HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2005 02 08 City Commission Workshop Minutes
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
WORKSHOP
FEBRUARY 8, 2005
CALL TO ORDER
The Workshop of Tuesday, February 8,2005 of the City Commission was called to order
by Mayor John F. Bush at 6:30 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal
Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708).
ROLL CALL:
Mayor John F. Bush, present
Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake, present
Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present
Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore, present
Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present
City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, absent
City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present
A moment of silence was held, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
INFORMATIONAL AGENDA
INFORMATIONAL
300. Community Development Department
Explore Strategies To Satisfy The City Commission's Desire To Adopt A Rural
Area Development Plan And Policy.
Brief discussion.
Ms. Eloise Sahlstrom, AICP, AS LA, Senior Planner, Community Development
Department gave a brief overview and welcomed Mr. Randall Arendt and Mr. John E.
Fernsler. Ms. Sahlstrom said to the City Commission, "To conclude this evening, we will
be able to have a little bit of a discussion from you as to how we should be proceeding, if
you could give us some direction on that, we would appreciate it."
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CITY COMMISSION
WORKSHOP - FEBRUARY 8, 2005
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Mayor Bush asked, "Eloise - did you notify Seminole County about this Workshop?"
Ms. Sahlstrom said, "Yes, we did. I actually had a PT AC (Planning Technical Advisory
Committee) Meeting on Friday and took copies of the Agenda and the Agenda Item to
the Representatives that were there, and there were Representatives from Oviedo, from
several of the other cities, Casselberry, I believe, Maitland, Altamonte Springs as well as
Seminole County."
Mr. John E. Fernsler, AlA Principal, Wallace Roberts & Todd, LLC, 191 Giralda
Avenue, Penthouse, Coral Gables, Florida: provided an overview of 'Rural' area
developments.
Discussion.
Mr. Randall Arendt, Greener Prospects, 43 Prospect Avenue, Narragansett, Rhode
Island: addressed the City Commission on "Rural Conservation Design".
Mr. Arendt presented a Presentation on "Community Planning". With discussion, Mr.
Arendt said, "I like to have a Tree Survey for any area where its not wetlands or flood
plains." Furthermore, Mr. Arendt stated, "Anything about the property that could be
useful as a form giver, I want to know and then I want to have the Staff, the Site
Designer, anybody that is voting on the plan and the abutters, do a 'Site Walk'."
Tape I/Side B
Mr. Arendt continued with his Presentation and stated, "I would advocate for - quality
neighborhood design - and quality to me is a lot of very usable user-friendly open space
that is visible, is accessible, and increases everybody's quality of life and because of that,
increases the property values." With remarks on green space, open space, and Village
Greens - Mr. Arendt noted, "This is one of the most progressive communities - I would
commend you to become more familiar with what they do in Davidson, North Carolina -
it is north of Charlotte. And they have won a number of national awards. They use the
'New Urbanism' in - certain areas of the community and 'Conservation Design' in other
areas."
Further comments.
Tape 2/Side A
With comments on the nearby Black Hammock area, Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake
stated, "What I want to do is for the City of Winter Springs to come up with some
effective policy that if a landowner were to voluntarily annex into the City of Winter
Springs from this designated area if you will, or even perhaps if the landowner already
has annexed into the City of Winter Springs in this designated area - how will we put
together an effective plan if you will, to allow development to maintain the development
standards that are currently in place or to simply not allow it to develop to any greater use
than where it is."
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CITY COMMISSION
WORKSHOP - FEBRUARY 8, 2005
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Furthermore, Deputy Mayor Blake said, "But if it were to go that direction, if the
property is going to be developed at some point in time, I would rather be in front of the
curve and have some methodology that we employed to protect the character to the extent
possible."
Discussion.
Commissioner Robert S. Miller said, "I would very much like to pursue some of the
issues that you've raised here today with them in kind of a joint discussion on how we are
going to develop all of the County lands." Then, Commissioner Miller stated, "Some of
the things you have presented here tonight I would love to see us pursue more in detail,
that being, if a landowner, even within the City of Winter Springs has let's say, ten (10)
acres - if we could create a legislation, an Ordinance that says you can have so many
units per acre on that property, but the City preserves the right to itself to bunch that up
into a certain area - or areas so that you in effect end up with what you presented here
tonight, which is open areas that just will remain green forever." Commissioner Miller
added, "I would be interested in hearing more from you, not necessarily tonight, but then
you could bring it up with the City Manager on ways that other towns have done this in
other areas ofthe country, so that the first time we do this we don't get taken to Court."
Furthermore, Commissioner Miller remarked, "I would love to see us be able to create an
Ordinance that gives us an oversight on large pieces of property that may come up for
development in the future where we can force the Developer to back away from this one
(1) unit per acre, ifits ten (10) acres, and that is what we have set aside - that is what it is
zoned as." With discussion, Commissioner Miller noted, "That is an item I would like to
see you help us with."
Additionally, Commissioner Miller then stated, "How do we craft an Ordinance, a law,
that at least puts them on notice that we are going to push this principle?" Mr. Arendt
commented that "It is the County's adherence to this notion that we will achieve those
results by hanging on to our large lots - that has to be overcome." Regarding related data,
Mr. Arendt said, "Studies have been done in many parts of the country and they've all
concluded that that large lot, low density - and development simply doesn't pay for
itself."
With further discussion, Commissioner Miller stated, "If you could give us some ideas
along these lines that I have asked - I would appreciate it."
Tape 2/Side B
Further discussion.
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
WORKSHOP - FEBRUARY 8,2005
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With further discussion on growth, Mayor Bush said, "In our situation, as Commissioner
Miller mentioned - we are pretty well getting close to build-out in terms of land that is
currently in the City. Now you can say - more land might be annexed. It seems like -
Winter Springs, Oviedo and the County are going to have to work together to come up
with a plan that reflects some of the ideas that you presented and we just can't say it's
going to be Winter Springs - by itself." Mayor Bush added, "Oviedo, Winter Springs
and probably maybe Sanford and the County have to get together to do this, not just
Winter Springs."
Mr. Arendt said, "I would expect the Developers are building what the Code allows them;
and the Code probably says you can get 'X' number of units per acre and the open space
requirement is rather small. So, their open space probably consists of unbuildable
wetlands and the Stormwater detention areas because the Code hasn't raised the bar of
excellence beyond that low level. I never blame a Developer for doing a bad job because
he's following the rules, unless he's doing a particularly bad job and not even living up to
the rules or cutting down the trees that he is not supposed to cut down. But, if he is
basically following the rules then, as Mayor Bush said - the enemy is us. We need to
look to see where rules are consistent with our vision as enunciated already in the
existing Comprehensive Plan document."
With discussion on the Black Hammock area, Mr. Arendt said, "You get much better
development when you aggregate the parcels as opposed to trying to do a good
conservation subdivision on this sixty-one (61) acre piece of this 218 acre Hammock. So,
to the extent possible, I would work with the landowners there to encourage them to
merge their lands for the purposes of conservation and development. You probably want
to make sure that the Zoning density is appropriate for the level of conservation that you
want. If you want a level of conservation that is more like sixty-five percent (65%) then
you're really going to want to have - multi-acre Zoning; the three (3) acres zoning would
work well."
Discussion.
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs stated, "Now we know better. So, I would ask the
Commissioners, what's our next step? What do we do?"
Discussion ensued on the Town Center concept.
Deputy Mayor Blake added, "I think the first step is to make the determination which we
cannot do tonight, this is a Workshop - to make the determination as to - whether or not
to accept the scope of work that has been offered to us this evening from these well-
learned Consultants or whether to shop around and speak to some other professionals."
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
WORKSHOP - FEBRUARY 8,2005
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Additionally, Deputy Mayor Blake said, "Mayor, I think what we need to do is take what
we have learned, consider it over the next week and the next week when we meet in a
Regular Meeting, either take some action at that point in time, either to follow along with
the direction that we have got, or to look elsewhere."
Commissioner Krebs suggested, "I would like to see us when we further develop, to be
sensitive to the environment."
Discussion ensued on guest parking and fire safety needs.
Commissioner Sally McGinnis stated, "What's hopeful for me and because we are almost
built out - we still have the opportunity to not continue everything we've done in the past
so that we are not just a highway of gates and walls and that is very hopeful."
With further discussion, Mr. Arendt stated, "A Workshop for Developers and their Site
Designers I think would be appropriate at some point down the road when you get to the
stage where you're talking about - real Ordinance language."
Ms. Sahlstrom introduced the incoming new Community Development Department
Director, Mr. Randy Stevenson. Brief discussion.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Bush adjourned the Workshop at approximately 9:18 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
ANDREA LORENZO-LUACES, CMC
L~
L. BROWN
PUTY CITY CLERK