
application.
Sincerely,
'__./
Randy evenson, ASLA, AICP
Community Development Director
Cc: Ron McLemore, City Manager
Anthony Garganese, City Attorney
Kim Trench, Customer Service Manager
BROWN, GARGANESE, WEISS & D'AGRESTA, P.A.
a.~o~ ys dt ~~
Babb-Nutchel'
Debra S Offices in Orlando, Kissimmee, Cocoa, Tara L. Barrett
.
Joseph E. Blitch Ft. Lauderdale & Tampa Vivian P. Cocotas
Brown'
Usher L Scott J. Dornstein
.
Suzanne D'Agresta Mitchell B. Haller
Anthony A. Garganese`' Katherine W. Latorre
Terri E. Oster
J.W. Taylor Amy J. Pitsch
Jeffrey S. Weiss
'Board Certified Civil Trial Lawyer
"Board Certified City. County & Local Government Law
Board Certified Appellate Practice
December 3, 2007
Michael D. Jones, Esquire
Michael D. Jones & Associates, P.A.
P.O. Box 196130
Winter Springs, FL 32719-6130
RE: Lon Miller, 1314 Deer Run
Dear Mr. Jones:
Erin J. O'Leary'
Catherine D. Reischmann
William E. Reischmann, Jr.
Of Counsel
After receiving your letter dated November 20, 2007, I followed up with the City staff to
determine the status of Mr. Miller's application. Enclosed is a copy of a November 30, 2007 letter
from the City's Community Development Director to Mr. Miller. It appears at this time that Mr.
Miller's application is incomplete. The City is requesting some addition information in orderto make
a final decision on the permit application.
In addition, as I previously mentioned in my prior correspondence, driveway cuts on City
roads require a permit from the City of Winter Springs. It is my understanding that the City has an
application for such permits. However, as I previously advised during the city Commission meeting
in my previous correspondence to you, the City of W inter Springs has a comprehensive plan policy
which generally prohibits driveway cuts on collector roads such as Northern Way. That policy was
adopted by the City circa 2001.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Ve ru yours,
Anthony A. Garganese
City Attorney
AAG/jf
Enclosure
RE~£1~t~~ DEC - ~ 200fi
225 East Robinson Street, Suite 660 • P.O. Box 2873 • Orlando, Florida 32802-2873
Orlando (407) 425-9566 Fax (407) 425-9596 • Kissimmee (321) 4D2-0144 • Cocoa (866) 425-9566 • Ft. Lauderdale (954) 670-1979
Website: www.orlandolaw.net • Email: firm@orlandolaw.net
December 19 2007
Randy Stevenson
1126 East State Road 434
Winter Springs, FL 32708
Dear Mr. Stevenson:
In response to your letter of November 30, 2007 the offset of the gate is approximately 6 to 8 inches as
required by the width of the tires and the fence supporting post.
Please advise what you mean by "sufficient documentation" that will allow you to determine the
appearance of the gate when closed.
There are many sliding gates in the area of Winter Springs and Oviedo, most without the wooden slats
attached. The stockade gate is the same as the chain link type but without stockade slates attaches to the
steel frame.
From time to time I transport vehicles and material to my garage area by a car trailer, which I own. and
can not use at the present time. It is impossible to maneuver my trailer through my garage doors due to
lack of space. At this time I have to shuffle my cars around unnecessarily, a waste of time and gas.
If you find the present request unacceptable, please consider two-six foot wide, six foot high stockade type
swing gates. There would be no offset to this gate and fence combination.
Sincerely,
Lon Miller
Cc: Michael Jones, Esquire
§ 17-29
Sec. 17-29. Access control.
WINTER SPRINGS CODE
In order to promote the safety of motorists and
pedestrians and to minimize traffic congestion
and conflict by reducing the magnitude of and the
points of contact, the following regulations shall
apply:
(1) A point of access, that is, a driveway or
other opening for vehicles onto a public
street, shall not exceed twenty-four (24)
feet in width, except as otherwise pro- °
vided in this section.
(2) The maximum number of points of access
permitted onto any one (1) street shall be
as follows:
Lot Width Abutting Number of Points
Street of Access
Less than 65 feet 1
65 feet-200 feet 2
Over 200 feet 2
Plus for each addi- 1
tional 200 feet or
fraction thereof
(3) In lieu of any two (2) openings permitted
on any one (1) street, there may be per-
mitted asingle point of access up to sixty
(60) feet in width; however, service sta-
tions shall be permitted two (2) openings
not to exceed sixty (60) feet each in width,
along any abutting public street, provided
that such property abuts such street for a
distance of not less than one hundred fifty
(150) feet.
(4) Except in R-1 and R-lA zoning districts,
there shall be a minimum distance of
twelve (12) feet between any two (2) open-
ings onto the same street. In R-1 and
R-lA zoning districts access point open-
ings shall not be closer than two (2) feet of
any property line.
(5) No point of access shall be allowed within
ten (10) feet of the intersection of the
right-of--way lines of any public street or
streets.
(6) No curbs shall be cut or altered, and no
point of access or opening for vehicles onto
a public street shall be established with-
out a permit from the city commission or
an official who has been designated by the
city commission.
(7) Projects for which a site plan is required,
such as plaza developments, compound
uses and shopping centers, shall be con-
sidered on an individual basis and may
deviate from these requirements in the
interest of traffic safety after recommen-
dation by the planning and zoning board
of the city.
(3) Permit fees shall be established by reso-
lution of the city commission.
(Code 1974, § 13-11)
Sec. 17-30. Obstruction to vision at street
intersections.
It shall be unlawful to obstruct the vision at
intersections of a street or streets in the city as
hereinafter described:
(1) There shall be clear vision to and through
street intersections from a distance of
forty (40) feet from the point of intersec-
tion extending down each intersecting
street for a minimum distance of forty
(40) feet from the point of intersection.
(2) Any plant within the area of clear vision
shall not exceed three (3) feet in height.
Abutting property owner is responsible to
maintain such plants within this height
or the plant or plants shall be subject to
removal at the expense of the abutting
property owner.
(3) Trees shall be permitted within the clear
vision space, provided that foliage is kept
cut back to a height not less than eight (8)
feet from the ground.
(4) Lampposts and street name signposts shall
be permitted within the clear vision space
described in (1) above.
(Code 1974, § 13-12)
Sec. 17-31. Violation.
Any person who shall begin excavation, con-
struction or repair work involving the tearing up
or replacing of any street or sidewalk or any part
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