HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2005 08 15 City Commission Workshop Minutes
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
WORKSHOP
AUGUST 15,2005
CALL TO ORDER
The Workshop of Monday, August 15,2005 of the City Commission was called to order
by Mayor John F. Bush at 5:00 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal
Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708).
ROLL CALL:
Mayor John F. Bush, present
Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake, arrived at 5:20 p.m.
Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present
Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore, present
Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present
City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present
City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, arrived at 6:45 p.m.
A moment of silence was followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
.:..:. AGENDA NOTE: PUBLIC INPUT WAS HELD, FOLLOWED BY THE
REST OF THE AGENDA, AS DOCUMENTED. .:. .:.
PUBLIC INPUT
City Manager Ronald W. McLemore presented information on how the Budget process
works.
Mr. Al Rocco, 953 Glen Abbey Circle, Winter Springs, Florida: asked about the 5 p.m.
start time for this Workshop and spoke briefly on a Parking Garage.
Discussion.
Mr. Edward Martinez, Jr., 205 Little Creek Lane, Winter Springs, Florida: commented
on the Budget process, Bonds, and the General Fund.
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INFORMATIONAL AGENDA
INFORMATIONAL
300. Office Of Commissioner Robert S. Miller
Budget Review.
Commissioner Robert S. Miller noted some of his Budget related concerns and regarding
Police Department funding, Commissioner Miller remarked about needing more police
staffing. Commissioner Miller added, "We need more Code Enforcement personnel, in
my opinion." With further comments, Commissioner Miller spoke of his concern for
more Police Department staff.
Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake arrived at 5:20 p.m.
PERSONNEL ISSUES:
Discussion.
Commissioner Sally McGinnis said to Manager McLemore, "I believe you and Police
Chief [Daniel J.] Kerr were working together to come up with a recommendation, an
analysis. Have you finished that?" Manager McLemore stated, "No, we have not. We
will in September be bringing answers to all these issues for your consideration."
Furthermore, Commissioner McGinnis stated, "And, that will include input - what the
Police Chief feels and - the projected needs, that is all part of that, correct?" Manager
McLemore stated, "That and others." Commissioner McGinnis stated, "Okay, thanks."
With discussion on adding Police Officers to the list of Budget Items, Commissioner
Miller said, "This, I think, needs to be moved to the top of that list."
Discussion ensued on Public Safety.
Commissioner McGinnis said to Chief Kerr, "When that Report comes out - we are
looking forward to it. One of the things that was mentioned at the National League of
Cities, which I find very alarming, is the amounts of monies that have been cut from local
Police jurisdictions." Furthermore, Commissioner McGinnis added, "I would like to
know, from you Chief [Kerr], in that Report, because I do not know, how much money
we lost on a Federal level and how that has affected some of our programs? If you would
include that, I would appreciate it."
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Regarding related costs, Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore stated, "Do we need to
increase the clerical personnel, if we would go with that? Secondly, adding twenty-five
percent (25%), what about the facilities, are we going to need another Police Station?"
Commissioner Gilmore added, "I think when the - Chief [Kerr] brings this back, which
he is going to have to do, we have to have the full cost, which means building expansion,
and cars, and motorcycles or whatever we have to do."
Regarding Code Enforcement, Commissioner Gilmore stated, "I think we do have Code
Enforcement problems throughout the City - the two (2) people - handling it may not be
adequate to satisfy the needs that the people have. So, I think we need to look at that
strongly."
Discussion.
Mayor Bush stated, "Items 1. and 2. under 'PERSONNEL [ISSUES:'] are going to be
addressed by the Report that the Manager and the Chief are going to present at the next
Budget Workshop. It will be - on August 23 rd .. ." Manager McLemore stated, "... It
probably will not be. It probably will be the first Meeting in September."
CAPITAL ISSUES:
1. Residential Traffic Calming:
With comments on "Traffic Calming", Commissioner Miller stated, "I feel very strongly
that we need to put this in our Budget and get some of these done. We have been talking
about it for four (4) or five (5) years now."
Tape I/Side B
Commissioner Miller added, "I think we need to discuss putting it into a Capital Budget
Item that gets done - on some organized manner, in the next two (2) years, or three (3)
years at the most. Both Murphy [Road] and Edgemon [Avenue] are going to have
problems with Seminole Boulevard which is going to become a four (4) lane road when
the County eventually four (4) lanes that road." Furthermore, Commissioner Miller
stated, "When that is four (4) laned, there will be five (5), six (6) times more cars going
down those roads than there are right now. So, if we are going to do it, now is the time to
do it - people would use those as cut-throughs to get where they want to go."
Commissioner Miller noted, "I would like to see us include that as a Budget Item that
would be put into a potential Bond issue." Additionally, Commissioner Miller stated, I
would like to see "Traffic Calming" for those roads and other roads that you all may
come up with, put into an issue for a Bond that we would go out for next year."
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Further discussion on "Traffic Calming" to which Commissioner Gilmore added, "We
should probably add Shetland [Avenue] to this one." Commissioner Miller asked the
City Manager to "Address the possibility of doing any of these traffic calming
requirements in the next two (2) years using gasoline tax."
2. Community/Civic Center:
On the issue of a "Civic Center", Commissioner Miller commented, "I think it is one of
those issues that we seriously need to think about putting in for a Bond and putting it on
our Budget for the next three (3) to four (4) years." Commissioner Gilmore suggested,
"If we build it, we need adequate parking also."
Discussion ensued regarding Manager McLemore taking Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs
and Commissioner Gilmore on a tour of the Longwood Community Center.
Mayor Bush said to Manager McLemore, "So this is something that could come before
the Commission at the Budget Workshop?" Manager McLemore responded, "Oh, yes.
Everything you talked about is going to be there."
3. Splash Pads:
Commissioner Miller commented on "Splash Pads" and stated, "I think we should build
'Splash Pads' as soon as we can in the Parks I have identified; which would be Trotwood,
Central Winds, Moss, Magnolia." Discussion.
Furthermore, Commissioner Miller stated, "The Staff is going to have to come back, if
we agree that we want to look into this in more detail tonight. Staff is going to have to
work the problem, come back and tell us, 'This is probably what about it would cost' and
maybe we can address it in a Bond next year, or maybe not." Mayor Bush said, "The
Commission has already asked of the Parks and Recreation Department to do just that."
Mayor Bush then said, "The Commission has already addressed the Splash Pads and I
think it will be presented to the Commission at the Workshop."
4. City Parking Garage:
The Town Center and a Parking Garage was brought up next for discussion by
Commissioner Miller.
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5. Torcaso Park Expansion:
Discussion ensued regarding expanding Torcaso Park, which Commissioner Miller
stated, "I feel very strongly that we need to have discussion soon about just converting
that land to park land and developing - an additional expansion to Torcaso Park. And I
wanted to get that on the Agenda tonight because if we are going to look for money to do
this, I would like to get it done as soon as possible with regard to the Public Works
facility. Because if that is out of here halfway through this next fiscal year, I would like
to see - all that property razed and new ball fields put in there, basketball courts."
Regarding the road behind the Fire Department, Commissioner Miller added, "It used to
be used for all of our junk vehicles that were parked in there. We spent a lot of money on
trying to take back that area of the City which has been the highest crime rate in Winter
Springs now for many, many years; and I think if we convert that to park property, it will
increase land values, it will make the people prouder that live in that area, and I think it
will bring back that area of Winter Springs." Commissioner Miller noted, "I would like
to see us - have a serious discussion about raising some funds for the conversion of that
to "Park Area" next year." Commissioner McGinnis stated, "I would agree with that."
Mayor Bush stated, "Mr. McLemore, is this something again the Commission will be
looking at?" Manager McLemore stated, "On this particular issue..." Mayor Bush
stated, "... On Torcaso Park Expansion." Discussion.
Commissioner Gilmore stated, "Ron [McLemore], will you have somebody come back at
the next Meeting with a plot plan that shows the property now there and what the City
owns, and will be vacating and what will be available so that we can at least see this on a
map?" Manager McLemore stated, "We will be more than happy to do that." Manager
McLemore added, "The City Commission has not really developed a Consensus yet on
whether to sell or keep; and it is a discussion you are going to have to get to. We are in
the process of having that property appraised because the Corps of Engineers have
changed the Wetland delineation lines on that - we are trying to understand what those
new lines are. We need that in order to be able to tell you what the property is probably
worth." Manager McLemore added, "It is coming." Mayor Bush stated, "So this will be
- something the Commission will be looking at a future Meeting?" Manager McLemore
stated, "Yes."
Discussion ensued on the Town Center, growth, and revenues.
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.:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING PUBLIC INPUT WAS AGAIN
HANDLED, AS DOCUMENTED. .:..:.
PUBLIC INPUT
Mr. Wes Rose, 955 Glen Abbey Circle, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke on the
community expanding and that residents shouldn't have to pay for a parking garage.
Mayor Bush called a Recess at 6:35 p.m.
City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese arrived at 6:45 p.m.
The Workshop reconvened at 6:55 p.m.
Tape 2/Side A
INFORMATIONAL AGENDA
INFORMATIONAL
301. Office Of The City Manager
Review Of Town Center.
1. 434 Access Plan:
Manager McLemore introduced Mr. Walter Kulash.
Mr. Walter M. Kulash, P.E., Glatting, Jackson, Kercher, Anglin, Lopez, Rinehart, 33 East
Pine Street, Orlando, Florida: addressed issues related to State Road 434 with the City
Commission.
Discussion ensued on local access to the Post Office and City Hall.
Commissioner McGinnis suggested that regarding additional signalization, "We will just
have to - make a major effort to get information to the residents of the impact of this and
how we arrived at this. I think that is very important." With further discussion,
Commissioner Miller mentioned Engineers for the Record.
Deputy Mayor Blake asked, "When will we have resolution on this issue?" Mr. Kulash
stated, "At the technician level, I would say in two (2) to three (3) weeks we will have
Consensus that there is no flaw in the process and this is what the results - everyone
agrees that this is what the results are of the process." Deputy Mayor Blake then inquired
ofMr. Kulash, "When are we going to get a 'Yes'?" Discussion.
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2. Building Heights:
Mr. Donald H. Lang, AlA, President, Lang Architectural Group, 398 West Camino
Gardens Boulevard, Suite 108, Boca Raton, Florida: addressed the City Commission on
a project "Adjacent to the City Hall here - it is on [State Road] 434 and Doran Drive."
Mr. Lang noted, "It consists of 152 units. The site is configured with five (5) main
buildings." Continuing, Mr. Lang stated, "The site is accessed on this back street through
this main access point here. The main access of the building is derived on the street
perpendicular to Doran Drive and this would be our community building.
On each side of this building, we have two (2) four (4) story buildings and then we have
two (2) three (3) story buildings on [State Road] 434 and one (1) adjacent to this property
and we are introducing a six (6) story building up to the north side of the parcel. The site,
basically the way these buildings work is each building will have a parking access point -
this one is in the center and you have covered parking and elevators for our tenants.
Some have side access points - but basically - every building will have covered parking.
In addition to the covered parking, we are providing on-site parking and some additional
site structures.
Adjacent to the community building there is a pool facility and the site is abutting - what
we think are future parks in here with big, broad sidewalks and parking, and each
building is designed with a lobby point and access - pedestrian access to Doran Drive to
promote connectivity to the street and for our tenants.
The way the site is designed is we vary the building heights to achieve architectural
diversity. We didn't need to introduce the six (6) story building which is slightly above
what the Code permits, but what this does is allowed us to achieve different scale
elements. The clubhouse is approximately two (2) stories, these go to four (4) story
buildings. The three (3) stories are in the back, which we feel were appropriate, and then
we did a six (6) story which we believe will be sensational with views to the lake."
Mr. Lang continued, "This is a rendering of three (3) stories over the one (1) ground
floor. The colors are in development, so these will not be our final colors, but we just did
different colors to show you the different massing on the buildings. This is the rendition
of a four (4) story over the ground level and this is the five (5) story which is the six (6)
stories total - this is the building that we would need your support for in order to achieve
additional height.
What we are achieving is a variety of architecture - we're achieving the street scale -
where all the buildings have access to the street, the sidewalks and we're trying to give
you a better diversity through the architecture by varying the heights."
Brief discussion followed on building heights.
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Deputy Mayor Blake asked, "Is this intended to be a controlled access development? Is
there going to be a wall around it and gates?" Mr. Lang noted, "We feel that this site -
we would have open gates during the day and then at night, we would be able to secure
the site."
Discussion.
Tape 2/Side B
Further discussion ensued on access points.
Commissioner McGinnis stated, "I would not want to support another gated community."
Discussion.
Mr. Victor Dover, A.IC.P., Dover, Kohl & Partners, 1571 Sunset Drive, Coral Gables,
Florida: spoke on gated communities.
Mr. Lang noted, "What we are going to have are these key element features - now that is
showing a fountain but that is going to be revised to a gate now." Furthermore, Mr. Lang
explained, "There are actually twelve (12) of these features throughout - on the entire
property." Additionally, Mr. Lang said, "So what you think as traditionally as walls and
fences is actually just a series of gates and access points for the public. There are twelve
(12) of them."
Commissioner Miller suggested, "I think the key issue is if you make it look friendly to
people walking through the neighborhood." Mr. Lang remarked, "What we'll do is bring
in the gates and show them to you in more detail when we're back."
Discussion.
Deputy Mayor Blake mentioned new laser pointers were needed.
Then, Deputy Mayor Blake commented on the map and noted, "When this comes back, I
would like to see some real effort to make it inclusive." Deputy Mayor Blake added,
"When it comes back, I would like to see whatever efforts are possible to make it feel
more welcoming, to make it feel more a part of the Town Center as opposed to that chunk
over there that nobody is allowed to go into, unless you have the key."
With further discussion, Mr. Lang noted, "These areas would have benches and fountains
and things that would entice people to want to be there - our residents and people that are
around the Town Center."
Discussion.
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Mayor Bush stated, "The recommendation is that the City - Commission look at
amending the Code on building heights. My only question on building heights is, is it
going to require more fire equipment?" Manager McLemore replied, "No."
Further discussion.
Mr. Dover stated, "We're going to confirm this in the Ordinance Commissioner, but the
Ordinance if I'm remembering correctly defines a number beyond which is considered
two (2) floors even ifit is a single one. We'll double check to make sure that is in there."
Furthermore, with additional discussion, Mr. Dover remarked, "Since you're going to
amend the Ordinance to make it consistent with the Comp [Comprehensive] Plan to
change the number of stories that are described - that which we go through it and find
that language and it's sufficient, we can put that in there as well. So, that way you don't
have an inadvertent number of floors with mezzanines." Commissioner Gilmore noted,
"I think floor restrictions should apply but I also think there should be a height
restriction. "
Tape 3/Side A
3. Villa Grande Drainage:
Brief discussion.
4. Parking:
Mr. Shane Doran, James Doran Company, 216 Seven Farms Drive, Suite 200,
Charleston, South Carolina: briefly spoke to the City Commission on parking.
Mr. Brian Fields, P.E., City Engineer, Public Works Department introduced information
related to parking options.
Regarding shared parking and the "Engineering" of parking data and the proposed
quantity of parking spaces, Commissioner Krebs said, "I would really like to see that
data, just to read it." Manager McLemore said, "We'll share that information with you."
With further comments, Commissioner Krebs added, "I would really like that
information. "
With discussion on lifestyle, storage options, and Town Center uses, Commissioner
Krebs remarked, "I would still like to see the data; if I could have the data - where you
got these numbers, then I could feel more comfortable." Commissioner McGinnis said,
"I think we all should."
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5. Parking Garages:
Mr. Fields led the discussion on parking garage options.
Discussion.
Tape 3/Side B
Further discussion.
Regarding locations for additional parking, Commissioner Miller suggested, "I would
like the Staff to come back with some information for us on the issue of Eminent
Domain." Commissioner Miller added, "What alternate sites are there?" Discussion.
Mayor Bush called a Recess at 9:40 p.m.
The Workshop was called back to order at 9:58 p.m.
Discussion.
Deputy Mayor Blake returned to the Commission Chambers at 10:00 p.m.
Attorney Garganese returned to the Commission Chambers at 10:00 p.m.
.:. .:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WERE DISCUSSED
COLLECTIVELY. .:..:.
6. J.D. C. Development Agreement:
7. J.D. C. Development Program:
8. J.D. C. GAP Financing:
Manager McLemore and Mr. Doran spoke for the record on upcoming plans and
Development Agreements, to which Deputy Mayor Blake remarked, "I really don't like
being pushed into a comer like this and you know that." Deputy Mayor Blake added,
"What I would look for is - the most basic minimal Agreement as possible, with follow-
on for any actual development to go through some subsequent Agreements that - do
provide planning for the entire section of the phase. Do what we need to do - to get it
closed, but understand that that is not the end of the road."
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Furthermore, Deputy Mayor Blake suggested, "I would advise getting all the absolute
requirements to get those down as quickly as possibly Ron [McLemore] and then
probably get with each one of us to make sure that there is time to address questions up
front so that you can get back to Shane [Doran] and his people - Anthony [Garganese], I
am talking to both of you, to get these issues hammered out so that in September when it
does come before us that we will be able to act upon it." Manager McLemore noted, "It
is probably going to be a very basic Agreement, like you are saying."
Further discussion.
9. JDC Balconies:
With discussion, Mr. Dover showed photographs of different styles of balconies.
Tape 4/Side A
During the discussion on balconies, Manager McLemore said to Mr. Dover, "You are
acknowledging we can have a mixture of different types, different depths, and things like
that." Mr. Dover stated, "Yes."
Mr. Doran then noted, "I am not in any way proposing getting rid of something that
protrudes at least six feet (6'), to shade the sidewalk. I agree with everything Victor
[Dover] said about variety. I agree that ifthey're all inset, it will look like an egg crate."
Further discussion.
Mr. Dover remarked, "Balconies which are provided in lieu of a downstairs awning,
marquee - or colonnade have to be six feet (6'). Balconies that are in addition to one of
those other devices for shading the level below can be less." Mr. Doran stated, "If you
clear that up, I'm done." Mr. Dover noted, "I think that's something - that one sentence
- fix on the Code would fix it."
With additional discussion on costs and styles of balconies, Commissioner Gilmore said
to Mr. Doran, "You are not building steel-frame buildings?" Mr. Doran responded, "Not
in this phase. No." Commissioner Gilmore then said to Mr. Doran, "And you are not
putting in concrete, so is it realistic to say the balcony costs twenty thousand - [dollars]
($20,000.00) a piece?" Mr. Doran replied, "No - but it is not realistic to strap a slab to
the side of a wood-framed building either." Commissioner Gilmore noted, "I would not
strap a slab on there, but there is no reason why that balcony's floor cannot be built with
a truss under it." Mr. Doran added, "Absolutely, it's done all the time."
Discussion.
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Mr. Doran further spoke briefly for the Record on balconies.
Commissioner Gilmore remarked, "In my opinion, a little diversity in these things may
be good." Commissioner McGinnis added, "I think diversity is key here." Manager
McLemore remarked, "We need to do a language fix."
9. J.D. C. 434 Access Plan:
Brief discussion.
10. J.D. C. Fire Issues:
Discussion.
Mr. Doran said, "We need clarification from the Fire Department that if we sprinkle the
building, we don't need it." Mr. Doran further explained, "What I can't get in writing
yet, is that if I sprinkle both structures - then I don't need a fire access road." Manager
McLemore said, "He has to demonstrate an access point for that building, and that can
only come either on a road built back there or on the Trail itself."
With further discussion, Manager McLemore noted, "I think we need to get to the County
right away with an Amendment to the Interlocal Amendment."
Discussion.
Tape 4/Side B
Further discussion.
Deputy Mayor Blake pointed out, "I am trying to find something that we can create that
will allow Mr. Doran to deliver to his lenders what needs to be done to give him some
surety that - this government owned property right here, at least according to us, is
available in the event of an emergency and that we have intent to use it if we need to, to
provide public safety." Attorney Garganese stated, "I can probably get with Tim
(Lallathin, Fire Chief] and maybe - from a fire protection standpoint, maybe the
Commission establishes some policy by Resolution that meets with his operational
needs."
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Furthermore, Deputy Mayor Blake added, "What I am trying to do is to provide
something in as short order as possible, and something that we have the power to do is to
provide Shane [Doran] with actual documentation that helps him get to where he needs to
be now." Furthermore, Deputy Mayor Blake suggested ifthere is time and "If all it takes
is approval by OGT [Office of Greenways & Trails], I think I can get that done,"
Manager McLemore then said, "I would be perfectly willing to have a meeting with the
three of us tomorrow, with the Fire Chief."
11. J.D. C. Expedited Agreement:
Manager McLemore introduced this topic and said, "Weare certainly willing to do our
part. The way to get things expedited is don't do things that violate the Code; require you
to go get Variances; and when a set of plans comes in the door, they need to be clean."
Regarding the review of documents, Deputy Mayor Blake said, "I think the Commission,
if the Mayor would ask them, would probably commit to meeting - extra Special
Meetings, whatever, in order to accommodate something better than a two (2) week, or
three (3) week cycle of our Meetings, in order to answer questions or respond to issues as
wel1." Mayor Bush said, "Commissioners, are you in agreement with that."
Commissioner McGinnis said, "Absolutely." There were no objections noted. Mr.
Doran said, "Thank you for that."
12. Magnolia Park:
Discussion.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Bush adjourned the Workshop at 11 :26 p.m.
RESPECTFrJLLY SUBMITTED:
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