HomeMy WebLinkAbout_1998 09 28 City Commission Regular Minutes
REGULAR MEETING
CITY COMMISSION
SEPTEMBER 28, 1998
The Regular Meeting of the City Commission was called to order by Mayor Paul P.
Partyka at 6:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Paul P. Partyka, present
Deputy Mayor Cindy Gennell, present
City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present
Attorney Robert Guthrie, present
COMMISSIONERS:
Robert S. Miller, present
Michael S. Blake, present
Ed Martinez, Jr., present
David McLeod, Present
Commissioner Gennell stated that she had questions regarding Consent Agenda A, B and
D and Informational Agenda B.
Bill Starmer ofFC America Soccer Club, introduced the Girls V-15 Team and the Boys
V-17 Team, thanked the athletes, coaches and the City for giving them the fields. Mr.
Starmer introduced Ron Zarbough.
Mr. Zarbough mentioned that he helps the children get athletic scholarships for soccer.
Mr. Zarbough introduced the girls and boys that were present.
Mayor Partyka read and presented a Proclamation to the Zarbough.
PUBLIC INPUT
Philip Kulbes, Glasgow Ct., congratulated the Fire Chief for his efforts and for the best
response time in the County.
CONSENT AGENDA
Finance Department
A. Requests the City Commission authorize the participation in the joint governmental
auction on October 17, 1998 at George Gideon Auctioneers, 2753 North Orange Blossom
Trail, Zellwood, Florida and approve the inclusion of surplus property as identified by the
City.
Community Development Department/Code Enforcement
B. Requests the City Commission consider the request of Armando Guarin to consider a
reduction of a Code Enforcement lien on 602 Anhinga Road from $5,675.00 to $1,700.00
as recommended by the Code Enforcement Board on March 19, 1996.
Community Development Department/Land Development Division
C. Presents to the Commission for their approval, B.F.I. 's request to change the
residential solid waste and recyclable collection days throughout most of the City.
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Police Department
D. Requesting the Commission to give approval to upgrade a 1994 Ford Van with
25,000 miles for a 1996 MercurylFord Sable with 21,000 miles
City Clerk's Office
E. Approval of minutes of August 10, 1998
F. Approval of minutes of August 17, 1998
G. Approval of minutes of August 24. 1998.
Commissioner Gennell had a question on Consent Agenda A regarding the copier.
Commissioner Gennell said she would like to know what was received for the copier at
the sale. Commissioner Gennell stated that she did not receive the attachments with her
packet and that she would like to get a copy of the attachments.
Commissioner Gennell asked about Consent Agenda B and stated that she would like to
see this item removed from the agenda entirely because she did not get the attachments
with the packet.
Commissioner Blake said he has talked to the Manager regarding this item and said he is
concerned about settling this Code Enforcement action for an amount less that what we
currently have on the books. Commissioner Blake said his main concern is that he does
not want the Commission sending the wrong sign out there to the people that if they have
a Code Enforcement problem or action and the City places a lien on the property then just
wait a couple years and come back an negotiate and maybe it will be reduced or taken
off. Commissioner Blake said the purpose of Code Enforcement and the structure of the
fines and levies that we as a City are able to put on there is to get compliance in the City
with the Codes. Commissioner Blake said Code Enforcement has been a problem in the
past and said we have made significant strides in the last year and a half in moving
towards greater compliance across the City.
Manager McLemore said this started back in 1989 and said, as he understands this was a
very "nasty" situation and ended up going to Court and said the compliance was ordered
by a Judge and compliance was gained by a Court Order. Manager McLemore said the
question came as to how do we resolve the fine and said it has been there for several
years now and said the person involved is unwilling to pay the fine and said he thinks
there has been some discussion back and forth to try to come to some settlement and what
was being recommended is that the person involved had made interest to the fact that if
we make a reasonable settlement with him he would settle it rather than stay on the books
for the next ten years or so. Manager McLemore said we are just trying to bring closure
to it, the $1,700 was based on the calculation that was done last year or the year before is
generally what it cost us to process the case. Manager McLemore said as was stated the
real issue is to not earn money off these things, the real issue is to get compliance and
said it is a judgement call.
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Attorney Guthrie stated what he suspects is what happened is that the individual that had
the fine against him appealed to Code Enforcement and in determination the Judge said
no the determination was right, you just can't foreclose on it because it's homestead
property and the Judge left the fine in place and the fine continues to accrue and so it now
comes to the Commission as a situation where it's probably not forecloseable, at this
stage but it's still out there and said the Commission can decide whether they want to
bring closure to it since the Commission has compliance.
Commissioner Blake asked why is this coming before the Commission at this point in
time; who began the process to clear this case off of the books for a lesser amount.
Charles Carrington, Community Development Director, stated that the owner of the
property, Mr. Guarin, approached Staff offering a settlement to clear the books and clear
the property and stated that Mr. Guarin is present for any questions. Mr. Carrington
stated that Mr. Guarin has offered to pay the $1,700 that (as he understands) was
recommended as a negotiated settlement by the Code Board on April 3, 1990, to settle the
lien of$5,675.00, which is recorded. Mr. Carrington said to his understanding and staffs
research of the records the recommendation of the Code Board was never brought to the
Commission and stated that it would have only been a recommendation from the Code
Board, they do not have the authority to reduce the lien, only the Commission has that
authority.
Commissioner Blake asked the nature of the original infraction that caused the action.
Mr. Carrington stated that there were two violations one in regard to Section 9.277,
dealing with off street parking and Section 6.3, dealing with the use of a building, erected
or altered in violation of the chapter, ofthe City Code.
Commissioner Martinez stated that this case has been on-going for almost ten years and
said he believes that given the situation, the violations were at some time corrected and
said the Code Board can make recommendations to the Commission as they see fit and it
is up to the Commission to act and said he would like to ask the Manager if the City is
loosing any money on this if we accept the $1,700.
Manager McLemore said the cost, as he understands it, if this was done back in 1990,
you would basically double it, if you wanted to get the same dollar value as back in 1990,
because of the loss of the value of money. At that point in time, it was his (Manager)
understanding is that is what they felt the cost was in 1990.
Commissioner Martinez said in view of the facts and said this is a second
recommendation from the Code Enforcement Board, the first wasn't brought to the
Commission and li(1f it is, and said he recommends that this matter be settled and get it
off the records. t..)otO
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Commissioner Miller said there is a reference in the packet to a garage door and said he
assumes that there were a lot of cars parked on the property and some alternations made
to the residence and asked what the garage door had to do with it.
Mr. Carrington said he was not sure and said there were alterations made without the
appropriate permits and there were vehicles parked on the lot that were unauthorized and
stated he really does not know the specifics of the case.
Commissioner Miller said his concern is that if the City has Codes and the mechanism to
try to make people comply with the Codes so that we have a City that we all enjoy living
in, said he would not like to see all these come forth in the future.
Attorney Guthrie stated that the law was changed and said it is made clear who controls
the land and that right is vested in the governing body that created the Code Board. The
Code Board can make the recommendation, but the entity that controls the disposition of
the lien is the governing body now.
Commissioner Miller said it is his observation that if ten years has gone by since a Judge
rendered his decision that this was enforceable then we at least should try and reclaim our
cost plus whatever current value be assessed to that.
Motion was made by Commissioner McLeod that the Commission approves Agenda
Items A through E on the Consent Agenda. Seconded by Commissioner Martinez.
Discussion. Commissioner Gennell said it seems clear to her that at the time that
this went to the Judge, that the City Attorney went back to the Commission and
back to the Judge and said that he was not empowered to settle this for any less at
that time and the Judge upheld it and said we have a Code Enforcement Board and
even part of the problem that we had with Code Enforcement all along has been
that the time frame was so strung out because people had so much time to rectify
their violations, and said she does not see any room for leeway here if the
Commission is going to stand behind the Code Board and behind the fines we have
in place and said she won't vote in favor of approving the whole Consent Agenda
including that item. Commissioner Blake said the Commission specifically asked to
have Item B taken off the Consent Agenda and Item D was to be discussed as well,
which it hasn't and said he doesn't know if the maker of the motion wants to discuss
those items now or pull the motion and rearrange the agenda. Mayor Partyka said
that is correct Item D was asked to be talked about so the motion to approve A
through E, excluding D because that was listed an Item for discussion and said
everything still would apply except Item D because that needs to be discussed.
Commissioner McLeod said his motion still stands and stated that the Consent
Agenda Items ought to be Consent Agendas and said if they are open to so much
discussion then he thinks they need to be put on the Regular Agenda and stop the
Consent Agendas. Mayor Partyka said he agrees with that but from a point of
order, that motion has to exclude D. Attorney Guthrie said if someone wants to
make a substitute motion with Band D, may solve this problem. Commissioner
McLeod stated that he will remove Consent Agenda Item D from the motion. The
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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maker of the Seconded agreed. Commissioner McLeod said he would like to remind
Commissioner Gennell that we do have a Code Enforcement Board and it is their
recommendation that we settle this. Commissioner Blake stated he will not be able
to support the current motion on the floor as it includes Item B and said he thinks
it's a travesty that we would consider a motion of this sort, specifically with the
three hours that we spend here prior to this meeting to see the type of City that we
are trying to build here to allow an individuals that have been in violation of Codes,
that have been upheld by the Courts and had liens filed and recorded, to allow them
at a later date to come here and negotiate lower numbers when it's convenient to
them and said he can't support the signal that sends to our community.
Commissioner Martinez reiterated what Commissioner McLeod stated and that is
that this is a recommendation by the Code Enforcement Board, we are not going
behind that Board, in trying to over-rule them, we are trying to settle an issue that
they recommend be settled because this is ten years old and the rules in 89 are much
different than they are today and said he thinks if the City has any such cases, we
should get rid of them and start fresh; we have a great Code Enforcement Board
that is doing a great job and we are supporting them 100% and said this is an old
case and if we have an opportunity to get our money that we invested in this back,
and have it done and over with, fine. Commissioner Gennell read a portion of the
minutes from the Code Enforcement Board on March 19, 1996 - "the motion - the
Code Enforcement Board accepts the settlement agreement of $1,700 as
recommended by the City in lieu of...." and stated that she can only assume given
what we have in front of us that the Staff or some representative from the City
Administration brought to the Code Enforcement Board this suggestion rather than
the Code Enforcement Board suggesting it to the Staff and City. Commissioner
Gennell said she will make an amendment to the motion and MOVED TO AMEND
THE FIRST MOTION TO EXCLUDE ITEM B ALSO. SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER BLAKE. V ote: Commissioner Miller: aye; Commissioner
Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: nay. Mayor Partyka stated the motion passes and
therefore Item B will be set up to be discussed separately. Mayor Partyka said now
back to the original motion and that is to approve Consent Agenda Items A, C, E, F
and G. Vote: Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye;
Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Miller:
aye. Motion passes.
Discussion on Consent Agenda Item B.
Motion was made by Commissioner Gennell stated that she now has had an
opportunity to read the entire packet that was given to her by one of the other
Commissioners and discussion and understanding that she moves to deny Consent
Agenda Item B. Manager McLemore said he is concerned with an item of this type
where there is a lot of discussion and where the party directly involved has
demonstrated a wish to speak and he is not being afforded a wish to speak before
the Commission votes. Seconded by Commissioner Miller. Discussion. Mr.
Armando Guarin, 602 Anhinga Road, gave the Commission a background on this
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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case. Mr. Guarin stated that the house was abandoned for two years before he
bought it, and that it was a model home and said one of the requirements was that
he was to put in a driveway. Mr. Guarin said he bought the home and put in the
driveway and within 20 days he received a letter saying he was in violation of the
Homeowners Association and said finally he went to Court and said he agreed in
front of the Judge to pay this amount of money, and stated that since he did not
receive any bills form the City, he had forgotten about it and said he now is trying to
refinance his home and this is when he found out that he owed $5,675.00 and said he
didn't know that he owed that much only what was agreed to with the Judge and
that was $1,700. Discussion.
Mayor Partyka said to clarify, in reading the minutes of the Code Board, in 1994 and
1996, the amount had changed and said evidently it is an on-going figure until 1996 when
the City Attorney and City Manager came up with the figure of $1,700.
Attorney Guthrie said apparently that was a settlement opportunity.
Mayor Partyka said at that point in time, the case was given to the Code Enforcement
Board, the $1,700 figure, and the Code Enforcement Board agreed with that
recommendation, and said what the initial figure was, it is not very clear but it did accrue
to the $5,675 figure and then that figure was adjusted to $1,700 in 1996.
Mr. Guarin said the main complaint was because he had french doors and the
homeowners Association wanted them changed to a garage door.
Discussion on the events leading up to this date.
Commissioner McLeod said he would like to remind the Commission that there are so
many issues in the City that we should deal with and said this is basically a simple
business decision and said if he was making the decision he would make a decision to
settle this, get rid of it, it's cost us time and Attorney fees and said we now have been
another hour this evening and said it is not undermining the Code Enforcement Board,
and said the Code Enforcement Board also made a recommendation and said the
Commission needs to take a strong look at it just as good common sense business and get
on with it.
Vote on the motion to deny the request: Commissioner Martinez: nay;
Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: nay; Commissioner Miller:
aye; Commissioner Blake: nay. Motion denied.
Discussion on this item.
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake that the City makes an offer of settlement
with Mr. Guarin in the amount of $2,837.50, and that must be settled by the end of
November of this year the $2,837.50. Seconded by Commissioner Miller. Vote:
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Commissioner Gennell: nay; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Miller;
aye; Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: nay. Motion passes.
Mayor Partyka stated to Mr. Guarin that the motion means that the Commission is willing
to satisfy this case if he happens to pay $2,837.50 by end of November. Mayor Partyka
stated that Mr. Guarin as a citizen has a right to appeal this or also not to do anything and
continue with the lien on his property and come back again.
Mr. Guarin said he is going to appeal because the Judge is the one who told him $1,700
and what was agreed on.
Commissioner Blake said he appreciates what Mr. Guarin has said, but as of December
1 st of this year the amount goes back to $5,675, and said Mr. Guarin should consider that
and how he uses his time between now and then. Commissioner Blake stated that he is
taking into consideration some of Mr. Guarin's special circumstances that he has talked
about and said he (Blake) feels this is a fair settlement.
Mayor Partyka asked Attorney Guthrie for a legal interpretation.
Attorney Guthrie said if the question is what is the mechanism for appealing is and said
he thinks Mr. Guarin's only opportunity would be to file a declaratory action and
possibly he could get an interpretation under the old pending case if it is still around but
stated this is not an automatic appeal.
Mayor Partyka said the recommendation from the Code Enforcement Board if $1,700
from the original $5,675 and said the fact that the Commission voted in the amount of
$2837.50, and asked if that automatically goes to $5,675.
Attorney Guthrie said the Commission controls the lien today, because it is beyond the
Chapter 162, the Commission has the power to reduce it or not reduce and said he thinks
the Commission can condition that and did state that this case is unusual and said it is
conditioned and said he is not aware of anything that says the Commission can't do that.
Discussion on Consent Agenda Item D.
Commissioner Gennell asked if this means that we will not have to buy a car for one of
the extra police officers that we have put on recently.
Captain Glenn Tolleson said that is correct.
Motion was made by Commissioner Martinez to approve Consent Agenda Item D.
Seconded by Commissioner Blake. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner McLeod: aye;
Commissioner Miller: aye; Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye;
Commissioner Gennell: aye. Motion passes.
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INFORMATIONAL AGENDA
Community Development Department/Planning Division
A. Informing the Commission that the City's Greenways and Trails application for
acquisition of key connected greenspace within the Town Center was recommended for
approval by the Florida Recreational Trails Council on September 19, 1998. Final
approval must be granted by the Department of Environmental Protection Secretary
Virginia Weatherall.
Mayor's Office
B. Procedure to fine a new City Attorney
City Manager McLemore stated that we are very happy to learn that our Grant proposal
was approved by the Office of Greenways and Trails for the Town Center, which
basically provides for 5 million dollars for the acquisition for the properties that we call
the environmental "footprint" of the property and said it is important in the series of steps
that we need to take to make this dream become a reality. Manager McLemore said there
was a tremendous amount of work on the part of the Staff to get this done and said he
would like to tell Mr. Carrington and his people and thanked the Commissioners who
attended the Tallahassee Trip thank you. Manager McLemore said there is a lot of work
to do now in order to acquire the property now that the funds are available; we are
moving very rapidly now in getting that done (acquiring the property) and stated that this
is a great and positive step for the City in getting the Town Center to a point of reality.
Commissioner Blake said to the Manager "this land has very limited uses that would be
available once a purchase of this sort takes place" is that correct.
Manager McLemore said once this land is acquired with the grant funds, then it would
become State property and it can only be used for environmental preservation; it could be
used for some limited amounts of conservation use, but could never be used for buildings.
Commissioner Blake asked if that means no concrete at all.
Manager McLemore said it could be some brick and mortar as related to a recreational or
passive recreational purpose.
Commissioner Blake said once this land is purchased through this trust and is owned by
the State, is it ever possible to take it out of that trust.
Manager McLemore said he doesn't believe it is.
Commissioner Blake said he would suggest that we be very careful about which lands we
want to include under this sort of ownership as we move forward.
Commissioner Miller said for the people present, this shows that this is going forward
and said he would like to congratulate the City Manager, Mr. Carrington and all the other
City Staff that has spend a lot of hours and dedicated time. Commissioner Miller said he
gives his heartfelt thanks for making this move along like it is.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Discussion on Informational Agenda Item B.
Mayor Partyka read a memo that he gave to the Commission. "On this whole new
Attorney issue, we still need a City Attorney. As background from a practical standpoint,
the City has been without the services for over a year. We've had Mr. Guthrie as a temp,
and unfortunately Attorney bills continue accrue and Mr. Guthrie's monthly invoice for
service has been just short of $10,000 per month since January. Anticipating our little
Attorney issue to be resolved, I would like to start the appointment process. I'm here to
ask the input from the City Commissioners on Attorney firms that may possibly not be
acceptable to the City Commission. I would like to have the City Commissioners
comments by next Monday, October 5th, that's a week from now, it gives time for
everybody to think about it. And, during the interim, I will help determine the "request to
reply letter" with the help of the City Manager and recently by the way Altamonte
Springs sent out a similar letter during their process of finding a City Attorney and we
may use some of their points if appropriate. The final letter will be sent out to all
appropriate firms requesting that they apply for the City Attorney position and it is my
hope that we could have firms apply and someone appointed as early as the end of
October. Again, feel free to make any suggestions on the process as you see fit. Mayor
Paul Partyka".
Mayor Partyka said that is about as simple as he can say it and the fact of the matter is we
are in a position that we don't have a City Attorney at this point.
Mayor Partyka asked if there were any comments from the Commission.
Commissioner Gennell said she doesn't think the discussion on this issue is appropriate at
this time as we're engaged in a legal issue with the Mayor over this very issue.
Commissioner Gennell said the Mayor has already catapulted it out of the hands of this
Commission right now and said from where she sits, she does see a City Attorney over
there and said he's bee the City Attorney through Kruppenbacher and Associates is still
the firm that we have. We have their resignation in hand should we decide to accept it at
the termination of this case; but we asked you not to get into this case, we pleaded with
you each one of us and you went on ahead and said as a matter of fact we asked you to
use an Attorney of our choosing and you opted to go out the way you did. Commissioner
Gennell said she is sorry if the Mayor finds himself in an awkward position, and said the
Mayor put him self there and stated that she thinks this is inappropriate because we're in
a legal process and said she thinks the process has to go forward so the City knows where
it stands, the City is already confused over this issue
Commissioner Martinez said he joins Commissioner Gennell in adding that this is very
inappropriate and improper due to the fact that we have litigation pending in the Court
system, in the form of an appeal and beyond that the Mayor's Attorneys have instructed
the Attorney representing the City and the Commissioners that they were to detach
themselves from the Commissioners and that the Commission would have to hire their
own Attorneys at an added expense to the City and stated this is what the Mayor's
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Attorney is doing and said it's not ours and said he thinks it would be improper for us to
enter into dialog of any kind in this situation while there is litigation pending in the
Courts. Commissioner Martinez said to Mayor Partyka, that this could be easily resolved
all the Mayor has to do is go back to Court and withdraw your lawsuit against the
Commission and we can sit down and do just what you are suggesting here.
Commissioner Miller echoed the comments of the previous two Commissioners and said
for a point of clarification for the general public, the Mayor read into the record that the
Attorney is charging $10,000 per month and said that most Attorneys today that work for
most Cities around here are being paid $180 to $250 per hour and with attending two
regular scheduled meetings per month and working with the City on ordinances and
things that we pass consumes the rest of it and said not to make the mistake that $10,000
is a high amount of money, it is part of the cost of doing City business.
Commissioner Blake asked Mr. Guthrie what is his hourly rate that he is charging the
City.
Attorney Guthrie said $90.00 per hour.
Commissioner Blake asked if Attorney Guthrie agreed that the monthly bills have been
just short of $1 0,00 an month on average.
Attorney Guthrie said that is including expenses and that is correct and stated that there
has a lot that has been asked of him to do and he has done it.
Commissioner Blake asked if that amount is a lot for a $25 million dollar a year
operation.
Mayor Partyka said he feels it is for a temp. Attorney.
Mayor Partyka said he has given the Commission his pOSItion on this and if the
Commission does not want to make any recommendations or make their comments
known that if fine and said he has looked at the analysis on this and said it is a lot of
money that the City is spending on an Attorney that the City really doesn't have as a City
Attorney and said at some point in time the City has to face that fact.
Mayor Partyka said the suit is not a suit against the Commissioners it's always been a
declaratory judgement and said the Courts have ruled in his favor and said he has no
more comments on this from his standpoint.
Commissioner McLeod said it is his understanding that Mr. Kruppenbacher is still the
City Attorney and Mr. Guthrie is an associate of his and said Mr. Guthrie has the
assistance of Mr. Kruppenbacher to take information back and ask questions and have
input and said he thinks Mr. Kruppenbacher has been involved and said that Mr.
Kruppenbacher's firm still represents the City. Commissioner McLeod said that Mr.
Kruppenbacher had asked to have Mr. Guthrie here in his position by the City
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Commission until this thing is resolved. Commissioner McLeod said he thinks the
Mayor has a difference of opinion on that and said that has been part of the problem but
as far as the legal fees, I think Kruppenbacher and Associates legal fees have been in line
for several years for this City. Commissioner McLeod asked if the Mayor had gone back
to see when the last time Mr. Kruppenbacher's firm had an increase in their hourly rate.
Mayor Partyka said yes, in 1990.
Commissioner McLeod stated that he did not want to use the firm of Leffler &
Associates.
Commissioner Gennell said since we have a Judge that rendered an opinion, said she is
not sure that the Mayor could withdraw his complaint because the judgement is already
out there.
Attorney Guthrie said it is on appeal to the 5th D.C.A. right now and that is where
jurisdiction is but there may be a procedural way to have the judgement set aside and case
dismissed; there may be a procedural way to do that if that's an option if anyone wants to
look at.
Commissioner Gennell said in an abundance of caution, the Commission needs to be very
careful proceeding along those lines with that judgement already out there.
Commissioner Gennell said as stewards of the City, she thinks it incumbent of the
Commission to go forward in their best judgement of what's best for the City which is an
appeal at this time.
Ifthere is something out there and that's the Mayor's wishes then he could bring it back
but at this point she is in favor in preceding the way the Commission decided to.
Commissioner Martinez said that the Mayor astutely "placed the ball in the
Commission's court" and said this is a matter that the Mayor brought upon the City and
upon the Commission and said the issue went to Court and a lower Court for whatever
reason, saw fit to rule in the Mayor's favor. It doesn't mean that the Court has ruled in
the Mayor's favor, it's an appeal procedure pending in a higher Court and when that
ruling comes down that will the final ruling by which we have to abide, not the ruling of
the lower Court. Commissioner Martinez said as far as Attorney's bills are concerned,
let's say that the Mayor has been responsible for us having to hire an Attorney to defend
the Commission and now we are faced with additional legal expense because the Mayor's
Attorney's went to Court and asked the Judge that they separate the Attorney defending
the City from the Commissioners and now the Judge has decided that the Commission
has to hire their own Attorneys to defend our position at the expense of the City.
Commissioner Martinez said the Mayor has had ample opportunity to have settled this
issue and hold a workshop with the Commission to decide on an attorney to represent the
City on a permanent basis and the Mayor has not chosen to do so.
Motion was made by Commissioner Martinez to accept Informational Agenda A.
Seconded by Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. Commissioner Miller: aye;
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September 28.1998 97-98-44
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Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion passes.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
City Manager
A. Requesting the City Commission hold a Public Hearing relative to the approval of
Resolution No. 866, setting the Final Milage Rate at 3.600 Mils or an alternative rate the
Commission deems appropriate and adoption of same, and relative to the adoption of the
Second Reading of Ordinance No. 705 establishing the Final Budget for Fiscal Year
1998-1999:
Manager McLemore stated that there are two actions that are needed relative to adoption
of the budget. One is to adopt the milage and the second is the second hearing on the
adoption of the budget ordinance. Manager McLemore stated that the Commission has
the powers tonight to amend the budget and certainly the powers to set the milage.
Manager McLemore said first the Commission needs to deal with the milage. In the
agenda package Item A sets out the roll back rate at 3.5175 mils and if the Commission
chooses to go with the roll back, it would be a zero increase in the milage. The current
milage is 3.6000 would represent a 2.34% increase in the City's budget and stated that he
has given the Commission another alternative to look at which is a small reduction in the
milage at 3.5495 which would be a just under 1 % increase. Manager McLemore said he
has given the Commission information on things to consider relative to holding the
milage at 3.6000.
Manager McLemore mentioned grafts that the Commission has in their packet.
Harry Martin, Finance Director, reviewed the grafts with the Commission. Discussion.
Mayor Partyka said under legal services in FY 98-99, under other legal services, asked of
the $100,000, what part of that is going to be used for potential appeal process on the
declaratory judgement issue of the City Attorney, is that $30,000 or $40,000, that the
Commission has asked for.
Manager McLemore said that was placed under Special Legal Services and pro-rated a
portion for the year that we are in, which will probably be the predominance of the cost
and then pro-rated a portion into next year and said he believes that in next year's budget
we pro-rated $25,000.
Commissioner Blake said it is $25,000 line item 53119.
Mayor Partyka said $25,000 for special services on the appeal specifically. Mayor
Partyka asked if a part of the $100,000 was for the appeal.
Manager McLemore said the $100,000 is for general type of legal work that is done every
year.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 13
Manager McLemore said for special lawsuit litigation's; we have set that out this year as
a separate number.
Mayor Partyka asked how much of the $125,000 was planed for the appeal process on the
declaratory judgement.
Manager McLemore said none of that, there are three items there, one is the basic retainer
which is the $500.00 per month; then there is the "other" which is the general kinds of
work that your Attorney does for the City day to day; and then there is the special
litigation and the place where we will charge-off the litigation that the Mayor and the
Commission is involved in will be under "Special Legal Services".
Mayor Partyka said ifhe recalls under the "Special" from a workshop was approximately
$30,000 potentially. Manager McLemore said as he remembers he thinks it is in that
range.
Mayor Partyka stated that his point is (and said this will not be something new) he is
going to submit this: he is the Mayor of the City and he is suppose to representing the
taxpayers as well as the City Commission and from a fiscal responsibility standpoint to
appeal, not a suit, a declaratory judgement that the City Commission has voted on, may
the motion to do it and where the Courts have ruled already in favor of the Charter, it's
irresponsible that we should allow this kind of money to be spent for legal services on an
appeal that will probably end up in the same position. Mayor Partyka said his position
would be is, we should eliminate of the $125,000 at least $30,000 of that and the reason
he is saying this is he urges the Commissioners not to go along with this suit and it's just
wasting money and said that is his position and he feels very strongly about that from a
budgetary standpoint and representing the taxpayers throughout this whole "mess".
Commissioner Blake, said point of order, the subject the Mayor is discussing is the next
agenda item.
Mayor Partyka said he is just talking about clarifying some expenditure here and where
his position is on this expenditure and said he is in the right position.
Commissioner Blake said the no, the next item on the agenda deals with the budget,
currently we are talking about the milage rate.
Mayor Partyka said if you take the money off, the milage drops and said what he
ultimately is saying is if $30,000 is taken away the milage would drop to somewhere
about 3.56 mils so we are saving the money for the taxpayers and said that is again
another way of reducing the milage rate for the citizens ofthis City.
Commissioner McLeod said he disagrees with the Mayor on this issue and stated that he
thinks the Commission does not need to take $30,000 out but needs to add $30,000 more
because he thinks the Commission needs to defend this right to the "hilt" and said
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 14
originally the Commission talked about $50,000 or $60,000 and reduced it and said that
maybe the Commission misjudged that.
Commissioner Miller said he has a sure fire way of agreeing with the Mayor, there's a
way we can do this, if the Mayor will drop his lawsuit against the Charter of this City, to
get his way, we can proceed tonight. We can save the taxpayers an increase in the milage
rate, or whatever it is that the Mayor said we're going to do, by saving that tax money
and said so he is asking the Mayor to drop the suit right now and the Commission can get
on with all the business the Mayor wants to get on with.
Mayor Partyka said he has no suit against the City.
Commissioner Miller said then the suit against him.
Mayor Partyka said he didn't have a suit against Commissioner Miller.
Commissioner Miller said then drop the declaratory suit, and said it is starting to be like
President Clinton, the Mayor will debate the word "is" next.
Mayor Partyka said no, Commissioner, the Courts have ruled already on what the Charter
says the Charter is the Charter and said he has no power to change the Charter.
Commissioner Martinez said he again is going to reiterate, that the Mayor has "put the
ball in the Commission's court" and said if the Mayor had not gone to Court, the City
would be $30,000 richer and said if the Mayor had not now insisted that the Commission
get their own lawyers, which is going to add to the legal fees, the City would be that
much richer also and said the Mayor should not try to "put the ball in the Commission's
court" the Mayor did it. Commissioner Martinez said it is very clear, if the Mayor hadn't
taken the Commission to Court, the City would be $30,000 richer and if the Mayor hadn't
done what he did now, which is the next step coming, the City would be that much richer
and the taxpayers would be that much richer, so it's on the Mayor, it's not on the
Commission.
Mayor Partyka said as a point of order, the motion was made by the Commission to go to
Court and ask for a declaratory judgement, he never made the motion, the Commission
did, they never rescinded the motion; we got the declaratory judgement, to the
Commission's wishes and not we are going to appeal. Mayor Partyka said that is the
budget issue; he has made his point and said he clarified the issue on who made the actual
motion and said at this point let's go on.
Mayor Partyka closed the Regular Meeting and opened the Public Hearing and asked if
anyone present wished to speak. No one wished to speak on this item. Mayor Partyka
closed the Public Hearing and reconvened the Regular Meeting.
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake that the City of Winter Springs sets it's
1998-1999 milage rate at 3.5495 mils. Seconded by Commissioner Martinez.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28. 1998 97-98-44
Page 15
Discussion. Mayor Partyka stated that there is a possibility that he may Veto the
budget based on the fact that the Commission is spending too much money on legal
fees. Vote: Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner
Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Miller: aye. Motion
passes.
City Manager
B. Requesting the City Commission hold a Public Hearing relative to the approval of the
Second Reading of Ordinance No. 705, establishing the Final Budget for Fiscal Year
1998-1999:
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake to read Ord. 705 by title only. Seconded
by Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. V ote: Commissioner Martinez: aye;
Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Miller:
aye; Commissioner Blake: aye. Motion passes.
Attorney Guthrie read Ord. No. 705 by title only on Second Reading.
Manager McLemore said unless the Commission has any additional deletions, he doesn't
have any comments.
Commissioner Blake said asked if it is delineated the cost stream for the Concession
Stand at Central Winds Park.
Manager McLemore said there is a number for Concession Revenue. Commissioner
Blake said he has the revenues and added that it is down significantly.
Mr. Martin stated that the expense is in the Recreation Department as operating supplies.
Commissioner Blake asked how much did the Concession Stand loose in the current year.
Mr. Martin said he could not answer that as the Finance Department does not keep a
record of revenue expenses and stated that he could have that information in the morning.
Commissioner Blake stated that the revenue end has gone down about 25% in the most
recent year and said it went down from $97,025.00 down to $70,000 in that year and said
he has to believe that the City's cost did not go down by that much, given that a large part
of the cost is in personnel and said he would be very much in favor for the next two years
or until the City gets a trail head operation out there, that the City shut down the
concession operation at Central Winds Park and put in it's place either a secure vending
machine operation inside that would be opened whenever the park is open and when not
it isn't for security. Alternatively, to have an independent operator come in, and said he
doesn't like that idea very much, and said he thinks a vending machine operation is
probably the way to go. Commissioner Blake said he thinks that the City is probably
loosing $20,000 to $30,000 on this operation and said it's moving in the wrong direction.
A couple of years ago, the Commission gave the concession stand a couple of years and
tried some initiatives and said we got some revenue that year but said it has never made
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 16
money. Commissioner Blake said he is a heavy user of the park and appreciates the fact
that it's there, but it is a question of how much the City's going to continue to subsidize it
and said he thinks it's time to "pull the plug".
Manager McLemore said he doesn't necessarily disagree with Commissioner Blake other
the policy statement that the Commission has had in the past that the Commission would
rather have the connivance of those things that don't sell very well but people like to
order rather than just limiting it to those things that are the high sales items but not
necessarily the things people would like to buy the most. Manager McLemore said that is
a policy decision for the Commission to make and said he suggests that he would like to
do this report and come back to the Commission at the next meeting and make the
decision at that point in time after some discussion.
Commissioner Blake said that would be fine as long as the Commission is sure they have
all the costs associated with the true operation.
It was the consensus of the Commission to have that comes back.
Commissioner Gennell said she is going to address the Mayor's comments now that were
directed toward the budget and the legal fees. Commissioner Gennell said what the
Mayor would be asking the Commission to do is to be derelict in their duty because the
Commission unanimously determined that, for one thing we swore to uphold this City
and the Charter and the good of the citizens of this City. We unanimously as a
Commission, sat here and decided that it was in the best interest of this City to go
forward with this appeal. By the Mayor using any kind of obstructions tactics to prevent
the Commission from doing what the Commission knows is in the best interest of the
City, the Mayor is asking the Commission to be derelict in their duties and stated that she
resents that.
Commissioner Martinez said to the Attorney that the Mayor has stated that he is going to
Veto this ordinance and asked does that mean the City will be paralyzed because there
will be no action taken for ten days.
Attorney Guthrie said no we wouldn't be paralyzed, there is a provision in State Law that
if you don't have a budget adopted, I think you revert to last year's budget and said he
will look and verify that. Attorney Guthrie said what will get awkward will be the action
on the Veto, another Public Hearing that has to take the quarter page ad and that
expensive process and said he doesn't know the answer to that without looking at it.
Commissioner Martinez said he wishes the Attorney research that and come back and tell
the Commission what it is and how much it will cost.
Commissioner Miller asked what is the amount for the legal fees that the Mayor is going
to veto the budget for, is it $30,000.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 17
Mayor Partyka said he stated that he potentially may veto this budget for the excessive
legal fees that we are projecting in this budget and his projection is $40,000 and said he
ultimately worked out a milage for $30,000 based on the clarification here and said the
milage would drop to 3.5165 and said yes that is right.
Commissioner Miller said then the Mayor may veto the budget for $30,000. Mayor
Partyka said he may.
Commissioner Miller asked what percentage is the legal fees of the total budget.
Commissioner Blake said it is .0064. Commissioner Miller said then the $30,000 would
be what percentage. Commissioner Blake said it would be a number somewhat smaller
than the .0064. Commissioner Miller said he would like to remind the Mayor that if this
is what he intends, the budget for legal fees for 1997 is $235,000 and said he would just
ask the Mayor to seriously consider what he is about to do if he is going to take this
course because we are talking about a number which borders, if not on the ridiculous and
on the sublime because .0003 the Mayor is putting the City through an exercise it
shouldn't have to go through for an issue like this and said however if the Mayor chooses
to do it, so be it.
Commissioner McLeod said he doesn't think that if the Mayor chooses to Veto this he
would be really responding in the interest of the people, and said he thinks the Mayor
would be self-serving and said he doesn't think that is what the Mayor is up here for and
said he thinks it would be very irresponsible and asked the Mayor what is he basing his
figure on - that the basic legal services is too high and asked the Mayor if he has other
Cities comparisons.
Mayor Partyka said no, he has stated again for the record that in this budget there is a
figure that allows for payment of the appeal process for this declaratory judgement ruling.
Commissioner McLeod said that is a legal fee that this Commission has the right to put in
there and it is really a fee that we look at may cost to appeal what the Mayor put out
there.
Mayor Partyka said he is a taxpayer of this City and said he thinks what this Commission
is doing is irresponsible because we have done what the Commission has asked, the
Courts have ruled on a declaratory judgement, not a suit, and this appeal process is
unnecessary and if it is unnecessary then we should stop it right now and said and he as
his power of this Board, has the right to ask questions on every issue as the Commission
had the right. Mayor Partyka said it comes down to if the Commission disagrees with his
position then the Commission over-rides him, if the people do not like the Commission's
decision they over-ride the Commission with an election and if the people thinks that he
(Mayor) is doing a bad job, they won't vote him in again, and said this is part of the
democratic process of questioning and if these .0001 's or percentages were so important
or so unimportant, no one would care about milages, but people do care about milages
and said again he stated his position and that this is part of the democratic process and not
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 18
to take it personal and said he has an opinion the Commission has other opinions and said
we vote eventually and the process will win out.
Commissioner McLeod said he thinks it is very self-serving of the Mayor and said he
doesn't think the Mayor is necessarily serving the people on this issue. Commissioner
McLeod said he hopes the Mayor considers not vetoing the City's budget.
Mayor Partyka said he will consider that.
Commissioner Gennell said on the past year's budget for legal fees. Commissioner Blake
said it was $235,454 for 1997. Commissioner Gennell asked what will it be for this year.
Commissioner Blake said it looks like it will be $156,000. Commissioner Gennell said
the proposed budget would be what. Commissioner Blake said the proposed if $131 ,000.
Commissioner Gennell asked the Attorney what action does it take to revise the budget,
is it an ordinance or resolution.
Attorney Guthrie said within certain line items, there is the ability to make adjustments, if
there is a dramatic change or increase, an ordinance is required. Attorney Guthrie said
within certain categories he thinks changes could be make by budget amendment that he
thinks is done by resolution periodically.
Mr. Martin said line code transfers within a Department is approved by the City Manager
and said monies moved from one Department to another takes Commission approval,
which in this case would be another ordinance because if approved by ordinance it would
be changed by ordinance, unless it is set up where the Commission set's it up where it
can be changed by resolution.
Commissioner Gennell said on the one hand it looks like the Mayor could be doing us a
favor because he would actually be increasing the line item for all the combined legal
expenses from what's proposed, the $131,000 increasing it to $156,000 and said she
doesn't see this as insurmountable, if the Mayor is that irresponsible to put the
Commission through that kind of exercise and aggravation and further disrupt the City's
operations, the Commission will do what they have to do.
Commissioner Martinez said for the record, it is a sad day in the history of The City of
Winter Springs when a Mayor uses the City budget on a night when it is as close as three
days away from the deadline for the budget for political expediency, telling the people
here that if they don't like the Commission they should vote them out and if they don't
like the Mayor, they should vote him out and said like Commissioner McLeod stated that
is very self-serving. Commissioner Martinez said it wasn't warranted because we are
discussing the budget not discussing the elections and said he thinks the Mayor was
totally out of place and the Mayor should never have made that statement because the
Commission can go out an campaign too.
Commissioner Blake stated he doesn't have a problem with the Mayor questioning line
items in the budget as we are trying to keep this budget as lean as it can possibly be and
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 19
still provide full service community for our taxpayers and citizens, in which all of us are
one. Commissioner Blake said what does concern him is the Mayor's continual reference
to the democratic process and said this suit, that the Mayor filed, he is the plaintiff, where
a decision has been rendered by a lower Court, that many people disagree with, no all
people, but many people disagree with and said and part of our democratic process in the
United States of America, is that when a decision of that sort is handed down by a lower
Court there are procedures available called the appeals process, and said it is interesting
to note that the Mayor doesn't consider that to be part of the democratic process and said
what is also interesting is in the Mayor's own pleadings in the case filed against the
Commission, several of the cases sited in the Mayor's pleadings, are cases from various
Courts of Appeals and said in fact only one case cited that is not from an appeals case.
Commissioner Blake said that not a single case goes to an appeals court until after it's
been heard at a lower court and said apparently the appeals process is fine when the
Mayor is looking at cases to cite and said let's keep that in mind, that the democratic
process continues on until the end.
Mayor Partyka recessed the Regular Meeting and opened the Public Hearing.
Ellen Weiss, 1203 Winter Springs Boulevard, mentioned that the person who spoke
during Public Input did not have the three-minute timer running. Mayor Partyka
apologized for the mishap. Ms. Weiss stated that she supports the Mayor and urged the
Commission to drop the appeal.
Commissioner Blake stated that the milage rate that was just passed was a decrease and
said few other Cities or Counties or Special Districts around Central Florida have done
that and said the Commission has the same position as far as Ms. Weiss does in terms of
the budget and spending money and said it's their money as well.
Mayor Partyka closed the Public Hearing and reconvened the Regular Meeting.
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake to adopt Ordinance 705, which is the
final budget for Fiscal Year 98-99 for the City of Winter Springs. Seconded by
Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner McLeod: aye;
Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Blake:
aye; Commissioner Miller: aye. Motion passes.
REGULAR AGENDA
Public Works Department
A. Recommending the City Commission adopt a policy for minimum roadway width
standards for striping bike lanes:
Kip Lockcuff, Public Works/Utility Director, stated that there was a request by the
Commission to look at the possibility of striping bike lanes on roads throughout the City
and said his recommendation for the minimum road standards are for a 24 foot, for two
way traffic, that means 10 foot travel lane with a four foot bike lane. Mr. Lockcuff said
he has identified the streets throughout the City that have the potential to have this done.
Using the regular paint, he believes that about a quarter of these could be done this year
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 20
with eXIstmg funds. Mr. Lockcuff said his recommendation IS that the mInImum
roadway travel width be 10 feet with a four-foot bike lane.
Commissioner Gennell said where the roads are identified it says "portions" of these
roads and asked Mr. Lockcuff to expand on that. Mr. Lockcuff stated that the only
"portion" one is Hayes, the rest are full roads; the portion of Hayes that has a 22 foot
travel lane is from the bridge down to Sailfish, Mr. Lockcuff said it is possible that they
may be able to expand that to 24 when the road is paved, currently the road is 22 feet.
Commissioner Gennell said in regard to Winter Springs Boulevard, that is not considered
a two-lane road because it is divided. Mr. Lockcuff said that is correct. Commissioner
Gennell asked if the requirements are different if it is a divided road. Mr. Lockcuff said
as long as it has a ten foot travel lane it can have the four foot bike lane. Mr. Lockcuff
said that Winter Springs Boulevard has a 15 foot travel lane and a four foot bike lane;
Sheoah Boulevard has a 13 foot travel lane and a six foot path. Commissioner Gennell
asked if there are any roads that could go in excess of four feet. Mr. Lockcuff said other
than Winter Springs Boulevard and Sheoah Boulevard, Vista Willa Has a 30-foot
pavement width and we could go a little wider there; everything else is 24 feet.
Commissioner Gennell asked if Moss Road will be paved in the future. Mr. Lockcuff
said he doesn't recall ifit is in the budget, but it is in the City's long term plans within the
next year if not the current coming fiscal year. Commissioner Gennell asked if there are
plans for Moss and Edgemon, to be widened or just resurface. Mr. Lockcuff said to
resurface, and said North Moss has more plans than just resurfaced, it is currently called
to go to four lane and we will be revisiting that. Commissioner Gennell said that would
be a particularly beneficial route to have the six foot lane because that is part of the where
the linkage is going to be from all those neighborhoods to the trail and said she would
encourage Mr. Lockcuffto look at that in the plans.
Commissioner Blake asked what the difference is between paint and thermoplastic.
Commissioner McLeod said one is two years and the other is seven years.
Commissioner Blake asked if two years is all for the paint or is it just for it to look good.
Mr. Lockcuff said for it to look good. Commissioner Blake asked what the "true
useable" and asked if there is a level of reflectivity that the paint has to maintain over a
period time for safety values. Mr. Lockcuff said he doesn't know that it is measurable
and mentioned that about five years they painted Sheoah and it didn't take long for it not
to look very good and stated that they did thermo recently and said that looks a lot better.
Commissioner Blake said is what Mr. Lockcuff is saying, to do all the roadways that are
listed with thermoplastic would be $34,000. Mr. Lockcuff stated yes.
Commissioner Blake said the only amount that can be "squeezed" out of the budget just
passed is $3,500. Mr. Lockcuff said yes. Commissioner Blake asked if it has to come
out of the Transportation Improvement Fund and said we could it as a general project as
well. Commissioner Gennell said it could actually be done out of recreation.
Commissioner Blake said he would like to see this project get done as soon as possible
and said he thinks it should be done the right way and use thermoplastic. Commissioner
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28. 1998 97-98-44
Page 21
Blake asked the City Manager if this can be discussed after the comes back with number
on the Concession. Manager McLemore said he could but would rather talk to the
Commission about it when the City gets their audit in December. Manager McLemore
said he highly recommends using thermoplastic and said in terms of efficiency it is much
better for the City to use thermoplastic rather than paint which would allow man-hours to
do other things rather than having to repaint the striping.
Commissioner Blake said his position is that this is a very worth while project and is
something the City should be doing and the City should be doing it as soon as possible
and use the thermoplastic.
Commissioner Miller asked if there would be also some kind of symbol on the roadway
which would say what the lane is for, such as a symbol of a bicycle or a person walking,
just spaced enough so people will know what the lane is for.
Mayor Partyka said that Commissioner Blake brings up a good point, and the fact of the
matter is simple that numbers show that it is a better value to go with thermoplastic, plus
the timesavings.
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake to establish a polity of shared bike lanes
in roadways listed in the packet utilizing thermoplastic and the City Manager will
come back to the Commission as soon as possible with a way to get this done.
Seconded by Commissioner Miller. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: aye;
Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Miller: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion passes.
Community Development Department/Land Development Division
B. Request Commission approval for the First Reading of Ordinance No. 706 vacating a
portion of a green belt, drainage and utility easement located to the rear of Lot 35, Bear
Creek Estates (761 Bear Creek Circle). The Second Reading and adoption of Ordinance
No. 706 will be scheduled for a later meeting:
Motion was made by Commissioner Martinez to read Ord. No. 706 by title only on
First Reading. Seconded by Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. Vote:
Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Miller: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye. Motion passes.
Attorney Guthrie read Ord. No. 706 by title only on First Reading.
Commissioner Blake said he is concerned about opening up greenbelt and drainage areas
specifically in this area that goes along Bear Creek and asked if there are any elevations
and if this is breaking into the flood zone at all and is this going to change the floodway
at all.
Mark Jenkins, City Engineer, stated that when this request first came into his office, he
required the residence to submit sealed, topographical data done by a surveyor, of the
area that was requested to be vacated. What the owner had chosen to do was to construct
"
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 22
a tennis court that is a couple feet lower than the yard level. Mr. Jenkins stated that there
would be a slight increase of flood storage, they would not be encroaching into the flood
plain.
Commissioner Blake said with building a structure of that sort, if there were to be
flooding that would crest over the flood of the tennis court, would there be a problem
with undermining the asphalt which would result in large chunks of asphalt somewhere
down stream that gets caught in fallen trees that could cause a flood back-up elsewhere.
Mr. Jenkins said he wouldn't think that would happen.
Commissioner Blake asked if there were trees in that section. Mr. Jenkins said he is not
aware if there are trees but stated that the owner would have to be in agreement with the
City's Arbor Ordinance. Mr. Jenkins stated that he looked at the possibility of a flood
plain encroachment. Discussion.
Commissioner Martinez said this was discussed some time ago and it had to do with a
variance at on that site and now we are dealing with an ordinance. It was determined that
this is not the property that Commissioner Martinez was talking about.
Commissioner Blake said his concern is that these greenbelt easements along the creek
are there for a specific purpose, not just flood way control but for conservation and said
he would like to ask the property owner of the possibility of moving this court so that it
doesn't infringe upon this area, and stated that he would rather not give this up.
Mike Runda, property owner, stated that a tennis court is 120' x 60' (standard size), and
said that is not the actual size of the court, that includes all the sides and back.
Mr. Runda stated that the problem with going further north for this is that there is a 20
foot Homeowners Association restriction or maybe City Ordinance but it states that you
can't build a tennis court within 20 feet of your property and stated that the plans have
the court as far as north as can be done and that results in asking for the variance into the
greenbelt area. Mr. Runda stated that there are no trees on that lot and stated that the
City's Arbor person came out and walked the lot, there will be no trees removed it is just
a grassy area. Discussion on this item.
Manager McLemore stated that he has a problem with these kind of things, had we not
been able to show some degree of improvement with water storage, I would have
recommended not doing it, and stated that he still doesn't feel that good about it but from
a factual point of view it does represent a small increase in stormwater storage capacity.
Manager McLemore said as a rule he doesn't like to see the City vacating easements and
said it is done a lot and said each one has to be treated differently and stated this one does
look like it has a small amount of benefit to the City and to the general public.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 23
Commissioner Miller said the line on the map that shows the edge of the water, asked if
that is the level of the creek normally. Mr. Jenkins stated that is the water level on that
date.
Manager McLemore said looking at an alternative, we would give him the right of entry
to our easement and if a public purpose demands, public safety at some point in time in
the future, then he would have to remove it. Manager McLemore said that is another
alternative to consider.
Commissioner Gennell asked Mr. Jenkins by putting a tennis court in, how would that
affect the percolation in that area. Mr. Jenkins said it probably wouldn't have much of an
effect on it at all. Commissioner Gennell asked Mr. Runda asked how big was the lot.
Mr. Runda said about an acre. Commissioner Gennell asked if she could assume that the
neighbor's lots are about an acre also. Mr. Runda said he thinks they range in size from a
half to an acre and a half in Bear Creek Estates. Commissioner Gennell asked if it was
lot 36 that Mr. Runda says there is a 20- foot setback from. Mr. Runda said he thinks the
rule is 20 feet from any side yard and said he thinks it is 36 feet on both sides.
Commissioner Gennell asked how close was the house on lot 36 to the property line. Mr.
Runda said that property has a pool that goes back to within 20 feet of the Northern Way
line and the pool is about 20-25 feet (edge of the screened area) and said the house
probably sits another 10-15 feet inside that so the pool juts out to close of the variance for
that pool.
Commissioner Gennell asked what would be the difference between having Mr. Runda
apply for a variance in the 20 foot setback to allow him to move that tennis court closer to
his property, assuming that his neighbor didn't have any objection. Manager McLemore
said that is it, if the neighbor doesn't have an objection. Discussion.
Manager McLemore said setbacks are very important to a community in terms of it's
overall quality; a 20 foot encroachment into a setback is substantial and said the question
is from a public policy point of view, how is the public better benefited here by giving
this to the owner. Commissioner Gennell said how is the public at large, better benefited
by not encroaching on the green area. Manager McLemore said it appears in this case
that they are in fact benefited, to a small degree from an engineering perspective and
stated that is the dilemma that we have struggling with in this matter.
Mr. Runda said he had to get permission from the Homeowners Association in Bear
Creek before we came to the City and said they were adamant about the 20-foot side yard
setback. Discussion.
Commissioner Martinez said he heard the applicant state that he would have to dig down
two feet and wanted to know if the drop in the level of the ground two feet, would cause
the run of water in that area and effect anyone in the vicinity. Mr. Jenkins said there
shouldn't be a negative impact to his neighbors. Commissioner Martinez asked if it
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28. 1998 97-98-44
Page 24
would affect the storm drainage system. Mr. Jenkins said he doesn't see a negative
effect.
Commissioner Blake said according to the survey Mr. Runda's home is already
encroaching on the setback. Commissioner Blake asked if there was a wall, fence or
hedge between Mr. Runda's property and lot 36. Mr. Runda said part of the agreement
with the Homeowners was an arbor plan; that talks about 10 or 12 trees going in, a
mature hedge row going in and said he is putting trees into that area to help shield the
court.
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake to forward Ordinance No. 706 onto
Second Reading. Seconded by Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. Commissioner
Gennell asked how many cubic yards of fill does this amount to that will be removed
from the area. Mr. Runda said he doesn't know the number. Mr. Jenkins said
about 27 cubic feet/yards. Commissioner Gennell asked what will be done with the
fill that is removed. Mr. Runda said the contractor is taking all the grass and fill
and removing it and said he doesn't know where it is taken. Commissioner Gennell
said you are not going to displace it on the lot. Mr. Runda said no. Commissioner
Blake asked the Attorney if there was any way a stipulation can be put in, should
the Ordinance be approved, that requires the land owner - just some level of
protection to make sure that we don't have a contractor that is dumping 14,000
cubic feet of dirt onto the conservation easement in a way that it might affect the
floodway. Attorney Guthrie said there could be a side agreement to that effect, as
part of the permitting process. Commissioner Blake said he wants to make sure
that it doesn't "conveniently" end up (not off site) but on site in an area that does
great harm and detriment to the rest of the floodway, just to be certain that we
don't end up with a large problem. Attorney Guthrie said the City could ask for an
affidavit for whoever excavated the site as to the disposition of the dirt. Attorney
Guthrie said the City has time to that as part of the Second Reading. Manager
McLemore said the simplest way to handle this is to have the gentleman or the
contractor put up a cash bond that "hurts"; then the City inspects the work, and if
the dirt is not taken properly, you take his cash, and stated that is done all the time.
Commissioner Blake said his question is there something that should be done in this
motion that is currently on the floor to assure that that is completed when it comes
through for the permitting process. Manager McLemore said he recommends a
cash bond that would be equal to or a small portion greater than what it would cost
to go in and fix it if he were to do it. Commissioner Blake asked if that information
would be available for the Commission at the next meeting. Manger McLemore
stated yes. Commissioner Gennell said a few years ago the City went through this
and said there wasn't anything found in the City Code that prohibited, we had
people come in here who moved fill around on their lot and caused flooding in the
next lot, and said when looking through the City Code, there is nothing and said she
strongly supports that the Commission looks at that because we've had some serious
impact to some homeowners because of that. V ote: Commissioner Miller: nay;
Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Gennell:
aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye. Motion passes.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 25
Mayor Partyka stated that this will be on the Commission Agenda for October 12, 1998,
for Second Reading.
Mayor Partyka called a recess at 9:30 p.m. Mayor Partyka reconvened the meeting at
9:40 p.m.
City Manager
C. City Manager requesting the acceptance of public facilities for Stone Gable to be
taken from the table and accepted:
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake to remove this item from the table.
Seconded by Commissioner McLeod. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Miller: aye;
Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: nay; Commissioner Gennell:
aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion passes.
Manager McLemore gave an overview. Manager McLemore stated that as he
understands it that from the last meeting there were two issues, one being the issue of
street lighting and the other was a concern over a flood plain related issue. Manager
McLemore said with regard to the streetlights he is recommending that if the
Commission approves this tonight that it is approved with a contingency that the
developer has to work that out with the City in such a way that the City is not placed in a
position that the City is a collection agency, assuming the Commission agrees to extend
the same streetlight policy that we do to the Tuscawilla District (or proposed district)
based on the City's prior policy that was adopted. Manager McLemore said the first
issue is does the Commission extend that policy and the second is this will either have to
be done by setting up a special assessment district or have an agreement where the
homeowner association pays their portion of the light bill and the City pays their portion
of the light bill. Manager McLemore said he doesn't want to have to go and collect from
the Homeowner Association to reimburse ourselves.
Manager McLemore said the other issue is the flood plain issue, and said he understands
that this issue is a matter of real concern to some of the Commission. Manager
McLemore said there really is no basis relative to this particular development to hold it
up based on a hundred-year flood issue unless there is something we don't know about.
Manager McLemore said there were four questions and said he has sent the Commission
copies of what was sent to FEMA and said he also gave the Commission a copy of what
was returned from FEMA on Friday (put in the Commission's mail box today). Manager
McLemore said he and the City Engineer Mark Jenkins had a discussion with FEMA
representatives from Atlanta and said they basically relative to the issue of is this
particular development in the 100 year flood plain; they have basically said that they will
not make those calls on a local basis, on a project by project basis, that that is up on the
local entity to decide based on engineering data that is submitted where there are changes
that need to be made based on local data on local requests for reviews of the flood plain,
then those go to FEMA by two routes. One is through a letter of request for revision,
which has to go through their process and secondly where you make a request to review
large sections of the flood maps and then you get into (basically) a long list of other
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 26
people that have requested the same thing from FEMA and you just have to wait for that
to happen. Manager McLemore said the question is, is there any real reason to hold up
Stone Gable and said he thinks there is no data to suggest that this project is within the
100-year flood plain.
Manager McLemore said the Commission does have other issues relative to the flood
plain and said they agree there are some problems with the original FEMA map for this
area, and that there needs to be some amendments to the flood maps and said it doesn't
really affect this property and said to be frank, the Commission would put themselves in
peril if they deny this at this point in time.
Commissioner Martinez stated that he brought this up a few weeks ago because the
FEMA maps are incorrect and the flood plain zone is not what it is alleged to be and said
he doesn't like to place people at risk. Commissioner Martinez said being a FEMA
reservist he has seen things that have happened that haven't happened in 50 years and it
could happened just over night and said no one can say that that place is immuned from
flooding or from placing people at risk just because someone here says that it is.
Commissioner Martinez said as far as the questions that were sent to FEMA is the bottom
line is that they asked FEMA if the flood maps that are not correct, is there anything that
would lead them to believe that the Stone Gable subdivision would be within the 100
year flood plain when corrected; and the answer was: "there is no logical answer to this
question based on our existing information". Discussion.
Commissioner McLeod said if he remembers the map correctly, and asked the City
Engineer, didn't the back of this property just barely touch the 500-year flood plain. Mr.
Jenkins said yes that is correct. Commissioner McLeod said with that in mind he doesn't
believe there is a problem with flooding here as has been outlined by the City's Engineer
and outlined by FEMA.
Motion was made by Commissioner McLeod to approve this item with the
acceptance of the public facilities based upon the developer working out payment
arrangements acceptable by the City as outlined by the City Manager, in that the
City would pay their portion of the street lighting in this development. Seconded by
Commissioner Blake. Discussion. Commissioner Miller said question number four
from the questions sent to FEMA reads: "if the flood maps are not correct, is there
anything that would lead you to believe that Stone Gable subdivision would be
within the 100 year flood plain when corrected" and the answer is: "no, the official
FEMA base 100 year flood elevation closest to Stone Gable is elevation 17 feet
(reference to sea level) and goes on to say the lowest lot or roadway elevation in
Stone Gable is elevation 24 feet. Stone Gable is 7 feet higher than the 100 year flood
elevation" Commissioner Miller said all of the data which is gathered in all of these
projects, no only Stone Gable in any part of the City, is all "couched" in the same
terms, everything is based on sea level. Mr. Jenkins requires that. Commissioner
Miller said then we allow people to build, if it is in a flood plain, 18 inches above the
100-year flood, unless it is in the middle of a creek or something like that. Mr.
Jenkins said correct, you can not have a finished floor any lower than that.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28.1998 97-98-44
Page 27
Commissioner Miller said based on this answer, it says the lowest lot or roadway in
Stone Gable is 24 feet and that is when this project is completed, correct. Mr.
Jenkins said that is what is on the approved plans and stated that is the lowest
corner of the lot and you can consider the building pads will be more than 7 feet and
stated that he chose the lowest portion of any lot and roadway when he came up
with 24, and stated the building pads and finished floor will all be higher than 24.
Commissioner Miller said he has asked the City to provide data on the lot levels in
Winding Hollow and lot levels in North Orlando Ranches subdivision (on the other
side of No Name Creek. There was discussion regarding flooding in Winding
Hollow and North Orlando Ranches. Commissioner Blake said point of order, the
questions that Commissioner Miller is asking are not relative to the motion on the
floor. Commissioner Miller explained his concern with flooding in that area.
Attorney Guthrie said the Commission has two obligations here, and said they are
fairly absolution in terms that they apply, the State qualified for Federal Flood
Insurance and we have to enforce the FEMA regulations and said that is clear and
that is a something we must do and said those are established and said there is a
procedure to change them but until they are changed if somebody qualifies for the
current set of regulations, and other wise qualifies for the nature of the approval
that we have here, we don't have a lot of discretion here and said given the nature of
the obligation we have and the discretion we have for this type of approval, it was
proper to table this at one time to get these questions resolved but there has been no
scientific data that suggests that the problem that is perceived is currently verifiable
and said he think the City has much discretion to turn this down. It was determined
that Mr. Jenkins will meet with Commissioner Miller to answer his questions.
Commissioner Gennell asked if it is not possible for Florida Power to break out the
bills for the street lighting, then will it revert to concrete poles. Manager McLemore
said there would be two options, one we create an assessment district around them
and then the City is not put in the position of being a collection agency, the other is
that the homeowner association would have to pay the full bill. Vote on the motion:
Commissioner Miller: nay; Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez:
nay; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion passes.
REPORTS
A. City Attorney - Frank Kruppenbacher
Attorney Guthrie said the issue was brought up regarding a complaint that was suppose to
have been filed with the Attorney General by a citizen. Attorney Guthrie said he was in
contact with the Attorney General and was sent a copy of the materials and stated that
after quickly reviewing the material, they seem to be the type of allegations that the City
hears from this individual and said there doesn't seem to be anything of substance.
Attorney Guthrie said that the Attorney General stated that the file was reviewed by the
Assistant Attorney General determined that no response was necessary.
B. City Manager - Ronald W. McLemore
Manager McLemore stated that the City was successful in being funded for the Grant for
our 434 redevelopment area and said he thinks the City would be remiss if we did not
send to the County and the Chairman a letter of appreciation or Resolution of
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28. 1998 97-98-44
Page 28
appreciation for the role they played in that which was substantial and suggested that the
Commission authorize the City Manager to structure that tomorrow and forward it.
Motion was made by Commissioner Blake to authorize the City Manager to forward
the appreciation to the County and the County Chairman. Seconded by
Commissioner Miller. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner
McLeod: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Miller: aye;
Commissioner Gennell: aye. Motion passes.
Manager McLemore also stated that he would like to acknowledge that Commissioner
Gennell was also very much involved with working that through.
C. Commission Seat IV - Cindy Gennell
No Report.
D. Commission Seat V - David McLeod
Commissioner McLeod said in the draft that the Commission approved last week
regarding the questions and answers on the Tuscawilla Beautification District asked if
that has been finalized with an index page and is it available to the general public.
Manager McLemore stated that he has not finalized it as yet. Commissioner McLeod
asked went will that be done. Manager McLemore said it will be doable in the next
couple of days.
E. Commission Seat I - Robert S. Miller
Commissioner Miller asked the City Manager to give the City a run-down regarding the
vehicle that was parked at the end of S.R. 419 in the field, on the other side of S.R. 434
and asked why did it take so long to have the vehicle removed. Manager McLemore
stated that he cannot say what the problem was and said we did get back with the County
and complained about the vehicle being there and it finally did get removed and said he
doesn't know what the details were. Commissioner Miller asked if this situation happens
again, couldn't the City just notify the County and remove the vehicle and bill the owner.
Attorney Guthrie stated that it being in the County the City probably has little or no
authority to remove the vehicle.
Commissioner Miller said with regards to the 434 corridor starting to get built, he said he
thinks it time for the City to consider a name for the section of roadway between 17/92
and the Greenway. Discussion. Commissioner Miller said that there maybe could be
some kind of program and take suggestions and have an evaluation team to look over the
suggestions and then have some sort of formal occasion for the new name. Mayor
Partyka suggested that this be an agenda item for the next Commission meeting so that
the Commission can discuss this and have time to think about it.
Commissioner Miller said he would like to nominate James Harbin, 1010 Weatherwood
Circle to the B.O.W.S. Board.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28. 1998 97-98-44
Page 29
Motion was made by Commissioner Martinez to appoint James Harbin to the
B.O.W.S. Board. Seconded by Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. Vote:
Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Miller: aye; Commissioner Blake: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye. Motion passes.
F. Commission Seat II - Michael S. Blake
Commissioner Blake asked abut the elevation of the Hess Station that is under
construction at Vista Willa and asked if the elevation will be as it appears and said there
has been a lot of fill brought in. Manager McLemore said he can tell the Commission
what the elevation that they are allowed to build, and said whether that is what is seen at
this time he is not sure. Commissioner Blake asked the City Manager to check on that
because the base elevation is a little higher than what he anticipated.
G. Commission Seat III - Ed Martinez, Jr.
No Report.
H. Mayor's Office - Paul P. Partyka
Mayor Partyka said for clarification he received a Fax from Mayor Brough about the Tri-
County Nominating Committee and said he assumed that this was given to everybody
and Mayor Partyka read the Memo, which was regarding the City's nomination to that
Board. Mayor Partyka stated that if any Commissioner would like to volunteer to the Tri-
County Board and in addition to that may want to be considered for the position of
Second Vice-President, he will submit the name, based on what the Commission wants.
Commissioner Martinez said since he will not be serving on the E.C.F.R.P.C. after next
month, he would accept the position of a Board Member, not Second Vice-President.
Motion was made by Commissioner Miller to nominate Commissioner Martinez to
be a nominated to the Tri-County League of Cities Board of Directors. Seconded by
Commissioner McLeod. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: aye;
Commissioner Blake: aye; Commissioner Martinez: aye; Commissioner Miller: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion passes.
Mayor Partyka asked Commissioner to give a biography within the next day or so to send
in. Commissioner Martinez asked for the address. Mayor Partyka said he will supply that
to Commissioner Martinez and said he will submit to Mayor Brough Commissioner
Martinez's name.
Mayor Partyka asked the City Manager ifhe had any update on the P.R. piece.
Mayor Partyka reminded the Commission that when it comes to Consensus Items or
Informational Items, to try to get as many questions answered before the meeting and
said if the Commission recalls, the Commission agreed on the Consensus to keep it
minimal and that most of the questions would be answered before the meeting and said it
should be a fairly straight forward issue.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 28. 1998 97-98-44
Page 30
The meeting adjourned at 10:26 p.m.
Respectfully Submi~
~~I~~-;t.~
rvk.~opkins-Pierce, CMC
City Clerk