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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 12 10 Consent C Approval of December 3, 2001 City Commission Special Meeting Minutes COMMISSION AGENDA ITEM C Consent X Informational Public Hearings Regular December 10. 2001 Regular Meeting Mgr. / Dept. Authorization CONSENT C. Office Of The City Clerk Approval Of The December 3,2001 City Commission Special Meeting Minutes. '/<" ,.,'\":-..-' :, . . CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING DECEMBER 3, 2001 I. CALL TO ORDER The Special Meeting of Monday, December 3, 2001 of the City Commission was called to order by Deputy Mayor David W. McLeod, at approximately 6:31 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). ROLL CALL: Mayor Paul P. Partyka, absent Deputy Mayor David W. McLeod, present Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present Commissioner Michael S. Blake, present Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr., present Commissioner Cindy Gennell, present City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present A moment of silence was followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. II. CONSENT CONSENT A. Finance Department And General Services Department Requests That The Commission Approve/Adopt An Amendment To The City Of Winter Springs Personnel Manual That Would Allow The Payout Of Accumulated Leave Balances In An Amount Not To Exceed 30 Days To Serve As An Initial Transition Period For Those Employees Called To Active Duty In The Military. Manager McLemore and Mr. Gene DeMarie, General Services Department Director addressed the Commission on this issue. Discussion. "I WILL MOVE TO APPROVE" ADD-ON CONSENT AGENDA ITEM 'A.' MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION. .. ,'\' ~ -.- ...-...---.---- ..'- . . _1" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 2 OF 41 VOTE: COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE MOTION CARRIED. III. REGULAR (ITEMS CONTINUED FROM THE NOVEMBER 26, 2001 REGULAR MEETING.) REGULAR B. Office Of Commissioner Cindy Gennell Requests That The City Commission Reflect On Whether They Wish To Consider A Policy Limiting Board Appointments. Commissioner Cindy Gennell introduced this Agenda Item. Commissioner Robert S. Miller asked, "Has anyone looked at what other cities do in Florida?" Attorney Garganese said, "Based on my experience in representing other cities, it varies across the board. It is purely a policy decision of the Commission." Attorney Garganese added, "There is just one caveat. A person can only serve on one quasi-judicial Board at a time, they cannot serve on two (2) simultaneously. The can sit on one Advisory Board and a quasi-judicial Board, but not two (2) quasi-judicial Boards. For example, in Winter Springs, you only have one quasi-judicial Board - lower board, that's the Code Enforcement Board." Discussion. Commissioner Miller stated, "1 would support one person being able to serve on not more than two (2) Boards, for the time being, as policy." Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr. remarked that "Ifit is okay with the Commission and they want to put one person on each or all of the Boards that we have here, 1 don't have any problem with it, but I think that the rest of the citizens should be given an opportunity to participate also." "I MOVE THAT WE SET A COMMISSION POLICY THAT RESTRICTS RESIDENTS TO SERVING ON ONE NORMAL ADVISORY BOARD FOR THE CITY, AND BY THAT I MEAN WE HAVE A COUPLE OF BOARDS THAT ARE JUST TEMPORARY BOARDS." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. COMMISSIONER GENNELL ADDED, "I MOVE THAT WE ESTABLISH A COMMISSION POLICY' TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF BOARDS THAT ANY CITIZEN CAN SERVE ON - ADVISORY BOARD WITH THE CITY, TO ONE BOARD." .\: 1 CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 3 OF 4\ MANAGER McLEMORE ASKED, "ONE STANDING BOARD?" COMMISSIONER GENNELL AGREED AND STATED, "ONE STANDING BOARD." Commissioner Miller stated, "Point of Clarification" and asked, "They serve on one Advisory Board and one quasi-judicial, but not two (2) quasi-judicial Boards? " COMMISSIONER GENNELL SAID, "THIS IS JUST ONE BOARD - ANY KIND." COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ STATED, "THIS WILL BE A MOTION TO - SCHEDULE A PROCESS FOR THE FUTURE, NOT WITHSTANDING WHAT IS IN PLACE NOW? WHATEVER IS IN PLACE NOW, REMAINS THE SAME UNTIL THE FUTURE?" SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER GENNELL ADDED, "WHAT I AM ASKING IS THAT WE CONTINUE WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING, ONLY ADOPT A POLICY TO CONTINUE DOING WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ' CLARIFICATION TO YOU WAS - ON HIS SECOND, WAS AT THE PRESENT - THE SITUATION THAT WE HAVE NOW, THAT PERSON WOULD BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO SERVE ON BOTH BOARDS, AT PRESENT, HOWEVER, IN THE FUTURE, NO ONE ELSE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT." COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ STATED, "IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE ALLOW THIS TO REMAIN THE WAY IT IS NOW, AND THE NEW RESOLUTION, ORDINANCE - POLICY TAKES_PLACE, JANUARY 1ST - WELL THAT YOU DON'T MAKE IT RETROACTIVE, AND THE ONE SPECIFIC PERSON YOU MENTIONED, WHEN THEIR REAPPOINTMENT COMES UP, WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE REAPPOINTED TO A SECOND BOARD." COMMISSIONER GENNELL AGREED AND STATED, "THAT'S REASONABLE. THAT IS THE INTENT OF MY MOTION." COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ REAFFIRMED HIS SECOND. COMMISSIONER MICHAEL S. BLAKE ASKED THAT COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ RESTATE HIS COMMENTS, TO WHICH COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ STATED, "I WOULD LIKE THIS MOTION TO COVER ANYONE WHO IS ON A BOARD NOW, WHETHER IT IS ON ONE OR TWO (2) BOARDS, IT REMAINS THE SAME. THIS ORDINANCE, OR THIS POLICY, OR THIS RESOLUTION WOULD TAKE PLACE AND BECOME EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1ST, WELL IT WILL BE EFFECTIVE HENCEFORTH FROM JANUARY 1 ST, 2002, BUT IT WILL NOT BE RETROACTIVE, AND ANYONE IN A POSITION SUCH AS THE ONE THAT OCCURS RIGHT NOW, WHO IS .. ~. _.~ - - ~~ . -- - - .. -- . .' '..: CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3. 2001 PAGE 4 OF 41 ON TWO (2) BOARDS, WILL REMAIN THERE UNTIL THE EXPIRATION OF THE TERM OF ONE OF THOSE POSITIONS, AT WHICH TIME THAT PERSON WILL NOT BE REAPPOINTED TO A SECOND POSITION ON A SECOND BOARD." COMMISSIONER BLAKE STATED, "IN OTHER WORDS, NOBODY CAN SERVE ON TWO (2) BOARDS, HOWEVER, YOU CAN BE GRANDFATHERED, AND IT DOESN'T INCLUDE AD HOC BOARDS, AND IT TAKES EFFECT JANUARY 1ST, 2002." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "NOT NECESSARILY, JANUARY 1ST, WHENEVER THE ORDINANCE WOULD BECOMES EFFECTIVE. WE WOULD FIRST HAVE TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE; AND WE WOULD HAVE TO MOVE ON THE ORDINANCE SO YOU COULDN'T DO IT UNTIL AFTER THAT ORDINANCE WAS IN PLACE." ATTORNEY GARGANESE SAID, "ALTHOUGH YOU CAN ESTABLISH THIS LIMITATION BY RESOLUTION, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO IT BY ORDINANCE; BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, YOU RECENTLY EST ABLISHED A BOARD AND COMMITTEE ORDINANCE WHICH ESTABLISHES UNIFORM GUIDELINES. I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO PUT SUCH A LIMITATION." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "PRESENTLY THE MOTION IS IN PLACE HERE TO GO AHEAD AND ALLOW ANY PERSON - SITTING ON MORE THAN ONE BOARD, TO REMAIN ON THAT BOARD - HOWEVER IN THE FUTURE, WE WOULD LIMIT OUR PERMANENT BOARDS TO THOSE PEOPLE AS A SINGLE BOARD, BUT THEY COULD SERVE ON AN AD-HOC BOARD, AT THE SAME TIME." VOTE: COMMISSIONER MILLER: NAY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NAY COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. REGULAR C. General Services Department Requests That The City Commission Decide On The Installation Of A "Queuing" System To Show The Mayor In Which Order Individual Commissioners Pressed Their "Request To Speak" Buttons, And If Approved, To Authorize A Supplemental Appropriation For That Purchase And Installation. i ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGE 5 OF 41 Mr. DeMarie addressed the Commission. In discussing whether the suggested system might be a viable choice, Deputy Mayor McLeod asked about the proposed installation and inquired, "Would that be a thirty (30), sixty (60), or ninety (90) day process?" Mr. DeMarie explained, "Probably ninety (90) days." Deputy Mayor McLeod asked the City Clerk to read a Memorandum with comments from Mayor Paul P. Partyka to the Commission regarding this Agenda Item. As requested, City Clerk Andrea Lorenzo-Luaces read a Memorandum into the record. In discussing the suggested pricing of this proposed queuing system, Commissioner Blake suggested, "Four thousand dollars in a tight budget year is a lot of money. I think we should tough it out another year or two (2); see what happens after that, and maybe look at it again." Manager McLemore commented, "If you decide to go forward, I would request that you approve a supplemental appropriation for that amount." Commissioner Gennell stated, "I did not anticipate that it should cost that much money to tell you the truth, and I don't support that much money, but I do think there has got to be somebody around that can do it for less, I really honestly do; and if we don't make a Motion here tonight to go forward with this - then I would desire to direct Staff to keep looking for someone more reasonable, to accomplish our goal." Commissioner Miller suggested that a way to help might be, "When each of us gets done speaking, if the Mayor doesn't punch your light off, put it off yourself." COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ STATED, "I WANTED TO RECOMMEND NO ACTION ON THIS ITEM, AND LIKE COMMISSIONER GENNELL SAYS, I WOULD ADVISE STAFF TO KEEP LOOKING AROUND AND SEE WHAT THEY CAN COME UP - WITH, FOR THE FUTURE." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER GENNELL AGREED WITH COMMISSIONER MILLER'S COMMENTS AND SUGGESTED THAT THOSE ON THE DAIS SHOULD "INTERRUPT, AND SAY 'POINT OF ORDER,' MY LIGHT WAS ON." VOTE: COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE MOTION CARRIED. ~. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 6 OF 41 Regarding the microphones, Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "Could we make sure in the evening that all these mikes are turned on before we start our Meetings?" REGULAR E. Community Development Department Requests The City Commission Approve And Authorize The Mayor To Sign An Amended Interlocal Agreement With Seminole County For The Design, Construction And Maintenance Of Certain Sections Of The Cross Seminole Trail, Within The City Of Winter Springs Town Center. The revised Agenda Item was introduced by Mr. Earnest McDonald, AICP, Advance Planning Coordinator, Community Development Department and Mr. Charles Carrington, AICP, Community Development Department Director addressed the City Commission Discussion. Manager McLemore said, "Initially, the County as I recall was going to make us fully responsible for paving the unpaved trail section - they now have changed, and they are going to assume that obligation. I think that is a significant change." Commissioner Blake asked Mr. Carrington, "When will they be breaking ground?" Mr. Carrington replied, "I would have to contact the County and get that date for you." Commissioner Blake stated, "That would be interesting to know, for me..." Mr. Carrington then stated, "...I can get you an update on that, Sir." Commissioner Blake added, "I would appreciate that." Tape l/Side B Discussion. Commissioner Blake then stated, "If we pass this and sign it, we need to change the signature page, Andrea. The new County Chairman is Daryl McLain." Commissioner Gennell remarked to Mr. Carrington that "You may want to double check - where you have 'Gardenia Street.' I am very sure that it is 'Gardena. ", Discussion followed on "Local Agency Program" (LAP) certification, and Deputy Mayor McLeod asked, "What would it take to be 'LAP' certified?" Deputy Mayor McLeod then stated, "I don't see in here where we have much say in what the design looks like? Mr. McDonald stated, "Under SECTION 4. DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION., there is a statement that suggests that the City shall participate in the design process for the Trail improvements. It doesn't suggest to what length the City will participate, and again, this language can be altered to the Commission's satisfaction, prior to passage." Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "I personally think that that needs to be altered." Furthermore, ~ 'y CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 7 OF 41 Deputy Mayor McLeod asked Attorney Garganese, "Does the verbiage in this guarantee that you still have that right or as much say in doing that as what the County does?" Attorney Garganese said, "Are you referring to 'Shall participate?'" Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, 'Shall participate' - does that give you the same voting power with the County's design people.? Attorney Garganese suggested, ".. .'Mutually acceptable to the County and the City' would make you equal partners with the County, rather than just - having the ability to participate." Deputy Mayor McLeod asked, "Would that not make sense to us?" Manager McLemore said, "Sure." Manager McLemore stated, "Probably within the Town Center there will be designs that will be over and beyond that which the County is usually used to and most of their trails went to rural areas and we had some issues on the way they took your drainage on the - section; and I think what the County is going to tell you - you can have anything you want, but you've got 'x' number dollars of Grants and if it costs anymore, you are going to have to come up with the balance of that. But we certainly need to have that language in there. I think it gives us the latitude to put our design there rather than the County's design and provide for the amenities that we would probably want that would not be typical County sections for Trails." "I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. DISCUSSION. DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD ASKED, "DOES THAT MOTION INCLUDE WHAT WE DISCUSSED THIS EVENING?" COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ SAID, "INCLUDING YOUR SUGGESTION." VOTE: COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE Commissioner Blake stated, "Point of Order" and inquired about Deputy Mayor McLeod voting. Discussion. Commissioner Blake asked Attorney Garganese. "Does the Deputy Mayor vote, or not?" Attorney Garganese clarified. "In a temporary absence of the Mayor, the Deputy Mayor should be voting - when he chairs the Meeting. .. DEPUTYMAYORMcLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Deputy Mayor McLeod then said to Mr. Carrington, "So, the past Item, we will have the City Attorney give you the proper language to put in that to pass it forward." Mr. Carrington stated, "Yes, sir." \' ~j' CITY OF WINTER SPRfNGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 8 OF 41 REGULAR F. Community Development Department Requests The City Commission Approve And Authorize The Mayor To Sign The Seminole County School Board Interlocal Agreement Of 200t On Behalf Of The City Commission. Mr. McDonald addressed the Commission and spoke on the differences between "The proposed agreement and the actual 'Intergovernmental Planning Agreement' that was adopted in 1997." Discussion followed on collaborative planning. Manager McLemore stated, "There is nothing in this Agreement that has any enforcement powers either way, and certainly no concurrency requirements that can be enforced upon the City or the City upon the School Board." Attorney Garganese agreed with Manager McLemore and stated, "It is a cooperation agreement and the only requirement in here regarding proposed land uses, is that and somewhere in your Comprehensive Plan you have to state where schools are an allowable use - you are required to do that by Florida Law anyway." Commissioner Blake stated, "I do have a concern about the apparent cost relief, and I see that Staff is recommending a change is SECTION 3: (2) b), that does require a payment of fees for processing large development applications. How do we define that? What is a 'large?'" Mr. McDonald responded, "That was simply presented as a discussion point because the Ordinance doesn't make a distinction between large or small development applications, due to the extensive Staff work that might be involved in the processing of a large application such as this. Staff feels that some type of compensation is appropriate above and beyond just the actual provision of funds for advertisement." Further discussion. Manager McLemore added, "This is something that we are recommending that we come back to the Commission after a discussion with the School Board and further Staff work." Manager McLemore then stated, "I would suggest that the recommendation would be to approve that subject to further Staff work on this issue, that would be brought back to you." Commissioner Blake stated, "Okay." Commissioner Blake then asked Attorney Garganese about wording in the section identified as "Data Coordination" - the wording starts with - ".. .All parties to this agreement shall continue to share data including population and school.. . and other facility siting issues including locally unwanted land uses - and the word 'Unwanted' is what I am concerned about there." Commissioner Blake asked, "Do we want to adopt an agreement that considers those uses 'Unwanted?' Perhaps 'Incompatible' would be a better word?" Attorney Garganese stated, "That's a good catch Commissioner. I would recommend that we strike that 'Unwanted' language." With discussion, Attorney Garganese added '''Incompatible' would be a better choice of words." ~ ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETfNG - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGE 9 OF 41 Discussion followed on impact fees and that the document came from the School Board. Commissioner Gennell suggested that page 6, item b), "About what the City and the County will exempt the School Board from and just review it real carefully and make sure we are not giving away anything we have to give away." Commissioner Gennell further suggested, "Since the School Board drafted it, I just think it behooves us to look at it carefully." Furthermore, in discussion with Mr. McDonald, Commissioner Gennell stated, "I am just asking you to be super careful reviewing it." "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DIRECT STAFF TO MAKE THE CORRECTIONS WE DISCUSSED, AND TO COME BACK TO US WITH THE RECOMMENDATION ON THE DEFINITION OF LARGE PLANS AND WHEN A FEE MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE; AND TO BRING BACK THE FINISHED PRODUCT FOR FINAL APPROVAL ONCE IT GOES THROUGH THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL PROCESS -I'LL CALL IT, WITH THE OTHER CITIES, COUNTY, AND SCHOOL BOARD." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION. VOTE: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. REGULAR G. Community Development Department Requests That The Commission Approve The Recordation Of The Plat And Supplemental Covenants For Parkstone Unit 4. Mr. John Baker, AICP, Current Planning Coordinator Community Development Department introduced this Agenda Item and advised the City Commission that "The attached plat that you have in this packet was changed to provide 'Walnut Creek Cove' - in the previous plat that you had, it had 'Devon Creek Road' as well as here, the same name. The applicant decided to change that to avoid any possibility of misunderstanding about the addresses. Both were okay with 911, but the applicant felt this was better to serve the public safety." C>n a recent visit to this development, Commissioner Miller spoke of the numerous cars parked on the street, and that he had to "Back up twice as he was going down the street - and this is over in the new area on the western side." Mr. Carrington said, "We can have Code Enforcement check it out." ~' CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 10 OF 41 Manager McLemore stated, "I think we ought to make this plat conditional upon them replacing that tree that died out on the front." Commissioner Gennell stated, "And they gave us $28,000.00 and some for recreational use. . ." Mr. Carrington added, 28,800 - "Payment has already been made to the City; that's $300.00 a lot for the ninety-six (96) lots." Commissioner Gennell then inquired, "What does this represent for the entire subdivision? In other words, did they give us this much each time, or approximately - proportionately, the same amount each time?" Mr. Carrington responded, "I would have to go back and check the records." Commissioner Gennell then said, "I am just trying to get at how much the developer gave the City in total for all of Parkstone for recreation property - for all the units, and how much land they have actually - because they have some there with the clubhouse, and so forth that they have used." Ms. Jill Schlageter, Centex Homes, 385 Douglas Avenue. Suite 2000, Altamonte Springs, Florida: responded by saying, "I can't answer that question. I do believe we had presented the City with a check for $30,000.00 for the Unit 3 plat, but I don't recall Units 1 and 2." Commissioner Gennell further asked, "How large of an area did you devote to recreation down there in that one spot?" Ms. Schlageter replied, "I'd have to check the plat. I don't know that offhand." Tape 2/Side A Commissioner Gennell then asked, "Has all of the money that they have given us, gone toward development of practice fields in Central Winds?" Manager McLemore stated, "All those funds come back and are accounted for as monies for recreational in lieu of type fees. Whether it has been used or not, I don't know, I would have to check and see." With further discussion, Commissioner Gennell stated, "I would like to see the developers - doing as much as they can in these neighborhoods." Commissioner Blake remarked about monies going into the General Fund. Furthermore, Commissioner Blake spoke of his concern with the street named 'Seneca Meadows Road,' as it was similar to three (3) other similar street names. Brief discussion. "MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM 'G,' - WITH THE CAVEAT THAT THE CITY MANAGER PUT - ABOUT REPLACING THE TREE." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. DISCUSSION. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGEIIOF4I VOTE: COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NAY COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: NAY DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE MOTION CARRIED. .:. .:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING REGULAR (NEW ITEMS FOR THIS AGENDA) AGENDA ITEM WAS HEARD NEXT, AS DOCUMENTED. .:. .:. v. REGULAR (NEW ITEMS FOR THIS AGENDA) REGULAR A. Parks And Recreation Department Requesting The Appointment From Deputy Mayor David W. McLeod To The Central Winds Park Expansion Advisory Committee. DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD STATED, "I WOULD LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND RECOMMEND RON ZARBAUGH." MOTION BY DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. DISCUSSION. VOTE: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "Please contact Ron [Zarbaugh] and let him know that he has been appointed - and get him a form." .:..:. AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING REGULAR (ITEMS CONTINUED FROM THE NOVEMBER 26, 2001 REGULAR MEETING) AGENDA ITEM WAS HEARD NEXT, AS DOCUMENTED. .:..:. III. REGULAR (ITEMS CONTINUED FROM THE NOVEMBER 26, 2001 REGULAR MEETING) .~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGEI20F41 REGULAR H. Office Of The City Manager Presents To The Commission The Request Of The JDC Calhoun, Inc. (JDC) To Modify The Special Exception Approval Granted October 22, 2001, And Approve Design Conditions. Attorney Garganese gave a review of what has been done procedurally regarding signage. Commissioner Blake stated "Point of Order" and spoke of Attorney Garganese's comments. Commissioner Miller said, "Point of Order" and commented on monumental signage. Attorney Garganese continued and in concluding his opening statement and summary to the City Commission stated, "At this point no formal application for the sign - the aesthetics of the sign, the design - has been submitted. You are asking just for further clarification and that would require some subsequent approval by the Commission at a later date." Further, Attorney Garganese stated, "If you want to provide further clarification, then my recommendation would be that it be in writing, by agreement between the parties." Manager McLemore then reviewed with the Commission recent events and requests and recommendations for the signage for this project. Manager McLemore stated, "On November the lih, the Commission reviewed an Agenda Item that I had prepared to set out - the idea of what we call architectural significant points that allowed for signage to be integrated within a - structure that allowed for increasing or enhancing the architectural capacity of the Town Center, which signs were incidental to that, but allowed for signage; and again, to serve that purpose that they would enhance - signs would be allowed, but they would enhance the architecture of the Town Center. That was rejected with - most parts of it - we're retaining some parts of it, but basically, you set out that criteria and reemphasized the criteria that there were two (2) sign locations and the signs should be constructed - the entranceway signs, in substantial conformity to the Exhibits 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D' which were attached to that Agenda Item, which was a color rendering as you would recall. You stipulated or emphasized that one entranceway sign at each of the two (2) locations would be used for business signage, not both of them; and the copy area not to exceed thirty-six (36) square feet of copy space on all surfaces. Nine (9) square feet for Publix, nine (9) square feet for each face for additional tenant users within the IDC property. You allowed reverse channel lit - lettering - you stipulated the entranceway signs would further be in conformance with all other conditions of a "Special Exception" which was already in place; the six (6) that the City Attorney read a few minutes ago. And obviously that the final design would have to be something that would be in the mutual interest of the parties; and you directed that Mr. [Chip] Carrington - get together with me to try to work through some of the outstanding issues - which we met on this - November ',. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE I3 OF 41 the 16th. At that point in time, Mr. [Chip] Carrington raised some issues; I raised some issues. I listed those on the second page here." Discussion. Commissioner Gennell asked about the Agenda Item and Manager McLemore stated, "I have read them into the record for discussion purposes, and I will be happy to formalize, or put that in writing after our discussion tonight." Mr. Charles (Chip) Carrington, Counsel to the James Doran Company: said to the Commission, "Please keep in mind that whatever conditions are attached to this Special Exception application, that we would be coming back to you for final design review at a later date, so you will have an opportunity to look at this, but it is important to note that you are setting parameters tonight, so I don't want to mislead you there. What we are trying to do is get to closing with Publix, which we're shooting for the 13th of this month. " Mr. (Chip) Carrington then advised the Commission that "What we are looking at is two (2) locations, Main Street and the westernmost location as depicted on the original conceptual site plan - westernmost location along 434, so those are the locations we are looking at. The former location at the corner of 434 and Main Street, we are proposing to eliminate, that would be gone; so we would be going from three (3) signs to two (2). On the entry sign at State Road 434, the signage would be on the right; on the one on Main Street, the signage would be on the left as you see it depicted here, with no signage on the proposing corner, and that really is just intended to be a thematically consistent element. It provides some balance at the entry. The Publix letters in reverse channel lit format, in white - we have committed best efforts to get Publix to go along with bronze metallic. In terms of the way the Publix lettering would be configured, we need it to be configured as shown in the signage information sheet, which has always been provided - this here - in terms of how Publix appears just above 'Food and Pharmacy,' and then the tenant letter sized in smaller print than the Publix lettering. Those are requirements of Publix, in the lease." Further, Mr. (Chip) Carrington stated, "We have asked for an option that the sign faces be perpendicular to the right of way, as opposed at a forty-five (45), as you see here, and that is because we are concerned that Publix may not go along with a forty-five (45) degree angle and we know that they will accept a ninety (90) degree alignment with the adjacent right of way, whether that be 434 or Main Street. We have asked for and are asking tonight for an option for flat sign faces instead of curve sign faces, we are going to try for the curved face you see here, but as a fall back, be able to go back to flat. Again, these are issues where we've not had problems so far." Tape 2/Side B ;." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGEI40F41 Signage height and copy areas were then commented on by Mr. (Chip) Carrington. Manager McLemore then remarked about signage characteristics and advised the Commission that "It is important that in all of this, that we not lose the character of Town Center design, in trying to meet that request. Additionally, and I would like in the record that Mr. (Chip) Carrington, you did agree and Mr. Doran agreed that we go to West Palm and review and look at that - where I wanted to point out a number of things to you." Discussion. Commissioner Blake stated, "I would like to know specifically, how we measure copy area. Specifically as it relates to those reverse channel lighted letters." Commissioner Blake referenced a legal case and stated, "I want to be absolutely certain that we understand, and it doesn't say so somewhere in our Ordinances exactly how it is measured, that we need to make that a determination, as we go through this." Mr. (Chip) Carrington stated, "If we decide tonight, you know or if you all decide tonight that it is you know the sign face, in other words, the box within which the - letters are mounted, then that is what it is - it's a 'Special Exception.'" Commissioner Blake then said, "That's a concern I have, is that one of those little loophole things, I want to make sure that we nail that." Regarding the signage, Commissioner Blake then said, "If there is no border around the letters, other than the top edge of the sign and the ground below and the edge of the structure - would it be a rectangle or whatever shape that is, that's as close as it could be to the edge of the letters so that no part of the letter extends part of it and you measure that?" Commissioner Blake added, "That's a question I think we need to have an answer to." Members of the Commission discussed their concerns and made several suggestions to Mr. (Chip) Carrington. Commissioner Martinez added, "I am not voting for a strip mall." Furthermore, Commissioner Martinez said, "I don't want to see stacked signs. I don't. It will take away from what this is intended to be. And if you go to Boca and Pompano - developers don't do - Publix doesn't do what they want - they abide by the City's Ordinances. " Deputy Mayor McLeod pointed out "The car and the car height to the closeness of the - wall, and I believe I pointed that out a couple of weeks ago as one of my concerns that you probably wouldn't see the wall." Deputy Mayor McLeod then said, "When we start talking six foot (6') high signs and we're talking 4 foot (4') high signs, and 3'6" high signs, it would be nice to have some illustrations to show what the intent of those are." .. ~. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 150F41 Additionally, Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "I have been kind of surprised here that at this point, that a sign issue has become such an important ordeal and yet we had a consultant that we used throughout the process, Mr. [Victor] Dover [with Dover, Kohl and Associates], and yet on this particular issue, I don't think that Mr. Dover has been involved on the sign issue to give comments to the Commission; and I also noticed this evening that our Staffleft, even though we are acting as that body, but even to - perhaps ask a question of our Staff, and yet there is no member from that department here to possibly answer questions - I find that somewhat interesting also." Commissioner Martinez stated, "Point of Order" and commented on a previous meeting that Mr. Dover attended. Discussion. Deputy Mayor McLeod spoke of previous negotiations and suggested, "If you want to go forward with this thing, I would really like you and the Manager to be working on this thing - with our Staff to be working on this thing prior to a Commission Meeting, so we have time to really be able to look at it and review it. If you have differences of opinion, between the two (2) of you, I would very much like to see that those differences are - put on paper, from both parties so the Commission can then read what it is." Discussion ensued on whether there would be any kinds of traffic control devices at the "Main Street" intersection. Commissioner Blake stated, "Point of Order" and commented on the intersection in question. Commissioner Gennell then suggested, "If it is a street, name it something." Furthermore, Commissioner Gennell then stated, "As far as obscuring the sign with the parking space there, I think it is a perfectly good place to put a bike rack. Right where the car would nose in, put a bike rack along there and you would have a full view of the sign. Additionally, as for the rest of this, I am having a very hard time, like Commissioner McLeod getting - it all concentrated into something I can say 'Yes' or 'No' about, without having better drawings." Mr. (Chip) Carrington said to the City Commission, "Regarding the visibility thing, it's important to Publix that they have a decent read time for their sign face, and that's the reason for the concern about the car. parked immediately adjacent to the sign, and also, and more importantly, that's the reason for the concern on the size, other than cost, which is a consideration - that's the reason why there is a concern as to - the area that is encompassed by the companion feature on the opposing corner of the street; that the main feature that bears the signage needs to project out so that the companion feature on the opposing corner doesn't block the view of the sign and interfere with the read time for that sign face. There was some indication by one of the Commissioners, or perhaps others that somehow this is a deal breaker for us, as regards going forward. I don't think we said that. I think it is an important issue." " .. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 160F41 Tape 3/Side A Further discussion followed on Mr. Dover's assistance. Mr. (Chip) Carrington spoke of his "Timing considerations." Mr. (Chip) Carrington then stated, "The proposal that I presented to you is what we worked out with Ron earlier, I think and we would like you to vote on that tonight. That's our application. The last time we met, you wouldn't vote on it. We're asking you to vote on it. We're entitled to have you vote on it. We're entitled to have you vote on it as presented. If anything is introduced as a change or a condition I am saying now that the application should be deemed withdrawn; but we are entitled to demand a vote on it as presented, as agreed to by your City Manager earlier today. It's your prerogative to deny it." With further brief discussion on what has been submitted in writing, Mr. (Chip) Carrington stated, "You have a drawing right here and we are proposing that the project signage would be done in substantial confonnity to that, with some minor changes, which I can go over. But, we are demanding that it be considered tonight." Deputy Mayor McLeod said to Mr. (Chip) Carrington, "We are demanding, or we are requesting?" Mr. (Chip) Carrington stated, "We are demanding." Discussion. Commissioner Miller stated, "Point of Order" and commented on his concerns. Deputy Mayor McLeod called a recess at 9:43 p.m. The Special Meeting reconvened at 10: 11 p.m. Note: At the request of the City Commission, the remainder of this Agenda Item was transcribed verbatim. Manager McLemore: "Well, let me - I think we're very close but let me make a suggestion here. Chip [Carrington] let me use our language and walk them down and you agree or don't agree the way we put it; and then if we leave anything out you add to that. I think our language is easier for you to understand than the way he has it listed. But from a substantive point of view, if there's anything left out you raise it. Okay?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "All right." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Are you in agreement to that?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "That's fine." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay. Then Mr. McLemore are you going to conduct this or.. ." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 17 OF 41 Manager McLemore: "...I'm ready." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay." Manager McLemore: "Obviously those six (6) tenants that are already out there in the previous agreement still remain in effect. The new issues are. . ." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "...Wait a moment. What are the six (6) that's out there?" Manager McLemore: "The six (6) that you've already approved under the 'Special Exception,' previously approved. Anthony [Garganese] has those, he listed them earlier. " Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay." Attorney Garganese: "Right, and I think that's in keeping in line with I think what Mr. [Chip] Carrington is trying to propose. Sign must have an integrated architectural feature. There are two (2) locations. One on 434, and one on Main Street. There must be applicable traffic visibility criteria, I mean your Codes require that. Design and Size subject to City Commission approval, your Code requires that. Development Agreement must be amended to provide for the 'Special Exception' contingent upon formal design approval by the Commission, which again your Code calls for. And then Main Street, the sign is smaller than the 434 sign." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay, thank you." Attorney Garganese: "I don't think there's any disagreement on those points." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay. Mr. McLemore?" Manager McLemore: "Then additionally item number one (l) is the sign face may be perpendicular to the road. In agreement Chip, we can take them one by one?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "That's correct." Manager McLemore: "Sign face number two (2), sign face may be flat in the alternative to curvilinear." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "That's correct." Manager McLemore: "Eighteen (18) - sign number three (3), eighteen (18) square feet of copy area on each side for Publix and four (4) tenants, not to exceed a total of thirty-six (36) square feet." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "That's correct." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 18 OF 41 Manager McLemore: "The developer will make a good faith effort to have. . ." Commissioner Blake: "...Is this number four (4)?" Manager McLemore: "This is number four (4)." Commissioner Blake: "Well, list the numbers so we know when you're - going on and not editorializing." Manager McLemore: "Okay. The developer will make a good faith effort to have each tenant on separate sign panels period. In the event this is not acceptable to Publix, stacking as indicated on Exhibit - which we will post in there, which is this Exhibit right here... " Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "...The Signage Information Sheet." Manager McLemore: "Right, the Signage Information Sheet - will be permitted. Number five (5), height of the entranceway features shall not exceed forty-two (42) inches unless necessary to satisfy the aesthetic requirements of the City under the Town Center Code. In other words this is forty-two (42) inches unless the Commission would desire it to be larger. If you present something that looks good, it could be more than forty-two (42) inches." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Okay." Manager McLemore: "Number six (6)..." Commissioner Gennell: ". . .I just want to make sure as we go along, that Chip acknowledges this. .." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "...1 agree - so far." Manager McLemore: "Entranceway features will be substantially in conformance with sketches' A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D' previously, and I - can't cite that exactly but - a previous Agenda Item and we'll note that in writing what that is; its sketches 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and '0...' Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "...1 think..." Manager McLemore: ".. . From a previous Agenda Item." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Let me see them then." Manager McLemore: "It's the four (4) you submitted." " CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGEI90F41 Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Well." Commissioner Blake: "Actually, I have it with me right here and..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "...It should be - November 19th, isn't it?" Commissioner Blake: "It's November lih, 2001..." Manager McLemore: ".. . Agenda Item..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .It's Agenda Item 'B' Regular, and it's Attachment 'D.' It is not 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D;' it's attachment 'D.' And within attachment 'D' are four (4) drawings. . . " Manager McLemore: ".. .And they are lettered at the top left-hand side..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .And these four (4) drawings are not lettered in my package. Hold on, they are lettered as Attachment 'D 1,' 'D2;' I'll give these to you in a second; 'D3,' and 'D4.' Manager McLemore: "I think Chip [Carrington] wanted to look at those right quick." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Just real quick and if you'd repeat your language." Manager McLemore: "Entranceway features will be substantially in conformance with sketches and they are lettered as 'Dl,' 'D2,' 'D3,' and 'D4,' provided in Agenda Item 'B'..." Commissioner Blake: ".. . Regular 'B. ", Manager McLemore: "Regular 'B,' Commission Agenda Item Regular 'B,' of November... " Commissioner Blake: ".. .lih." Manager McLemore: "lih,2001. Okay?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "That's correct." Manager McLemore: "Reverse channel lighted letters will be permitted, it's number seven (7)..." Mr. [Chip) Carrington: "...In white." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 20 OF 41 Manager McLemore: "In white, period. Developer will make a good faith effort to have Publix pern1it - not permit but - Publix to use bronze lettering in the alternative to the white lettering." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "That's correct." Commissioner Blake: "Clarification, this is only for the Publix portion of the sign, or is this all of the sign?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Well, if we go with bronze metallic lettering, I would think all of the lettering for all the tenants would be the same." Commissioner Blake: "And what if Publix will not go with bronze? Can the others be in bronze, or does that not work? Maybe we wouldn't want that, I don't know." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "That's a design issue at that point." Commissioner Blake: "I'm just trying to figure out what the line says and understand it." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Yeah." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Are you done on seven (7) there Ron [McLemore]?" Manager McLemore: "I am done on number seven (7)." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay, do you agree to that Chip [Carrington]?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Yes." Manager McLemore: "Number eight (8), additional sign copy area will be permitted on the main entranceway feature for additional tenants provided that the total copy space of all tenants does not exceed fifty percent (50%) of the exterior wall of the entranceway feature. " Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "That's correct." Manager McLemore: "Only one (1) entranceway feature per location shall..." Commissioner Blake: ". ..Hold on, hold on. Let's go back to number eight (8). Additional copy area allowed up to fifty percent (50%)..." Manager McLemore: "... Let me read it again..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .Ofthe exterior for the..." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE210F41 Manager McLemore: "... The entranceway feature. . ." Commissioner Blake: ".. .For the - what are you calling the main entranceway feature..." Manager McLemore: "... The one that has the signage on it..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .434?" Manager McLemore: "No, no, no. It's at both locations..." Commissioner Blake: ".. . Okay, and is that after you take out the thirty-two (32), I am sorry, the thirty-six (36) square feet?" Manager McLemore: "No inclusive of the thirty-six (36) square feet." Commissioner Blake: "So, why is it necessary to have the thirty-six (36) square foot?" Manager McLemore: "Because they have a requirement with Publix to have that..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: ".. . That's Publix size." Manager McLemore: "Right, and then if you have additional stores, we're saying you can have additional space, but it will not..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .It's only on the exterior wall?" Manager McLemore: "On the exterior wall, right..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .As measured. Thank you." Manager McLemore: "Shall I read it again?" Commissioner Blake: "No, not for me." Commissioner Gennell: "Do you agree with that, Chip?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Yes." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Now again, we're talking about the signage only being on one (1) of those walls." Manager McLemore: "Well that's the next item. Only one (1) entranceway feature per location shall have signage. You have two (2) locations approved already." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Right." CITY OF WINTER SPRfNGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGE 22 OF 41 Manager McLemore: "I can say only one (1) entranceway feature of the two (2) approved locations shall have business identification signage." Commissioner Blake: "What a minute. That's kind of in a way wrong." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Let me suggest another way to phrase that although I think we're in agreement. That - as to the State Road 434 entry sign, the signage would be on the feature on the right side. As to the Main Street entry sign, the signage would be on the feature on the left side." Commissioner Blake: "So, could you even clarify that even better to say on the 434 side, it will be on the east feature, and on the Main Street or Tuskawilla Road sign, it will be on the south feature?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Correct." Manager McLemore: "I think you should refer those as locations..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .Locations..." Manager McLemore: ".. . You've approved two (2) locations. One on 434, and one " on... Mr. [Chip} Carrington: ". ..Right.. ." Manager McLemore: "... Tuskawilla Road." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Agreed." Commissioner Blake: "Because right and left can change, but east and. . ." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "...North and south... Commissioner Blake: "... South doesn't." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "It depends if you're coming or going." Commissioner Blake: "It..." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "... Yeah. Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Agreed." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGE 23 OF 41 Manager McLemore: "Okay, here comes number ten (10). This is the one I think is a little problematic, but let's talk through it. The companion entranceway feature at both locations would be configured so as not to obstruct the view of the sign copy areas, of the main entranceway sign - entranceway features, excuse me, and to emphasize the main entranceway feature. It is contemplated that this will necessitate the companion entranceway feature being smaller than the main entranceway feature. In here, this last sentence is the place that I am a little uncomfortable - the structural features of the companion entranceway will not be more than twenty-four (24) inches in height. That does a couple things. One, it does provide for a seat wall at twenty-four (24) inches, which is important because that gives you a place for people to sit and enjoy; but it obviously doesn't allow for any structural amenities above that at all. So I think if you can get comfortable with that, that's fine. I can get comfortable with it even though I'd like to have a little more flexibility there. I think we know what we're trying to do. We're trying to make the other sign as the emphasis sign - excuse me, the other entranceway as the emphasis, entranceway feature. And this would be, when we need to add this, the design would be in theme with the main entranceway sign." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "That's correct." Commissioner Blake: "Will the..." Manager McLemore: "... The companion. .." Commissioner Blake: "... Will the linear feet of the foundation of the companion sign be the same number of linear feet as are on the other sign?" Manager McLemore: "We were leaving that up to the final design, to let that dictate the way that should be." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "That could be - nothing. .." Manager McLemore: ".. . Pardon me?" Commissioner Blake: "Right now, I can read number ten (10) and I can, I think, assert that there will be no companion side." Manager McLemore: "That's not the intent. We just said..." Commissioner Blake: "...I understand it's not the intent that's why I am bringing it up - it's not our intent, it certainly is not my intent. It says, 'Companion feature will not obstruct view of sign.' Right there I have a problem because, if it's built at all, I bet you I can find a place where it will obstruct the view of the sign - it doesn't says that. Is that what it is from the road?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 24 OF 41 Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "The idea is to adjust the size of it so that it achieves two (2) things; emphasizes the main feature, and doesn't significantly block the view of the main feature. And that's..." Commissioner Blake: "...I could agree to the twenty-four (24) inch high issue if the linear feet in the foundation, meaning the wall linearly - if I am saying this correctly - is the same length as the sign wall. I am saying it doesn't have to be as high. We could have one like this and have landscape features, but as long as it takes up the same amount of ground space that would be the offsetting feature - twenty-four (24) inches, actually I would prefer thirty (30) because then you could actually make it a bench, an integrated bench kind of thing; but at twenty-four (24) inches you wouldn't have the obstruction issue but it would still be visible, it wouldn't disappear. I'm concerned about it disappearing and it'd look like we have a monument sign over here, as opposed to an entrance feature. You go into any top quality development and what you see is symmetry when you go in, and I - am concerned about loosing the sense of symmetry all together. I understand the economic factor of - it costs more to build a sign or to build a feature, and you need visibility on the signs. So I am willing to work with it, but I am looking for a good compromise that works for all of us." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Commissioner Gennell. First of all, Ron [McLemore] how many more points do we have?" Manager McLemore: "That's it - that I have." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Commissioner..." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "... Can I just take a moment to scan through here and just be sure?" Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Sure." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "A couple of just technical points, that are important to Publix and I don't.. ." Commissioner Blake: ". ..Before, Mr. Mayor I am sorry. And I know Commissioner Gennell's light was on and she had a question but before we go on to additional points, I'd like to nail this one first." Manager McLemore: "I have the linear feet of this seat wall which is what we're talking about structuring. Structure shall be not less than the linear feet of the main entranceway. Not less than the structures of the main entranceway." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "My predicament honestly is I don't have authority to reduce, you know, to go beyond what we talked about. I may be prepared to do that at the end but.. ." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 25 OF 41 Commissioner Blake: ".. .It's no different than the drawing you have..." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: ... Whatever else you have..." Commissioner Blake: ". ..It's no different than the drawing you have..." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "...So, if you'll work with me a second." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Well, I think you'd read through and digest those and I think you'd look at your drawings you've presented to us in the past, and I think the two (2) structures square footage or lineal footage-wise are pretty symmetric. So I don't know that you're overstepping your bounds, but you know that better than I do." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "I think, you want me to go ahead and hit these couple of other points or. . ." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "... No. I want you to go ahead and digest the points you had. You wanted to make sure that you understood those ten (10) and then once you agree to those, then - I feel we should probably move forward." Commissioner Blake: "Cindy [Gennell] had her light on." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Four (4) minor points to add that you will have no objection to... " Deputy Mayor McLeod: ".. . Okay, excuse me. You then have agreed to the basic points that the Manager has laid out in front of you?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Leaving the one (1) Issue of the linear - proposed by Commissioner Blake as an open issue, yes..." Commissioner Martinez: ".. . Agreeing tonight." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "I am agreeing to everything that Ron [McLemore] has suggested. " Deputy Mayor McLeod: "What Mr. McLemore. . ." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: ".. . And this is on the table ofthe..," Deputy Mayor McLeod: "... Okay, before I forget, before we go forward 1'd like to see what Commissioner Gennell's questions are with what we have up to this point." Commissioner Gennell: "Just one (1) question. This secondary entrance feature, is it going to be eliminated at all?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 26 OF 41 Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "I would think they both would be." Commissioner Gennell: "I would too but it's not being said here." Manager McLemore: "What was the question, I'm sorry." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Will there be lighting in the companion side element for at night basically. Should be. I would think so." Commissioner Gennell: "I would think so." Manager McLemore: "You would want it lighted with exterior lighting." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Is that it?" Commissioner Gennell: "That was it." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Before we go on I would like to add one comment to this thing and I think it's becoming more prevalent to myself even though I had asked the question before - shifted across. It would seem to me that you by allowing us, or allowing the developer to use the companion side as part of the signage, but have no more square footage than what would be on one side, fifty percent (50%) of the one side, where you allowed to put it twenty-five percent (25%) on each side. That coming from either direction, you would not have blockage as you approach from either direction and it would give you twice the visibility of what you're looking at." Manager McLemore: "That was where I was originally coming from but we left that for the one (1)..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "... Well I mean, as we're continuing to talk about blockage, blockage by plant, blockage by walls, blockage by cars, and if you'll Chip [Carrington] put that back up there, the drawing, I think as you see you come down Tuskawilla Boulevard - or Road, then from either direction you would see signage. And you would lose the blockage issue, you would see more element in the background based on you combine the signage to the two (2) sides. And, I am only throwing that out because I heard a couple Commissioners didn't have an objection to using both sides. I think it'd be more uniform in your design even though they could even be different elevations." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "That's clearly an area we may be able to come back to you with an enhanced design that does just that. But in terms of, that is an area where I can't..." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 27 OF 41 Deputy Mayor McLeod: "... Well I am not telling you to. I am just wanting - I guess the Commission - my question would be, would that be one of the things that could be added to ten (10) to allow nine (9) and ten (10) to drop the signage from fifty percent (50%) off from one, to be no more than fifty percent (50%) used between the two (2) elements; and use the two (2) elements to balance out in ten (10). Think about it." ,J Commissioner Blake: "That's fine with me." Manager McLemore: "I don't have a problem with it." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "I think it gets rid of some of your blockage issues you may have in your designs. And it's only suggested - it may not be able to be higher than forty-two (42) inches, but forty-two (42) on both..." Commissioner Blake: ".. .It's a gift..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "It's not saying you have to do that, it's just saying that it's another option. That's my only point." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "It's an option. Because Ijust can't respond because..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "...I think - it's just an option but it needs to be stated such, and I'd hope the Attorney can do that in the next few minutes, state that in such a fashion that we can attach it to nine (9) or ten (10), as he tells us of his four (4) issues." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Okay, let me tell you of my..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: ".. .Just a second, Commissioner Miller would you have a problem with that?" Commissioner Miller: "No." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay. Commissioner Blake?" Commissioner Blake: "No." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Commissioner Martinez? Okay?.." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: ".. .Just very briefly, Publix requires 'Publix' and below it 'Food and Pharmacy.' So it wouldn't just be 'Publix,' it would be 'Publix, Food, and Pharmacy. ,,, Commissioner Blake: "No problem." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "I think that's been understood." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGE 28 OF 41 Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "I know, I just want to clarify that. And then Publix and tenant letters, to the extent there are tenant letters appearing below 'Publix,' we're going again endeavor to dissuade Publix of that, but the size of the lettering would be consistent with what you see here on the 'Tenant Information Sheet,' to the extent that the letters for the other tenants would be smaller than the letters for Publix." Commissioner Blake: "Whether they're next to it, whether they are adjacent or underneath?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Yeah, Publix is probably going to require that so, even if they are off to one (1) side." Commissioner Blake: "I can understand that." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "And then, again the concept that if it's later determined that an automobile parked here adjacent to the entry feature bearing the signage impacts the read time for that particular sign, in terms of movement in either direction, that you would work with us to delete a space or two (2), and thereby, improve the read time." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "I think that's where the proposal I proposed to you would come in because I think parking spaces are going to be a premium. And rather than delete the parking space, I think you jump to the other side of the street and use both elements to get your signage and that should give you a read from either direction you come. That was my intent not to lose those parking spaces." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Well, if you give us that option I wilL.." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "... That would be the option to keep from losing the car spaces. " Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "The only other thing is again, what we're saying here is the final design would come back to you all. I think Ron [McLemore] pointed that out but that was also in here that. . . " Manager McLemore: ". ..And it's a requirement of the Code..." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "... Coming back to you with a final design that would be subject to your approval." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay, Commissioner Gennell. Yes, that's per Town Center Codes. " Commissioner Gennell: "The lettering being white instead of what - bronze?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE290F41 Manager McLemore: "What we wanted was bronze or something similar metallic lettering that would be very distinctive. But they want white." Commissioner Gennell: "Publix wants white? I am just trying to understand who wants what here." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Publix wants white. We want bronze metallic also." Commissioner Gennell: "They want white letters?" Commissioner Martinez: "They've got them on all on the stores." Commissioner Gennell: But it's not a cost thing, it's just what they're used to using." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "No, it's not a cost factor at all." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay, Commissioner Blake?" Commissioner Blake: "Outside of the question on number ten (10) outstanding - number four (4) which is your efforts to negotiate with Publix to get a non-stacked sign; where is the incentive for you to do that? You can agree to do it, but where is your incentive to make a..." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: ".. . From the standpoint of accommodating other tenants on the same wall surface, it will be to our advantage if we can get the tenants off to one side as opposed to below it. Because the requirement of Publix could be that we can only have those four (4) tenants shown on the Tenant Information Sheet and no more. Then all tenants have to be below them. Well, under the agreement we are striking with you tonight, we can't put any more tenants under Publix than these four (4). So if Publix insists on this, we get no more tenants on the wall surface and that's not what we want." Commissioner Blake: "Okay, I'm convinced. That's good." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "And with this agreement tonight also, then goes away the - conceptual idea that there's ever a monument sign there, correct?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "That's correct." Commissioner Blake: "I wasn't quite done, so as long as you're coming back to me then that's great." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "I shut your light off. Commissioner Blake." CITY OF WINTER SPRfNGS MfNUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE300F41 Commissioner Blake: "If we agree to this right now, are you willing to have this put in writing right now, and do you have the authority to sign off on this right now in writing; so that we don't find ourselves back here in a week renegotiating a point that doesn't exist?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Everything I agreed to tonight which is in the audiotape I think, is binding on the client. So..." Commissioner Blake: "... Which is not exactly the answer to my question." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Well, I don't know that we need to, it's in the audiotape. I don't know that we need to take the time to rewrite it all but if..." Commissioner Blake: "... Well some of us might suggest Chip [Carrington] that we had an agreement previously and it's been altered from there." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Well, I am happy I suppose to sit down and write it out." Commissioner Blake: "Okay, let me ask you a different question. If you have this agreement with you at this point in time, when will you close on the property?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "The goal is the 13th. So it would be any day within a day or two (2) after the 13th. Probably on the 13th." Commissioner Blake: "Is there someway we can build a time limit into this agreement. . . " Manager McLemore: "...Just put it in there..." Commissioner Blake: "... That they will close by December 31 stT' Manager McLemore: "Why don't you put it in there if you'd like?" Commissioner Blake: "Well, I am asking. I don't know ifthat reasonable." Manager McLemore: "What you could say is that if it's not done by the 31 st, that these conditions are no longer applicable. You'd have to start all over." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "That's fine. We really are closing on the 13th." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "We understand that." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "It may get delayed a few days as big commercial transactions do." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE310F41 Commissioner Blake: "I understand that. I am done." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Very good. So you are pretty much in agreement, or you are in agreement with everything spoken about so far I guess, with the exception of what Mr. l?lake had said on item ten (10). So are you now ready to negotiate that part?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "If that's the only item on the table..." Manager McLemore: ".. .Can I read you what I wrote here and see if that's what you were trying to accomplish?" Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Is that regarding which item?" Manager McLemore: "Number ten (10) relates to the option you put on the table allowing signage on the..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "... Yes, but that has nothing to do with what we are discussing about Commissioner Blake at present." Manager McLemore: "Okay." Commissioner Blake: "My issue is the size of the companion side, whether or not it's a sign is a different issue. I think the Commission has indicated that it would.. .." Manager McLemore: "I am ready to read that one." Commissioner Blake: "Involving the size?" Manager McLemore: "Yes. Your words in could?" Commissioner Blake: "Sure. It's fine with me." Manager McLemore: "The linear feet ofthe seat wall structure, this is on the companion, on the companion entranceway features, shall be not less than the structures of the main entranceway." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Would you read that again?" Manager McLemore: "The linear feet of the seat wall structure, and again this is under the caption of the companion sign, the linear feet of the seat wall structure shall be not less than the linear feet of the structures of the main entranceway feature. Then there was the other thing about the companion way will be lighted." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "And there is not a problem with it being lit. In effect we're saying it's got to be the same size." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 32 OF 41 Manager McLemore: "The footprint, basically lineal feet.,.'.' Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "... The area has to be the same. .." Deputy Mayor McLeod: ".. .Needs to be the same size or..." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "...It doesn't encompass the same area..." Commissioner Blake: ". ..In terms of dirt space in height, than twenty-four (24) inches..." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: ".. .But it can be limited to twenty-four (24) inches in height." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Unless you opt to go to the other option. . ." Commissioner Blake: "...I think your best option is to have signs on both sides on the internal side. That gives you your maximum viewage from everyplace." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Can you give me thirty (30) seconds to call Shane [Doran] because it really is more than..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "...No, No, we'll give you thirty (30) seconds because the last ten (10) minutes was thirty-two (32) minutes. So that gives you about three (3) minutes." Manager McLemore: "Well, I have a real question before Shane [Doran] goes." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Let him ask something before he talks to Shane [Doran]." Manager McLemore: "On the entranceway, on the main entranceway feature you have signage going around the entire structure. Are you saying on the secondary one you'd allow that same signage on both sides?" Deputy Mayor McLeod: "That's correct." Manager McLemore: "Okay then my way I wrote it was that the companion entranceway feature may be configured in the same manner as the main entranceway feature. " Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Correct." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Maybe, yeah. It's an option." Commissioner Blake: "Yes, it would be. It gives you the flexibility." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "And I'll tell him that, give me one (1) minute." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 33 OF 41 Commissioner Blake: "You C,~f1 ~tep back there ifyouwani: to."---- - Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Would you like to use a regular phone for a better connection ?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "No..." Commissioner Martinez: "... Go back here so we can tape you." Manager McLemore: "If you go in my conference room we can hear what you're saying. " Deputy Mayor McLeod: "And don't go out to the porch." Manager McLemore: "That also can be a tactic." Commissioner Gennell: "Yes..." Manager McLemore: "... V ery common negotiating..." Commissioner Blake: "Do you want me to tell you what he just said?" " Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "I am trying to access what this thing costs because that may be a deduction from my legal fees." Commissioner Blake: "You guys just moved to new digs, big firm, lots of money. What can happen?" Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Well, the thing I think that you've really got more option that what you came in with. You've got better options." Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "I agree with that." Commissioner Blake: "Not to mention the financing costs you are going to save by being able to close now as opposed to two (2) months from now when rates are going to be a point higher. You should get a bonus for that." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Anthony [Garganese] did you, did we get the question I asked you to look at resolved, his wording? Is that what Ron [McLemore] did? I think that's what you did, wasn't it?" Mr. [Chip] Carrington: "Yeah, Ron [McLemore] did that." Manager McLemore: "Wording?" ~ I" _ .~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS ~- -________ MINUTES .. ", .. ---~-------- -----... CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING-=:. DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 34 OF 41 Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Yes, do you agree with that Anthony [Garganese]?" Attorney Garganese: "I...paying attention to Mr. [Chip] Carrington and Ron [McLemore] was drafting..." Manager McLemore: ".. .Right. I just read it to you and then basically, do you want me to read it again?" Deputy Mayor McLeod: "No, I understood it. I was just checking with Anthony [Garganese] to make sure he agreed." Manager McLemore: "Could I address one other thing while we're waiting? Are you still thinking?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Yeah." Manager McLemore: "I'd rather not have to write this tonight." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "We're not writing it tonight. It's on tape. It is on tape." Manager McLemore: "All right, good." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "By the way, this Commissioner's going to be out of here in fifteen (15) minutes so..." Commissioner Miller: "... So is this one." Commissioner Martinez: "Hey Chip [Carrington], I am not in favor of stacked signs. But if you all go along with this - request, I'll go along with stacked signs." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "I honestly don't, I'll agree to it. I'll agree to it. We agree to it." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "All right, Commissioner Gennell has her light on. Do you have something to ask before we accept this agreement?" Commissioner Gennell.' "I was just going to try and help out on the companion and say just being equal to, or substantially equal to but. . ." Deputy Mayor McLeod: ".. . That's basically what Ron [McLemore] did." Commissioner Gennell: "Yes, well my light was on before - so it's off. Just for clarification here, it's my understanding to those as options. Am I right?" ~ CITY OF WfNTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE 35 OF 41 Deputy Mayor McLeod: "No, he is agreeing to the ten (10) points with two (2) different options I believe..." Commissioner Gennell: ".. .Right, so you are not committing your client to the options?" Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "To the options, no. But to the other things we are committing." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Yes you are. And those you agreed to primarily as you went down through them, with the only thing you are really committing your client to was the lineal footage of the footer of the second one if you stuck to your original agreement of the twenty- four (24) inches' in height." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Right and so they would be subject to a twenty-four (24) inch height limit." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "That's correct. But with the same lineal foot, not footprint, but same lineal size of foundation." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Right." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "So that's really the only committed thing that you're really committed to, that you basically say you didn't have authorization to." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: "Right." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "Okay, just so that we're clear on that. The other ten (10) points are fine." Manager McLemore: "And ground breaking is still January..." Mr. [Chip} Carrington: ".. . Twenty (20), whatever date we..." Manager McLemore: "... Twenty-six (26), I think it was.. ." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "... Whatever, Commissioner Blake I am looking for a Motion." Commissioner Blake: "THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ENTER INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE DORAN GROUP ON THE SIGNAGE ISSUE FOR THE TOWN CENTER DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WILL INCLUDE EACH OF THE TEN (10) POINTS AS ENUMERATED BY CITY MANAGER, AND ADDITIONALLY THE OTHER TWO (2) POINTS AS ADDED IN BY THEIR ATTORNEY, ATTACHING THE DRAWINGS 'D' '1,' 'D' '2,' 'D' '3,' 'D' '4' AS WERE MENTIONED IN THOSE POINTS AND THE SIGN SHEET, AND ATTACHING - VERBATIM MINUTES OF ONLY THE ~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3. 2001 PAGE 36 OF 4\ DISCUSSION OF THESE POINTS. IN OTHER WORDS NOT GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF TIME." Commissioner Gennell: "SINCE THE BREAK." Commissioner Blake: "NOT EVEN, EVEN LATER THAN SINCE THE BREAK BUT, VERBATIM MINUTES LISTING NUMBER ONE'S (1), TWO (2), THREE (3), FOUR (4), FIVE (5), SIX (6), ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TEN (10). PLUS THE OTHER TWO (2) POINTS ADDED INTO WITH OR BY THEIR ATTORNEY AND THE OPTIONS RIGHT. THANK YOU." Commissioner Gennelt.. "SECOND." [DISCUSSION.] Tape 3/Side B Attorney Garganese: "...OKAY I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NECESSITY OF ATTACHING THE MINUTES TO THE AGREEMENT. POTENTIALLY THEY COULD, I MEAN THE AGREEMENT IS GOING TO BE THE FINAL MEMORIALIZATION OF WHAT WE AGREED TO THIS EVENING AND I DON'T SEE THE PURPOSE OF PUTTING THE MINUTES..." Commissioner Blake: "...MY PURPOSE OF THAT IS BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE AGREEMENT MIRRORS WHAT OUR DISCUSSIONS WERE TONIGHT. IF THERE HAS TO BE A CHANGE IN IT, THEN IT HAS TO COME BACK BEFORE THIS COMMISSION." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "YOU ONLY ASKED VERBATIM MINUTES ON THE TEN (10) POINTS." Commissioner Blake: "PLUS THE TWO (2) THAT THE ATTORNEY..." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "...AND THE OPTIONS. NOT TO SAY IT HAD TO BE ATTACHED TO THE AGREEMENT. HE JUST WANTED IT, I THINK I UNDERSTOOD..." Attorney Garganese: "WELL, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ATTACHED TO THE AGENDA ITEM WHEN THE FINAL AGREEMENT COMES BACK? IS THAT..." Commissioner Blake: "...YES. THOSE ITEMS, THE DRAWINGS, THOSE FOUR (4) PIECES HAVE TO BE ATTACHED TO THE AGREEMENT." Attorney Garganese: "OKAY, I MISUNDERSTOOD." .. ~r CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGE370F41 Commissioner Blake: "WELL, I MIGHT HAVE MISSPOKEN. BUT WHEN IT COMES BACK TO US WE NEED TO HAVE THAT SECTION OF VERBATIM MINUTES SO THAT WE CAN CROSS-REFERENCE AND MAKE SURE THAT THE AGREEMENT IS IN STEP WITH WHAT WE DID HERE VERBALLY." Attorney Garganese: "OKAY. AND THEN ONE OTHER POINT IS MR. [CHIP] CARRINGTON HAD MENTIONED THAT OF COURSE, FINAL DESIGN OF SIGN IS SUBJECT TO CITY COMMISSION APPROVAL PER TOWN CENTER CODE. THAT WAS THE THIRD POINT HE MADE." Manager McLemore: "RIGHT, THAT'S ALREADY..." Commissioner Blake: "...THAT'S CORRECT. THAT WAS ALREADY IN THE FIRST SIX (6), BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. MY MOTION MEANT TO INCLUDE EACH OF THOSE POINTS THAT HE BROUGHT UP, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THAT THIRD POINT AS WELL. SINCE MY ATTORNEY SAYS WE HAVE TO DO THAT." Deputy Mayor McLeod: "AND HE ALSO AGREED MONUMENT SIGNS IS NEVER TO BE USED AGAIN IN THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS?" Commissioner Blake: "IN THE TOWN CENTER." . Deputy Mayor McLeod: "WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR AND A SECOND. ANY QUESTIONS?" Commissioner Blake: "MOTION TO ADJOURN?" Deputy Mayor McLeod: "PLEASE CALL THE ROLL." City Clerk Lorenzo-Luaces: "COMMISSIONER MILLER?" Commissioner Miller: "AYE." City Clerk Lorenzo-Luaces: "COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ?" Commissioner Martinez: " AYE." City Clerk Lorenzo-Luaces: "COMMISSIONER BLAKE?" Commissioner Blake: " AYE." City Clerk Lorenzo-Luaces: "COMMISSIONER GENNELL?" Commissioner Gennell: " AYE." . '~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3. 2001 PAGE 38 OF 41 City Clerk Lorenzo-Luaces: "DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD?" Deputy Mayor McLeod: "AYE." MOTION CARRIED. "MOTION TO ADJOURN." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. "MOTION TO ADJOURN." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. Commissioner Gennell stated, "I wanted to ask Mr. Garganese if he has the Ordinance that we asked him to bring up at the end of that Meeting." Attorney Garganese replied, "It will be on next Monday's Agenda." Commissioner Martinez departed the Meeting at 10:53 p.m. Tape 3/Side B IV. REPORTS (ITEMS CONTINUED FROM THE NOVEMBER 26, 2001 REGULAR MEETING.) REPORTS A. City Attorney - Anthony A. Garganese, Esquire Attorney Garganese informed the Commission that, "Regarding the Oviedo/Seminole . County litigation, I got word from the - City of Oviedo's City Attorney - that they do not want to skip Mediation." Attorney Garganese added, "They want to schedule a Mediation with the City Manager, and according to the City Attorney of Oviedo, Seminole County is in agreement with Oviedo." Regarding a "Dog barking citation, involving Ms. Rawlins that went to Code Enforcement Trial before the County Court on Friday." Attorney Garganese stated that "The Judge directed the City and Ms. Rawlins to Mediation." Attorney Garganese then stated that regarding the Respite Center, "We have received word from St. John's - that the Wetland line is what was represented by HCCH. There are approximately 3.25 or 3.4 uplands on the property. That line is good until 2006. Further, St. John's based on their re-walk of the property on November 5th have found no permit violations on the property. Furthermore, the Army Corps of Engineers sent a letter stating they are not claiming jurisdictional wetlands on the property." Additionally, Attomey Garganese stated, "The contract remains in effect. They have met the conditions to closing and will proceed to closing in the next week, probably." ;... .~ CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE390F41 REPORTS B. City Manager - Ronald W. McLemore No Report. REPORTS C. City Clerk - Andrea Lorenzo-Luaces No Report. REPORTS D. Commission Seat Five - David W. McLeod No Report. REPORTS E. Commission Seat One - Robert S. Miller No Report. REPORTS F. Commission Seat Two - Michael S. Blake Commissioner Blake stated that regarding the bike trail head area at the "Black Hammock Bike Trail- there are a bunch of signs all over about 'Keep Jetta Point green,' and call this number, it's the County Commission. Apparently the landowner out there is looking to have the County purchase that entire area which goes all the way up into the Interchange District. - the front portion, the north portion is key commercial property, it's in the City. The south end of it is pristine and could well be purchased and used I think as natural lands or park lands of the County. But the County is going to be hearing this next week and looking perhaps to buy the entire parcel, so I think the Commission should take a position of whether or not we want the entire parcel to be bought by the County under their control, or by the State's Natural Lands and be turned into undeveloped property. " Commissioner Gennell commented that the representative for the property owner was "Seeking to have the State buy it." Discussion. " CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3, 2001 PAGE400F41 "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT THE CITY MANAGER FORWARD THE LETTER AT THE INSTRUCTION OF THE CITY COMMISSION, AND INCLUDE IN THERE THAT THE REASON HE IS DOING IT, AND NOT THE MAYOR, IS BECAUSE THE MAYOR HAS A CONFLICT." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER GENNELL. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER GENNELL SAID, "THAT LETTER IS OPPOSING THE STATE PURCHASING THAT FOR NATURAL LANDS." COMMISSIONER MILLER STATED, "CORRECT." DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD THEN SAID, AND THAT I UNDERSTAND IT HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT AWAY, IS THAT CORRECT?" COMMISSIONER MILLER STATED, "YES - TOMORROW MORNING." COMMISSIONER BLAKE ADDED, "AND THE LETTER SHOULD GO NOT ONLY TO STAFF, BUT TO EACH OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS THERE." MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "THE LETTER BASICALLY WOULD SAY THAT WE ARE OPPOSED TO ALL OF THE PROPERTY BEING - BOUGHT, AND THE FRONTAGE RESERVED FOR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT?" COMMISSIONER BLAKE STATED, "I THINK CERTAINLY THE NORTHERN EIGHT HUNDRED FEET, MAYBE A THOUSAND FEET SHOULD BE RESERVED FOR COMMERCIAL AS IT IS." DISCUSSION FOLLOWED ON THE LAND USE, AND THAT THE "FUTURE LAND USE" SHOULD BE REFERENCED IN THE LETTER. VOTE: COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. REPORTS G. Commission Seat Three - Edward Martinez, Jr. No Report as Commissioner Martinez had departed the Meeting. .. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - DECEMBER 3,2001 PAGE4I0F41 REPORTS H. Commission Seat Four - Cindy Gennell Commissioner Gelmell stated, "Ron, you were talking about funds, and everything being identified properly and everything. There was a donation made to this City, three (3) or four (4) years ago, from the estate of Mr. John Baker, who was the honorary historian, for the purpose of establishing a historical museum. And, I would like to make sure that that m<:'lley is properly identified in the budget, and also that it starts accruing some interest or something, if we are just going to sit on it." REPORTS I. Office Of The Mayor - Paul P. Partyka Absent. VI. ADJOURNMENT Deputy Mayor McLeod stated, "I am looking for a Motion to adjourn." "SO MOVED." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. DISCUSSION. VOTE: COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE COMMISSIONER GENNELL: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Deputy Mayor McLeod adjourned the Special Meeting at 11 :01 p.m. NOTE: These m;nutes were approved at the December 10, 2001 Regular City Commission Meeting.