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HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2001 08 20 City Commission Special Minutes CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING AUGUST 20, 2001 I. CALL TO ORDER The Special Meeting of Monday, August 20, 2001 of the City Commission was called to order by Mayor Paul P. Partyka at 6:33 p.m. in the Commission Chamber:; of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). ROLL CALL: Mayor Paul P. Partyka, present Deputy Mayor David W. McLeod, present Commissioner Robert S. Miller, absent Commissioner Michael S. Blake, arrived at 6:36 p.m. Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr., present Commissioner Cindy Gennell, present City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present II. REGULAR REGULAR A. Community Development Department Presents To The City Commission The Preliminary Site Plan For The .3-Phase 237,500 Square Foot James Doran Company Winter Springs Town Center. Mr. Shane Doran, James Doran Company: introduced Mr. Chip Carrington, Counsel; Mr. Tom Hunt, and Mr. David Tomlin. Commissioner Michael S. Blake arrived at 6:36 p.m. Mr. Tom Hunt: spoke of design revisions to the site. Commissioner Cindy Gennell asked if the Commission was meeting as the Development Review Committee on the project, and Mr. Ronald W. McLemore, City Manager stated that this was correct. Mr. David Tomlin: as the Landscape Architect and Land Planner for the project, he gave an overview to the City Commission of the plans with emphasis on landscaping design and streetscapes. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20,2001 PAGE 2 OF 22 Deputy Mayor David W. McLeod asked, "In the drawing you have in front of us right now, it shows a sidewalk - with planters, and it shows a brick outlay around the planters. Now, in look at the large site plan that you have given us, are those the same planters for instance we have been talking about?" Deputy Mayor McLeod added, "The sidewalk at Publix shows several of those planters, about eight (8) of them through that area. Is that what the intent is on each one of those?" Mr. Tomlin responded, "Yes, and also we are showing some palm planting happening along Main Street, Hickory Grove, and 4.34." Deputy Mayor McLeod then stated, "The reason I am going there for the answer to that - if along the front of Publix there is about eight (8) of those presently, the other buildings also have them. What I noticed is different on this site plan drawing - the underlay - when you go to the site, if you look at the sidewalk on the site plan it shows everything has cracks and lines in alignment. If - you will flip the page over now and show us what you were showing us, you will notice that the sidewalk - in the detail on the bottom left hand corner of the grayed area, actually shows the sidewalks are staggering; where your site plan shows everything is in line with each other. Is this actually the way it is going to be?" Mr. Tomlin answered, "It happens two (2) different ways. If the site, if it is wide, it depends on the width of the sidewalk because if the sidewalk is up around twelve (12) feet, we'll typically put that score joint more in the middle of it, because - we want to keep an expansion joint in there. We don't want to line the score joint back here, and then we have got the possibility of cracking further up." Deputy Mayor McLeod then asked, "Right now, is that the detail that would be in front of Publix, on the side of Publix?" Mr. Tomlin answered, "No." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "I don't find anywhere on the site plan, that detail that you had up there." Mr. Tomlin stated, "It is going to happen more and actually we are showing a double score joint up toward the market. That area would occur more in an area like this. Right now, we are showing it as a double score that is running right along, it's a little different than the detail that we are showing right now. So, we are open for comment. This kind of gives it a different option when we run into sidewalks like that I would think this would probably be the only occurrence where it might need to shift back." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "I was trying to find out, when I looked at the prints and I went back to your details, I was trying to locate that detail on the site plan and I couldn't really locate it. What you are telling me, you really don't have it drawn - on the site plan." Mr. Tomlin responded, "If we did need to, it would be where we have got a much wider sidewalk that we were trying to try and pull that score joint back." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "Well I think that gives a nice character look to the sidewalks and that was what I was trying to find out, is that what we're going to do throughout, and what you are telling me is basically only in one section. So the rest of them are going to be primarily lined." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 3 OF 22 Deputy Mayor McLeod then stated, "My other question would become - up around the fountain, I don't know that I really understand - if you have any brick pavers up there at all?" Mr. Tomlin stated, "What we are proposing for the - as we develop this and come to final presentation, we are going to have enlarged plans and more detailed things. But right now I can walk you through what we are talking about doing, and I can also use these as - example. As you would drive up or - drive by, what we have done is located the fountain itself right - as the front. What we are talking about doing and what we are proposing right here is an oyster tabby concrete paving and then we pick up along it's edge, the brick paving." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "We just don't have the detail of that." Mr. Tomlin said, "We are still working with Staff in developing this, and this would blend into the palm planters." Deputy Mayor McLeod then inquired, "In the radius of that particular fountain - circle, is there enough room in there for the fire trucks to go around that fountain?" Mr. Tomlin responded, "Yes. Right now what we are doing - we are working with Public Safety to first, number one, we've got to determine what are the routes of those fire trUl~ks, and make sure we are providing that. Also number two - Avid Engineering is our Civil Engineer and we are running vehicular tests on all this, to verify what our radiuses need to be. Again right now, as far as a preliminary plan, we are beginning to ask those questions and fine tune this plan to make sure we, just like our deliveries, just like our trash pick up, make sure all of that works." Discussion. Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "At the present time, and I know this goes beyond what you are asking for right now, but for the Commissioners that weren't present, if you go to the far west of the site, north/south extension of Hickory Grove, they were looking at trying to get that to be a main entrance, egress to the property. But there were some problems with extensions presently to the east of that, towards City Hall, as a road to get to City Hall. What was asked is that we have interest in making that an open area there to be able to cross the highway, and then at some point would only give you a right in and a right out of City Hall. But at that point we would then need a service road to bring us back into that particular property." Deputy Mayor McLeod further stated, "So, it depends how soon - that building number 7 - builds out and when that property becomes available, that that portion of the site plan potentially could change if the property adjoining it, had an easement across it to allow for a service road to come back into City Hall. I just put that on the table because that is something that is probably down the road that's going to come back to us at some point. It really isn't affecting the developer and what is requested at the present time. But it has some potential down the road - and I don't think we should let it be a surprise to everybody else down the road - it was discussed at our meeting." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 4 OF 22 Regarding the possible purchase of the Kingsbury land, Mr. Doran said that he was receptive to this. Discussion followed on the paving and Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "Are you saying you are going to have a light broom finish?" "Yes," Mr. Tomlin answered. Brief discussion. Deputy Mayor McLeod then inquired about signage and said that on the sign it shows the City's logo and "At the present time we are talking about changing that logo and I wonder if it's appropriate to put that logo on this particular City sign. Or are we serious about changing our logo. You're probably not even aware of that." Mr. Tomlin responded, "I am not aware of it, but I think any new logo that you design will fit appropriately on our wall." Mr. Doran stated, "The location of that is on - Park, which I am deeding to you all. So, I think he was presenting it not as in we're doing it, but - to go ahead and make sure that for the other signs we have applied for, that there is a cohesive theme throughout." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "So once you build the wall you are going to give us that corner?" Mr. Doran stated, "I am just giving you the corner actually." Deputy Mayor McLeod responded, "Oh I see, we are building the wall?" Mr. Doran answered, '''I would think so." Deputy Mayor McLeod asked Manager McLemore, "Is that how you understood that Ron?" Deputy Mayor McLeod then stated, "What the question is, is on that corner piece of property - there is a sign that will go on there that is this logo." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated further, "See that wall right there? What he is saying is that you are - we are building that wall and we're putting our sign on it." Manager McLemore stated, "We need to go back to the documents and see what it say.s. But I don't remember specific sign language in that document." Manager McLemore explained to the Commission, "You have been given a preliminary master plan and you are not being asked to approve detail plans at this point in time. You are simply being asked to approve preliminary plans." Commissioner GenneU stated, "For both phases?" Manager McLemore answered, "Yes," Commissioner Gennell stated, "I have found the bicycle racks - in the back but can you locate them for me here on your page two (2)." Mr. Tomlin responded, "Number one, we are still locating them to the - and a lot of it's going to do with the uses of buildings - definitely in front of the Publix, we are looking at a corner in this area; also, in this area for our open dining; also, we have them in our pocket parks. To start to locate those, what we look at is a group of people who may be riding their bicycles and getting off in a green space and then walking to the other buildings..." Commissioner Gennell stated, "... Will you have them at the fast food places?" Mr. Tomlin stated, "Yes. Like I said earlier, the ones that we are - discussing with is not nailed down I 00 percent (100%) because what they have to do is conform to the Town Center Code." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 5 OF 22 Regarding outside grocery cart storage, Commissioner Gennell stated, "Well, there is none outside?" "Correct" was the response. Commissioner Gennell responded, "Okay." Discussion ensued regarding the proposed monument sign adjacent to Main Street that is to be removed from the plan. Mr. Tomlin stated, "We do understand by Code these require a special exception and are discussing whether - the possibility of going for a special exception or not. We understand this is not allowed. But we are - and we understand if we need to go, if we want to proceed with these signs, we need to fill out the appropriate forms and come in front of you." Mr. Tomlin stated, "We understand, and we have talked with Staff last week cmd they have made their findings - we still need to talk to Staff more. If we do bring a. sign in front of you, we want it to be well developed with Staffs comments and their approval. So, at this point we are not bringing a specific sign in front of you, or asking for a "Special Exception." Mayor Partyka stated, "So just from what Shane is saying, this is something that you guys would desire. Is that correct?" Mr. Tomlin answered, "Correct." Mayor Partyka asked, "Is the Staff in agreement with you that this is a good idea?" Manager McLemore stated, "No." Discussion followed on the issue of monument signs. Mr. Doran stated, "I want to reiterate Commissioner Gennell and Ron that from the beginning and as I said to you all earlier, I have come to this with the requirements of my tenants in mind. I see it as my job to keep you all happy and my tenants happy, and that is why I specifically showed this location, and this location in the exhibit to the developer's agreement. There is also a clause in the agreement saying that the agreement is in general and conforming with the Town Center Code. So it is really not to me clear that I need the exception yet, and it is a major deal point since I have obligated a portion of both those to Publix and it is a lease requirement, based on our development agreement we signed a year ago." "Point of Order" by Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr. who stated, "May I suggest, if you are polling the Commissioners that they hold their remarks until we are finished. " Tape I/Side B Commissioner Gennell spoke of mature trees obscuring the visibility of building signage, and stated, "So I am not going to say I would be for something, or against it. But I would be willing to review something done in very, very good taste or something very innovative, or something that would be particularly enhancing to the Town Center. It would have to add something to the Town Center besides, in my opinion arid I am just one vote, but it would have to add something to the overall concept." Commissioner Blake spoke ofMr. Doran's perception that the plan was already approved and stated "We need to, I think, go back and take a look at that to find out legally exactly what has occurred." Commissioner Blake further stated, "I think it was with that general CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 6 OF 22 type of design that we're considering when we put this thing together, that we were looking for as well. Obviously we're looking at some possible, special consideration here. I think we need to go forward and take a look at that through the "Special Exception" process. But I am concerned that we have somebody in here that believes that we have already made, come to an agreement on something. I think we have to revisit that and make sure we know where we do stand legally." Manager McLemore stated, "A concept drawing is a concept drawing, it is not a detailed plan. And I don't know how you could do away with that as a "Special Exception" process anyhow." Further discussion. Deputy Mayor McLeod clarified that "You are basically asking for three (3) monument signs at the present time or a sign to give indication of what's back in the structure. There are two (2), on 434 and one (1) on Main Street?" Mayor Partyka read Point 10 arid asked, "Is that true or not true?" Mr. Tomlin answered, "Currently we understand that there is being written the revised developer agreement, and our intent is when we submit for final site plan approval, all of that will be in conjunction, and all of that will be worked out. We understand that that's a stipulation as far as a preliminary design approval and we have all intentions of heeding to that." Regarding Point 11, Commissioner Blake asked, "Where in our agreement do we have the word 'parapet' defined?" Discussion. Mr. Hunt explained, "If I remember - correctly, it gives you a number of different ways to achieve that two (2) story look. And a 'parapet' may be used in conjunction with a story and a half or a high ceiling. Typically a 'parapet' - a wall on top of a roof. Not necessarily a two (2) story - wall. And we would not use it that way. The 'parapets' that we talk about give us an opportunity to get shape, to get some thickness, to vary some heights, you know two (2) or three (3) feet. So - the end of a roof, not the extension of a large wall. Does that answer your question?" Commissioner Blake stated, "When we first were having conversations about thi~;, it was to make certain that along the outer boundaries, specifically on 434, that the 'parapet' wall would be high enough. And I understand the varying of rooflines and all of that is great for aesthetic purposes. But it was supposed to give the vision of at least a two (2) story structure, even if it was not." Mr. Hunt stated, "That is correct and that is how we interpret as well. It really gives containment to the sidewalk and the edge of the road." Commissioner Blake then said, "Is that in here? I don't see it in here and I anl just, I want to make sure that we have it appropriately defined as to what the end product is that we are trying to achieve." Mr. Charles Carrington, AICP, Community Development Department Director read from the development agreement which stated that "parapet" walls would visually make the buildings appear to be at least two (2) stories tall on all four (4) sides. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 7 OF 22 Mr. Tomlin read Point 12 to the Commission, which addressed architectural details. Mr. Hunt addressed the need for "Special Exceptions" with the elevations along State Road 434 and presented three (3) different looks for the Special Exceptions." Drawings were distributed to the Commission. Mr. Hunt stated, "The most important thing on this particular facade, is what we are doing with the glazing, and this is where we need help. The Ordinance reads 'greater than 50 percent,' the way we understand it. If you - what we are suggesting is on the lower floor here - a one story building, we have we see fifty percent (50%) on the lower floor of glass. The glass in the bay windows would be transparent. On the bay windows you see through them. What we are suggesting, where the doors are, is to use what we call Spandrel glass. This isn't exactly the color. We are looking at doing a gray Spandrel glass in the frame so it looks as though the lights are turned off in the shop. Howlever the bay windows will still be clear and you'll see whatever happens in those bay windows. So we do indeed meet the fifty percent (50%) glass but not all of it's transparent. And that is really what we need some help with. And we think that's a pretty good solution for this particular fayade. If you recall in the floor plan there are coolers and things behind here. So that is what we are suggesting for this particular illustration. So this is option two (2)." Deputy Mayor McLeod asked, "You have mentioned that all of the awnings are metal?" This was confirmed. Further discussion. Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "Also I would like to point out to the Commissioners, it doesn't show on that one, it shows on ours real well, that we have the bay windows and then next to that would be a set of doors, that are really fake doors with a set of shutters that looks like they are closed sidelights. And then above that door is a transom that's showing windows above the doors." Discussion ensued on the color and Commissioner Gennell asked, "Is this going to be a pale gray or like a smoke gray?" Mr. Hunt stated, "It is going to be the gray that looks like the lights are turned off in the shop. I am not sure which one it is yet. But it's not a tinted glass." Mr. Tomlin stated, "We have been studying several different options - worked very closely on developing the color palette. We're basically sampling different colors right now and I think we are going to be bringing them all in front of the Board - for the final color selection." Regarding the awnings, Commissioner Gennell stated that she was in agreement with the metal awnings as opposed to cloth awnings. Commissioner Blake then stated, "'Just to make sure I understand, on the drawing here, where it shows aluminum louvered panels, that is where you are talking about putting the dark glass?" Mr. Doran's representative explained that "The louvers - will be louvers and they'll look as though they close. But they will look open all of the time. The door panel - the glazing in the doors, and the - glass will be the Spandrel glass we are talking about." Commissioner Blake asked, "And what about upstairs on the second floor?" "These will be what I call - faux windows. They look like windows with the shutters closed. So these in fact have the louvers in them, with the detailed trim around them." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 200l PAGE 8 OF 22 Commissioner Blake then inquired about the top view and asked, "Is there a way to get access to these? I see there is one where there appears to be a door from inside, which looks like it might be a fire door? But is there access to the other ones?" Mr. Hunt said, "No there is one (1) egress door right there. And the rest of them do not operate." Discussion ensued regarding converting the second stories to usable space in Phase Three (3). Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "And one of the things Commissioners, we have a.sked for is that under your approval - this evening, of Item B, actually, we are supposed to have the square footage of the upper floor and the lower floor as to what that would be in Phase Three (3). Mr. Tomlin stated, "Right now what we did on a calculation of this area was basically, roughly 6,000 square feet to include both first floor and second floor of habitable conditioned space." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "So you've got 2,000 square feet basically downstairs and 4,000 upstairs?" "Correct," stated Mr. Tomlin. Deputy Mayor McLeod added, "I think that should be noted in our Item - this evening." Commissioner Martinez stated, "I just want to ask the City Manager - the liner building that you wanted so badly in front of the Publix, it will be going in?" Manager McLemore stated, "Yes, Phase Three (3)." Commissioner Martinez added, "Because they were rejecting it at one time, but finally you came to an agreement?" Manager McLemore explained, "Right. Well, we came to the agreement - that they would do this as part of Phase Three (3) because their negotiations of leases and their scheduling and all that was just too far down the road to try to start doing that now." Commissioner Martinez stated, "But it will be going in?" Manager McLemore responded, "Yes." Deputy Mayor McLeod added, "On Phase Three (3), providing the market - it would go in. Ifthe market did not indicate that there was a tenant for that, it wouldn't necessarily have to be put in. But by Phase Three (3) it needs to be looked at from a market standpoint and if the market is there, because at that time the Center is built out, so therefore, the developer would be looking at every square foot that he can continue to build on, and if the market demanded and if my understanding is correct of what our agreement was, at that time then he would have the option to do that. Under Phase One 0) however, he must provide the utilities for that space." Mr. Doran stated, "The ability, not the obligation, so I don't know how it can be unclear to anyone. And you guys went around and said 'ability, not obligation. ", Manager McLemore stated, "Well, let me say for the second time, I don't remember it that way but I was only one person there. Whatever you all agree to tonight is what it's going to be." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "I do remember the developer very clearly stating that it wasn't necessarily an obligation, that he had to do it at that time. If it was market driven, that he would be more than happy to do it." Mr. Doran then stated, "We may be splitting hairs here guys because you are both right. It is part of Phase Three (3) but I have the ability, not the obligation to do Phase Three (3). So actually both are correct." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 9 OF 22 Mr. Carrington stated, "In regard to the awnings, I think I should point out that the adopted Code allows fabric awnings but it does not allow metal awnings. So it would require a Code Amendment I believe, if you want to deviate from your current Code." Manager McLemore added, "I think we can do that by Variance." Discussion ensued regarding the building fayades. Deputy Mayor McLeod asked in regards to the facades, "How thick are we looking at?" Mr. Hunt stated, "Weare showing eighteen (18) inches in these drawings. Mr. Doran stated, "I would just like to make a correction. I would like to say one thing before you vote - I just want to note once again that the location of the monument signage is all I am seeking today. And it is a very important deal, issue to me, and you guys may see fit to defer it, or not include it in your vote today. But it is going to come back again, and again, and again. It's key to the whole project. It goes to my obligation to tenants, particularly Publix. So, I consider it a major issue - the reconsideration and - it's not something like the design of a light or some minor detail we can just sweep aside. It's very much part of my deal; that's why I put it in for the locations on the agreement and it will be something that will need to be resolved. I just wanted to note that once again." Manager McLemore suggested "Making a Motion that would bring that back as a "Special Exception." Mr. Carrington gave a brief presentation to the Commission regarding the Preliminary Plan. He stated, "The Plan that is presented is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. But there were several things that needed to be changed between the Preliminary and the Final Plan. And these were listed 1-15 in the Agenda Item." Tape 2/Side A "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS APPROVES THE AGENDA ITEM, THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN FOR THE THREE (3) PHASE 237,500 SQUARlE FOOT, JAMES DORAN COMPANY WINTER SPRINGS TOWN CENTER PROJECT, SUBJECT TO THE SIXTEEN (16) INDIVIDUAL FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS PRESENTED TO US BY STAFF, AND SUBJECT TO FURTHER ACTION THAT WILL BE TAKEN THIS EVENING REGARDING THE SOUTHERN SIDE ELEVATION OF THE PUBLIX PROJECT." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ SPOKE FOR THE RECORD ABOUT 'NHAT TRANSPIRED DURING A RECENT MEETING WITH VICTOR DOVER. COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ THEN STATED, "I'M RECOMMENDIN-G TO THE CITY MANAGER, THAT WHEN THE NEXT HEARING OF THIS ISSUE COMES UP, HE INVITES THOSE VERY SAME PRESIDENTS OF HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS THAT WERE HERE IN THE BEGINNING, CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE ]0 OF 22 TO COME BACK AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY LISTEN AND UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE, AND THE CHANGES THAT WE ARE ALLOWING TO TAKE PLACE IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS A GOING THING. I FOR ONE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS BECOME A SUCCESS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A GROUNDBREAKING." FURTHER, COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ ADDED, "WE ALLOWED THE ONE STORY BUILDINGS WITH A FA<;ADE UP TOP, WHICH WASN'T ON THE TOWN CENTER CODE ORIGINALLY. WE HAVE - AND I KNO'W THIS WILL HAPPEN, TO REMOVE THE ENTRANCE TO CITY HALL AND MOVE IT UP SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GO IN OVER THERE BY THE ])UBLIX INSTEAD OF COMING TO CITY HALL. COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ ASKED MANAGER McLEMORJE, "IF TONIGHT WE ARE ONLY DECIDING THIS ISSUE, AND NOTHING ELSE THAT DEALS WITH THE TOWN CENTER - INCLUDING EXCEPTIONS THEY ARE LOOKING FOR." MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "YOU ARE NOT APPROVING THE EXCEPTIONS THEY ARE LOOKING FOR. 1rHA T'S GOING TO COME BACK TO YOU IN A DIFFERENT PROCESS." MAJ~AGER McLEMORE ADDED, "WHAT YOU ARE APPROVING IS THE OVERALL SITE PLAN FOR THIS ENTIRE SECTION OF THE TOWN CENTER." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD THEN RESPONDED TO COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ'S COMMENTS ON THE RECENT MEETING WITH VICTOR DOVER AND GAVE HIS ACCOUNT OF THAT MEETING. MAYOR PARTYKA STATED, "OKAY, LET'S CALL THE VOTE PLEASE." VOTE: DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE MOTION CARRIED REGULAR B. City Manager Requests The City Commission Receive The Recommendations From The Negotiating Committee. Mr. Carrington explained that regarding "Item B, on August the 2nd, the Commission established a mediation team to address the Publix storefront. The mediation team, as you know, met August the 16th with representatives of roc Corporation and with Dover Kohl, and with Staff." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 11 OF22 With discussion, Deputy Mayor McLeod clarified, "We did not guarantee the developer the impact fee credits. We told him we would look into and we would work with him." Deputy Mayor McLeod further stated, "The bay windows happen to have been something I put on the table Charles. So is the lighting and the power from that bay window section. " "MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT THE COMM][SSION DIRECTS STAFF TO ENTER INTO AN AMENDED AGREEMENT WITH THE DORAN GROUP OR JDC CALHOUN INCORPORATED, TO INCORPORATE THE GENERAL CONSENSUS RECOMMENDATION ITEMS OF THE NEGOTIATION SESSION TO INCLUDE THE DRAWINGS THAT WERE GIVEN TO US THAT WERE DATED 20 AUGUST 2001 AT THIS MEETING, THAT SHOW A DESIGN OF THE STATE ROUTE 434 ELEVATION OF THE PUBLIX. AS WELL AS AN INCORPORATION OF - THE DRAWING THAT WE HAVE NOT YET RECEIVED A COPY OF, THAT SHOWS THE BUILDOUT OF THE LINER BUILDING THAT WOULD BE CONSTRUCTED IN THE EVENT THAT PHASE THREE (3) WAS CONSTRUCTED - WHAT I WANT TO SAY HERE IS OF A CONCEPTUAL DRAWING - A BUILDING, A LINER BUILDING OF SUBSTANTIALLY THE SAME QUALITY AND DIMENSIONS AS ARE IN THAT DRAWING, IN OUR REPRESENTATION." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD. DISCUSSION. "I WILL SECOND THAT - THE THING I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE IS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE MINIMUM, FOR THE PHASE THREE (3), WHICH WOULD BE THE LOWER PHASE, I BELIEVE IS 2,000 SQUARE FEET MINIMAL, THE UPPER PHASE BEING AT LEAST A 4,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMAL. THAT'S AN OVERHANG OF THE SIDEWAI.,K AS DEPICTED - IS THERE A SKETCH NUMBER ON THAT, THAT WE COULD IDENTIFY, OR COULD WE PUT A SKETCH NUMBER AND DATE ONTO THA T?" AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION BY DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD. MR. DORAN STATED, "I WILL LABEL IT AS A PHASE THREE (3) CONCEPT AND DATE IT." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "OKAY." DE.PUTY MAYOR McLEOD THEN STATED, "PLUS OR MINUS FIVE PERCENT (5%) ON MY NUMBERS. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS SKETCH THOUGH TO BE LABELED WITH TODAY'S DATE, AND A COPY OF THAT LEFT FOR CHARLES TO PUT IN OUR RECORD. CHARLES, IS THERE ANY REASON, THAT I THINK THE HIGHLIGHTS OF ITEM 'B,' ONE (1) AND TVY'O (2) PRETTY WELL LAYS OUT MOST OF IT. BUT WOULD IT MAKE SENSE TO USE MR. CARRINGTON'S NOTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PAGES ONE (1) AND TWO (2) - ALSO? SHOULD THESE BE INCLUDED AS FAR AS THE EXHIBIT?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE ]2 OF 22 MR. CARRINGTON STATED, "YES, SIR. I THINK SO. I ~(OULD RECOMMEND THAT." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD ASKED, "IS THERE ANYTHING THERE THAT SAYS THAT WE MUST DO SOMETHING THAT WE HAVEN'T AGREED TO? LET ME INCLUDE THESE PORTIONS OF THE MINUTES AS GUIDELINES." MR. CARRINGTON STATED, "THE ONLY THING I SAW WRONG WITH THE COMMENTS FROM THE ATTORNEY FOR THE APPLICANT ~(AS IN FACT, HE ACTUALLY STATED A VARIANCE IS HEREBY GRANTED FOR SEVERAL ITEMS, FOR THE SIGNS AND SO FORTH. THE V ARJlANCE WOULD HAVE TO BE GRANTED AFTER AN APPLICATION IS COMING BEFORE THIS BOARD AND THAT WAS A LITTLE PRESUMPTUOUS. THAT WAS THE ONLY THING I SAW WRONG WITH IT." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD ASKED, "I DID SEE A COUPLE - DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A VARIANCE, AND I AM SORRY I AM IN THE MIDDLE OF A MOTION BUT, DO WE HAVE TO HAVE A VARIANCE FOR THE SHUllTERS UP TOP? WE DO?" MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "YES. FOR ANY V ARIANCE FROM THE CODE, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STIPULATE THAT VARIANCE IN YOUR AGREEMENT." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "THE CODE DOESN'T HAVE SHUTTERS. IS THAT WHY WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT SHUTTERS?" MR. CARRINGTON STATJ8:D, "I THINK THE SHUTTERS ARE ALLOWED RON." MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "THE VARIANCE WAS FROM THE GLASS, NOT - FROM THE PERCENTAGE OF GLASS, AND YOU WILL JUST STIPULATE THAT IN THE AGREEMENT." MR. CARRINGTON ADDED, "IF THEY'RE LESS THAN FIFTY PERCENT (50%) GLASS, THEN YES, WE'LL HAVE TO. WE \VON'T KNOW THAT UNTIL WE GET THE FINAL DRAWINGS." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD THEN STATED, "THE REASON I AM ASKING THAT IS - ON ONE OF HIS IS, THE SHUTTERS FOR THE UPPER LEVEL SHALL BE FLUSH WITH WALL AND SURROUNDED WITH A PERIMETER TRIM, AND - AS DEPICTED IN THE ELEVATIONS. A VARIANCE ALLOWING THIS DEPARTURE FROM THE CODE IS HEREBY APPROVED." MR. CARRINGTON STATED, "I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE A VARIANCE IN THAT CASE IS REQUIRED." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "WELL, LET ME JUST INCLUDE THESE AS GUIDELINES AND NOT NECESSARILY THE HARD FACT I GUESS. I JUST THINK THEY SHOULD BE PART OF THE RECORD." MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY PART OF THE RECORD. THE AGENDA ITEM IS PART OF THE RECORD." DKPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "THIS IS PART OF THE AGENDA ITEM." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 13 OF 22 "WHAT IS THAT?" MANAGER McLEMORE ASKED. "THIS IS THE GREENBERG... " MR. CARRINGTON STATED, "NO, THAT CAME IN AFTER THE AGENDA WENT OUT, BUT I DID PUT A COPY IN EVERYONE'S BOX. IT CAME IN THE DAY THAT THE AGENDA HAD ALREADY GONE OUT, ABOUT 3:45 P.M. I THINK WHAT THE ATTORNEY'S REFERRING TO THERE IS OPENING SHUTTERS. AND I THINK THE CODE DOES REFER TO SHUTTERS THAT WILL OPEN. THESE SHUTTERS WILL BE FIXER AND IF IT NEEDS A VARIANCE YOUR STAFF WILL BRING IT BACK TO YOU AND PROCESS IT - ANYTHING THAT DEVIATES FROM THE CODE." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "LET ME ASK THAT THESE HE PUT INTO THE RECORD AS THE MINUTES OF - THAT MEETING. BECAUSE IT TALKS ABOUT YOUR PARALLEL PARKING AND PHASE THREE (3) AND SO FORTH, WHERE OURS DOES NOT NECESSARILY - OKAY. AND I THINK THAT'S ONLY FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES." MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "JUST IDENTIFY THE DOCUMENT." IT WAS EXPLAINED THAT "THE DOCUMENT IS A DOCUMENT RECEIVED FROM THE ATTORNEY CHARLES CARRINGTON AND IT'S FROM GREENBERG TRAURIG, AND - THE DATE ON THIS IS AUGUST 17TH, AND IT WAS ADDRESSED TO RON McLEMORE, CHARLES CARRINGTON, SANDY LOGAN, AND SHANE DORAN. AND WITH THAT THERE IS -- TWO (2) PAGES." AMENDMENT SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER GENNELL ASKED, "DID YOUR AMENDMENT INCLUDE IF THEY NEED A VARIANCE TO FORTY-TWO PERCENT (42%) FOR GLASS, INSTEAD OF FIFTY PERCENT (50%)?" Commissioner Blake stated, "Point of Order. The Motion I made and I believe the Amendment that Commissioner McLeod has made - neither one of those I think was intended to be an approval of a site plan here for a liner building. What we are doing is agreeing that a liner building of some sort in substantial compliance to the drawings that we have seen and our Code would be completed if Phase Three (3) is built. And if not, then the far;:ade would look like the drawing that we received in substantial compliance to that drawing. Now, any Variances that have to be obtained, or 'Special Exceptions' that have to be obtained by the developer in order to build those things, they still have to go through those, that process, or those procedures in order to reach those. " MAYOR PARTYKA STATED, "SO TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, YOU DON'T HAVE TO STATE THE VARIANCE AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO COME BACK." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 14 OF 22 COMMISSIONER GENNELL STATED, "THEN I NEED TO ASK MR. McLEMORE, DID YOU NOT STATE JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO THAT IF YOU INTEND TO DO A VARIANCE, YOU NEED TO STATE IT TONIGHT?" MANAGER McLEMORE RESPONDED, "NO. WHAT I SAID, WAS IN ORDER TO GET EVERYBODY INTO A COMFORT ZONE HERE WE'LL JUST STATE ON THE RECORD THAT ANY VARIANCES WILL COME BACK TO THIS COMMISSION UNDER THE PROCEDURE DESCRIBED IN YOUR CODE." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED FOR CLARIFICATION, "JUST SO ALL COMMISSIONERS UNDERSTAND THE DRAWING THAT - V/HERE COMMISSIONER GENNELL WAS GOING, IS THAT THE APPROVAL OF THE LOOK THAT WE ARE APPROVING THIS EVENING - OUR CODE REQUIRES FIFTY PERCENT (50%) GLASS, THIS IS FORTY-TWO (42). SO WE ARE SAYING YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO COME BACK - ASK FOR THE VARIANCE." VOTE: (ON THE AMENDMENT) COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. VOTE: (ON THE MAIN MOTION) DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Discussion ensued regarding monument signs. Commissioner Blake stated, "What I would like to do is ask Staff to have a conversation with the developer to find some other alternatives, and it may be an alternative such as was even discussed tonight, where there are walls that exist in - places where a building sign could be erected or could be placed that gives the appropriate level of signage that somebody needs without resOlting to simply having a 'Special Exception,' or Variance, or a Code change come to us, to have the monument sign constructed someplace. I think there are other answers to get us both to where we need to be, and I would like to direct Staff, if possible with the support of the Commission, to go down that road and see if we can't find the appropriate answer." Commissioner Blake further stated, "What I don't want to see is a monument sign 'Special Exception' or change in the Code coming to us when there is a better alternative for everybody." Manager McLemore stated, "Sure." Mayor Partyka recessed the Meeting at 8:43 p.m. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 15 OF 22 Mayor Partyka called the Meeting back to order at 8:58 p.m. REGULAR C. City Manager Requests The City Commission Discuss Trail Head Alternatives. Manager McLemore provided the Commission with a Memorandum discussing six (6) alternatives for Trail Head funding, and stated his recommendation for Alternative six (6). Discussion ensued. Commissioner Gennell returned to the dais at 9:00 p.m. Tape 2/Side B Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "One of the things I would definitely advise we not do, if we go back up, I would not talk about square foot costs on the property. It was obvious to me nobody wanted to hear about square foot - cost, they wanted to hear about acreage COSt. SO I'd stay off that." Commissioner Blake stated, "My personal preference of these five (5) different or six (6) different alternatives, that we choose number five (5), and I think that's the right one, yes. Do nothing and just go forward and apply for the Florida Communities Trust Grant in the next cycle. There are some risks involved by doing number five (5). The main risk I think is that the property may be sold, somebody else might buy it. But if you look around the properties, and I am not the property expert up here, but if you look around at the properties that exist along 434 and this corridor. The unusual shape of the property in question, I think will make it one of those properties that will sell later as opposed to sooner. " Regarding parking concerns, Commissioner Blake suggested, "There is that property up on the end of the Trail that the County owns, it's conservation property. I think we drop it in the County's lap. If they're not willing to help us, it's a County Trail, then I think we make sure that they have to step up and do something for parking and bal:hrooms there. " Discussion followed on Bonds. Commissioner Gennell asked, "Is it possible we could get an option on the property until we complete the process with the Florida Communities Trust?" Manager McLemore stated, "I don't know the answer to that. I would have to ask." Commissioner Gennell then asked, "Is it worth considering?" Manager McLemore responded by saying, "I think you are probably at least two (2) years away - you have got to wait a year just to get into the process, and it takes them several months to fate you against other projects, and there are probably other projects already ahead of us. In reality we are probably three (3) years away. Unless - the various lords up in the clouds in Tallahassee were to prevail over them and say look, this is a problem we need to try CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 16 OF 22 and fix and you could get us in on an early call - but, I don't think it's a one (1) year option. I think it is at least two (2) and probably three (3) - to get it funded." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated his support to Alternative six (6), and presenting that alternative to the Cabinet. He stated, "I think you go to Tallahassee and you need to explore it. You have some feeling as to whether you are going to even get it there. Why would you want to go back in front of the Governor and Cabinet to totally be denied again by a recommendation of his Staff; but if you can get his Staff on board with this, then perhaps you have a shot at it. If you can't get his Staff - on board with it, it's going to die just like this one just did. That's all I have got to say." Commissioner Gennell suggested the Commission ask the property owner to come down $75,000.00, then go to the County and ask for $300,000.00 dollars to enhance the County Trail system, then the City and County go to the Cabinet together." Commissioner Gennell then stated, "And if that doesn't work, then I suggest we go to Commissioner Blake's position." "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ADOPT NUMBER SIX (6) WITH - THE ADDITION THAT WE ADD TO IT COMMISSIONER McLEOD'S RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE CITY MANAGER GO TO TALLAHASSEE, OR SOMEBODY GO TO TALLAHASSEE, AND FIND OUT IF THIS IS GOING TO WORK. THIS CAN BE DONE VERY QUICKLY AND IF IT DOESN'T WORK THEN WE CAN GO TO COMMISSIONER GENNELL'S SUGGESTION. AND IF THAT DOESN'T WORK WE CAN GO TO COMMISSIONER BLAKE'S CHOICE." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. "MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION WE ADOPT ALTERNATIVE FIVE (5)." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. Discussion ensued. Mr. Jerry Sansom, Legislative Consultant: addressed the Commission and stated, "I don't believe that the Cabinet will approve more than $850,000.00 for this property." Mr. Sansom stated further, "I agree with one of the comments that's been said that I think we may have one (1) more shot at this before the Governor and Cabinet. And we need to make sure that this is in fact our best and final offer cause I don't think we are going to come to the table again with them on this one, if they think that we're not in fact serious." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 17 OF 22 Furthermore, Mr. Sansom stated, "If we can somehow arrive in front of the Cabinet with, if you will, the bag of money from whatever sources there were - to where they only had $850,000.00 dollars left to go towards that purchase, we would have a better than odds - chance of getting Cabinet approval for that." Discussion ensued on cost sha.ring and appraisals. Tape 3/Side A Further discussion on appraisals. "I MOVE THAT WE DIRECT THE CITY MANAGER TO APPROACH THE COUNTY AND THE PROPERTY OWNER WITH A VIEW TOWARD OUR PUTTING IN ABOUT HALF OF IT OR SOME PORTION AGREE))1 UPON HERE - ALL RIGHT, A THIRD OF IT AND SEE IF WE CAN GENERATE SUPPORT FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER AND THE COUNTY, AND THEIR SUPPORT GOING FORWARD TO THE STATE; AND THEN PACKAGE IT TO THE CABINET THAT WE HAVE GONE OUT AND GATHERED COUNTY AND PROPERTY OWNER AND CITY SUPPORT; AND TRY ONE MORE SHOT AT THIS CABINET THAT WAY." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION. "MY MOTION WOULD STILL STAY THE SAME IF - WITH AGRE][MENT THAT MR. McLEMORE ORIGINALLY WAS WILLING TO LISTEN TO WAS THAT CITY PUT $375,000.00 UP, THE PROPERTY OWNER PUT $65,000.00 UP, THEN THE DIFFERENCE OF THOSE TWO (2) NUMBERS FROM THE $750,000.00 SHOULD - COME FROM THE COUNTY. THAT WOULD BE MY MOTION." AMENDMENT BY DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD. AMENDMENT DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. "I AM GOING TO AMEND MY OWN MOTION TO GO BACK TO THE CITY MANAGER'S ORIGINAL $375,000.00 ON THE CITY'S PART, RECOGNIZING THE FACT THAT THE CITY WANTS THIS. THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE INITIATING IN THAT WE WANT IT AND WE'RE PROPOSING IT; AND WE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING TO GO FOR THE GRANTS FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND EVERYTHING, AND THEN HIS SUGGESTION - TRY TO SPLIT THE OTHER HALF, BETWEEN THE OTHER TWO (2) ENTITIES, THE PROPERTY OWNER AND THE COUNTY." AMENDMENT BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. AMENDMENT DIED FOR A LACK OF A SECOND. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20. 2001 PAGE 18 OF 22 VOTE (ON THE MAIN MOTION): COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NAY COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: NAY MAYOR PARTYKA: NAY MOTION DID NOT CARRY. "MAYOR, I WILL ONCE AGAIN MAKE A MOTION FOR AL TERNA TIVE FIVE (5)." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. Mayor Partyka recessed the Meeting at 10:07 p.m. The Meeting was called back to order at 10:08 p.m. by Mayor Partyka. .:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE COMMISSION AGREED TO DISCUSS MATTERS CONCERNING THE WORKSHOP SCHEDULED FOR THIS EVENING. .:. .:. Members of the Commission discussed scheduling a Special Meeting for the discussion of the Comprehensive Plan. Commissioner Blake stated, "My recommendation would be to have this Meeting which is dedicated solely to this issue, and nothing else be put on the Agenda, a week from tomorrow which is the 28th." Discussion followed on whether we could request another extension, and the submittal of the Comprehensive Plan Amendments. .:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE COMMISSION RETURNED TO THE DISCUSSION ON REGULAR AGENDA ITEM "c." .:. .:. REGULAR C. City Manager Requests The City Commission Discuss Trail Head Alternatives. "RIGHT NOW, YOU HAVE A PRICE TAG OF $1,640,000.00. I THINK YOU WOULD TRY TO GET THE LANDOWNER TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, THE FIRST APPRAISAL, WHICH IS $1,550,000.00; AND THEN THE CITY CONTRIBUTE $375,000.00, AND THE COUNTY CONTRIBUTE $375,000.00. THAT WOULD BE $750,000.00 PLUS $90,000.00 - THAT'S - $840,000.00 BETWEEN THE THREE (3) PARTIES, AND THEN YOU'D GO TO THE STATE TO BE ASKING FOR $800,000.00. AND I THINK THAT SHOWS A GOOD WILL EFFORT BY THE CITY WHEN YOU GO BACK AND YOU'RE ASKING THEM FOR A LITTLE LESS THAN HALF." MOTION BY DEPUTY CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 19 OF 22 MAYOR McLEOD. DISCUSSION. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. VOTE: COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NAY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: NAY MAYOR PARTYKA: NAY MOTION DID NOT CARRY. "I'LL MAKE THE SAME MOTION WITH THE LANDOWNER. I'LL MAKE THE SAME MOTION WITH THE CITY. I'LL MAKE THE SAME MOTION WITH THE COUNTY AS ALTERNATE NUMBER ONE (1). AT THE END OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE COUNTY AND THE LANDOWNER, IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN, WE GO TO ALTERNATE NUMBER FIVE (5) THAT SAYS DO NOTHING AND APPLY TO THE FLORIDA COMMUNITIES TRUST FUND NEXT YEAR." MOTION BY DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD. DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD ADDED, "THE FIGURES BASICALLY BRING YOU BACK TO, COMMISSIONER - $1,500,000.00, IS THE LANDO\VNER'S ORIGINAL - APPRAISED VALUE, AND THE NEXT NUMBER WOULD BE $375,000.00 BY THE CITY, $375,000.00 BY THE COUNTY, AND U' THE COUNTY IS NOT WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE, AND THE LANDOVVNERS NOT WILLING TO CONTRIBUTE, THEN THE OTHER ALTERNATE \VOULD BE NUMBER FIVE (5), THAT WE DO NOTHING. IN OTHER WORDS IF THOSE TWO (2) DON'T CONTRIBUTE, WE DON'T GO TO THE STATE." SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. DISCUSSION. VOTE: COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: NAY MOTION CARRIED. Commissioner Gennell stated, "I have one comment and if you need it, I'll make a Motion. That the next time, if there is a next time that we go up to the Cabinet, we already, before we really didn't know what all their opposition was because we had to wait until we got there to hear the latest feedback - we go up there this time, we'll know what a lot of their objections are. That a lot better preparation is put into the presentation next time, ahead of time, before we ever leave here." Commissioner Martinez added, "Whoever presents this should be up to snuff on everything that has happened here." Commissioner Gennell then suggested that "The maps should be forthcoming and in order." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 20 OF 22 .:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE COMMISSION AGAIN DISCUSSED MATTERS CONCERNING THE WORKSHOP, WHICH WAS ALSO TO BE HELD THIS EVENING. .:. .:. "I'D LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE ADD ONTO THE AGENDA OF THIS SPECIAL MEETING, THE CONSIDERATION OF THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENTS THAT HAVE COME BEFORE US." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. DISCUSSION. VOTE: DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE MOTION CARRIED. ADD-ON REGULAR F. Community Development Department Requests That The City Commission And Local Planning Agency (LPA) Conduct A Workshop To Review The Recommendations Of Land Design Innovations (LDI) For The Evaluation And Appraisal Report (EAR) Based Amendments To The City Of Winter Springs Comprehensive Plan. Discussion ensued between the Commission and Mr. Tom Brown, Vice Chairm,m of the Planning and Zoning Board/Local Planning Agency. Mayor Partyka commented for the record about other discussions. Deputy Mayor McLeod spoke of when he was on the Planning and Zoning Board/Local Planning Agency and what transpired then, and stated, "I hate to see it get to that point again, and it becomes the eleventh hour, and somebody up here has to make a decision to approve something, that we really didn't have a shot at, and that's not the way it should work." Discussion. Tape 3/Side B Discussion. With consensus of the Commission, a Special Meeting was set for Tuesday, August 28th at 6:30 p.m. to review the Comprehensive Plan. Commissioner Blak.;: added, 'So, it's a Special Joint Meeting between the Planning and Zoning Board and the Commission." Commissioner Blake reiterated, "It's a Special Meeting." Commissioner Gennell stated, "And Nothing will be added on." Mayor Partyka also stated, "Nothing." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20, 2001 PAGE 21 OF 22 .:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE COMMISSION NEXT DISCUSSED THE FOLLOWING REGULAR AGENDA ITEMS, AS DOCUMENTED." .:..:. REGULAR D. Community Development Department Requests Clarification On The Notification Procedure For The Winter Sprilllgs Auto Special Exception. Commissioner Martinez departed the Meeting at 10:47 p.m. Mr. Carrington said to the Commission, "I think what you're directing the Staffto do is notify the adjacent property owners and the Tuskawilla - Trails Homeowners Association, which is Number 3. under recommendations." Commissioner Blake inquired about the planned use of this property and said, "The type of use may be somewhat a greater intensity than what we had first been led to believe, and we need to make sure that we have ample notification for the surrounding property owners, injust what this means." Manager McLemore stated, "I think the question was - do we notify the park ownership or do we have to notify each individual renter in there?" Mr. Carrington stated,. "We'll notify adjacent property owners and - the Tuskawilla Trails Homeowners Association. Is there any need to notify anyone else?" Commissioner Blake asked, "Is the property going to be posted?" Mr. Carrington, responded, "Oh yes." Commissioner Blake then asked, "With a big sign?" Mr. Carrington said, "It'll be posted." Commissioner Blake then said, "The question was - with a big sign?" Mr. Carrington said, "We don't have a big sign." Manager McLemore said, "We do have a big sign, unless it was thrown away." Mr. Carrington then advised the Commission, "I could get the Public Works Department to put the big 36 square foot sign up, if you wish, but, no we don't have one." Commissioner Blake then stated, "Well, I think we still need to revisit our entire public information system that we have, and how we notify or post things. My recommendation would be, make absolutely certain that the property is well posted and make sure that all adjacent property owners are notified, and I would also notify the Tuskawilla Trails main office so they can post it in there, on their board, if they desire to." Manager McLemore added, "And I'd prefer we'd get the big sign from Public Works." Mr. Carrington said, "That we can do." Mayor Partyka asked Commissioner Gennell for her comments. Commissioner Gennell stated, "Yes, everything that the City Manager said, and everything that Commi.ssioner Blake said, and - I just want to be sure, since it's an absentee owner of Tuskawilla Trails Mobile Home Park, I just want to make sure that we don't send one notice to Tampa, or CITY OF WINTER SPRlNGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - AUGUST 20,2001 PAGE 22 OF 22 wherever he is, and nothing ever gets posted in their clubhouse. That's what I want to be sure of." Mr. Carrington said, "We're talking about the Homeowner's Association which is made up of the people that actually live there, and we can certainly ask that they post it, but the owner is in Sarasota, and certainly we'll have to notify him," Commissioner Gennell then commented on the lengths of the leases in this Mobile Home Park. Mayor Partyka stated, "I guess the consensus is to post everything that you can." Mr. Carrington stated, "I will." REGULAR E. City Manager Requests The City Commission Consider Possible Dates For A Workshop Dealing With Code Enforcement Issues Pertaining To Animals. Discussion. The Commission agreed to hold a Workshop to address this issue on October 15, 2001. The announcement should be posted in the October issue of the "Insider. " III. ADJOURNMENT "MAYOR, I MOVE TO ADJOURN." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. DISCUSSION. VOTE: DEPUTYMAYORMcLEOD: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Mayor Partyka adjourned the Meeting at 10:58 p.m. ,Co. -. ....I. - PAGlf-P: PAR\~y~ MAYOR, ~_5-"--->- NOTE: These minutes were approved at the September 10,2001 City Commission Meeting.