HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979 08 01 Regular
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'-ClJARK, DIETZ - ENGINEERS INC..
P. o. BOX 1976. 500 WEST FULTON · SANFORD, FLORIDA 32771 I
August 1, 1979
Mr. Richard Rozansky, City Manager
City of Winter Springs
400 N. Edgemon Avenue
Winter Springs, Florida' 32707
Re: Tuscawilla Unit 9-A
CDE Job No. 6136.05 - 81
Dear Dick:
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We have reviewed.the revised final engineering plans for the
above-referenced project as submitted by the developer.
It is our 'understanding that the developer wishes to build
model homes on the 16 lots of Section 9-A while completing
the engineering on Section 9 and certain additional engineering
on Section 9-A ~n conjunction with Section 9.
From an engineering standpoint, the only way we can accept this
procedure would be under the following conditions, which basically
are items remaining to be satisfied on the Section 9-A plans and
plat. at this time:
1) Aroils report from a soils consultant showing additional
borings, ground water table data, and recommendations on
depth of street cuts, location and amount of underdrains,
underdrain construction details and similar data be sub-
natted for City review and approval prior to the under-
taking of any road sub-base or base construction on Section
9-A. Other preliminary construction work might be allowed
to proceed in .the interim in Section 9-A but no road sub-
base or base work cou~d be allowed until the additional
soils data is submitted. It should be clearly understood
that, depending on the soils information subsequently
to be submitted and our subsequent'review of that data,
some modifications may be necessary in the street cuts
or other construction shown on the plans for section 9-A
at this time.
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CORPORATE OFFICE: 211 NORTH RACE STREET. URBANA. ILLINOIS 61801. (217) 384-1400
OFFICES IN: FLORIDA. ILLINOIS. MISSISSIPPI · MISSOURI . TE~Ij\'ESSEE
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Mr. Richard Rozansky, city Manager
August 1, 1979
2) An off site drainage easement is needed for Section 9~A,
and should be recorded by separate instrument because it
is not on the plat.
3) Power company, t€lephone, cable TV and other needed
easements required by these utilities other than drainage
and water and sewer need to be added to the final plat
prior to recording.
4) The Standard Provisos of approval.(attached) should also
apply.
5) A suitable performance bond or substitute acceptable to
the Ci.ty in the amount of $208,000 should be submitted.
If we can be of further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely Yours,
;q;;P;~:RS'
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INC.
BCC/lmg
cc:
.Honorable TroyjPlland, Mayor
Mr. Art Barr-/
Mr. Charlie True
Enclosure
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" Tra~script from Planning loning Board Meeting, August 1,~79:
Chairman Fusco said he would like to add something to the agenda. He said, "we
had a request to discuss Tuscawi11a Sec. 9A - if there is no objection I would
like to open the floor." No objections. Mr. Art Barr - preliminary approval
of engineering and plat for 9A was approved in mid April by Zoning Board and
City Council. We presented our final engineering to Clark, Dietz & Associates
on July 10 in hopes of getting it on the prior P&Z agenda which was the 18th. We
received information back from Clark, Dietz approximately the 17th that. there were
some problems - went back to the drawing board and my records show that on July 23
revised drawings were presented to Clark Dietz. During the week of July 3 there
was considerable dialogue taking place between our engineer and the city's engineer.
On the 25 because of the ambiguities going back and forth we requested a copy of
their internal memo which listed the items that they wanted us to change. Then
after a review of that we held a meeting with them this Monday and this was prior
to us being made aware that you are locking in on Friday - we understand why you
are doing that. On Monday we spent an hour in conference with Charlie True, myself
and Ca1 Conklin and Mike Davis and answered all the questions that they had and
they agreed to write a letter of acceptance with certain conditions. Now they
agreed to write that letter on Monday. I arrived at their office this morning
and said I wouldn't leave until they gave me that letter. I finally got it this
morning and hand carried it here. I would like to present you with a copy of it.
The engineer's letter and our response.
Shriver: when we accepted the preliminary plan I believe we accepted it with the
condition that it be accepted on the basis that the development people adhere to
the requirements of the city engineer. What my question is - is there going to be
a change to the plan?
Art Barr: this is the consulting engineer's response to our request for final
engineering and plat approval. He has given that conditional approval. The
reason I am here is that time is very expensive. We were hoping to get it on the
agenda this evening. It was physically impossible for the City to complete their
review and we sincerely appreciate their effort that they did make in getting it
on the agenda tonight. What we are requesting is that, based on this date, that
final plat approval be granted simply to record the plat only, subject to whatever
conditions you want to impose on it including not allowing any building permits to
be drawn. The reason for this is the recording of the plat triggers the legal process
to obtain an abstract to prepare deeds to sell the lots and turn them over to the
builders. This is the new Tuscawi11a collection. The old collection is shutting
down the end of this month. We have a 2-3 month gap as it is. We would not start
any construction or development until the remaining data that we did request is
provided to them and they agree to final engineering. The plat is simply a
horizontal document locating it on the ground; the engineering drawings are the
vertical descriptions of how high and low the roads go - where the water and
sewer - its elevation. So there is no dispute as to that plat document. The plat
has been approved in the preliminary - we-re simply requesting you to approve that
which the engineer has approved, so that we can move forward with ,the stipulation that
we cannot pull any building permits until the remainder is done. This will coincide
with us providing the additional soils data that the engineer is requesting. That's
where we are.
Fusco: your reasoning for this is just for recording purposes so that you can
record the plat.
Barr:so that the abstract company can proceed preparing the abstracts readying to
deed the lots when B&Z approves the final engineering and city council accepts their
recommendation.
Fusco: will all this data be to us at the next meeting?
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Barr: it's this one portion - this one cul-de-sac, Unit 8, the remainder of Unit 9
is still under design. Final engineering is still being prepared and we're
probably about two months away - the questions s that they've had - what kind of
water systems - what kind of gravel conditions do we have in this area - we've taken
tests in this area - haven't completed the various soil tests in the back. Once we
get the final engineering we go in there and clear the right-of-ways at that time
our soils engineer, Gennell and Associates, comes in and does the probes where he
indicates on all those cleared areas. Right now its woods. With those recommendations,
basic design of the roadway, prior to pouring of the curbs and placement of the sub-
base the second series of the tests are made and verified. What we will do now is
go in and clear the right-of-ways - there's no permits required and we will immediately
obtain those soils tests now. Within about one week we will have that data and
whether it gets on next week or two weeks hence doesn't matter. This other process
the legal process which doesn't allow any construction of obtaining the abstract
being able to record deeds is taking place.
Fusco: and you are looking for Sec. 9A only?
Barr: yes.
Logan - this is a reversal of the normal process. Don't we normally after the final
is approved then we go and record the plat?
Barr: We are asking for an approval of the plat of which there is no disagreement.
the only question is how much underdrain should be placed in this roadway, and we
cannot tell right now. We can only tell after an extensive soils test is made, but
in the past that decision has always been one made after the development has been
started. Prior to recording the plat, but simply because of the urgency of having
to get these model homes started this document needs to be recorded to trigger that
whole process.
Logan: in this process, the soils test not being done yet and if you were to get in there
and find conditions that aren't suitable and you've already recorded the plat where
does that leave us?
Barr: it necessitates changing roads. There are some wet areas in 9 which will
require extensive studies or left as drainage areas. There's no concern on the
suitability of the soil. There is just concern where the water table is and what
extent of underdrains we'll have to put in.
Planner - inaudible.
Fusco: if this was approved, Sec. 9A so that you could record it, I don't know if
the City could stop you from selling it~ your initial probe says you don't have a problem
with this particular piece of land; is that consensus by our engineer also?
Barr: quoted the engineer's letter of 8/1/79.
DlfXQn
Fusco: your asking us to help you save time - we want to make sure we don't end up
with a problem later on.
Daniels: I would rather see us call a special meeting when it meets the engineering
requirements and stick with the system.
Fusco: how long would it take you?
Barr: the preparation of the engineering data will probably take us four or five days.
then it might take a week for Clark,Dietz to review.
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Daniels: if you start earlier you complete on time. I jus~ feel they should follow
the process.
Barr: We're not asking the City to allow something that shouldn't be done. We are the
largest taxpayer in the City. I am building my house in the City. We are citizens of
this City. We are coming to you as citizens and we happen to be developers, to ask
your consideration to help us in a legal procedure that in no way will hurt the city,
its citizenry in health, safety, etc. The ordinances are there to protect the
citizens. If we're doing something that does not harm the citizens that's why
your here; to make those decisions.
Logan: if we were to approve the final tonight as you are requesting- its putting
us on the spot because it has not been advertised as far as being on the agenda. You
plan then being ready for Council. I feel as Mr. Daniels pointed out, we do have a
procedure that we should follow. I understand there are circumstances sometimes
when we can deviate for extreme reasons but I don't feel we should make a habit of
this.
Shriver: my question is, what kind of financial impact is it going to have on the
development if it take one or two weeks?
Barr: it will have a direct impact.
Logan: we approved the preliminary and the final came on July 10.
Barr: those changes have been made but they are not 100% sure because they have not
the final soil tests - they are certified engineers and once they certify that
their license is on the line.
Williamson: when Charlie True came before us with the Tennis Villas, he explained
the extensive drainage from the Tennis Villas and Unit 8 were going in that direction
he explained at that time when Unit 9 would be developed there would have to be
extensive drainage done over and above the ordinary otherwise it would drain into
this 9A area - that was his explanation - all the water from these tennis villas
would go into 9 and the topography of the land would go into 9A.
Barr: right here the highest point is 57 feet, down to 45 feet - 12 feet of fall
just on 9A. From there you go all the way down to so really we
have 40 feet of fall from one end of 9 to the other - which really we have to slow
the water down so there's not really a problem as there is a low area - 9A is beautiful.
Williamson: what you are saying is you are compensating for this tremendous
flow of water that is coming from this other area.
Barr: 8 actually flows on the other side of Tuscawil1a Road.
Branson: since we do have a councilman present - I think it might be of benefit
to the Board to see what's his opinion,of Council getting this on such a short notice.
Bennett: just an observer this evening.
Daniels: I appreciate the engineer taking a hard look at this. I feel we would
be doing the taxpayer an injustice to approve this ahead of the process of the final
engineering being approved. I just don't think we should give this approval for
plat recording.
Barr: pointed out par. 1 the engineer's letter. They essentially have approved
the engineering - read part of the letter - subject to final soils data and the
determining the final elevation of that roadway. Our soils engineer has told them
this area will allow us - high water table to undercut - put in clean fill and this
will result without underdrains - if our second series of tests still show
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requiring underdrains then we put in underdrains - these are are a sequence of events
that take place after construction starts and this is what he says in here. So he
has accepted it.
Williamson: what about the possibility of street cuts after you have already started
construction?
Barr: you can go from building roads at the surfact all the way down depending On
whatever cut you want - how much fill you want to get out of the ground. The ideal
thing for road drainage is to build the road on top of the land but what this does
it destroys everything on both sides because you have to build your house above the
roadway and what this means is you have to clear the land of all the trees and put
in fill but you have a desert. So somewhere between putting it on top of the road
and six feet down where you have all this extra dirt that you can sell somewhere in
between is the ideal location for a road where you can save trees have proper drainage
and not have a water problem that is ~ subjective engineering but not a precise science
when it comes to soils.
Fusco: he is basically in here asking us to break the rule so that he can record his
plat. Tuscawilla has ~lways followed procedures. They're trying to save a month
in here to help get their models going. As long as they can't sell the land or
they can't build on it I don't see any reason whey we couldn't put off the legal
procedures and give them a hand.
Logan: Before your model homes are constructed these lots will be sold to individual
builders?
Fusco: They're surely not going to put up a model if there's a problem to show it
for six months or a year - 18 months. They're asking us to help them save four weeks
time even if we decide to help them out Council might decide not to do it.
Branson: I personally don't have any problem making a concession at this time. If
it is the opinion of the Board to meet I would go along with that. I have no problem
with letting them do this on an emergency situation or whatever their dely may have been
caused by.