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HomeMy WebLinkAbout_1997 12 03 City Commission Special Minutes MINUTES DECEMBER 3, 1997 - MEETING 1. Call to Order The meeting was called to order at 3:16 p.m. on Wednesday, December 3, 1997, by City Manager Ronald W. McLemore in the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida). 2. Roll Call Deputy Mayor/Commissioner David McLeod Commissioner Cindy Gennell Commissioner Michael S. Blake Commissioner- Elect Edward Martinez, Jr. Commissioner-Elect Robert S. Miller Also Present Ronald W. McLemore, City Manager Robert Guthrie, City Attorney Charles C. Carrington, Community Development Director Mark Jenkins, City Engineer Chris Murphy, Stormwater Utility Manager 3. Discussion Re2ardin2 Five (5) Floodwav Lots Located on the West Side of Howell Creek. Proiect Known As. The Reserve at Tuscawilla. Phase I-A. The meeting started with Manager McLemore announcing that this briefing had been properly advertised for legal purposes. Charles Carrington was introduced and explained that this meeting was to offer information to the City Commission regarding five (5) floodway lots on the west side of Howell Creek. "The actual question before the City Commission is whether to allow a change in the Howell Creek flood way boundary to permit the subdivision and construction of the five homes in the Reserve at Tuscawilla". Mr. Carrington then introduced those in attendance. Curt Wilkinson, representing the developer, Richland Properties, and the attorney of record for Richland Properties - Dwight D. Saathoff. From P.E.C. - Professional Engineers Consultants, David Hamstra and Mike Galura; and Charles Madden of Madden Engineering, the engineer of record for Richland Properties. Manager McLemore began the discussion by explaining what he felt were the pertinent issues involved with this agenda item. Manager McLemore stated that "this is a subject that is very important to me and because of that, we have gone through extra steps and MINUTES DECEMBER 3, 1997 - MEETING PAGE20F5 very rigorous steps to make sure for your staff and for me, that before we make a recommendation to you, we felt like we really had gotten from the process of discovery and from the process of science, everything we could get, relative to this issue". He then introduced Jim Hunt with Dyer, Riddle, Mills & Precourt (D.R.M.P.) as the "third-party reviewer" . Commissioner Gennell next explained to those in attendance that she unfortunately would have to be leaving shortly, and that she had asked the developer to leave the site plan boards, so that she could review them at another time. Mr. Hunt introduced himself as the manager of the Water Resources Department of Dyer, Riddle, Mills & Precourt and that his company had been asked by the City of Winter Springs to evaluate P.E.Co's proposal for the development of the five (5) floodway lots in the Reserve at Tuscawilla. He stated that their findings were "that there would be a slight reduction in flood elevations along this area of Howell Creek". Manager McLemore asked Mr. Hunt about the methodology and tools they used to arrive at their conclusion. Mr. Hunt answered by saying that they "utilized the Flood Insurance Study that was prepared, the F.E.M.A. accepted study". He further elaborated that what "P.E.C. had done as part of their work was to develop additional cross-sections in order to establish a more accurate model. As part of that, what they had to do was develop what is termed a Duplicate-Effective Model, and then a Corrected-Effective Model. The Corrected- Effective Model has the additional survey data that they needed to get in order to properly evaluate the system that they were proposing; and when you compare that to what they were proposing through construction, there was a slight decrease in flood elevation, therefore the flood elevations varied anywhere from probably from 7/1 OO's of a foot up to, I think .25 feet in reduction". Manager McLemore then asked Mr. Hunt to elaborate about his company's experience, of which he complied. Manager McLemore then explained that he wanted to cover several issues. "Is there an effective rise in the floodway, as a result of this encroachment into the floodway". Mr. Hunt commented that there was "No rise". Manager McLemore then asked about, "The actual velocity by which the volume of water goes through that floodway". Mr. Hunt stated that the velocity "increased slightly". Manager McLemore then discussed the emotional issues of homeowners potentially being flooded out of their homes and asked Mr. Hunt to show on the colorized site plan boards, where the 25-year floodplain, the 100-year floodplain, and the 500-year floodplain were located. There was discussion about why there was a slight difference between the 100-year floodplain, and the 500-year floodplain. Manager McLemore stated the question as "Why is there not a change in the basic floodplain or floodway from the 100-year flood to the 500-year flood, and I think that this is the key question in this whole debate". Mr. Hunt answered that "the 500-year floodplain would not be appreciably different from the 100-year floodplain because of 434". There was further discussion about the physics of this issue and how this was a "unique situation". Commissioner Gennellleft at 3:31 p.m. MINUTES DECEMBER 3, 1997 - MEETING PAGE30F5 There was discussion about ensuring the verifications of these cross-section profiles at 5- year intervals for the continued reassurance of the community and City officials. Manager McLemore then opened the floor for discussion of these issues. City Attorney Robert Guthrie commented on this as a regulatory issue, and he said that the Commission will be required to "look at the criteria in our ordinances, and if those are met from a science and a physical background". Manager McLemore then brought up the issue of "fairness" as it pertains to costs and benefits to the homeowners/residents of this subdivision and the general public. Deputy Mayor/Commissioner David McLeod then asked who was paying for the flood studies that were being performed, and if there was previous test information available from the past twenty years. David Hamstra ofP.B.C. replied there have been limited changes over the years and that "we do not anticipate that there's going to be changes of the magnitude that would require monitoring more than on a five year basis". There was further discussion regarding the channel and velocity in terms of the lots in question. Commissioner-Elect Robert S. Miller asked about the impact of flooding and the density of trees obstructing the flow in waterways as it applies to the area in question. Mr. Hamstra explained that fallen trees were accounted for in the models, but because State Road 434 would provide relief, it was determined that fallen trees would not cause significant increases in flood elevation. There was further discussion, including the impacts ofthe Florida Department of Transportation designed changes to State Road 434. Commissioner-Elect Edward Martinez, Jr. inquired about everyone's personal knowledge and experience involving a Federal Emergency flood. He spoke of a personal experience and asked "What is to prevent this creek from doing the same thing two years from now...five years from now..,ten years from now"? Mr. Hamstra responded by explaining how the elevation of these lots were going to be raised above the 100-year elevation level. He further stated that by using the F.E.M.A. Flood Insurance Study and the National Flood Insurance Program it would "prevent new developments from making the same mistakes older developments did in building in low-lying areas. And that's the whole reason we've been in this process for the last four years...is to prove to F.E.M.A., the City of Winter Springs, the St. Johns River Water Management District - that we will not build in a floodplain that will cause property damage to our proposed development, nor anybody upstream or downstream in this proposed development". There was continued discussion. Tom O'Connell, (1718 Seneca Boulevard), Vice-President of the Tuscawilla Homeowner's Association spoke on actual flooding in this area in 1994. He specifically mentioned how water came within eight feet of the rear of some homes in the Chelsea Woods subdivision, however, it was determined that there was no actual water in any of those homes. There was continued discussion on the density and impact of vegetation (trees), legal criteria, and the cross-section data. MINUTES DECEMBER 3, 1997 - MEETING PAGE40F5 Commissioner Michael S. Blake asked about the annual Homeowners Association dues. Curt Wilkinson of Richland Properties replied that they were currently about $700.00 to $800.00 per year. Dwight D. Saathoff, Attorney for the developer explained what the responsibilities of the City were per F.E.M.A.'s regulations. He continued by saying that "your responsibility as a participating community is simply to assure that flood carrying capacity of this water channel. It's not to maintain encroachments within the floodway". Commissioner-Elect Martinez next read part of a letter from F.E.M.A. which was sent to Mike Galura of P.E.C. documenting the City's maintenance responsibility. Mr. Saathoff responded by saying, "What you're referring to there, is a maintenance that is...when they refer to the fact that the City is ultimately responsible for maintenance; it's not of the maintenance of the encroachment within the floodway, it's maintenance of the flood carrying capacity of that water course. It's not clear from that letter, but the F.E.M.A. regs are very clear". There was further discussion. Discussion then continued on the issues of erosion, sediment, and related technical information. Manager McLemore asked Mr. Hunt and Mark Jenkins, City Engineer for the City of Winter Springs, "Does the normal or...erosion that would occur on those embankments be significant enough to really have an impact on the flow of the water course?" Both said there would be no impact. Commissioner Blake asked about the burden being placed on the homeowners, and the related costs and benefits. Manager McLemore commented again on the "fairness" issue. Attorney Guthrie then spoke on the subject of an imposed type of assessment, such as a possible compromise that suggests that the "original 84 lots...their assessment would be capped, at a leveL.two dollars a month, I believe was the number last thrown out, and then any additional costs would be imposed upon the more directly benefited lots, the five...under the...Homeowners documents, and those documents couldn't be changed without the permission of the City as part of this approval process". Commissioner Blake voiced his concern "that it appears all the benefits of this...this Section I-A goes to an entity that's not going to be here five years from now, and all the costs goes on to our homeowners and taxpayers". Mr. Saathoff explained that this is private property and as it was legally purchased, the developer "has the right to develop that property in accordance with all the applicable reg's. We have met all the applicable reg's". Discussion continued. Mr. O'Connell brought up the issue of monitoring and correctly collecting the required data. There was also discussion as to who will most likely have to accept the burden, and the "fairness" issue. Mr. Wilkinson spoke on how he was "almost baffled" at the opposition to this issue - and how concerned his company had been in actually trying to improve this area. He further MINUTES DECEMBER 3, 1997 - MEETING PAGE 5 OF 5 explained some of the efforts that his company has gone through to ensure that there are no problems with the engineering in this subdivision. There was further discussion on the possibility of re-shaping the lots as an alternative. Mr. Wilkinson was also asked why his company did not provide a bond. He answered that "it costs money to get a bond. I would have to spend that money...and we have spent a lot of money...! think that the assurance where we've really spent the money, and spent it well, is through the engineering". He further stated that "a long term bond would cost me a lot of money...cost my company a lot of money, and I don't think the City would really gain anything by it. You know, again, I think just the sound engineering...we paid for the consultant...the City's consultant, we paid that...so, we've tried to protect the City, and not cost them any in this process". Manager McLemore brought up how he thought that from a scientific and engineering point of view, that all ofthe pertinent issues had been more than covered. 4. Adjournment This meeting adjourned at 4:58 p.m. Minutes respectfully submitted by: Andrea Lorenzo-Luaces, Deputy City Clerk City Of Winter Springs, Florida COMM1SSllfy9798/minutes/120397.doc