HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994 10 12 City Commission Workshop Minutes
WORKSHOP
CITY COMMISSION
OCTOBER 12,1994
The workshop meeting was called to order by Mayor John F. Bush at 5:00 P.M.
Roll Call:
Mayor John F. Bush, present
Deputy Mayor John V. Torcaso, absent
City Manager John Govoruhk, present
City Attorney Frank Kruppenbacher, present
Commissioners:
John Ferring, present
John Langellotti, present
Cindy Gennell, present
David McLeod, present
Classification and Pay Study for the City of Winter Springs:
Mayor Bush said the purpose for today is for Mr. Pellegrino to go over the study that he has
prepared for the City and give the Commission a chance to respond to it; also to make this
information available for the public's consumption.
Mr. Pellegrino of Cody and Associates, said the study itself is a classification and salary study for
the City of Winter Springs. The way that we did this study is we had each employee fill out a
position questionnaire depicting their duties and responsibilities; from that we interviewed some
people and evaluated the questionnaires, we have a point evaluation system we utilized, and we
arrived at if there were changes that were necessary for any classifications or individuals. From
that we embarked upon the salary survey, we did the survey in two areas, in the local area and in
the region; it depended upon the classification, where you recruited for the individual, is where we
looked for the information. We received the information and from that we developed not only the
salary recommendations and levels but also recommended a pay plan which you can continue to
administer your pay policies. The salaries weren't in really bad shape, there were individual
adjustments to most of the classifications and they appear in the report. From that point we
redrafted all the class descriptions and distributed them, and right now we are still getting some
questions on those regarding different classifications, so we are looking at that and that will
continue on probably for the next month until we get those exactly to reflect any organizational
change and any new additions and various things such as that.
Commissioner Ferring said as he went through each individual job title, I am very disturbed by a
disclaimer in every title where it has minimum qualifications, education and experience, and that
title is a comparable amount of training and education and experience can be substituted for the
minimum qualifications. I don't know if that is on a grandfathered basis or what, but where is and
who can make a determination regarding that particular phrase; if you have minimum
qualifications but yet it can be traded off in various ways that are intangible at this point. Who is
to make those kind of determinations.
Mr. Pellegrino said for example you may have a situation where one of your minimum
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City Commission
October 12, 1994
Page 2
qualifications may be that a person has to have a college degree and one or two years experience,
you may get an individual that applies for the job that has actually done the job, and is lacking
maybe the full degree but has 10-15 years proven experience doing the functions that you've laid
out for the job. I think you have to have at least a leeway somewhere to say maybe we should or
should not consider this individual as an either or type thing, the basic thing you are looking for is
the best person. Who makes that decision? You are going to have a fairly standard type of policy
throughout the City, you can't make it one situation one way and contradictory in another
department. Discussion. Commissioner Ferring said shouldn't you have some kind of standard
that you just can't go below that line~ whoever is in the position to do the hiring can use whatever
determination they feel. Commissioner Ferring said that he thinks there should be some type of a
minimum standard for a classification. Discussion.
Mr. Pellegrino said if the City feels uncomfortable with that disclaimer, you can remove it, but we
have to make sure that the minimum qualifications are what you want. Commissioner McLeod
said I think what Mr. Ferring is asking is that you (Pellegrino) give us guideline such as three
years in the work force is equivalent to one year of college education, a consistency of that
because you give the same guidelines to the next department head as you gave to the other
department hear. Mr. Pellegrino said yes we can do that.
Mayor Bush said that he agrees with Commissioner Ferring totally on this, I think in government
especially it needs to be very precise, it can't be up for a judgement call, we are not running a
private business here, it needs to be very clear to people that apply for jobs they do or do not
qualify so that we don't give the appearance that we're fluctuating the requirements to hire a
certain person when somebody else may appear to be extremely more qualified. I work for the
State and this is what is in all of our jobs descriptions in these types~ it's a minimum educations or
a substitution of so many years of directly related work experience can knock down the degree
requirements and there is no doubt, you know if you qualify for ajob. Mr. Pellegrino said we can
do that, that is not a problem. Mayor Bush asked if the Commission had any objection to this
being done. There was no objection from the Commission.
Commissioner Ferring said where does the job descriptions come from, we know that most of the
employees of the staff have made their own job descriptions per say, is that correct. Mr.
Pellegrino said you fashion job descriptions after what the individual is doing if what the
individual is doing is what is approved by the supervisor or department head, as this is the
function we want them to do~ there are many things if you looked at the questionnaires that
individuals are doing and are not really what is considered essential functions that are outside and
just may be a one or two type thing, it is not sanctioned by a superintendent or department head it
does not become part of the job classification.
Commissioner Ferring said as a point of conversation, in the Police Department in their
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City Commission
October 12, 1994
Page 3
dispatching unit, physical requirements is that dispatchers may not wear a hearing aid, yet the
supervisor can wear a hearing aid, and they fill in as a dispatcher. Mr. Pellegrino said those type
of things are the kind of things that we are working out right now, the department heads are
looking through them now and I'm sure we'll get a lot of questions.
Commissioner Ferrlng remarked that under Code Enforcement the Inspector is only limited to a
height of 10 feet, we now have a new ordinance that says the height of our buildings can be 35
feet; this should be address - the height requirements that the Code Inspector has to.....Mr.
Pellegrino said that we will check it.
Commissioner Ferrlng said under the classification and pay study, even the job descriptions and
the minimum requirements and educational requirements are comparable if not more, there seems
to be a difference between a Police Chief and Fire Chief why is that. Mr. Pellegrino said basically
that stems from the survey data and it's traditional most places Police Chiefs more than Fire
Chiefs. Commissioner Ferrlng said he was for full equality, he thinks the responsibility is equal on
both parts and I think it should be an equal standard. Mr. Pellegrino said you could set that as a
policy; what we reflected was the survey data.
Mayor Bush said that he agrees with Commissioner Ferrlng regarding the pay grade for the Police
and Fire Chiefs and said he doesn't understand why they wouldn't be the same pay grades. On
your recommendations, reclassifying the positions such as you recommended establishing the new
classifications, one of the things though on page 20 of the red book, on the probationary period, I
don't believe you've recommended a time and procedures for the probationary period do you, how
long does the probationary period last? Mr. Pellegrino said no they haven't, I think you have a
policy, usually police officers are a year, maybe fire is a year or close to it, all others are and it
varies, and they vary from 90 to 180 days. Mayor Bush asked if the City has a probationary
period. Manager Govoruhk said yes we do have a one year probation City wide. Discussion.
Mr. Pellegrino said basically what he recommended was based on a salary point of view, I
mentioned here from a salary point of view once they have completed a probationary period they
should receive some consideration for an increase. When you get into policies and procedures
how long it should be, that is part of your policies and procedures that you go on with
employment and everything else. Discussion.
Mayor Bush mentioned on page 24 he agrees wholeheartedly with the City not being tied to a
cost living, and on page 25 it is recommended that the City do a salary and wage survey annually,
I don't think that it needs to be done annually maybe every couple of years. Pellegrino said the
survey should be good for three to four years, somebody has to watch the market. Mayor Bush
said on page 26 you are recommending a merit bonus program and said that he thinks that is a
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City Commission
October 12, 1994
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good idea. It states that individuals that reach the maximum of their pay range will be eligible for
a merit type increase annually, this increase will be a lump sum payment and will not be added to
the individual's base salary. Mr. Pellegrino said everybody has a dilemma as to what happens to
our good employees once they reach the maximum of their range, the individual still has an
opportunity to see more money that particular year. Discussion.
Mayor Bush asked about the recommendation of no increase of fringe benefits on page 28. Mr.
Pellegrino said we thought your fringe benefit package was comparable; we looked at it two
ways, we looked at what your total cost of your fringe benefit package is, I think in your case it
was 30 or 31 percent and the average was aroune 31-32; so we look at it as a whole. In some
areas you may be behind but in another area, it balances out. That is why we feel you have to
look at it in total and look at it as total compensation in order to judge it. Mayor Bush said on
page 29 it talks about the cafeteria plan, I think this is something we should implement as soon as
possible, this is a great benefit to the individual as well as to the City. Discussion.
Commissioner Gennell asked how our City Engineer's job description would differ from that of
other Cities, does our City Engineer do any less then Engineers in other Cities. Mr. Pellegrino
said that he didn't know, he would have to go back and look at.... Commissioner Gennell said
that she is looking for it in the book and can't cipher out how you have these arraigned, they don't
seem to be alphabetically, and he is a one man department and I can't find his sheet in here.
Discussion.
Mayor Bush said another thing he would like to mention, under the City Clerk's job, since this is
an appointed position, shouldn't that be in the general description. Mr. Pellegrino said yes, he
then went on to say that he doesn't think the City has a classification for a City Engineer, I don't
think you have a job description yet. Manager Govoruhk told Commissioner Gennell that we just
gave that to the Commission, it was faxed over, the difference between our current engineer and a
city engineer which is covered in the letter, but we haven't received a job description on the city
engineer. Commissioner Gennell said this is a change, and stated that she feels better having seen
this now.
Commissioner McLeod stated that he understands that they took the municipalities regarding the
pay structures for fire and police, did you also look into the private sector for some of these areas.
Mr. Pellegrino said yes, where they could get a match; to get information and get reliable
information from the private sector, you have to look at agencies that have upward of 50
employees, below that there is a tendency to be based on whatever the profit is or pay the people
that they can afford. The labor department just came out with a salary survey in the region and
this was just published, we utilized that as part and then we filled in with some of the larger
agencies that we could find in Seminole County that we used before to try to get some bench
mark feelings of the private sector; but again it's very difficult because there are so many small
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City Commission
October 12, 1994
Page 5
businesses that make up the economy. Commissioner McLeod said so overall this is a comparison
primarily to government and municipalities. Mr. Pellegrino said yes a lot of it is.
Mayor Bush mentioned under the City Clerk's position under the general description it should be
mentioned that it is an appointed position and also under requirements you should add Notary,
that person should be a Notary. The other thing I would like to bring up is the City employees are
eager to find out when all this is going to happen and when the City is going to make decisions
about pay raises, so where are we on this and what kind of a time frame can be established to get
on with this.
Commissioner Ferring stated that he has noticed that there is a wide area under the category of
Administrative Secretary, Senior Accountant Clerk, Accounts Payable Clerk, Accounting Clerk,
Regular Clerk, City Clerk, how do you separate clerical work the way you have done it; what
criteria did you use? Mr. Pellegrino stated there are definite differences in clerical and accounting
positions based on the duties and responsibilities. What we use to separate and we can see
separations we use a point evaluation system. It looks at nine different factors in a persons job,
and that is part our position evaluation that we go through; if we see clearly based on the point
spread and the point spread is usually a person could fall in a 30-40 point swing and be included in
a particular level or classification. Outside of that then it is clearly a difference in either duty
responsibility level or one of the basic factors of the job, and you want to really have some type of
career path especially in a smaller Orgiznation for the people, it is not artificial. Discussion.
Commissioner F erring asked about the recommendation of a pay grade 10 as a data entry clerk
and a pay grade 11 is a billing clerk and a pay grade 14 an accounting clerk and accounts payable
clerk; I am trying to get a feed on how you make a distinction between a data entry clerk and a
billing clerk. Mr. Pellegrino said that is two different jobs, qualifications are not really a
consideration in our point evaluation process, it is what the people are doing to get the level of
what they are doing. The way the salaries are set and where you see them in different levels, that
is the market; what I'm saying there is that the market is paying more for a billing clerk than it is
for a data entry clerk.
Commissioner Ferring said you are saying that the salary ranges is a policy decision, and the
incremental stages it takes to these salary ranges; don't you think it should be something more
tangible instead of being left wide open. Mr. Pellegrino said there are several ways you can move
through a range; you could have what they call a step plan, which we don't recommend.
Discussion. Mr. Pellegrino stated some places have a pay for performance systems, this is based
on the individuals productivity, more people are moving towards that as away from an automatic
increase because with the tight times and tight economic conditions people want to reward
employees, but they want to reward them for something othe~ than just being there. Discussion.
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October 12, 1994
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Attorney Kruppenbacher mentioned that the City of Casselberry has what they call a dual program
that has a 0-5% merit eligibility increase based upon evaluations and the managers are held strictly
accountable on evaluating~ then the Commission evaluates whether or not there will be an increase
independent of the merit increase eligibility and then they evaluate on a year by year basis whether
or not the ranges are changed. Discussion.
Commissioner Gennell asked Mr. Pellegrino ifhe has done any work with orgiznations that use
seem sort of a duel setup where they use a team evaluation approach in conjunction with the
management and how do you feel about that and what is your opinion. Mr. Pellegrino said yes,
he has worked with places that are doing that more and more, that seems to be a trend, a team
evaluation~ it has a lot of merit to it and it's a concept that more and more people are starting to
grasp. There is all kind of ways that you can move throughout the range and it becomes whatever
the Orgiznation's policy wants to be to move people, but there should be a way where a person
gets from minimum to maximum.
Mayor Bush asked if Mr. Pellegrino had made a recommendation on how to do that. Mr.
Pellegrino stated he did for performance, I said it should be based not automatically but on some
type of a performance standard.
Manager Govoruhk stated that in the 15 step we had, was whether you did or did not do any
work at all, automatically every year an employee received 2%. Discussion. Commissioner
Ferring stated that there should be some portion of that salary range which becomes automatic
unless a team evaluation or a supervisory evaluation has definitely said that a person is
substandard in hie/her job. Manager Govoruhk said what we have looked at to get from one pay
range to another is to put a cap on it at 5% per year maximum~ the individual anniversary date
comes around, the supervisor evaluates the employee and then goes to the next person to either
agree or disagree~ then the recommendation is made to the City Manager. But, if the employee is
due for a step increase moving them from one step to another is 5% for the step increase.
Discussion. Manager Govoruhk said this would be done for all employees.
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated that Mr. Pellegrino has brought back to you a classification study
and if you are comfortable with that study you now need to direct your Manager to bring back to
you a proposed plan for implementation. Discussion.
Mayor Bush said we have been waiting on this to do the adjustments that need to be done so we
can give the employees raises, I would think the Commission would want to do at some point, is
lets set the dates so they (the employees) will know when their paychecks will change. I think we
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City Commission
October 12, 1994
Page 7
are stringing them out and I think that we need to get this done.
City Manager Govoruhk said the implementation on page 30, about the classification title; adjust
the salaries of the employees who are now being paid below, bring them up to the minimum.
Consider adjusting any employee where it has been one or more years, like we are talking about
from the zero, on their anniversary date to implement the plan that use to be and that we are still
using to go from zero to 5%; any employee presently being paid above the maximum, we have
accepted that that employee is frozen but the opportunity would be there that that employee be
evaluated and be given a one time bonus, that is Staffs recommendation.
Commissioner McLeod said that he would like to know how many employees and overall dollar
value are you talking that says you are below this grade and he would also like to know how
much dollar value that you are talking that is above the grade. Manager Govoruhk said roughly
to bring everybody up to minimum would be approximately $54,000.00 and that is City wide.
Manager Govoruhk also stated subject to bargaining from the Fire Department. To put it City
wide even looking at 0-5%, and we area using an average of 3% due to the phase in from month
to month; would equal roughly $189,000.00 to a total of $200,000.00-$222,000.00 for the year
which we are still what we were saying last year give or take it would cost us about $200,000.00
so we are still in the ballpark figure this year. Discussion.
Commissioner Ferring stated that he doesn't want to mix a general increase in with a salary range
of a specific title, I don't think they should be co-mingled. I think that there is two separate
entities here and I think when an employee is doing the work that he should be doing there should
be some structure in place outside a basic wage increment that is given by this Commission in the
budget etc., that will be a percentage of their salary range. Discussion.
Mayor Bush stated that we will ask the City Manager to come back with recommendations for the
Commission on this, I would like to have nailed down a little, is what can we do right away, and
what we can do later on to give the employees an idea when this will be finished.
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated the City Manager is recommending on page 30, the adoption of a
plan, the base level, which you could put on your next agenda. Commissioner Ferring is raising
legitimate issues about how are you going to implement that plan in the years to come; I think that
the City Manager, Mr. Pellegrino and the Staffhave not analyzed those type issues yet, what they
have analyzed is getting this plan into place at the base level. What the Commission is now saying
is once the plan is in effect we would like to have brought back to us how are employees going to
be moving next year, how are you going to be handling this and that is the second prong that the
City Manager has got to bring back to you. The Manager is ready to go at this point with a
recommendation at your next meeting that you make that implementation stage take place.
Discussion.
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City Commission
October 12, 1994
Page 8
Harry Martin, Finance Director stated that there is only one position that had a tremendous swing
from the current salary from what the minimum which is a 9 thousand dollar swing on a $35,000
salary. Most of the others were less than 10%.
Commissioner Ferring said he would like to put forth something now for the Commission's
consideration and that is he would like to see the Commission recommend right now before we go
any further is giving.a basic general increase to all employees and then further develop the
structure as we are going with this so that at least we are giving the employees, who have been
waiting a good long period of time a raise; we have talked about this and we have allocated for
that so why can't we just do that first and then further develop this and get the kinks out that we
all seem to have questions on. Commissioner Gennell stated that she agrees that we need to get
this going and can appreciate the City Manager coming back with methods of accomplishing the
plan, but while we are talking about it, I would like to suggest that you might consider a
combination of the team evaluation in conjunction with the foreman or supervisor and weighing
each one about 50% so this precludes favoritism and that kind of thing and on the other hand the
team approach, who really knows whether somebody is carrying his weight better than their
fellow employees. Discussion.
Mayor Bush stated that he thinks what Commissioner Ferring is saying at this point is that he is
looking for the Commission to come forward at the next meeting with a recommendation of an
increase of "X" percent now and work through these other things as the Manager can come up
with solutions. Commissioner Gennell asked if there is anybody in the City who is not affected at
all if we just implemented the bringing it up to par and not do some kind of across the board, is
there anybody that would not get an increase. Mr. Martin stated that there would be a lot of
people. Mayor Bush asked if anybody is above their level and Martin said yes a few people.
Commissioner McLeod stated if everyone gets a across the board 3% then how do you turn
around and go back to this and let the Manager then evaluate everyone, I think you are putting
him in a tough position because right now he may have people that is only going to get a 2 or 3%
based on their base salary where they are now at according to this study to where he feels they
should be. I don't mean to slow the process, I just don't want to throw something out here that
puts the City Manager in a bad position with the thing, and I really do agree of those people that
are below where they should be, I think they should be brought up and then they should be looked
at from that point. When these people are brought up to the minimum, that is not a pay raise,
that's only bringing them up, then they need to be looked at for perhaps a pay raise based on last
years merit. Discussion.
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City Commission
October 12, 1994
Page 9
Commissioner Ferring said what we are doing here is we are trying to implement a long term plan
but in the interim period of time and we discussed this in the budget, right now the employees
should be getting some type of remuneration while we go through whatever steps that are
necessary to bring this all into line. If it increases the individual employee whatever level it is, that
will have to be taken into consideration when you are making your policy plans. Discussion.
Commissioner McLeod said why don't we say that this will become retroactive as of a certain
date. Discussion.
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated if you go to item "A" that is the foundation to anything you are
going to do, the recommendation from your City Manager is to bring back at your next meeting
for adoption the class titles, class descriptions and salary schedule as recommended in this report;
the first question is - is there anything you want him to consider in that recommendation between
today and the next meeting, only on item "A". Commissioner Gennell said the only exception that
I would ask him to point out any exceptions or discrepancies that he recognizes and point them
out to us.
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated that there has been much discussion about unique issues regarding
particular departments and the impact of each one of these items and the issues you have raised on
those departments concerns; the recommendation from your Staff unanimously is that they are
recommending that whatever is done by this Commission be retroactive to October 1, 1994. They
are asking you to have until the first meeting in Dec. at which time the entire package will be
presented to you for approval that will deal with each and every issue that you have raised. In the
interium they will as a team, work through each issue, they will assure that they are available to
dialog with each one of you regarding concerns you have etc., and get this product in final form
for approval. Mayor Bush said his only concern is that the first meeting in Dec. we will have a
new Commission. Attorney Kruppenbacher said then make it the last meeting in Nov.
Commissioner Ferring said he still stand by his thoughts tht as far as he is concerned, he has no
problem with the minimum salary range schedules that are in this package, my suggestion is that
we go to the minimum salary ranges for all employees and then give a general increase of3%
across the board and then get an opportunity to refine whatever we have to do as far as working
out the rest of the problems.
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated that these people are accountable for managing your departments
and your Manager is accountable for managing the City, we are aware right now of significant
compression problems, the adoption of paragraph "B" would call, no thought has been given to
resolving those issues, to how to deal with those issues, to what to do with those issues. We
could be creating a far larger problem and doing more injustice, for example if you give an
employee who been at level 2 a 1,200 dollar increase to bring him up to the minimum and another
City Commission Workshop
October 12, 1994
Page 10
employee a 100 dollar increase and there are suddenly people who have been here 5 yrs. and 1 yr.
you have moral problems, what your Staff is reasonably asking is they have gotten this, there are
issues that you've raised, they want to work them out, they want to go tell their employees the
positive will be what we work out will be retroactive to Oct. 1, 1994. Mayor Bush asked if any
of the Commissioners have any problem with that. There was no objection.
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated the Staff want time to take what each one of you has raised, they
want to sit down as a team and talk over all this and then bring you back a proposed solid solution
to all the issues. Then have you make a decision on the whole package and be done with it, which
would be given to you in advance so you will have time to go through it. Discussion. Attorney
Kruppenbacher said between now and the next meeting the City Manager will bring back
recommendations regarding the 3%, you can't make a decision now so let him now go over this
with his Staff and at your meeting it will be on your agenda for him to give you whatever
recommendations or options he proposes on that issue. Discussion. Commissioner Gennell said
another option would be if we were going to consider any percent of a raise and make it
retroactive to Oct. 1 st, and we know the people need some kind of raise, so we will implement
something across the board but we are not going to implement the study until maybe April 1 st or
something; that is another option. Discussion. Commissioner Ferring said there are two sets of
values that we have to deal with; we have to deal with the salary ranges and we have to deal with
the general increase; there is nothing wrong with the recommendation of right now giving the
employees a 3% across the board increase with no real time constraint to get the other technical
problems resolved. Ifit takes us until the end of December, so be it, as long as it is retroactive to
Oct. 1 st. Discussion.
Mayor Bush stated that he wants to make sure that we are doing what the City Manager and the
department heads think is right for the employees and I think the Commission is trying to say that
we want act on this as expediently as possible, we don't want to be the reason that they are not
getting their pay raises. So, can you Mr. Govoruhk take what was said here tonight and come
back with so solid recommendations at the next meeting to implement these things, over whatever
time period you think is appropriate. Discussion.
The meeting adjourned at 6:40 p.m.
-5spectfullY sub~~d, /
A'~
Margo opkins
Acting City Clerk