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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1982 06 02 Minutes MINUTES OF COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY JUNE 2, 1982 The regular meeting of the Council of Local Governments in Seminole County was held on Wednesday, June 2, 1982, in the Seminole County Courthouse, Sanford, Florida. 1. CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 7:40 p.m. by Chairman June Lorman MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Owen Sheppard, Casselberry Mayor Walter Sorenson, Lake Mary Mayor June Lorman, Longwood Mayor Robert Whittier, Oviedo Commissioner Edwin Keith, Sanford Commissioner Sandra Glenn, Seminole County Deputy Mayor John Torcaso, Winter Springs OTHERS PRESENT: City Administrator, David Chacey, City of Longwood City Mgr., Jeff Etchberger, City of ATtamonte Springs City Manager, Pete Knowles, City of Sanford City Clerk, Don Terry, City of Longwood Donna Estes, Sanford Herald Geri Throne, Sentinel Star Pat Southward, League of Women Voters 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Motion duly made, seconded and passed to approve the minutes of May 5, 1982. Motion carried unanimously. 3. TREASURER'S REPORT Mayor Lorman asked for the Treasurer's Report. No one was present to give the report. Therefore, it was agreed by all to have the Secretary contact Don Terry for same and enter in the minutes. City Clerk, Don Terry of Longwood, confirmed by telephone on June 29th, that there is $75.38 in the checking account and $625.62 in the Savings Account. Pg. 2 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. Mayor Lorman noted that all seven cities were represented. She then asked if Jeff Etchberger was representing Altamonte Springs and invited him to join the other CALNO members at the Roundtable discussion. Commissioner Glenn commended Jeff for the job done at the Public Hearing on Little Wekiva. OPEN FORUM Commissioner Glenn advised she had written to Mayor Lorman requesting a specific Agenda Item, "Rezoning". Sandra added, she is more concerned about Rezoning, personally, than she is about Annexation. She invited Herb Hardin of Seminole County Land Management to be at the meeting tonight. What Commissioner Glenn sees as happening with Rezoning, and then would like to mention Annexation to a point, is the fact that we have gotten to the place where many of our Municipal- ities are joining up together - backing up to each other. The unincorporated area is always backing up to a city. Commissioner Glenn continued by saying, what she hears as an elected official for the County is, the Public doesn't understand why if you live in a certain area and are within 300' of a Rezoning, you get a notice; but, if you're in another area, you have to read about it in the newspaper, or you see the signs, or whatever. In thinking about this, she thought it would be good to just look at the same questions regarding Rezonings, (as outlined on the charts she distributed), and requested staff to go ahead and enter Seminole County's answers. Having been on the City Commis- sion, Sandra shared that she is aware that some of the advertisements are different by City Charters than what the County is by State Law, as far as the County is concerned. Commissioner Glenn stated she would go through the chart and as a point of discussion, make a master copy type thing, with each of us writing down what the entities are and maybe get some discussion on how you all feel. Her only concern, is she wants it to be fair to everyone. If Altamonte is rezoning something next to Casselberry, let the residents of Casselberry be aware of what the Rezoning item is. If the County is rezoning something, even though it is within a Municipality, don't let the City Limits affect it. Let's try to get the whole neighborhood involved in what is going on. Sandra shared that she had found the fear of the unknown, to be the greatest fear that the public has. After they realize what a project is, and she stated she had worked with almost all of the cities on these types of things; after Pg. 3 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. they realize what the project is going to be, what the zoning entails; then it becomes a point of they want to know what the buffers are going to be; how their property is going to be affected or protected. Commissioner Glenn felt that CALNO is the place in her opinion, that they should talk about those kinds of things, rather than reading about them in the news- paper. Mayor Owen Sheppard of Casselberry spoke to the issue of noti- fying the residents in the area that are being Annexed, that it would be notifying residents of three jurisdictions. For instance, if there is County property between ourselves, Cassel- berry, and Winter Springs, we would be notifying those in Cassl- berry that abut the property; the property itself which is in the County; and also Winter Springs, because that abuts it on the other side. Commissioner Glenn replied, that is the reason she made up the chart, because she wanted to know if everybody does that, or do they only notify the people in your unincorporated area; or do you notify anyone by special mailing - do you just use the legal advertisement? Commissioner Glenn pointed to the first item, Hearings. Her question there is, prior to the time a Rezoning is done, what Boards in your City hear the question of Rezoning? Seminole County has one hearing before Planning & Zoning, and one hearing before the Board of County Commissioners. She then asked what Altamonte does? Discussion ensued regarding Legal Ad for Rezonings for Incor- porated and Unincorporated areas. 4. ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION OF ANNEXATION PROCESS Mayor Lorman asked Pete Knowles if he would like to talk about Annexation at this time. Pete Knowles stated that the material he passed out, covers a purposed 1980 Senate Bill having to do with the mandatory Annexation of Enclaves. The bill was employed for a couple of reasons; it necessitated a Senate study, and each of you has received a copy of this study which is by the Staff of the Senate Economic, Community, and Consumer Affairs Committee. They did a rather good study; it was pretty well replied to and return was about 78%, which is good for a survey. Copy of the Survey Questionnaire is attached at the back of their report and it is important because the first page of the appendix, under Section B, gives the definition that the State is looking at, of the word "Enclave". Due to political activ- ities, Senate Bill 989 did not come back to life this last year. We probably will have to wait until after the elections before it will come back to life. Some of the problems are addressed in this report. Florida Statutes did not define an Enclave, and that is why the Senate Committee definition was Pg. 4 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. extremely enlightening. Some of the cities have been having difficulty with the County regarding Annexation. Too many cities annex property for the sake of being big, and there is nothing to being big; quality is much better than bigness and if you cannot service it, then you should not have it. This is outlined on the Florida Statute, Chapter 171. If you want to do any Annexing, you must come up with the plans and a timetable for City Services, etc., and if you can't do it, then Circuit Court can set the Annexation aside. The part most used in Florida right now is not that section, but rather the voluntary annexations where you take it piecemeal by voluntary Annexation. When 100% of the people who are owners petition, not the majority of 100%, this seems to help construct enclaves. The City of Sanford has 15 of these enclaves, and when they pass the final reading of an Ordinance at the next City Commission meeting, it will be the first enclave that has been completely eliminated in the City of Sanford in over 30 years. Constructing an enclave within city limits is an error. Not only that, it is bad for the people you are encircling. while you are taking a convenient and easy way to get around - and this is how they develop. Three-quarter of the enclaves are constructed by the people doing the Annexing, and then we ask the State Legislature - and say, you ought to have a law doing away with enclaves. If you are careful not to construct them, you won't need to go to Legislature saying you now need a law doing away with enclaves. The County finds it difficult to service them. It will be particularly difficult if the County gets into Utility busi- ness. When the people in the enclaves demand the same and equal services that anybody else in the unincorporated areas and you have a mile to mile and a half enclave inside some Municipal boundary - it needs to be approached cooperatively. Mayor Sheppard replied, we do not create those enclaves, in most cases the Developer or Landowner have approached the City. It is not the City looking for it. Mr. Knowles stated that the Developer cannot bring it in with- out the Municipality's vote to accomplish it. We have quite a few enclaves in Seminole County who do not get equal services. Commissioner Glenn agreed with all Mr. Knowles said, but advised traditionally Counties had not given services in years past, that the Municipalities have. That is changing, whether good or bad, in demand of urban sprawl that we are in. It is not just utilities, but fire and garbage and all the other types of things. Having been with the City and County, Commissioner Glenn, shared what happens at unincorporated meetings with the County, and particularly since we have come up with this package of "After the Facts Annexation Requests", for the waiver of the two year period. That is why she wanted to know what the City Pg. 5 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. Law is, particularly on notification, because people are say- ing, "we were not notified at the time the Annexation occurred", but if we as elected officials can say, these are the laws that apply to everyone - the system is equal to all, whether it is unincorporated or not. The next question we get - what is the actual difference in requirements? People say they go into a Municipality because the restrictions are less. It is time we educated the Public with the Land Management Legislation we all have under the Comprehensive Land Plan, and with the procedures that have been set up by the State; in my opinion there is not that much difference. Mayor Sheppard felt that, as far as it being unfair to the enclave, because of same not being serviced properly, he sees only two areas; normally with mutual aid, you have the fire protection and utilities or water in Certificated Areas, the two areas would be police and taxation. Pete Knowles disagreed, saying normally you do not respond except in those areas where the Municipality and the County has a "first out" mutual aid agreement; it is an intergovern- mental service function, a contract. The second thing we should consider is the question of Zoning after the fact. This has been the problem for Sanford and Seminole County. Our Land Use Plan went beyond the City Limits and laid out land use. The people who come to the City of Sanford have a problem, because the County did not Rezone their property, even though the Land Use may have designated it in the future for Medium Residential. It was agricultural, so it was left that way, and when I asked, if your Land Use calls for Medium Residential, why is this still zoned agriculture? The answer, well it's easier just to leave it and only Rezone it when the people ask for it. This creates a terrific burden. Many of these people then say, it is easier for me to annex to the City of Sanford. The Land Use Plan fought the Zoning which is the legal tool following the Land Use Plan and this is where the conflict comes in on our fringe areas. The County has a legal tool for Zoning, but they never made it applicable and only do it piecemeal as it comes in. We have one coming before the County Commission now that is Medium Class Residen- tial area, but is zoned agriculture and the County won't con- sider it, so these people have to wait for two years. Mr. Knowles continued, it should have been Rezoned to accompany the adoption of the Comprehensive Land Use Plan. This is what causes a Developer problems. Contrary to what people tell you as to why they go in, is the fact that 90% of the Developers that ask for Annexation, want either water or an opportunity to get their development under way in less than 90 days of bureaucratic processing. No one seems to have the desire to match Zoning with Land Use Plans. Pg. 6 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. Herb Hardin discussed the Land Use Plan and added that there are several zonings that may be in conflict. There may be some developed commercial in the middle of an area that is supposed to be residential. The Board listed all of those conflicts on Zonings. If the owners of the property wished to contest after seeing it advertised, and did not want it zoned, they would leave it as was. The Land Use Plan is a long range plan; it would be premature to Zone everything according to the Plan. Your plan is the first step, the second step is Rezoning, which you should have zoned if the services are there - that is the safeguard. Pete Knowles reflected on the fact that we are sitting here wrestling with an Annexation problem - what Sandra and I are talking about is a need for people to work together on a problem and a function and a service where you can do so, still as County Government and as Municipal Government. You can do so cooperatively so it is more cost effective and better for the people. John Torcaso, using winter Springs as an example, asked where you begin? You have a natural dividing line of 17-92, come down to Talmo road and you are in Longwood, you go to Lake Hodge on the other side of the street and you are in Casselberry; go past Lake Hodge and you are in the County; go past that little section and you are in the City of Winter Springs, etc. Commissioner Glenn noted, that is a prime example of what we are all faced with; the city police have to patrol, the County is getting a benefit because the police cars drive by the unincorporated areas. Most of the Annexation suits that the courts have settled have been that point that if a person is not willing to come in, they have not pushed that issue and Wethers field in Altamonte has always been the hold- up. The State Law does not speak, as to what should be done to waiver the two year requirement. We had done it by just going to the District Commissioner and if the District Commissioner didn't have a problem with what was being Rezoned, then it was all right. We finally wrote some guidelines. Then we had some Commissioners that were out of that District that violently opposed that particular type Zoning, so we tried to come up with some kind of form; because we all need a common point to tell the Public what the procedure is, and what is going to happen. It is really cheaper dollar wise for some- one to go to the Municipality, do the Annexation, and come before the County and have it Rezoned, and that is not right ei ther . Pg. 7 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. Jeff Etchberger disagreed with Commissioner Glenn, because when Altamonte Springs came up with the joint process, and I think Altamonte Springs is the only City in the County that has one. We are collecting partial fees for the County to cover that portion of the process which we go through on yours. Jeff did not remember how much of Seminole County's total fee his city is giving. Herb Hardin replied, two-thirds of the Zoning, but the savings, if there is an amendment required, we don't charge anything because they are not amending the plan. That is where the big savings is. Pete Knowles spoke to approaching the problem from two diff- erent ways; because the majority of people coming to the Municipality of Sanford, requesting Annexation is of unde- veloped land - there are no residences. In all of the cases for Rezoning that we've had, they have all been undeveloped. Sandra Glenn advised, that the County is charged with listening and protecting, not only unincorporated, but in- corporated residences too. If it is an enclave that you are Annexing into the City, the only responsible point that somewhere along the way, I should have input from the surround- ing property owners if I'm going to make a decision regarding Rezoning. Pete Knowles used the example of the surrounding property owners asking to be Annexed, being Annexed, then asking for a change of Zoning - it was not an enclave. He suggested turning to the Land Use Plan which already calls for it to be Medium Residential, yet right now say it is Agricultural, and requested Medium Residential, yet it was turned down. Commissioner Glenn stated that our Land Use Plan is five years old. We are into the process of updating it this year. Our Plan has been amended at least eighty times. Pete Knowles stated we get caught up in laws, and we aren't talking about what the ultimate goal is, and that is to put the land to the best use it is suited for. We are lost in a mass of bureaucratic technicalities. It would be simple for adjoining, abutting units to sit down and come to some kind of concurrence on Land Use - be it 300' or 1/2 mile from a boundary line. Just say, as long as we stick to this Comp Plan and if someone wants to have a change, have the Govern- mental units settle it between them to avoid putting the public through the hassle and expense of Public Hearing after Public Hearing. Pg. 8 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. Commissioner Glenn questioned whose Comp Plan would be used. Pete Knowles suggested concurrence by everyone sitting down together and agreeing to what the County, Municipalities, etc. designate. Jeff Etchberger noted, if nothing else, you have given prop- erty owners where there is a dispute, first hand notice that before you ever start to process you may as well know that the County is going to object. Also, they will be forewarned if they want Annexation it may be a two year wait before they can do anything. What we hope to do through the Joint Land Plan Agency, is not only define to a certain area outside the City our proposed land use, but identify, proposed logical extension of City boundaries to the maximum and propose to our City Commission that they not consider anyone outside those boundaries for Annexation Mayor Whittier of Oviedo discussed the case of a person who came to their City Hall and admitted he cannot get anywhere with the County because of the five acre restriction, so he wants to come into the City, keep the same Zoning (Agri- cultural), wants to annex, wants to pay for the cost of a special election to give the property owenrs in the City a chance to vote yes or no. He is going to develop 2 or 2-1/2 acres and put twenty-five homes on the 65 acre tract; at the same time asking the City to take over 9,200 feet of dirt roads. We asked the County's help in doing that, to see what they would say. He is willing to keep the same Zoning class- ification, because under our Agricultural Zoning he can go in there and put his own Subdivision and we have no control over it in any way. He is allowed to apply for Annexation and if Council goes along with it fine. Mr. Etchberger stated the above example was the typical case of going into a Municipality where there are less stringent development policies. Our Council put through an emergency Ordinance to hold him until we could get the County Land Development Code adopted, Mayor Whittier added. Mayor Lorman recognized Dave Chacey who felt that CALNO had gotten into individual cases. Mr. Knowles advised sending the matrix around to all the Municipalities from CALNO to get it focused the way you want it, to allow all the people a chance to come in on every Annexation within 300 ft., or 500 ft. in the County, coordin- ate it and have a uniform procedure. Mayor Sheppard thought the Comprehensive Land Plan was only a general Plan having nothing to do with density - it is either industrial, commercial, residential or agricultural. Pg. 9 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. It was noted that Seminole County does have density specifi- cations. Jeff Etchberger outlined a plan where all should come in and attempt through a joint Land Planning Agency Resolution and compare Comprehensive Land Use Planning within a certain area outside of the City; try to get an agreement upon that with the County, to be in ultimate agreement that will evolve to say: if your Comp Plan and our Comp Plan and our Land Planning Agencies are in agreement - if those people approach the City for Annexation - then there should be no question of a two year delay. We should identify where problems have to be negotiated and streamline the process as much as possi- ble as to how we get an official action by the County on an Annexation request. We have a joint form in Altamonte, we even collect the fees and submit their portion on Annexation to the County. We are not going to talk consolidation in Seminole County any time in the near future, and we shouldn't. Commissioner Glenn observed that because of dollars, more consolidation of services would be seen. She also advised that you may have some County Commissioners who don't want to lose anything because they see a loss of power, and a loss of tax base. Mr. Etchberger felt, after discussion of lost tax base, etc., we must approach the County and say, we are ready now, we want to come to an agreement and define these kinds of things. If nothing else, when we don't come to agreement, at least we have told the property owner - you may as well anticipate that you will have a two year wait, but even in that we have done them a service. Sandra Glenn further commented, the input we get from the unincorporated residents, as well as the incorporated residents at our public hearings, weigh on the decision. Pete Knowles agreed, the tax property would become less and less important - where services will be more important. The biggest problem for the County is the fact that as the area grows, we become responsible for more of the roads, whether they are in unincorporated or incorporated areas was observed by Sandra, to be one of the most frustrating things to the County. To have to maintain the road within the Municipality and deal with the type of development that is going in - we have worked it out with most of them where you are requiring basically the same kind of tapers and decel lanes and traffic signal, as well as right-of-way commitments at the time of rezoning that we are requesting. The Joint Land Planning Agency you mentioned - do you think that is a good area to begin? Pg. 10 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. It should be a relief to the County that someone else is taking over the responsibility of a higher level of service than what they are getting, Pete Knowles commented. People forget you can never separate authority from responsibility on any job. The franchise fee impact on the unincorporated area was discussed. Pete Knowles questioned what was meant by Administrative Zoning? The key is, Jeff advised, who initiates the request or action for Rezoning - whether it is Administrative Staff or whether it is by petition of property owner that is the difference. Mayor Lorman requested the Annexation discussion be summed up. She asked if the Cities would like the last word on what was being discussed. Mayor Torcaso would like to see all the City Planners get to- gether with the County Planner and go over the Comp Plan and see if the little enclaves that are located right in the residential area of the City could be annexed. There is no procedure for that in the State Legislature unless the person who owns the property requests to be annexed, Sandra Glenn advised. Pete Knowles suggested CALNO advise all eight governmental agencies to have a representative, and also suggested it be an Administrative person employed by that Government Agency to sit down and arrive at a joint area of coordination of Zoning in the fringe areas of all these Governmental Agencies. Jeff Etchberger pointed out, since they are going through revisions, they can take the spearhead by asking and doing that coordination as you go through your Revision next year. The problems can be resolved before you get to the Public Hearing. Sandra cautioned, because the only way the County knows Annexations are taking place in the Cities, is if our Staff reads a legal notice. We do not get a letter from any Munic- ipality saying they are Annexing property from the unincor- porated areas, except Altamonte Springs. Probably, the notice goes to the property appraiser, Pete advised. The notice has to be certified in that office. In reply to Mayor Lorman's request for direction, Jeff Pg. 11 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONT'D. Etchberger proposed that we all agree that within a week to send a completed copy of the Matrix to Don Terry of Longwood so that he can include it with the minutes. In the next day or two fill out the Rezoning Questionnaire and you will receive a copy of the completed chart with the minutes. The decision was unanimous by all members to have the Rezon- ing Form completed, sent to Don Terry - Longwood City Clerk, and he will forward same to all CALNO Members. OPEN FORUM RESUHED Commissioner Glenn requested that each member take Dave Chacey's suggestion back to their Boards and request reinsti- tution of the Technical Coordinating Committee. Walt Sorenson of Lake Mary, moved that each of us as an entity appoint a member, be that Staff or elected Official, to a group/body to review overlap of Comprehensive Plans along the general lines of trying to corne to some agreement in those areas, within our boundaries and without our boundaries, that we share with another entity. Mayor Sheppard seconded Mayor Sorenson's above motion - all were in favor, none opposed. Mayor Sorenson clarified the discussion by advising we ask the Committee to review the overlapping areas with an eye to trying to get them into agreement. It would help a great deal with the revision of the Comp Plan, he commented. 5. REPORTS FROM MEMBERS Mayor Lorman asked if any of the cities had anything they would like to talk about or bring to the Board? Jeff Etchberger stated the City of Altamonte Springs is going out for bids on water conservation packages. We structured our bids in such a manner that they will be in quantities of a thousand of base kits, and then the shower head, faucet in- serts and tanks separately, in a public education package. We have structured it this way so that if the Commission or some of the others might be considering same, we will have those in in about thirty days. Anyone could enter in under joint Purchasing under CALNO if they wish. Most likely we will allow them to be billed on the water bill in Altamonte. We will be happy to share our bids with you. Mayor Torcaso, Winter Springs, advised that they had just dissolved a Board that had met for eight weeks on revising permitted uses in C-l & C-2 Zoning. Winter Springs is going to have a Public Hearing, etc. It will probably corne up before the Commission some time next month. There is a great deal that will have to go to special exception, etc., Pg. 12 COUNCIL OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN SEMINOLE COUNTY - CONTID. that we have incorporated in C-l or C-2 in hopes of eliminat- ing some of those meetings. Sandra Glenn wished to cover a matter that affects everybody. The Legislature this year abolished Health Systems Agencies and in their place created Local Health Planning Organiza- tions, which is a Planning Body only. It may, or may not, have Public Hearings. It may give input as far as requiring when new hospitals are requested. They are based on the same District as HRS. Those are the boundaries. We are in the same District with anybody that is in our HRS District. The guidelines are corning out June 15th as to how many people each County is allowed to have on this Board. It is done by population, etc. The only person that has a voice to the State is the Chairman of the Local Planning Agency. The major differences that the Cerfificate of Need process, which has played a major role within the HSA, is now being transferred to the State. They make the final decision, not the local agencies. Local Health Agency Plans becomes a document against which the State mayor may not review those certificates. Of particular importance to the County, is the fact that each member of the new Health Planning Agency will be appointed by the County Commissioners within the HRS District. Mayor Lorman asked when the foregoing would take place. San- dra Glenn was not sure at this time, but thought it would be sometime in October. June Lorman announced that Longwood is getting their hospital, and that it will probably be under construction in three months. As far as the psychiatric hospital, that is on hold. This is an acute, surgical, medical hospital having 100 beds, to be expanded later on. Mayor Lorman advised that the next meeting which had been sched- uled to be in Winter Springs, on July 7th would not be held at that time, due to CALNO taking a leave of absence during July and August. The next CALNO meeting is scheduled for September 1st, in Winter Springs. Irc