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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995 02 27 City Commission Special Minutes SPECIAL MEETING CITY COMMISSION CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS FEBRUARY 27,1995 The Special Meeting of the City of Winter Springs City Commission was called to order by Mayor John F. Bush at 4:05 p.m. ROLL CALL: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor John Langellotti, present City Manager John Govoruhk, present City Attorney Frank Kruppenbacher, present COMMISSION: Larry Conniff, present John Ferring, present Cindy Gennell, present David McLeod, present Wayne Holmes, Brevard County State Attorney's Office. Discussion of Sunshine Laws. City Charter. new State Laws. etc.: Attorney Kruppenbacher stated that Mr. Wayne Holmes, Chief of Operations for Brevard County State Attorney's Office, is going to review with you the law as it relates to you as Commissioners and you can then pose any questions to him you may have. Mr. Holmes stated that the: Government in the Sunshine Manual that has been given to the Commission, is the best source for information about the Sunshine Law. An advantage that you as a Commission has is that you can ask the Attorney General's office, through your City Attorney, for an opinion in an area that may concern you. Mr. Holmes stated that the Sunshine Law extends to the discussions and deliberations as well as the formal action taken by a public Board or Commission. There is no requirement that a quorum be present for a meeting of members of the public Board or Commission to be subject to that particular legislation; any gathering whether formal or casual of two or more members of the same Board or Commission to discuss some matter which foreseeable action will be taken by the public Board of Commission. The whole idea is that everything that you do on behalf of the City comes within the Sunshine Law, if there is any type of meeting between one or more of the Board members, and the courts have interpreted it to include telephone calls, using a conduit to go between members of a Board, computers and any type of communication about a pending matter or a matter that is in the foreseeable future before the Board in some sort of discussion between those members. In terms of the meeting itself, the same intent to keep it open is also reflected in what it requires that you do, for example: minutes being taken, notice being given to the meeting so that the public is aware that the meeting is going to take place and an agenda is put out in advance. Mr. Holmes also stated that in terms of the way the legislature intends it even though they don't put in in this particular language, they have almost placed the burden on you. You need to even avoid Special Meeting City Commission February 27, 1995 94-95-12 Page 2 an appearance that the Sunshine Law is in any way being violated. The appearance many times is just as important to the public, the appearance at all times that you are complying with the Sunshine Law. Even when the meeting is being conducted in the Sunshine, if members of the public see notes being passed back and forth, or members of the Board leaning back and forth to each other, talking that is not being stated out in the open of the meeting; that also can clearly show that there is an appearance that something is amiss, or that something is not right, that could also constitute a violation of the Sunshine Law both from a civil standard and potentially from a criminal standard, if it is a knowing violation of the Sunshine Law. Mr. Holmes said in terms of penalties, if somebody brings a civil suit alleging that a Sunshine Law had been violated on a vote that was taken, through the Courts not only could they get Attorney's fees and costs, they can also set aside the action that had been taken so you would have to go back and start all over again. In the case of criminal sanctions, it is a misdemeanor of the second degree, is punishable by up to 60 days in the County jail, but in addition to that, upon being charged the Governor may remove the public official from office, in the terms of suspension, and if they are convicted, whether there is a withholding of judiciate or a finding of judiciate by the County, the Governor can remove the individual from office. Attorney Kruppenbacher asked Mr. Holmes ifhe could discuss with the Commission the concept of conduits. Mr. Holmes said a conduit is basically using some other mechanism to accomplish what basically the Sunshine Law prohibits. Discussion. The burden is on you as the public official to do everything within your power to keep from getting into a situation. You may have to do it by starting a meeting by saying I'd be glad to meet with you about your particular concerns, your particular interests, I need input from you just as I need input from anyone but I cannot in any way shape or form receive any communication from fellow council members, how they feel, whatever; you may have to do it by letter and if it's even a great concern you may even say that the letter has to come through the City Manager. You can use your City Manger to help insulate you from different forces in the community that may be trying to misuse the Sunshine or get you in a situation where the Sunshine Law is misused. Attorney Kruppenbacher said with the exception if you receive a document that is not a public record it will have marked on top either Attorney Client, pending litigation or from the manager so you will know it and it will site the exemption that we are under so you are safe. Mr. Holmes said almost everything is public record but there are exceptions to that and that is why you have a City Attorney to advise you in those particular ways. Attorney Kruppenbacher asked Mr. Holmes to speak to the issue of a knowing violation. Mr. Holmes said knowing is as simple as knowing, by picking up a phone and calling another Commission and talking about an item that is coming up at the next meeting, that is knowing. There was question about a Commissioner attending another appointed Board's meeting, is the Commissioner able to express an opinion if asked by the Board. Mr. Holmes said if asked, because Special Meeting City Commission February 27, 1995 94-95-12 Page 3 that Board is operating under the Sunshine, there should not be a problem if you are there and a question is asked of you; but what you want to avoid is that meeting becoming a Commission meeting. Where you could run into problems is if other Commissioners show up and they want to talk about a particular item that is coming up; the appropriate place for that is in a workshop type of setting where all Commissioners are present and are dealing specifically with that issue. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he does not recommend that members of this Commission attend lower body meetings and voice their opinions even if you want to tell me that you area voicing it as an individual because you cannot; to the public hearing those comments don't accept that and you are better off if you just go watching. Another reason is you are better off if you go and just watch is ifmore than one of you happen to show up you can inadvertently back into this issue as you start to talk. When two or more of you are in a room you really have to watch your conduct because people quite candidly are watching your conduct. Discussion. Attorney Kruppenbacher said if you adopt a policy that says communication to a lower board would be through a written request through the City Manager, that the City Manager would tend to the Chairman and put in everybody's boxes and make available to the public; you can't have a Sunshine violation at that point because you are making it public and he is simply passing it on to the Chairman. There was discussion on ex-parte discussions. There was also discussion on social events. Commissioner Gennell asked if one or more Commissioners or elected officials or Board members feel the need to discuss something and they don't mind doing it publicly, but just want to sit down together and hash out some things, is there any preclusion to putting up a notice in the normal fashion and if the full Board doesn't feel the need, but a couple of Commissioners want to look into it, is there a preclusion to doing that. Mr. Holmes said the requirements are whoever is meeting fall under Sunshine and of course if two or more of you meet it has to fall by the rules of Sunshine. If you meet as long as there is proper notice and there is minutes of the meeting and there is some opportunity of public input, then technically you have complied with the requirements of the Sunshine Law. Mayor Bush and the Commission thanked Mr. Holmes for attending the meeting. There was discussion on a time limit for pubic speaking at the meetings. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he recommends the Commission has a rule that states the public can speak if they sign up to talk before the meeting starts with the Clerk. There was also discussion of having an electronic timer. Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to have public speaking limited to five (5) minutes and to purchase an electronic timer that displays the time to the speaker and to have the public sign up to speak prior to the meeting being called to order. Seconded by Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner , . Special Meeting City Commission February 27, 1995 94-95-12 Page 4 Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: nay. Motion passes. Motion was made by Commissioner Gennell to provide for people who were unable to sign up at the beginning of the meeting to have the ability to sign up for three minutes a the end of the meeting. Seconded by Commissioner McLeod. Discussion. Commissioner McLeod withdrew his second. Motion dies for lack of a second. Attorney Kruppenbacher asked if the Commission wanted to entertain the concept of modifying the agenda to have a consent agenda portion. This would be where any Commissioner can pull from the consent agenda for discussion an item, or you can vote at once, for example you will have times where you have 5 or 6 first readings, if you had a question then you could dialog regarding that question then you take one vote and approve everything on the agenda as opposed to having the Clerk call every time you have a vote. Discussion. It was the consensus of the Commission to have a consent agenda. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he will write all this in rules and bring it back to the Commission. Discussion. There was discussion to have the public input at the end of the agenda. Mayor Bush mentioned having the City Manager and Commission and Mayor's seats come at the beginning of the meeting. Discussion. Attorney Kruppenbacher ask if the Commission wanted to provide a time frame under their seat or leave it the way it is. Discussion. Attorney Kruppenbacher said his recommendation for the new rules to go into effect at the first meeting in April. He will bring back these rules in writing for the Commission to review and finalize them at that meeting and wait a month so that at the next two meetings you are giving out word to the public the new rules. Discussion. There was discussion on moving the Commission reports to the front of the agenda and the public input at the end of the meeting. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he will pole other Cities and will report back at the next meeting what they do regarding Commission reports and the length of time given to the Commissioners to speak under their seats. Motion was made by Commissioner Langellotti to adjourn the meeting. Motion died for lack for a second. Mayor Bush asked when the last time the city had a Charter Review Committee and asked the Commission if a Charter Review Committee is something they would want to appoint for some recommendations for changes in the Charter. Discussion. It was determined to wait until some of the other business is finished before starting that. 'f. . .. Special Meeting City Commission The meeting adjourned at 6:25 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, ~A~ Margo M. Hopkins, City Clerk APPROVED: February 27, 1995 94-95-12 Page 5