Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994 04 28 City Commission Workshop Minutes . . . JOINT WORKSHOP MEETING CITY COMMISSION WITH BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS APRIL 28, 1994 The joint Workshop Meeting was called to order by Mayor John F. Bush at 4:30 p.m. Roll Call: Mayor John F. Bush present Deputy Mayor John V. Torcaso, present City Manager John Govoruhk, present City Attorney Frank Kruppenbacher, present Commissioners: John Ferring, present John Lange11otti, present Cindy Genne11, arrived 5:10 p.m. David McLeod, present Board of County Commissioners: Dick VanDerWeide, Chairman, present Pat Warren, present Daryl McLain, present Larry Furlong, present Carlton Henley, present Mayor Bush expressed his appreciation to the County Commissioners for taking their time to be here today and meet with the Winter Springs Commission. Also present: Jerry McCollum, County Engineer, J. R. Ball, who is the Assistant County Engineer, Frank VanPelt who heads up design activities and Jerry Mathews who is the Project Manager on the Tuskawi11a project. . Mr. McCollum explained they made a presentation to the City Commission about a year ago on Tuskawi11a Phase 3 which is from East Lake Drive up to Winter Springs Boulevard. He said that project has gone through the public involvement process and the Board adopted the typical section and alignment approximately a year ago. Tuskawi11a 4 is the piece that goes from Winter Springs Boulevard to S. R. 434. Mr. McCollum said they have not begun the design ort;;tnat at all. He said he has met with our Staff and they have expressed their concerns. He said their intent on any project they do in a City is to work with you and hopefully any concession or modifications we would like, they will do their best to work with us. Mr. McCollum went on to say many times they have to look at certain design constraints and those are times they may disagree, but in general, especially in Phase 3 where there were some concerns expressed by our Staff and Mr. McCollum said he thinks they have been resolved. He said several issues they dealt with on the church on Phase 3 was being sure that St. Stephens had adequate traffic circulation, they signed a purchase agreement and an agreement with the Church in terms of the retention basin there, as well as a future circulation plan with the Church. He said they have dealt with Father Bluett numerous times and that actual agreement has gone to the Board of County Commissioners and is already approved. Mr. McCollum said over the next four years they will be upgrading Tuskawi11a Road from S. R. 426 all the way to S.R. 434, the entire length of the corridor. Phase 1 which is the piece of Tuskawi11a from A10ma to Red Bug Lake Road will be ready for construction fall of this year, 1994. The next portion goes from REd Bug to Dyson or to East Lake Drive, that is Phase 2 and that should begin construction around the first part of 1995. Phase 3 goes from Dyson East Lake up to Winter Springs Boulevard. . : Joint Workshop Meeting, April 28, 1994 Page 2 . Phase 4 goes from Winter Springs to SR 434. Tuskawilla from East Lake Drive all the way to SR 434, their plans of construction start in the fall of 1996 and this is again depending upon revenue coming in and that they do not get stuck in court on right of way acquisition. Projects like this take approximately 18 months to do, so start Fall of 1996 should be done around the spring of 1998. Mr. McCollum said the State has made a schedule for SR 434 from SR 419 to Tuskawilla Road. The first part of 1995 they should begin construction on that section and then from Tuskawilla to the Expressway, they do not have that scheduled until FY 1997-98. Mr. Ball gave a brief presentation pointing to the map on the wall. He explained the right of way varies from 83 feet to 114 feet at various locations in the overall length of the project. Current traffic flows deal about 19,000 cars a day which puts it at a level of service D and E. There are traffic lights at Dyson, East Lake Drive, Winter Springs Boulevard and the land use is basically residential with two exceptions - two churches. Mr. Ball said they widen roads for three reasons, safety, capacity and traffic operation. The traffic over the life of the project will put this road at 40,000 cars a day and "the two lane facility will accommodate that traffic. The typical section that was selected for this particular roadway is a four lane divided urban section that means curb and gutter, 5 foot sidewalks on either side, and a raised grass median. He said they are using a 22 foot median to accommodate future contemplation of landscaping down the center as well as to allow any turn movements. He explained their objective in setting the alignment was to minimize the impact to the adjacent properties and to achieve the physical section that is needed to expand this roadway. . Phase 4 basically starts in the area of Winter Springs Boulevard, goes to SR 434. Mr. McCollum said they anticipate a straight shot from Winter Springs Boulevard to SR 434. They anticipate a similar design approach and of course they have not gotten into the details yet. Mr. McCollum explained whenever they begin a road they have an extensive public involvement process. When they did Phase 3 they had numerous meetings with the public, public hearings before the Board and also a special presentation here. When they start Phase 4 they will have at least two major advertised public involve- ment meetings for all the citizens to come to the meetings, and also a public hearing before the Board of County Commissioners. Mr. McCollum said if the City would like them to make any special type of presentation to them during the development of the project they would be more than happy to do that. He said they would also be willing to meet with the Staff. Commissioner Ferring asked Mr. McCollum to elaborate on the agreements that have been made with St. Stephens Church. Mr. McCollum explained the southernmost entrance because of the proximity, the nearness to Winter Springs Boulevard, will be blocked off with a median. However, the entry point just north of there will have a median opening. It is under Phase 3. . Mr. McCollum said since they are going to let the whole thing at one time, what has been discussed with the Church and what they have also indicated they would like the County to do is that they will leave the two access points they have now as right in, right out, basically, and they will then at the very north end of their property they are directly across a dedicated public road; that will be their main access point with Joint Workshop Meeting, April 28, 1994 Page 3 . a median opening at that point. That is what the Church has asked the County to consider and Mr. McCollum said that has been done. He said they also have the retention pond - they have already purchased that from the Church and basically those are the issues that he is aware of with the church and they have been resolved. Comm.Ferring said in his conversations with Father Bluett there is no way he wants his southernmost exit cut off. Mr. McCollum said he would look into that. Commissioner Ferring said he would like to ask the County Commission to consider a moratorium on the construction of this project. He said there are several reasons; one is the cost factor; two is the TMP plan that was conducted by Seminole County in connection with the Beltway made recommendations and the Beltway Commission them- selves made recommendations as far as the impact of what Tuskawilla Road would have on the Beltway. At this particular point they are indicating there will be no impact whatsoever on the Beltway when its Phases 1 and 2, or very little if any impact on Phases 3 and 4. Commissioner Ferring said therefore the design standards that have been put forth for Tuskawilla Road, which is a local road, would serve a residential community to me, appears very much over designed. . The second point Commissioner Ferring was trying to bring out is the 22 foot median. Commissioner Ferring said from our own consulting engineers, the median could go down to l5~ feet if it was 40 mph or less. The 22 foot median would create a tremendous undue hardship on the west side of Tuskawilla Road, not only aesthetically but for hea~th and safety of the residents that live alongside of that road. He said these particular issues have really not been addressed to the satisfaction of the City. Commissioner Ferring said that he did not know if there was a lack of communication or what, but our Staff and engineers were never consulted regarding the design standards. Commissioner Ferring said a lot of your information is coming from the Green Book which is the 1989 edition with revisions. He said he verified with DOT, and they are not going to be using them any more as their standards. In the Green Book under Section 3, Page 1, there is a statement he said he would like to put on the record: "because of relatively low traffic volumes and extensive mileage design standards for local roads and streets are of a comparatively low order as a matter of practicality. In restricted or unusual conditions it may not be possible to meet the minimum standards." Commissioner Ferring then read from the County's Comprehensive Plan, page 171 accessibility to public uses: the County shall amend the Land Development Code by 1992 to include standards relating to when and where pedestrian, bicycles and vehicular linkages between abutting residential areas are required to provide convenient access to recreational sites, schools, libraries, shopping locations, etc. Vehicle connections between subdivisions shall be designed to serve local residents and preclude traffic." Commissioner Ferring said what we are doing here is cutting a lot of these schools and churches out by putting this median in. He went on to Page 324 and 325 of the Traffic Circulation Element: that was the design element, which was not a mandatory element to be put in but the County chose to put it in. "Many road design elements must be correlated with the functiGn of the roadway in order to provide an acceptable level of service." . ~ . Joint Workshop Meeting, April 28, 1994 Page 4 Commissioner Ferring explained when we get into an acceptable level of service by your own standards, the level of service that we have on Tuskawilla Road runs at peak hours from A, B, C, D, very few Es and on one occasion F which is unacceptable and that particular location is the intersection of Lake Road and Dyson Road. The whole area of Tuskawilla Road, the only unacceptable level of service you have at this time is that intersection. So Mr. Ferring asked, why the need to design or over design a whole road for the basis of level of service on just one intersection. Commissioner Ferring went on to read from the County's Comprehensive Plan: the area between a building on the site and a roadway is important; it is the area within which the buffer must be constructed to protect the building and its occupants and it is the area that determines the character and quality of the roadway. It goes on to say adequate setbacks for future right of way needs is absent and the proximity of the residents to noise, fumes and visual pollution is too great; there should be a standard 50 foot building setback from all arterials. He read on: the acquisition of right of way too close to residential building destroys their viability; this situation should be examined by the County. Commissioner Ferring then read Sec. 6.5l(b) Land Development Regulations: this comes under fences, buffers and berms: states, fences shall be required on lot lines which border collector or arterial streets; masonry walls or suitable alternatives shall be provided when noise from adjacent streets is or may become a problem. . Commissioner VanDerWeide asked if the Winter Springs Commission has taken action on the moratorium and Commissioner Ferring said it is a suggestion he is bringing up and he is just speaking for himself on this moratorium. Mr. McCollum said on the moratorium that is the Board of County Commissioners decision. He said one of the key issues he deals with is concurrency in the County. He said they are currently reviewing the high school for concurrency applications and they are assuming this road will be four laned at x amount of time for that project to happen. Mr. McCollum explained Tuskawilla Road is not a local road, it is a minor arterial by State Statute. He said they would work with whatever latitudes they have and on an arterial you have to look at a median width of 19~ to 22 feet. If you drop your median width below 22 feet then if you want to put trees in the median that will eventually be over 4 inches in diameter at maturity you can not do it unless it is a minimum of 22 feet. Chairman VanDerWeide said what he is hearing the width of the median which seems to be a major problem and the buffer. Mr. McCollum stated they have not started the design of Phase 4 at all. Mayor Bush clarified the Winter Springs Commission has not formally asked for a moratorium. . Mr. McCollum said he understands our concerns especially on the west side, both south of Winter Springs Boulevard and the portion north where you have Oak Forest. He said the width of the median really is irrelevant in terms of the buffering issue because what is going to happen, if you look at what is over there, if you put a two foot wide median you are still going to get into those trees and the other issue is the overhead power lines. Those power lines get moved back to the right of way line, so even if you could save a few trees the power lines are going to cut the trees down. . . . . . . Joint Workshop Meeting, April 28, 1994 Page 5 Commissioner McLain said we have numerous roads that we will be constructing over the next 8 years, and one of the major issues we are talking about here is walls to be constructed for safety purposes along these right of ways. He said he is concerned about the other roads the County has to build and the cost of the walls and how that will affect the referendum and the cost of the building program they have established for Seminole County and all the cities that are included in that. He said would they have the responsibility to discuss this with all the cities to reevaluate all the priorities what they are going to do concerning walls. County Manager Ron Rabun said the County's preliminary estimates on this particular wall is $400,000. He said when you begin to add that kind of a cost to the financial feasibility picture for roads, he said he would worry that they would not have enough money. Commissioner McLain explained the reason he asks that question is because on 46A in Sanford is a project the County is working on and there are numerous sub- divisions along that right of way that do not have walls. He said if we decide that walls are necessary for the public safety, it would be remiss on their part not to construct those walls along those right of ways also. He said this is a bigger problem than just one wall along Tuskawilla Road in Winter Springs and he said he would like for the Board to think about evaluating that and come to some conclusion as to how they are going to deal with the issue. County Manager Rabun explained there are a variety of ways of handling that. Commissioner McLain said the reason he mentioned this is that the sales tax money will only go so far, and if they are going to start building these walls that means some one within the process is going to have a road unfunded and they will be very unhappy. He suggested maybe this should go to the Council of Local Governments. Bruce Behrens, Assistant to the City Manager, gave a quick summary, and he recommended that the two staffs be directed to get back together to address these concerns. Mayor Bush summarized the concerns about the Catholic Church, the buffering and the walls, and the width of the median are all the concerns that hopefully will be resolved. Meeting was adjourned at 6:15 p. m. Respectfully submitted, Mary T. Norton, City Clerk