HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994 07 28 Board of Trustees Regular Minutes
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BOARD OF TRUSTEES MEETING
WINTER SPRINGS PENSION PLAN
JULY 28, 1994
The meeting was called to order by Chainman Hoffmann at 7:35 p.m.
Board Merrbers:
Art Hoffmann, Chairman, Present
Brian Fricke, Present
Joel Berk, Present
Seymour Benman, Present
Ralph Bowman, Present
City Officials:
City Manager Govoruhk
City Attorney Frank Kruppenbacher
City Attorney Tom Lang
Philip G. Robert, Trust Investment Officer, Sun Bank
Eric Bell, Representative Sun Bank
Approval of Minutes of March 29. 1994:
Hoffmann asked if there were any changes or corrections to be made
minutes of March 29, 1994. There were no changes or corrections
minutes of March 29, 1994 approved as presented.
to the
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~arterly Review of th~_Pension Fund with_the Pension Fund Investors:
Philip Robert, Trust Investment Officer, Sun Bank, gave the Board members a
copy of the Perfonmance Report through June 30, 1994.
Robert stated that since he was at the previous meeting there has been
considerable changes in the markets. One of the things that they continue
to see is the deterioration of the Bond Market more than anything else. One
of the things that has been a major factor in the first half of 1994 is a
continued strong economy more than anything else; lately we've had a very
weak dollar that has contributed to the deterioration of Bond Market.
Robert said on the positive side earnings have been very good - I think the
tone for equities is a little more positive now than it has been; certainly
the worst is behind us here, we've had another rate increase in March and
that affected the second quarter tied in through April and then we've had
another "spin" with the weak dollar in late June, which really drove down
most the second quarter results - I think we had a loss of about 3 1/2 - 4
percent in June alone, that was a considerable drop. Overall as far as
things 90 I think we'll see a better economy in the terms that it will slow
, down a little. I think what we are looking for tomorrow for instance in the
GP numbers anything under 4% really should be positive, and I think anything
over 3.7% - 4% in terms of economic growth in the Bond Market will take a
"nose dive" because the Federal Reserve hasn't moved to tighten.
Robert stated the bottom line he thinks, is that equity is before Bonds from
here and that is certainly how our asset allocation model is working with
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Board of Trustees Meeting
winter Springs Pension Plan
Ju 1 y 28, 1994
Page 2
this point with a favor towards equities.
Robert went over with the Board the Performance Report. Robert stated that
the latest quarter down 5.496, we are continuing to maintain basically a
balanced account mixed between Stocks and Bonds, what we are doing at this
point emphasizing more Stocks than Bonds, what we are doing at this point is
moving our asset allocation a little bit more in favor of equity so our
balance accounts are more along the lines of 5596 Stocks, 4596 Bonds. We have
moved the value portion of the portfolio, which value Stocks as a whole have
continued up to perform. We are moving from 2096 of your equity exposure up
to about 3096 of your equity exposure at this time, we don't want to jump
50/50 because we think that would be doing a worse thing; value Stocks have
been great performers and we don't want to chase the Market so to speak.
Growth stocks as a whole are extremely cheap, as cheap as they every have
been on a historical basis. For instance in the latest quarter our growth
went down about 1 1/496, our Value Fund up 3 3/496 and the S & P 500 up just
less a 1/296 Bonds on the other hand, and this is the third quarter in a
row, of negative returns in the Bond Market, our Bond Fund, the high growth
Bond Fund down sightly under a percent; the Bond Index, which is a medium
term index, down about 1 1/496, so for those people who are in cash, they did
9OQd; you don't pay us to manage cash and taking that stance - I think we've
done fairly well roughly in this time period. Looking at how you have done
over the ten months, you have been with us on a accumulative basis down
about 1 1/296, so you have out performed the S & P 500 even though you are
negative, with about half the risk. So our growth down about 35 basis
points, our value fund up just under a half percent and the S & P 500 down
just sightly under 296. The key thing to look at here - look at what Bonds
have done over the last ten months, if you were in the Market, you lost
money almost regardless what you did; so that really hit Municipalities
harder than most people, because most Municipalities have a mandate of only
3096 equity exposure, your group as a whole by having a little bit higher
equity exposure has done well and I think we'll continue to be positioned
well in going forward from here. Again it is difficult for us to bring out
negative returns, certainly we don't like to see that, in these kind of
Market conditions it is almost like you have to avoid the "craters" rather
than picking the good Stocks. Discussion on the breakdown allocation.
Robert stated that the Economic and Investment Outlook bottom line is there
is a very nervous Bond Market and the Federal Reserve has not moved either
way to tighten, and I think that is very necessary, I think if Greenspan and
the F1C don't move to raise interest rates at least a half of a percent by
the F1C meeting in August the Bond Market is really going to take a hit. I
think that that's necessary, if we see 50 basis points I think the Bond
Market will recognize that as a move to really kick back on inflation. I
think Greenspan really wants to be ahead of the curve on inflation rather
than seeing the numbers come out, I think overall we've got some things that
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Board of Trustees Meeting
winter Springs Pension Plan
Ju 1 y 28, 1994
Page 3
can really point to inflation. Discussion. Robert said in 12 months from
now where we expect the Markets to be, I think you can see any where from 7
1/2% to 10% in Stocks, we would be lucky again to see the coupon return in
Bonds with the continue rising interest rate environment and a stronger
economy, I think the key to watch here is if we have a strong economy you'll
get very little in Bond returns, maybe 2%-3%, if the economy slows down we
do hike interest rates a bit, let's say 3/4%-1% over the next 6 months, I
think that Bonds will become a much more attractive instrument towards the
end of the year. So again, if we can get 6% even 5% in the Bond Market in
the next year, I think that would be a very good return. Discussion.
Robert said to keep in mind that 1996 is an election year.
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Discussion on the Performance Report. Robert stated that he thinks what
helped up more than anything that in this difficult time in the Bond Market
is our Bond-L strategy, one is we hold some assets out of the long end to
get the yield that I think you need because income certainly plays a part in
that even though you are getting income we have to have some longer term
maturities in order to get longer or better yields. But, we also have to
hold a lot of our assets in short term instruments to really dampen the
volatility, so we feel that that structure worked. Again I think more than
anything the Markets are going to be really sensitive in what's going on
particularly in the economy, tomorrows number will certainly set the stage
for the rest of the year and whether we turn in positive gains on a calender
year basic in the Stock Market and certainly whether we turn positive gains
in the Bond Market. I think if we sit tight the worst is certainly behind
us in the Stock Market and things can't get too much worse in Bond Market.
Berk asked Robert how does the Board look at this as far as best serving the
people that work for the City; is the mix that you have right now regarding
Bonds and Stocks are going to meet the needs when people retire or leave,
there has to be money for these people for whatever reason, and my question
is if inflation goes up it will "eat" into whatever earnings that you are
going to have, what is going to be the real net whenever they use the money
to be given out as far as distribution is concerned. Would you consider
this portfolio as you now have it conservative and would it warrant perhaps
a more risk taking so that there is a potential for a higher gain?
Robert answered that is certainly a very good question and will put it into
two different perspectives: one in relative to what the average pension plan
would have and then the second I'll put it in perspective of what other
municipalities have done. As I mentioned before in the municipality
perspective - I'm very happy that you are able to use more equities then the
;~ average municipality; which are mandated to use no more than 30% in Stocks,
which means if interest rates start going up in the next five years that
means that inflationary pressures are going to eat into their Bond returns.
As it relates to other municipalities I think having more equities when we
are talking about a pension plan, and we are talking about a longer term
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Board of Trustees Meeting
Winter Springs Pension Plan
July 28, 1994
Page 4
time horizons, you can't get the money out until you are retirement age, so
I think from that perspective, very very good, as far as judiciary duty in
terms of a municipality I think that certainly you are well within what a
prudent man would do for investing retirement funds for the employees. As
far as other pension plans, I would say that across the nation the average
retirement plan is upwards of 55%-60% invested in fixed income assets so you
are talking stable asset funds. It is our opinion that that is too much
that certainly when you are talking, if you look historically certainly
stocks are going to be the best way to do it and unfortunately we can't own
international stocks but I think judging from the bottom line, I think that
you have a good mix because we are mandated to hold high grade securities,
as a method of evaluating I certainly think that you have to look at the
indexes as to how you will accurately gage your manager's performance and
are they in light of the circumstances doing their job. I think you
certainly have a good mix and from a municipality stand point I love it,
this is what I love to see.
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Fricke said your comments lead me to believe that you are pessimistic on
Bonds and optimistic on STocks, why not change the allocation even more so.
Robert said that we can certainly do that, one of the things that we talked
about when we come out here is about asset allocation and I talked a little
about our being a little neutral and negative on Bonds, right now I believe
we are working within the frame work of about 55% equities at this point;
when I first came out here that is what the investment objectives that we
set down, that can be certainly changed at any point. I think when we start
bumping up 10%-15%, when we start getting above 60% in most municipalities
then again we start getting a little too much, but I think if we do it in
such a way that is gradual, I certainly wouldn't be adverse to have another
5% in equities, I think probably by the end of the month, as a matter of
fact I'm changing the asset allocation right now, to go to that 55% which is
only another 2% in equities which isn't going to matter a whole lot in the
long term, I certainly wouldn't be adverse to giving our economic outlook
adding a little more to equities at this point. That is something that the
Trustees will have to come to some decision on if a decision needs to be
made. Discussion.
Berk said what happens if we have 3 years of no growth but we continue with
this particular scenario at what point will you step in and say this isn't
right, where is the cut off point and decide to make same decision. Robert
stated that if we start looking like 1972-73 again, our philosophy is we
want to be active in our management, we want to be involved in the Market,
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cash; in the past the belief is that if you are not in the Market you have
not only the possibility of loosing money - you also have the possibility of
not making any money. Discussion.
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Board of Trustees Meeting
Winter Springs Pension Plan
July 28, 1994
Page 5
Robert said if we do see a continual trend, it is our duty to say this is
where we are at, and not only will we do it from an asset allocation stand
point but we also do that from within the funds itself, so you have a dual
cash reserve type situation, so it is certainly possible; at this point we
don't think we will have and 1987 or a 1972-73, but that is certainly the
role that we would take. We would be pro-active rather than re-active.
Hoffmann asked if they would advise the Trustees through the City Manager in
advance of our having a quarterly meeting because that is too far. Robert
stated yes, to give you some idea what we do like what we did in February
when we had the first Market decline, we sent out a letter to all of our
clients and basically said this is where we think things are at and we are
going to continue to buy on the way down, we think it is temporary and so
again we try and be pro-active, so we don't have to wait, that is part of
being an investment manager to be pro-active.
Berman said on the Bond Market, the Bond Market has been going down at the
same time the yield goes up so from our standpoint would it make more sense
to hold on to whatever percentage of Bonds you have because your yield is
going up so actually the value of your Bonds is lower but if you hold onto
it you are not loosing anything and in the mean time the yield is going up.
Robert said that he would agree with that except that we have to Market
every month when we value them so even though on paper you are going to show
a loss you are getting good yield and good income, I think one of the
reasons why I would say to shift a little bit here or there, the component
for the most part is going to be some trading games in price appreciation.
The key is what we are hopefully trying to do is put it in an asset that is
going to perform better than that so you no only recoup the loss but make
out better in the long run.
Fricke asked if they are buying premium Bonds or discount Bonds? Robert
stated that what we do is we are very short term oriented, very trading
oriented, so we are looking at where if falls on the yield curve, depending
on our strategy. We are buying some premiums and some at discounts but
where it fits on the yield curve what are richer what are a little bit
more cheaper on an evaluation basis; one of things that we look at is the
over all structure of the portfolio rather than micro managing the
portfolio.
Fricke asked what percentage of the Bonds would you estimate that the
portfolio would hold to maturity. Robert said that is a hard
~. question because we do trade pretty well and I'm going to say that in a year
our Stock Fund is any where from 100%-250% and in Bonds it is a little more
than that - 500% Discussion.
There was discussion on changing the mix.
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Board of Trustees Meeting
Winter Springs Pension plan
July 28, 1994
Page 6
Fricke moved to give Sun Bank the latitude to
allocation up to 60% Stocks and 40% Bonds. Seconded
aye. Motion carried.
change the investment
by Bennan. Vote: All
Hoffmann asked about the description of the plan for the employees and a
breakdown of the Administrative expenses. Robert said the mail-outs that
give the employees information on the funds that are in the plan and guides
to retirement have been sent out yesterday (07-27-94).
Hoffmann said he would like to remind the City Manager that the Finance
Director to be sure that the Administration expenses is taken out of the
Fund and the Administration fees is taken out of the General Fund.
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Hoffmann asked of there were any other questions for Robert and thanked him
for coming. Robert said that if there are any major changes he will
certainly let the Trustees know.
Hoffmann mentioned the two letters that were made up from the last meeting
which the City Attorney reviewed.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said that the one question we had and we are waiting
for a Tax Attorney to sign off on everything before we give it to Ms. Garcia
for final approval. When you look at the summary plan that the Employee
Relations Coordinator gives to employees, there are summary pages that are
very specific and descriptive that if the employees take the time to read,
does tell them everything and one concern we had was if you start generating
other letters, but it is really covered in the packet given to the
employees. What concerns me is if you send these letters you can't avoid
giving the plan summary along with it again, or people will look at your
letter and never truly read the plan itself. Discussion.
Kruppenbacher mentioned to the City Manager that maybe part of the new
employee orientation could be to have Ms. Garcia go through the Pension Plan
and make them sign off on a packet. I think you run the risk of confusion
to the employees if you give them the letter and then when the time comes
give them the packet concerning the pension plan. Discussion.
Kruppenbacher said the letters are fine if you want to give the employees a
light condensed overview of things to think about with the pension plan, the
one revision I would make is if we do give the employees the letter then
attach the document (pension plan) and urge them to read the issues in
~ detail and not rely on the letter. Kruppenbacher said he only
recommendation would be if you want to issue the letters, hold off and let
the City Manager issue them as part of the whole process so the employees
are getting it when they go through the orientation.
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Board of Trustees Meeting
Winter Springs Pension plan
Ju 1 y 28, 1994
Page 7
Kruppenbacher asked that the City Manager mail a confirmed signed copy to
Ms. Garcia regarding the forfeitures.
There was discussion regarding the plan with the Trustees and Commissioner
Ferring.
It was determined that Attorney Lang would draft a letter stating the
Trustees concerns regarding the amount of turnover in the Bond Account.
Hoffmann asked the City Manager to remind the Finance Director the Board of
Trustees met in March and didn't receive the expense amount for that month.
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Hoffmann also asked that the Trustees receive a copy of the booklet that the
employees received for their review.
The meeting was adjourned at 7:40 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Margo Hopkins,
Deputy City Clerk
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