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HomeMy WebLinkAbout_1996 08 05 City Commission Workshop Minutes WORKSHOP CITY COMMISSION AUGUST 5, 1996 The Workshop of the City Commission was called to order by Mayor John F. Bush at 7:00 p.m. ROLLCALL: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor John Ferring, present City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present COMMISSIONERS: Larry Conniff, absent John Langellotti, present Cindy Gennell, present David McLeod, present Review of Proposed Improvements to Hayes Rod. Moss Road and Panama Road in the RancWands: Kip Lockcuff, Public WorkslUtility Director, gave his presentation. Mr. Lockcuff stated that Mr. Bill Holmes and Mr. Bill Tennell, of Conklin, Porter and Holmes Engineers, are present to give an overview of what the typical sections of each road will look like. Mr. Holmes stated that the typical road section that they like to use in situation like this, particularly when paving dirt streets on existing right-of-ways and still contain the drainage within the roads is to use swale sections where ever you can. Mr. Holmes said this has one advantage of being able to handle the stormwater without causing the necessity of putting in closed drainage and buying land for retention. Mr. Holmes said it is much more permittable and an environmental friendly way to do it. The problems in some of the roads are that these streets have been in existence for a long time, as far as the right-of-way widths go and currently they do not, in some cases, meet the standard right- of-way widths that you have with collector roadways under the City's current ordinance or standard practice. Mr. Holmes said they will attempt to (in all cases) keep the driving lanes the same as the City has in the standard roadway section, but they will decrease some of the amenities such as sidewalks (in some cases) and also the shoulder widths and in some cases they will have to go with curb and gutter if it becomes to constraint. Mr. Holmes reviewed a drawing showing Moss Road with sidewalks. Mr. Holmes stated that that section has an 80' right-of-way, so there is no problems on the right-of-way width in that case and can go with a sidewalk on each side, twelve foot driving lanes, four foot shoulders and have a good amount of cross slope area for the swales. Mr. Holmes reviewed the cross section on Panama Road. Mr. Holmes stated that there is a 50' right-of-way, which would typically be used in a subdivision currently with curb and gutter streets. When you try to put a swale section in that area, you will have to restrict the sidewalk area, probably a sidewalk only on one side, keep the shoulder at minimal and keep the swales at minimal and still match natural ground when you come back out of the swale on either side. There is an option in some cases where if a sidewalk is needed and it would not work well within the right-of-way, possible additional easement area off the right-of-way for additional sidewalk, that would have to be worked out with the landowners to do that. Mr. Holmes reviewed the cross section on Hayes Road. Mr. Holmes stated that there are two different situations shown on the chart; one with a 66' right-of-way, with a swale section (which is their standard design) and only leaves room for a sidewalk on one side, shoulder widths on either side are probably adequate - they are 4' on either side of the pavement. Two twelve foot travel lanes and WORKSHOP CITY COMMISSION AUGUST 5. 1996 PAGE 2 in all the section there will be what is called a ribbon curb next to the right-of-way on the swale section. (One foot wide by 8" deep ribbon curb to contain the edge of the road) Mr. Holmes stated that this is money well spent on a real section to do that, it will prevent maintenance costs in the future from getting high. In one section on Hayes Rd., there is a real steep approach area, in the low area coming in from the north end and due to the steepness of the swales in that area, the water would be running down a swale section too fast and it would erode, therefore, in those areas they will probably have to put in a curb section, or a curb section with a combination of check damns and so forth on the outside but primarily a regular standard curb section in that area. Mr. Tennell stated that some of the design is not consistent with the City's Code as far as right-of- way widths and roadway widths, we are designing these so that the roadway widths (actual travel lanes) will meet the Code. Ifwe use the existing right-of-ways then only Moss Road will meet the requirements for a collector road right-of-way width. Sidewalks are required by the Code on both sides of the road and only Moss Road has a right-of-way that is wide enough to allow sidewalks on both sides. On Panama Road there will only be sidewalk on one side, it is now designed to go on the north side of Panama Road. On Hayes Road, we are also prevented from having the sidewalk on both sides, and our design calls for having the sidewalk on the west side of Hayes Road (at this time). Mr. Tennell stated that the swale is only a foot and a half deep at the most, typically the bottom of the swale will be three feet wide (flat bottom), will have 4 to 1 side slopes. Some of the places will have 3 to 1 slope. Commissioner Ferring asked if the residents on the south side of Panama and the east side of Hayes Road been approached as far as allowing easements to accomplish what we need as far as putting sidewalks on both sides ofthe road. Mr. Tennell stated no, that is an option~ there is a note on one of the cross sections that states in certain locations because of the cross slope, there is not room for swales on both sides that are very deep and there is no room for additional sidewalk unless they go outside the right-of-way. Ifwe are going to have swales on both sides and a sidewalk on one side then to get the second sidewalk we will (in most cases) need some kind of easement from the homeowners. Commissioner Ferrlng also asked if 1 ~ inches of asphalt is adequate. Mr. Tennell stated it was recommended by their soils report as the minimum, that meets all the requirements for a firm road bed that will last. Commissioner McLeod said you are calling for a two foot curb and said that was quite "hefty". Mr. Holmes stated that is a curb and gutter section, the curb is six inches, this is a standard D.O.T. curb. Commissioner Gennell asked what was a desirable shoulder width if land wasn't a problem. Mr. Holmes said he likes to see 6 or 8 feet, and stated that what they have tried to do is go to a 4 to 1 slope next to it and a 4 to 1 is very maintainable. Mr. Holmes stated that an advantage of a ribbon curb is that it will help contain the edge of the road and provides a driving surface in addition to the regular 12' lane. Mr. Tennell stated that there are two types of driveways from the homes connecting to the roadways, WORKSHOP CITY COMMISSION AUGUST 5. 1996 PAGE 3 one are driveways where there is water flowing down the swale, so there will be a culvert underneath the driveway and they are proposing that they would replace any of the driveways that are concrete with concrete and the ones that have asphalt with asphalt and if they are presently dirt, we have agreed that we would either concrete or asphalt those; they would go from the right-of-way to the edge of the pavement. There will be a small gutter, so that any water coming down from the pavement would enter the gutter and go into the swale down stream. The other type: there are several locations along the roadways where the driveways are near the tops of hills so there will be very little water traveling through the swale, in that case we wouldn't have the culvert underneath the driveway and essentially there would be no water crossing over the driveway, (but there is always a potential at some point the swale could fill and tip over the driveway) it would be virtually the same setup as far as the driveway goes, it would come from the existing right-of-way to sidewalk and we would have the concrete or asphalt driveway connecting to the roadway. Ideally we would match the width of the driveway, ifit is a dirt driveway, we would try to have a 16' driveway. Commissioner McLeod asked what is the depth of the deepest swale going into a driveway. Mr. Tennell stated everything was designed to be less than 1 ~. Discussion. Commissioner Gennell said in regard to the intersections where it was stated that it was desirable to acquire extra land; are we providing for that or are we making do with what is there. Mr. Tennell stated that they are making do with what is there. Commissioner Gennell asked what would be the potential problems in not enlarging the intersections. Mr. Tennell said there would be no room for turn lanes or extra wide radiuses; right now there is room for sidewalks and the drainage system connecting the swales and stated that the turning radiuses are designed for large trucks (typical delivery type trucks). Commissioner McLeod asked if a 35' horse trailer could made the turn. Mr. Tennell couldn't answer that question. Commissioner McLeod asked what is the maximum size culvert that will be under the driveways in diameter. Mr. Tennell stated 15" in diameter. Discussion on the culverts. William Fernandez, 250 East Panama Road, asked about the variance process to seek approval of one sidewalk type roads. Mr. Fernandez (speaking as the President of the Ranchlands) stated that on behalf of the Ranchlands Homeowners Assoc., they have signs up at the major entrances of their subdivision and said they pride themselves on country living and a beautiful lifestyle of a country life and said they would appreciate any consideration in those regards to maintain and improve the lifestyle they currently enjoy. Mr. Fernandez spoke now as a personal property owner at 250 East Panama Road, said he wants to be able to use the existing roads for access and egress as he has a large vehicle and horse trailer, he doesn't want to be stopped for any violations when making turns. Mr. Fernandez also said that maybe the road can be without lines. Mr. Fernandez stated he has personally requested to former City Manager Govoruhk that the former Police Chief requesting the City's consideration that horseback riding signs be erected, at least at the major entrances to the subdivision (ifno where else). Mr. Fernandez also mentioned that Florida law prevents a municipality from enacting any law that prevents the riding of horses on public streets and that horses do have the same rights a vehicular traffic and when horses are on the streets they are governed by pedestrians WORKSHOP CITY COMMISSION AUGUST 5. 1996 PAGE 4 rules, so that horseback owners will be riding facing traffic. Mr. Fernandez stated that he prefers horse trails/paths (shale or whatever other as opposed to cement). Mr. Fernandez said he and his wife's preference is not to have sidewalks but to have trails or paths. Duane Roderick, 120 E. Panama, said he had concern regarding the driveways and he would rather see paths instead of sidewalks. Martin Nold, 135 E. Panama, said his property is about 6-8 feet below the road and had concern with having a ditch there. Diane Walker, 330 Hayes Road, asked about the clearing of the properties. Mr. Lockcuffstated that the clearing will be to the edge of the right-of-way and asked ifthere was any way to save some of the large trees. Discussion. The Commission was in agreement to try to save as many trees as possible. Mr. LeBlanc stated that Section 9-2.21(b) of the Code, addressing sidewalks: the Commission can waive that if they determine it to be in the interest and welfare of the environment. Thomas Skelton, 325 Hayes Road, commented about the shoulder width and ditch problem. Harry Mallory, 510 Sunrise Avenue, had concern about the drainage from No Name Creek. Mr. Lockcuff stated that the pipe will be replace under Hayes Road at No Name Creek. Judy Greene, 120 West Panama Road, asked about the width of the roadway and also mentioned water behind her property. Frank Stever, 135 Tradewinds East, spoke about some design difficulty. Trish Dreibert, 500 Hayes Road, spoke regarding the paving project. Dr. Neil Backus, 110 East Panama and Moss Rd. (owns two properties), stated that he is in favor of having a bridallbike path and no sidewalks and also asked about the stormwater. Commissioner Gennell asked why another alternative of acquiring additional right-of-ways was not mentioned. Commissioner Gennell said she would like to see some figures/estimates of what it would involve to increase the right-of-way, to increase the intersection and adequate shoulders. Commissioner Gennell said she is in favor of putting a path on one side of the road, making it a bridal path throughout the community. Manager McLemore suggested to the Commission that a rural estate standard needs to be developed. Commissioner McLeod asked about a time frame with regard to establishing a rural estate standard and will that slow up the process. Mr. LeBlanc stated that this would take an ordinance to add to the Code and stated that it could possibly be completed in approximately 120 days. WORKSHOP CITY COMMISSION AUGUST 5. 1996 PAGE 5 Commissioner Ferring said it is important to have communication with the residents that will have the paving as there are different opinions regarding sidewalks and paths etc. Mayor Bush said there is consensus of the Commission to have the Manager go ahead with the rural road concept. Mr. Nold asked ifthere could be consideration of having retention ponds instead of having ditches. Mayor Bush called for a recess at 8:50 p.m. Mayor Bush reconvened the meeting at 8:58 p.m. SPECIAL MEETING FOLLOWING WORKSHOP Roll Call: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor John Ferring, present City Manager Ron McLemore, present Commissioners: Larry Conniff, absent John Langellotti, present Cindy Gennell, present David McLeod, present Consider Request of Winter Springs Civic Association Parade Committee to bid on a Parade Float being surplused by the Naval Training Center in Orlando. FL: Manager McLemore stated that we have put a bid on this for $5,001.00. We can take the bid back if the Commission chooses not to bid on this. The bids will be opened at 1 :00 p.m. tomorrow. Manager McLemore described the parade float to the Commission. Discussion. Mayor Bush stated that the City has two activities in the City that brings the City together one being the Parade and the other the Art Festival. Mayor Bush said even though it wasn't budgeted, this activity he feels is very worthwhile for the City, it is one of the few times that we get together as a City. Mayor Bush said he hasn't spoken to any to the people on the Parade Committee but these are people that have been involved in the City and said he would like to have the Commission give this serious consideration. Mayor Bush said the Parade Committee would not have recommended this if they didn't think it was in the best interest of the City. Commissioner Ferring mentioned that this request has not been before the Board of Directors of the Civic Association. Commissioner Ferring said personally he doesn't see this request as a benefit for the City. Commissioner Ferring stated that he feels the City should pull the bid and ask the Navel Training Center to donate the float to the City. Don Wilson, Parks and Recreation Director, stated that he was working with the B.O.W.S. Board and Civic Assoc., trying to get the two groups together to consider having an additional event at one of the City Parks (preferably Central Winds Park) after the parade concluded. There was a meeting scheduled and members from the B.O.W.S. Bd., somehow didn't get it on their calendar and didn't show; the Parade Committee and he met. Time was discussed to take back to the B.O.W.S. Bd. and WORKSHOP CITY COMMISSION AUGUST 5. 1996 PAGE 6 said he met separately with the B.O.W.S. Bd. and the conclusion was that we couldn't mesh the concluding hour of the parade with an event in the Park. The B.O.W.S. Bd., is now going in the direction of trying to solicit donations (with the Commission's approval and the Commission will be getting an agenda item on this) to solicit from the businesses in the area to sponsor floating a tree in the retention area of the ampi-theater area at the park and have a lighting ceremony there. Mr. Wilson said after meeting with the Parade Committee nothing was mentioned to him about the parade float. Mr. Wilson stated that what is before the Commission tonight is does the Commission think it (float) has been a good element of the parade and is it worth that amount of money to keep it and to have it as an aspect of the parade in the future. Mr. Wilson stated that storage of the float is an issue. Discussion. lP. Petrensik, Purchasing Director, gave a description of the float. Motion was made by Commissioner Langellotti to withdraw the bid for the parade float. Seconded by Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion passes. Motion was made by Commissioner Gennell to send a letter stating that if no one bids on the parade float the City will otTer a $1.00 bid. Seconded by Commissioner Ferring. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye. Motion passes. Manager McLemore stated that Acting Police Chief Pieper will give the Commission an update on the opening of the School. Acting Police Chief Pieper stated that the High School has opened and gave a presentation of the traffic situation and discussed the traffic problem at Trotwood Blvd. Commissioner Ferring mentioned that the crossing guards cause some of the problem with using their key to stop traffic. The meeting adjourned at 9:55 p.m. APPROVED: Respectfully Submitted, )..~ ~~~~~';.u Margo . Hopkin , City Clerk