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HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2006 11 08 City Commission Workshop Minutes CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP NOVEMBER 8, 2006 CALL TO ORDER The Workshop of Wednesday, November 8, 2006 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor John F. Bush at 6:30 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake, present Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore, present Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake congratulated Mayor Bush, Commissioner Sally McGinnis, and Commissioner-Elect Rick Brown on winning the Municipal Election. A moment of silence was followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. City Manager Ronald W. McLemore mentioned the need to meet on Tuesday, November 14th, 2006 to discuss an issue related to the James Doran Company. Mayor Bush stated, "Everybody can make the 14th [November 2006] - 6:30 p.m.?" No objections were noted. Manager McLemore then pointed out that, "We would have to advertise it as a Special Meeting." Deputy Mayor Blake said, "I just want to make sure it is set as a Meeting, not as a Workshop." Mayor Bush added, "It will be a Meeting." INFORMATIONAL AGENDA INFORMATIONAL 300. Office Of The Mayor Requesting The City Commission To Hold A Workshop On Town Center Parking Issues. Manager McLemore introduced this Agenda Item for discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 2 OF 9 Mr. Brian Fields, P.E. City Engineer, Public Works Department gave an overview of the Phases associated with the Town Center and related parking issues. Deputy Mayor Blake said to Manager McLemore, "Are you planning to have any sort of - discussion as to actually how this occurred, not just what occurred, but how this occurred? For instance - if you went back to page 7 [of the Agenda Item], talking about how there were supposed to be 766 spaces and we ended up building only 690 for various reasons, and I think he said some of those reasons were due to the difference between what was drawn on the plans and what ultimately got constructed due to whether it be turning radius, roadway widths, engineering issues - is what I am hearing. I think that is a big issue and I am concerned about that because this is the first time I have heard that and I am wondering how our process needs to be changed, if we are getting Final Engineering drawings - that are being signed off on. They are obviously being provided by Licensed Engineering firms, they are being reviewed by our Staff. It gets to us, we approve it, and then it gets out in the field and it is not able to be built, yet there is nothing coming back through us that says this can't be built as it was drawn. We have to make some changes. And if that is the case, it might have caused other changes down the road to have been made that ultimately were not, thus exasperating the problem, and here we are today. My question is, do we intend to have a discussion about that particular cause of this issue - I understand that is not the only cause." Discussion. Deputy Mayor Blake then stated, "I wasn't talking about the demand generated shortages, I am talking basically if we had drawings that showed - 766 spaces which had some buffer in there, in excess of a number of spaces for what the planned uses were at that time, and they weren't all built due to these engineering issues, where exactly through the process did that break down? Because hopefully if there are changes that need to be made like that, and now suddenly we don't have as much parking as we thought. At some point we need to do an analysis to figure out - what we need to do about it..." Manager McLemore commented, "...I agree - we do agree, and I think probably at a point by point, those explanations were provided to the Commission." Furthermore, Manager McLemore remarked, "I think what Commissioner Blake is saying is - every time we make a decision, that parking analysis needs to be part of that decision." Manager McLemore added, "I think if you look through our Findings, we are saying that we really need to do that better than we have in the past." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 3 0F 9 Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs noted, "We do have to and figure out what happened and why it happened so that we can prevent it from occurring any further and in order to do that, we do have to investigate the whole complete process." With further discussion, Manager McLemore suggested adding in an overage factor. Discussion. Regarding the process, Commissioner Krebs suggested, "When we look at a Concept Plan, it comes back to us later and there are those that have originally brought that Concept Plan to us, believe that - you approved it. Well, no. We weren't approving that at the time, it was just a concept. In looking at something, why show parking spaces that aren't supposed to be there to begin with?" Commissioner Krebs added, "Going forward, maybe we need to be more accurate in the depiction." Mr. Fields noted, "I think there are safeguards in our process now that weren't there at the time these plans went through and part of that is just learning. Part of that is new checks, Developer's Agreements, documenting things in more detail, more detailed parking analyses, so I think the process has improved quite a bit and hopefully you will see that when we get to the Phase II Developer's Agreement." Discussion ensued on Altamonte Springs events and the marketing of their events. TapellSide B Further discussion followed on making the Town Center more successful, parking, and a public private partnership. Mr. George D. Tullos, James Doran Company, 216 Seven Farms Drive, Suite 200, Charleston, South Carolina: stated, "The reason we have not moved forward is we cannot come to an agreement. What got us sidetracked was our willingness to try and assist with providing additional parking at a cost. We're no longer willing to do that because we can't come to an agreement." Continuing, Mr. Tullos added, "We're not asking the City for one penny. We want to build the parking required for the project and move forward." With further discussion, Mr. Tullos stated, "I can offer you a solution tonight that will help you more immediately than taking their parking spaces offTuskawilla [Road]. I can offer temporary parking on the Phase 1 side immediately." Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 4 0F 9 Commissioner Krebs asked, "What can we do?" Mr. Tullos remarked, "We can provide additional spaces in one of the garages for cash - pay for the spaces. Fifteen thousand [dollars] ($15,000.00) a space, cash money. No infrastructure. Our lender will accept nothing short of a cash payment. That's a fact. The other thing I might be able to do is provide what I mentioned was temporary parking on the Phase I side that is cancelable within thirty (30) days notice - or with thirty (30) days notice, because I am putting it on valuable land that I can sell. But the fact of the matter is, I am willing to compromise in the short term because the city's got planned improvements for Blumberg. We're allowing you to stage your bricks now on one of our pads - and all we're asking for is to be able to move those should we sell a pad. But because of all the construction that has been going with Building 17, with the Blumberg improvements that you will be doing, those pads are a little difficult to market right now." Discussion. Mr. Tullos then explained, "I wasn't here when this deal was made evidently but I know that we donated the land for the purpose of that parking - those spaces are city-owned spaces now on Tuskawilla Road, they don't belong to us. I think our obligation stops at the building front and everything else is city-owned and I say that for clarification." Next, discussion followed on the width of sidewalks and parking. Tape 2/Side A Further discussion. Mr. Tullos remarked, "We're going to keep going. We're going to work with you to get the thing moving forward - we are wholly invested in making this project work. We do not sell our centers. We build and hold. It's a business and lifestyle for us." Discussion continued on wide sidewalks and parking spaces, to which Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore stated, "I am in favor of the wide sidewalks because it is for the future; it's not for tomorrow; and if we don't do it now, I don't think we will do it." Commissioner McGinnis added, "I think wide sidewalks - we have to provide for that in the very beginning. That is the concept. That was the vision." Continuing, Commissioner Robert S. Miller commented, "This ought to be wide sidewalks all the way down the street. I think we need to do it right now." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 5 0F 9 Mayor Bush said, "As I understand it, George [Tullos] and Ron [McLemore] are not disagreeing on the wide sidewalk issue at all..." Manager McLemore said, "...I don't think so..." Mr. Tullos stated, ".. .I'm not disagreeing." Mayor Bush continued, "There is a problem with temporary parking though that we are trying to address, I don't think we have really got to that yet - but temporary parking is a problem right now." Mr. Tullos explained, "Temporary parking had been a part of the agreement initially on the Phase IIA side." Commissioner Miller noted, "We're arguing about two things - we're arguing about those 1 00 spaces which we say - it is all rolled up into the same numbers - as I recall, it was sixty-two (62) spaces really was needed for events..." Manager McLemore said, "...Could I offer a compromise there - that the sixty-two (62) spaces are built for cash; you are going to provide the temporary parking back here; and to the extent that you can, maybe some can be provided over here for a period of time, I don't know. That we not convert these until that garage is built, that we have got the sixty-two (62) spaces in." Mr. Fields mentioned that "The diagonal spaces on the east side have to be tom up for the underground utilities. So, when we saw that they had to be tom up we said that is a good time to put them back as parallel." Mayor Bush noted, "The east side of Tuskawilla Road. " Commissioner McGinnis inquired, "Where would the temporary parking be, specifically?" Mr. Tullos remarked, "It was over here, east of McDonalds." Manager McLemore said, "Agreed." Manager McLemore then suggested, "Until that - is needed, can it be used for temporary parking, that is all I am asking?" Mr. Tullos noted, "It is going to be staging for that first garage. So the answer is going to be 'No'." Continuing, Mr. Tullos then stated, "As you step across Cliff Rose [Drive] here, our next pad starts right there. I think as part of that, we have some temporary spaces assigned to Building 17, I think it is six (6) spaces. So, if we're going to put six (6) there - we've got to stage somewhere for [Building] 17, so I don't know - and I might need to stage right next to that parking; but I might be able to corne down here, wrapping around behind Publix and provide some number of spaces, that would at a minimum alleviate the loss of spaces on the east side of Tuskawilla [Road]. With discussion, Manager McLemore noted, "If we agreed to this 62 spaces, you've got - eighteen (18) months, two (2) year period before they're available?" Mr. Tullos stated, "Yes." Manager McLemore continued, "So, we have some temporary parking. You have the wider sidewalks. If that day comes which I am confident it will, three (3) years from now when we built these units, you are going to need those sidewalks." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 6 0F 9 Commissioner Miller asked, "Has anybody thought of approaching Kingsbury about renting some of his property?" Mr. Tullos remarked, "Not interested at all. I'd be happy to try again though." Mayor Bush called a Recess at 8:23 p.m. The Workshop was called back to Order at 8:42 p.m. Mayor Bush stated, "I asked Brian [Fields] a question - where this temporary parking should go?" Mr. Fields explained, "The approved plans, and they were approved by this Commission, subject to an Implementation Agreement, showed a 123 space temporary parking lot, on the area east of McDonalds. Those plans need to be brought back to you with a formal revision to remove that and get your approval. They can't just decide not to do it. Just to remind you." Mr. Tullos remarked, "It could be handled in the Implementation Agreement, I agree with that I think, because we could slipsheet that sheet saying there is no 123 spaces on that pad anymore, I mean that is fine." Deputy Mayor Blake noted, "And put the other page in that shows where they are going to be?" Mr. Tullos stated, "That's exactly right." Deputy Mayor Blake noted, "There we go. Aye." Mayor Bush spoke of Publix employees and said that they "Come over and park in the center - further east. What if there was temporary parking over in the Blumberg property for the Publix employees?" Mayor Bush added, "Are we limited to having temporary parking in only one place?" Mr. Tullos remarked, "Yes, that has been a little bit of a problem. That's a property management issue. That is - completely on our shoulders to try and take care of. We've sent letter after letter. We've talked to the Manager personally. We will continue to make every effort to encourage them to park in the back. That's why that parking is back there for them to begin with - there is parking in the back now that is actually not being used by Pub1ix employees, and some - of it is being used by the high school, because they don't have enough parking spaces. We don't allow it, but - what we've not wanted to do is send the message that we're just going to tow everybody. We may get to that point where we've just got to start towing cars. Do it for a short period of time, so everybody gets the message - just didn't want to send that negative impression. So - good points. An issue we're working to try and solve. We haven't solved it yet. But I was going to respond to what you said as far as the temporary parking. If the temporary parking, if I am able to get Bob Doran to accept that as a compromise, on the Phase I side, the only opportunities to do it are on those pads, on those Blumberg pads - those pads that face Blumberg; and it's got to be conditioned upon a thirty (30) day - it has got to be cancelable with thirty (30) days notice." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLDRIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 7 0F 9 Further discussion. Manager McLemore recommended that "There's two (2) alternatives - again from a negotiating point of view - agree not to make a decision tonight; let's see if we can get together and come up with some solution to bring back to you; or make a decision tonight." Discussion. Commissioner McGinnis departed the Workshop at 8:54 p.m. Valet parking was discussed next. Referring to a map of the proposed Phase IIA site immediately east of Tuskawilla Road, north of McDonald's and south of Tree Swallow Drive (the proposed Magnolia Park property), Deputy Mayor Blake suggested, "You say you need this area down here for a staging area after the sidewalks are done - what if we gave you the ability to use this as staging area, and we provide for temporary parking here during the construction of that block?" Continuing, Deputy Mayor Blake said, "And if there is - money involved, maybe we need to talk about how to work that out, something that is reasonable as well, or a tradeoff someplace else." Mr. Tullos responded by saying, "The only answer I could give you is I would have to talk to our construction people and see if there is a way to work that out." Continuing, Mr. Tullos stated, "We can look at it. It hasn't been discussed before." Furthermore, Deputy Mayor Blake suggested, "Let's look for reasons how we can make it work." Tape 2/Side B Discussion followed on the Town Center, Phase IIA, and parking. Deputy Mayor Blake said to Mr. Tullos, "What I asked you to do is to recognize the evolution type growth that this will have as you continue to develop it." Mr. Tullos remarked, "We do." Mr. Tullos noted, "All I can tell you is I'll make a promise that we will go back and look at it, and see if it's an option." Deputy Mayor Blake added, "Try to make it work!" Mr. Tullos added, "We'll see if it's an option, that's all I can do. I have offered ninety-one (91), nobody wants those." Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 8 OF 9 Deputy Mayor Blake then stated, "George [Tullos] will you before now and Tuesday, work to find those answers? Continuing, Deputy Mayor Blake said, "To Ron and to Brian and to our staff, I know you guys are working hard on it too, we need to make sure that we are as friendly to each other as we can be and try to get past this - what I think is probably just a two (2) year period and if we have to forgo things within a short period of time, like a narrower sidewalk, like keeping eight (8) spaces or nine (9) or whatever it happens to be or pushing that out to some definite time two (2) years from now, or upon C.O. [Certificate of Occupancy] of the parking garage when we get extra spaces there to offset it, then we can go through that." Deputy Mayor Blake said to Mr. Tullos, "You have got to find a way, and you are masterful, I know you can do it, to get each of your entities to work together and see the bigger picture and the bigger pie and make it happen. If we can do that - Tuesday night - have before us the final decisions that we can actually implement, take care of the Implementation Agreement and change the final plans if we need to." Mr. Tullos stated, "Commissioner Blake, we'll look at it. We will do as exactly what I said we would do - we will take a look at it and see if it's an option." Commissioner Krebs commented, "I just want to ditto what Commissioner Blake was saying and ask you to consider exactly that." Mr. Tullos replied, "We will. We absolutely will." In other City business, Mayor Bush mentioned, "We need to be thinking about the Tusca Trails issue and at some point, decide when we are going to discuss that." Mayor Bush added, "Look at your calendars, and Monday night, at our Regular Meeting, we can set a date. " Commissioner Miller suggested, "It would be preferable to have Staff do a record search and bring that to us, maybe as an Informational item, or a Consent item and let's have them maybe give us a presentation on all ofthe different blueprints that were made." Commissioner Miller added, "I just don't want to have a Special Meeting on this." Mayor Bush noted, "We can talk about that Monday." Lastly, Mayor Bush recommended that, "We have a - renewal of the Town Center vision, as we will have - at least one (1) new Commissioner and some of us really haven't seen that vision." Mayor Bush added, "So, I would like to recommend at some point, the Manager make arrangements for the Consultant to come back and talk about the Town Center - the whole vision process." Again, we will bring that up Monday as well and see if that is something that you would like to do." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - NOVEMBER 8, 2006 PAGE 9 0F 9 ADJOURNMENT Mayor Bush adjourned the Workshop at 9:41 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: ANDREA LORENZO-LUACES, CMC CITY CLERK