HomeMy WebLinkAbout2000 04 24 Other - Document Presented by Micky Grindstaff
THIS WAS PRESENTED BY MICKY GRINDSTAFF AT THE APRIL 24, 2000
REGULAR MEETING, UNDER:
v. PUBLIC HEARINGS
B. Community Development Department - Planning Division
Requests The City Commission Hold A Public Hearing For Second Reading And
Adoption Of Ordinance 2000-10 Adopt The Large Scale Comprehensive Plan
Amendment (LG-CPA-1-99) That Would Create A Future Land Use Map
Designation "Town Center" And Add Goal, Objectives, And Policies To The Text
Of The Land Use Element Of The City's Comprehensive Plan (Volume 2 Of2).
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Transcripts of
PUBLIC HEARINGS and/or WORKSHOPS
City of Winter Springs//Schrimsher
VOLUME V
.
.
.
][NDEX
to
PUBLIC HEARINr.GS and/or WORKSHOPS
City of Winter Springs II Schrimsher
Volume V
1.
City Commission - Workshop & Regular Meeting
- Mm'cb 27, 2000
2.
City Commission - Regular Meeting
- April i 0, 2000
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ORLDOCS 10016611.1 LKF
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
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CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
CITY COMMISSION- WORKSHOP & REGULAR MEETING
-----------------------------------------------------
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TRANSCRIPT OF REGULAR MEETING HELD ON MARCH
27, 2000, BEGINNING AT 5:30 P.M. AT CITY COMMISSION
CHAMBERS, 1126 EAST STATE ROAD 434, WINTER SPRINGS,
FLORIDA, AND REPORTED BY SANDRA A. MOSER, REGISTERED
PROFESSIONAL REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE OF
FLORIDA AT LARGE.
t~i ,~.~. '. ",>.
Realtime '~~ters. Inc.
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1188 Fox Forrest Circle · Apopka. Florida 32712 · (407) 884-4662 · FAX (407) 884-4664
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Professional Reporting SInce 1977
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PRO C E E DIN G S
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO
HEAR FROM THE CITY MANAGER ABOUT THE SEQUENCING OF
THE TOWN CENTER AND THE SCHRIMSHER AGREEMENT, IF
THERE IS A REASON FOR HAVING THEM SEQUENCED THAT
WAY OR IF IT MAKES ANY REAL DIFFERENCE.
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, I THINK YOU SHOULD DO
THE AGREEMENT BEFORE YOU TAKE UP THE CODE.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY.
FINE.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. AND I GUESS THE ONLY
OTHER QUESTION I HAVE IS, AGAIN, AT T~IS POINT,
MAYBE SOME DISCUSSION -- IS THIS CHARTER
DISCUSSION.
IT'S A FAIRLY
IMPORT.~NT ISSljE,
p.,r\,j) ITI
.~ND II
GETS RELEGATED ALL THE WAY
TO THE BACK END.
THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO TALK ABOUT IT
TOWARDS THE FRONT OF --
17 (WHEREUPON, OTHER ISSUES WERE DISCUSSED THAT ARE NOT
1
I HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT
18 PART OF THIS RECORD.)
19 DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
20
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THE SCHRIMSHER AGREEMENT.
MR. MCLEMORE:
I THINK WE INTEND TO COVER
THAT WITH YOU FAIRLY EARLY.
23 (WHEREUPON, OTHER ISSUES WERE DISCUSSED THAT ARE KJT
24 PART OF THIS RECORD.)
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,.., -
L.:J
I BELIEVE, BEFORE WE GO INTO
MR. MCLEMORE:
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PUBLIC HEARING, WE WOULD NOT NEED TO GO INTO THE
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REGULAR AGENDA UNDER "A".
3
YEAH.
WE'RE MOVING "A" AND "B"
MR. PARTYKA:
4
UP.
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I'M SORRY.
I WAS LATE
MR. MCLEMORE:
OKAY.
6
ON THAT.
7
AND I ALSO THINK THAT THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS
ON THE AGREEMENT WITH THE SCHRIMSHERS. IT APPEARSI
THERE'S A LOT OF BLANK SPACES OF DATES AND I
I
DOCUMENTATION THAT APPEAR TO ME NEED TO BE DOTTED
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AND CROSSED ON THIS THING.
AND I'D HOPE THOSE
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THINGS COME THIS EVENING, ALSO, WITH RESPECT TO
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T~~S THING.
T~AT HELPS FILL IN THE BLANKS OF T~E
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F.GREEIvjENT, BECAUSE .liS YOU RE.~_D IT, IT DOESN'T
i5
TOTALLY LEAD YOU THROUGH IT.
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THE QUESTIONI
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AND THEN THE DOLLARS AND CENTS.
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I HAD THERE WAS DOLLARS AND CENTS TIED FROM THE
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CITY'S SIDE OF WHAT WE'RE SAYING IN SIX MON~HS
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WE'RE WILLING TO DO AND WHAT THAT DOLLAR IS, AND
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WHAT WE'RE WILLING TO DO IN 12 AND 18 MONTHS AND
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HOW IS THAT OFFSET ON THE DEAL WITH THE
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SCHRIMSHERS. AND I THINK BEFORE I CAN MAKE SOME
~
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SENSE OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE, I'D HAVE TO HAVE
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THAT.
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I DO KNOW THAT -- I HAD SPOKE TO THE CITY
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MANAGER ON THIS AND I KNOW THAT WE HAVE SOME
BUDGET NUMBERS BROADCAST TO US, PROBABLY OCTOBER
OR MAYBE EVEN BEFORE THAT OR SINCE.
I'M NOT
SURE.
BUT I NEED TO KNOW HOW TRUE THOSE NUM3ERS
ARE TODAY.
BECAUSE, AT THE TIME, I DO REMEMBER
THE SCHRIMSHER STAFF DID TAKE SOME QUESTION TO HOW
SOLID THOSE NUMBERS WERE AND HOW GOOD THEY WERE,
OR WERE THEY GOOD NUMBERS.
SO I WOULD HOPE THAT'S
PART OF WHAT'S BEEN IRONED OUT HERE.
MR. PARTYKA:
YES.
WE'LL DISCUSS THAT.
NOW, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO AT THIS POINT IS
2.2 i CALL THIS MEETING.
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~~ (WH~RE~PON, THE WORKSHOP EKSED AND THE RE3~~AR MEE~ING
14 ST?RTS.)
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IYjR. PARTYKA:
MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM,
TH? T' SUNDER REGULl'.R AGEND.Zl. "A".
CITY MANAGER
PRESENTS TO THE COMMISSION FOR THEIR
CONSIDERATION, THE RE~0EST O? THOMAS ~. MCGEE, NTRi
DEVELOPMENT, INC., TO DELETE FROM TEE PROPOSED
TOWN CENTER PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE SOUTHWEST
CORNER OF STATE ROAD 434 AND TUSKAWILLA.
MR. MCGEE.
CITY MANAGER, ANYTHING YOU WANT TO SAY PRIOR
TO MR. MCGEE COMING UP?
MR. MCLEMORE:
WELL, I THINK WE PRESENTED
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.
.
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STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, AND WE DON'T REALLY SEE
2
CAUSE FOR DELETING THIS FROM THE TOWN CENTER. YOU
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HAVE AN ANNEXATION PROPOSAL NEXT DOOR TO BE
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INCLUDED IN THE TOWN CENTER, EVEN THOUGH IT'S
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CERTAINLY, I THINK MR. MCGEE FEELS LIKE IT'S
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IMPORTANT.
I DON'T THINK IT BENEFITS THE CITY.
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MR. MCGEE: GOOD EVENING.
TOM MCGEE, NTR
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DEVELOPMENT, ORLANDO, FLORIDA.
o
....
MR. PARTYKA:
COULD YOU HOLD UP FOR ONE
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SECOND? CAN EVErtYBODY HEAR THAT MICROPHONE?
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Iv1R. MCGEE: NO.
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MR. PARTYKA: NO. WHO CAN MAKE THE
13
ADJUSTMENTS HERE?
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Iv'] R. Me GEE : T EST . GOO D T EST . 1ST H]i. T 0 KAY?
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MR. PARTYKA: CAN YOU HOLD IT? IS T:LZiT
~6
E.ZiSIER FOR YOU?
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MR. MCGEE:
I'LL BEND A BIT.
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MR. PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT.
:"9
MR. MCGEE:
I APPRECIATE THE COMMISSION
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SEEING ME TWO WEEKS AGO AND ALLOWING ME THE
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OPPORTUNITY TO GO FURTHER OVER THE THREE MINUTES
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ALLOWABLE.
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CURRENTLY I'M UNDER AGREEMENT FOR APPROXIMATELY 101
THE PURPOSE OF ME BEING HERE TONIGHT IS
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ACRES OF THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF STATE ROAD 434
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AND TUSKAWILLA.
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TOWARDS THE END OF 1999 IS WHEN I WAS IN A
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POSITION WHERE I GAINED CONTROL OF THESE
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PROPERTIES. EARLY 2000, I MADE AN ATTEMPT TO HAVE
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A PRE-APPLICATION MEETING WITH THE CITY.
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CURRENTLY, THE PROPERTY IS AN ENCLAVE WITHIN
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SEMINOLE COUNTY. AND I HAD A PRE-AP WITH THE CITY
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ON OR ABOUT JANUARY 18TH, ABOUT 10, 12, 14 DAYS
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TH~REAFTERi HAD A PRE-A? WITH SEMINOLE COUNTY.
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CURR~NTLY, THE PROPERTY, WITH THERE BEING AN
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ENCLAVE, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT IN ORDER FOR ME TO
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ANNEX INTO THE CITY, I WOULD NEED TO OBTAIN WATER
- ~
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AK~ SEWER FROM THE CITY.
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WEAT I'M ATTEMPTING TO DO IS TO HAV~ THE
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SOU7HWEST CORNER, THE QUADRANT, REMOV~D FROM THE
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TOKN CENTER CONCEPT.
I MADE THIS W~LL KNOWN TO MY
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PRE-AP MEETING -- I MADE THIS WELL KNOWN AT MY
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PRE-AP MEETING WITH THE COUNTY. AND THE MAJOR
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TERUST, OR ONE OF THE MAJOR THRUSTS I MADE IS I
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WANT TO HAVE THIS REMOVED -- THE PARCEL REMOVED
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FROM THE TOWN CENTER CONCEPT -- IS THE BASIS OF
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THE TOWN CENTER CONCEPT, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND
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READING THROUGH THE DOCUMENTATION SUPPLIED TO ME
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BY THE CITY, IS A RES:DENTIAL AND
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PEDESTRIAN-FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT.
.
.
.
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THE WAY I VIEW THIS INTERSECTION, YOU
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CURRENTLY HAVE A MAJOR EAST/WEST CARRIER IN STATE
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ROAD 434 CARRYING PROBABLY CLOSE TO 40,000
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VEHICLES PER DAY. YOU'VE GOT ENOUGH RIGHT-OF-WAY
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AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE -- IT COULD BE FIVE
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YEARS FROM NOW, IT COULD BE EIGHT YEARS FROM
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NOW -- TO BE BASED ON CAPACITY. THAT ROAD CAN
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EASILY BE EXPANDED TO SIX LANES.
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YOU CURRENTLY HAVE THE ROAD WIDENING OF
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TUSKAWILLA ROAD NORTHBOUND. YOU'VE GOT TWO LANES
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NORTHBOUND, TWO LANES SOUTHBOUND. YOU'VE GOT A
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DUAL TURN LANE AT THE INTERSECTION. AND IN FACT,
i ~
W~AT I UNDERSTAND AND WHAT I SEE HERE IS YOU'VE
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GOT? rv:.~JOR "T" INTERSECTION vJITH THE :SULK OF
YOUR1
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~RA?FIC HEADING :SOTH EAST AND WEST AND
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S 0;j':"E3 OUND .
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I'M NOT HERE GOING AGAINST THE TOWN CENTER
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COI\'CE?T.
I BELIEVE THE EFFORTS THAT YOU PUT
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FORWARD FOR THE CONCEPT AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO
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CREATE THE TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR
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ON THE NORTHEAST/NORTHWEST QUADRANTS -- I BELIEVE
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THAT TO BE A VERY STRONG DIRECTION THAT THE CITY'S
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TAKING, ESPECIALLY FROM THE STANDPOINT THAT YOU'VE
2f:
GOT A TWO-LANE ROAD NORTHBOUND IN WHICH YOU'RE
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A3LE TO CONTROL -- DRAMATICALLY CONTROL THE FLOW
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OF TRAFFIC.
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I JUST DON'T ENVISION -- I JUST DON'T SEE
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PEOPLE MILLING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THESE TWO
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INTERSECTIONS AND CUTTING ACROSS AND COMING TO A
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PROJECT THAT I MAY DEVELOP ON THE SOUTHWEST
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CORNER.
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A COUPLE AREAS THAT I SEE THE TOWN CENTER
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CONCEPT BEING MOVED FORWARD WITHIN MAYBE THE
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CENTRAL FLORIDA AREA.
I RECEIVED PLANS ON WHAT
1 0
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THE CITY OF CASSELBERRY'S DOING.
WHAT THEY, IN
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EFFECT, ARE DOING, YOU'VE GOT A MAJOR NORTH/SOUTH
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17-92 CARRIER.
IN EFFECT, WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS"
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WT~~ THAT ARTERY, DISSECTING THAT INTERSECTION.
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THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO MOVE FORWArtD TO HAVE THEIR
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TOWN CENTER CONCEPT MOVED OFF TO THE EAST SIDE OF
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17-92, GET IT AWAY FROM HAVING PEOPLE MILLING BACK
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AN~ FORTH.
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I'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW, THROUGH
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THE DOCUMENTATION -- I MEAN, I DON'T THINK I CAN
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QUOTE SOME VERBIAGE IN HERE.
I THINK EVERYBODY'S
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PROBABLY READ IT.
BUT I'M NOT AGAINST THE TOWN
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CENTER CONCEPT ON THE NORTHEAST AND NORTHWEST
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QUADRANTS.
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BUT I DO NOT THINK, IN THIS INSTANCE, THAT
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THAT CONCEPT THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD
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MAKES SENSE FOR THE SOUTHWEST OR, FOR THAT MATTER,
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THE SOUTHEAST QUADRANTS. AND I WOULD REQUEST THE
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COMMISSION TO MAKE A MOTION TO REMOVE THIS PORTION
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OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE TOWN CENTER -- THE
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PROPOSED TOWN CENTER ORDINANCE.
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MR. PARTYKA: OKAY.
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
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MR. MARTINEZ:
I'D JUST LIKE TO STATE THAT
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CONTRARY TO WHAT THE GENTLEMAN SAID, THE
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DEPARTMENT OF -- STATE DEPARTMENT OF
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TRANSPORTATION HAS NO PLANS TO WIDEN STATE ROAD
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434 ANYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE TOWN CENTER AREA IN
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THE VERY NEAR FUTURE. I'M TALKING ABOUT AS FAR
AS,
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LulJ.
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MR. PARTYKA: YOUR MIKE.
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MR. MARTINEZ:
I'M SORRY. DID YOU GET THAT?
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THE CLERK: YES, SIR.
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MR. MARTINEZ: OKAY. THAT'S ALL I WANT TO
SAY.
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MR. PARTYKA: OH, OKAY.
THANK YOU.
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CITY MANAGER, DO YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING?
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MR. MCLEMORE: SEVERAL COMMENTS, PLEASE.
YOU
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HAD 22 HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATIONS COME IN THIS VERY
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BUILDING HERE AND TELL YOU, NO MORE STRIP MALLS.
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YOU SPENT A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS ON THIS
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PLAN. THERE ARE NUMEROUS EXAMPLES THROUGHOUT THE
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WORLD WHERE THESE TYPES OF TRADITIONAL TOWN
CENTERS AND CITY CENTERS ARE LOCATED ON FOUR-LANE,
SIX-LANE AND, EVEN IN FRANCE AND PARIS, 12 LANES,
AND THEY'RE VERY SUCCESSFUL.
I DON'T BUY THE ARGUMENT. I DON'T DOUBT HIS
SINCERITY AT ALL. I THINK HE'S HERE REPRESENTING
HIS BUSINESS INTEREST, AND I DON'T BLAME HIM AT
ALL. I DON'T THINK HIS INTEREST IS IN THE
INTEREST OF THE CITY.
I SPENT A GOOD HOUR AND A HALF TODAY TALKING
TO ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS FROM WINTER PARK, AND
HE TOL0 ME THE NUMBER OF TIMES DEVELOPERS STOOD IN,
FRONT OF TH~M TRYING TO CONVINCE THEM NOT TO HOLD
THE:R PLAN TOGETHER ON THE DIVISION OF WINTER PARKI
MALL. THEY JUST REFUSED TO DO IT. THE DEVELOPER
DIDN'T wANT TO DO IT. THEY DID IT. AND NOW THE
DEVELO?ER SAYS IT'S ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL
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?R03ECTS THEY'VE EVER HAD.
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WE HAVE HAD VICTOR DOVER REVIEW HIS PLAN AND
MADE SOME COMMENTS BACK TO HIM AS TO HOW HIS PLAN
COULD BE REARRANGED TO FIT WITHIN YOUR TOWN CENTER
GUIDELINES. I JUST DON'T SEE THE CASE FOR THIS AT
ALL, PARTICULARLY WITHIN THE LIGHT OF HOW MUCH
EFFORT THIS COMMISSION HAS PUT INTO GETTING THIS
PROJECT OFF THE GROUND AND PRESERVING ITS
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INTEGRITY.
AND THIS, IN MY OPINION, DOESN'T WORK
2
FOR THIS COMMUNITY.
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OKAY.
MR. PARTYKA:
THANK YOU.
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COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
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MR. BLAKE:
THANK YOU.
RON, WHAT SIZE IS
6
THIS PROPERTY?
7
I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 10,
MR. MCLEMORE:
8
ACR2S OR SO.
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MR. BLAKE: TEN IS AN IMPORTANT NUM3ER. DO I
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KNOW WHETHER IT'S TEN EXACTLY? IS IT MORE THAN'
10
v,m
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TEN? IS IT LESS THAN TEN?
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MR. MCGEE:
IT'S JUST ABOUT 10 ACRES.
THE
1 -
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PR:rv:Jl3Y --
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,
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MR. MCGEE: THERE ARE TWO DIF?ERENT PARC:::~S. i
ONDUCK PIECE IS APPROXIMATELY 7,3 ACRSS, THATI
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!
rV;R.
3L.~KE :
LESS TH.~.N
TEN.
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""T"~
_n.t...
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SITS ON THE CORNER AND THAT INCLUDES THE
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EJI.I\::JY - WAY.
AND PART OF MY DEVELOPMENT INCLDDES
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REMJVAL OF TEE HANDY-WAY.
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THE ADJACENT PROPERTY ON THE IMMEDIATE WEST
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ALONG 434, THE PACE PROPERTY, THAT'S, I BELIEVE,
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JUST UNDER 2.8 ACRES.
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AND FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IN THE COUNTY, THE
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ONDUCK PIECE IS CURRENTLY THE FUTURE LAND USE, AND
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I BELIEVE THE EXISTING ZONING IS COMMERCIAL.
AND
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THE PACE PIECE
I BELIEVE THE EXISTING ZONING ON
2
THE PACE PIECE IS P.O.
I DO NOT -- I DON'T
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BELIEVE THE FUTURE LAND USE ON THE PACE PIECE IS
4
COMMERCIAL.
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MR. BLAKE: WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A GOOD
6
DRAWING OF THE PROPERTY BOUNDARIES LIKE WE
7
NORMALLY HAVE. THE PACE PIECE IS THE CORNER; IS
8
THAT CORRECT?
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MR. MCGEE: TEE ONDUCK PIECE IS THE CORNER.
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MR. BLAKE: DO YOU HAPPEN TO EAVE A BETTER
11
DRAWING THERE THAT WE CAN THROW UP ON THE SCREEN?
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WHILE HE'S LOOKING FOR THAT, RON, DON'T WE
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HAVE AN INTERLOCAL WITH
COUNTY A?;:)UT
r'j"'up
_ ......o...J
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ANNEXATION OF THE PROFERTIES WEEN ~~EY C~ANGE
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HANDS?
1 h
...;.. \,.'
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, WHEN THEY CHANGE HANDS,
17
THEY REMAIN COUNTY UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE CITY
2.3
ZONES THEM, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ~E.
19
MR. BLAKE: WHICH MEANS THAT PARCEL TEAT'S
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INI
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AN ENCLAVE CHANGES HANDS AS SOON AS WE DO THE
21
ADMINISTRATIVE ZONING ON IT.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO
22
BE BY APPLICATION.
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MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S CORRECT.
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MR. BLAKE: THEN IT'S ANNEXED AT THAT POINT
25
IN TIME.
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MR. MCLEMORE: YOU CAN ANNEX IT BEFORE THE
ZONING. YOU CAN ANNEX BEFORE ZONING. BUT ONCE
YOU TAKE AN ACT TO ZONE -- IT RETAINS ITS COUNTY
ZONING UNTIL YOU ACT ON ZONING.
MR. BLAKE: THAT MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT
QUESTION. THREE YEARS AGO WE HAD AN ISSUE THAT
COMBINED SOME OF THESE ENCLAVES, SPECIFICALLY IN
THIS TOWN CENTER AREA. AND WE NEGOTIATED IN
FACT, HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH THE COUNTY ON AN
INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT TO ADDRESS THESE ENCLAVES.
AND I BELIEVE 10 ACRES WAS AN IMPORTANT NUMBER IN
TEll.T.
10
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MR. )V]CLElvJORE:
I'M NOT FAMILIAR WIT~ T2AT
14
.n. G R E E Iv; ::.: NT.
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MR. BLAKE:
YOU WERE PART OF IT.
YES, SIR.
16
!'-'JR. MCLEMORE:
I'M GLAD, BUT ~ DON'T
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MR. BLAKE: AND I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER -- I
CAN'T REMEMBER ~~E PAR~ICG~ARS AT ~~IS POINT IN
TIME. I JUST KNOW THF.T IT EXISTS. IT WAS AN
AGREEMENT, AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT, WITH THE
COUNTY THAT IT TAKES CARE OF, OVER TIME, THESE
ENCLAVES AS THEY EXIST. AND I'M WONDERING WHETHER
OR NOT THIS PROPERTY FALLS UNDER THAT INTERLOCAL
AGREEMENT. AND AGAIN, 10 ACRES IS AN IMPORTANT
NUMBER. I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT'S LARGER OR
.
.
.
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1
SMALLER.
2
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, 10 ACRES IS STATUTORY.
3
MR. GARGANESE:
UNDER THE FLORIDA STATUTES,
4
THE ANNEXATION STATUTE, IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE TEE
5
ANNEXATION OF ENCLAVES OF 10 ACRES OR LESS, TEE
6
CITY CAN ENTER INTO AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT WITH
7
THE COUNTY TO ACHIEVE THE ANNEXATION OF THOSE
8
ENCLAVES.
9
MR. BLAKE:
SO IT'S 10 ACRES OR LE:SS.
10
MR. GJl.RGl\NESE:
RIGHT.
I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY
11
ANNEXATION AGREEMEKT.
12
!v:R. MCLE:MORE:
THE: COUNTY POLICY HAS BEEN
- -:<
.l.~
COI\S 2: STENT.
W~EN WE ADDRESSE:D THIS WITH T~EM,
14
TE~~r
D::U
AGREE TJ CHANGE OUR POLICY AT ALL
N' r: 'T'
- '- ~
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EVEN
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MR. 3 LP.KE :
THIS WAS NOT A GPA.
HE DO HAVE:
17
THIS AGREEMENT IN PLACE.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY
18
ELSE REMEMBERS IT OR NOT.
IT'S ABOUT THREE YEARS
19
AGO.
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MR. MCLEMORE: I'LL BE HAPPY TO LOOK IT UP.
21
I KNOW WE WANTED TO. BUT, BASICALLY, THE COUNTY
22
SAID THEIR POLICY WAS THUS, ANu SO THEY WEREN'T
23
CHANGING IT.
24
MR. BLAKE: WE NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT.
I
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DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT PARTICULARS AT THIS TIME,
.
.
.
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1
BUT IT DOES APPEAR AS THOUGH, IF THERE IS AN
2
AGREEMENT IN PLACE, THAT IT WOULD AFFECT THIS
3
PROPERTY.
4
QUESTION, MR. GARGANESE.
IS IT
MR. PARTYKA:
5
POSSIBLE, DURING A BREAK, NOT NECESSARILY NOW --
6
IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET CLARIFICATION ON THAT GPA?
7
MR. BLAKE:
IT'S NOT A GPA.
8
IT'S JUST A BASIC ORDINANCE
MR. PARTYKA:
c
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WIT~ SEMINOLE COUNTY?
10
MR. GARGANESE:
IF THERE'S SUCH AN AGREEMENT,
11
T:::: CITY CLERK IS GOING TO HAVE TO SEfl.RCH THE
l2
ARC::IVES.
1:;
MR. MCLEIvjOKE:
THAT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME
14
TIT'/:2.
15
!viR. BLAKE:
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT.
::'E
MR. P.D:.RTYKA:
IS TEAT IT, COM!\';ISSIOKER?
17
MR. MCGEE:
I EAVE GOT A LAYOUT THAT SHOWS A
18
CO~?L2 BUILDINGS ON IT.
19
MR. BLAKE:
RIGHT ON THAT DESK, THERE'S
20
PROBABLY A LITTLE PENCIL MARK.
WE ACTUALLY EAVE
21
THAT.
I WAS LOOKING MORE FOR ONE THAT SHOWS THE
22
LOTS OF DIVISIONS.
23
AUDIENCE PARTICIPANT:
PROBABLY, FROM THIS
24
POINT TO THE CORNER, RUNNING ALONG TUSKAWILLA,
25
BACK ALONG NATURE'S WAY, THIS IS THE ONDUCK
..
.
.
16
1
PROPERTY, AND THIS IS 434 WESTBOUND.
THIS POINT
2
RIGHT HERE IS THE PACE PROPERTY.
3
MR. BLAKE: A STRAIGHT LINE, BASICALLY.
4
MR. MCGEE: I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF
5
SCURRY GOING AROUND AS TO WHO'S GETTING WHAT
6
GROCER AND WHO'S GETTING WHAT DRUGSTORE.
7
I'M ONE OF THE AREA-PREFERRED WALGREEN'S
8
DEVELOPERS, AND THE CORNER IS GOING INTO
9
WALGREEN'S REAL ESTATE COMMITTEE.
SIMPLY, WHAT
10
WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE PENCILLED IN A BOX, A GROCERY
11
BOX, JUST TO SEE WHAT TYPE OF DENSITY --
12
REASONABLE DENSITY WE CAN GET ON THE SITE.
13
AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
14
IF WE'RE ABLE TO MOVE IN THIS DIRECTION, FROM A
lS
LOGISTIC STANDPOINT, I'VE ALWAYS FAVORED THE
16
SOUTHWEST CORNER.
IT'S THE EVENING DRIVE SIDE
17
GOING -- OR EVENING DRIVE SIDE, WHICH BOTH YOUR
- ~
~o
DRUGSTORE AND GROCERY STORE TENDS TO PREFER.
19
I'D LIKE TO JUST MAKE A COMMENT THAT RON MADE
EARLIER REGARDING THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE WINTER \
20
21
PARK MALL, A WHOLE SEPARATE ENTITY.
IT WAS A
22
SITUATION IN WHICH THEY HAD A HUGE TRACT OF LAND,
23
SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU HAVE ON THE NORTHEAST AND
24
NORTHWEST QUADRANTS, IN WHICH THEY WERE ABLE TO
25
KEEP ALL THAT RETAIL ACTIVITY ENCLOSED WITHIN --
.
.
.
17
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
WITHOUT HAVING PEOPLE CROSSING 17-92. AND I THINK
IN THE INSTANCE YOU'VE GOT HERE, I AM AWARE THAT
D.O.T. DOESN'T HAVE ANY PLANS TO WIDEN 434, BUT
THE RIGHT-OF-WAY'S THERE. BUT YOU'VE GOT A MAJOR
INTERSECTION AT THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION.
AND WITH THE TRAFFIC COUNT BEING
APPROXIMATELY 40,000 VEHICLES PER DAY ON STATE
ROAD 434, THAT WAS BEFORE THEY RECENTLY OPENED UP
THE EASTERN LEG OUT TO THE BELTWAY FOR
TUSKAWILLA. AND THE TRAFFIC COUNTS ON TUSKAWILLA
RIGHT NOW ARE PROBABLY A LITTLE LESS THAN 20,000.
AND, OBVIOUSLY, WHEN THAT ROAD IS IMPROVED, THERE
10
11
12
13
WILL BE A TRE~ENDOUS A~OUNT OF MORE TRAFFIC.
I
1~
KOULD ANTICIPATE, WITHIN 12 MONTHS OF THAT ROAD
OPENING, THAT T2AT TRAFFIC ON TUSKAWILLA HAS GOT
TO JUMP TO 25, TO 28, 30,000 VEHICLES A DAY.
MR. BLAKE: YOU'VE SEEN, I BELIEVE, THE
DRAWINGS THAT ODR CONSDL~ANT TOOK T2E TIME TO PGT
TOGETHER?
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. MCGEE: YES.
I HAVE THE COPIES RIGHT
HERE.
MR. BLAKE: AND YOU STILL FIND THOSE -- THAT
TYPE OF PLAN TO BE OBJECTIONABLE?
MR. MCGEE: IN THIS INSTANCE, BECAUSE I'M
KIND OF DRIVEN WITH WALGREEN'S -- I WAS THE
.
.
.
18
1
DEVELOPER OF THE WALGREEN'S THAT YOU MAY HAVE SEEN
2
ON 17-92 IN MAITLAND IN WHICH WE PUT THE BUILDING
3
UP ON THE ROAD. THAT WAS A SITUATION WHERE,
4
LOGISTICALLY, WE WERE ABLE TO MATCH THE BUILDING,
5
THE PARKING FIELD, WHICH IS SOUTH OF THE BUILDING,
6
AND AN AMPLE AMOUNT OF PARKING ON THE EAST SIDE OF
7
THE PROPERTY.
IT WOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO
8
ACCOMMODATE THE LOADING, WHICH IS ALONG THE NORTH
9
SIDE OF THE BUILDING ON PACKWOOD.
10
AND WALGREEN'S -- THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN
7Ut;'l
........~
11
FRONT LEADER FOR THE DESIGNS AND REDESIGNS OF
12
THESE BUILDINGS WITH THE DOUBLE DRIVE-THRUS, THE
13
CONVENIENCE OF THE PICK-UP FOR PRESCRIPTION
14
DR~GS. TEEY DOK'T PUT CHAISE LOUNGES THROUGH
lS
T~OSE LITTLE PN;U~ATIC TDBES.
16
AND ACTUAL~Y, I THINK WE JUST FOUND OUT TWO
17
WE~KS AGO THAT THIS LAYOUT HERE WILL PROBABLY
18
CHANGE. WALGREEN'S IS LOOKING TO GO TO THE TRI?LE
19
DRIVE-THRU IN WHICH THEY CAN HAVE THE DOUBLE
20
DRIVE-THRU FOR PHARMACEUTICALS, AND THEN THE THIRD
21
LANE FOR PHOTOS. AND SO --
22
MR. BLAKE: NO LIQUOR STORE DRIVE-THRU,
23
THOUGH?
24
MR. MCGEE: NO. WALGREEN'S IS OUT OF THE
25
LIQUOR BUSINESS, FOR THE MOST PART. WITH ALL THE
.
.
.
19
1
NEW STORES, THE LIABILITY AND THE DIFFICULTY WITH
2
BEING ABLE TO GET SOME LIQUOR LICENSES IN CERTAIN
3
AREAS OF FLORIDA, WITH ALL THE NEW FREE-STANDING
4
STORES, IT'S ALL GENERAL MERCHANDISE,
5
PHARMACEUTICALS, AND--
6
MR. BLAKE: OKAY. THOSE ARE ALL MY QUESTIONS.
7
MR. PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT.
COMMISSIONER
8
GENNELL.
o
-'
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: JUST A COUPLE
10
OBSE:RVATIONS.
FOR ONE THING, THAT THING FROM A
11
COUPLE YEARS AGO, THE COUNTY DID REFUSE TO ENTER
12
INTO ANY AGREE:MENT WITH US AND SAIu,
NO, T:iEY LIKE:I
I
I
I
1...5
THEIR PLAN,
IT WORKED FINE: FOR
?!\U THEY
T'B2!~ .
14
WERE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF DOING ANY KIND OF
15
INVOLUNTARY DE-ANNEXATIONS OR ANYT~ING LIKE THAT.
15
THEY JUST WOULDN'T NEGOTIATE WITH US, SO WE WERE
l7
LEFT WITH THEIR OLD PLAN.
18
AND AS FAR AS WHETHER OR NOT ~HIS WOULD BE I
I
COMPATIBLE, BECAUSE THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET I
IS SO BIG AND THIS IS SO SMALL, I WOULD ADVISE YOU!
THAT DOWN ON 17-92, WHERE WINTER PARK MALL IS,
19
20
21
22
WHICH SURELY HAS TO HAVE AS MUCH TRAFFIC OR MORE
23
THAN WE'RE HAVING HERE, PEOPLE ARE CROSSING BACK
24
AND FORTH ON 17-92.
I, MYSELF, GO BACK AND
I
i
ANDI
25
FORTH. STARBUCKS, BORDERS, OLIVE GARDEN, BACK
.
.
.
20
1
FORTH RIGHT ACROSS 17-92 ON FOOT.
I DRIVE DOWN
2
THERE.
I CAN TAKE MY CAR AND DRIVE BACK, BUT I
3
DON'T.
I WALK.
4
AND THE OTHER SIDE IS SMALL.
SO I BELIEVE
5
THAT WHAT WE HAVE IN MIND HERE WILL WORK BASED ON
6
MY OWN EXPERIENCE.
7
THE WALGREEN'S WE HAVE ON 434 ALREADY OVER
8
NEAR 17-92, WHEN THAT OPENED, THE MANAGER TOLD ME
c
-'
THAT HE WAS FLABBERGASTED AT TE~ AMOUNT OF WALK-IN'
10
TRAFFIC THAT HE HAD. SO I THINK TEAT WE'RE GOING
11
IN A RIGHT DIRECTION WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.
12
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. I HAVE THREE QUESTIONS.
- -.
..:..)
I HAVE TEREE QUESTIONS ONL~ JUST
TO G~T IT ALL
2..s:
OUT.
I'M STILL NOT CLEAR ON THE
QU~STION TH.~T
,~
COMMISSIONER BLAKE BADi THAT IS, YOuR THOuGHTS ON
16
THE DOVER PRESENTATIONS TO YOU.
17
NUMBER TWO, WHAT IS YOUR DOWNSIDE IF YOU
:;'8
DON'T GET THIS?
~ c
- -'
AND THREE, IF IT STp.YS TOWN CENTER, IS TEERE
20
A DOWNSIDE? SO, AGAIN, THREE QUESTIONS, AN~ ONE
21
OF THEM IS KIND OF ABOUT THE SAME.
22
MR. MCGEE: THE FIRST QUESTION, THE PLAN TEAT
23
WAS SUBMITTED LOGISTICALLY JUST SIMPLY DOESN'T
24
WORK.
I'VE GOT A HIGH PROBABILITY THAT MY
25
WALGREEN'S SITE WILL GET APPROVED.
I'VE GOT TO BE
.
.
.
21
1
I'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO
ABLE TO PARK IT.
2
LOGISTICALLY GET BUILDINGS AROUND IT.
THEY LOAD
3
IT WITH TRACTOR/TRAILERS. THERE ARE CONSTRAINTS ON
4
THE SITE.
I CAN WORK AROUND SOME THINGS.
5
BUT WITH THE LIMITED AMOUNT OF FRONTAGE I'VE
6
GOT ON 434, WITH THE LIMITED AMOUNT OF FRONTAGE
7
I'VE GOT ON TUSKAWILLA, WHAT I'VE TRIED TO DO WITH
8
MY LAYOUT IS JUST I'VE MOVED BUILDINGS BACK A
9
LITTLE BIT.
10
I DON'T HAVE FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS OUT
11
FRONT.
I'M TAKING AWAY, I THINK, WHAT YOU MIGHT
12
CONSI~~R AN ~YESORE. AND IF I'M ABLE TO DO SOME
13
REASCNABLE THINGS ON THE SITE WITH LAYOUTS AND
14
MAYBE SOM~ B~RV.S AN0 SOME LANDSCAPING AND THINGS,
~~
THEN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH ANNEXATION WITH THE CITY!
15
BECOMES A WORKING RELATIONSHIP.
17
BUT I THINK IN THIS INSTANCE HERE, YOU KNOW,
18
HE'S GOT -- WITH THE AMOUNT OF PARKING HE'S GOT
19
OUT THERE IN FRONT OF PUBLIX, IF THERE WERE A
20
PUBLIX, I JUST DON'T SEE PUBLIX WRITING OFF ON A
21
FOOTPRINT LIKE THAT.
IT'S JUST -- WHAT I FIND IS
22
IN SOME AREAS, IN SOME ISOLATED INSTANCES, THE
23
TOWN CENTER CONCEPT CAN WORK EFFECTIVELY.
24
I DON'T THINK -- I THINK WHAT THEY'VE DONE AT
25
WINTER PARK MALL, I THINK THEY DID A GREAT JOB
.
.
.
22
1
THERE. THEY'VE TAKEN MAJOR ROADS AND THEY'VE MADE
2
IT ALL -- THEY HAVE MADE A HIGHLY DENSE AREA
3
ALREADY, A WELL-TRAFFICKED AREA ALREADY, THEY HAVE
4
DONE A VERY NICE JOB WITH IT.
5
I JUST THINK IN THIS INSTANCE -- I'M NOT
6
AGAINST THE TOWN CENTER CONCEPT, BUT I THINK
THERE'S A HIGHER PROBABILITY OF SUCCESS CONTAININGI
7
8
;
!
I
i
WEE?E YOU'RE ABLE TO GET YOUR FLOW-THROUGH TRAFFIC;
l
I
I
I
I
!
SPEAK ON BEHALF OF TEE SOUTHWEST CORNER -- TO HAVE!
I
I
I
I
I
i
I
I
I
IT AND ISOLATING IT ON TWO OF THE INTERSECTIONS
9
10
AND PEDESTRIAN-FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENTS THAN YOU
11
v.,lOULD HAVING --
TRYING TO HAVE -- YOU KNOW, TO
12
l3
TE::S
TEE PROGRJl.M.
Jl. S P .Zl.R 'T 0 F
l~
rV;R .
PJl.RTYK.c, :
AND THEN YOU TALKED
OKAY.
15
;'.3 OCT
ANY DOWNSIDE IF YOU DON'T GET
IS THERE
16
IT?
17
MR. MCGEE: IF I
J.. 6
MR. PARTYKA: IF YOU DON'T GET YOUR REQUEST.
i C
- ../
YOU'RE REQUESTING NOT TO STAY IN THIS TOWN
20
CENTER.
SO IS THERE A DOWNSIDE TO THAT?
21
MR. MCGEE: WELL
22
MR. PARTYKA: OR AN UPSIDE, WHICHEVER WAY YOU
23
"
WANT TO LOOK AT IT.
24
MR. MCGEE:
I'VE ALWAYS HAD PRETTY GOOD
25
RELATIONSHIPS WITH MUN:CIPALITIES WE'VE BUILT IN.
.
.
.
23
1
WE'VE DEVELOPED THE WALGREEN'S IN OVIEDO. AT THE
TIME, OVIEDO WAS A LITTLE DIFFICULT. WE DID THE
WALGREEN'S IN MAITLAND. THE CITY OF MAITLAND WAS
GOING THROUGH SOME TRANSITION. WE WERE ABLE TO
WORK THROUGH THAT EFFECTIVELY. ORANGE COUNTY, THE
CITY OF ORANGE CITY, WHEN THEY WENT THROUGH THEIR
GATEWAY ORDINANCE CONCEPT.
I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS IF I
CAN'T -- AT LEAST MY INITIAL THRUST IS TO CLEAN UP
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
THE CORNER, GET MY WALGREEN'S PROJECT GOING, THEN
I'M LIMITED WITH THE AMOUNT OF LAND I'VE GOT
11
12
A~CACEKT TO ME.
13
YOU KNOW, THERE'S -- I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S
RIGHT FOR ME OR FOR ANOTHER PROPERTY OWNER, IN
TE:S INSTANCE, TO BE IN A SITUATION WHERE -- I
14
~=
16
J~ST DON'T THINK I SHOULD BE PART OF THIS
17
?E~ESTRIAN-FRIENDLY ENVIRONMENT, RECOGNIZING THAT
~HE~E'S THIS GREAT OPPORTUNITY ON THE NORTHEAST
ANJ NORTHWEST CORNER. AND I JUST THINK,
LOGISTICALLY, WITH SPLITTING AND BIFURCATING THIS
INTERSECTION WITH A COUPLE MAJOR ROADS, FRANKLY, I
DON'T THINK IT LENDS ITSELF TO BEING IN THE TOWN
CENTER.
I'M MORE THAN HAPPY TO WORK WITH THE CITY.
AND WHEN I HAD MY FIRST PRE-AP WITH CHARLES AND
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
.
.
.
24
1
HIS STAFF, YOU KNOW, TOWARDS THE END, WE TALKED
2
ABOUT SOME OF THESE ISSUES RELATIVE TO -- YOU
3
I DIDN'T HAVE
KNOW, CHARLES WAS HAPPY.
4
OUT PARCELS OUT THERE OR FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS.
5
AND RON EVEN INDICATED THAT, YOU KNOW, HE WAS
6
HAPPY TO SEE THAT I'M CLEANING UP THE HANDY-WAY
7
LOCATION.
8
TO ME, IT WOULD SEEM THE PATH OF LEAST
9
RESISTANCE WOULD BE ANNEXING INTO THE CITY.
THE
10
WATER, I BELIEVE, IS ADJACENT TO THE SITE.
I'VE
11
GOT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I'M GOING TO DO WITH THE
12
SEWER, BECAUSE IT APPEARS THE CLOSEST SEWER LINE
13
IS PR03ABLY SOMEW~ERE DOWN NEAR TROUTWOOD AVENUE,
14
WHICH IS 3,500, 4,000 FEET AWAY.
YOU KNOW, IT'S
" -
~~
JUST A LIFT STATION AND A LOT OF FORCE MAIN.
1 r
_0
BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH THE
17
CITY TO BE ABLE TO GET THE KIND OF PROJECT
16
TOGETHER THAT THE CITY'S HAPPY WITH.
IT MAY NOT
19
BE THE TOWN CENTER ON THE NORTH SID3 OF THE ROAD,
20
BUT IT CERTAINLY ISN'T -- I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING
21
TO BE SOMETHING THAT THE CITY WOULD FEEL BAD
22
ABOUT, CONSIDERING I'M GOING UP AND I'M CLEANING
23
UP AN EYESORE THAT EXISTS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.
24
MR. PARTYKA:
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
25
CITY MANAGER, DO YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING
.
.
.
25
1
NOW? COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ HAS HIS LIGHT ON.
2
MR. MCLEMORE:
I'LL GO AFTER THE
3
COMMISSIONER.
4
MR. PARTYKA:
OKAY.
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
5
MR. MARTINEZ:
I JUST WANTED TO ASK HIM. HE
6
SAID THAT THIS IS A TREE CITY, USA.
OVER WHERE
7
THE WALGREEN'S IS IN MAITLAND IS CEMENT AND
8
BLACKTOP. AND WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL PROJECT HERE,
9
WHICH HAS BEEN CAREFULLY DESIGNED TO IMPROVE TEE
10
LEVEL OF AESTHETICS IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA.
11
AND WE ARE DISCUSSING A CERTAIN POINT IN THE
l ~
_L.
TOWN CENTER, WHICH IS TANTAMOUNT TO THE HEART AND
13
LUKGS OF THE TOWN CENTER.
IT'S RIGHT AT THE VERY
14
HEART OF WHERE THIS TOWN CENTER DEVELOPMENT IS
~~
SUPPOSED TO BE.
I JUST WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST TEAT
- r
.L c
THIS COMMISSION WEIGH THE CONSEQUENCES WHEN THEY
17
MAKE A DECISION ON THIS ISSUE, BECAUSE WE SPENT A
18
LOT OF TAXPAYERS' MONEY TO DEVELOP THIS TOWN
19
CENTER CONCEPT, AND THE CITY STAFF AND US HERE
20
HAVE WORKED VERY, VERY HARD TO BRING THIS ABOUT.
21
AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD START WAIVING TOWN
22
CENTER SECTIONS AT THIS TIME OF THIS PROCESS WHERE
23
WE'RE GETTING CLOSER, VERY MUCH CLOSER, TO
24
APPROVING A CODE FOR THE TOWN CENTER AREA.
THANK
25
YOU.
.
.
.
26
1
MR. PARTYKA:
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
2
COMMISSIONER GENNELL.
THEN WE'LL LET
OKAY.
3
THE CITY MANAGER SPEAK, UNLESS YOU WANT TO HEAR
4
THE CITY MANAGER.
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GeNNELL:
IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY
6
DIFFERENCE.
I'M PREPARED TO MAKE A MOTION IF
7
EVERYBODY'S DONE TALKING.
8
M:K. PARTYKA:
I THINK THE CITY MANAGER WANTS
9
TO SPEAK ON THIS, AND THEN
10
M:K. MCLEMORE:
WELL, AGAIN, ANYBODY THAT
11
WORKS WITH JOE FOR A WHILE KNOWS HE'S A VERY
12
STRAIG~T?ORWARD AND SINCERE INDIVIDUAL.
p"'"
.. J:.
13
BELIEVES IN THIS PROJECT.
I DON'T ~EINK IT FITS
1i,
YCCR I~TENT OF WEERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO.
r~'!~~'O 1:"' r-ru:;,i
V\ ..._.......~ _ ......-.J!
15
CO)'.~rv;UNITY WANTS TO GO. I'D LOVE TO WORK WITH JOE I
ON PLACING WALGREEN'S ON THAT CORNER AND CLEANING I
UP THAT CORNER, LOVE TO WORK WITH HIM ON DOING THEI
I
TOViN C~NT~R DEVELOPMENT ON THAT CORNER. I
i
I
16
17
1 e
19
BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW HE-- YOU'VE GOT THREE
20
OTHER PLAYERS AND LANDOWNERS/DEVELOPERS WHO ARE
21
ALREADY INVOLVED IN THIS PROJECT, AT LEAST ONE OF
22
WHICH -- I CAN'T SAY A THIRD, BUT I THINK PROBABLY
23
A THIRD, WHO ALSO IS TALKING WITH WALGREEN'S.
ANDI
24
I SUSPECT THE THIRD ONE IS. AND THIS IS ONE OF AT
25
LEAST TWO, PROBABLY THREE, OF WALGREEN'S OPTIONS.
.
.
.
27
1
THE POINT OF IT IS YOU HAVE, AGAIN, AN
2
ANNEXATION DIRECTLY BEHIND THIS WITH A DEVELOPER
3
WHO WANTS TO BRING IN HIGH DENSITY TOWNHOUSES
4
EXACTLY THE WAY THEY'RE PERCEIVED AND PROVIDED FOR
5
IN YOUR CODE. THIS WOULD BE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE
6
OF THAT.
IT'S JUST NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE'RE
7
TRYING TO DO. AND I URGE YOU AGAIN --
8
MR. BLAKE:
POINT OF ORDER. WE HAVEN'T
9
DISCUSSED THAT AGENDA ITEM YET, AND TH.Zl.T H.Zl.S, IN
10
NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, TAKEN PLACE.
I DON'T
11
THINK WE SHOULD DISCUSS THE PROPERTY NEXT TO IT.
12
MR. MCLEMORE: OH, I THINK YOU I\'EED TO KNOW
13
EXACTLY WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE, SO YOU ~AKE
l~
THIS DECISION --
13
MR. BLAKE: WE ALREADY HAVE THE AGENDA
- r
1 '=
PACKETS TO KNOW WHAT'S PROPOSED. BUT TO SUGGEST
1. 7
THAT WE MAKE A DECISION ON THIS REQUEST BASED ON
:;"8
WEAT MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR ON SOME OTEER PROPERTY
19
IN THE FUTURE, I THINK TEAT'S NOT EVEN THE CITY,
20
IS v-mONG.
I JUST DON'T THINK THAT SHOULD BE PART
21
OF THE ARGUMENT.
22
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, WE DISAGREE ON THAT.
23
THE COMMISSION CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT TO, BUT
24
THAT'S MY POINT.
I DON'T THINK I NEED TO SAY
25
ANYTHING ELSE AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
.
.
.
28
1
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER GENNELL, A
2
MOTION IS IN ORDER IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE IT.
3
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YES, MR. MAYOR.
I
4
WELCOME YOUR APPLICATION, YOU KNOW, TO WORK IN THE
5
CITY AND TO DEAL WITH US. AND INSOFAR AS IT
6
CAN -- AS YOU CAN DEVELOP WITHIN THE TOWN CENTER
7
GUIDELINES, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO, REALLY.
8
BUT I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION AT THIS TIME
9
TO DENY THIS APPLICATION.
10
MR. BLAKE: SECOND.
11
MR. PARTYKA: ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? CALL
12
THE VOTE.
, ..,
...:.,..:5
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
14
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
15
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
16
MR. MIDLER: AYE.
17
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
18
MR. MCLEOD: AYE.
19
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
20
MR. MARTINEZ: AYE.
21
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
22
MR. BLAKE: AYE.
23
MR. PARTYKA: MR. MCLEMORE, WHAT CAN
24
MR. MCGEE DO AT THIS POINT IN TIME?
25
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, WHAT HE CAN DO IS TO
.
.
.
29
1
COME UP WITH A PLAN THAT MEETS YOUR TOWN CENTER
2
GUIDELINES, ONE THAT WE CAN SIT DOWN AND WORK WITH
3
THAT MEETS THE INTENT OF IT. AND IF IT DOESN'T
4
WORK WITH THE GROCERY STORE, AND MAYBE WE CAN DO
5
THE WALGREEN'S -- BUT AS LONG AS HE'S WITHIN YOUR
6
POLICY DIRECTION OF WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GO, WE
7
WOULD LOVE TO WORK WITH HIM.
IF THAT'S NOT
8
POSSIBLE, TEEN I DON'T THINK IT CAN BE DONE.
9
MR. PARTYKA:
IS THERE ANY VALUE TO HAVING
10
DISCUSSIONS WITH HIM SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID WITH I
I
PUBLIX? I
I
MR. MCLEMORE: I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO TALKI
TO HIM TO ANY EXTENT THAT WE CAN. AND IF HE CAN I
I
i
PREVAIL ON PUBLIX TO PUT THAT IN THE PDI SITE OR I
!
11
12
13
14
1 -
-~
CHOSEN SITE BY --
16
MR. PARTYKA: NO. NO.
SIMILAR DISCUSSIONS.
17
IN OTHER WORDS, HE MAY WANT TO BRING IN PEOPLE
18
FROM WALGREEN'S OR WHATEVER TO DISCUSS
19
MR. MCLEMORE: SURE. ABSOLUTELY.
20
MR. PARTYKA: -- ANYTHING.
21
MR. MCLEMORE: ABSOLUTELY. AND AS I
22
EXPLAINED TO HIM, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
23
REASONS WHY THE CITY WOULD WANT TO WORK WITH HIM
24
IN CLEANING UP THAT CORNER.
25
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY.
.
.
.
30
1
THANK YOU.
MR. MCGEE:
2
THANK YOU, MR. MCGEE.
I
MR. PARTYKA:
3
APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS.
4
MR. MCLEMORE: MAYOR.
5
MR. PARTYKA: OH, MR. MCLEOD, COMMISSIONER.
6
I HAVE A QUESTION HERE.
ARE WE
MR. MCLEOD:
7
SAYING HERE A WALGREEN'S WOULD WORK ON THE CORNER,
8
BUT A -- I DON'T THINK WE'VE SAID -- BUT A GROCERY
9
STORE DOESN'T?
10
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
NO.
11
MR. MCLEOD:
SO BASICALLY, I MEAN, HE COULD
12
3R=~G T~IS PLAN FORWARD.
13
MR.
MC::"'EMORE:
COULD.
SUrtE
T'" ~
r:.t.:
14
MR. MCL20D:
A::"'L WE'RE SAYING IS WE'RE
13
DENYING YOUR APPLICATION TO BE WITHDRAWN FROM THE
- r
1.0
TOWN CENTER ITSELF.
17
MR. MCGEE:
I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MAKE A
:. 2.
COJv:!v:EKT.
W~EN ROK MEKTIONED WALGREEN'S OK TWO OR
19
THREE OTHER CORNERS -- I DEVELOP FOR WALGREEN'S
20
AND I'VE GOT A COMMITTEE DATE SET, NO MATTER WHAT
21
OTHER DEVELOPERS ARE TALKING TO RON OR CHARLES.
22
RELATIVE TO WHAT THEY THINK THAT THEY MIGHT
23
HAVE, I THINK RON AND CHARLES BOTH WILL TELL YOU,
24
I SEEM TO BE VERY UPFRONT AND VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD
23
WITH MY COMV:UNICATION AND WHAT I'M DOING.
I DON' TI
.
.
.
31
1
PLAY THE GAMES OF SAYING ONE THING AND REALLY
2
MEANING SOMETHING ELSE.
3
AND VERY SHORTLY, MY SITE GOES INTO COMMITTEE
4
FOR Wll.LGREEN' S .
THERE'S NO WAY I CAN LAY A
5
WALGREEN'S PROJECT OUT ACCORDING TO THE WAY THAT
6
VICTOR DOVER LAID IT OUT.
7
BUT IF I Cll.N
IF WE GET TO T~E POINT WHERE
8
WE DECIDE WE WANT TO ANNEX INTO THE CITY, I THINK
9
WE CAN PROBABLY WORK SOMETHING OUT THAT WILL AT
10
LEAST JUMP-START -- CLEAN UP THE CORNER AND, YOU
11
KNOW, SEE IF WE CAN GET A COMPATIBLE WORKING
12
RELATIONSHIP GOING ON WIT~ THE CITY.
13
f\m. PA?,TYKll.:
OKJ:..Y.
VERY GOOD.
THANK YOU.
14
THANK YOU VERY MU:H.
15
Ivj R. M C GEE :
Trip.l\K Y'JU.
. ,..
.l.O
MR. P.ZiRTYKA:
o Kp. Y .
COMMISSIONER GENNELL.
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENKELL:
YES, JUST FOR
18
CLA~I?ICATION -- JuST FO~ CLA~IFICA~ION. I DON'T
19
THINK THAT IT'S TEE INTENTION OF THIS COMMISSION
20
T~AT A PLAN YOU MIGHT BRING FORWARD WOULD HAVE TO
21
FIT INTO EXACT MARGINS OF SOMETHING VICTOR DOVER
22
DRE\\T .
23
MR. MCGEE:
THANK YOU.
I
I
ASK THE REST OF!
24
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
OKAY.
25
THE COMMISSION.
I'M JUST SPEAKING
.
10
11
12
.
1 -:.
14
15
::..6
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.
25
32
1
MR. PARTYKA:
NO. THAT'S CORRECT.
2
I AGREE.
MR. BLAKE:
3
THANK YOU.
MR. MCGEE:
4
MR. PARTYKA:
OKAY.
THANK YOU, MR. MCGEE,
5
FOR COMING OUT.
6
ALL RIGHT. AT THIS POINT IN TIME, AGENDA
7
liB, 11 CITY MANAGER REQUESTING THE CITY COMMISSION
8
TO APPROVE AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN SCHRIMSHER
9
PROPERTIES AND THE CITY RELATIVE TO THE TOWN
CENTER.
MR. MCLEMORE, HOW DO YOU WANT TO HANDLE
THIS?
/""l"":~,!-,--,
IS A REQ~EST TO TAKE A BREAK NOW.
I
I
SHALL WE TAKE A BREAK OF TEN MINUTES? ALL RIGHT. I
I
(WHEREUPON, A RECESS WAS TAKEN FROM 8:45 TO 9:00 P.M.) !
MR. PARTYKA: COMMISSIONERS, I'D LIKE YOU ALLI
I
!
L J:;" 'T' I c:;
...., - ~
TAKE TEN MINUTES.
CO~E BACK AT FIVE OF.
TO
CO!VlE
BACK.
I I ~
LIKE
TO CALL THIS COMMISSION
MEETING BACK TO ORDER.
OKAY.
CITY MANAGER REQUESTS THE CITY
COMMISSION TO APPROVE AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE
SCHRIMSHER PROPERTIES AND THE CITY RELATIVE TO THE!
TOWN CENTER.
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO HANDLE THIS?
MR. MCLEMORE:
I'D LIKE TO COVER A COUPLE
.
.
.
33
1
ITEMS WITH YOU VERY QUICKLY, AND TH~N I THINK THE
2
SCHRIMSHER REPRESENTATIVES WILL COME UP AND
3
CLARIFY THEIR POSITION ON THE ISSUES, AND THEN
4
WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
5
MR. PARTYKA:
OKAY.
6
MR. MCLEMORE:
YOU HAD REQUESTED -- LET'S GO
7
BACK AND LOOK AT NUMBERS RELATIVE TO PROJECTIONS
8
OF COST, WHICH WE DID ON THIS ITEM, WHICH HAS, AT
9
THE TOP, DEDICATIONS TO CITY.
THIS IS AN ITEM
10
TEAT WE HAD HANDED OUT SEVERAL WEEKS AGO.
WE
11
DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH THE BOTTOM SINCE THE
12
SCHRIMSHERS AGREED ALL THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY
--'
F.CCGRF. TE .
::"4
DO YOU HAVE THIS?
I
F.C?REED I
I
I
KIDDING.I
...:..:J
!'/oR. GRINDSTAFF:
I DON'T THINK
W~'V~
~-=
~O AKYTHING IS ABSOLUTELY ACCURATE.
CUST
17
MR. MCLEMORE:
ON THE DEDICATION TO TH~ CITY,
:. s
WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THOSE NUMBERS AGAIN,
19
BASED ON THE PROJECTIONS WE MADE.
W2 DON'T SEE
20
ANY NEED TO CHANGE THESE AT THIS POINT IN TIME
21
BEYOND THE NUMBERS THAT ARE ON THERE.
v,,THICH I
22
BELIEVE, KIP, THEY'RE THE SAME AS BEFORE, THE
23
V.Zl.LUES?
24
IF I COULD TAKE YOU OVER TO THE MEMORANDUM AS
25
OF TODAY, ALSO, I THINK THE SCHRIMSHER PROPERTY
.
.
.
34
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
HAS-- I WANT TO CORRECT A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT
WERE MISUNDERSTOOD BY US. IF YOU GO DOWN TO THE
COUNTERPROPOSAL BY SCHRIMSHER ON ITEM 1, THE
REALIGNMENT OF PAVED SECTION, .83 ACRES, I THINK
THAT'S RELEVANT DISCUSSION FOR TONIGHT.
THE ELIMINATION OF PARKS. I THINK IT'S BEEN
CLARIFIED THAT THE ONLY PART THAT WE NEED TO TALK
ABOUT -- THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ELIMINATING WAS THE
LITTLE TRIANGLE.
IS THAT PART 3, KIP? I DON'T HAVE THE
DOCUMENT IN FRONT OF ME.
10
11
12
MR. LOCKCD?F: YES.
13
MR. MC~EMORE: SO PART 4 AND PART 5 ARE OFF
l~
THE TA3LE FOR DISCUSSIONS. THEY DO DESIRE TO
15
BRING FORTH A DISCUSSION OF ANOTHER PIECE OF
16
GROUND TEAT WAS INVOLVED IN THE TWO-TO-ONE SWAP.
17
16
IT WAS NOT ON YOUR TA3LE. THIS WAS A PARK.
I
THINK IT WAS LISTED AS A GREEN SPACE PARK.
19
PARDON ME?
MR. PARTYKA:
IS THERE A MAP? CAN WE HAVE A
20
21
22
23
24
25
MAP?
MR. MCLEMORE: YES. WE'RE GOING TO PUT THAT
ON THE SCREEN FOR YOU. BUT IT WAS NOT ONE OF THE
ORIGINAL SIX PARKS THAT WE HAD ALIGNED.
THE TWO-TO-ONE SWAP.
IT WAS IN
.
.
.
1
MR. PARTYKA: PUT THOSE DOWN, IN FACT.
35
MR. MCLEMORE: LAKE TRAIL IS NOT ON THE
,
DO CUMENT I HAVE. i
MR, GRINDSTAFF, THAT WOULD GO TO THE STATE, I
i
THAT WOULD BE PART Or THE TWO-FOR-ONE SWAP, IS THE'
2
MR. MCLEMORE: AND THE TITLE IS LAKE PARK.
3
SO LAKE TRAIL PARK NEEDS TO GO BACK IN UNDER
4
DISCUSSION ITEM.
5
MR. PARTYKA: WE NEED PICTURES.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY.
IF YOU'D POINT OUT
7
TRAIL PARK. GO AHEAD. SURE.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE PROPOSED LAKE TRAIL
9
IS RIGHT HERE.
10
!v'jR. !-;'CLE!v'jORE:
SO THAT'S BACK UP FOR
11
DISCUSSION. AGAIN, IT WAS NOT ONE OF THE SIX
12
PARKS, BGT IT WAS PART OF THE TWO-TO-ONE SWAP IN
- '"'
.1.:>
(INA~~IBLE) AREA OF THE CONSERVATION AREA AND AN
14
AREA TO HAVE A NICE VIEW OF THE -- EXCUSE ~E --
15
THE WETLANDS AND THE LOWLANDS JUST EAST OF THE
16
TOvIN CENTER.
j 7
MR. MARTINEZ: WHAT IS THE ACREAGE AND THE
18
VALUE TEERE?
19
MR. MCLEMORE: OF WHICH ONE?
20
MR. MARTINEZ: THE ONE YOU JUST MENTICNED,
21
LAKE TRAIL.
22
23
24
25
I
I
LAKEI
I
I
PARKI
I
I
I
I
I
Ori
I
!
!
I
I
I
I
36
.
1
SUGGESTION. AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS -- EXCUSE ME,
2
MR. MCLEMORE.
3
MR. MCLEMORE:
OKAY.
WE HAVE THE ACREAGE ON
4
IT, CHARLES. WOULD YOU LOOK ON YOUR MAP?
5
MR. PARTYKA:
COULD WE USE THE MIKES HERE,
6
BECAUSE -- JUST GRAB IT AND HOLD ON TO IT.
OKAY?
7
MR. MCLEOD:
CITY MANAGER,
IS THAT ONE
OF THEI
I
8
ABCDEFG'S OF THE PARKS MISCELLANEOUS, OR WHAT IS
9
ON THE CIRCLE OF THAT MAP UP THERE?
IS THp. T A
10
NUMBER OR LETTER OR WHAT?
11
MR. MCLEMORE:
THOSE ON THAT M.Z\.P, I BELIEVE,
12
ARE LETTERS.
.
:::. 3 I
!,>;R. GP.RG.Z\.KESE:
LOOKS LIKE "K."
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
I THINK IT IS.
I T~INK THE
15
IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE IS THAT THAT WAS PART OF
16
THE TRAIL, THE TRAIL REALIGNMENT, AND THE
17
RELOCATION.
18
FOR THE RECORD, MR. MAYOR, MY ~AME'S MIC~AEL
19
GRIN::lSTAFF.
I'M INVOLVED WITH SHUTTS & BOWEN.
I
20
REPRESENT THE SCHRIMSHER FAMILY.
WE'RE AT 20
21
NORTH ORANGE AVENUE, SUITE 1000, ORLANDO.
22
TO HELP CLARIFY THIS TRAIL LAKE THING, RON --
23
MR. MCLEMORE:
WELL, LET ME GET THE ACREAGE.
24
THE QUESTION WAS HOW MANY ACRES WAS IT.
.
25
AND KIP, I CAN'T SEE IT ON THE MAP HERE.
BUT
.
.
.
37
1
IT SHOULD BE ON THIS MAP THAT CHARLES IS IN FRONT
2
OF, THE LAKE TRAIL PARK.
3
MR. CARRINGTON: IS IT THAT PIECEj 1.6 ACRES?
4
MR. MCLEMORE: NOW, WE WERE NOT PREPARED TO
5
TALK ABOUT THIS TONIGHT, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW IT
6
WAS AN ISSUE UNTIL WE HAD A CHANCE TO CONFER HERE
7
A LITTLE EARLIER.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND WE'VE GOTTEN
9
CLARIFICATION WITH THE OFFICE OF GR~ENWAYS AND
10
TRAILS AS LATE AS LAST TUESDAY.
THEY ISSUED A
11
LETTER TO THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS TODAY.
12
COMMISSIONER CARRINGTON, I'M SUR~ IT'S IN
:1.3
YOUR PACKAGE. IT'S B~EN CIRCULATED TO YOU. THAT
14
REALLY IS NOT PART OF THIS, Q00TE, SWAP OR T~E
15
PAYMENT FOR -- IT'S NOT PART OF THE DOLLAR
- r
. ~,
CALCULATION, BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF THE TRAIL.
17
MR. MCLEMORE:
RIGHT.
THIS INVOLVED THE
18
AGREEMENTS BETWEEN SCHRIMSHER PROPERTIES AND T?E
19
STATE, NOT SCHRIMSHER PROPERTIES AND THE CITY.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
RIGHT. AND IT'S A VERY
21
SIMPLE EXPLANATION AS TO WHY THE FIGURE OF THAT ~S
22
BEING ALTEREDj VERY, VERY SIMPLE.
I
I
MICKEY'I
I
,
23
MR. MCLEMORE:
BEFORE YOU GO FORWARD,
24
LET ME ASK THE COMMISSION IF THEY HAVE ANY
25
QUESTIONS ON JUST WHAT I STARTED RELEVANT TO THE
.
.
.
38
1
INFORMATION BEFORE WE START YOUR DISCUSSION.
IT
2
MAY HELP YOUR DISCUSSION.
3
AGAIN, WHAT YOU HAD ASKED FOR IN TERMS OF
4
VALUES OR IMPROVEMENTS IS ON THE DOCUMENT THAT HAS
5
DEDICATION TO THE CITY UP TOP, IT DOES NOT INCLUDE
6
LAKE TRAIL PARK BECAUSE IT WAS NOT ONE OF THE
7
NEGOTIATING ITEMS BETWEEN THE CITY AND SCHRIMSHER.
8
MR. MARTINEZ:
CITY MANAGER, IF YOU/VE
9
INCLUDED THE LAKE TRAIL PARK AS "K," WOULD YOU BE
10
ELIMINATING ANYONE FROM "A" TO "J"?
11
MR. MCLEMORE: THE ONLY -- "A" THROUGH "J"?
12
~R. MARTINEZ: YES.
13
~R. MCLEMORE: LET'S SEE. THE ?ROBLEM IS ON
14
THAT MAP, THEY'RE LETTERED. WELL, ON KIp/S,
15
THEY'RE LETTERS. AND ON THE OTHER MAP, THEY/RE
16
NU!'-';3ERS.
SO LET ME CORRELATE THEM VERY QUICKLY.
17
MR. MCLEOD:
I THINK PF.RK 3 IS "F," PARK 4 IS
18
"D," F.ND PARK 5 IS ".n..."
19
MR. LOCKCUFF: THAT'S CORRECT.
20
MR. MCLEMORE: SO THE ONE IN DISCUSSION ON
21
DEDICATION TO THE CITY IS "F." IN MY MEMORANDUM,
22
IT'S 3, PARK 3. SO THAT WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT
23
AND WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT LAKE TRAIL PARK/
24
WHICH IS ON NEITHER OF THESE.
25
ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VALUES OF
.
.
.
39
1
ACREAGES OR THE VALUES OF IMPROVEMENTS? AND
2
AGAIN, THESE ARE NOT NECESSARILY UP-TO-DATE
3
APPRAISED VALUES.
THEY'RE BEST GUESSTIMATES,
4
INTERPOLATIONS, THAT TYPE OF THING.
ON THE
5
IMPROVEMENTS, WE BELIEVE THOSE ARE GOOD -- VERY
6
GOOD ESTIMATES.
7
ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE MICKEY GETS STARTED?
8
MR. MARTINEZ:
HOW ABOUT LAKE TRAIL PARK?
9
WHAT'S THE VALUE?
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
THAT GOES TO THE STATE.
11
MR. MARTINEZ: I UNDERSTAND.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S PART OF THE
13
EXC::.!l.I\'G3. IF I COULD SHOW WHERE TH.!l.T - - \\iEY IT'S I
C2ANGING, I THIKK IT WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL.
14
15
!\~R. MCLEMO:KE:
SO BEFORE, ANY QUESTIONS ON
2.6
ANYTHING ELSE?
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
YES.
I JUST WANT TO
l "
_0
CLJ:..?IFY.
IS TH2?E ANY DISPUTE OVER THESE FIGURES
. 0
.1.../
ON EERE? OKAY.
20
MR. LOCKCUFF:
YES.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
THANK YOU.
OKAY.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
SHE'S
THERE'S A DISPUTE.
23
TALKING ABOUT THESE FIGURES.
WE DID NOT COME
24
PREPARED TO ZERO IN ON THESE FIGURES.
WHATEVER WE
25
HAD COMMENTS ON AT THE LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED THIS
.
.
.
40
1
WOULD BE THE SAME COMMENTS.
2
I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED
3
GENERAL VALUES WITH OUR ENGINEER, MR. FLORIO, WHO
4
YOU ALL KNOW. AND THE BIG QUESTION WAS, WAS WHAT
5
WAS BEING TRADED OF EQUAL OR GREATER VALUE FOR
6
WHAT WAS BEING EXCHANGED OR GRANTED BY THE OTHER
7
SIDE? WE'VE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE ARE
8
COMFORTABLE WITH THOSE NUMBERS. AND THERE WAS
9
SO~E THAT COULD BE HIGH. THERE'S SOME THAT COULD
10
BE LOW. BUT FOR THE MOST PART, WE'RE COMFORTABLE
11
WT~~ THOSE NUMBERS.
12
DE?UTY MAYOR GENNELL: THANK YOU.
l3
MR. P.A.RTYK.A.:
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD, DO YOU
1';
WANT TO SAY SOMETHING?
15
MR. MCLEOD:
I WOULD SAY THAT -- NO.
.. r
.. 0
~R. MCLEMORE:
I THINK WITH T~AT HAND,
17
MR. M.A.YOR, IF YOU WILL LET MICKEY --
i..c
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
I WILL LET M:KE SC~RI~SHER
19
TALK IN JUST A SECOND, BECAUSE HE ?ROBABLY HAS
20
SOMETHING HE WANTS TO COMMENT ON THOSE NUM3ERS.
21
WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT.
22
BUT FIRST, JUST TO -- ALSO, IN A LITTLE WAY
23
OF HOCSEKEE?ING LIKE WAS DONE THERE, I NEED TO
24
SUBMIT, FOR THE RECORD, AS WAS AGREED A YEAR AND A
25
HALF AGO OR SO WHEN WE STARTED THIS THING, COPIES
.
.
.
41
1
OF THE TRANSCRIPTS THAT HAVE BEEN RECORDED FOR
2
EVERY MEETING.
3
AS YOU KNOW, WE'VE HANDED VOLUMES AS WE'VE
4
COME ALONG. WE'RE THROUGH VOLUME III.
I'D LIKE
5
TO SUBMIT, FOR THE RECORD TONIGHT, TO EACH OF YOU,
6
A COPY OF VOLUME IV OF THE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND/OR
7
WORKSHOPS OF THIS MATTER CONSISTING OF THE CITY
8
COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING MINUTES -- REGULAR
9
MEET!NG TRANSCRIPT OF OCTOBER THE 11TH, 1999; CITY
10
COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING TRANSCRIPT, OCTOBER 25,
11
1999; CITY COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING OF NOVEMBER
12
8, 1999; CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP AND REGULAR
; ~
~~
MEET:NG OF DECEMBER 13, 1999, AND THE COMMISSION
14
VEETING REGULAR MEETING TRAKSCRIPT OF FEBRUARY
lj
14, 2000.
16
TO THE EXTENT I SAID MINUTES, I MEANT TO SAY
17
TRANSCRIPTS.
SO I WOULD GIVE ONE OF THOSE TO THE
18
CITY ATTORNEY, TO THE CITY CLERK, AND I HAVE ONE
19
FOR EACH OF YOUR READING PLEASURE AT A LATER DATE.
20
MR. PARTYKA: YOU CAN LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE IF
21
YOU WANT. THANKS.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THANK YOU. NOW, AS WE WERE
23
TALKING DURING THE BREAK ABOUT A COUPLE OF THINGS,
24
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF PROGRESS MADE, AS YOU ALL
25
KNOW.
I'D LIKE TO GO INTO SOME CLARIFICATION ON
.
.
.
42
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
THIS TRAIL LAKE PARK, BECAUSE THERE WAS SOME
QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VALUE.
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ, IN PARTICULAR, YOUR
QUESTION ABOUT THE VALUE, IT'S RELEVANT, BUT
IT'S -- IT HAS TO DO FOR THE TWO-TO-ONE SWAP. AS
YOU KNOW, THE STATE WILL BE VACATING THIS PORTION
OF THE TRAIL, THE EXISTING TRAIL, ROUGHLY, IN
EXCHANGE FOR A REALIGNMENT OF THE TRAIL.
AND AS PART OF THAT REALIGNMENT, THE GENERAL
RULE IS THERE MUST BE A TWO-TO-ONE SWAP FOR
ACREAGE, MEANING THAT THE SCHRIMSHERS MUST GIVE UP
TWO ACRES FOR EVERY ONE ACRE THAT THEY RECEIVE
11
12
13
FROM T~E STATE. AND THAT ACREAGE SWAP MUST BE
14
EQGAL OR GREATER VALUE TO THE STATE.
15
SO THIS IS THE OLD. AND THE NEW IS GOING TO
16
CO~E THIS WAY. AN~ WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS DOTTED
LIKE, BECAUSE WE PROPOSED THAT IN TALLAHASSEE LAST
17
18
19
20
WE~K, AKD THEY'VE SIGNED OFF ON IT.
I? YOU LOOKEDI
AT YO~R LETTER DATED TODAY, YOU'LL SEE THAT.
WOULD BE THE TRAIL.
AND THEN THE UNPAVED PORTION OF THE TRAIL,
YOU MAY RECALL ON VALENTINE'S DAY, THOSE THAT WERE
HERE, WE TALKED ABOUT THE UNPAVED PORTION OF THE
TRAIL AND THE HORSE RIDERS AND ALL THAT SORT OF
THIS
21
22
23
24
25
~HING. THE UNPAVED PORTION OF THE TRAIL WOULD
.
.
.
43
1
COME UP THIS WAY.
2
WELL, IN THE ORIGINAL CALCULATIONS WITH THOSE
3
TWO LOCATIONS, WE DIDN'T MEET THE TWO-TO-ONE RATIO
4
TEST, SO THEY FATTENED IT UP UP HERE.
AND
5
FRANKLY, I DON'T KNOW WHO DID THAT OR HOW THAT
6
I
I
I
I
I
I
i
I
i
I
I
I
I
i
i
!
I
I
I
I
ONE IS WE WANTED TO __I
I
I
WE KEQUESTED IF WE COULD MOVE THIS PORTION OF TEE I
T~A=~, THE PAVED PORTION OF THE TRAIL, FROM HERE I
I
I
HAPPENED, BUT IT WAS FATTENED UP RIGHT IN
HERE,
7
AND THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THIS BIG CHUNK OF GREEN
8
TE2~E.
9
WELL,
THE BIG CHUNK OF GREEN THEN GETS
10
INCLUDED INTO THE TOWN CENTER PLAN, AND PEOPLE
11
ARE -- THERE'S AN EXPECTATION THAT IT'S GOING TO
12
3E T~ERE.
IT'S
NOT ONE OF THESE MINI PARKS
BUT
i ~
-~
T~AT IS --
TEAT YOU EAVE BEEN EVALUATING YOU~
VA~~E ~OR YOUR EXCHANGE VALUE.
15
WHAT WE WERE IN TALLAHASSEE FOR LAST WEEK
16
WE~E TWO PRIMARY CONCERNS.
17
18
1 ~
-~
UP TO EERE ON THIS BLUE DOTTED LINE.
20
AND OF EQUAL SIGNIFICANCE, WE WERE WORRIED
21
ABOUT THESE LITTLE, ISOLATED WETLANDS.
IF YOU
22
WILL SEE, VERY CAREFULLY, UPLANDS -- ISOLATED
23
UPLANDS HERE ON THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE TRAIL.
24
THEY WERE BEING SEPARATED FROM THE REST OF TEE
25
S:HRIMSHER PROPERTY AND OF NO USE TO ANYONE FOR
.
.
.
44
1
ANYTHING.
2
AND WE'VE ASKED THE -- WE MET SPECIFICALLY
3
WITH SUZANNE WALKER WITH THE OFFICE OF GREENWAYS
4
AND TRAILS. WE LITERALLY COLORED IN THESE LITTLE
5
POINTS AND WE ASKED THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO USE
6
THESE PORTIONS OF THESE ISOLATED UPLANDS TO MEET
7
OUR TWO-TO-ONE TEST. BECAUSE, OTHERWISE, THEY'RE
8
TOTALLY USELESS TO US AND EVERYONE ELSE. AND IT
9
REALLY AMOUNTS TO MORE THAN A TWO-TO-ONE
10
CONTRI3UTION BY THE SCHRIMSHERS.
11
SHE UNDERSTOOD AND AGREED, AND I FORGET T2E
12
EXACT LANGUAGE.
I HAVE IT. MAYBE MR. CARRINGTON,
13
MIG~T CARE TO READ THAT FOR YOU.
14
3UT WHAT THAT WOULD DO IS IT WOULD RE~~CE THE
15
SIZE OF THIS BIG GREEN CHUNK THAT S~OWS UP
" r
~~
EVERYWHERE THAT BEGAN TO BE RELIED UPON AS SOME
17
HUGE, HUGE PARK ALONG THE TRAIL.
18
SO THE DIMENSIONS OF THAT WOUL~ S~RINK. AND
19
WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO IS TO BE ALLOWED -- VERY
20
SIMILAR TO THE -- BEING ABLE TO MOVE THESE LITTLE
21
PARKS AROUND BY A CERTAIN RADIUS TEST, WE WOULD
22
LIKE TO BE ABLE TO SLIrE THIS TRAIL LAKE PARK UP
23
AND DOWN THIS UNPAVED PORTION OF TEE TRAIL,
24
BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE. WE
25
DON'T WANT TO FIX IT IN A LOCATION ANY MORE THAN
.
.
.
45
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
WE WANT TO FIX THESE LITTLE PARKS. WE WOULD BE
WILLING TO AGREE TO SOME LIMITED RESTRICTIONS ON
THE ABILITY TO SLIDE THAT PART OF THE PARK.
SO THAT'S IT. THAT'S IT ABOUT THE TRAIL LAKE
PARK. THAT'S WHERE IT CAME FROM, THAT'S WHERE IT
IS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO WITH IT.
AS TO OPEN ISSUES, I'D LIKE TO SAY WE HAVE NO
SIGNIFICANT OPEN ISSUES. THERE ARE ISSUES THAT
NEED TO BE NAILED DOWN. AND AS YOU-ALL KNOW,
WE'VE CONTESTED THE PASSAGE OF THE TOWN CENTER
ORDINANCE UNTIL SUCH TI~E AS THIS COMPANION
AGREEMENT CAN 3E ADOPTED CONCURRENTLY WITH THE
11
12
13
OR~=NAKCE. AK~ WE STILL FEEL THAT WAY.
lL::
WE ARE CLOSE TO THIS COMPANION AGREEMENT.
15
WHAT'S IT GOING TO TAKE TO FINALIZE THE COMPANION
16
AGREEMENT? THESE ARE THE THINGS WE THINK IT
17
TAKES, NONE JF WHICH DO WE THINK ARE
18 , INS'l}RlYiOUNTABLE.
19
FIRST, ALL THE EXHIbITS KEED TO BE FINALIZED,
20
21
22
23
24
EXHIBITS WITH DETAIL. WE THINK THAT CAN BE DONE.
THE BIGGEST ISSUE, AS YOU WILL RECALL ON
VALENTINE'S DAY, WAS THE POSSIBLE RELOCATION OF
THE TRAIL. AND IT WAS -- THERE WAS NO SHOTS BEING1
TAKEN, COMMISSIONER MCLEOD -- IT WAS THE
RELOCATION OF THE TRAIL. SOUNDS LIKE YOU-ALL
25
.
.
.
46
1
TALKED ABOUT IT TWO WEEKS AGO, TOO.
2
MR. MCLEMORE: BY VALENTINE'S, I JUST
3
WONDERED IF YOU WERE REFERRING TO VALENTINE'S
4
MASSACRE.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO.
IT WASN'T SO BAD.
I
6
DON'T THINK IT WAS SO BAD.
7
ANYWAY, UP HERE, THIS BLUE DOTTED LINE, WE
8
WOULD LIKE TO RELOCATE THE TRAIL TO THAT
9
LOCATION. THE OFFICE OF GREENWAYS AND TRAILS HAS
10
AGREED TO THAT PROVIDED TWO THINGS OCCUR.
11
ONE IS THE COUNTY -- SEMINOLE COUNTY MANAGER
12
IN CHARGE OF THE TRAIL HAS GOT TO AGREE TO IT.
13
AND THEY WANT -- INSTEAD OF HAVING A SHARP TURN
14
RI,......'""' ,,~..,~
.:. I....;:: 1 :-:.::. .:....\.!:.:
WHERE
IT COMES BACK INTO THE SOUTH END
15
OF WETLAND PARK, THEY WANT TO HAVE A SMOOTH
1 r
_0
ROUNDED EDGE, WHICH WE CAN DO.
THERE'S SOME
17
UPLANDS THERE. AND IT MAY EVEN RESULT IN A
18
LITTLE -- SOME KIND OF LITTLE PARK RIGHT THERE
19
WHICH WAS OTHERWISE PART OF WETLAND PARK WHEN IT
20
CUTS ACROSS THAT LITTLE CORNER THERE.
BUT THERE'S
21
ROOM TO DO THAT. THAT WAS OUR BIG ISSUE. WE
22
THINK THAT CAN BE OVERCOME.
23
WITH REGARD TO THE MINI PARKS, WE WANTED TO
24
ELIMINATE THIS LITTLE GUY HERE, THIS LITTLE
25
TRIANGULAR PIECE THAT SHOWS UP ON THE MAP. THERE
.
.
.
47
1
HASN'T BEEN A WHOLE LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THAT.
I
2
DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S EVEN AN ISSUE ON THAT.
3
BUT THAT TAKES OFF A CHUNK OF WHAT IS THE MOST
4
VALUABLE PIECE OF THE PROPERTY LEFT FOR SCHRIMSHER
5
AND IT REALLY SERVES NO PURPOSE RIGHT ACROSS THE
6
STREET FROM A HUGE WETLAND PARK, IN OUR OPINION.
7
NOW, WITH REGARD TO THESE OTHER SMALL PARKS,
8
IN YOUR AGENDA ITEMS THERE WAS SOME SUGGESTION
9
TEAT WE WERE TRYING TO ELIMINATE THESE. WE ARE NOT
10
TRYING TO ELIMINATE THESE.
WE SIMPLY WANT TO MOVE
11
TBE TRF.IL UP.
THESE TWO PARKS CAN EITHER SLIDE
12
WITH THE TRAIL OR STAY THERE AND STILL BE SUBJECT
I
TO ~~E RE~OCAT~ON ON THE RADIUS TES1, WH~CH IS I
I
BUILT INTO THE AGREEMENT. SO WE THINK TE.ZiT TE.ZiT' SI
13
14
" "'
.l.:>
NOT AN INSURMOUNTABLE ISSUE, EITHER.
16
...,.,.. !:'
lH....,
RADIUS TEST THAT I'M REFERRING
TO IS THE
17
RIGHT -- DRAFTED IN THE AGREEMENT, THE RIGHT TO
15
RE~OCA~E SOME OF THESE PARKS WITHIN THE DIS~ANCE
19
OF 500 FEBT.
20
MR. BLAKE:
250.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
250.
22
MR. MCLEMORE:
250.
23
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
WE READ IT.
24
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
MAYBE MR. GARGANESE CAN TELL
25
YOU HOW I THOUGHT IT WAS 500.
.
.
.
48
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
MR. GARGANESE: 250 WAS INSERTED INTO THE
AGREEMENT BY THE CITY MANAGER AND STAFF.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHEN WAS THAT?
MR. GARGANESE: WE HAD DISCUSSED A RANGE UP
TO 500 FEET.
MR. MCLEMORE:
IT'S ON PAGE 4 OF 16 OF THE
AGREEMENT, THE MIDDLE OF THE PAGE.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: MINE HAS A BLANK, SIR.
THAT'S WHY --
10
11
12
MR. GARGANESE: MR. GRINDSTAFF RECEIVED ONE
WITH A BLANK, AND STAFF --
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND A DISCUSSION OF 500, AS
WELL AS WE TALKED ABOUT A RANGE, WE THOUGHT 500
WAS DOABLE. .
MR. PARTYKA: WELL, LET ME ASK A QUESTION.
IS IT A KILLER 250 OR 500? IS THERE A
13
:::"4
1.:)
16
17
DIFFERENCE --
18
MR. MARTINEZ: YES.
MR. PARTYKA: -- ONE VERSUS THE OTHER?
MR. MARTINEZ: YES. 250 FEET.
MR. PARTYKA: FROM A PRODUCTIVE STANDPOINT,
DOES IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE OTHER THAN AN ARBITRARY
19
20
21
22
23
24
NUMBER?
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, AT 500 FEET, YOU'RE
STARTING TO HAVE SOME VARIANCES FROM YOUR PLAN.
25
.
.
.
49
1
THAT'S OUR POINT. THEY WANT SOME FLEXIBILITY.
2
250 FEET GIVES YOU SOME FLEXIBILITY WITHOUT
3
500 FEET
CHANGING, SIGNIFICANTLY, THE PLAN.
4
BECOMES A MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
5
MR. PARTYKA: BUT IN THE ABSENCE, IS 500 A
6
BIG DEAL OR IS 250 A BIG DEAL AS AN ABSOLUTE?
7
FORGET WHAT THE GROWTH IS. AS AN ABSOLUTE, DOES
8
IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
9
MR. MCLEMORE:
I GUESS IT'S IN THE EYE OF THE
10
BEHOLDER.
11
MR. PARTYKA: WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO
12
ASK.
- ..,
J.~
MR. GRINDSTA?F: WE'RE BEHOLDING THAT'S TOO
14
LITTLE. WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE 500 FEET.
15
~R. PARTYKA: OKAY.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
16
MR. BLAKE: CAN YOU SHOW US WHAT -- IS THERE
17
A SCALE ON THAT MAP THAT SHOWS THE DIFFERENCE?
18
FOR INSTANCE, TAKE TEAT PARK RIGHT UNDER YOUR PEN I
19
THERE. YES. CAN YOU SHOW US THE APPROXIMATE
20
250-FOOT RADIUS OR 500-FOOT RADIUS WHERE THAT
21
PARK
22
MR. CARRINGTON:
I'M SHOWING YOU A 500-FOOT
23
RADIUS, SO OBVIOUSLY HALF -- HERE'S THE SCALE.
24
MR. MCLEMORE:
IF I COULD, COMMISSIONER --
25
BECAUSE I'M ON THE SAME LINE YOU'RE ON, I THINK
.
.
.
50
1
IF YOU RECALL, YOU REALLY SAID IT CREATES ZONES SO
2
THAT WHEN THESE THINGS ARE MOVED, WE DON'T BUNCH
3
ALL THESE PARKS UP AND WE DON'T LOSE A SECTION
4
THAT DOESN'T HAVE A PARK. WHEN YOU START GETTING
5
OUT TO 500 FEET, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: LET'S COME BACK TO THAT,
7
BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S MORE GOOD NEWS.
8
MR. PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT HAD TO DO WITH THE MINI
10
PARKS. ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE CONCERNED
11
ABOUT -- I THINK EVERYONE COULD BE IN AGREEMENT ON
12
THIS -- WAS TO THE EXTENT THE TRAIL RUNS ADJACENT
13
TO ST. JOHN'S LANDING, THERE WAS A COUPLE OF
14
ISSUES WORKING HERE.
1 ~
-~
ONE IS THERE'S A WALL ORDINANCE WORKING ITS
16
WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS, WHICH WE THINK, JUST AS
17
SORT OF PARENTHETICALLY, MAY BE TOO BROAD TO THE
18
EXTENT IT REQUIRES WALLS WITHIN TOWN CENTER. WE
19
NEED TO RETHINK THAT, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE
20
WANTED HIGH DENSITIES AND USES NEXT TO EACH OTHER
21
WITHOUT THESE TYPES OF RESTRICTIONS.
THAT'S
22
JUST
CLOSE THE PARENTHETICAL ON THAT. WE'LL
23
COME BACK ON THE WALL ORDINANCE.
24
BUT UP HERE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S GOING
25
TO NEED TO BE A WALL OF 6 FEET IN HEIGHT TO THE
.
.
.
51
1
EXTENT THERE'S A -- BETWEEN THE SINGLE FAMILY AND
2
EITHER COMMERCIAL OR MULTIFAMILY.
3
IF THERE IS A BUFFER
THERE'S ALSO
4
REQUIREMENT IN ADDITION TO THAT WALL, WE SIMPLY
5
WANT THE WIDTH OF THE TRAIL TO COUNT AS PART OF
6
THAT BUFFER. NOW, I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE. NO
7
ONE REALLY HAS AN OBJECTION TO THAT, BUT WE JUST
8
HAVEN'T PUT THAT IN THE AGREEMENT.
THAT NEEDS TO
9
GET INTO THE AGREEMENT.
10
IN OTHER WORDS, IF THERE'S A 50-FOOT BUFFER,
11
IF THE TRAIL IS 15 FEET, THAT 15 FEET COUNTS
12
TOWARDS 50, WE NEED TO GET 35 MORE FEET OF
13
3UF?ER. TEAT'S ALL.
14
MR. MCLEMORE: AS LONG AS THE WALL IS TEERE.
15
!v1R. GRINDST.b.?F:
IN ADDITION TO THE WALL.
16
"....,. 1:'
.h....,
LOCATION OF THE WALL, WE'D LIKE
TO BE
17
ABLE TO -- WE'D LIKE, AT THE TIME OF DEVELOPMENT,
18
TO DECIDE WHETHER THAT WALL GOES ON -- ODTSIDE
rr ~ '!'...,
- ::. .::., I
I
19
TRAIL OR INSIDE THE TRAIL, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I
20
MEAN. AND WE'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY.
21
THE USER OF OUR PROPERTY MAY WANT THE TRh~L
22
TO BE INSIDE THE WALL.
CONVERSELY, THEY MAY BE
23
WILLING TO PUT THE WALL INSIDE THE TRAIL.
SO WE'D
24
LIKE FOR YOU TO WORK WITH US IN THAT REGARD.
25
NOW, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THAT IS THE -- THOSE
52
1
ARE THE OPEN ISSUES. THE GOOD NEWS IS I THINK
.
2
WE'VE AGREED -- YOU KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT ITEMS
3
LAST TIMEi THE LOCATION OF SPINE ROAD, THE
4
CONNECTION FEE ISSUE. THE WALL ORDINANCE, WE'VE
5
TALKED ABOUT. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S SOME
6
THOUGHT PROCESS HERE WITH THE CITY THAT THE
7
THERE'S SOME DEADLINE FOR THE DESIGN OF THE
8
TRAIL -- YOU KNOW, CARRIAGE TURNS TO A PUMPKIN
9
TOMORROW AT NOON OR SOMETHING. THAT'S NOT TRUE.
10
IT'S NOT ACCURATE.
11
WE SPOKE WITH THE TRAIL -- ONE OF MY
12
PARTNERS, LONNIE GROOT, A FORMER SEMINOLE COUNTY
13
ATTORNEY, SPOKE WITH DAVID MARTIN WITH SE~INOLE
.
1~ I
COUNTY EARLIER TODAY. HE'S A TRAIL PROGRAM
15
MANAGER FOR THE COUNTY ENGINEERING DEPAR~MENT.
16
AND HE EXPLAINED THAT THE ONLY DEADLINE TEAT EE
19
JUNE 30TH.
I
PLANNING PROGRAMi
BE FINALIZED EY I
I
17
WAS AWARE OF WAS THE LOCAL AGENCY
~8
AGKEEMENT WITH D.O.T., WEICH MUST
20
NOW, WITH THAT, I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER
21
COMMENTS.
22
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS.
OUR
23
PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO AGAIN DEFER THIS MATTER FOR
I
24
TWO WEEKS, ALLOW US TO FINALIZE THIS AGREEMENT,
25
PUT IT IN AT A FINAL FORM SO THAT IT COMES TO YOU
.
.
.
.
53
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
AS A PACKAGE WITH TIME FOR YOU TO LOOK AT IT AND
THAT IT BE PASSED CONCURRENTLY OR APPROVED
CONCURRENTLY WITH THE PASSAGE OR THE NEXT READING
OF THAT ORDINANCE.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. BEFORE I POSE QUESTIONS
TO THE COMMISSIONERS
MR. GRINDSTAFF: MR. SCHRIMSHER MAY HAVE
SOMETHING TO SAY.
MR. PARTYKA: LET ME SUMMARIZE SOMETHING, SO
WE'RE RIGHT AND WE'VE GOT THIS DOWN.
YOUR POINTS
11
ARE: NUMBER ONE, EXHIBITS WITH DETAILS, THE FINAL
DETAILS; IS THAT CORRECT? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY
12
13
THAT WEEN YOU S.'D..Y "EXHIBITS"?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RATHER THAN TEE LIST. WE
RECEIVED ANTHONY'S DRAFT AGREEMENT THURSDAY. WE
SUB~ITTED AN AGREEMENT -- AS YOU ALL KNOW, THERE'S
A COMPRESSION OF EFFORT IN THESE LAST THREE OR
14
15
16
17
18
?O'UR Dl". Y S .
19
20
21
22
23
24
FOR PERSONAL REASONS, MR. SCHRIMSHER AND I
HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET TOGETHER OVER THE
WEEKEND OR FRIDAY TO WRAP THAT UP. WE DID THAT
TODAY. WE RESUBMITTED AN AGREEMENT TO ANTHONY
LITERALLY WHEN WE GOT HERE TONIGHT. AND HE HAS
NOT HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THAT. YOU-ALL DON'T
HAVE IT. THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL BLACK LINES.
25
.
.
.
54
1
ONE OF THE EXHIBITS OR ATTACHMENTS TO HIS
2
DRAFT IS A LIST OF EXHIBITS, NOT MERE REFERENCE TO
3
WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE. WE NEED TO HAVE WETLAND
4
PARK, FOR EXAMPLE, 23.4 ACRES, IF THAT'S WHAT IT
5
IS.
6
MR. PARTYKA: NO GENERALIZATIONS.
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO WETLAND PARK OVER THERE
8
SOMEWHERE MAY BE CLOSE.
IT NEEDS TO BE THERE AND
9
IDENTIFIED WITH ACREAGE SPECIFICITY, FOR EXA~PLE.
10
AND THAT'S GOOD FOR 50TH -- ALL PARTIES.
11
MR. PARTYKA: WE UNDERSTAND THAT.
OUR SECOND
12
POINT YOU MADE WAS REALIGN THE TRAIL.
13
MR. GRINDSTA:F:
WELL, JUST ACKNOWLE0GE
~~p
--~~
14
REALIG~~ENT.
15
MR. PARTYKA: AGAIN, ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF TEE
16
REALIGNMENT OF THE TRAIL RIGHT NOW, AND ALSO NOTE
17
THAT, POTENTIALLY, YOU MAY WANT TO ROUND THE
18
CORNERS RIGHT THERE, ELIMINATE THE TRIANGLE PARCELl
PARK, THE TRIANGLE PARK. I
19
20
THREE.
THERE'S AN ISSUE ON 500 FEET VERSUS
21
250.
22
AND THEN FOUR, AGAIN, CONSIDERATION OF WALL
23
ORDINANCE AND, AGAIN, CONSIDERATION THAT YOU'RE
2~
TALKING ABOUT MUCH MORE DENSE AREA IN THE TOWN
25
CENTER VERSUS OTHER PLACES IN THE CITY.
.
.
.
55
1
AND THEN THE LAST THING IS THE TRAIL SHOULD
2
COUNT TOWARDS THE BUFFER WITHOUT EXCLUDING THE
3
WALL NECESSITY; IS THAT CORRECT? I THINK I GOT
4
ALL THE POINTS.
5
YES, SIR.
I WOULD POINT
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
6
OUT -- I MEAN, I BLACK-LINED -- I PROPOSED
7
LANGUAGE TO ANTHONY THAT IT DOES THOSE THINGS.
8
FOR EXAMPLE, ACKNOWLEDGES THE REALIGNMENT OF THE
9
TRAIL, ALLOWS US TO USE THESE LITTLE FINGERS OVER
10
p~-,t;'l
....I.;....)!\ ......;
COUNTING FOR OUR TWO-TO-ONE, AND COOPERATING
11
WITH THE FLORIDA O?FICE OF GREENWAYS AND TRAILS.
12
FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED
J..3
ASOUT WITH TEEM --
AND THIS IS GOOD FOR
14
EVERYONE
F.T THE
TIME THESE ALIGNMENTS
ARE
13
CONVEYED TO THE STATE, WE NEED TO RESERVE
16
EF..5EMENTS.
WE NEED TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO PUT
17
ROADS ON THEM AND UTILITIES UNDERNEATH THEM AT
18
CERTAIN LOCATIONS, WHICH WOULD BE WHERE -- I THINK
WEERE WE WOULD START IN THE SURVEY PROCESS, IS WE I
WOULD HAVE WHERE THEY'RE SHOWN IN THE PLANS. EVEN!
I
, a
... -'
20
21
THOUGH THOSE DRAWINGS ARE FOR ILLUSTRATIVE
22
PURPOSES ONLY, WE SHOULD START WITH THOSE. AND IF
23
WE !-iF.VE TO MOVE
THEM
LATER, WE WOULD COME BACK AND,
I
!
24
ATTEMPT TO MOVE THEM IN ACCORDANCE WITH THEIR
25
REGULATIONS.
58
.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
:"2
;
1'; I
I
I
I
15 i
I'
" r
...!..o I
17 I
18
19
20
21
22
,23
24
25
.
.
COMFORTABLE THAT WE'RE SATISFIED WITH THE RELATIVE
VALUE TO US OF THE TRADE, AND YOU HAVE TO BE
SATISFIED THAT IT'S A GOOD TRADE AS FAR AS YOU'RE
CONCERNED. AND HOW WE EVALUATE IT MAY BE
DIFFERENT.
BUT I GUESS THE ONLY THING I'D LIKE TO SAY IS
IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ME IF I WAS ALLOWED TO
SPEAK TO VICTOR DOVER, OR IF YOU WOULD.
IN OTHER
WORDS, IT'S AWKWARD, BECAUSE HE'S YOUR
CONSULTANT.
AND I THINK HE'S MAYBE RELUCTANT TO
SPEAK, SOMETIMES, TO ME AND MAYBE TO OTHERS.
BECA:JSE, ONE, I F HE'S DOING IT, HE'S ON THE CLOCK,
,...,- ..,...,
i,J..--\' :: ::.:
KAKTS TO BE ABLE TO CHARGE SOMEBODY FOR HIS
TI!V:=: .
OR HE'S NOT SURE IF HE CAN SPEAK WITHOUT
SOMEONE WHO REPRESENTS HIS CLIENT PRESENT.
I MJI. Y
~R PUTTING WORDS IN HIS MOUTH.
I'M NOT SURE.
BUT WHEN 1 SEND HIM A FAX OR REQUEST A PHONE
C.l;,.L:.c, YOU KNOW, IN GENERAL, I DON'T GET OKE. I
JUST HAVE TO GUESS THAT'S WHY, BECA0SE THE STAFF
CURRENTLY RELIES ON HIS EXPERTISE FAIRLY HEAVILY,
HIS INPUT, GIVING A THUMBS UP OR DOWN OR SOME
REASON WHY A CHANGE MIGHT BE GOOD OR BAD.
HE'S ALMOST SERVING AS AN ADJUNCT STAFF FOR
THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS AND HE'S NOT ACCESSIBLEi
i
TO ME. I DON'T KNOW IF HE IS TO OTHER PEOPLE. I
.
.
.
59
1
2
3
BUT THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL, BECAUSE SOME OF THESE
THINGS COULD, I THINK, GET WRAPPED UP REAL QUICKLY
AS OTHERS HAVE WHENEVER WE'VE ALL BEEN ABLE TO
HAVE -- LIKE, IN THE PAST, WHEN WE'VE HAD
THREE-WAY CONFERENCE CALLS WITH CHARLES AND
VICTOR, WE'VE COVERED A TON OF ISSUES IN A MATTER
OF AN HOUR OR TWO. OR WHEN WE'VE HAD THE MEETINGS
HERE AT CITY HALL. AND I CAN BE IN THE ROOM WITH
HIM AND DICK DAVIS AND WHOEVER FROM THE CITY.
BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS NOW IS IT SORT OF GETS
PARALYZED. THE QUESTION GETS ASKED. WE NEED HIS
INPUT AND WE CAN'T GET IT VERY QUICKLY, SO IT'S IN
LIMBO LAND UNTIL IT COMES BACK. AND EVENTUALLY, I
GUESS, HE GIVES HIS INPUT TO THE CITY, AND THEN
THAT FORMS THE BASIS FOR WHATEVER RESPONSE THE
CITY GIVES. BUT SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THAT MAKES
IT GO LONGER.
SO IN THIS FINAL WEEK OR TWO, WHERE WE'RE
REALLY, YOU KNOW, PUTTING THE FINISHING TOUCHES ON
THIS, IF HE COULD BE AVAILABLE TO SPEAK ON A
COUPLE OF THESE THINGS, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. LET ME TURN IT OVER TO
THE CITY MANAGER. HE WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING.
AND I'VE GOT A COUPLE COMMISSIONERS THAT MAYBE
WANT TO MAKE SOME FINAL COMMENTS AND MAYBE TALK TO
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
.
.
.
61
1
GOING TO HAPPEN IS THAT AS MORE HOMEOWNERS MOVE IN
2
DOWN THERE, THEY'RE GOING TO TEND TO WANT THE WALL
3
BETWEEN THEM AND THE TRAIL. MAYBE THAT WILL
4
CHANGE.
I DON'T KNOW. BUT THAT'S A FINAL
5
DECISION THAT HAS TO REST WITH THE COMMISSION AND
6
WHAT YOU READ INTO PUBLIC COMMENT AT THAT POINT IN
7
TIME IN TERMS OF WHAT'S BEST FOR THE CITY.
I
8
DON'T THINK THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'RE
9
PRESENTING.
10
BUT I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD GUARANTEE IT AT
11
THIS POINT IN TIME IN THE AGREEMENT OTHER THAN
~ ~
~L
MAINTAINING THAT FLEXIBILITY, WEICH I DON'T EAVE
1 ~
-~
ANY PROBLEMS WITH.
1~
I THINK OUR POINT ON TEE 250 ON THE DISTANCE
15
IS A VALID POINT.
I THINK WE NEED TO THINK VERY
~ r
~O
CAREFULLY ABOUT THAT BEFORE WE GO BEYOND THE 250
17
Hh-K
!V~.-... :{.. .
~C
THE LAKE TRAIL PARK.
I DON'T KNOW ~HAT I
:9
HAVE ANY PARTICULAR PROBLEMS WITH THAT.
BUT I
20
THINK WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS START OFF WITH THE IDEAl'
OF THAT MOVEMENT BACK AND FORTH. SOME
I
I
,
RECONFIGURATION DOESN'T PARTICULARLY BOTHER ME, I
I
I
BUT I THINK WE NEED TO START OFF WITH THIS IS I
I
21
22
23
24
WHERE IT IS ON THE MAP, JUST LIKE THE OTHER
25
PARTS. AND WHAT'S OF PARTICULAR CONCERN TO ME IS
.
.
.
62
1
THE ACREAGES. AND WHEN WE CHANGE AND REFORMAT OR
2
RESHAPE, THE ACREAGES SHOULD REMAIN THE SAME.
3
AND I TAKE THAT SAME ARGUMENT BACK TO
OR
4
THAT POSITION BACK TO PART 3, WHICH IS THE
5
FOUR-TENTHS OF AN ACRE. AND IF WE'RE GOING TO
6
GIVE THAT UP, I THINK THAT FOUR-TENTHS OF AN ACRE
7
NEEDS TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND NOT OUT INTO THE
8
ATMOSPHERE.
9
AND SO WITH THOSE COMMENTS IN PLACE, AS FAR
10
AS I'M CONCERNED, I THINK WE CAN MOVE TOWARDS
11
CLOSING THIS THING VERY, VERY RAPIDLY. OBVIOUSLY,
I'D LIKE TO HEAR YOUR OPINIONS ON IT, AND I'M SUREI
i
h'S' ~~ GET sorv;s RE3UTTJI.~ FROM MIKE. HE SEE!vJS TO BE;
12
13
14
PR::2p.n.RED.
15
MR. PARTYKA: T2ERE'S ONE COMMENT THAT HE
::.6
MADE, POINT 5. TRAIL SPACE SHOULD COUNT TOWARDS
17
Tn~
n.:.
BUFFER.
ANY THOUGtiTS ON THAT ONE?
:8
MR. MCLEMORE:
IF I UNDERSTAND HIM, I DON'T
2.9
THINK WE HAVE ANY DIFFSRENCE.
I THINK WHAT HE'S
20
SAYING, IF HE'S GOT TO HAVE A 50-FOOT BUFFER AND
21
15 FEET OF THAT IS NEEDED FOR THE WALL, THEN HE
22
ONLY NEEDS TO GIVE THE WALL 30 MORE FEET.
23
MR. PARTYKA: NO, THE TRAIL.
24
MR. MCLEMORE: OH, THE TRAIL.
I DON'T KNOW
25
THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AS LONG AS THE
.
.
20
21
22
23
24
25
.
63
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
WALL IS THERE.
I THINK WE'VE ALREADY AGREED TO
THAT ONE. AS LONG AS THE WALL IS THERE AND THERE
IS -- THE TRAIL COULD COUNT TOWARD THE BUFFER, I
THINK.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
MY
UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRAIL COULD BE WITHIN THE
BUFFER.
MR. SCHRIMSHER:
ASKING.
RIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
10
MR. PARTYKA:
OTHER COMMENTS?
MR. MCLEMORE: AS LONG AS THE WALL IS ~HERE.
OKAY.
SO ARE THERE ANY;
RIGHT.
11
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE WON'T BE OWNING THE
13
TRJ:":LL.
THE TRAIL WILL HAVE BEEN CONVEYED TO THE
14
ST.!\'TE.
THAT'S WHY THESE --
15
MR. PARTYKA:
LET ME GET THIS IN ORDER.
16
WE'VE GOT THIS IN ORDER.
YES, YOU CAN ASK A
17
QUESTION.
18
MR. MAKTINEZ:
CITY MANAGER, I WANT TO KNOW
19
WHY WOULD THE STATE OR THE COUNTY SAY IF YOU
INCLUDE THE TRAIL AS PART OF THE BUFFER, WOULD
THEY OBJECT?
MR. MCLEMORE:
I DON'T THINK SO.
MR.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
SCHRIMSHER, DO YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING NOW OR!
DO YOU WANT TO WAIT UNTIL THE COMMISSIONERS WANT
.
.
.
1
TO SPEAK?
64
2
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WELL, I WAS JUST GOING TO
3
ANSWER A COUPLE OF THINGS.
I HAD A NOTE TO MYSELF
4
AND I DIDN'T REMEMBER WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID
5
IT.
I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MY OWN SHORTHAND.
6
ON THESE MINI PARKS, I WANT TO POINT TO THIS
7
ONE. YOU'LL NOTICE IT'S NOT HIGHLIGHTED ON THIS
8
DRAWING THE WAY SOME ARE.
I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN AN
IN MY MIND, THIS WASN'T SOMETHING
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT IF YOU READ!
9
EVOLVING MAP.
10
WE AGREED TO.
11
BACK OVER OUR EARLIER MINUTES FROM OUR EARLIER
12
MEETINGS, THAT WE HAVE CHALLENGED T~IS
13
CONSISTENTLY FROM THE FIRST TIME IT WAS
lL::
PRESENTED.
15
AND IT'S ONE THING I'D LIKE TO TALK TO --
16
IT'S ONE OF THE FEW THINGS I'D LIKE TO SPEAK WITH
17
VICTOR ABOUT, HOW ESSENTIA~ OR HOW NECESSARY THAT
=-8
PJ..RK IS IN HIS PLJ..N, ESPECIALLY SINCE, DIRECTLY
19
ACROSS THE STREET, IS A HUGE PARK. AND THE PARK
20
DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET IS UP WHERE I'LL POINT
21
RIGHT NOW. THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF A THING -- OF
22
KIND OF THING THAT WHEN WE HAVE THREE-WAY
23
CONVERSATIONS THAT INCLUDE VICTOR, HE EITHER
24
PERSUADES ME OR I PERSUADE HIM OR, YOU KNOW,
25
SOMETHING HAPPENS PRETTY QUICKLY.
THEl
I
I
i
I
I
!
.
.
.
65
1
I JUST WANT TO GIVE AN ILLUSTRATION OF WHY
2
IT'S IMPORTANT TO US THAT THE LOCATION OF THESE
3
MINI PARKS BE AS FLEXIBLE AS POSSIBLE. WE MAY
4
SELL SOMEONE A TRACT THAT'S FIVE ACRES, TEN, OR
5
TWENTY. WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY RIGHT NOW. A
6
PERSON WHO CAME ALONG AND WANTS TO DEVELOP,
7
WHETHER IT BE MULTIFAMILY OR WHETHER IT BE OFFICE,
8
THEY MAY BUY -- THE TRACT THEY MAY DESIRE TO
9
DEVELOP COULD INCLUDE ONE OF THESE MINI PARKS,
10
WHICH WOULD BE AN IMPOSSIBLE THING FOR THEM TO
11
DEVELOP.
12
A PIECE OF PROPERTY WITH A DONUT HOLE IN THE
13
MIDDLE WOULD REQUIRE THEM TO MAINTAIN PUBLIC I
i
ASSESS TO A PU3LIC SPACE IN THE MIDST OF SOMETHING!
I
I
::"4
j :::.
THEY'RE DOING. AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE
~ ::
WE HAVE TEE ABILITY TO SE:FT THESE PARKS TO THE
17
EDGES.
18
AKD I'LL -- AGAIN, LET ME GUST -- IF THIS
- "
I ~
- ../
THING WILL MOVE -- FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE BOUGHT
20
SOMETHING THIS BIG, THEY MIGHT WANT TO SHIFT IT
21
BACK TO HERE WHERE WE WERE JUST TALKING OR OVER TO
22
HERE. NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH HAVING A PARK
23
ADJACENT TO THEM THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO USE ALONG
24
WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC.
25
BUT WHAT DEVELOPERS CONSISTENTLY HAVE A
.
.
.
66
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
PROBLEM WITH WHEN I SPEAK -- I'VE SPOKEN WITH
QUITE A FEW -- IS HAVING, LIKE I SAID, A DONUT
HOLE IN THE MIDST OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO.
AGAIN, IF SOMEONE ACQUIRED THIS PIECE, MAYBE ALL
THEY'D WANT TO DO IS SLIDE IT TO HERE.
LIKEWISE, UP THERE.
I CAN'T REACH, BUT YOU
11
SEE WHAT I'M SAYING. AND THERE ARE TYPICAL SIZE
BLOCKS THAT DEVELOPERS, DEPENDING ON WHAT THEY'RE
BUILDING, OR SOME PEOPLE JUST WANT TO BUY AN ACRE
AND PUT UP A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT OR A GAS
STATION.
BUT MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO DEVELOP THE
12
13
KIK~ OF THINGS WE'~E ALL HOPING TO SEE HERE WORK
14
IN ~ARGER BLOCKS.
AND THAT BECOMES IMPORTANT TO
15
HAVE AS MUCH FLEXIBILITY AS WE CAN ON MOVING
16
THOSE.
17
I THINK AS FAR AS THIS IS CONr.ERNED, THERE'S
LAKGDAGE IN THE AG~EEMENT CURRENTLY THAT SAYS
SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT THIS PLAN DEPICTS
GREEN SPACES, PARKS, AND OPEN SPACES, AND THEY CAN
BE CHANGED AS LONG AS, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T DO
HARM TO THE PLAN.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT -- THE REASON VICTOR
LIKE~ THIS, AS HE EXPLAINED IT TO ME, WAS HE
WAKTED AN OPPORTUNITY, WHEN PEOPLE ARE DRIVING ON
25
.
.
.
1
THIS ROAD, TO SEE ACROSS, TO HAVE A VIEW OF THE
67
2
TRAIL AND INTO THE GREEN SPACES AND WETLANDS.
3
THAT'S WHAT HE'S ACCOMPLISHING BY HAVING THAT
4
HERE.
5
WELL, THAT IS A GOOD THING TO ACCOMPLISH, BUT
6
IT COULD BE ACCOMPLISHED WITH SOMETHING SHORTER OR
7
LONGER OR WIDER OR NARROWER, SLID UP THAT WAY OR
8
SLID DOWN THIS WAY. SO, AGAIN, ANY DEVELOPMENT
9
PLAN THAT'S BROUGHT TO YOU FOR APPROVAL, TEAT'S
10
PR03ABLY -- I WOULD ASSUME THAT IS GOING TO 3E
11
OF THE CRITERIA THE FOLKS WHO EVALUATE IT WILL
12
LOOK FOR.
13
IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF IT DOESN'T ~AVE
ONE
I
I
I
14
EXAC~LY THESE KIND OF GREEN SPACES AND OPEK SPACES1
15
AN~ ~A?-KS, WHAT DOES IT HAVE THAT'S COMPARA3LE,
l6
THAT AC~IEVES WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO ACHIEVE WHEN
17
THE PLAN WAS DESIGNED?
18
SO THAT'S, AGAIN, WHY WE'RE LOOKING FOR
19
FLEXIEILITY ON THAT PARTICULAR PART.
20
MR. PARTYKA: COULD YOU CLARIFY ONE THING?
21
ON A SCALE ON THAT MAP, HOW BIG IS 250 FEET AND
22
HOW BIG IS 500 FEET ON THAT MAP, SO WE CAN SEE
23
THAT?
24
MR. MCLEMORE: CHARLES, DO YOU MIND DOING
25
THAT? I DON'T HAVE THE SCA~E.
68
.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
a
~
10
11
12
, '
-~
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
-
" .
23
24
25
.
.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ONE INCH EQUALS 200, SO I
WON'T BE ABLE TO DO IT UNLESS I DO IT ON HERE.
MR. MCLEMORE:
I NEED TO ASK A QUESTION ON
THIS, TOO.
MR. SCHRIMSHER: SO EAST AND WEST, FOR
EXAMPLE, ON THIS TRAIL -- ON THIS PARK, YOU CAN
ONLY MOVE SO FAR BEFORE YOU START TO, YOU KNOW,
RUN UP AGAINST SPINE ROAD OR THIS EDGE ROAD.
BUT THIS WAY, YOU HAVE MORE LATITUDE. YOU
COULD HAVE MORE LATITUDE WITHOUT CAUSING HARM TO
THE OTHER INGREDIENTS OF THE PLAN, FOR EXAMPLE.
AND LIKEWISE, THIS IS NOT LIKELY TO MOVE.
T~~S PAKT IS ~OT LIKELY TO BE EKOUGHT OUT EEKE TO
434.
IT'S MOST LIKELY TO BE SHIFTE0 IN ONE OF
THESE DIRECTIONS.
SO FOR SOME OF THESE LOCATIONS,
PROBABLY 200 OR 300 FEET IS PLENTY.
BUT IN A
COUPLE OF INSTANCES, THE 500 COULD BECOME
I~?ORTANT.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE WANTED TO DO A FAIRLY
LARGE DEVELOPMENT, THEY COULD WANT TO SLIDE THAT
TO HERE, AND THAT MIGHT BE 350. SO I THINK IT'S
SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WORK OUT. OKAY.
MR. PARTYKA: ANYTHING ELSE?
MR. MCLEMORE:
I NEED TO ASK A QUESTION.
MR. PARTYKA: YES. GO AHEAD.
.
.
.
69
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT PORTION THAT IS INVOLVED
IN YOUR STATE SWAP IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE FIXED.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND. IT SEEMS IT WOULD BE IN
CONFLICT WITH THIS ISSUE OF FLEXIBILITY FOR THAT
PORTION THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE DEDICATED TO
THE STATE.
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO
IMPORTANT TO US -- WHY IT WAS SO IMPORTANT. AND
AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE THAT WE CAME UP WITH THIS
10
CHANGE.
BUT, AS YOU KNOW, THIS DIDN'T USED TO BE
11
SOMETHING THAT WAS GOING TO BE GREEN SPACE.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF THE
DECEMBER OR NOVEMBER -- WHATEVER IT WAS
MEETINGS WITH VICTOR, THIS IDEA OF CREATING
TAKING THIS FINGER OF WETLANDS AND THIS WETLAND
AND RESERVING A GREEN SPACE TO CONNECT IT, TO KIND
OF CREATE A GATEWAY WHEN YOU'RE MOVING FROM THIS
AREA, PROBABLY MORE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, INTO
THIS AREA, PROBABLY MORE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT
AND VICE VERSA.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
lS
20
21
SO YOU'RE RIGHT.
ONCE THIS GETS AGREED TO
22
23
24
25
WITH THE STATE, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A SACRED
TERRITORY AND WHY IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE, FOR
EXAMPLE, THOSE EASEMENTS BUILT INTO THE GREENWAY
UP FRONT.
.
.
.
70
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
BY SLIDING THIS, INSTEAD OF HAVING THIS PIECE
I
OF PROPERTY SPLIT, YOU HAVE -- YOU KNOW, YOU'VE
GIVEN THE PEOPLE USING THE TRAIL A PERPETUALLY
GREEN VIEW ON ONE SIDE INSTEAD OF DEVELOPMENT ON
BOTH SIDES, AND IT'S A FIXED EDGE. WHEREAS, THIS
IS JUST FLOATING OUT IN SPACE.
LIKEWISE, TO HAVE THIS UNPAVED PART HUG THE
EXISTING WETLAND JURISDICTIONAL LINE IS, AGAIN, A
FIX~D LINE THAT --
MR. MCLEMORE: AND I'M REFERRING, MICHAEL, Tol
THE LAKE TRAIL PARK.
9
10
11
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT.
I THINK I CAN BE
13
MOR~ RESPONSIVE TO THAT. WHEN WE TALKED A30DT
14
15
MR. PARTYKA: TALK INTO THE MIKE.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ONE OF THE THINGS WE TA~KED
TO MS. WALKER ABOUT AND WE PUT INTO THIS LANGUAGE
THAT YOU'LL SEE IN THE LATEST DRAFT WAS THE OFFICE
OF GREENWAYS AND TRAILS DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM
WITH MINOR MODIFICATIONS TO THE ALIGNMENT OF THE
LOCATION OF THE TRAIL, PERIOD, PROVIDED THE COUNTY
AGREES THAT, YOU KNOW, WE BUILT --
MR. MCLEMORE: AND THE CITY AGREES.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, WE BUILT IN LANGUAGE
THAT YOU WOULD NOT OPPOSE FUTURE MINOR
MODIFICATIONS TO THE LOCATION OF THE TRAIL
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
.
.
.
1
PROVIDED IT DID NOT HAVE A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT OR
71
2
SOMETHING ON THE TOWN CENTER PLANS.
3
THE REASON FOR THAT WAS RIGHT HERE -- YOU'RE
4
RIGHT.
I MEAN, WE NEED TO -- WHEN WE DID THE
5
MAPPING SURVEY AND APPRAISING OF THE SWAP, WHICH
6
IS IMMINENT -- IT'S ALSO BEEN IMMINENT FOR SOME
7
TIME -- WE'RE GOING TO DO THE BEST WE CAN TO
8
LOCJ..TE THAT.
IT MAY SLIDE DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
9
MAY BE UP.
IT'S GOING TO CHANGE IN DIMENSIONS
10
ONCE YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THESE LITTLE
11
FINGERS OF ACREAGE.
ONCE THAT HAPPENS, WE'LL
12
A BETTER IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH.
13
NOvJ, ONCE IT'S IN THERE, IT MAY BE TEJ'.T IT
IT
,
I
I
I
HAVEl
I
14
HAS TO SLIDE UP 15 FEET, YOU KNOW, SIX YEARS FROM
~ -
.,L:;,
NOW OR TWO YEARS FROM NOW, OR DOWN 15 FEET.
l6
IT WILL BE A MINOR MODIFICATION.
17
AND OUR DISCUSSION WITH THE OFFICE OF
J..ND
18
j
GRE2NWAYS AND TRAILS IS THAT TEAT'S OKAY WITh THEMi
i
!
19
PROVIDED WE STILL MEET THE TWO-TO-ONE TEST, WE
20
STILL MEET THE EQUAL-TO-OR-GREATER-THAN VALUE
21
TEST, AND IT'S OKAY WITH THE MANAGER, WHICH WOULD
22
BE IN SEMINOLE COUNTY.
23
WE'RE ASKING YOU, DO YOU STILL -- IN OUR
24
AGREEMENT, YOU'D STILL HAVE INPUT.
YOU'D BE ABLE
25
TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT IT HAS A DETRIMENTAL
.
.
25
.
72
1
IMPACT ON THE CONCEPT OF THE TOWN CENTER PLANS.
2
SO YOU'RE PROTECTED. THE COUNTY'S PROTECTED. THE
3
OFFICE OF GREENWAY AND TRAILS IS PROTECTED. WE
4
HAVE SOME FLEXIBILITY THAT WE'RE ONLY ENTITLED TO
5
USE IF IT'S BONA FIDE MINOR MODIFICATIONS.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, I'M ASSUMING WHAT YOU'RE
7
SAYING IS IT REMAINS THE WAY IT IS ON THE PLAN
8
SUBJECT TO FUTURE MODIFICATION.
I MEAN, OR WE'LL
9
NEV2R GET THE EXHIBITS DONE.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE ONLY THING WE KNOW FOR
11
SURE T~AT WE CAN INCLUDE NOW AND MODIFY THOSE
12
EXHIBITS WHEN WE DO THE ~APPING SURVEY AND
- ~
l~
AP?2AISING IS, TO DAT2, THIS STU?F HAS JUST 3~2N
14
SEVERED, THROWN OUT TH2RE IN THAT ATMOSPHERE YOU
15
WER2 TALKING ABOUT.
IT WILL BE INCLUDED AT THIS
16
TI~E, BUT THAT WILL PROBABLY EAVE AN IMMEDIATE
17
IMPACT OF REDUCING' THE WIDTH OF THAT, BUT TE~N
1 ~
_0
WE'LL STILL EAVE TEE RIGHT TO SLID2 THAT THING UP
19
AND DOWN.
20
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S THE POINT I'M TRYING TO
21
MAKE SURE THIS COMMISSION UNDERSTANDSi THAT THAT
22
SECTION OF LAND POTENTIALLY GETS SMALLER.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE ACREAGE -- NET ACREAGE
24
WILL REMAIN THE SAME.
IT WON'T GO DOWN, BECAUS2
WE WON'T BE ABLE TO MEET THE STATE TEST BY TAKING
.
.
.
73
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
BUT INSTEAD OF BEING LONG AND SKINNY, IT
IT DOWN.
MAY BE SHORTER AND FATTER.
MR. MCLEMORE:
THAT'S 1.4 ACRES?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHATEVER IT IS.
MR. MCLEMORE:
IT'S 1.6 ACRES.
SO WHAT
YOU/RE SAYING IS WHEN YOU INCLUDE THOSE FINGERS
AND YOU MODIFY THAT SECTION, IT'S STILL GOING TO
BE 1.6 ACRES.
MR. GRI1':'DSTAFF:
THAT'S CORRECT.
NOW, THIS
WON/T BE 1.6 ACRES, BUT THIS IS GOING TO COME
HERE.
LET'S SAY THAT -- JUST FOR DISCUSSION
12
PURPOSES1 LET'S SAY THE FINGERS CONSTITUTE, YOU
13
K N 0i'J I . 7 A eRE S .
THAT MEANS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE .9
14
ACR~S SO~EW~ERE ALONG THERc, WHICH MIGHT 3E --
15
MIGHT MAKE IT THIS SKINNY.
OR IT MAY BE HERE AND
16
17
18
19
20
STAY THAT FAT.
THERE WILL STILL BE -- THE ACREAGE
TEST WILL STILL BE THERE, NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT
YOG'RE SAYING, BUT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO DO IT TO
MEET THE STATE TEST.
MR. MCLEMORE:
OH, I UNDERSTAND, MICKEY.
BUT
21
IT DOES -- NOTHING SAYS THAT YOU CAN MEET THE
STATE'S TEST AND STILL HAVE ANOTHER .2 OR .3 OR .4
ACRES IN ADDITION TO THE STATE TEST.
WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET THE COMMISSION TO
UNDERSTAND IS THAT CONFIGURATION COULD CHANGE
22
23
24
25
.
.
.
74
1
FAIRLY DRASTICALLY ONCE THOSE OTHER FINGERS ARE
2
INCLUDED IN THE EQUATION.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHICH STILL -- I THINK
4
THAT'S A CORRECT STATEMENT, BUT LET'S THINK ABOUT
5
WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THAT PARK.
IT WAS TO
6
PRESERVE THIS VISTA OVER THE TRAIL AND THROUGH THE
7
WOODS. YOU'RE STILL GOING TO BE -- THAT'S ALL
8
THAT WILL BE THROUGH THE TRAIL AND BE --
9
MR. MCLEMORE: AND TO GIVE AT LEAST A PIECE
10
I
I
AND THAT'S GOING TOI
,
I
I
BUT THE WAY IT'S SHOWN THERE GIVES YOU I
I
I
I
I
I
INTENDED TO BE - - WAS INTENDED I IN THE I
I
i
i
OF GROUND SOMEWHERE WHERE SOME TYPE OF PARK
11
ENV~~ONMENT COULD BE CREATED.
12
BE VERY DIFFICULT
ON LITTLE, SLENDER FINGERS OF
13
?~~O?::::\T'Y .
14
E !\i CJ "J G ~ A CKE..~ G r:
TO CREATE SOMETHING.
15
M:K. GRINDSTAFF:
BUT UNDERSTAND THAT CEUNK
- k
1 ~
.!;'GREED \'IAS
17
B2GINN~NG,
TWO-TO-ONE TEST REQUIRED
TO MEET THE
18
:3 y~
19
!Vj:K. MCLEMORE: I UNDERSTAND.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT'S NOT EVEN PART OF YOU:K
21
PARK STUFF THAT YOU
22
MR. MCLEMORE: UNDERSTOOD. BUT IN THE
23
DISCUSSIONS WHEN WE REDESIGN THIS WITH THE
24
CONSULTANTS AT THAT TIME, WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING A
25
PIECE OF LAND SOMEWHERE, THAT IT WAS BIG ENOUGH TO
.
.
.
75
1
CREATE SOME TYPE OF PARK ENVIRONMENT. AND THAT
2
CONFIGURATION ALLOWS YOU TO DO THAT. IT'S WIDE
3
ENOUGH.
IT'S BIG ENOUGH.
ONCE IT'S REDUCED DOWN
4
TO A LITTLE FINGER, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT HAPPENS
5
ANYMORE.
6
MR. PARTYKA:
IF I MAY INTERJECT NOW.
OKAY.
7
WE'VE BEEN -- IT'S KIND OF A BASIC DEBATE RIGHT
8
NOW.
I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO MOVE OFF
9
THIS FOR RIGHT NOW.
I THINK THE COMMISSIONERS
10
UNDERSTAND THE POINT HERE.
I THINK TEE
11
COMMISSIONERS EAVE SOME QUESTIONS, BUT WE NEED TO
12
MOVE FORWARD AT THIS POINT.
2.3
SO LET'S GET SOME OF THE COMMISSIONER INPUT,
14
AND WE APPRECIATE BOTH YOUR COMMENTS.
15
COMMISSION~R GENNELL.
16
MR. GRINDS~AFF: WE'VE COME A LONG WAY WITH
17
THIS, THOUGH.
18
MR. PARTYKA:
OH, WE UNDERSTAND THIS.
1 ~
...';j
BELIEVE ME, WE UNDERSTAND THIS.
20
COMMISSIONER GENNELL.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.
22
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WE MET ON THIS ISSUE?
23
MR. MCLEMORE:
IT WAS VALENTINE'S DAY.
24
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: VALENTINE'S DAY.
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
YOU WEREN'T HERE, I DON'T
.
.
.
76
1
THINK, COMMISSIONER.
I THINK THAT THAT MAY BE WHY
2
YOU FELT IT WAS LONGER THAN IT WAS.
ON
3
VALENTINE'S, THERE WERE A COUPLE PEOPLE MISSING.
4
MR. PARTYKA:
COMMISSIONER.
5
OKAY.
HAVE YOU-ALL
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
6
MET SINCE THEN OR HAD ANY CONFERENCE CALLS SINCE
7
THEN?
8
YES, MA'AM.
SOME, BUT, YOU
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
9
KNOW, NOT WEEKLY.
10
PLEASE JUST TAKE THE MIKE AND
MR. PARTYKA:
11
KEEP IT DOWN THERE.
THAT'S THE BEST THING.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, WE'VE HAD SOME, BUT NOT:
2.3
V\~E~~(I... Y .
ANTHONY AN~ I JUST HAD A NUMBER OF
14
CONVERSATIONS THAT WEEK OF FEBRUARY 14TH.
AND
1 ...
~~
LAST WEEK, WE SPOKE, AND THEN, OF COURSE, TODAY.
16
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
BUT YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN
17
TOGETESR WITH THE STAFF OR WITH THE CONSULTANT OR
- ...
, ~
WITH V-R. MCLEMORE OR ANYTHING SINCE THEN?
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TOGETHER
20
WITH THEM, NO~ MR. SCHRIMSHER HAS MADE A NUMBER
21
OF EFFORTS OR ATTEMPTS TO REACH MR. DOVER, WHICH
22
WAS A LITTLE BIT FRUSTRATING.
THIS WHOLE TOWN
23
CENTER THING BECOMES SORT OF PLANNING BY
24
MR. DOVER, BECAUSE WE CAN'T MAKE PROGRESS UNLESS
25
HE'S AVAILABLE A~D ABLE TO MEET WITH US, AND
.
.
.
77
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
STAFF, FOR THAT MATTER.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: WELL, DID I HEAR YOU
SAY THAT WE HAD MADE GREAT PROGRESS, ET CETERA, ET
CETERA, ET CETERA, AND THAT THERE WERE SOME THINGS
THAT YOU THOUGHT THEY WERE DOABLE?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, MA'AM, I DO THINK
THEY'RE DOABLE. I THINK MR. SCHRIMSHER WOULD
AGREE THAT THEY'RE DOABLE. BUT WE REMAIN FIRM
WITH OUR POSITION THAT WE DON'T WANT TO CONSENT TO
THIS ORDINANCE UNTIL OUR COMPANION AGREEMENT IS IN,
10
11
FINAL FORM, AS WELL.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY. MR. MCLEMORE.
M~. MCLEMORE: YES, MA'AM.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNE~L: DID YOU MAKE RE?ERENCE
TO THERE BEING M:NOR OUTSTANDING THINGS, BUT YOU
THOUG~T THEY COULD BE RESOLVED QUITE EASILY?
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, THE ONLY THING THAT WAS
REPRESENTED TO ME IN MY TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS
WAS THE REALIGNMENT OF THE PAVED SECTION OF THE
TRAIL. THERE HAS BEEN, I GUESS, SOME SUBSEQUENT
DISCUSSIONS WITH THE SCHRIMSHERS AND THE STATE
THAT HAVE RESULTED IN DISCUSSION OF THESE FINGERS
AND THE REFERENCES TO LAKE TRAIL PARK.
THAT, I WAS NOT AWARE OF WHEN WE ORIGINALLY
TALKED TO MICKEY ABOUT THE REALIGNMENT OF THE
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
.
.
.
78
1
THAT'S COME UP AFTERWARDS.
TRAIL.
2
AND AS I STATED BEFORE, I THINK THOSE THINGS
3
ARE WORKABLE WITH SOME FLEXIBILITY.
BUT I THINK
4
THE THING, AGAIN, IS -- AND I WANT YOU TO
5
UNDERSTAND -- THAT'S STILL 1.6 ACRES ON THE TABLE
6
WORTH APPROXIMATELY $250,000.
AND THAT'S THE .83
7
ACRES, WHICH WAS .A PORTIp~ -- If I C~N S~OW YOU
8
HERE.
THIS TRAIL WAS ORIGINALLY ACREAGE THAT WAS
9
GOING TO BE DONATED TO THE CITY OR ACTUALLY
10
SWAPPED WITH THE CITY IN CONSIDERATION FOR
11
INFRASTRUCTURE PRETTY MUCH ALONG HERE.
12
T~ERE'S .83 ACRES THERE, AND THERE'S THAT
13
FOUR-TENTHS INVOLVING
HERE, I BELIEVE
IT IS. SO
l~
THIS IS ON THE TABLE.
IT NEEDS TO
RESOLVED IN
B'l:'
.....
15
SOME WAY RELATIVE TO WHERE WE WERE ON VALENTINE'S
16
DAY IN TERMS OF WHAT WE AGREED TO D8, WHAT THEY
17
AGREED ':'0 DO.
1 .g
MR. GR::LNDSTAFF:
WE HAVE NO CLUE W~AT YOU'RE
19
SAYING, RON.
20
MR. MCLEMORE:
YOU SEE, THIS ACREAGE RIGHT
21
HERE WAS THE ORIGINAL ALIGNMENT OF THE TRAIL.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
YEAH.
THE
MOVE IT ON UP.
23
SAME ACREAGE -- YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO GET MORE
24
UP THERE FOLLOWING THE BLUE DOTTED LINE.
25
MR. MCLEMORE:
RIGHT.
BUT THAT ACREAGE IS
.
.
.
79
1
GOING ON PROPERTY WHICH YOU'RE ACQUIRING UNDER THE
2
AGREEMENT FOR YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE.
3
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WE'RE NOT ACQUIRING THE
4
PROPERTY.
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
HE'S TALKING TO THE
6
SO IT'S GOING ON OUR PROPERTY.
COMMISSION.
7
MR. MCLEMORE:
THIS IS PROPERTY
RIGHT.
8
WHICH, VALUE TO VALUE, IS SWAPPING LAND FOR
9
INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE WERE GOING TO G~T 8.3 ACRES
10
.83 ACRES HERE.
THAT NOW HAS BEEN PUT ON
11
PROP~RTY THAT, IF THIS AGREEMENT HA~ GONE THROUGH
12
THEN, WE WOULD OWN. AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS PIECE
.!..)
~...~--. ~
- - ..... ..."....... .
:::'4
SO IT'S ON TEE TABLE.
IT NEEDS TO BE
.l.:)
RESOLVED IN SOME WAY.
N O\~;, YOU M .z.\. Y K :: C KIT : NTH E i
16
AGRE2Iv:ENT.
IT'S NOT IMPORTANT.
FO?G2T ABOUT IT.
17
I'M SAYING IT'S ON THE TABLE.
IT HAS TO 3E
18
R~SOLVED, RELATIVELY RESOLVING THESE LAST ISSUES.
19
AND WITH THAT IN MIND -- AND I TH:NK WE'VE
20
TALKED ABOUT SOME FLEXIBILITY HERE -- YES, I
21
I
I
I
THINK KEEPING THESE -- WE DON'T WANT OUR PARK TO I
GO WAY OVER HERE AND COME DOWN HERE AND HAVE THREEI
THINK,
FOR ME, THEY'RE RELATIVELY MINOR ISSUES.
22
I THINK THE 250 IS A BIG ISSUE,
BECAUSE I
23
24
25
OF THEV. TOGETHER.
THERE NEEDS ~O BE SOME ZONING
.
.
.
80
1
OF THIS, WHICH WE ATTEMPTED TO DO WITH THE 250.
2
BUT I THINK THESE ISSUES CAN BE WORKED OUT. I
3
THINK THE MAIN ONE IS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO
4
RESOLVE HOW WE GET TO THIS.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE'RE NOT ATTEMPTING TO KEEP
6
A HOLD ON OR SNEAK AWAY .83 ACRES.
7
MK. MCLEMORE:
NO.
I DON'T SAY IT'S SNEAKING
8
ANYTHING. I'M SAYING IT'S ON THE TABLE FOR
9
DISCUSSION. I THINK IT HAS TO BE RESOLVED AS PART
10
OF THE FINAL RESOLUTION.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO PROBLEM WITH THAT,
12
MR. M.Z\.YOR.
WE'VE GOT
THE PURPOSE OF THAT
- ..,
.!...:>
RE.Zl.LIGNMENT WP.S TO 'KEEP ?KO!vj 3ISECTING T::AT 3IG
14
CHuNK OF PROPERTY WITH TEE TRAIL WHEN IT CAN MOVE
.1.:>
UP
IF THERE'S SOME NEED TO MAKE SURE WE MAINTAIN
16
THE ACREAGE EXPECTATION, NO PROBLEM.
17
I
BUT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY TEATI
EAS MR. DOVER AROUND IF THERE'S GOI~G TO BE SOME
:'8
19
SORT OF INPUT.
I MEAN, WE CAN'T BE PARALYZED BY
20
HIS P.BSENCE.
21
MR. PARTYKP.:
RIGHT.
I THINK WE'RE CLEAR ON
22
THAT.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE VICTOR DOVER ON YOUR
....":l
"-..-
CONFERENCE CALL OR MEETING OR WHATEVER.
IT'S VERYI
24
HELPFUL, I MUST SAY, TO HAVE HIM THERE TO RESOLVE
25
SOME ISSUES.
.
.
.
81
1
MR. MCLEMORE: NOW, WI~HIN THAT, I THINK WE
2
NEED TO GET TO THE PROCESS BY WHICH WE WIND THIS
3
DOWN AND WIND IT UP IMMEDIATELY.
4
THE QUESTION IS:
IS THAT GOING TO BE CITY
5
ATTORNEY, RON MCLEMORE, MICKEY GRINDSTAFF, AND
6
MICHAEL SCHRIMSHER OR IS IT GOING TO BE SOME OTHER
7
STRUCTURE? AND WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
8
I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO CONTINUE WORKING
9
\'1 I TH THEM.
I THINK THE ISSUE'S ON THE TABLE.
WE
10
UNDERSTAND THEM.
OR IS IT TIME TO BRING ONE OR
11
TWO COMMISSIONERS INTO THIS ACT AND SAY, WE'RE
12
GOING TO FINISH THIS THING? YOU HAVE THE INPUT OF
13
AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
IT'S DONE.
COME BACK TO
14
THIS BODY WITH A FINAL AGREEMENT.
SAY TEp.T/S IT.
1 -
-;:)
I WA~T TO GET THERE I~ TWO WEEKS.
I !)CN 'T h'p.NT TO
16
Br>
=..
nERE THREE WEEKS
FROM NOW.
17
THE NEXT COMV:ISSION MEETING, I WOULD LIKE TO
18
SEE THIS DONE.
I THINK MICKEY NEEDS TO KNOW THAT
19
WHATEVER COMES BACK TO THIS COMMISSION HAS GOT THE
20
ENDORSEMENT OF LAKE OFFICIALS, AND IT'S NOT GOING
21
ANY FURTHER.
22
AND WITH THAT POSITION, I THINK I PERSONALLY
23
WOULD LIKE TO SEE A COUPLE OF THE COMMISSIONERS AT
24
THE NEXT TABLE MEETING.
25
MR. PARTYKA:
LET'S GET SOME POINTS
OKAY.
.
.
.
82
1
OUT HERE FIRST.
2
COMMISSIONER GENNELL, YOU STILL HAVE THE
3
FLOOR.
4
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
THAT'S OKAY.
THANK
5
YOU.
SO WHERE THE BLUE LINE IS SHOWN AND WHERE
6
THE RED LINE IS SHOWN, ARE THOSE BOTH INTENDED TO
7
BE STREETS?
8
MR. MCLEMORE:
I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR
9
QUESTION.
10
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
I
WHERE THE ORIGINAL REDI
11
LIKE OF THE TRAIL WENT, IS THAT OVERLAID ON A
12
STREET OR IS THAT JUST --
13
rV:R. MCLEMORE:
SIDE OF A STREET, I 3ELIEVE IT
I
I
14
IS.
15
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
IT IS A STREET THERE?
16
MR. GRINDST.ZI.?F:
THAT'S ONE OF THE DIAGRAMS
17
THAT
MAY BE MOVED AROUND.
I
IT MAY BE MOVED AROUND,I
I
18
BUT
IT IS ALONG A CURRENT STREET.
1 c
- -'
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
WELL, IT'S ALONG A
20
CURRENT STREET.
AND BY MOVING IT, IT HAS A
21
POTENTIAL TO HAVE THAT STREET NEGOTIATED OUT IN
22
THE FUTURE SOMEhOW; IS ThAT RIGHT?
23
MR. SCHRIMSHER:
NO.
THAT'S PART OF SPINE
24
ROF.D.
25
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: WHICH ONE?
.
.
.
83
1
MR. SCHRIMSHER:
OH, THE RED ONE?
2
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
SHOW ME THE SPINE
3
ROAD, PLEASE.
4
MR. MCLEMORE:
KIP, IF YOU'D HELP OUT HERE A
5
LITTLE BIT.
6
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
OKAY.
SO THAT RED IS
7
THE SPINE ROAD?
8
MR. MCLEMORE:
YES.
THERE ARE THREE
9
ALTERNATIVES TO WHAT THE CITY WOULD DO AS FAR AS
10
INFR.Z\.STRUCTURE.
THIS IS THE FINAL
OR THE
11
POSITION WE FINALLY NEGOTIATED OUT AS TO WHAT WE
12
WOULD DO RELATIVE TO CONTRIBUTION OF
13
INFRASTRUCTURE, RE~ATIVE TO THEIR CONTR=3UTI~N OF
, I
.l"":
I..:.L.ND
15
IvlR. GRINDSTAFF:
I THINK THAT'S ONE EXHI3IT
16
hIE AGREED TO.
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
GO BACK, IF YOU WOULD,
18
KIP.
OK.Z\.Y.
WELL, I CONCUR WITH TEE 250 FEET,
19
BECAUSE I THINK 500 -- I MEAN, THE 250 SURPRISED
20
IV:2.
21
BUT I ALSO WOULD COMMENT THAT I DI~N'T SEE
22
ANYTH:NG IN THAT AGREEMENT THAT GAVE ANY LEEWAY TOI
I
23
MAKE THOSE CIRCULAR INSTEAD OF SQUARE.
24
I MEAN, IS THAT IN THERE, CHARLES? ARE THEY
25
MEASURED OUT SO EXACTLY THAT THEY COULDN'T BE
.
.
.
84
1
RECONFIGURED TO OVALS OR CIRCLES IF THAT WORKED
2
BETTER FOR A DEVELOPER?
3
SURE.
IT'S ACREAGE
MR. MCLEMORE:
SURE.
4
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRESERVING.
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
EXACTLY.
6
MR. MCLEMORE:
RIGHT.
7
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AS FAR AS THE BUFFER
8
OF THE WALL IN THE BACK GOES, BY ST. JOHN'S
9
LANDING, CAN YOU GIVE ME AN IDEA OF HOW WIDE THAT
10
TRAIL -- THE CORRIDOR IS, THE TRAIL CORRIDOR; NOT
11
THE PAVED OR UNPAVED PART, BUT THE ACTUAL WHOLE
::'2
TRAIL CORRIDOR OWNED BY THE STATE, WOULD BE
: ...,
THROUG:i THERE?
14
Iv; R. G R I N D S T .Zl.. F F :
CHARLES HAS A B~TTER GRIP
ONI
15
THAT THP"N WE DO.
WE THINK IT'S AROUND 30 FEET.
1 6
MR. C.Zl..RRINGTON:
IN THAT AREA -- IN THAT
17
AREA, IT'S APPROXIMATELY 100 FEET.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
THAT'S WHAT I THODGHT.
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER:
DO YOU
THAT'S NOT RIGHT.
20
WANT TO LOOK?
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
I THINK SHE'S TALKING ABOUT
22
WIDTH.
23
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
WELL, IT'S 100)
I
WIDTH.
24
FEET WIDE.
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
HOW LONG IS IT?
.
.
.
85
1
MR. CARRINGTON: OH, I'M SORRY.
I'M SORRY.
2
IT'S NOT 100 FEET.
IT'S 50 FEET.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF:
50 FEET.
4
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
THAT'S CLOSER TO IT.
5
MR. CARRINGTON:
YEAH, IT'S 50 FEET.
EXCUSE
6
ME.
7
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
NOW, JUST TO REMIND
8
YOU THAT I'M CHAIRMAN OF THE GREENWAYS AND TRAILS
9
ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR THE COUNTY, SO I'M A LITTLE
I
10
BIT FAMILIAR WITH THE WIDTH OF THE TRAIL GOING
11
THROUGH THESE PLACES.
12
AND THE ONLY CONCERN THAT I HAVE IN RELATION
13
~O TEE WALL OR TEE WIDTH OF THE TRAIL OR AKYTHING
14
IS TEAT IF YOU BUILD THE WALL SO THAT THE TRAIL IS
INSIDE THE WALL, I THINK YOU DEFEAT THE PURPOSE OFI
HAVING A TRAIL GO THROUGH THERE IN THAT YOU'RE
15
16
17
GOING TO RESTRICT ACCESS TO THAT TRAIL FROM
18
EVERY30DY IN T~E TOWN CENTER UNLESS THEY GO ~O
19
SO~E SPECIAL ACCESS POINT AT ONE END OR THE OTHER
20
OF THE WALL.
21
SECONDLY, I WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD
22
YOU CORRECTLY. WERE YOU ATTEMPTING TO SAY THAT
23
YOU WANTED TO COME TO SOME AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY
24
RELATIVE TO BUILDING THE WALL EITHER ON THE TRAIL
25
OR OFF OF THE TRAIL?
.
.
.
1
LAKE TRAIL PARK? IS THAT THE NAME OF IT?
88
WITH D.O.T.I
I
,
i
2
LAKE TRAIL, YES.
MR. MCLEMORE:
3
LAKE TRAIL, YES.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
4
BECAUSE I WAS JUST APPROACHED BY SOMEBODY IN THE
5
PUBLIC THE OTHER DAY ABOUT WHERE IS THE TRAIL
6
GOING TO BE FOR THAT AREA? AND I SAID IT WAS
7
BEING WORKED OUT RIGHT NOW. AND THAT RECALLS
8
TO THE CITY MANAGER'S COMMENTS ABOUT ARRANGING
9
PARKING AND SO FORTH AND ACCESS.
10
TEE DATE THAT YOU REFERRED TO IN JUNE FOR
11
D.C.T.?
12
rv: R. G R I N D S T A F F :
YES, MA'AM.
:'3
u;PJTY MAYOR GENNELL:
~1P..S TH..!\T FeR T:-I=:
14
PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS?
15
!v.:2. GRINDSTAFF:
1'1\1 SORRY.
I MISSED TE.z;'T.
16
I :2EALLY DON'T KNOW.
17
THE QUESTION WAS ABOUT THE PEDESTRIAN
18
OVERPASS AND THE TIMING FOR ITS DESIGN
19
COMIvjENCE!vjENT.
THAT WAS WHAT THE QUESTION WAS.
20
TEE ANS1fI1ER WAS:
THE ONLY DEADLINE THAT THIS
21
GENTLEMAN WAS AWARE OF WAS THE JUNE 30TH DEADLINE
22
FOR THE LOCAL AGENCY PROGRAM AGREEMENT
23
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL IS INCLUDED
IN TE.z;'T,
24
QUITE CANDIDLY.
25
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
BUT THEY ARE UNDER A
HEADI
I
3ACKI
I
I
FORi
i
i
.
.
.
89
1
GREAT DEAL OF TIME CONSTRAINT AT THE COUNTY TO
2
COME TO CONCLUSION ON THE PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS
3
LOCATION; A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT.
4
I DON'T KNOW.
CHARLES, DO YOU WANT TO ADD
5
SOMETHING TO THAT?
6
MR. CARRINGTON:
THANK YOU.
WE GOT OUR
YES.
7
INFORMATION FROM GINGER HOKE.
GINGER HOKE IS THE
8
COUNTY PLANNING MANAGER FOR THE TRAIL. AND SHE
CALLED TO ADVISE THAT IN ORDER TO UTILIZE THE ICEDj
9
10
TEA GRANT MONEY, THEY NEEDED TO GO TO DESIGN.
AND
11
THEY WERE PLANNING TO GO TO DESIGN IMMEDIATELY
12
AFTER THIS MEETING, WAITING TO SEE THE
L 0 CAT ION.
O 1="
- I
!
I
I
I
I
13
THE TRAIL.
YOUR
THAT'S WHY WE CALLED IT TO
:4
ATTENTION.
l5
NOW, IF THEY HAVE SOME TIME, SEE CERTAIKLY
16
DID NOT INDICATE THAT.
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
OH, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE
2.8
TALKING ABOUT.
I
I
OF THE I
SECTION\
THERE'S ICED TEA FUNDING 00T
19
THERE, AND THE COUNTY IS INVITING EACH ONE
20
MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE INVOLVED WITH THIS
21
OF THE TRAIL TO JOIN WITH THEM IN APPLYING FOR
22
ICED TEA FUNDING FOR THE WHOLE TRAIL.
23
MR. CARRINGTON:
THIS IS !CED TEA MONEY
NO.
24
::~:EH::L::::A::O::~NT::P::~::T:::NT::I:::D::R:::TI
25
.
.
.
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3
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5
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7
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12
13
SHOULD INVOLVE OUR STAFF.
NOW, THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE EXTENDED TO YOU
IS SHOULD WE HAVE ONE OR TWO COMMISSIONERS OR SOME
COMMISSIONER-ELECTED REPRESENTATION AT THAT
MEETING, BECAUSE I WANT TO CLOSE IT? IT'S BEEN MY
EXPERIENCE IN THESE EXTENDED NEGOTIATIONS THAT IT
WILL GO FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS UNLESS WE GET IT
TO THE POINT WHERE THE PARTIES UNDERSTAND THAT'S
THE END OF THE DEAL. WE'VE GOT TO GET THERE.
AND WE'RE DOWN TO THE LAST TWO OR THREE
THINGS. WE'VE GOT TO RESOLVE THEM IN ORDER TO GET
THIS DONE. I WANT TO GET IT DONE IN ONE MORE
MEETING.
SO I'M ASKING FOR YOUR WISDOM IN HOW WE
14
GET THERE FROM HERE IN TWO WEEKS.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY.
MR. MCLEOD: I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SIT ON
THAT, IF THIS COMMISSION SO DESIRES --
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. BLAKE:
MR. MCLEOD:
I WOULD, ALSO, MAYOR.
IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE THIS, GET
IT OVER WITH IN TWO WEEKS.
MR. MARTINEZ: I THINK THAT ANY ONE OF US
THAT WANTS TO SIT THERE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO SIT
THERE.
MR. MCLEMORE: OH, YES. THIS IS AN OPEN
MEETING ANYHOW. BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE A HERD OF
.
.
.
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5
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22
23
24
25
PEOPLE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE SOMETHING.
MR. MARTINEZ: NO. NO. JUST AS OBSERVERS.
MR. MCLEMORE: SURE.
MR. PARTYKA: WE AT LEAST HAVE TWO VOLUNTEERS
TO SIT IN ON THIS.
COMMISSIONER, ARE YOU FINISHED WITH THAT? DO
YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS IN TERMS OF YOUR POSITION ON
THIS?
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: NO. I THINK
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD AND COMMISSIONER BLAKE ARE
PERFECTLY ABLE. I JUST WANT TO EXPRESS AND
REITERATE OVER AGAIN THAT I'M OPPOSED TO ANYTHING
OVER 250 FEET. THAT'S A STRONG POSITION I HAVE.
OTHER THAN THAT, I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF
CONFIDENCE IN THEM AND THE STAFF AND
MR. SCHRIMSHER AND HIS REPRESENTATIVE TO COME TO
SOMETHING EQUITABLE.
MR. PARTYKA:
OKAY.
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD?
YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.
MR. MCLEOD: OKAY. ONE OF THE THINGS I
DOUBTFULLY (INAUDIBLE) ALLUDED IS THAT DEFINITELY,
BEFORE ANY OF THIS PROPERTY IS PASSED ON TO THE
TRAILS, IN MY NEGOTIATION WITH THE TRAILS,
DEFINITELY TIE UP THE EASEMENTS AND THE
FLEXIBILITY OF THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY FOR
.
.
.
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22
23
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25
EASEMENTS BETWEEN THE CITY NEEDS TO, ALONG WITH
PROPERTY OWNERS, BECAUSE THERE COMES A DIFFERENT
YEAR WHEN THEY OWN THE PROPERTY, AS I FOUND OUT.
SO LAKE TRAIL PARK, I WOULD ALSO UNDERSTAND
WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THERE, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
CITY HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO OWN FINGERS. BUT IN
OWNING FINGERS, BASICALLY WE'RE REDUCING THAT
PARK. I'M NOT SURE AS TO WHAT, IN FACT, THAT
HAS. I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED INTO.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S A STATE --
COMMISSIONER.
MR. MCLEOD: I UNDERSTAND. FIRST OF ALL, IN
THE BEGINNING OF YOUR COMMENTS TONIGHT, YOU
BASICALLY -- THE COMMENT WAS THAT IT DIDN'T MEET
THE TEST.
THE TEST THEN WAS MET BY HAVING THE
1.6, RIGHT? THE TWO-TO-ONE?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE STATE'S TEST, CORRECT.
MR. MCLEOD: THE STATE'S TEST, NOT THE CITY'S
TEST, NOR YOUR TEST. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I
THINK WE JUST NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT ARE WE
TALKING -- ARE WE TALKING SEVEN-TENTHS? ARE WE
TALKING FOUR-TENTHS? ARE WE TALKING 1.55 ACRES IN
THE FINGERS?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: SURE.
MR. MCLEOD: AND WHAT THAT IS -- THAT'S A
.
.
.
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25
GOOD POINT. I THINK BOTH SIDES NEED TO MAKE SURE
THAT'S NEGOTIATED TO THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL
PARTIES.
MY OTHER QUESTION: HAS THIS BRIDGE -- OR
THIS REALIGNMENT, I DON'T THINK, HAS CHANGED THE
LOCATION OF 434 WHERE THE BRIDGE PLANNED TO EVER
GO. I THINK IT'S STILL ALWAYS PLANNED TO BE AT
THE SAME LOCATION; AM I NOT CORRECT?
MR. MCLEMORE: AGREED.
MR. MCLEOD: OKAY. IN THIS MEMO THAT,
MR. MCLEMORE, YOU'VE GIVEN US, DOES COUNSEL ALSO
HAVE THAT, DO YOU KNOW?
MR. MCLEMORE: YES.
MR. MCLEOD: OKAY. SO IN THAT MEMO, FIRST
ISSUE HERE IS FROM THE SCHRIMSHER'S COUNSEL, THE
REALIGNMENT PAVED SECTION OF THE TRAIL. THIS IS
THAT .83 ACRES --
MR. MCLEMORE: RIGHT.
MR. MCLEOD: -- THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.
AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THERE'S ACTUALLY A
GREENWAY OF THE 2.3 ACRES THAT WAS TO BE DEDICATED
THERE TO THE CITY AS A GREEN BELT IN THERE TO GO
FROM THE ONE WETLANDS PARK TO THE OTHER WETLANDS
PARK THAT YOU SAW THROUGH THAT AREA.
MR. MCLEMORE: THERE IS A GREEN BELT THERE.
.
.
.
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MR. GRINDSTAFF: DID YOU ASK IF WE HAD A COPY
OF THAT MEMO?
MR. MCLEOD: YES, I DID.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, SIR, WE DON'T. WE DON'T
HAVE A COPY OF THAT MEMO.
MR. MCLEMORE: WHICH MEMO ARE WE TALKING
ABOUT?
MR. MCLEOD: TONIGHT'S MEMO.
MR. MCLEMORE: OH, YOU DON'T HAVE A COpy OF
THIS? I THOUGHT YOU TOLD ME YOU DID.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO.
MR. MCLEOD: THOSE ARE A COUPLE ISSUES THAT I
WAS GOING TO TOUCH ON.
MR. MCLEMORE: DO YOU WANT TO TAKE 30 SECONDS
TO READ IT SO YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS? IT'S PRETTY
SELF-EXPLANATORY,
MR. MCLEOD:
I THINK.
I THINK IT'S SOME OF THE
FINE-LINE THINGS AT THE END OF THESE NEGOTIATING
POINTS, AS I UNDERSTAND THEM, IS THE PASSAGE POINT
AT THIS TIME; IS THAT RIGHT?
MR. MCLEMORE: RIGHT.
MR. MCLEOD: OR AT LEAST BEFORE WE STARTED
THIS MEETING.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE .83 ACRES. THE
.
.
.
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ASSUMPTION THERE -- HE'S TALKING ABOUT, WELL, THE
TRAIL WAS GOING TO GO OVER THE SCHRIMSHER
PROPERTY. BUT, INSTEAD, NOW WE MOVED IT UP INTO
THE CITY PROPERTY AND, THEREFORE, .83 ACRES ARE
MISSING. WE'LL FIND A PLACE FOR THE .83 ACRES.
THAT WASN'T THE INTENT, NOR
MR. MCLEOD: YES. AND THAT'S THE POINT I WAS
TRYING TO MAKE HERE IS THAT THAT HAS TO BE WIDENED
OR SOMETHING THERE OR WHATEVER.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OR SOMEWHERE. OKAY. THERE
MAY BE ANOTHER PLACE. IT MAY BE THAT WHEN WE
SLIDE DOWN THIS TRAIL LAKE PARK, WE PICK UP SOME
OF IT THERE, PICK UP SOME OTHER ELSEWHERE.
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY. AND THESE ARE THINGS
THAT, NEXT TWO WEEKS, I THINK WILL BE WORKED OUT.
ON THAT ONE, ANYHOW, I THINK EVERYBODY'S IN
AGREEMENT THERE.
ELIMINATE PARKS. AND I UNDERSTOOD TONIGHT
THAT THE ONLY ONE THAT WE'RE -- 4 AND 5 HAS BEEN
TAKEN OFF THE TABLE.
MR. MCLEMORE: OFF THE TABLE.
MR. MCLEOD: MEANING THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE
ELIMINATED; IS THAT CORRECT?
MR. BLAKE: THEY STAY.
MR. MCLEMORE: THEY STAY.
.
.
.
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MR. MCLEOD: OKAY. WHICH WAS PARK "A" AND
"B." SO PARK 3, WHICH IS "F," WHERE IS THAT
LOCATED?
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S THE LITTLE TRIANGLE.
MR. MCLEOD: OKAY. THAT WAS MY QUESTION; IS
THAT TRIANGLE PARK IS "F"? AND THAT ONE BEING
MOVED OR
MR. LOCKCUFF:
MR. MCLEOD:
YES.
ELIMINATED DOES HAVE SOME KIND
OF A VALUE. OR AT LEAST NEEDS TO BE LOOKED INTO AS
TO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT TRIANGLE GOES AWAY.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: PLEASE NOTE THAT IT'S NOT
HIGHLIGHTED IN THE ACREAGE CALCULATION.
MR. MCLEOD: WHOSE HIGHLIGHT IS THAT? CITY'S
HIGHLIGHT?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, THE CITY'S.
MR. MCLEMORE: NO. IT'S IN THE PLAN. THAT
TRIANGLE IS IN YOUR PLAN AS ONE OF THE SIX PARKS.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT'S IN THE CODE, RIGHT.
WE'RE REQUESTING THAT THAT NOT BE THERE, BECAUSE
IT'S SHAVES OFF OF THE
MR. MCLEMORE: WE DISAGREE WITH YOU, SO WE
HAVE TO NEGOTIATE THAT ONE OUT IN SOME WAY.
MR. MCLEOD: OKAY. SO THAT'S STILL A
DISCUSSION POINT, I TAKE IT; IS THAT CORRECT?
.
.
.
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MR. GRINDSTAFF: SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSION
POINT.
MR. MCLEOD: I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING,
AND ITS LOCATION THAT IT'S NEXT TO.
THE LITTLE ONE DOWN AT .22 ACRES DOWN THERE,
IF YOU REALIGN -- AND BY READING THE MEMOS FROM
THE STATE, WHICH THEY BASICALLY HAVE SAID, IF I
READ THIS RIGHT, THAT THEY'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH
THE REALIGNMENT OF YOUR BLUE DOTTED AREA.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT IS CORRECT.
MR. MCLEOD: SO IF BEFORE THAT PARK IS SET
ALONG THERE -- THE ONLY PROBLEM THAT HAPPENS NOW
IF YOU DO MOVE THAT UP FOLLOWING THE REALIGNMENT,
WHICH WOULD SEEM TO MAKE SOME SENSE, BUT IT TAKES
IT OUT OF THAT COMMUNITY, IF THAT WAS A COMMUNITY,
WOULD THEN INCREASE THE 2.03 BY .22, PLUS THE
TRAIL THAT'S THERE, WHICH MIGHT MAKE THAT
SOMETHING THAT'S MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT AND MORE
USER FRIENDLY FROM BOTH PARTIES. SO THAT WOULD
MAKE SOME SENSE.
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S THE KIND OF THING WE
CAN TALK ABOUT.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE WERE OKAY WITH MOVING IT
UP ALONG WITH THE REALIGNED TRAIL AND LETTING IT
BE ON THE SOUTH SIDE, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED TO
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DO, OR LEAVING IT WHERE IT IS AND LET THE RADIUS
TEST -- BEFORE IT SHRUNK, LET THE RADIUS TEST DEAL
WITH IT.
MR. MCLEOD: I UNDERSTAND. THAT RADIUS TEST
KIND OF EXPLAINED -- THAT RADIUS TEST SAID THAT
YOU COULD MOVE IN A DIRECTION MEASURING AND
I'VE KIND OF -- IN ANY DIRECTION. NOW, IT WOULD
SEEM TO ME THAT WHEN YOU MOVE IT 250 FOOT IN ANY
DIRECTION, THEN YOU WOULD -- LET'S TAKE THAT
PARTICULAR .44 ACRE, AND IF YOU WAS TO MOVE THAT
NORTH, IS THAT RADIUS TEST THEN SAYING THAT YOU
WOULD --
KIP, YOU GOT THE POINTER THERE? CAN YOU
POINT AT THAT? YES. RIGHT THERE. IF YOU MOVE TO
THE BOTTOM, THE SOUTH SIDE OF THAT, RIGHT THERE,
THEN WOULD YOU USE -- IF YOU WAS MOVING THAT
NORTH, WOULD YOU USE THAT LINE AS YOUR 250 OR
WOULD YOU USE THE UPPER LINE AS YOUR 250? AND
DOESN'T THAT NEED TO BE DEFINED AS TO WHICH ONE IT
WOULD BE?
MR. GARGANESE: IT IS. THE DISTANCE SHALL BE
MEASURED BEGINNING FROM THE BOUNDARY OF THE
SUBJECT SQUARE THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE DIRECTION IN
WHICH THE SQUARE IS MOVING.
MR. MCLEOD: THAT'S CORRECT. I'M SORRY.
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SUBJECT TO THE SMALL SQUARES. OKAY.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE
BY THE -- AND I DON'T THINK THIS STATEMENT WAS
TOTALLY MEANT FOR THE WAY IT SOUNDS. THE CITY
MANAGER SAID THAT WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS KEEP --
WHEN WE ARE -- WHEN YOU ARE MOVING THESE AROUND,
THEY'RE SUBJECT TO CHANGING. BUT WE'RE TRYING TO
KEEP THE ACREAGE, AND I'D HATE TO SEE THAT .44
BECOME 150 FOOT WIDE FOR 900 FEET.
SO IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT THERE SHOULD BE
SOME KIND OF A MINIMUM SHRINKAGE FROM WHAT THE
INTENT IS (INAUDIBLE) TO THE INTENT. DOES THAT
MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, SIR. I DON'T THINK --
YOU KNOW, WE WEREN'T TRYING TO --
MR. MCLEOD: I DON'T THINK YOU ARE. AND I
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS COMMISSION -- I DON'T
THINK THIS COMMISSION INTENDS THAT, EITHER, AND I
JUST THINK THAT MAYBE
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK THE GLOBAL NOTION
HERE IS TO STIMULATE SOME TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT IN
THIS AREA OF THE QUALITY THAT YOU WANT TO SEE
HERE. AND IF A DONUT HOLE PARK IS AN IMPEDIMENT
TO THAT, THEN I THINK WE'RE ALL GOING TO WANT TO
GET RID OF THAT THING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. AND
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IT MAY BE THAT IT ENDS UP AT -- THAT .44 MAY END
UP AS A .3 AND A .14 AROUND THAT DEVELOPMENT
SOMEWHERE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU WANT TO -- WE STILL
HAVE TO MEET THE INTENT OF THE CODE. I THINK
THERE'S SOME LANGUAGE LIKE THAT IN THE --
MR. MCLEMORE: THE INTENT IS TO HAVE THE
PARK -- IS TO BE A WALKABLE FRIENDLY AREA. AND
THE INTENT IS TO HAVE THESE PARKS SPREAD OUT
THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT, NOT TO HAVE THEM
CONCENTRATED IN ONE PLACE, OBVIOUSLY.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO TAKE
THE RADIUS TEST AND SQUEEZE EVERYTHING OVER TO A
CORNER. WE UNDERSTAND THAT.
MR. MCLEMORE: NO.
MR. MCLEOD: YES. BECAUSE, REALLY, YOU STOP
AND THINK OF A .44 ACRE -- I MEAN, A HALF ACRE LOT
OF A HOME, IT'S NOT MUCH AREA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
HERE AT ALL. SO I THINK WE NEED TO
MR. MCLEMORE: THEY'RE NOT INTENDED TO PUT
BALL FIELDS ON THERE. IT'S INTENDED TO BE
TYPICALLY JUST LITTLE INTEREST POINTS WITH A PARK
BENCH.
MR. MCLEOD: A BENCH, A TREE THERE, A BIRD
FEEDER, I'M SURE.
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MR. MCLEMORE: DO YOU HAVE THE STATUTE,
MICKEY?
MR. GRINDSTAFF; MR. JOSHI.
MR. MCLEMORE: MR. JOSHI. OKAY.
MR. MCLEOD: COMMISSIONER GENNELL SPOKE ON
THE WALL. I THINK THAT -- NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING
OF THE WALL IS ONLY UP THERE AT THE TOP NORTHERN
SECTOR OF THIS THING, AND IT REALLY ISN'T -- YES,
IT'S JUST RIGHT THERE. AND I DON'T KNOW. IT
WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT
THIS DEVELOPMENT IS CREATING THE PROBLEM.
THEREFORE, THIS DEVELOPMENT, OVERALL, SHOULD BE
THE ONE WITH THE WALL UP THERE. WHICH I THINK
YOU -- WELL, YOU NATURALLY AGREED TO, BUT IT WOULD
SEEM THE TRAIL STILL NEEDS TO BE ON THIS SIDE OF
THE WALL, I WOULD THINK.
SO I THINK PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS THE
COMMISSIONER, THE TRAIL NEEDS TO BE SOUTH OF THE
WALL. I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE POINTS.
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY
AGREE THAT WE'RE CREATING A PROBLEM AND I'M NOT
SURE -- FRANKLY, I'M NOT SURE, IF YOU TOOK A POLL,
IF THIS TURNS OUT AS WONDERFUL AS EVERYBODY HOPES,
IF THE CITIZENS THAT LIVE IN ST. JOHN'S LANDING
MIGHT NOT WANT TO BE ABLE TO BE -- I MEAN, I DON'T
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KNOW. IF YOU TAKE A VOTE, THEY MAY WANT TO HAVE
ACCESS TO
MR. MCLEOD: THEY PROBABLY ALL WANT WALL
OPENING AND GATES, MR. SCHRIMSHER.
MR. SCHRIMSHER: EXACTLY. AND FOR THAT
REASON, TOO, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO WANT
THEIR RETENTION POND WALLED OFF, FOR EXAMPLE, FROM
THE TRAIL OR IF IT'S MORE GOING TO BE THEIR
BACKYARD SWING SETS AND SANDBOXES THAT THEY WANT
TO PROTECT. THERE ISN'T, APPARENTLY, A CURRENT
REQUIREMENT IN THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS TO HAVE
A WALL BETWEEN SINGLE FAMILY, MULTIFAMILY, OR THE
CITY WOULDN'T BE ENTERTAINING PASSING THAT
ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW.
MR. MCLEMORE:
NEGOTIABLE PART.
MUCH SOME OF THE
OKAY. WELL, THAT AGAIN IS A
I UNDERSTAND. SO THAT'S PRETTY
I WANTED TO KIND OF RUN DOWN
THIS LIST AND TRY TO FIND OUT WHERE THIS PARK 3/F
WAS, AND NOW I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT ONE IS. SO
THANK YOU.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. THANK YOU.
OKAY. COMMISSIONER BLAKE AND THEN
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ. WE NEED TO GAIN SOME KIND
OF CONCLUSION HERE.
MR. MCLEOD: OH, MAYOR/ I DO WANT TO MAKE ONE
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COMMENT. I DO BELIEVE IT'S VERY IMPORTANT,
BECAUSE I ALSO MADE A CALL TO THE CITY MANAGER
TODAY. IT'S VERY HARD TO TRY TO GO THROUGH THIS
DOCUMENT AND NOT HAVE THE EXHIBIT WITH THE
DOCUMENT TO REVIEW IT TO THE DOCUMENT. AND SO/
THEREFORE, I'M VERY MUCH IN AGREEMENT OF THESE
BLANKS BEING FILLED IN, ACREAGES BEING FILLED IN,
SO THAT WE GET DOWN AND WE GET THIS THING AS
PINPOINTED AS IT CAN BE WITH THE DOCUMENT.
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO DO
UNTIL WE FINISH THE NEGOTIATIONS.
MR. MCLEOD: WELL, I THINK THAT SHOULD HAPPEN
IN TWO WEEKS.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY.
THANK YOU.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
MR. BLAKE: THANK YOU, MAYOR. MOST OF MY
ISSUES, I THINK, HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORTH ALREADY.
WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS WALL ISSUE -- IN
FACT, THE WALL MAY NOT BE NEEDED. IT DEPENDS ON
WHAT USES HAPPEN TO BE SOUTH OF THE TRAIL RIGHT
THERE. IF IT HAPPENS TO BE LOWER DENSITY
DEVELOPMENT/ THEN OUR ORDINANCE DOESN'T REQUIRE
IT. AND THEN WHAT YOU HAVE IS THE BUFFER,
WHATEVER BUFFER AREA IS THERE.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH UTILIZING THAT
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PORTION OF THE TRAIL RIGHT-OF-WAY AND COUNTING
THAT AS THE BUFFER.
THE ISSUE OF TRIANGLE PARK, I'M CALLING IT,
THE .4 ACRES DOWN THERE, I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT
LOSING THAT ACREAGE THAN I AM ABOUT HAVING THAT
ACREAGE AS A PARK RIGHT THERE. I WOULD NOT WANT
TO SEE IT MOVED TOO FAR. BUT THE LOSS OF ACREAGE
OF THE PARK, I THINK, WOULD BE OF GREATER CONCERN
TO ME.
I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE PARK JUST TO THE
SOUTHWEST OF THEREI THAT .22, WHICH IS, I GUESS,
PARK liB. II I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT PARK
GETTING PUSHED UP TO THE NORTHEASTI BASICALLY
LEAVING THAT ENTIRE LOWER QUADRANT DEVOID OF ANY
PARK AREA AT ALL.
I THINK THE KEY ELEMENT OF THE PLAN IS TO
HAVE THAT -- SMALL AS IT MAY BE, QUARTER OF AN
ACRE TO HAVE THAT LITTLE PIECE OF GREEN SPACE
AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH CREATES THAT
OASIS AND THE OVERALL ELEMENT, I THINK, THAT WE/RE
TRYING TO ACHIEVE HERE. SO I'M SOMEWHAT CONCERNED
ABOUT THAT ISSUE.
MOVING THE TRAIL. WHAT I SEE AS THE GREATEST
BENEFIT TO THE SCHRIMSHER ORGANIZATION IN MOVING
THE TRAIL TO THE BLUE LINE IS IT CREATES ONE HUGE
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PIECE OF PROPERTY UP THERE ON 434. THAT CAUSES ME
SOME CONCERN AS TO WHO THE INTENDED USER MAY BE
THERE. YOU CHUCKLE, BUT THAT CAUSES ME SOME
CONCERN, SO I HOPE --
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OUR PROPERTY HAS SHRUNK
SINCE THE DAY YOU-ALL STARTED PLANNING THIS TOWN
CENTER. DON'T WORRY ABOUT --
MR. MCLEOD: IT SHOULD BE GROWING.
MR. SCHRIMSHER: AND ALSO, IF ONE PERSON BUYS
A LARGE TRACT, THEY/RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ZERO
GREEN SPACE. THERE WILL BE AN OASIS. I THINK
THEY'LL BE REQUIRED. I THINK IT IS REQUIRED. FOR
EXAMPLE, EVEN IF IT WERE -- PICK ANY AREA AND SAY
IT'S A MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT, THEY/RE GOING TO
HAVE SOME KIND OF A GREEN SPACE WITHIN IT.
WHAT THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE IS A PUBLIC PARK
INSIDE THEIR BOUNDARY WITH A PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY
THAT GETS EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T LIVE THERE INSIDE
THEIR DEVELOPMENT. BUT TO HAVE A PUBLIC SPACE
ADJACENT TO THEM, BESIDE THEMI WOULD BE DESIRABLE.
MR. BLAKE: I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING
AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THAT. BUT THE ENTIRE
CONCEPT, I THOUGHT, OF THE TOWN CENTER WAS TO BE
WHERE, IF YOU DID HAVE SOME SORT OF A MULTIFAMILY
DEVELOPMENT IN THERE, IT WOULD BE OF THE OLD
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TRADITIONAL TYPES THAT ARE ACTUALLY WITHIN AN OPEN
NEIGHBORHOOD, NOT WHAT WE SEE IN COURTNEY SPRINGS
WHERE IT'S ALL KIND OF FENCED OFF IN A
COMPOUND-TYPE ISSUE, WHERE IF YOU GO IN THERE,
IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING THERE. YOU'RE NOT GOING
THROUGH THERE.
WHEREAS, THE TOWN CENTER ELEMENT, I THINK,
REALLY, TRADITIONALLY, HAS THE PASS-THROUGH ASPECT
OF IT. IT IS, INDEED, A COMMUNITY OF DIFFERENT
TYPE USES ALL PLACED TOGETHER.
AND FROM THAT STANDPOINT, I THINKI IN FACT,
YOU COULD HAVE A PUBLIC SPACE, EVEN AS SMALL AS A
QUARTER OF AN ACRE, SOMEWHERE THROUGH THERE TO
HELP FACILITATE THE MOVEMENT OF PEDESTRIANS OR
KIDS ON BIKES OR ROLLER BLADES OR WHAT HAVE YOU
AND REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF HARMONIOUS
PEOPLE SETTING AS OPPOSED TO THE COMPOUND-TYPE
ASPECT.
I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO
HERE. WE NEED TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX A LITTLE
BIT. MULTIFAMILY HOUSING UNITS THESE DAYS OR
DEVELOPMENTS TEND TO BE IN A COMPOUND SORT OF
FASHION. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING NOT TO
DO HERE. IT REALLY TENDS TO BE MORE OPEN. SO
THAT WOULD BE MY CONCERN THERE.
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BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THE MOVING OF THE TRAILI
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE .83 ACRES. MR. GRINDSTAFF
HAS SUGGESTED THAT WE CAN DISCUSS THAT. WE CAN
I'M COMFORTABLE
FIND A WAY TO REPLACE IT SOMEHOW.
WITH THAT.
THE RADIUS ISSUE. LOOKING AT THE SCALE,
SEEING WHAT'S THERE, I'M REALLY AND I'M THE ONE
THAT CONJURED UP THIS LITTLE SCHEME. I'M REALLY
GOING TO HOLD STRONG TO THE 250 FEET OVERALL. YOU
MAY BE ABLE TO BEND MY ARM A LITTLE BIT ON THAT
.44 ACRES GOING NORTH OR SOUTH OR MAYBE COMING UP
WITH AN ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION OF, PERHAPS, YOU
KNOW, MOVING IT IN ONE DIRECTION AND UTILIZING
THAT .4 ACRE SPOT IF SOME OF THAT 1.23 ACRES THAT
WE'RE LOOKING TO RECOVER AS A SOLUTION.
BUTI AGAIN, THE OVERALL ASPECT OF NOT HAVING
ALL OF THE PARK AREAS ALL IN ONE CORNER IS VERY,
VERY CRUCIAL, IN MY EYESI TO THE TYPE OF
DEVELOPMENT WE HAVE.
MR. MANAGER, I THINK WE'VE COME -- I ALMOST
CHUCKLE WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHERE WE WERE THREE OR
FOUR YEARS AGO. AND I REMEMBER MR. SCHRIMSHER
COMING UP HERE AND TALKING ABOUT THAT 4 INCH TREE
AND HOW -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN DO THIS
DEVELOPMENT AND HAVE THIS 4 INCH TREE. WE NEED IT
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TO BE 3 INCHES -- AND WHERE WE'VE GOTTEN TO IN
THAT ENTIRE TIME AND THESE VOLUMES THAT MICKEY
DROPS OFF FROM TIME TO TIME THAT I'VE EVEN LOOKED
INTO ONCE OR TWICE. IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING.
MR. MCLEMORE: THEY'RE GREAT FIREWOOD.
MR. BLAKE: NOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO BURN
THESE.
MR. MCLEOD: FIRE STARTER.
MR. BLAKE: WE'VE COME A TREMENDOUS DISTANCE
AND WE'VE LEARNED A LOT AND ADJUSTED A LOT AND
CHANGED A LOT. AND QUITE FRANKLY, THE SCHRIMSHER
ORGANIZATION, I THINK, HAS COME A LONG WAY, ALSO.
I'M REALLY PROUD OF WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
I WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS THING DONE AND PUT
IT TO BEDI AS WELL. I DO AGREE THAT WE NEED TO
GET ALL THESE THINGS FINALIZED. WE NEED TO FILL
IN THE BLANKS, CROSS THE T'S, DOT THE I'S. LET'S
SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE I NEED TO ADD. YEAHI
CROSS THE X'S AND THAT'S IT.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. THANK YOU.
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
MR. MARTINEZ: I'LL TRY NOT TO BE AS BLUNT AS
I USUALLY AM. HOWEVER, THERE BEING FOR OVER
ONE YEAR, THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE AGREEMENTS HERE,
VERBAL AGREEMENTS, BETWEEN BOTH SIDES ABOUT
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MEETING PERSONALLY AND DISCUSSING THIS ISSUE, SO
WE CAN COME -- SO YOU CAN COME BEFORE THE
COMMISSION WITH A FINAL AGREEMENT THAT'S
ACCEPTABLE TO ALL. AND UP TO DATE, THAT HASN/T
HAPPENED.
WHAT I HEAR IS THAT YOU'RE HAVING TELEPHONE
CONFERENCES. WELL, I BELIEVE IN
EYEBALL-TO-EYEBALL TYPE OF A CONFERENCE WHERE YOU
CAN SIT DOWN AND SPREAD THE PAPER ON THE TABLE AND
YOU CAN EXPRESS YOUR IDEAS AND HE CAN COME BACK
WITH HIS COUNTERS. AND THAT HASN'T HAPPENED.
I DON'T KNOW WHOSE FAULT IT IS, BECAUSE
WHENEVER THIS ISSUE COMES UP, THE MANAGER STATES
ON THE RECORD WHAT HE HAS DONE AND THE OTHER SIDE
COMES UP AND SAYS, NO, THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT IS.
WE HAVEN'T BEEN INVITED. THIS HASN/T HAPPENED.
BUT 11M GLAD TO SEE THAT THERE'S SOME FORWARD
MOVEMENT HERE.
HOWEVER, WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN SAID
HERE TONIGHT YOU TAKEI FOR EXAMPLEI THE TRAIL
ALIGNMENT AS IT STANDS THERE. YOU TALK ABOUT THE
FINGERS. I'LL CALL THEM SLIVERS OF LAND. WHEN
YOU SAID YOU HAVE TO MEET THE STATE TEST AND COME
UP WITH TWO-TO-ONE OF EQUAL VALUE, 11M NOT AN
APPRAISER, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THE LAND, THOSE
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SLIVERS OF LAND TO THE -- WOULD THAT BE THE
WEST -- TO THE WEST OF THE TRAIL ARE NOT WORTH
MUCH.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
MR. MARTINEZ: OR EAST
EAST.
ARE NOT WORTH MUCH
BASED ON WHAT I SEE FROM HERE. AND I'M NOT AN
APPRAISER.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: PART OF THE TEST IS VALUE.
THE OTHER PART IS ACREAGE.
MR. MARTINEZ: BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME VALUE.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT TO BE OF THE SAME VALUE, YOU
HAVE TO COME UP WITH THREE-TO-ONE WITH THE LAND
THAT YOU HAVE EAST OF THE TRAIL.
BUT THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF LAND THERE
IS THAT 2.2 ACRES AT THE BOTTOM, WHICH HASN'T BEEN
DISCUSSED AT ALL.
BUT THIS IS MY OPINION THAT YOU ARE GIVING US
SLIVERS OF LAND THAT I THINK THE CITY WOULD BE
BETTER OFF DESIGNATING THAT CONSERVATION FOREVER
AND ALLOW THE PEOPLE ON THE TRAIL TO USE IT FOR
DIFFERENT THINGS AS THEY TRAVEL BY.
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WE'RE NOT GIVING THEM TO
YOU. WE GIVE THEM TO THE STATE OF FLORIDA.
MR. MARTINEZ: WHOEVER YOU GIVE IT TO.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT HAS TO MEET THE EXCHANGE
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TEST AND THE VALUE TEST. AN INDEPENDENT APPRAISER
HAS DETERMINED THAT VALUE TEST. WE HAVE NO INPUT
OR SELECTION OF THE APPRAISER. THE STATE DOES
THAT.
MR. MARTINEZ: I'M EXPRESSING MY OPINION.
THE TRAIL PARKI I DON'T SEE WHY WE SHOULD
GIVE THAT UP. I MEAN, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO MOVE IT
DOWN, SLIDE IT DOWN, SO IT MATCHES THAT LONG
SLIVER OF LAND OVER THERE SO YOU MAY BE ABLE TO
USE IT, LIKE COMMISSIONER GENNELL SAID, MAYBE A
TRAIL HEAD AND PARK AT THE SAME TIME. I DON'T
KNOW IF THAT CAN BE DONE, BUT I DON'T SEE GIVING
THAT UP.
YOU SEEM SOMEHOW TO CONTRADICT YOURSELF. YOU
SAY THAT YOU CAN MOVE THAT LITTLE PARK OVER
THERE -- THAT'S 2.2 -- AND MOVE IT UP TO WHERE
YOUR TRAIL REALIGNMENT COMES UP WHEN THERE'S
ALREADY TWO PARKS OVER THERE. YOU SAY THAT YOU
COULD TAKE THE .45 AT THE TOP AND SLIDE IT DOWN
CLOSER TO THE .44 WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE A PARK,
WHICH IS CALLED TRAIL PARK, NEAR THERE. SG WHAT
YOU'RE DOING IS TRYING TO BUNCH UP ALL THESE PARKS
TO YOUR BENEFIT, I GUESS.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ONLY IF WE WOULD LIKE TO NOT
SELL LAND WOUL~ WE DO WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED.
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MR. MARTINEZ: YES. I UNDERSTAND. AND THEN
YOU HAVE YOUR NEW REALIGNMENT OF THE TRAIL. IF
YOU LOOK AT THIS NEW REALIGNMENT, IT DOES NOT
COINCIDE WITH THE OLD REALIGNMENT, BECAUSE NOW
AND I'D LIKE TO ASK MR. CARRINGTON OR THE CITY
MANAGER WHERE THAT ENCLAVE THERE IS, THAT 2.03; IS
THAT CORRECT? 2.03. RIGHT THERE. IS THAT A
PARK?
MR. MCLEMORE: 2.03, YES.
MR. MARTINEZ: IS THAT A PARK?
MR. MCLEMORE: I THINK IT'S PART OF THE MAIN
WETLAND PARK DEDICATION.
MR. MARTINEZ: SO HERE WE HAVE -- YOU ARE
REQUESTING A NEW REALIGNMENT. AND INSTEAD OF
TRAVELING THROUGH, AS IT DID ON THE ORIGINAL
REALIGNMENT, NOW YOU'RE CUTTING INTO OUR PARK OR
OUR WETLAND. THAT'S WHAT HE/S CUTTING THROUGH.
AND YOU/RE COMING AROUND AND YOU SPLIT -- I MEAN,
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SPLIT PROPERTY -- YOU SPLIT
THE OTHER PARKI AT THE END OF YOUR TRAIL
REALIGNMENT, IN TWO.
AND THEN YOU WANT US TO GIVE UP THE SMALLEST
SLIVER AT THE END OF YOUR REALIGNMENT WITHOUT
POSSIBLY GIVING US AN IDEA AS TO WHERE YOU INTEND
TO NEGOTIATE A REPLACEMENT OF THAT PIECE OF LAND
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THAT YOU DON'T WANT THERE. AND I KNOW THAT SOME
COMMISSIONERS MAY NOT REMEMBER, BUT THAT HAS BEEN
DISCUSSED A COUPLE OF TIMES HERE IN THE PAST WHEN
WE HAVE DISCUSSED THIS PRESENTATION.
SO, AGAIN, I WOULD SAY THE SAME THING THAT I
SAID THE LAST TIME. THE BOTTOM LINE IS
NEGOTIATION. OKAY. IT'S A GIVE-AND-TAKE TYPE OF
SITUATION. IT'S NOT ALL FOR ME AND NOTHING FOR
YOU. AND I THINK THAT IF YOU DO WHAT THE MANAGER
IS SUGGESTING AND YOU GET YOUR PEOPLE TOGETHER IN
A FACE-TO-FACE, SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE WITH THE
PAPERS SPREAD OUT, I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO
PHASE OUT ALL THESE ISSUES AND COME BACK TO US IN
TWO WEEKS WITH A FINAL AGREEMENT THAT'S ACCEPTABLE
TO BOTH SIDES.
I WOULD ADD TO THIS THAT THIS HAS BEEN A LONG
TIME. ALTAMONTE SPRINGS AND CASSELBERRY ARE
ALREADY MOVING ON A TOWN CENTER. AND WE DECIDED
THREE YEARS AGO AND ARE STILL STUCK IN DISCUSSION
ON HOW TO SETTLE THIS ISSUE. I THINK WE HAVE TO
MOVE THIS FORWARD AND I WOULD LIKE THE COMMISSION
TO CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY OF APPROVING THE TOWN
CODE CENTER IN TWO WEEKS FROM NOWI REGARDLESS OF
WHAT YOU PEOPLE DECIDE TO DO WITH THIS AGREEMENT.
THANK YOU.
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MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. THANK YOU.
COMMISSIONER MILLER.
MR. MILLER: NOT MUCH LEFT TO BE SAID. JUST
TWO ITEMS ON THE CONTRACT. THE FIRST ONE IS FOR
STAFF. ITEM 9, EAST MARKET SQUARE PARCEL, IT SAYS
THAT WILL PROVIDE 45,000 SQUARE FEET FOR AN ANCHOR
STORE AND AN ADDITIONAL 45,000 SQUARE FEET FOR
RETAIL SPACE.
IS THAT TIED SOMEHOW TO THE ORIGINAL PLAN
THAT WE LOOKED AT?
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT WAS TIED TO THE REGIONAL
MARKETING ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE. I BELIEVE WE
CAME UP WITH APPROXIMATELY 9,000 SQUARE FEET OF
RETAIL SPACE.
MR. MILLER: SO THAT'S BOILERPLATE.
AND THEN THE PARKING IS ALSO-- SO WE/RE
TALKING ABOUT A PARKING GARAGEI I GUESSI IF WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE 500 -- I FIGURED OUT ABOUT 450
SPACES.
MR. MCLEMORE: ALL THE LANGUAGE WAS
NEGOTIATED OVER WEEKS WITH THE SCHRIMSHERS, WITH
US, AND WITH VICTOR DOVER.
MR. MILLER: THAT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL
DOCUMENTS THAT WE LOOKED AT A YEAR OR TWO BACK?
MR. MCLEMORE: NO. THIS
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MR. MILLER: IS THIS AN INCREASE OR A
DECREASE? DOES IT MANDATE A PARKING GARAGE?
MR. MCLEMORE: NO.
MR. MILLER: I'LL HOLD YOU TO THAT.
THE SECOND --
MR. MCLEMORE: EVEN THOUGH PARKING GARAGES
ARE QUITE USEFUL IN TOWN CENTERS.
MR. MILLER: THE SECOND ITEM, I GUESS, ALSO
TO STAFF AND ALSO FOR MICHAEL SCHRIMSHER, I GUESS,
IS THE ITEM 14, CONNECTION OF TUSKAWILLA ROAD.
WE'RE AGREEING TO PUT IN A ROAD BEHIND THE MOBILE
STATION.
THAT WOULD BE ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE
INTERSECTION OF 434 AND TUSKAWILLA; IS THAT
CORRECT? IS THAT THE MOBILE STATION WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT?
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YES.
IT'S NOT THAT YOU'RE
AGREEING TO DO ANYTHINGI JUST TO COOPERATE WITH
THE
MR. MILLER: YEAH. WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE
OF THAT?
MR. SCHRIMSHER: SEE, WHAT IT DOES, IT
PROVIDES A CONNECTION WITH THAT FRONTAGE ROAD.
IT'S SOMETHING VICTOR DOVER HAS ALSO LOOKED AT AND
THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA, TOO, BECAUSE FOLKS
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WOULDN'T BE FORCED TO GO UP AND TURN THROUGH THE
INTERSECTION OF 434 IF THEIR DESTINATION WAS JUST
TO GO AROUND THE MOBILE AND ENTER. IT GAVE THEM
AN ALTERNATIVE COMING UP TUSKAWILLA.
MR. MILLER: OKAY. JUST IN CONCLUSION -- I
THINK I'M THE LAST ONE SPEAKING. THE CITY MANAGER
DOESN'T HAVE HIS LIGHT ON. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO
SUPPORT WHAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE SAID ON
THE 250 FOOT. THE INTENTION WAS TO HAVE A LOT OF
SMALL PARKS IN A SPACE THROUGHOUT THE CITY
THROUGHOUT THE TOWN CENTER, SO I VERY ACTIVELY
SUPPORT THAT, ALSO. I THINK THAT/S IT.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY.
COMMISSIONER GENNELL, YOU HAD YOUR LIGHT ON.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YES. I HAVE ONE OTHER
QUESTION. CHARLES, I HEARD SOMETHING A LITTLE
WHILE AGO THAT CONCERNED ME, SO I WANT TO ASK
YOU. WHEN I READ THIS AGREEMENT THAT WE HAD IN
OUR PACKET TONIGHTI WAS THAT DONE BY YOU,
MR. GARGANESE? THE AGREEMENT, THE PROPOSED
AGREEMENT THAT'S IN HERE.
MR. GARGANESE: THE PROPOSED AGREEMENT IS A
COMPILATION.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL:
IT WAS FAXED FROM YOUR
OFFICE?
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MR. GARGANESE: YES.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY. ONE OF YOU TELL
ME: IS THERE SOMETHING IN THERE -- DID I MISS
IT -- THAT REQUIRES THOSE LITTLE PARKS, IF THEY'RE
MOVED ON THIS RADIUS OR WHATEVER, REQUIRES THEM TO
REMAIN INTACT?
MR. GARGANESE: INTACT?
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: RIGHT. NOT BROKEN
INTO PIECES DOWN THE ROAD.
MR. MCLEMORE: THE AGREEMENT CALLS FOR SIX
PARKS.
MR. GARGANESE: RIGHT.
MR. MCLEMORE: SIX PARKS.
MR. GARGANESE: THEY CAN BE CHANGED AS
DEPICTED ON THE TOWN CENTER MAP. BUT THEY HAVE TO
BE COMPARABLE -- OR EQUAL OR GREATER TO WHAT'S
SHOWN ON THE PLAN OR WITH RESPECT TO DESIGN AND
VALUE.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: SO THEY CANNOT BE
BROKEN UP IN ANY SMALLER SEGMENTS, ANY ONE OF
THEM?
MR. GARGANESE: WELL, THE AGREEMENT DOESN'T
SPECIFICALLY SAY THATI BUT IT HAS TO BE OF EQUAL
OR GREATER VALUE OR DESIGN.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: WELL, I WOULD LIKE FOR
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THE AGREEMENT TO IDENTIFY THAT IN THERE, THAT THEY
JUST CAN'T BE BROKEN DOWN ANY SMALLER. I THOUGHT
I HEARD SOME REFERENCE HERE EARLIER THIS EVENING
TO PUTTING A PIECE OVER HERE AND A PIECE OVER
THERE AND I JUST WANT TO AVOID THAT DOWN THE ROAD
WITH SUBSEQUENT DEVELOPERS, SUBSEQUENT
COMMISSIONS. BECAUSE WE'LL LOSE THE EFFECT OF
HAVING THOSE PARKS IF THEY'RE ALLOWED TO BE
SPLINTERED UP IN ANY SMALLER PORTIONS THAN WHAT
THEY ARE. THANK YOU.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER MCLEOD?
MR. MCLEOD: I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, IF
THAT'S APPROPRIATE.
MR. PARTYKA: TOTALLY APPROPRIATE.
MR. MCLEOD: OKAY. I'D LIKE TO NOT APPROVE
ITEM IIBII ON THE REGULAR AGENDA THIS EVENING. BUT
I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE IT MOVED TO THE -- NOR THE
AGREEMENT I WHICH IS PART OF THATI BETWEEN THE CITY
AND THE SCHRIMSHERS.
I'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT MOVED
TO BE ON THE NEXT AGENDA, THAT TWO COMMISSIONERS
BE APPOINTED BY THIS COMMISSION TO WORK WITH THE
CITY MANAGER, STAFF, AND THE SCHRIMSHERS AND LEGAL
COUNSEL TO PULL THIS AGREEMENT TO A HEAD, AND THAT
I WOULD ALSO RECOMMEND THAT NOT BE DONE ON THE
11TH HOUR OF THE NEXT TWO WEEKS.
.
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MR. BLAKE: SECOND.
MR. PARTYKA: THERE'S A SECOND BY
COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
I MAKE ONE CAUTION ON THAT. IF YOU END UP
HAVING TWO COMMISSIONERS ON THIS, THEN IT'S GOING
TO HAVE TO BE IN PUBLIC, OKAY. AND TO HAVE THIS
KIND OF DISCUSSION UNDER THESE KIND OF THINGS, IT
MAY NOT BE AS PRACTICAL TO DO IN A BIG SETTING
LIKE THIS VERSUS A SMALLER MEETING ROOM. SO
THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT.
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER GENNELL.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YES, MR. MAYOR. I'D
LIKE TO AMEND THE MOTION TO DESIGNATE THE TWO
COMMISSIONERS THAT WOULD REPRESENT THE COMMISSION
TO BE COMMISSIONER MICHAEL BLAKE AND COMMISSIONER
DAVID MCLEOD.
MR. BLAKE: SECOND.
o MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION
OKAY. CALL THE VOTE ON THE
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ON THE AMENDMENT?
AMENDMENT.
THE CLERK:
MR. MCLEOD:
THE CLERK:
MR. BLAKE:
THE CLERK:
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
AYE.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
AYE.
COMMISSIONER MILLER.
.
.
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AYE.
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
MR. MILLER:
THE CLERK:
MR. MARTINEZ: AYE.
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. NOW, ANY FURTHER
DISCUSSION ON THE MAIN MOTION? OKAY. CALL THE
VOTE.
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
MR. MILLER: AYE.
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
MR. BLAKE: AYE.
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
MR. MARTINEZ: THE MOTION IS TO BRING THIS
BACK IN TWO WEEKS FOR FINAL CONSIDERATION; AM I
CORRECT?
MR. PARTYKA: THAT'S CORRECT.
MR. MARTINEZ: AYE.
THE CLERK:
MR. MCLEOD:
THE CLERK:
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
AYE.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
MR. PARTYKA: MOTION PASSES. OKAY.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
MR. BLAKE: IF YOU'D BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN
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PUBLIC HEARING ITEM liB II AT THIS MOMENT, I'D BE
WILLING TO MAKE A MOTION ON THAT.
MR. PARTYKA: I BELIEVE --
MR. BLAKE: THAT'S THE TOWN CENTER ORDINANCE.
MR. PARTYKA: YES. I BELIEVE THAT WAS OUR
PLAN ANYWAY AND I AGREE. LET'S GET TO THAT NOW.
MR. BLAKE: I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO
POSTPONE PUBLIC HEARING ITEM B, THE THIRD READING
ADOPTION OF ORDINANCE 707, UNTIL THE FIRST MEETING
IN APRIL, PRESERVING ADVERTISING.
MR. MARTINEZ: SECOND.
MR. PARTYKA: ANY DISCUSSION? CALL THE VOTE.
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
MR. MCLEOD: AYE.
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
MR. BLAKE: AYE.
.
THE CLERK:
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
MR. MARTINEZ: AYE.
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
MR. MILLER: AYE.
MR. PARTYKA: OKAY. THERE WAS A SPECIAL
REQUEST BY --
MR. GARGANESE: MR. MAYOR?
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MR. PARTYKA: YES.
MR. GARGANESE: JUST ONE POINT OF ORDER.
SPECIFIC DATE FOR THE FIRST MEETING IN APRIL.
MR. MCLEMORE: THE SECOND MONDAY.
MR. MARTINEZ: APRIL 10TH.
MR. GARGANESE: THE TOWN CENTER ORDINANCE
WILL BE POSTPONED UNTIL APRIL 10TH, THE CITY
COMMISSION MEETING, AT 7:00 P.M. OR 6:30.
MR. MCLEOD: WHICHEVER COMES FIRST.
THE
MR. PARTYKA:
IS THAT OKAY? GOOD.
ALSO, THERE'S BEEN A REQUEST BY ONE OF THE
PETITIONERS, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE,
EVEN THOUGH THE HOUR IS KIND OF LATE, ON THE
ADD-ON IIC.II I ESTIMATE THIS SHOULD NOT TAKE VERY
LONG. I THINK IT MAKES SOME SENSE TO MOVE IT UP.
THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A LITTLE BIT OF
17 TIME. THIS IS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
18 DEPARTMENT-PLANNING DIVISION. IF THAT'S OKAY WITH
19 EVERYBODY/ I'D LIKE TO BRING THIS UP/ THE FIRST
20 READING.
21 (WHEREUPON, THE DEPOSITION WAS CONCLUDED AT 11:00 P.M.)
22
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CERTIFICATE OF OATH
5
6
7
STATE OF FLORIDA)
8 COUNTY OF ORANGE)
9
10 I, SANDRA A. MOSER, REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL
REPORTER, CERTIFY THAT I WAS AUTHORIZED TO AND DID
11 STENOGRAPHICALLY REPORT THE FOREGOING PROCEEDING AND
THAT THE TRANSCRIPT IS A TRUE RECORD.
12
.
I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT I AM NOT A RELATIVE,
13 EMPLOYEE, ATTORNEY OR COUNSEL OF ANY OF THE PARTIES,
NOR AM I FINANCIALLY INTERESTED IN THE ACTION.
14
15 DATED THIS 17TH DAY OF APRIL, 2000.
16
\5()Jo'-C: \:~:...~\ C\ . \\~~ f..
17
18
SANDRA A. MOSER, R.P.R.
19
NOTARY PUBLIC- STATE OF FLORIDA
20
21
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i".I1'$~~... SANDRA A. MOSER
."'~.~.
it: :.~ MY COMMISSION # CC 733210
,~.....~~< EXPIRES: April 12. 2002
.P.r,,(li. Bonded Thru Notary ~ Underwriters
23
25
.
~
'-
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ImTM
Registered
Professional
Reporter
1
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS
CITY COMMISSION - REGULAR MEETING
1126 EAST STATE ROAD 434
WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MONDAY, APRIL 10, 2000
IN RE: PUBLIC HEARINGS A, B, C & D
REGULAR AGENDA ITEMS F & J
REPORTED BY JUDITH A. VICK
REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTER
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Realtime ,W~~:~fhers, Inc.
/;""::',' . "',' ~
"-..,.. .w\
1.":':'-"1._~
Registered Professional Reporters
Certified Video Technicians
1188 Fox Forrest Circle · Apopka. Florida 32712 · (407) 884-4662 · FAX (407) 884-4664
Sandra A. Dawkins, President
Professional Reporting Since 1977
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APPEARANCES:
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MAYOR PAUL P. PARTYKA
DEPUTY VICE CHAIRMAN CINDY GENNELL
COMMISSIONER MICHAEL S. BLAKE
COMMISSIONER EDWARD MARTINEZ, JR.
COMMISSIONER DAVID MCLEOD
COMMISSIONER ROBERT S. MILLER
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ANTHONY A. GARGANESE, CITY ATTORNEY
RONALD W. MCLEMORE, CITY MANAGER
THOMAS GRIMMS, AICP, COMPREHENSIVE
PLANNING/ZONING COORDINATOR
CHARLES CARRINGTON, AICP, COMMUNITY
DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR
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MICHAEL J. GRINDSTAFF, ESQUIRE
MIKE SCHRIMSHER
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REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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PRO C E E DIN G S
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MAYOR PARTYKA: NOW WE ARE MOVING UP TO
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ITEM J, SCHRIMSHER PROPERTIES. CITY MANAGER
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REQUESTING THE CITY COMMISSION CONSIDER
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NEGOTIATIONS WITH SCHRIMSHER PROPERTIES.
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OKAY. CITY MANAGER, HOW DO YOU WANT TO HANDLE
7
THIS? MR. GRINDSTAFF?
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MR. MCLEMORE: I'LL START OFF AND THEN
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LET MR. GRINDSTAFF MAKE HIS PRESENTATION.
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AT THE LAST COMMISSION MEETING, YOU AUTHORIZED
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TWO COMMISSIONERS TO GO BACK AND TRY TO BRING TO
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CLOSURE NEGOTIABLE ITEMS THAT WERE STILL ON THE
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TABLE RELATIVE TO THIS AGREEMENT.
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I PROVIDED IN YOUR PACKAGE THE DRAFT MINUTES
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OF THAT MEETING THAT STIPULATES ISSUES AND
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DISCUSSION AND WHAT WAS AGREED TO FROM THAT
17
MEETING. AND IF YOU LOOKED AT THAT, THE ITEM THAT
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WAS LEFT OPEN WAS THE ITEM OF BILLBOARDS.
19
WE -- SUBSEQUENT TO THAT MEETING, WE DID
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REDRAFT FROM THE CITY'S SIDE THE AGREEMENT TO BE
21
CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WAS AGREED UPON IN THAT
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MEETING AND OFFERED SOME CLOSURE LANGUAGE RELATIVE
23
TO BILLBOARDS.
24
WE HAVE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS BACK AND FORTH
25
WITH SCHRIMSHERS AND THEIR REPS RELATIVE TO THAT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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CLOSURE LANGUAGE. THAT NEEDS TO BE FINALIZED
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TONIGHT OR AT A FUTURE MEETING THAT YOU WOULD
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AUTHORIZE.
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A COUPLE THINGS NEED TO BE DONE. WE NEED TO
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FINALIZE THE MINUTES. WE KEPT THEM IN DRAFT
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BECAUSE . IN ORDER TO SEE IS SCHRIMSHER AND HIS
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REPRESENTATIVES AGREED WITH WHAT WE HAD ON PAPER
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AND IF THE TWO COMMISSIONERS AGREED WHAT WE HAVE
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HERE IS WHAT WAS AGREED TO AND WHAT WAS DISCUSSED.
10
SO WE NEED SOME COMMENTS FROM YOU, MICKY AND
11
MICHAEL, AS TO THESE MINUTES.
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AND SECONDLY, TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE WE HAVE
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NOT CLOSED ON YET, WHICH IS BILLBOARDS. AND
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THIRDLY, ANY ISSUES THAT WE DID HAVE AGREEMENTS ON
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THlIT THE COMMISSION AS A WHOLE, IRRESPECTIVE OF
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WHAT THE TWO REPS DID ON THE NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE,
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DOES THIS COMMISSION AS A WHOLE SUPPORT THOSE ITEMS
18
AS THEY WERE NEGOTIATED AND AS THEY APPEAR IN THE
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DRAFT AGREEMENT.
20
SO WITH THAT SAID, I THINK PROBABLY THE WAY WE
21
WOULD PROCEED IS, IF YOU ARE READY, I WOULD SUGGEST
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THAT WE HEAR SOME CLOSURE ON THE MINUTES SO
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EVERYBODY KNOWS REALLY WHAT WE AGREED TO.
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AND THEN AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WE CAN LET THE
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COMMISSIONERS DECIDE AMONG THEMSELVES IF THESE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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ISSUES WHICH WE HAVE CLOSED ON IS ACCEPTABLE TO
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THEM, AND THEN WE NEED TO GET DOWN TO CLOSURE OF
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THE FINAL ITEM.
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OR THE COMMISSION NEEDS TO AUTHORIZE THE
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NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE TO GO BACK TO TRY TO FINALIZE
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THE FINAL ITEM.
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WITH THAT IN MIND, I THINK WE NEED TO COVER
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TH~ MINUTES FIRST.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. MR. MCLEOD, WOULD
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YOU CARE TO SAY SOMETHING NOW OR DO YOU WANT TO
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WAIT?
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COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO. AT THIS TIME I
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WILL WAIT UNTIL WE GET TO THE BILLBOARDS.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. MR. GRINDSTAFF,
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YOU HAVE THE MINUTES HERE.
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MR. GRINDSTAFF: THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.
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MICHAEL GRINDSTAFF. I'M WITH THE LAW FIRM OF
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SHUTTS AND BOWEN, 20 NORTH ORANGE AVENUE, SUITE
19
1000, ORLANDO, FLORIDA. WE REPRESENT THE
20
SCHRIMSHER GROUP.
21
I DID RECEIVE A COPY OF THESE MINUTES ON
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FRIDAY. I HAVE NOT COMPARED THEM TO ALL OF OUR
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NOTES. I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE DID TAKE
AND WE
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ALSO RECEIVED FRIDAY FROM ANTHONY A COpy OF A
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PROPOSED DRAFT ADDRESSING WHAT WE THOUGHT WERE THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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WHAT HIS IMPRESSION OF WHAT OUR AGREEMENTS WERE
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AT THE MEETING.
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WE HAD IN PROCESS AT THAT TIME OUR DRAFT OF
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WHAT WE THOUGHT THE AGREEMENT WAS. THAT HAS SINCE
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BEEN PROVIDED TO ANTHONY THIS AFTERNOON OR ABOUT
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AROUND NOONTIME.
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IN ANY EVENT, I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH AND
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FLASHED BACK THE MINUTES AND I'M NOT PREPARED TO
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TELL YOU THAT THESE MINUTES ARE -- THAT WE ARE
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GOING TO SIGN OFF ON THE MINUTES.
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I WILL TELL YOU THAT I THOUGHT THE MEETING WAS
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MOST PRODUCTIVE. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK AT THIS
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TIME COMMISSIONER BLAKE AND COMMISSIONER MCLEOD FOR
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BEING THERE.
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IT WAS PRODUCTIVE FOR ABOUT FOUR AND A HALF
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HOURS OF PRODUCTION TO GET TO ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE
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POINTS OF THINGS, BUT IT WAS PRODUCTIVE.
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I WOULD AGREE WITH MR. MCLEMORE THAT THE ISSUE
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OF BILLBOARDS IS STILL OPEN. I THINK THAT
I
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THINK IT WOULD BE FAIR TO CHARACTERIZE THE OTHER
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ISSUES THAT WE DISCUSSED AS BEING GENERALLY AGREED
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TO BUT WE JUST NEED TO AGREE ON HOW TO SAY IT, HOW
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TO SAY HOW WE AGREED TO THOSE THINGS.
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AND WE HAVE HAD OUR IMPRESSION OF WHAT WAS
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SAID AND WE HAVE DRAFTED THOSE THINGS. THIS IS NOT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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INTENDED TO BE SQUIRRELLY. THIS IS INTENDED TO
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TELL IT LIKE IT IS.
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WE ARE IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH WHAT WE
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SUBMITTED TODAY. IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THAT AND
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TELL US YOU ARE IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH IT, THAT
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WOULD BE GREAT.
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AND SO I THINK THAT'S GOOD NEWS. THE GOOD
8
NEWS IS THAT WE HAVE ON PAPER WHAT WE THINK WAS
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AGREED UPON AND HAVE NOT DISSECTED THESE MINUTES.
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COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MAYOR.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: I HAVE ONE QUESTION, TOO.
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COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: THIS
THE AGREEMENTS ON
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THE MINUTES, DO WE HAVE A COPY OF THAT?
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MR. MCLEMORE: IT'S IN YOUR PACKAGE.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT'S THIS BIG LONG
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THING, RIGHT?
18
MR. MCLEMORE: NO.
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THE MINUTES ARE
20
ATTACHED TO THE BACK OF IT.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. I'VE GOT THE
22
MINUTES, BUT I MEAN THE COMMENTS THAT HE SAID HE
23
SENT TO -- OKAY. THAT'S THE PIECE.
MR. GARGANESE: HIS AGREEMENT?
MAYOR PARTYKA: YEAH, HIS COMMENTS.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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8
1
MR. GARGANESE: THAT'S THE PIECE I PASSED
2
OUT TO YOU THIS EVENING. THAT'S THIS WITH THE
3
SHUTTS AND BOWEN FACSIMILE COVER SHEET ON IT.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. HE SAID HE
5
PASSED THEM OUT.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. GRIND I
7
WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT
8
MR. GARGANESE: I'M SORRY. THE CITY
9
MANAGER HAS THE AGREEMENTS. THERE YOU GO.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I WOULD ALSO TELL YOU
11
THAT WHAT HAS COME TO LIGHT TONIGHT AS WE WERE
12
STANDING AROUND OUT THERE REVIEWING THE AGENDA
13
PACKAGE, THE -- I UNDERSTAND THERE'S GOING TO BE
14
SOME MODIFICATION TO THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT AND
15
WHICH MAY CAUSE GIVE RISE TO SOME THINGS THAT
16
WE'D LIKE TO ADDRESS IN THIS AGREEMENT AS WELL
17
HAVING TO DO WITH POTENTIAL MITIGATION AND WHAT'S
18
HAPPENING TO THE WETLANDS WITHIN THE TOWN CENTER
19
AND THE IMPACT ON THE SCHRIMSHER PROPERTY.
20
WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE LEARNED TONIGHT WHEN WE
21
GOT HERE THAT THERE'S A MEETING TOMORROW NIGHT,
22
ALTHOUGH IT WAS NOTICED IN THE NEWSPAPER THIS
23
MORNING.
24
THERE'S A MEETING TOMORROW NIGHT FOR THE LPA
2S
TO REVISIT OR TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE TOWN CENTER
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
CODE AND TO LOOK AT THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT.
2
I CAN APPRECIATE SOME CURATIVE PURPOSES FOR
3
THAT MEETING, BUT WE WOULD HAVE APPRECIATED
4
LEARNING ABOUT THAT MEETING LONG BEFORE THIS
5
AFTERNOON.
6
WE WILL BE THERE TO FIND OUT WHAT'S -- WHAT'S
7
HAPPENING AND PARTICIPATE AS BEST WE CAN. IF
8
THERE'S ANY CHANGES TO THE ORDINANCE OR ANY CHANGES
9
TO THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT, WE MAY WISH TO ADDRESS
10
THE IMPACT OF THOSE CHANGES IN THIS COMPANION
11
AGREEMENT.
12
OKAY. I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS
13
AS BEST WE CAN.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
15
MCLEOD.
16
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YEAH. I THOUGHT
1.7
OUR NEGOTIATIONS, I THOUGHT OUR CONCLUSIONS WERE
18
PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND TO THE POINT.
19
I WOULD DEFINITELY THINK THAT AT THIS POINT
20
THAT WE COMMISSIONERS, COUPLE COMMISSIONERS DID
21
TAKE THE TIME TO COME AND SIT DOWN AND TRY TO
22
NEGOTIATE THIS THING AND WORK WITH YOU.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ABSOLUTELY.
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AND SEE NO REASON
25
THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GO BACK THROUGH ITEMS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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19
20
21
22
23
24
25
10
1
THAT WE HAVE LISTED HERE, ONE TO EIGHT.
2
WE AGREED WHEN WE WERE IN THE ROOM, SO I WOULD
3
SEE NO REASON WE SHOULDN'T AGREE NOW, OR TELL US
4
WHAT'S WRONG WITH WHAT THE DRAFT DOCUMENT SAYS
5
DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT WE AGREED TO IN THE ROOM.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE ONE THING I DID
7
DO --
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YEAH.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I GOT A CLEAN COPY FROM
10
ANTHONY THIS AFTERNOON.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YEAH.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND I HAVE PREPARED, ON
13
MY WAY OUT THE DOOR TODAY, A BLACK LINE . . . BLACK
14
LINE COMPARISON OF YOUR DRAFT AGAINST OUR DRAFT,
15
AND I THINK THAT WILL BE MOST HELPFUL TO REVIEW.
16
DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT TONIGHT?
17
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I MEAN, MY PERSONAL
18
IF, I SPENT THE TIME TO BE THERE. IF THERE'S
SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S IN THESE MINUTES, I
WANT TO KNOW IT NOW. I DON'T WANT TO KNOW IT TWO
WEEKS FROM NOW OR A MONTH FROM NOW.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S
DIFFERENT IN THE MINUTES.
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I MEAN, WE SPENT
THE TIME DOING IT. THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF US BEING
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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11
1
MR. BLAKE AND MYSELF BEING THERE.
2
I SUGGESTED AT THAT TIME, EVEN THAT DAY, THAT
3
WE GO AHEAD AND GIVE IT TO THE CITY CLERK, OR
4
EXCUSE ME, THE CITY MANAGER'S SECRETARY TO TYPE
5
THEM UP AND EVERYBODY SIGN OFF ON THEM. NOBODY
6
THOUGHT THAT WAS NECESSARY TO DO AT THAT TIME.
7
SO AT THE PRESENT TIME, I THINK IT IS
8
IMPORTANT THAT MAYBE WE GO THROUGH IT RIGHT NOW.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD
10
LIKE TO DO.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AND SIGN OFF. I
12
WOULD. I MEAN, I'D LIKE TO KNOW THAT WHEN WE WERE
13
THERE, THAT WHAT WE DID, AT LEAST THE TWO
14
COMMISSIONERS THAT WERE THERE ARE STILL IN
15
AGREEMENT WITH THE NOTES.
16
YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH THEM OR YOU ARE NOT
17
IN AGREEMENT WITH THEM.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I UNDERSTAND.
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. DOES THAT
20
MAKE SENSE TO EVERYBODY HERE? I MEAN, I DON'T WANT
21
TO --
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT WILL TAKE AWHILE.
23
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. I THINK IF
24
WE ARE GOING TO NEGOTIATE, I THINK WE AGREE TO WHAT
25
WE WANT ALL TO BE NEGOTIATED TO. AND IF WE DON'T,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
THEN I DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO GO BACK TO
2
RENEGOTIATE OR FOR ME TO SIT ON A COMMITTEE TO
3
RENEGOTIATE AND THEN COME BACK HERE AND DECIDE I'M
4
GOING TO GO BACK TO RENEGOTIATE.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE UNDERSTAND THAT,
6
OKAY, BUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT - - WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
7
SECTION SO AND SO, IT MAY HAVE AN IMPACT ON ANOTHER
8
SECTION, YOU KNOW.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE WERE ALL THERE
10
THAT DAY.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AS WE DRAFTED THROUGH
12
THERE THAT DAY --
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE WERE ALL THERE
14
THAT DAY.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S RIGHT. AND WE
16
ARE ALL HERE RIGHT NOW.
17
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY/ LET'S GO.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE MAY OR MAY NOT AGREE.
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S MY OPINION.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
21
MR. MCLEMORE: WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO LEAD
22
OR
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: WHAT?
24
MR. MCLEMORE: WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO LEAD
25
THE DISCUSSION?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
MAYOR PARTYKA: BEFORE WE DO THAT, ONE
2
MORE THING. COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ HAS A QUESTION.
3
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: I DON'T WANT TO
4
SOUND FUNNY OR DISRESPECTFUL, BUT HOW LONG IS THIS
5
SHUFFLE BOARD GAME GOING TO CONTINUE? I MEAN, I'M
6
SERIOUS.
7
I MEAN, HERE YOU HAVE A GROUP OF
8
PROFESSIONALS. THEY COME HERE TWO WEEKS AGO. WE
9
DECIDED YOU FOLKS ARE GOING TO SIT DOWN AND YOU ARE
10
GO:NG TO TRY AND IRON OUT ALL THE
TAKE OUT
11
ALL OF THE KINKS OUT OF THIS PROJECT.
12
YOU SIT DOWN AND SOMEHOW, SOMEHOW, YOU HAVE
13
ONE IMPRESSION OF THE MEETING WHEN YOU GO BACK TO
14
YOUR OFFICE AND YOU DRAFT WHAT YOU FEEL THE MEETING
15
WAS ALL ABOUT. THE CITY, IN TURN, DOES THE SAME.
16
NOW WE COME BACK WITH CONFLICTING DOCUMENTS AT
17
A TIME WHEN IT'S TIME TO MAKE DECISIONS. I MEAN,
18
HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO GO ON?
19
NOW YOU ARE GOING TO SIT DOWN AGAIN AND DO THE
20
SAME AND YOU ARE GOING TO GO BACK AND YOU DRAFT
21
YOUR OWN, WHAT YOUR MIND TELLS YOU THE MEETING WAS
22
ALL ABOUT.
23
WHY CAN'T YOU AS PROFESSIONALS SIT DOWN AT THE
24
TABLE AND COME TO A MEETING OF THE MINDS AND SAY
25
THIS IS WHAT THIS MEANS AND THIS IS WHAT WE ARE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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14
1
GOING TO PUT DOWN.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE CAN, SIR. ASK YOUR
3
-- I MEAN
4
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ:
YOU CAN?
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE GOT A DRAFT ON
6
FRIDAY, SIR. WE SUBMITTED OUR DRAFT TODAY. WE
7
HAVE DONE THAT. WE ARE WILLING TO DO THAT.
8
WE HAVE NOT MISSED ONE MEETING CALLED BY THE
9
CITY COMMISSION OR ANY OF ITS STAFF MEMBERS. WE
10
HAVE BEEN HELD UP IN THE LOBBY WAITING FOR A NUMBER
11
OF MEETINGS.
12
WE HAVEN'T MISSED ONE MEETING AND WE ARE
13
WILLING TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT AND WE ARE WILLING
14
TO GO OVER THIS THING ALL NIGHT LONG IF YOU WANT TO
15
GO OVER IT, ALL NIGHT LONG RIGHT NOW, OR WE CAN
16
MEET WITH STAFF AND WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THESE
17
THINGS.
18
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: YOU SAID YOU HAD
19
A COPY -- EXCUSE ME. YOU SAID YOU HAD A COPY OF
20
THE MINUTES TODAY, THIS AFTERNOON?
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, I'M SORRY. I GOT THE
22
MINUTES ON FRIDAY.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: WE GOT YOURS TODAY.
24
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S RIGHT.
25
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. WELL, I DON'T
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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24
25
15
1
WANT THIS TO GET OFF ON A BAD FOOT HERE.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ALL RIGHT.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: I THINK ALL WE ARE
4
TRYING TO SAY HERE, AND I WOULD TALK TO -- FOR
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF HAS NOT HAD A CHANCE TO REALLY
7
REVIEW HIS NOTES ACCORDING TO THE CITY'S NOTES. IS
8
THAT CORRECT?
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S CORRECT.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: AND ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS
11
HAVE TIME TO LOOK THROUGH IT. IF THAT MEANS
12
TONIGHT/ WE WILL DO IT.
13
AND I THINK WE ARE ALL GETTING TO THE SAME
14
POINT. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ARE LOOKING AT
15
THE SAME THING. THERE'S NO ASSUMPTION HERE THERE'S
16
A CONFLICT?
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I AGREE.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL WE ARE TRYING
19
TO DO IS -- WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE BOTH
20
EXACTLY THE SAME.
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND YOU ARE LOOKING AT
22
-- IT'S GOT TO GO BACK TO THE LPA TOMORROW NIGHT, A
23
MEETING THAT WAS NOTICED TODAY FOR TOMORROW NIGHT'S
MEETING FOR A COMP PLAN AMENDMENT, WHICH YOU NEED
TO HAVE THAT DONE IN ORDER TO HAVE YOUR ZONING.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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16
1
IT'S GOING TO END UP FOR A FOURTH READING OF
2
THIS ORDINANCE ON THE 24TH FOR LOTS OF DIFFERENT
3
REASONS. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A THIRD READING
4
TONIGHT, FOURTH READING ON THE 24TH.
5
WE CAN GET WITH STAFF. WE CAN WORK THROUGH
6
THIS STUFF. WE CAN SIT HERE RIGHT NOW AND GO
7
THROUGH IT, AND WE'RE PREPARED TO DO IT. IF Y'ALL
8
WANT TO DO IT, THAT'S FINE WITH US.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I'M READY.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I'M READY. I WANT
12
TO GET THIS THING DONE, AT LEAST THE ISSUES THAT
13
WERE DISCUSSED. EITHER WE AGREE NOW OR WE DON'T
14
AGREE IN THE VERBIAGE OF WHAT'S IN HERE.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE ONES WE DISCUSSED.
16
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ON THE NEGOTIATIONS
17
AT THE MEETING.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER
20
GENNELL, HAVE YOU GOT ANYTHING, OR WE WILL START.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YES.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT.
23
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. GRINDSTAFF,
24
YOU SAID YOU HAD A BLACK LINE COMPARISON BETWEEN
25
WHAT AND WHAT?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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17
1
MR. GRINDSTAFF: BETWEEN THE CITY'S DRAFT
2
AND OUR DRAFT.
3
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OF THE AGREEMENT?
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES.
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: RIGHT, NOW THAT --
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE WILL BE REFERRING TO
7
THAT AS Y'ALL GO THROUGH -- AS WE GO THROUGH THIS.
8
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY. SO WHAT YOU
9
ARE PROPOSING TO GO THROUGH RIGHT NOW, THOUGH, IS
10
THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING?
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE ARE
12
DOING TO DO.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MY PROPOSAL IS TO
14
GO THROUGH THE NEGOTIATION MINUTES OF THE MEETING
15
SO THAT WE ARE ALL ON RECORD THAT WE AGREE THAT
16
WHAT WE NEGOTIATED OUT IS IN FACT WHAT'S ON THE
17
DRAFT / OKAY.
18
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY, I UNDERSTAND
19
THAT.
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ON THE MINUTES.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: ON THE MINUTES.
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I WOULD LIKE TO
23
CLEAR UP THE MINUTES OF THAT MEETING.
24
MR. GRINDSTAFF: CLEAR UP THE MINUTES IS
25
ONE THING, COMMISSIONER. I MEAN, WE WILL DO
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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18
1
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO AS LONG AS YOU WANT TO DO
2
IT.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT.
4
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MAY I HAVE THE
5
FLOOR, STILL?
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: YOU ARE STILL ON THE
7
FLOOR.
8
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THANK YOU.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THE AGREEMENT STILL
10
NEEDS TO BE DRAFTED, SO
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, WE'LL HANDLE THAT.
12
COMMISSIONER GENNELL, GO AHEAD.
13
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THANK YOU. I'M
14
READY TO SPEND THE NIGHT HERE IF THAT'S WHAT IT
15
TAKES, I'M GOING TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH. I'M TO
16
THAT POINT.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY.
18
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY. NOW, LET ME
19
-- OKAY. WE ARE GOING TO GO THROUGH, AS I
20
UNDERSTAND IT, TO CLARIFY THINGS. WE ARE GOING TO
21
GO THROUGH THE MINUTES TO SEE THAT EVERYBODY IS
22
AGREED ON THE MINUTES.
23
AFTER THAT TIME, YOU HAVE A BLACK LINE
24
COMPARISON OF THESE TWO DOCUMENTS; DO YOU NOT?
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I DO.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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19
1
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: WHICH CONCEIVABLY
2
WE COULD SIT HERE AND GO THROUGH THAT, COULD WE
3
NOT?
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE COULD DO EVERY BIT OF
5
THAT.
6
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THANK YOU.
7
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: MR. MAYOR.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES, SIR.
9
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: I THINK IF WE ARE
10
GOING TO TACKLE THIS IN THE FASHION THAT I BELIEVE
11
IS GOING TO BE, WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE WAITING HERE TO
12
MAKE A PRESENTATION AND WE SHOULD EITHER POSTPONE
13
THAT ITEM AND LET THEM GO HOME OR KEEP THEM HERE
14
UNTIL MIDNIGHT, AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD DO
15
THAT.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: WELL, I CONCUR WITH --
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: MAY I MAKE A SUGGESTION
18
THAT MIGHT STREAMLINE THIS FOR YOU?
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
20
COMMISSIONER MILLER: MR. MAYOR.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: WAIT. JUST ONE AT A
22
TIME. COMMISSIONER MILLER HAS THE
WANTS TO SAY
23
SOMETHING. WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO SAY,
24
COMMISSIONER MILLER?
25
COMMISSIONER MILLER: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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22
23
24
25
20
1
BROUGHT UP A POINT. HE AND COMMISSIONER BLAKE WERE
2
IN THIS MEETING THAT LASTED MANY, MANY HOURS LAST
3
WEEK AND THERE IS A THREE-PAGE DOCUMENT WHICH
4
MEMORIALIZES THE MAIN POINTS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS
5
WHAT I THOUGHT THIS MINUTES
6
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US WORK THROUGH THIS
7
REALLY QUICK BECAUSE OF THE EIGHT POINTS, SEVEN OF
8
THEM SAY THAT THE PARTIES AGREE. THERE'S ONLY THE
9
ISSUE OF BILLBOARDS THAT SEEM TO BE IN
10
DISAGREEMENT.
11
SO WHY ARE WE GOING THROUGH ALL OF THIS? I
12
MEAN, WHY ARE WE GOING TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THESE
13
OTHER LABORIOUS, LENGTHY DOCUMENTS WHEN THIS IS
14
WHAT MEMORIALIZES THOSE CHANGES, I THOUGHT.
15
IF WE AGREE ON THIS, THE ONLY ISSUE THEN IS
16
BILLBOARDS THAT WE HAVE TO DISCUSS RIGHT NOW.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: MR. MAYOR, IF I COULD
18
SUGGEST, WE GO THROUGH THE MEMO. THAT WAY EVERYONE
19
CAN GET COMFORTABLE ON THE RECORD AND STAFF KNOWS
20
EXACTLY THAT EVERYBODY HAS APPROVED EVERYTHING.
21
AND THEN WITH REGARD TO DRAFTING THE
AGREEMENT, RECONCILING THE TWO AGREEMENTS, LET US
CONTINUE TO WORK WITH STAFF TO DO THAT BETWEEN NOW
AND THE 24TH, WHICH IS WHEN YOU ARE PLANNING ON
DOING THIS NEXT READING ANYWAY.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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21
1
WE ARE HERE AGAIN FOR A LOT OF REASONS. YOU
2
ARE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER READING. LET US DO THAT,
3
AND YOU WILL KNOW WHERE WE ARE ON ALL THE ISSUES
4
BUT THE BILLBOARDS, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE CAN
5
AGREE ON THE BILLBOARDS.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: IF I MAY, ALL WE ARE
7
TRYING TO DO IS, AS FAR AS COMMISSIONER MCLEOD
8
SAYS, AND COMMISSIONER BLAKE, LET'S AGREE TO WHAT
9
WE STATED FROM THE MEETING IN WHAT I CALL EVERYDAY
10
WORDS, OKAY.
11
THEN THEN ONCE THAT'S AGREED TO IN TERMS OF
12
THOSE KEY ISSUES, THEN THAT HAS TO BE DRAFTED IN
13
LEGALESE, INTO THE OFFICIAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.
14
AND THAT'S WHERE YOU WANT TO TAKE WHATEVER TIME IS
15
NEEDED WITH STAFF TO DO THE LEGALESE PORTION OF IT.
16
OKAY. THAT'S ABOUT AS SIMPLE AS I CAN SAY
17
IT, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO LET'S GO.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S IT.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
20
GENNELL.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AS THIS WHOLE
22
ISSUE RELATES TO ITEM F, I HAVE CONCERN AND I WANT
23
THE COMMISSION TO APPRECIATE IT, AND THAT HAS TO DO
24
WITH THE APPRAISAL AND SURVEY FOR THE TOWN CENTER
25
TRAIL REALIGNMENT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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25
22
1
NOW WE ARE AT THE DROP DEAD POINT RIGHT NOW.
2
THE COUNTY IS PREPARED TO GO AHEAD AND PUT THAT
3
PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY
4
PLANNED. THEY ARE TIRED OF WAITING.
5
AND NOT ONLY ARE THEY TIRED, IF YOU READ THIS
6
ITEM F IN COMPLETE DETAIL AND COMPREHENDED THE
7
WHOLE THING, THE COUNTY REALLY DOESN'T HAVE A
8
CHOICE BUT TO GO FORWARD.
9
NOW, INSOFAR AS THE TOWN CENTER CODE ITEM THAT
10
THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT CARRYING OVER FOR A FOURTH
11
READING, PUBLIC HEARING ITEM A, INSOFAR AS THAT
12
WILL HOLD UP ITEM F, YOU ARE ASSIGNING -- BY
13
HOLDING THIS OVER TO A FOURTH READING, YOU ARE IN
14
EFFECT CHOOSING TO HAVE THE PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS PUT
15
WHERE IT WAS ORIGINALLY LAID OUT, BAMM.
16
SO I JUST WANT Y'ALL TO REALIZE THAT. THAT'S
17
ALL I HAD TO SAY.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL
19
RIGHT. CITY MANAGER, WE ARE GOING TO START WITH
20
THESE MINUTES AND GET CONCURRENCE ON THAT FROM WHAT
21
I CALL THE WORDS, AND THEN WE WILL TAKE IT FROM
22
THERE.
23
MR. MCLEMORE: ITEM 1, THERE'S NOT A LOT
24
OF EXCEPTION ABOUT THIS. I THINK FOR A NUMBER OF
REASONS THE CITY NEEDS TO FINALIZE THE EXHIBITS,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
AND THAT WAS TO THE TESTY PART OF TRYING TO GET
2
THIS DONE, WAS TRYING TO BRING FORWARD AN EXHIBIT
3
THAT ALL THE DISCUSSION POINTS COULD BE REFERENCED
4
TO, AND THAT TOOK A LOT OF TIME BECAUSE SOME OF THE
5
EXHIBITS USE LETTERS, SOME OF THEM USE NUMBERS,
6
SOME OF THEM TIE BACK TO THAT CODE, SOME WERE NOT
7
INVOLVED IN THE CURRENT CODE.
8
SO THAT'S WHY IT HAS TAKEN SO LONG TO GET THIS
9
DONE. AND I DON'T THINK THAT ANY REAL ISSUES ARE
10
RELATIVE TO NUMBER 1.
11
ITEM NUMBER 2
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: IF I MAY
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: EXCUSE ME. THE
14
ONLY ISSUE I HAVE WITH THAT IS IT DOESN'T HAVE A
15
DATE ON IT. THIS CITY SHOULD DATE THE EXHIBITS,
16
THIS CITY SHOULD DATE DOCUMENTS.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: THANK YOU.
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AND LEAVE A PLACE
19
FOR THE DIVISION ON -- IN OTHER WORDS, YOU NEED --
20
CAN WE PUT A DATE ON THIS?
21
MR. MCLEMORE: SURE.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
23
THIS EXHIBIT?
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT DOESN'T HAVE A
25
DATE. EVERY DOCUMENT SHOULD HAVE A DATE FROM
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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WINTER SPRINGS.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I AGREE. I JUST -- THAT
3
EXHIBIT NEEDS TO HAVE NAMES. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU
4
LOOK AT THAT EXHIBIT, MAGNOLIA PARK, WE ALL KNOW
5
WHERE MAGNOLIA PARK IS BECAUSE WE JUST KNOW WHERE
6
IT IS. IT IS NUMBER 7.
7
BUT I THINK THE EXHIBIT, JUST LIKE WETLANDS
8
PARK HAS ITS NAME ON IT, MAGNOLIA PARK SHOULD HAVE
9
ITS NAME ON IT. THE EAST MARKET SQUARE DOWN THERE
10
IN THE CORNER SHOULD HAVE ITS NAME ON IT. TRAIL
11
LAKE PARK/ AT LEAST IT'S INITIALED, THE LOCATION.
12
IT SHOULD HAVE ITS NAME ON IT.
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: IF I MAY SUMMARIZE,
14
EVERYTHING SHOULD BE IDENTIFIED THOROUGHLY, OKAY,
15
WITH DATE, EXHIBIT, CONSISTENT MARKING AND ALL
16
IDENTIFICATION POINTS NOTED.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. THOSE ARE THE
18
TYPE OF THINGS WE JUST LIKE TO TWEAK.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
20
MR. MCLEMORE: AND AGAIN, YOU CAN
21
CONSIDER THIS MAP A DRAFT, THE SAME AS THE MINUTES,
22
OKAY.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT.
24
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY. THE BUFFER
25
REQUIREMENT BETWEEN THE ST. JOHN'S LANDING AND THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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25
25
1
TOWN CENTER, AS YOU HAVE KNOWN AND WE HAVE
2
DISCUSSED AT GREAT LENGTHS NOW, THAT THE CITY
3
DESIRED TO HAVE A BUFFER ZONE BETWEEN
4
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: EXCUSE ME. I'M
5
SORRY, MR. MANAGER. IF WE CAN GO BACK TO NUMBER 1.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY.
7
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: COULD WE HAVE A
8
RESPONSE FROM THE SCHRIMSHER REPRESENTATIVES AS TO
9
WHETHER OR NOT WE AGREE FULLY ON WHAT NUMBER 1 IS
10
BEFORE WE GET ON TO NUMBER 2.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AS TO THE EXHIBITS?
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, WHAT DO YOU
13
UNDERSTAND NUMBER 1 TO MEAN AND ARE WE IN AGREEMENT
14
HERE?
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE DID UNDERSTAND THAT
16
AND -- THAT YOU WOULD TAKE THE LEAD BUT YOU
17
WOULDN'T JUST JAM IT, YOU KNOW/ AND SAY, HERE IT
18
IS.
19
WE WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT IT AND
20
WE WILL TALK ABOUT IT AND WE WILL CONFIRM THE
21
ACREAGES AND THAT YOU WOULD TAKE THE LEAD.
22
AS TO NUMBER 1, WE AGREE WITH THE SENTENCE
23
THAT'S ON THAT PAGE.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: GOOD.
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. NUMBER 2, I WILL
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
MAKE SURE THAT BOTH PEOPLE CONCUR FROM THIS POINT.
2
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY. THIS IS IN REGARDS
3
TO THE BUFFER BETWEEN THE BUFFER -- IN TERMS OF THE
4
WIDTH BETWEEN THE BUFFER -- EXCUSE ME, THE ST.
5
JOHN'S MANAGEMENT TOWN CENTER.
6
THE SCHRIMSHERS DESIRE TO UTILIZE THE CROSS
7
SEMINOLE TRAIL RIGHT-OF-WAY AS THE BUFFER BETWEEN
8
ST. JOHN'S LANDING AND THE TOWN CENTER.
9
WHAT WAS AGREED TO BY THE PARTIES WAS THAT THE
10
CROSS SEMINOLE COUNTY TRAIL RIGHT-OF-WAY MAY BE
11
USED TO SATISFY THE BUFFER REQUIREMENTS BETWEEN THE
12
TOWN CENTER AND ST. JOHN'S LANDING.
13
THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREED THAT THE WIDTH OF
14
THE BUFFER BETWEEN THE TOWN CENTER AND ST. JOHN'S
15
.~ . . -. .-'.. . . . ..
LANDING WOULD BE THE WIDTH OF THE CROSS SEMINOLE
16
COUNTY TRAIL OR FIFTY FEET, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.
17
THE POINT BEING THAT THE TRAIL WAS ONLY THIRTY
18
FEET. THE CITY WOULD NOT ACCEPT LESS THAN FIFTY
19
FEET. SO. . . BUT WITHIN THAT FIFTY FEET -- SO WE
20
GET THE BENEFIT OF THE FIFTY FEET. THEY GET THE
21
BENEFIT OF, IF THE TRAIL IS FIFTY FEET, NOT HAVING
22
TO PUT UP ANY ADDITIONAL LAND RELATIVE TO THE WIDTH
23
OF THE BUFFER.
24
I THINK -- ANY QUESTIONS RELATED TO THIS?
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I AGREE WITH THAT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT IS HOW I
3
UNDERSTOOD IT.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: SAME HERE. WE -- THAT
5
THAT BUFFER WILL BE NOT LESS THAN FIFTY FEET, OR
6
THE WIDTH OF THE TRAIL. WE DO NOT WANT TO IMPLY,
7
HOWEVER/ THAT THE TRAIL WOULD BE GREATER THAN FIFTY
8
FEET. IT MAY OR MAY NOT. IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO
9
BE WITHIN THAT FIFTY FEET.
10
LET'S JUST SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, AT THAT POINT THE
11
TRAIL IS FORTY-TWO FEET --
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THEN YOU WOULD GIVE
13
US AN ADDITIONAL EIGHT FEET OF THE BUFFER?
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT WOULD ADD UP TO BE
15
'FIFTY, AND THAT'S 'EXACTLY WHAT WE MEANT.
16
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: GOOD. THAT'S WHAT
17
WE UNDERSTOOD AS WELL.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS.
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: OKAY.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN
21
TERMS OF A MINIMUM OF FIFTY FEET, WANT IT TO BE
22
CLEAR THAT WE DON'T WANT TO IMPLY THAT THE TRAIL
23
WOULD BE GREATER THAN FIFTY FEET AT THAT LOCATION.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE UNDERSTAND THAT.
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU,
2
THOSE WORDS THAT WE JUST HEARD, DOES IT SAY THAT?
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, I MEAN
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: I MEAN, LET'S LOOK AT
5
THESE WORDS RIGHT HERE. ARE THOSE WORDS THERE? I
6
MEAN, WE ARE READING THIS. ARE THEY THERE?
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK THEY ARE.
8
THAT'S THE IMPLICATION, THAT THEY WON'T BE GREATER
9
THAN FIFTY FEET.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, BUT TO HAVE A
11
FUP.THER EXAMPLE, A COROLLARY OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID,
12
IF THE TRAIL HAPPENS TO BE FIFTY-FIVE FEET
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE BUFFER IS
14
FIFTY-FIVE.
15
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE BUFFER IS
16
FIFTY-FIVE.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT IS CORRECT.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WHICH IS SELF
19
DEFINING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BUILD ON THE TRAIL
20
PROPERTY ANYWAY.
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT SAYS IT WILL BE
22
THE WIDTH OF THE CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL OR FIFTY
23
FEET, WHICHEVER IS GREATER.
24
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. WHICH AGAIN --
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IN MY OFFICE, THEY
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
WOULD TELL ME.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YOU'RE NOT A LAWYER,
3
DAVID.
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I KNOW.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHEN WE WERE REVIEWING
6
IT, IT CAME UP, AND WE WERE WILLING TO SUGGEST THAT
7
WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IT.
8
IN THAT SCENARIO, WHERE WOULD YOU SEE THE
9
BUILDING SETBACK IN YOUR SCENARIO? LET'S SAY YOU
10
HAVE A BUILDING SETBACK LINE ORDINARILY THAT'S,
11
SAY, TEN FEET, AND LET'S SAY THE TRAIL IS FORTY-
12
FIVE FEET.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT HAS TO BE OFF
14
FIFTY FOOT.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I WOULD AGREE. SO
16
REALLY THE BUILDING LINE, THE BUILDING SETBACK
17
LINE, WOULD BE THE BUFFER LINE.
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THE BUFFER LINE,
19
PLUS TEN FEET.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I AGREE. AND I THINK WE
21
ALL THOUGHT THAT BUT WE DID NOT HAVE THIS SPECIFIC
22
CONVERSATION.
23
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YES, WE DID. YES,
24
WE DID.
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, BECAUSE IF IT WAS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
FORTY-FIVE --
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IF IT WAS
3
FORTY-FIVE -- IT SAYS OR FIFTY FEET. YOU ARE
4
DEFINITELY GOING TO GET A ZONE DOWN THROUGH THERE
5
FIFTY FOOT WIDE.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I AGREE, OKAY. THAT
7
WOULD BE -- THE BUFFER WOULD BE FIFTY --
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S A MINIMUM
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND THE SETBACK WOULD
10
BE --
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: START AT FIFTY
12
FOOT, THE END OF THE FIFTY.
13
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: A TOTAL OF FIFTY
14
FEET.
15
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YOU STILL HAVE TO
16
HAVE TEN FEET OFF THE BUFFER, RIGHT. YOU CAN'T
17
BUILD RIGHT UP TO THE BUFFER.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND THAT'S SOMETHING
19
THAT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT. DID WE TALK ABOUT THAT?
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, I DIDN'T SAY.
21
I NEVER SAID THAT.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT'S AN AUTOMATIC.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: ONLY ONE PERSON AT A
24
TIME.
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT'S AN AUTOMATIC.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE CAN READ INTO
2
THIS THING FOR FORTY-FIVE YEARS. OUR AGREEMENT WAS
3
WHAT THE LANGUAGE IS RIGHT HERE. THAT WAS WHAT WE
4
AGREED ON.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT WAS THE BUFFER
6
LANGUAGE. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU.
7
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. NOW NORMALLY
8
WOULD YOU BUILD PUT YOUR BUILDING, BACK OF
9
THE BUILDING, ON THE BUFFER?
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IF IT SAYS THE
12
SETBACK HAS TO BE TEN FEET?
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ON A BUFFER. YOU COULD
14
BUILD UP TO A BUFFER. WHAT YOU CAN'T BUILD UP TO
15
IS THE BUILDING LINE.
16
SEE, ONCE WE CONVEY TO THE TRAIL, THAT
17
PROPERTY LINE BECOMES A NEW LINE.
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY.
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU CAN
20
BUILD UP TO A BUFFER. SEE, IF YOU HAD A TEN FOOT
21
BUILDING SETBACK WITH A TWENTY-FIVE FOOT BUFFER,
22
YOU COULD BUILD UP TO THE BUFFER, BUT YOU CAN'T GO
23
INTO THE BUFFER.
24
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE OF
25
THE KIND OF THING THAT WASN'T DISCUSSED AT THESE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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32
1
MEETINGS.
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: RIGHT NOW, AS FAR
3
AS I'M CONCERNED, THIS IS WHAT WE AGREED TO.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I DIDN'T WANT TO GET
5
INTO THIS LIKE THIS.
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IT WOULD BE A SHORTER
7
AGREEMENT IF ANYONE WHO EVER HAD A NEW THOUGHT
8
WASN'T ALLOWED TO RAISE THEIR HAND.
9
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT, LET'S, LET'S
10
-- OKAY. ALL OF US HERE FOR A SECOND HERE.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I WOULD SCRATCH THE WORD
12
COtmTY IN EACH CASE BECAUSE IT'S THE CROSS SEMINOLE
13
TRAIL.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: LET'S NOT GET CYNICAL
15
HERE. LET'S NOT GET TESTY HERE. LET'S JUST GO
16
THROUGH THIS VERY CALMLY.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IF YOU HAD AN UNIMPROVED
18
BUFFER AREA HERE, COMMISSIONER MCLEOD, WITH AN
19
UNPAVED HORSE TRAIL IN IT IN YOUR EXAMPLE, THE TEN
20
FOOTER, I MEAN, TO UTILIZE THE BUFFER AS THE
21
BUILDING SETBACK LINE AT THE SAME TIME WOULD BE
22
TANTAMOUNT TO A ZERO SETBACK. I DON'T THINK THIS
23
IS OFFENSIVE.
24
NOW, YOU SAY, WELL, I REPRESENT THE
25
SCHRIMSHERS, BUT THINK ABOUT IT. WE ARE NOT GOING
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
UP TO ST. JOHN'S SUBDIVISION BUILDING LINE.
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ISN'T ALL THAT IN
3
THE LANGUAGE OF NEGOTIATIONS WITHIN THE TOWN
4
CENTER, RON?
5
MR. MCLEMORE: THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, THE
6
WAY THAT THIS IS, IF IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY COVERED
7
IN THIS AGREEMENT, THEN THE RULES OF THE TOWN
8
CENTER APPLY.
9
SO IF THIS ISSUE ABOUT THE BUILDING LINE AS
10
RELATED TO THE BUFFER IS NOT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED
11
IN THIS AGREEMENT, THEN IT'S GOING TO BE WHATEVER
12
IS PROVIDED IN THE TOWN CENTER RULES AND
13
GUIDELINES.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: BUT DOESN'T THAT
15
COME INTO PLAY ALSO WITH THE DEVELOPER IN THE
16
NEGOTIATING WITH THE CITY IN A DEVELOPMENT
17
AGREEMENT DOWN THE ROAD?
18
IS THAT NOT ONE OF THE PRACTICAL DEALS?
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NOT IF THEY WANT IT
20
BUILT TO CODE WITHOUT A DEVELOPER'S AGREEMENT. IN
21
THAT CASE, AS I READ THE CODE, I WOULD THINK THAT
22
THE -- EITHER THEY HAVE TO OBSERVE THE SETBACK FROM
23
THE PROPERTY LINE, AND IF THE BUFFER IS PART OF
24
THAT, THEN AS IT IS CURRENTLY DEFINED, I THINK THEY
25
COULD BUILD UP TO THE BUFFER.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THE SETBACK -- LET'S USE A
2
REAL EXAMPLE HERE TO TRY AND ILLUSTRATE WHAT I'M
3
TALKING ABOUT.
4
IF THE OUTER EDGE OF THE TRAIL, THE TRAIL
5
PROPERTY, IS THIRTY FEET FROM ST. JOHN'S LANDING,
6
WE REQUIRE A FIFTY FOOT BUFFER. THERE'S TWENTY
7
FEET ADDITIONAL PROPERTY THERE.
8
EVEN THOUGH THE PROPERTY LINE IS TWENTY FEET
9
UP, THEY HAVE TO THEN SETBACK TWENTY FEET AND BUILD
10
ALONG THE BUFFER.
11
SO NOW THE BUFFER IS STILL FIFTY FEET LONG.
12
AND INSTEAD OF A TEN FOOT SETBACK FROM THE PROPERTY
13
LINE, BECAUSE OF THE BUFFER, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO
14
USE A TWENTY FOOT SETBACK LINE.
15
AND ALTERNATIVELY, IF THE TRAIL HAPPENS TO BE
16
FIFTY FEET WIDE -- OR LET'S JUST GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF
17
FIFTY-ONE FEET WIDE AT THAT POINT/ THE BUFFER IS
18
ONLY REQUIRED TO BE FIFTY FEET
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, IT'S FIFTY-ONE.
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE
21
ME. I'M GETTING THERE. I'M GETTING THERE.
22
THE BUFFER IS ONLY REQUIRED TO BE FIFTY FEET
23
OR THE TRAIL WIDTH IF IT'S WIDER. SO NOW THE
24
BUFFER IS FIFTY-ONE FEET. THE BUILDING LINE IS TEN
25
FEET FARTHER UP. SO THEY HAVE TO BUILD SIXTY-ONE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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35
1
FEET FROM THE ST. JOHN'S LANDING.
2
I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT THE CODE CURRENTLY SAYS.
3
AND THE INSERTION OF THIS BUFFER LANGUAGE, AS WE
4
HAVE IT HERE, WOULD GIVE US THAT OUTCOME.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: LET ME -- LET ME -- LET
6
ME MAKE A POINT. NOW, DON'T WE HAVE -- MAYBE,
7
CHARLES, ALL HE HAS TO DO IS INTERPRET WHAT THE
8
CITY CODE IS, SO WE ARE NOT BEING REDUNDANT HERE?
9
MR. MCLEMORE: THERE ARE NO REQUIRED
10
SETBACKS IN THE TOWN CENTER.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THEN WE ARE OKAY.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: WE ARE OKAY.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE ARE OKAY IF IT
14
I S ALREADY IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE TOWN CENTER.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THEN WE WILL SAY THE
16
SETBACKS ARE THE BUFFER.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE EDGE OF THE BUFFER.
19
OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: LET'S MOVE ON. AGAIN, I
21
JUST WANT TO CAUTION --
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ON NUMBER 2,
23
EVERYBODY IS AGREEMENT THE WAY IT IS ON THIS PAGE?
24
THAT'S THE QUESTION WE NEED TO ASK.
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES, BUT HE POSED A
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
QUESTION ON THE BUFFER THAT WAS CLARIFIED. SO NOW
2
IS THIS CORRECT?
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, IT'S CORRECT.
4
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YES, IT'S CORRECT,
5
EXCEPT WE SHOULD SCRATCH THE WORD COUNTY IN EACH
6
CASE BECAUSE IT'S CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL.
7
MR. MCLEMORE: WE WILL AGREE TO CROSS
8
THAT OUT.
9
MAYOR PARTYKA: I WANT TO CAUTION
10
EVERYBODY AGAIN. THE SCHRIMSHERS HERE, AND
11
INCLUDING US, WE ARE ALLOWED TO CLARIFY POSITIONS,
12
ALL RIGHT. THAT'S ALL WE ARE TRYING TO DO.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ALL RIGHT. LET ME
14
CLARIFY, MAYOR. WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS
15
CLARIFY THE INTENT OF THE MINUTES FOR THAT MEETING.
16
NOW, IF WE PUT BUFFER IN THERE, THAT WASN'T
17
THAT MEETING, CORRECT.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: BUFFER WAS. SETBACK
19
WASN'T.
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: BUFFER WAS THERE.
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: CORRECT, EXACTLY. IT'S
22
JUST A RELATED ISSUE THAT WAS NOT DISCUSSED.
23
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I UNDERSTAND, BUT
24
WHAT WE HAVE ASKED TO HAVE CLARIFIED IS THE
25
AGREEMENT FOR THE MINUTES OF THAT MEETING.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I AGREE.
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. SO LET'S
3
CLARIFY THAT MEETING.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT. WE HAVE AGREED
5
TO THESE MINUTES, THAT'S IT. BUT IT HAS RIPPLE
6
EFFECTS.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT.
8
LET'S GO.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: BUT YOU NEED TO KNOW
10
THAT IT HAS RIPPLE EFFECTS. THE NEXT THING YOU
11
KNOW, THE INDICATION IS WE HAVE AGREED TO THESE
12
MINUTES, THAT'S IT. WELL, THAT AIN'T IT. IT HAS
13
RIPPLE EFFECTS.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONERS,
15
AGAIN, ALL WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS GET TO POINT
16
IF THERE'S A COUPLE OF ISSUES THAT NO ONE HAS
17
THOUGHT ABOUT UNTIL TODAY, LET'S HANDLE IT, THAT'S
18
ALL. WE WANT TO HANDLE THIS THING
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE ARE NOT GOING TO
20
HANDLE IN THIS SET OF MINUTES. THIS IS THE SET OF
21
MINUTES FOR THAT MEETING. THAT'S ALL I WANT.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER, IF THIS
23
DOESN'T GO AWAY, ALL OF THIS COMES UP AGAIN.
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: GREAT. ALL -- FOR
25
RIGHT NOW, WHAT I'VE ASKED FOR, MR. MAYOR, IS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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38
1
CLARIFICATION OF WHAT MR. BLAKE, MYSELF, THE
2
SCHRIMSHERS, THE CITY MANAGER, CITY STAFF SAT IN ON
3
AS A SET OF MINUTES SO THAT WE HAVE THE MINUTES
4
CLARIFIED.
5
NOW, IF THERE'S OTHER ISSUES THAT MAY COME OUT
6
OF THOSE MINUTES, THAT'S A WHOLE ANOTHER DEAL.
7
LET'S CLARIFY THEM NOW.
8
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: MR. MAYOR, DIDN'T
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF SAY THAT YOU WERE GOING OVER THE
10
MINUTES AND YOU WOULD EITHER AGREE OR NOT AGREE.
11
AND IF IT WERE SIMPLE ISSUES TO BE TAKEN CARE OF,
12
YOU WOULD TAKE CARE OF THEM WITH THE STAFF IN THE
13
NEXT FOURTEEN DAYS. ISN'T THAT WHAT THEY SAID?
~
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO, THAT WAS THE
15
LANGUAGE.
16
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: THAT'S WHAT HE
17
SAID.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT WAS THE LANGUAGE.
19
THAT WAS THE LANGUAGE. ALL RIGHT. LET'S GET
20
THROUGH IT. NUMBER 3.
21
MR. MCLEMORE: 3 IS DEALING WITH THE
22
EXTERNAL WALL REQUIREMENTS BETWEEN ST. JOHN'S
23
LANDING AND THE TOWN CENTER. WHEN I SAY EXTERNAL,
24
I MEAN EXTERNAL TO THE TOWN CENTER, NOT INTERNAL TO
25
THE TOWN CENTER.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
THE CITY DESIRES TO HAVE A SIX FOOT MASONRY
2
WALL CONSTRUCTED BETWEEN THE TOWN CENTER AND ST.
3
JOHN'S LANDING. THE COMMERCIAL OR MULTI-FAMILY
4
USES ARE CONSTRUCTED ON TOWN CENTER PROPERTY
5
ADJACENT TO ST. JOHN'S LANDING.
6
SCHRIMSHERS DESIRE TO CONSTRUCT THE WALL ONLY
7
IF REQUIRED BY CITY CODE, AND THE SCHRIMSHERS WOULD
8
HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO CONSTRUCT THE WALL ON
9
EITHER SIDE OF THE CROSS SEMINOLE COUNTY TRAIL
10
DEPENDING UPON CONDITIONS AT THE TIME OF THE DESIGN
11
OF THE TOWN CENTER.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
13
MR. MCLEMORE: THE AGREEMENT THAT WAS
14
FORGED OUT WAS THAT THE PARTIES AGREED TO A SIX
15
FOOT HIGH MASONRY WALL BE CONSTRUCTED ON THE
16
SCHRIMSHER PROPERTY ON THE ST. JOHN'S LANDING SIDE
17
OF THE CROSS SEMINOLE COUNTY TRAIL -- AND WE
18
UNDERSTAND THE COUNTY PART OF THIS.
19
THE LENGTH OF THE PLATTED DEVELOPMENT LOTS OF
20
ST. JOHN'S LANDING, THE WALL REMAINS THE PROPERTY
21
OF THE SCHRIMSHER PROPERTY OR ITS SUCCESSORS, AND
22
THE INDEPENDENT PROPERTY OWNERS OF ST. JOHN'S
23
LANDING LIVING ADJACENT TO THE WALL SHOULD BE GIVEN
24
THE RIGHT, AT THEIR EXPENSE, TO CONSTRUCT AN ACCESS
25
OPENING THROUGH THE WALL FOR PURPOSES OF ACCESS TO
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
CROSS SEMINOLE COUNTY TRAIL, PROVIDED THE ACCESS
2
DESIGN MEETS THE STANDARDS OF THE SCHRIMSHER
3
PROPERTIES AND THE CITY.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD AND
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE, IS THIS WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND IT
6
TO BE?
7
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I THINK THAT WE NEED
8
MORE CLARIFYING LANGUAGE OF EXACTLY WHERE THE WALL,
9
WHICH WOULD BE THE SOUTHEAST TERMINUS OF THE WALL
10
-- I DON'T THINK THAT'S AS CLEARLY AS WE HAD
11
PINPOINTED ON THE MAP.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YEAH. WE HAD
13
PINPOINTED THAT OUT AND HAD VERBIAGE TO COVER THAT.
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND WE AGREE WITH THOSE
15
TWO COMMENTS.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE
18
ALSO THOUGHT OF THAT WE DIDN'T DISCUSS THERE WAS WE
19
NEED TO RESERVE AN EASEMENT WHEN THE TRAIL IS
20
CONVEYED TO THE TRAIL --
21
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE HAD THAT
22
DISCUSSION.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE HAD THE DISCUSSION,
24
BUT IT WASN'T IN THE AGREEMENT, NOR --
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NO, BECAUSE THAT'S
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
UP TO YOU. WE ARE NOT PART OF THAT AGREEMENT.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO. IT STILL NEEDS TO
3
GET IN THE MINUTES.
4
COMMISSION MCLEOD: NO, BECAUSE THAT'S
5
NOT AN AGREEMENT.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YOU GUYS DO THE SURVEY
7
AND THE APPRAISALS, AND I'M TELLING YOU THAT THAT
8
NEEDS TO BE IN THERE, OKAY, BECAUSE THE APPRAISAL
9
-- THE PEOPLE AT THE OFFICE OF GREENWAYS AND TRAILS
10
SAY, LOOK, GO AHEAD AND RESERVE THE EASEMENTS THAT
11
YOU WANT TO FOR RIGHT-OF-WAY, UTILITIES AND WHAT
12
HAVE YOU.
13
WE DID NOT SPECIFICALLY TALK ABOUT THE
14
MAINTENANCE OF THE WALL ON THE NORTH SIDE, BUT IT
15
NEEDS TO BE IN THERE JUST LIKE THOSE OTHER THINGS.
16
AND WHEN WE DO THE SURVEY, WE NEED TO SHOW
17
THAT. YOU KNOW, A LITTLE FIVE FOOT MAINTENANCE
18
STRIP.
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, WE ALSO, IF
20
YOU WANT TO GO INTO THAT, WE TALKED ABOUT THE
21
SCHRIMSHERS POSSIBLY JUST GOING AHEAD AND CONVEYING
22
THE WHOLE WALL OVER TO THE PEOPLE AT ST. JOHN'S.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, WE
24
SURE DID. IT'S NOT IN THE MINUTES.
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT WASN'T THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
AGREEMENT. WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS WHAT WE
2
AGREED ON HERE, RIGHT?
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, SIR.
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE AGREE WITH WHAT Y'ALL
6
HAVE SAID.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: LET ME DO THIS --
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THE MINUTES ARE
9
OVERLAPS.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: LET ME JUST -- THIS IS
11
BILLED ON YOUR TIME.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THEN I'LL LET YOU
13
SPEAK.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THE AGREEMENT IS
15
AS STATED. WE HAVE AGREED TO THAT. THE ISSUE ON
16
THE TABLE THAT WE WILL DISCUSS AT THE END IS THIS
17
ISSUE ON THE EASEMENT. HOW IS THAT?
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YEAH.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE THOUGHT A FOUR FOOT
21
HOLE IN THE WALL WOULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR A GATE.
22
WE HAD INTRODUCED THE IDEA OF FOUR FEET, AND WHEN
23
WE DISCUSSED AN ACTUAL WIDTH, WE THOUGHT THAT WOULD
24
BE APPROPRIATE. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
2S
WE DID NOT TALK ABOUT THAT AT THE MEETING, THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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43
1
FOUR FEET. MIKE AND I HAVE SINCE THOUGHT ABOUT
2
THAT, WANTED TO PROPOSE THAT AT A STAFF MEETING.
3
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I DON'T THINK IT'S
4
A MATERIAL POINT.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I DON'T EITHER.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: WE WILL BRING THIS BACK
7
UP. BUT I THINK AT THIS POINT, THEY WAY WE HAVE IT
8
RIGHT NOW WITH THE ISSUE OF THE EASEMENT CAN BE
9
DISCUSSED AT THE END OF THIS.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: IS THIS CORRECT?
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, SIR.
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
14
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WITH THE EXCEPTION
15
OF WE NEED A BETTER DEFINITION, AND I THINK WE CAN
16
IF WE
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, BETTER
18
CLARIFICATION.
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WHILE I'M LOOKING ON
20
THIS MAP THAT WE HAVE TO SEE IF WE CAN
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE HAVE THE EXHIBIT
23
H THAT WE WILL GIVE TO YOU.
24
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT, SO --
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: DID WE HAVE ANY
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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44
1
DISCUSSION AS TO WHERE THE WALL ENDS?
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YEAH.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE END OF THE
4
DEVELOPABLE LOTS AND NOT IN FRONT OF THE RETENTION
5
PONDS. OUR LANGUAGE HAS THAT IN IT.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT WAS THE
7
SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE LAST LOT.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: DEVELOPABLE LOT BECAUSE
9
IT COULD BE A RETENTION POND WOULD BE A LOT. SO IT
10
WOULD BE A DEVELOPABLE LOT WITHIN THE ST. JOHN'S.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THE LAST
12
DEVELOPABLE LOT.
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: IS THAT CORRECT NOW WITH
15
SO FROM AN AGREEMENT STANDPOINT,
EVF.RYBODY HERE?
16
WE HAVE TO ADD THAT VERBIAGE IN IT.
17
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT ALMOST COULD
1.8
READ/ BY HOW IT'S WRITTEN HERE, THAT THE
19
SCHRIMSHERS ARE AGREEING TO BUILD A WALL NOT ON
20
THEIR PROPERTY, MAKING THE TERM, AND THAT'S WHAT I
21
WAS CONCERNED ABOUT, BECAUSE SCHRIMSHERS' PROPERTY
22
GOES ALL THE WAY AROUND TO THE LAKE.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO
24
AGREE TO DO THAT.
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, CAN WE HAVE IT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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45
1
IN CASH, THEN? DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING, THOUGH?
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, IT SOUNDS
3
RIGHT. IT SAYS THE PARTIES AGREE TO BUILD A SIX
4
FOOT MASONRY WALL. THE WALL WILL BE CONSTRUCTED ON
5
SCHRIMSHERS' PROPERTY ON THE ST. JOHN'S LANDING
6
SIDE OF THE CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL.
7
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: BUT WITHOUT TERMINUS, I
9
THINK COMMISSIONER BLAKE IS TALKING A NEED TO
10
TERMINATE. I THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE -- OUR
11
LANGUAGE THAT WE HAD PROPOSED WAS ALONG THE COMMON
12
BOUNDARY OF OUR PROPERTY AND THE DEVELOPABLE LOTS
13
WITHIN ST. JOHN'S LANDING.
14
THE WALL WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED ALONG THE
15
RETENTION POND.
16
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT IS CORRECT.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND THAT I S WHAT WE
18
AGREED TO, YOU KNOW, AND WE --
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE STILL AGREE TO
20
THAT.
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE STILL DO.
22
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: PIECE OF CAKE.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE
24
LANGUAGE?
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK COMMISSIONER
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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46
1
BLhKE IS TALKING ABOUT IT STOPPING SOMEWHERE
2
BECAUSE YOU DON'T USE DEVELOPABLE LOTS. AM I
3
RIGHT?
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: IS THAT CORRECT, THE
5
LENGTH OF IT? IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT?
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT SAYS THE LENGTH OF
7
DEVELOPABLE LOTS.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT SAYS THE SAME THING
9
THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK WE KNOW WHAT WE
11
ARE TALKING ABOUT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE IN
12
THE AGREEMENT --
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK THAT'S AN ISSUE.
15
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IT JUST COULD STATE IT
16
NEGATIVELY AND SAY THAT IT DOES NOT GO ALONG WITH
17
THE RETENTION POND.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THERE'S A SPECIFIC
19
REASON FOR BOTH OF US TO STOP IT THERE.
20
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. SO, AGAIN,
22
THE IMPORTANT THING IS CLARIFYING THE LANGUAGE HERE
23
TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
24
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, I'M NOT SURE I KNOW
25
WHAT THE CLARIFYING LANGUAGE IS THAT'S NEEDED.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
~
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47
1
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: HE DOESN'T WANT
2
THE WALL TO CONTINUE ON FOREVER.
3
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO. ON YOUR
4
EXHIBIT A, MR. MCLEMORE, THE WALL WOULD STOP ON THE
5
LAST SOUTHEAST BUILDABLE LOT. IT WOULD NOT
6
PROTRUDE ON ACROSS, BLOCKING OFF THE RETENTION POND
7
IN THE UPPER, RIGHT-HAND CORNER.
8
MR. MCLEMORE: TRIANGULAR LOT. IS THAT A
9
LOT NUMBER?
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK SOMEONE SAID AT
11
THAT MEETING THAT A PIECE OF THAT HAD BEEN
12
SOMEONE SAID A PIECE OF IT HAD BEEN ADDED TO ONE OF
13
THE DEVELOPABLE LOTS.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: RIGHT.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: SO WE NEED TO CLARIFY
16
THAT.
17
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WHEREVER THE END OF
18
THE DEVELOPABLE LOT IS NEXT TO THAT RETENTION POND.
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO DISPUTE.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT'S THE EXISTING
21
RETENTION POND?
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO DISPUTE.
23
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: CORRECT. THE
24
EXISTING ST. JOHN'S RETENTION POND.
25
MAYOR PARTYKA: WHERE DOES IT SAY IN YOUR
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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25
48
1.
AGREEMENT ON THE WALL?
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: PAGE 10 -- OR ARTICLE
3
11, PAGE 10, IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND PARAGRAPH.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THAT LANGUAGE
5
HERE, DOES THAT CLARIFY THAT IF WE USE THAT
6
LA}TGUAGE, COMMISSIONER BLAKE, COMMISSIONER MCLEOD?
7
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: IT SAYS THE SAME
8
THING.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT DOES SAY THE SAME
10
THING, COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
11.
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: OKAY.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY.
13
WE WILL GET THROUGH THIS. OKAY. WE ARE ALL AGREED
14
IT'S THE SAME THING, OKAY?
15
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE LANGUAGE IS FINE
16
AS PER THE MINUTES, AS STATED WITH THIS
17
CLARIFICATION. IS THAT WHAT WE ARE SAYING?
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: DO YOU MEAN THE MINUTES
19
OR OUR AGREEMENT?
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I READ YOUR
21
AGREEMENT AND I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT YOUR
22
AGREEMENT SAYS.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THANK YOU, SIR.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND WE WILL AMEND
THE MINUTES TO REFLECT THE LANGUAGE.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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49
1
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I FOLLOW YOU.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: THERE'S BETTER LANGUAGE
3
AT PAGE 10 OF 19, THEIR 17.
4
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE ARE UP TO NUMBER 4.
5
MR. GARGANESE: YOU ARE SAYING FINE TO
6
ALL OF THE BLACK LINES, ARE ACCEPTABLE?
7
(MULTI SPEAKERS, INAUDIBLE.)
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, PLEASE. I MEAN,
9
THlS IS STILL A FORMAL MEETING, NO COMIXING , NO
10
FUN STUFF. LET'S GET THROUGH THIS.
11
ALL RIGHT. WE ARE CLEAR ON THIS,
12
MR. GARGANESE?
13
MR. GARGANESE: I AM.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. GOOD.
15
NUMBER 4, CITY MANAGER.
16
MR. MCLEMORE: THIS SUBJECT DEALS WITH
17
INTERNAL TOWN CENTER WALL REQUIREMENTS.
18
THE CITY DESIRES MASONRY WALLS TO BE REQUIRED
19
BETWEEN SINGLE-FAMILY USES AND THEN COMMERCIAL USES
20
AND SINGLE-FAMILY USES AND MULTI-FAMILY USES UNLESS
21
WAIVED BY THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW COMMITTEE.
22
SCHRIMSHER DESIRES THE WALLS SHOULD BE PERMITTED
23
BUT NOT REQUIRED IN THE TOWN CENTER. TWO DIFFERENT
24
POINTS OF VIEW.
2S
THE PARTIES AGREE THAT THE WALLS IN THE TOWN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
CENTER MAY BE PERMITTED BUT SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED
2
EXCEPT AS PROVIDED FOR IN THE CURRENT LANGUAGE OF
3
THE TOWN CENTER CODE.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD AND
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE, IS THAT --
6
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT IS CORRECT.
7
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S CORRECT.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ALL THIS IS CORRECT?
10
THE ORDINANCE THAT'S PERCOLATING THROUGH TONIGHT I
11
THINK MAKES A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, WHICH IS
12
INCONSISTENT WITH THIS AGREEMENT.
13
NOW WHAT WE AGREED TO, IN THE MINUTES HERE, IS
14
A NEW ORDINANCE, DIFFERENT TWIST COMING THROUGH THE
15
ORDINANCE THAT WILL BE REVIEWED LATER THIS EVENING.
16
MR. GARGANESE: COMMISSION, WE TALKED A
17
LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT DURING THE WORKSHOP. IF IT'S
18
YOUR DESIRE TO AGREE WITH WHAT'S SET FORTH IN THESE
19
MINUTES, THEN WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK AND
20
CHANGE THE WALL ORDINANCE THAT'S PENDING.
21
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: THE BASIC ISSUE
22
IS IS THIS CORRECT? IF THIS IS CORRECT, WE WILL
23
DEAL WITH THE ORDINANCE LATER WHEN IT COMES UP.
24
MAYOR PARTYKA: WELL, IT MAY HAVE
25
IMPLICATIONS BECAUSE IF THE TOWN ORDINANCE MERITS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
!
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51
1
CHANGES
2
COMMISSIONER: YEAH. I THINK THE FIRST
3
THING THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THIS
4
IS TWO COMMISSIONERS, PROPERTY OWNER, CITY MANAGER.
5
THE REST OF THE COMMISSION DEFINITELY -- ALL I
6
WANT TO DO IS GET THROUGH IS THIS WHAT WE AGREED
7
AND DISCUSSED IN THOSE MINUTES.
8
NOW, WHETHER THIS COMMISSION AGREES TO WHAT
9
COMMISSIONER BLAKE AND I AGREED TO AT THAT TIME IS
10
TOTALLY A DIFFERENT ISSUE, OKAY.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: I AGREE.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE WERE NOT THERE
13
TO BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR THEM.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO, WE AGREE.
15
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. I WANTED TO
16
MAKE SURE THAT'S UNDERSTOOD.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: I BELIEVE EVERY
18
COMMISSIONER IS SPEAKING THEIR MIND HERE.
19
ALL RIGHT. IS -- THE IMPACT ON THE NEW
20
ORDINANCES, IS THAT GOING TO CHANGE OR EFFECT WHAT
21
WE ARE TRYING TO DO HERE, OR WHAT?
22
MR. GARGANESE: MR. GRINDSTAFF MADE A
23
COMMENT I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY, THAT HIS
24
STATEMENT WAS CORRECT, THAT THERE IS A POTENTIAL
25
CONFLICT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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.
52
1
BUT FOR PURPOSES OF THE DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW,
2
YOU ARE TALKING SOLELY ABOUT THE MINUTES AND
3
WHAT COMMISSIONER MCLEOD, COMMISSIONER BLAKE AND
4
MR. MCLEMORE AGREED TO WITH THE SCHRIMSHERS.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. OKAY. SO IS THIS
6
POSITION CORRECT THEN FROM BOTH OF OUR STAND
7
POINTS?
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YES.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: AND THE ISSUE ON THE
11
TABLE, OR ON THE PARKING LOT, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU
12
LOOK AT IT, IS THE NEW ORDINANCE, THE NEW WALL, THE
13
NEW WALL ORDINANCE, OKAY?
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT, WHETHER WE AGREE
15
OR NOT AGREE.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT TAKES CARE OF 4.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. NEXT ONE.
19
MR. MCLEMORE: NUMBER 5, THE CITY JUST
20
DEALS WITH THE RELOCATION OF THE PAVED TRAIL, WHICH
21
IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE HAD APPLIED FOR AND THE
22
STATE HAD APPROVED.
23
THE CITY DESIRES THE PAVED SECTION OF THE
24
CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL TO BE CONSTRUCTED AND APPROVED
25
BY THE STATE AS SHOWN ON EXHIBIT A.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
SCHRIMSHER DESIRES THE PAVED SECTION OF THE
2
EAST/WEST SECTION OF THE TRAIL TO BE RELOCATED
3
NORTH ON THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK AND
4
EDGE DRIVE AS SHOWN ON EXHIBIT A.
5
THE PARTIES AGREE THAT WEST, EAST/WEST SECTION
6
OF THE PAVED TRAIL MAY BE RELOCATED TO RUN ALONG
7
THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK AND/OR ALONG
8
THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF EDGE DRIVE.
9
SCHRIMSHER AGREES TO DEDICATE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY
10
IN ADDITION TO THAT PROVIDED FOR EDGE DRIVE TO
11
ACCOMMODATE THAT SECTION OF THE TRAIL RELOCATED ON
12
PROPERTY ALONG THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF EDGE DRIVE
13
IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE STATE REGULATIONS AS SHOWN
14
IN EXHIBIT A.
15
THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE THAT IN NO CASE
16
SHALL CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL STREET BE LOCATED ANY
17
FURTHER NORTH THAN CURRENTLY SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A,
18
OTHER THAN TO ACCOMMODATE ADJUSTMENTS/ THE SOLE
19
PURPOSE OF WHICH WOULD BE TO STRAIGHTEN THE ROAD OR
20
DIVIDE FOR A MORE FAVORABLE SITE LINE OR CURVATURES
21
OF THE ROAD.
22
THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE THAT IN NO CASE
23
SHALL CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL STREET BE RELOCATED MORE
24
THAN ONE HUNDRED FEET SOUTH TOWARD STATE ROAD 434
25
FROM THE STREET'S CURRENT ALIGNMENT AS DEPICTED IN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
EXHIBIT A.
2
THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE THAT PARKS FIVE AND
3
FOUR AS SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A MAY BE RELOCATED EAST
4
AND WEST NOT MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY FEET
5
AND SOUTH NOT MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED FEET PROVIDED
6
THAT THEIR RELATIVE LOCATION WITH ACCESS TO AND
7
ALIGNMENT WITH THE CURRENT STREET LAYOUT IS
8
PRESERVED.
9
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
10
MR. MCLEMORE: AND ON YOUR MAP --
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MR. MAYOR.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I WOULD LIKE TO
14
SUGGEST THAT AS THE CITY MANAGER READS THESE OUT,
15
IF CHARLES WOULDN'T MIND POINTING ON THE MAP UP
16
HERE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC OF WHAT THE MANAGER IS
17
ACTUALLY SPEAKING ABOUT, FOLLOW THROUGH, OKAY,
18
BECAUSE I THINK THE COMMISSIONERS COULD FOLLOW IT
19
POSSIBLY A LITTLE BETTER THAT WEREN'T THERE.
20
WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THIS WHOLE
21
THING. SO I THINK IT WOULD BENEFIT EVERYBODY.
22
MR. MCLEMORE: IS KIP HERE OR IS HE GONE?
23
KIP IS DRAWING THE MAPS, SO WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO
24
GET HIM TO DO IT.
25
CHARLES, DO YOU THINK YOU UNDERSTAND THIS WELL
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
ENOUGH?
2
MR. CARRINGTON: YES.
3
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY, IF YOU WILL COME UP.
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: CHARLES SAT IN THE
5
MEETING/ SO I THINK HE .
6
MR. MCLEMORE: OH, THAT'S RIGHT. I
7
FORGOT. BUT HE HAS NOT SEEN, I DON'T THINK, THIS
8
GRAPHIC. HE'S BEEN OUT.
9
IF WE CAN GO TO --
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: CAN YOU JUST READ
11
THE AGREEMENT PART AGAIN, IF YOU WILL?
12
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY.
13
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND WHILE YOU ARE
14
READING THAT, CHARLES CAN POINT.
15
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY. EXCUSE ME. THE
16
PARTIES AGREE THAT THE EAST/WEST SECTION OF THE
17
PAVED TRAIL MAY BE RELOCATED TO RUN ALONG THE
18
SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK. ALL RIGHT.
19
AND/OR ALONG THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY OF EDGE DRIVE,
20
WHICH IS THE SAME STREET, ALL RIGHT, BUT ON THE
21
OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: DID YOU SAY NORTHERN OR
23
SOUTHERN RIGHT THERE?
24
MR. MCLEMORE: ON THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY
25
OF EDGE DRIVE.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK YOU SAID
2
NORTHERN.
3
MR. MCLEMORE: OH, DID I?
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ONE OF THE THINGS WE
5
TALKED ABOUT WAS IT COULD BE ON EITHER SIDE.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS
7
BASICALLY, AND/OR ALONG THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF
8
EDGE DRIVE.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. AND/OR ALONG THE
10
NORTHERN OR SOUTHERN, EDGE, OKAY.
11
MR. MCLEMORE: SCHRIMSHER AGREES TO
12
DEDICATE THE RIGHT-OF-WAY IN ADDITION TO THAT
13
PROVIDED FOR EDGE DRIVE TO ACCOMMODATE THAT SECTION
14
OF THE TRAIL RELOCATED ON PROPERTY ALONG THE
15
SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF EDGE DRIVE IN ACCORDANCE WITH
16
STATE REGULATIONS AS SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A.
17
BASICALLY WHAT WE ARE SAYING THERE IS EDGE
18
DRIVE IS FIFTY FEET. WE DON'T WANT ANY PORTION OF
19
THAT FIFTY FEET BEING THE TRAIL.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S CORRECT. EDGE
21
DRIVE WOULD NOT BE -- THE WIDTH OF EDGE DRIVE WOULD
22
NOT BE REDUCED. THE TRAIL COULD BE ON THE NORTH OR
23
THE SOUTH OF EDGE DRIVE.
24
MR. MCLEMORE: THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE
25
THAT IN NO CASE SHALL THE CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
STREET BE LOCATED -- AND THAT CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL
2
STREET IS THE NAME OF THE STREET. AND CHARLES,
3
THAT'S THE RED LINE. NO, COME DOWN, COME DOWN.
4
KEEP COMING.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: LIGHT BLUE.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: KEEP COMING.
7
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: IT'S THE LIGHT
8
BLUE AT THE BOTTOM.
9
MR. MCLEMORE: STOP. CHARLES, LISTEN TO
10
ME. IT'S THE STREET THAT THE TRAIL USED TO BE ON.
11
THERE YOU GO. YES.
12
THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE THAT IN NO CASE
13
SHALL CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL STREET BE LOCATED ANY
14
FURTHER NORTH AS CURRENTLY SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A --
15
WHICH IS THAT EXHIBIT, OF COURSE
OTHER THAN TO
16
ACCOMMODATE ADJUSTMENTS, THE SOLE PURPOSE WHICH
17
WOULD BE TO STRAIGHTEN THE ROAD -- AND AS YOU CAN
18
SEE, THERE ARE SOME BENDS IN THE ROAD -- OR PROVIDE
19
FOR A MORE FAVORABLE SITE LINE OR CURVATURES OF THE
20
ROAD.
21
THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION OF TRYING TO
22
STRAIGHTEN IT OUT FOR THOSE VARIOUS KIND OF
23
REASONS.
24
THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE THAT IN NO CASE THE
25
CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL STREET BE RELOCATED MORE THAN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
ONE HUNDRED FEET SOUTH TOWARD STATE ROAD 434, ALL
2
RIGHT, FROM THE STREET'S CURRENT ALIGNMENT AS
3
DEPICTED IN EXHIBIT A.
4
THE PARTIES FURTHER AGREE THAT PARKS FIVE AND
5
FOTffi, OKAY, AS SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A MAY BE RELOCATED
6
EAST AND WEST NOT MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY
7
FEET. IT CAN GO EITHER WAY, OKAY. AND NOT MORE
8
THAN ONE HUNDRED FEET SOUTH PROVIDED THAT THEIR
9
RELATIVE LOCATIONS WITH ACCESS TO AN ALIGNMENT WITH
10
THE CURRENT STREET LAYOUT IS PRESERVED.
11
THAT IS, THEY WOULD STILL BE ON THE EDGE OF
12
THE ROAD AND THEY WOULD STILL LINE UP WITH THE
13
ROADS THAT ARE PERPENDICULAR BUT COULD MOVE A
14
HUNDRED FEET SOUTH OR TWO HUNDRED FIFTY FEET EITHER
15
WAY.
16
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OF THE BOARD AT THIS
17
POINT?
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
19
MCLEOD, COMMISSIONER BLAKE, IS THAT CORRECT, THE
20
WAY IT'S HERE?
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT'S PRETTY MUCH
22
THE WAY I UNDERSTOOD IT.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE ONLY THING I WOULD
24
CLARIFY, MR. MAYOR, AND MR. MCLEOD, JUST TO SEE IF
25
YOU AGREE WITH IT, JUST TO BE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
WE JUST SAID, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, UNDER THE
2
SECOND LINE OF THE AGREEMENT, IT SAYS IT WILL RUN
3
ALONG THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK AND/OR
4
ALONG THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF EDGE AND WOULD BE --
5
AND/OR ALONG EITHER THE NORTHERN OR SOUTHERN.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, NOT EXACTLY, BECAUSE
7
THE WAY IT WAS INITIALLY WAS -- AND IF THIS HAS
8
CHANGED, LET ME KNOW -- THAT THAT WOULD RESULT IN
9
WE ARE SPECIFICALLY SAYING THAT THE TRAIL WOULD
10
BE ON WETLAND PARK, NOT ON THE STREET.
11
WHEREAS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY
12
OF EDGE STREET, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE ADJACENT TO
13
EDGE ROAD ON THE SOUTHERN END, SOUTHERN PART OF IT.
14
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YOU GUYS ARE TALKING
15
ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, I THINK WHAT WE ARE
17
TALKING ABOUT, RON, THAT WOULD BE ON THE NORTH
18
SIDE. IT WOULD BE BETWEEN THE ROAD AND THE --
19
MR. MCLEMORE: WETLAND PARK.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WETLAND PARK, WHICH
21
WOULD BE A MORE DESIRABLE -- NOW, THE ROAD MAY HAVE
22
TO SHIFT TO MAKE ROOM FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.
23
MR. MCLEMORE: FOR THE ROAD.
24
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YEAH, BUT STILL MAINTAIN
25
THE WIDTH OF FIFTY FEET.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, IT SAYS TO PROVIDE
2
BETTER BENEFIT.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, IT COULD WORK TO
4
YOUR BENEFIT, BELIEVE IT OR NOT. I MEAN, YOU NEED
5
TO UNDERSTAND THAT.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YEAH, BUT IT SAYS
7
TO BE LOCATED TO RUN ALONG THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF
8
WETLAND PARK, OKAY.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S ONE THING.
10
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S ONE POINT.
11
AND/OR ALONG THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF EDGE DRIVE.
12
SO IF EDGE DRIVE IS UP AGAINST WETLAND PARK, THEN
13
THE TRAIL COULD BE ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF EDGE
14
DRIVE.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT COULD BE. WE AGREE
16
WITH THAT. THE IMPORTANT DISTINCTION, THOUGH, IS
17
THAT IT COULD BE --
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NORTH OF EDGE
19
DRIVE.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NORTH OF EDGE DRIVE.
21
BETWEEN EDGE DRIVE AND WETLAND PARK.
22
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: RIGHT. AND THE TERM
23
NORTH OF EDGE DRIVE EQUALS THE TERM OF THE SOUTHERN
24
BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK.
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, LET ME ASK
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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YOU THIS: WOULDN'T BE SOUTH OF THE BOUNDARY OF
2
WETLAND PARK, THE TRAIL, AND NOW YOU ARE GOING TO
3
PUT EDGE DRIVE ON THE MAP/ IT'S THE SAME THING AS
4
BEING NORTH. I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM
5
PUTTING NORTH IN THERE.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I WAS JUST SAYING I
7
THINK IT COULD BE EITHER SIDE. BUT THE IMPORTANT
8
THING FOR THE CITY --
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I THINK YOU'VE SAID
10
IT HERE ANYHOW.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, WE SAID IT. THE
12
IMPORTANT THING IS TO SAY THAT EDGE DRIVE WILL NOT
13
BE REDUCED, THE WIDTH OF THAT WON'T BE REDUCED.
14
THAT I S WHAT YOU NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.
15
THAT WAY WE ARE NOT TRYING TO TAKE THAT TRAIL
16
AND SLIP IT OVER ONTO YOUR WETLAND PARK. I THINK
17
THAT WAS MAYBE A THOUGHT.
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, NO, IT SAYS A
19
PAVED TRAIL MAY LOCATE TO RUN ALONG THE SOUTHERN
20
BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK. IT DOESN'T SAY IT'S
21
GOING TO RUN IN THE PARK. SOUTHERN BOUNDARY. SO
22
YOU HAVE ALREADY MOVED TO THE SOUTH THERE.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AGREED. BUT IT MIGHT BE
24
ON THE NORTH SIDE OF EDGE DRIVE INSTEAD OF THE
25
SOUTH SIDE OF EDGE DRIVE.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OR ON THE SOUTHERN
2
BOUNDARY OF EDGE DRIVE. OKAY. WELL, I CAN'T SE
3
HOW YOU CAN INTERPRET THAT TO BE ANYTHING BUT IF IT
4
WAS GOING TO BE SOUTH OF THE WETLAND PARK, IT WAS
5
GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY BE NORTH OF EDGE DRIVE.
6
I MEAN, THAT t S WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT. I
7
THINK THIS LANGUAGE SAYS THAT, BUT THAT WILL
8
CLARIFY IT.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YOU COULD BE ON THE
10
NORTHERN OR SOUTHERN SIDE OF EDGE DRIVE AND STILL
11
BE SOUTH OF WETLAND PARK. YOU SEE BETWEEN EDGE
12
DRIVE AND WETLAND PARK
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S NOT THE
14
DISTINCTION THAT I WAS MAKING.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YEAH.
16
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MY DISTINCTION WAS
17
THE TRAIL WAS GOING TO BE LOCATED ON WETLAND PARK
18
PROPERTY.
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: HUH-UH. IT MIGHT BE
20
CONTIGUOUS TO IT.
21
MR. MCLEMORE: CONTIGUOUS, YOU ARE RIGHT.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: WHERE IS YOUR LANGUAGE
23
THAT SAYS THAT, THAT CLARIFIES THAT? I'M LOOKING
24
FOR IT. IS IT PAGE 11?
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, NO, THAT WOULDN'T BE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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63
1
PAGE 11.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: MAYBE IT SHOULD BE
3
EARLIER.
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT TRAIL, THE
5
TRAIL ITSELF IS NOT TO BE ON WETLAND PARK.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: PAGE 15, BETWEEN EDGE
7
DRIVE AND WETLAND PARK. YOUR POINT EIGHT THREE
8
FARE. REMEMBER THAT ONE.
9
MAYOR PARTYKA: I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE
10
WE GET THE RIGHT LANGUAGE.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, I DON'T.
12
MR. MCLEMORE: PAGE 4, PARAGRAPH --
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THERE IT IS. YEAH.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: SAYS -- IS THAT THE ONE?
15
SCHRIMSHER AND THE CITY ALSO AGREE THAT THE
16
EAST/WEST SECTION OF THE PAVED PORTION OF CROSS
17
SEMINOLE TRAIL MAY BE LOCATED ON EITHER SIDE OF
18
EDGE DRIVE AS GENERALLY DEPICTED ON PAGE 11 OF THE
19
TOWN CENTER DISTRICT CODE SO LONG AS THE CROSS
20
SEMINOLE TRAIL DOES NOT REDUCE THE WIDTH OF EDGE
21
DRIVE?
22
DOES THAT SAY IT TO YOU ALL?
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I DON'T HAVE ANY
24
PROBLEM WITH THAT LANGUAGE AS IT'S WRITTEN.
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
MR. MCLEMORE: OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT
2
THE EXHIBIT MIGHT CHANGE, THE TITLE.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE EXHIBIT TITLE?
4
MR. MCLEMORE: YOU REFERENCED THE TITLE
5
IN THE CODE, I BELIEVE.
6
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YOU PICKED IT UP ON
7
PAGE 11.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OH, YEAH.
9
MR. MCLEMORE: WE WERE WORKING OFF OF
10
THIS DOCUMENT.
11
MR. GARGANESE: RIGHT. IN FACT, THAT'S
12
THE LANGUAGE PRACTICALLY VERBATIM THAT WE PROPOSED
13
TO THEM.
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. AND THAT HAPPENS
15
A LOT, JUST DIFFERENT PLACES.
16
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY. SO WE ARE IN
17
AGREEMENT. IT DOES.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. SO WE ARE IN
19
AGREEMENT WITH THIS?
20
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: WHAT ABOUT --
21
CITY MANAGER?
22
MR. MCLEMORE: YES.
23
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: WHAT ABOUT THE
24
REST OF THAT SECTION?
25
MR. MCLEMORE: ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ON
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
ANY OTHER PART OF THIS?
2
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: THAT'S WHAT I
3
WOULD LIKE TO KNOW. IT TALKS ABOUT - - IT TALKS
4
ABOUT TWO ONE RATIO. IT TALKS ABOUT --
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NO, NO, NO. WE ARE
6
NOT TALKING ABOUT THE AGREEMENT.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO, WE ARE JUST TALKING
8
ABOUT THE MINUTES HERE. STRICTLY THE VERBIAGE, THE
9
WORDS OF THE AGREEMENT, READ THROUGH THE WORDS OF
10
THE AGREEMENT TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THESE FIVE OR
11
SIX LINES.
12
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: OKAY. SO YOU ARE
13
NOT GOING THROUGH THAT PAGE AGAIN WE DID BEFORE?
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO, NO. OKAY?
15
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: GOT YOU.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. SO WE ARE
17
BOTH IN AGREEMENT ON THIS NOW?
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, SIR, WITH THAT
19
TWEAKAGE.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. VERY GOOD. OKAY,
21
6.
22
MR. MCLEMORE: THIS PARTICULAR DRAFT WILL
23
CORRELATE WITH WHAT'S IN THE CODE, BUT IT GIVES
24
MORE INFORMATION THAN WHAT'S IN THE CODE AND THAT'S
25
THE REASON --
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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66
1
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND WE CAN READ IT
2
WITHOUT THESE NAMES.
3
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY, THAT'S FINE.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. NUMBER 6.
5
MR. MCLEMORE: NUMBER 6, ELIMINATION OF
6
PARK THREE. SCHRIMSHERS DESIRE TO ELIMINATE PARK
7
THREE AS SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A.
8
THE CITY DESIRES THE PARK THREE TO REMAIN AS
9
CURRENTLY SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A.
10
THE PARTIES AGREE THAT PARK THREE SHALL BE
11
ELIMINATED, BUT HOWEVER, THAT LAKE TRAIL PARK SHALL
12
BE CONFIGURED AS SHOWN IN TRACT 9, EXHIBIT A.
13
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: CHARLES, THAT'S THE
14
TOP, RIGHT, LAKE PARK, LAKE TRAIL PARK.
15
MR. MCLEMORE: BUT NOT LESS THAN EIGHT --
16
POINT EIGHT FIVE ACRES OF LAND, NOT LESS THAN THREE
17
HUNDRED FEET OF ROAD FRONTAGE.
18
AND PARK FIVE SHALL BE ENLARGED FROM POINT TWO
19
FOUR ACRES TO POINT FOUR FOUR ACRES, AND PARK FOUR
20
SHALL BE ENLARGED FROM POINT TWO TWO ACRES TO POINT
21
FOUR TWO ACRES.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE AGREE WITH EVERYTHING
23
THERE, BUT WE THOUGHT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING THAT WAS
DISCUSSED FOR THE CITY'S BENEFIT, TO GET IT ALL IN
THERE, WAS IN ADDITION TO HAVING POINT EIGHT FIVE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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ACRES BEING THREE HUNDRED FEET OF ROAD FRONTAGE,
2
THERE WERE TWO OTHER REQUIREMENTS.
3
THAT WAS IT WOULD BE CONTIGUOUS TO A RETENTION
4
POND AND IT WOULD BE CONTIGUOUS TO THE TRAIL.
5
THOSE DIMENSIONS WEREN'T GOING TO BE SPECIFIED
6
BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW HOW MUCH WOULD BE LEFT THERE
7
WHEN THE ROAD SCOOTED OVER.
8
SO TO BE
9
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I AGREE WITH THAT,
10
AND I THINK THAT'S EXCELLENT LANGUAGE TO ADD AND I
11
THINK IT HELPS TO CLARIFY EXACTLY WHAT WAS
12
DISCUSSED.
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND IT'S IN OURS.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. WHAT PAGE IS THAT
15
ON?
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND I JUST WANT
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: I'M SORRY. WHAT PAGE IS
18
THAT ON SO WE GET THE RIGHT NUMBERS?
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: DAVE, REMEMBER WE
20
DISCUSSED THE LOCATION OF THAT PARK ABUTTING THE
21
NORTH OF THAT, NORTH UP TO THE DETENTION POND. IN
22
OTHER WORDS, TO MAKE SURE IT DIDN'T SLIDE DOWN TO
23
THE SOUTH.
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S RIGHT.
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AS WELL AS THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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68
1
TOUCHING THE TRAIL.
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WHICH IS 9 IN THE
3
EXHIBITS.
4
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: RIGHT. IT WAS
5
FIXING ITS LOCATION, NOT JUST THE SIZE.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT WAS TO BE
7
ABUTTED TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RETENTION POND.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: CORRECT.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AND RUN THE THREE
10
HUNDRED SOMETHING FOOT OF FRONTAGE, THREE HUNDRED
11
FEET ON THE ROAD, AND ABUT THE TRAIL.
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: CORRECT.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ON THREE SIDES.
14
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: CORRECT. AND THAT
15
WOULD BE WHATEVER SIZE NEEDED TO BE DEVELOPED,
16
WHATEVER THAT IS.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THOSE TWO EXTRA
18
REQUIREMENTS NEED TO GO INTO THE DEFINITION OF
19
TRAIL LAKE OR LAKE TRAIL PARK. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT
20
SECTION ROMAN NUMERAL IV, IV-C
21
MR. MCLEMORE: LET'S SEE. IV-C. THIS IS
22
THE CONFIGURATION WE WERE REALLY LOOKING AT.
23
SCHRIMSHER ALSO AGREES TO CONVEY?
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT.
MR. MCLEMORE: LET'S SEE, IV-C. SAYS THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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69
1
CITY AT LAKE TRAIL PARK . . . THE LADDER --
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE LADDER UP.
3
MR. MCLEMORE: TO OCCUR ON THE
4
CONSTRUCTION OF, ONE, THE RETENTION PONDS TO THE
5
NORTH OF LAKE TRAIL PARK.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT.
7
MR. MCLEMORE: OR, TWO, THE ROAD ADJACENT
8
TO THE WESTERN BOUNDARY OF LAKE TRAIL PARK, OR,
9
THREE, THE UNPAVED PORTION OF THE CROSS SEMINOLE
10
TRAIL ON THE EASTERN BOUNDARY OF LAKE TRAIL PARK.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT DOESN'T HAVE THE
12
FRONTAGE LANGUAGE OR THE SIZE.
13
MR. MCLEMORE: RIGHT.
14
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: DOES IT HAVE IT
15
ELSEWHERE?
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, YES. WELL, IT
17
DOES. LOOK AT THE DEFINITION.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I DON'T UNDERSTAND
19
THAT LETTER OF THE LANGUAGE.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, YOU -- I CAN
21
EXPLAIN, IF YOU WANT. LOOK AT THE -- LOOK AT THE
22
DEFINITION. WHERE IS THAT?
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: DEFINITION IS PAGE
2.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: DEFINITION E.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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COMMISSIONER BLAKE: ALL RIGHT.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ALL RIGHT. THAT'S LAKE
3
TRAIL PARK. WHERE IT SAYS POINT OH EIGHT FIVE AND
4
NOT LESS THAN THREE HUNDRED FEET. THAT WAS
5
ANTHONY'S LANGUAGE, WHICH IS CORRECT, JUST
6
INCOMPLETE.
7
AND THOSE OTHER TWO REQUIREMENTS, THOSE OTHER
8
BUT THOSE OTHER TWO ELEMENTS
TWO ELEMENTS
9
COULD PROBABLY GO INTO THIS DEFINITION.
10
THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES AT WHAT POINT ARE WE
11
PREPARED TO CONVEY LAKE TRAIL PARK. WE ARE NOT
12
PREPARED TO CONVEY IT UNTIL YOU CAN DESCRIBE IT.
13
YOU CAN'T DESCRIBE IT UNTIL THOSE THREE BOUNDARIES
14
ARE FIXED.
15
SO THE LATER OF THOSE THREE BOUNDARIES WOULD
16
BE FIXED IS THE TIME THAT PARK WOULD BE DESCRIBED.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA; OKAY. SO THE MISSING
18
PIECE THAT WE DON'T HAVE IS THE CONTIGUOUS PIECE
19
THAT'S, HOW DID YOU SAY, CONTIGUOUS TO THE POND?
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: POND. I HAVE THAT
21
LANGUAGE IN C, BUT I DIDN'T PUT IT IN THE
22
DEFINITION.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: THERE IT IS. OKAY.
24
MR. MCLEMORE: THE OTHER ELEMENT INVOLVES
25
THE OR LANGUAGE. IT'S NOT OR LANGUAGE; IT'S AND
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
LANGUAGE.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YES.
3
MR. MCLEMORE: THERE WAS TOO MANY OR'S.
4
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YEAH, YOURS SAYS OR,
5
OR. WE NEED TO FINE-TUNE YOUR IV-C.
6
MR. GARGANESE: AT SUCH TIME, ALL THOSE
7
THINGS OCCUR.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S FINE. GUESS WHEN
9
THAT WOULD HAPPEN? THAT WOULD BE WHEN THE LATER OF
10
THE THREE HAPPENS.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT WOULDN'T BE ANY
12
EARLIER THAN THE THREE HAPPENS BEFORE, WHICH IS
13
WHAT YOU HAVE, BUT IT DOESN'T FIX THE LOCATION,
14
WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING, NOT THE WHEN BUT THE
15
LOCATION.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT DOESN'T -- WHICH OF
17
THOSE THREE CAN'T HAPPEN AS FAR AS TO KNOW WHERE
18
THE LOCATION IS?
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WHAT WE ARE SAYING
20
IS THAT THAT --
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE ARE NOT OPPOSED TO
22
GIVING IT TO YOU AS SOON AS IT CAN BE DETERMINED
23
WHERE IT IS.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE APPRECIATE THAT.
25
MICKY, WHAT THIS DOESN'T DO IS IT JUST SIMPLY SAYS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
WHEN THE CONVEYANCE WILL OCCUR. THIS LANGUAGE
2
DOESN'T SAY WHERE THE PROPERTY --
3
IT DOESN'T MAKE THAT FIX WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
4
IT DOESN'T SAY HERE THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY OF LAKE
5
PARK TRAIL OR LAKE TRAIL PARK WILL TOUCH THE
6
SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF THE EXISTING
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. WELL, THE
8
DEFINITION NEEDS TO SAY AND AND AND.
9
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT'S RIGHT.
10
EXACTLY.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND THEN THE TIME OF
12
CONVEYANCE WOULD BE WHEN THE LAST OF THOSE THREE
13
THINGS OCCURS. THAT'S FINE. THE DEFINITION WAS
14
INCOMPLETE. WE CAN FIX THAT.
15
ALL THREE OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS CAN BE IN THE
16
DEFINITION AND THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ARE WE IN
18
AGREEMENT IN TERMS OF THE LANGUAGE BUT IT HAS TO BE
19
COMBINED, OKAY, OR KEEP IT BUT TO REFER TO ANOTHER?
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: JUST PLEASE NOTE WE HAVE
21
POINTED OUT THOSE TWO THINGS.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
23
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: FOR THE RECORD,
24
THE POINTED IT OUT.
25
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. SO WE ARE IN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
AGREEMENT HERE, RIGHT, FOLKS, BOTH HALVES, THE CITY
2
AND SCHRIMSHER, RIGHT?
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S RIGHT.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: SO YOU HAVE -- YOU
6
GOT PARK THREE REMOVED?
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: PARK THREE?
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: RIGHT.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YEAH, WE GOT PARK THREE.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT'S STILL ZERO
11
FIVE?
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NOW ONE FIVE.
13
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: OKAY. YOU GOT THE
14
TRAIL MOVED, RIGHT, SO IT WOULD BE TWO, THREE?
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE HAVE TO USE
16
FRACTIONS.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE
18
ON. THIS HAPPENS ALL THE TIME WHEN WE START
19
GETTING AFTER TEN O'CLOCK.
20
MR. MCLEMORE: NUMBER 7, THE PARK
21
RELOCATION RADIUS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE HAD A GREAT
22
DEAL OF DISCUSSION.
23
THE SCHRIMSHERS DESIRE THAT PARKS FIVE, FOUR
24
AND TWO AND ONE BE ALLOWED TO BE RELOCATED TO A
25
LOCATION IN A FIVE HUNDRED RADIUS RELOCATION SHOWN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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74
1
IN EXHIBIT A, PROVIDED THAT RELOCATION RESULT IN A
2
PARK CONFIGURATION IN THE TOWN CENTER DESIGN
3
THROUGH A BETTER VIEW THAN THAT SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A.
4
THE CITY DESIRES THAT THAT RELOCATION OF PARKS
5
FIVE, FOUR, TWO AND ONE BE ALLOWED TO BE RELOCATED
6
WITH NOT MORE THAN A TWO HUNDRED FIFTY FOOT RADIUS.
7
THE PARTIES AGREE THAT THE RELOCATION OF PARKS
8
TWO AND ONE WILL BE ALLOWED TO RELOCATE TO A
9
LOCATION OF NOT MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY
10
FEET OF THE CURRENT LOCATION OF PARKS AS SHOWN IN
11
EXHIBIT A, PROVIDED THAT RELOCATION RESULTS IN A
12
PARK IN TOWN CENTER DESIGNED EQUAL TO OR BETTER
13
THAN THAT SHOWN IN EXHIBIT A, AND THAT PARKS FIVE
14
AND FOUR SHALL BE RELOCATED AS PROVIDED IN SECTION
15
5 ABOVE.
16
WHAT THAT BASICALLY DOES IT SAYS THAT EXCEPT
17
FOR TWO AND ONE, IT CAN BE TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY
18
FEET IN ANY DIRECTION, BUT PARKS TWO AND ONE HAS
19
SOME SPECIAL CONDITIONS ON IT BECAUSE THEY WERE
20
RELATED TO THE AGREEMENT OF CROSS TRAIL ROAD.
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK IT'S JUST THE
22
OPPOSITE. I THINK THAT'S FOUR AND FIVE. AND TWO
23
AND ONE WERE UP THERE, THEY CAN GO ANY DIRECTION.
FOUR AND FIVE ARE TIED TO THE TRAIL.
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YOU ARE CORRECT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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75
1
MR. MCLEMORE: OKAY. WE CAN FIX THAT.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT'S RIGHT IN HERE.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IN THE MINUTES, IT'S
4
CORRECT.
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: OKAY.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: ANY OTHER POINTS THERE?
7
MR. MAYOR: ARE WE IN AGREEMENT ON THIS?
8
OKAY, BILLBOARDS.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NOW, WE ARE NOT IN
10
AGREEMENT ON THAT.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. CAN'T WIN THEM
12
ALL.
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: JUST SO THAT YOU KNOW,
14
AND I WANTED TO MENTION THIS TO RON TODAY ON THE
15
PARK THING, SOMETHING THAT WASN'T SPECIFICALLY
16
DISCUSSED, AND WE HAD -- GOING TO MELT DOWN HERE,
17
WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S
18
GOING TO BE AN ISSUE, BUT WE HAD A PROVISION THAT
19
HAS SORT OF BEEN HANGING ON THE AGREEMENT, AND AS
20
IT'S BEEN REVISED, HAVING TO DO WITH THE SCHRIMSHER
21
PROPERTY HAVING TO COMPLY WITH THE
THE REMAINDER
22
OF THE TOWN CENTER PROPERTY HAVING TO COMPLY WITH
23
OPEN SPACES AND GREEN SPACES AND THAT SORT OF
24
THING, AND/OR FUTURE PARKS.
25
AS FAR AS WE ARE CONCERNED, DONATING THESE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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76
1
PARKS, GIVING THESE PARKS, DEDICATING THESE PARKS
2
AS REQUIRED IN THIS AGREEMENT IS INTENDED TO GET
3
THESE PARKS AND PUT THEM IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND
4
PROTECT THE SANCTITY OF EVERYTHING, BUT THERE WON'T
5
BE ANY FURTHER OBLIGATION TO CONVEY PARKS TO THE
6
CITY.
7
NOW, THAT DOESN'T RELIEVE US OF THE OBLIGATION
8
TO COMPLY WITH OPEN SPACE AND GREEN SPACE
9
REQUIREMENTS, BUT THERE WON'T BE ANYMORE
10
CONVEYANCES, EXCEPT FOR LIKE RUNWAYS AS IT IS
11
BUILT.
12
AND WE HAD TALKED ABOUT IT BUT WE DIDN'T GET
13
TO IT. BUT WHEN YOU GET TO IT TO FILL IN THE BLANK
14
THAT'S IN THE AGREEMENT, WHEN YOU START THINKING
15
ABOUT THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T TALKED
16
ABOUT THERE.
17
SO WE'D LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO VISIT STAFF ON
18
THAT. WE DON'T THINK IT WILL BE AN ISSUE, BUT
19
PLEASE, WITH REGARD TO PARKS, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
20
WE ALL KNOW THAT THAT WAS COMING.
21
WE ALSO WOULD LIKE CREDIT
IN THE OVERALL
22
TOWN CENTER, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE CREDIT FOR THE
23
GREEN SPACE AND OPEN SPACE REQUIREMENTS FOR THESE
24
PARKS. THAT WOULD BE CREDITED -- CREDITED TO THE
25
CITY OR
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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77
1
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AREN'T WE PAYING
2
FOR THESE PARKS?
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE
4
PARKS.
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THEN YOU DON'T GET
6
CREDIT FOR THEM. WHY DO YOU NEED CREDIT?
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. HOLD ON NOW AND I
8
WILL TELL YOU. BECAUSE THE REASON THAT ALL THESE
9
PARKS STARTED IN THE FIRST PLACE WAS TO MAKE SURE
10
THAT WE HAD THESE LOCATIONS AND THERE WAS
11
CONFIGURATION THAT YOU WANTED, AND THAT THERE WERE
12
PARKS, BECAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS EXACT PARKS FROM THE
13
DEVELOPER OR OPEN SPACES AND GREEN SPACE AND WHAT
14
HAVE YOU.
15
WE ARE GOING TO FIX THESE PARKS, PUT THEM
16
WHERE THEY ARE LIKE IN SAVANNAH AND ELSEWHERE, AND
17
WE ARE GOING TO HAVE ALL THIS HIGH INTENSITY.
18
TO MAKE US SELL THE PARKS, CONVEY THE PARKS,
19
WHATEVER YOU WANT TO SAY NOW, AND THEN IN ADDITION
20
TO THAT, ADD MORE PARKS IN THE FUTURE, IS
21
INCONSISTENT WITH THE IDEA OF INCREASING THIS
22
INTENSITY AND DENSITY AND THAT SORT OF THING.
23
SO WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO HAVE THESE PARKS,
24
PLUS MORE PARKS?
25
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, FROM STAFF'S
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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78
1
PERSPECTIVE, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM SAYING WE WILL
2
NOT REQUIRE ANYMORE PUBLIC PARKS. I HAVE A REAL
3
PROBLEM SAYING THAT THAT ACREAGE WOULD ACCRUE TO,
4
OR GIVE YOU CREDIT FOR OTHER KIND OF -- OF EVERY
5
SITE PLAN THAT COMES ALONG, GREEN SPACE
6
REQUIREMENTS FROM THOSE SITE PLANS AS REQUIRED BY
7
THE CODE.
8
I MEAN, EVERY PLACE I HAVE EVER BEEN, EVERY
9
DEVELOPER ASKS FOR THAT, AND EVERY COMMISSION I
10
HAVE EVER WORKED FOR SAID NO.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: DID THEY HAVE A TOWN
12
CENTER THAT CONVEYED THIS TYPE OF PARK LAND IN
13
ADVANCE?
14
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, THERE WERE CERTAINLY
15
ALL KINDS OF --
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IN ADVANCE.
17
MR. MCLEMORE: THERE'S CERTAINLY ALL KIND
18
OF PROVISIONS FOR PUBLIC PARKS AND THE PARK OWNER
19
AS AN EXACTION ON THE DEVELOPER AS PART OF A
20
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BUT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
21
REQUIREMENTS ON A SPECIFIC SITE PLAN OR THE
22
CONSERVATION AREA, COMMON AREA.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IN THE CITY'S DRAFT OF
24
THE AGREEMENTS, WHAT WAS YOUR - - WHERE WE HAD A
BLANK. THERE WAS A BLANK THAT HAD TO BE FILLED OUT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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79
1
WITH A CAP ON THAT ACREAGE THAT SAID, SHALL NOT
2
EXCEED BLANK ACREAGE.
3
MR. MCLEMORE: WE HAVE IDENTIFIED THE
4
ACREAGE.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YEAH, AND I AGREE.
6
MR. MCLEMORE: IN THIS AGREEMENT, THIS
7
DOCUMENT.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND WITH THOSE ACRES NOW
9
IDENTIFIED, WE DON'T NEED THAT CAP. THEY ARE
10
SPECIFIC ACREAGES.
11
MR. MCLEMORE: AGREED AS FAR AS PUBLIC
12
PARKS ARE CONCERNED. BUT NOW THERE'S REQUIREMENTS
13
ON THE SITE PLANS.
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THIS WOULD BE A GOOD,
15
YOU KNOW, TOPIC TO HAVE VICTOR'S INPUT ON IT
16
BECAUSE JUST AS YOUR DRAWINGS SHOW, THE INTENTION
17
IS TO SET ASIDE YOUR GREEN SPACES AND THINGS RIGHT
18
WHERE YOU WANT THEM AND ALLOW FOR A MORE INTENSE
19
DEVELOPMENT IN THE REMAINDER.
20
OTHERWISE YOU NET THESE LANDS OUT OF THE
21
PROPERTY YOU HAVE, AND THEN YOU ANTICIPATE FURTHER
22
NET TO THAT IN THE FUTURE.
23
I THINK PHILOSOPHICALLY IT GOES ALONG WITH THE
24
COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE WITH REGARD TO
25
PARKING, WHERE WHEN PARKING IS PROVIDED IN THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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80
1
PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAYS AS PART OF THE STREET DESIGN,
2
THAT THAT IS ALLOWED TO BE INCLUDED IN THE
3
CALCULATIONS AS TO HOW MANY PARKING SPACES GO
4
ON-SITE BECAUSE THE --
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THE--
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'LL FINISH THE SENTENCE
7
AND THEN YOU CAN TALK ALL YOU WANT. IT'S RUDE.
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: HE'S OFF THE
9
SUBJECT.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: I UNDERSTAND.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'LL JUST FINISH THE
12
SENTENCE. I HAVE TALKED LESS THAN ALL THE OTHERS,
13
SO LET ME FINISH ONE SENTENCE.
14
IT JUST FOLLOWS IN THE SAME LINE THAT BECAUSE
15
OF THE DESIRE TO MINIMIZE PAVEMENT OR TO NOT PUT
16
EXCESSIVE AMOUNT OF GROUND UNDER ASPHALT, THAT YOU
17
INCLUDE THOSE PARKING SPACES IN THE PUBLIC
18
RIGHT-OF-WAY, EVEN WHEN YOU ARE CALCULATING HOW
19
MANY PARKING SPACES TO PUT ON THE PRIVATE PROPERTY
20
OF THE SITE PLAN.
21
IT'S SIMILAR, I THINK. AND I'VE HEARD VICTOR
22
SAY PRACTICALLY THOSE WORDS, THAT THESE PARKS BEING
23
SET ASIDE IN SUCH MASS ENABLED THE REMAINDER TO BE
DEVELOPED MORE INTENSELY AND NOT TO HAVE, ON TOP OF
THAT, THE USUAL GREEN SPACES REQUIRED OF THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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23
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25
81
1
REMAINDER.
2
THAT'S ALL.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. WE'LL DO THIS, PUT
4
THIS ON THE PARKING LOT, ON THE TABLE, AND WE WILL
5
DISCUSS THIS LATER ON.
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THAT WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE
7
TO ILLUSTRATE.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO, NO. I UNDERSTAND.
9
CREDITS FOR OPEN SPACE. I HAVE ALREADY GOT THAT
10
DOWN.
11
OKAY. BILLBOARDS. NOW WITH BILLBOARDS --
12
MR. MCLEMORE: WHERE ARE WE GOING HERE?
13
COMMISSIONER MILLER: . WHAT ARE YOU TAKING
14
NOTES FOR?
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: AREN'T WE TRYING TO GET
16
THROUGH THESE POINTS?
17
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S MY POINT. ARE YOU
18
RAISING SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE MEETING OR
19
ARE YOU BRINGING IT UP AS A NEW ISSUE?
MAYOR PARTYKA: HE'S BRINGING IT UP AS AN
ISSUE, AS A PARKING LOT ISSUE, FOR FURTHER
DISCUSSION ON IT.
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: OUT OF ORDER.
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WHO IS OUT OF
ORDER?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: THE COMMENTS.
2
MR. MCLEMORE: HE WAS TRYING TO USE IT AS
3
AN EXAMPLE.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHEN YOU GO BACK TO YOUR
5
AGREEMENT AND YOU START FILLING IN THAT BLANK, YOU
6
ARE GOING TO GET TO THE SAME POINT. SO WE WILL
7
JUST -- WE WILL WAIT AND FILL IN THE BLANK. WHEN
8
YOU GET THERE, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT IT THEN.
9
MAYOR PARTYKA: AS FOR THE MINUTES, I
10
THINK THEY ARE ACCURATE. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TRYING
11
TO DO. THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE FURTHER
12
DISCUSSION. THAT'S ALL THIS IS. THEY ARE NO
13
DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE DID ON POINT ONE AND TWO.
14
OKAY. SO WE ARE BACK AGAIN TO NUMBER 8,
15
BILLBOARDS. ALL RIGHT.
16
MR. MCLEMORE: THERE HAS BEEN -- THIS HAS
17
BEEN A VERY CONTENTIOUS ISSUE. I HAVE RAISED IT
18
SEVERAL TIMES.
19
IT'S MY POSITION AND IT WILL REMAIN MY
20
POSITION THAT WE HAVE PUT PROVISIONS OF VALUE IN
21
THIS AGREEMENT IN ORDER TO GET THE VOLUNTARY
22
ELIMINATION OF THE BILLBOARDS, AND NOT ONE OF THEM,
23
BUT TWO OF THEM.
24
AND MY DIRECTION, OR MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE
25
COMMISSION AGAIN IS IF WE DO NOT GET THE REMOVAL OF
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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THEM, THEN THIS AGREEMENT, THE ITEMS OF VALUE THAT
2
WE HAVE ON THE TABLE, NEED TO BE REDUCED BY THE
3
AMOUNT IN CONSIDERATION OF WHAT WAS ON THE TABLE
4
RELATIVE TO THEM BEING ELIMINATED.
5
AND I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THAT AND I ASK
6
THIS COMMISSION TO UPHOLD THAT POSITION.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
8
MCLEOD, DO YOU HAVE A COMMENT?
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, ISN'T THIS
10
OUT OF ORDER? I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO CHECK AND
11
SEE IF THE MINUTES WERE WHAT WE ALL REMEMBERED.
12
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S WHAT I SAID
13
BASICALLY.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. BECAUSE IN
15
THE PAST, ON EACH OF THE OTHER SEVEN ITEMS, WHAT WE
16
GOT INSTEAD OF A LITTLE SPEECH WAS A READING OF
17
WHAT WAS HERE AND FOR US TO EACH BE ABLE TO SAY IF
18
WE --
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE
20
WILL READ.
21
MR. MCLEMORE: THE SCHRIMSHERS ASK THAT
22
THE TWO BILLBOARDS LOCATED ON STATE ROAD 434 TO BE
23
UNAFFECTED BY THE TOWN CENTER AND THEY HAVE NOT
24
AGREED TO THE REMOVAL OF THE BILLBOARDS FOR
25
ADEQUATE COMPENSATION.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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THE CITY DESIRES THE BILLBOARDS TO BE
2
PERMANENTLY REMOVED, AND STATES THAT SCHRIMSHER HAS
3
PREVIOUSLY AGREED TO REMOVE THE TWO BILLBOARDS IN
4
PRIOR NEGOTIATIONS IN WHICH SCHRIMSHER WAS
5
ADEQUATELY COMPENSATED BUT OFFERED A COMPROMISE IN
6
WHICH SCHRIMSHER WOULD REMOVE THE BILLBOARDS UPON
7
APPLICATION FOR A BUILDING PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT
8
FACILITIES OF ANY TYPE ON THE PARCELS UPON WHICH
9
THE BILLBOARDS ARE LOCATED.
10
AGREEMENT. NO AGREEMENT WAS REACHED ON THIS
11
ISSUE. SCHRIMSHER AGREED TO RENEW THE BILLBOARD
12
ISSUE WITH HIS REPRESENTATIVES AND PROVIDE A
13
RESPONSE TO THE CITY.
14
WE DID NOT GET A RESPONSE FROM THE CITY OTHER
15
THAN THE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH MICKY ON THE
16
TELEPHONE TODAY.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND WE HAD A PROPOSAL IN
18
OUR RESPONSE. IT'S IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF YOUR
19
LAST PAGE. WE WERE DEALING WITH THE TOWN CENTER.
20
WE HAD MADE A PROPOSAL WITH REGARD TO THE BILLBOARD
21
LOCATED WITHIN THE TOWN CENTER.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. BEFORE WE GO ANY
23
FURTHER, COMMISSIONER MCLEOD, FROM YOUR STANDPOINT,
24
IS THIS CORRECT? IS THERE ANY ISSUE THAT YOU WANT
25
TO BRING UP FROM THE CITY'S STANDPOINT OR FROM YOUR
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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85
1
STANDPOINT?
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I HAD HEARD BOTH
3
SIDES OF THAT COMMENT BEFORE. AND BASICALLY WHERE
4
IT ENDED UP WAS -- WITH MR. BLAKE AND MYSELF AND
5
THE CITY MANAGER PUT OUT THERE THAT THE BILLBOARDS
6
WOULD BE REMOVED AND THE -- AT THE TIME THE
7
BUILDING PERMIT CAME IN.
8
THERE WAS STILL A LITTLE BIT OF BICKERING
9
WHETHER THAT COMPENSATED OR NOT. BUT AT THAT TIME,
10
MR. SCHRIMSHER WAS GOING TO GET BACK WITH HIS
11
PEOPLE AND GET BACK TO MR. MCLEMORE THE NEXT DAY SO
12
THAT WE'D HAVE SOME KIND OF CONCLUSION TO THIS
13
THING.
14
HIS CONCERN WAS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PRESENTLY
15
RENTING THOSE BILLBOARDS FROM HIM, WHAT HIS
16
OBLIGATIONS WERE WITH THOSE PEOPLE AT THIS TIME. I
17
THINK THAT'S WHERE IT WAS LEFT.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. IS THAT ALL
19
CORRECT?
20
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YES. WELL, MY CONCERN
21
IS WITH THEM, BUT I WOULDN'T SAY I'M WITHOUT
22
CONCERN FOR MY OWN INTEREST EITHER. SO BOTH
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: WELL, ABSOLUTELY.
24
MR. SCHRIMSHER: SO I MEAN BOTH.
MAYOR PARTYKA: SO AT THIS POINT, THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
SCHRIMSHER GROUP WAS SUPPOSED TO COME BACK WITH A
2
SUGGESTION, AND YOU HAVE THE SUGGESTION ON PAGE 17;
3
IS THAT CORRECT?
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: 18.
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, IT IS 17.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: 17.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: 1 7 . OKAY. SO I GUESS
8
THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT RIGHT NOW. WHAT'S YOUR
9
SUGGESTION HERE?
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, THE CITY'S
11
SUC~ESTION WAS THAT EACH OF THOSE BOARDS GO DOWN,
12
BE REQUIRED TO BE REMOVED AT SUCH TIME AS THE
13
PARCEL UPON WHICH THEY ARE LOCATED OR THE ADJACENT
14
PARCEL WAS DEVELOPED OR A BUILDING PERMIT WAS
15
ISSUED FOR THEM.
16
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE TOWN CENTER. WE ARE
17
NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE CITY WHERE THERE ARE
18
OTHER BILLBOARDS AS WELL. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
19
TOWN CENTER.
20
SCHRIMSHER AGREED WITH REGARD TO THE BILLBOARD
21
WITHIN TOWN CENTER, THAT IT WOULD BE REMOVED AT
22
SUCH TIME AS A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS ISSUED
23
WITHIN TWO HUNDRED FEET FROM THAT BOARD.
24
WHY -- WHY TWO HUNDRED FEET? WELL, BECAUSE WE
25
REALLY WEREN'T SURE WHAT WAS MEANT BY WHAT'S
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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87
1
ADJACENT TO. I MEAN, WAS IT FIFTEEN HUNDRED FEET,
2
WAS IT FIVE HUNDRED FEET, WAS IT DOWN AROUND THE
3
CORNER BY THE OLD OAK TREE.
4
LET'S JUST BE MORE DEFINITIVE. WE THOUGHT A
5
TWO HUNDRED FOOT RADIUS WOULD BE A GOOD TEST.
6
THE OTHER THING WE ENTERED AND INTRODUCED WAS
7
THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY RATHER THAN A BUILDING
8
PERMIT. THERE IS SOME GAP BETWEEN A BUILDING
9
PERMIT AND CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY AND WE THOUGHT
10
IT WOULD BE REASONABLE TO MAINTAIN A BILLBOARD
11
UNTIL SUCH TIME A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY WAS
12
ISSUED. THAT'S ALL.
13
MR. SCHRIMSHER: NOT ALL BUILDING PERMITS
14
ARE BUILT UPON OR ACTUALLY USED. THEY ARE RENEWED
15
AND SOMETIMES THEY ARE ALLOWED TO EXPIRE.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
17
COMMISSIONER GENNELL, DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION?
18
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: COMMENT .
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: YEAH, OR COMMENT.
20
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: SUPPOSE THE
21
PROPERTIES DEVELOP WITH BUILDINGS THAT ARE NOT
22
WITHIN TWO HUNDRED FEET OF THAT BILLBOARD? IT JUST
23
STAYS THERE INDEFINITELY.
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, AND I THOUGHT ABOUT
THAT TODAY. AND AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T -- WE HAVE ONLY
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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88
1
HAD A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT IT - - I MEAN AT SOME
2
POINT IN TIME, IF YOU GO ALONG THIS LINE, YOU PUT A
3
NUMBER OF YEARS WHEN THEY NEED TO BE TAKEN DOWN.
4
THE -- I THINK THAT WOULD BE PRUDENT.
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: JUST TO POINT OUT, WITH
6
ALL DUE RESPECT, THE CITY'S PROPOSAL WHERE YOU HAD
7
THE PROPERTY OR THE FUND WHICH IS LOCATED OR AN
8
ADJACENT PARCEL, WHAT IF NEITHER THE PROPERTY NOR
9
THE ADJACENT PROPERTY WERE EVER DEVELOPED?
10
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THAT'S RIGHT.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT COULD BE PERPETUAL IN
12
THE CITY'S PROPOSAL.
13
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I WAS JUST AS
14
UNHAPPY WITH THE CITY'S.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY, I WASN'T -- I
16
MEAN, THAT'S WHERE WE WERE GOING WITH THAT LINE OF
17
REASONING. IT WASN'T LIKE WE DECIDED TO BE
18
PERPETUAL AND, YOU KNOW, AND Y'ALL HADN'T, SO
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER: ALSO, IF THIS THING
20
INDEED DEVELOPS AS IT IS ANTICIPATED, AS SOON AS IT
21
IS ANTICIPATED, AS DENSELY AS IT IS ANTICIPATED,
22
THE BILLBOARDS WILL GET RUN OFF.
23
THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT IS PROPOSED IS
GOING TO NOT BE ABLE TO -- WILL NOT HAVE TWO
HUNDRED FOOT GAPS IN IT, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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89
1
PICTURES.
2
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IF CONSIDERABLE TIME
3
PASSES AND NOTHING GETS BUILT IN THE NEAR VICINITY,
4
ALL THE MORE REASON, YOU KNOW, WHY SHOULD THE
5
BILLBOARD BE TAKEN DOWN.
6
IT'S REALLY NOT CONFLICTING WITH THE TOWN
7
CENTER IF NO BUILDINGS GET BUILT.
8
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. MAYOR, DO I
9
STILL HAVE THE FLOOR?
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: YOU STILL HAVE THE FLOOR,
11
YEAH.
12
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: WELL, I JUST WANT
13
SOMETHING VERY DEFINITIVE IN THERE TO GET THE
14
BILLBOARDS DOWN WITH NO LOOPHOLES IN IT.
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
16
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I'M JUST NOT
17
WILLING TO LEAVE THEM PERPETUALLY.
18
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, MY ISSUE IN WORKING
19
OUT SOME TIMING IS NOT NEARLY AS INTENSE AN ISSUE
20
TO ME THAN THE FACT THAT THIS INVOLVES TWO
21
BILLBOARDS HERE.
22
I NEED TO TELL YOU AGAIN WHAT WAS PUT ON THE
23
TABLE RELATIVE TO POSITIONS. NUMBER ONE WAS MOVING
24
THE LENGTH OF ROAD THAT THE CITY WAS WILLING TO
BUILD -- THE REASON THE CITY WANTED TO LOWER
WE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
WERE PROPOSING THE LOWER ROUTE ALONG THIS ROUTE
2
HERE, AND THE SCHRIMSHER PEOPLE SAID WE WOULD
3
RATHER HAVE THIS ROUTE UP HERE WHICH INVOLVES
4
SUBSTANTIAL MORE LENGTH AND COST, ROUGHLY THREE
5
HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS WORTH.
6
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: TO THE CITY?
7
MR. MCLEMORE: TO THE CITY, YEAH. NOW,
8
SO WE AGREED THAT THAT WAS MORE IMPORTANT. MORE
9
IMPORTANCE IS THAT ON THE LAST DAY WHEN WE CAME
10
BACK TO THIS COMMISSION, THERE WAS ONE ISSUE STILL
11
ON THE TABLE THAT WAS DIVIDING US, AND THAT ISSUE
12
WAS ON OUR RIGHT TO RECOVER OUR UTILITY COSTS BASED
13
ON A CONNECTION FEE.
14
NOW, THAT'S -- THAT'S A COUPLE MILLION
15
DOLLARS, PEOPLE, THAT WE AGREED NOT TO RECOVER IN
16
ORDER TO CLOSE THIS THING OFF AND STOP IT AND GET
17
IT OVER WITH.
18
AND I POINTED OUT TO YOU IN THAT MEETING WHERE
19
I CAME TO YOU HERE TO LINE ALL THESE ISSUES UP. I
20
ASKED IT TO BE PUT IN THE AGREEMENT. THE CITY
21
ATTORNEY, FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT DIDN'T GET IN THE
22
AGREEMENT.
23
I THINK HE REMEMBERS OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT
24
THAT. THERE WERE PROBABLY A LOT OF THINGS THAT
25
DIDN'T GET IN THERE. THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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91
1
GOING ON.
2
BUT THAT IS A HUGE CONCESSION AND THIS
3
COMMISSION SHOULDN'T ACCEPT ANYTHING OTHER THAN
4
UNLESS YOU TAKE THOSE CONCESSIONS OUT OF THE FINAL
5
DEAL.
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH
7
FOR YOU TO GIVE US THAT MUCH FOR THOSE BILLBOARDS.
8
I RECOMMEND YOU NOT DO THAT. I THINK THAT IS AN
9
ABSURD THING TO LINK.
10
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, YOU MAY FEEL IT'S
11
ABSURD, BUT THE POINT OF IT WAS
12
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'LL TAKE THE MONEY.
13
MR. MCLEMORE: WE ARE TRYING TO PROTECT
14
THE TAXPAYERS. WE WANT TO GET THE BILLBOARDS DOWN
15
SO YOU IN A FUTURE TIME WHEN YOU ENACT AN
16
ORDINANCE, DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT AND PAY AGAIN TO
17
GET RID OF THESE BILLBOARDS IF YOU WANT TO GET RID
18
OF THEM.
19
SO WE THREW IN A DEAL -- AND THERE ARE A LOT
20
OF THINGS YOU CONCEDE TO IN THE END TO TRY TO GET
21
TO THE ENDING POINT, BUT THERE'S A LOT IN THIS
22
AGREEMENT TO ADDRESS THOSE BILLBOARDS AND IT'S
23
SILLY TO ME THAT WE ARE STANDING HERE TALKING ABOUT
THIS AT THIS POINT IN TIME BASED ON WHAT WE
CONCEDED TO GET ALL OF THIS OVER WITH.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
I'M JUST, I'M AMAZED. I'M ABSOLUTELY AMAZED.
2
VICE MAYOR GENNELL: MR. MAYOR.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: I'M ALSO AMAZED. OKAY.
4
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. MAYOR.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER GENNELL.
6
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. MCLEMORE, WHAT
7
YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY NEGOTIATED
8
AND THEY HAVE AGREED TO REMOVE THEIR BILLBOARDS IN
9
EXCHANGE FOR SOME INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS A
10
LONG TIME AGO; IS THAT CORRECT.
11
MR. MCLEMORE: I'M SAYING TO YOU THAT
12
THAT IS THE WAY I REMEMBER IT AND THOSE ARE THE
13
SPECIFIC INTENTIONS THAT I HAD IN MY NEGOTIATIONS.
14
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: SO WE DON'T GO
15
AROUND GIVING AWAY THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS
16
OF INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS UNLESS WE GET
17.
SOMETHING FOR IT?
18
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S THE POINT.
19
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AND WE DID PUT
20
THAT IN?
21
MR. MCLEMORE: THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.
22
IT'S A LOT LARGER THAN THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND
23
DOLLARS IN TERMS OF OUR BUILDING RECOVERY OF COSTS,
24
WHAT YOU ARE PUTTING INTO THIS.
25
BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF CONSIDERATIONS TO ALL
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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OF THAT, AND THE FORM IS GETTING TO THAT KIND OF A
2
POINT AND GETTING THIS OVER WITH.
3
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE I'M AT, PEOPLE. I
4
WILL NOT CHANGE ON THAT. IT'S OBVIOUSLY YOUR
5
DECISION TO MAKE, BUT I FEEL TOTALLY COMPETENT IN
6
MY POSITION ON THIS, AND YOU WILL JUST HAVE TO FIND
7
A WAY TO GET THERE.
8
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I THINK THE
9
COMMISSIONERS HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN A LONG TIME AGO
10
IN REGARDS TO BILLBOARDS. I MEAN
11
MR. MCLEMORE: AND THEY ARE NOT EVEN
12
PROVIDED FOR. YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE -- THE INTENT OF
13
THE CITY HAS BEEN GET RID OF THE BILLBOARDS EVER
14
SINCE WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THE 434 CORRIDOR.
15
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. MAYOR.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
17
MCLEOD.
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MR. MAYOR, I THINK
19
IT WOULD MAYBE MAKE SENSE AT THIS TIME, WHILE IT'S
20
FRESH IN EVERYBODY'S MIND, THAT YOU POLL THE REST
21
OF THE COMMISSIONERS MAYBE TO SEE HOW THEY FEEL ON
22
ANY ONE ITEM OR ANY OF THE ITEMS AS THEY ARE,
23
WHETHER THEY WOULD BE IN AGREEMENT OR MAYBE NOT IN
24
AGREEMENT TO THE ISSUES, OR IF THEY FEEL SOMETHING
25
ELSE SHOULD BE ADDED.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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94
1
I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO DO THAT.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. I HAVE BEEN NOTING
3
EVERYTHING. REALLY EVERYBODY HAS AGREED TO
4
EVERYTHING, BUT I'LL --
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I DON'T KNOW THAT
6
ALL COMMISSIONERS HAVE SAID, HEY, FROM 1 TO 7, I
7
AGREE.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I AGREE WITH WHAT
9
THE COMMISSIONER IS SAYING.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WHICH IS BASICALLY
12
IT'S BEEN THAT HE AND I AND THE SCHRIMSHERS AND
13
SThFF DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT WHAT'S ON PAPER IS
14
WHAT WE AGREED TO THERE.
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ARE THERE ANY
16
ISSUES THAT -- I WILL JUST GO FROM LEFT TO RIGHT.
17
ARE THERE ANY ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE CHANGED OR
18
DISAGREED TO FROM THESE MINUTES OR THESE COMMENTS
19
THAT WERE MADE?
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OR CLARIFIED.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: OR CLARIFIED.
22
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: MAY I ASK A
23
QUESTION?
MAYOR PARTYKA: YOU WANT TO ASK A
QUESTION NOW?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: YES.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
3
MARTINEZ.
4
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: CITY MANAGER,
5
AREN'T THOSE SIGNS IN VIOLATION OF THE 434 CORRIDOR
6
ORDINANCE?
7
MR. MCLEMORE: IT WAS CERTAINLY THE
8
INTENT. I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. THERE WAS A LOT
9
OF DISCUSSION WHEN WE WERE DEVELOPING THAT AND WE
10
WERE GOING TO COME BACK TO, AS I RECALL, TO
11
DEVELOPING SPECIFIC SIGN LANGUAGE, BILLBOARD
12
LANGUAGE, AND I DON'T THINK WE EVER GOT TO IT, TO
13
BE HONEST WITH YOU.
14
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: OKAY.
15
MR. MCLEMORE: BUT THEY ARE PROHIBITIVE
16
WITHIN THE TOWN CENTER. MY POINT WAS TO TRY TO PUT
17
YOU IN A POSITION WHERE YOU'D ANSWER LATER.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. WE WILL GET TO
19
THAT POINT. ALL RIGHT. COMMISSIONER MILLER, ANY
20
POINTS AT ALL?
21
COMMISSIONER MILLER: NO. I THINK THEY
22
ARE ALL VERY GOOD.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
24
BLAKE?
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NO.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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96
1
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
2
MARTINEZ?
3
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: I'M IN AGREEMENT
4
WITH ALL, INCLUDING THE SIGNS OFF THE ROAD.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER GENNELL?
6
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I THINK THE FIRST,
7
THE FIRST SEVEN ARE SATISFACTORY WITH THE
8
ADJUSTMENTS THAT THEY MADE. AND NUMBER 8, WE JUST
9
WON'T HAVE BILLBOARDS.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
11
MCLEOD?
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I'M IN AGREEMENT
13
WITH 1 TO 7. AND 8, I REALLY FELT THAT
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER WAS GOING TO CHECK WITH HIS
15
PEOPLE AND COME BACK AND GIVE US A DATE THAT SAYS
16
THAT HE COULD MOVE OUT THOSE' BILLBOARDS, YOU KNOW.
17
AND I DON'T -- I DON'T AGREE WITH THE LANGUAGE
18
AT THE PRESENT TIME ON 17 AS FAR AS THE BILLBOARDS
19
AND THE DISTANCE, THAT DISTANCE, NOR WITH THE
20
OCCUPANCY.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: BECAUSE THAT MEANS
23
THE BUILDING MUST BE BUILT. IT'S NOT BUILT WHERE
24
THE BILLBOARD IS. IT MUST BE BUILT. SO THE
BILLBOARD IS STILL STANDING THERE IF YOU ARE GOING
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
TO BE ABLE TO GIVE OCCUPANCY TO THE BUILDING.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. LET'S FINALIZE
3
THIS. ALL RIGHT. THE FIRST SEVEN ISSUES,
4
BASICALLY WE ARE IN AGREEMENT. THERE WAS A COUPLE
5
OF ITEMS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP THAT WE HAVE TO
6
HANDLE AT WHATEVER APPROPRIATE TIME.
7
AND THE ONLY OTHER MAJOR ISSUE, THE BILLBOARD
8
ISSUE, IS STILL NOT RESOLVED. OKAY. SO WE HAVE
9
ONE MAJOR ISSUE AND A COUPLE MINOR POINTS.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WITH REGARD TO THE
11
MINUTES, YOU ARE CORRECT.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES. OKAY.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WERE THOSE MINOR
14
POINTS, THOUGH, THE POINTS YOU WANT TO TAKE UP WITH
15
STAFF?
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
17
BEST WAY TO HANDLE THAT. ONE OF THEM WAS, ON
18
NUMBER 2, THERE WAS A SETBACK LANGUAGE.
19
ON NUMBER 3, THERE WAS THE LANGUAGE ON THE
20
EASEMENT, OKAY.
21
AND NUMBER 4, THERE WAS THE LANGUAGE OF NEW
22
WALL WIDTHS, OKAY, AND THAT MIGHT BE A MOOT POINT.
23
AND THEN NUMBER 7, THERE WAS THE ISSUE ON
24
CREDITS FOR OPEN SPACE.
25
AM I RIGHT ON THOSE?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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98
1
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHICH YOU REALLY WON'T
2
GET INTO UNTIL YOU GET -- TRY TO FILL IN THE BLANK.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT I S RIGHT.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND WHEN YOU GET THERE,
5
YOU ARE GOING TO SAY, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH
6
THIS.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: AGAIN, THERE I S FOUR
8
ISSUES. SO HOW ARE WE GOING TO HANDLE THIS?
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I THINK WE SOLVED THE
10
SETBACK ISSUE.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THAT I S FINE.
12
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IT'S THE BUFFER.
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: RIGHT. OKAY.
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: BUFFER LINE.
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. HOW ABOUT THE
16
EASEMENT ISSUE ON NUMBER 3?
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THERE'S NO DISAGREEMENT
18
ABOUT IT.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO DISAGREEMENT, BUT
20
AGAIN, JUST TO MAKE SURE THE LANGUAGE IS THERE,
21
OKAY.
22
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: JUST TO CLARIFY THE
23
POINT.
24
MAYOR PARTYKA: YEAH, OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
25
THE NEW WALL ORDINANCE IS A MOOT POINT UNTIL WE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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99
1
HAVE A NEW WALL ORDINANCE, BUT THAT ISSUE MAY COME
2
UP IN TERMS OF WHAT YOUR INTENT IS.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YOU EITHER AGREE TO WHAT
4
WE AGREED TO OR YOU DON'T.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT'S RIGHT.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I MEAN EITHER -- YOU
7
KNOW, WE HAVE THE SAME KIND OF THOUGHT.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MAY I SAY
10
SOMETHING, MAYOR?
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OUR CONSULTANT WAS
13
THERE AND SPOKE ABOUT THE WALLS AND THE NECESSITY
14
AND THE NON-NECESSITY IN A TOWN CENTER, OKAY.
15
SO, I MEAN, IT WASN'T THAT I DECIDED TO TAKE
16
WALLS OUT OF THE TOWN CENTER. I HAD THE INPUT OF
17
OUR CONSULTANT, AND SO DID MR. BLAKE, ABOUT THE
18
WAIJLS AND THE NECESSITY WITH INSIDE THE TOWN CENTER
19
OF THOSE WALLS, HOWEVER WALLS COULD BE PUT IN IF
20
THE DEVELOPER ASKED TO AND THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE.
21
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND ON THAT POINT,
22
IF I MAY, MR. MAYOR?
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I BELIEVE, ANTHONY,
25
THAT EVEN IF WE PASSED THIS NEW WALL ORDINANCE,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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100
1
THAT THE TOWN CENTER ZONING CODE WOULD SUPERSEDE
2
THAT ORDINANCE, WOULD IT NOT? AND THE TOWN CENTER
3
CODE ALREADY SPECIFICALLY PROVIDES FOR THE
4
EXISTENCE, NOT THE REQUIREMENT, OF THE INTERNAL
5
WALLS.
6
THERE'S LANGUAGE IN THE TOWN CENTER CODE THAT
7
SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSES ORDINANCES IN OTHER AREAS
8
AND WHICH ONE TAKES PRECEDENT.
9
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S INCONSISTENT.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: LET ME JUST READ FOR YOU
11
THE HEADING OF TONIGHT'S AGENDA, AND I'LL SKIP TO
12
THE OTHER PART, SKIP TO THE MAIN PART.
13
A WAIVER OF THE WALL REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE
14
TOWN CENTER DISTRICT MAY BE APPROVED AS A SPECIAL
15
EXCEPTION.
16
I MEAN, WE -- WE AREN'T -- WE DON'T WANT TO
17
SEEK A WAIVER AND HAVE IT REMOVED. WE WANTED IT TO
18
BE PERMITTED, LIKE DOVER WAS SAYING, BUT NOT
19
REQUIRED. THAT WAS THE WHOLE IDEA.
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: OKAY. I WOULD AGREE
21
WITH YOU BASED ON THAT READING, THAT WE NEED TO
22
VISIT THAT, BUT I THINK WE ARE IN AGREEMENT, AT
23
LEAST I THINK THAT THE FOUR OF US OR SIX OF US THAT
24
WERE IN THAT MEETING --
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I UNDERSTAND.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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101
1
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: -- ARE PROBABLY IN
2
AGREEMENT.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I AGREE.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IS
5
FINE. I THINK EVERYBODY IS IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT.
6
THE ONLY QUESTION IS HOW DOES THE NEW WALL
7
ORDINANCE PLAY IN THIS.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT'S NOT THE
9
ORDINANCE. IT'S THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE WITHIN THE
10
ORDINANCE THAT ADDRESSES THE TOWN CENTER.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: RIGHT. OKAY. ON THE
12
PERIMETER, WE UNDERSTAND.
13
OKAY. AND THEN THE LAST ONE THAT THEY HAD ANY
14
QUESTIONS AT ALL IS THIS ISSUE ON CREDITS FOR OPEN
15
SPACE, OR THE PARK SPACE.
16
OKAY. SO WE HAVE -- THE GOOD NEWS IS WE HAVE
17
HANDLED A LOT OF ISSUES. EVERYTHING IS FOR THE
18
MOST PART HANDLED. WE HAVE GOT TWO ISSUES TO
19
HANDLE, DEPENDING ON THE FEEL OF THIS, IS THE
20
BILLBOARD ISSUE AND THESE CREDITS, AND MAYBE THEY
21
ARE NOT AS BIG AS THAT WE CAN'T RESOLVE BOTH
22
OF THESE.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU
24
START THINKING ABOUT HOW TO FILL IN YOUR BLANK, YOU
WILL HAVE SOME IDEAS THAT MAYBE WE CAN WORK WITH.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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102
1
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THE QUESTION IS
2
WHAT DO WE DO NEXT. DO WE TALK ABOUT IT SOME MORE?
3
DO WE POST POSTPONE IT FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION
4
AMONGST THE TWO GROUPS? YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE DO?
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD, YOU HAVE THE LIGHT.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. NO. I MEAN,
7
I --
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: MAY I MAKE A
9
SUGGESTIONS?
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: SURE.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I MEAN, I THINK
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD SEES NOW THAT THERE WAS A LOT
13
LESS AT ISSUE OVER THOSE MINUTES THAN HE FELT WHEN
14
WE STARTED THROUGH THAT DISCUSSION.
15
IF WE COULD -- WE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS. IF
16
WE COULD
17
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I THOUGHT THE
18
MINUTES COULD HAVE BEEN A FIVE-MINUTE DEAL MYSELF.
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, AND HOPEFULLY YOU
20
WERE PLEASED TO SEE THE PROGRESS THAT WAS MADE ON
21
THAT.
22
AND WE WILL JUST GET WITH STAFF BETWEEN NOW
23
AND THE 24TH WHEN YOU INTEND TO DO THE FOURTH
24
READING OF THIS THING, OR THE THIRD, WHATEVER YOU
25
DO. HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE NAILED IT DOWN BY THEN.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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103
1
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: HERE'S THE THING. IF WE
3
CAN'T, IF WE CAN'T GET AN AGREEMENT, THEN WE ARE
4
WE ARE GOING TO HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO CONTINUE TO
5
CONTEST THE ORDINANCE.
6
IF WE CONTEST THE ORDINANCE, WE ARE GOING TO
7
END UP, INSTEAD OF HAVING AN AMICABLE MEETING WITH
8
THE CITY MANAGER AND ANTHONY, WE WILL END UP DOING
9
SOME SORT OF DISCOVERY PROCESS.
10
WE HAVE ALL COME TOO FAR TO HAVE TO GO
11
THROUGH THAT MESS. SO LET'S JUST KEEP IT UP.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
13
GENNELL.
14
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I THINK WE CAN
15
RESOLVE THE BILLBOARD AND THE GREEN SPACE ISSUES
16
THIS EVENING. I THINK WE CAN.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
18
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
19
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: I JUST WANTED TO
20
ASK MR. GRINDSTAFF IF HE AGREES WITH ME IN MY
21
EARLIER STATEMENT, IN THE VERY SAME WAY WE WENT
22
THROUGH THIS EXERCISE BEFORE, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN
23
DONE ON THE 30TH AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE SPENT TWO
24
HOURS HERE DISCUSSING THE SAME ISSUES.
25
WOULD YOU AGREE, THE SAME THING WE ARE DOING
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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104
1
HERE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE ON THE 30TH?
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, SIR, IT COULDN'T
3
HAVE.
4
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: NO?
5
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, SIR, IT COULD NOT
6
HAVE BEEN DONE ON THE 30TH WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF
7
GETTING TOGETHER WITH THE STAFF, VICTOR DOVER,
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE AND COMMISSION MCLEOD.
9
YOU ARE FLAT WRONG. IT COULD NOT HAVE
10
BEEN DONE ON THE 30TH.
11
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: THEY WERE ALL
12
THERE.
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN
14
DONE. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?
15
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: NO.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OTHER
17
THOUGHTS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS? WHAT DO WE DO?
18
I MEAN, EITHER WE CONTINUE THIS ON AND THEN WE
19
WILL HAVE TO GET AN EXTENSION BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME
20
OTHER ITEMS, OR WE CONTINUE THIS TO ANOTHER DAY IN
21
TERMS OF THE MEETING IF WE DON'T WANT TO EXTEND
22
THIS PAST ELEVEN O'CLOCK, OR DO WE ALLOW THE STAFF
23
TO CONTINUE WITH DISCUSSION ON THESE LAST TWO
24
ISSUES?
25
COMMISSIONER GENNELL SAYS LET'S HANDLE THIS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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105
1
TODAY OR NOW. SO LET'S JUST POLL EVERYBODY, I
2
GUESS.
3
COMMISSIONER BLAKE?
4
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL-
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: CAN I ADD
6
SOMETHING TO MY COMMENT JUST FOR A SECOND, JUST ONE
7
SECOND?
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
9
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I JUST WANTED TO
10
SAY I DID SAY I THINK WE CAN SETTLE IT TONIGHT.
11
AND THE REASON I'M SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE THESE
12
ARE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN COMING TO US AND I DON'T
13
THINK THAT THEY ARE STAFF ISSUES.
14
THAT'S THE REASON I SAY THAT WE SHOULD SETTLE
15
IT TONIGHT.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
17
BLAKE.
18
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: MR. MAYOR, POINT
19
OF ORDER?
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
21
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: I SILL REMIND YOU
22
THAT WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE WAITING TO MAKE A
23
PRESENTATION. IF WE INTEND TO ADJOURN, I THINK IT
24
WOULD BE NICE TO LET THEM GO.
MAYOR PARTYKA: WE ARE NOT ADJOURNING AT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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106
1
ALL.
2
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: BUT YOU SAID --
3
YOU MENTIONED THAT --
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO. THIS COMMISSION -- I
5
SAID IT'S A QUARTER OF 11:00. YOU HAVE TO MAKE A
6
VOTE TO EXTEND THIS.
7
BUT WE STILL HAVE TO RESOLVE THIS PIECE RIGHT
8
HERE FIRST, HOW DO WE HANDLE THIS NEXT PIECE.
9
I'M LOOKING -- I'M LOOKING FOR GUIDANCE FROM
10
THE COMMISSION. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO?
11
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: COMMISSIONER
12
GENNELL SAID WE CAN RESOLVE THIS. LET HER TAKE THE
13
LEAD.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
15
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: WELL, ISN'T
16
THAT --
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: JUST A MINUTE. WHEN I
18
RECOGNIZE YOU -- I'M DOWN HERE TRYING TO POLL THE
19
COMMISSION SO I CAN GET SOME OPINIONS.
20
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: I THOUGHT YOU
21
WERE GENERALIZED ASKING A QUESTION.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO. WE
23
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: OKAY. GO AHEAD.
24
DO YOUR POLL.
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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107
1
MILLER, THOUGHTS?
2
COMMISSIONER MILLER: FRANKLY, MR. MAYOR,
3
WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR TWO OR THREE
4
YEARS NOW. I THINK WE ARE PROBABLY THAT CLOSE.
5
I WOULD LIKE TO JUST CALL A PIZZA PLACE, LET'S
6
ORDER IN PIZZA, AND I'D JUST LIKE TO STAY HERE
7
UNTIL TOMORROW NIGHT IF WE HAVE TO. I JUST WANT TO
8
FINISH THIS.
9
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
10
COMMISSIONER MILLER: I HAVE BEEN SITTING
11
HERE FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS. I THINK
12
WE NEED TO FINISH IT. THAT WAS WHY -- AT LEAST I
13
THOUGHT WHEN WE ALL SAT HERE LAST -- TWO WEEKS AGO
14
AND THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF ACCUSATIONS AND COUNTER
15
ACCUSATION MADE ABOUT, WELL, YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO DO
16
THIS, YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO DO THAT, THAT WE AGREED
17
THAT THERE WOULD BE A MEETING THAT WOULD TAKE PLACE
18
HERE IN THE CITY HALL WITH TWO COMMISSIONERS AND
19
ANYBODY ELSE THAT WANTED TO ATTEND. AND THOSE
20
MEETINGS WENT ON FOR HOURS.
21
AND I THINK AT THAT MEETING, I BELIEVE
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD INDICATED AT THAT POINT HE'D BE
23
WILLING TO STAY THERE UNTIL MIDNIGHT, 4:00 OR 5:00
24
IN THE MORNING ALSO TO RESOLVE THIS.
25
AND HERE WE ARE AGAIN SITTING HERE TONIGHT AND
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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108
1
WE HAVE JUST ALLOCATED THREE HOURS, TWO AND A HALF
2
HOURS ANYWAY TO THIS ISSUE.
3
I'M AT THE POINT NOW WHERE I'M WILLING TO SIT
4
HERE UNTIL TOMORROW NIGHT RIGHT NOW. I WILL CALL
5
MY WIFE, HAVE SLEEPING BAGS BROUGHT IN.
6
I THINK WHEN WE LEAVE THIS ROOM, WE NEED TO
7
FINISH THIS.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, GOOD.
9
COMMISSIONER MILLER: WE HAVE THE TRAIL
10
COMING UP. ALL THESE OTHER THINGS ARE HANGING ON
11
THIS, AND WE ARE EITHER GOING TO DO THIS OR NOT.
12
I'M IN FAVOR OF DOING IT AND I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE
13
UNTIL WE DO IT.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
15
COMMISSIONER MILLER: I THINK WE OUGHT TO
16
EXCUSE THE OTHER FOLKS HERE, TELL THEM THERE'S NO
17
OTHER AGENDA EXCEPT THIS ONE, AND LET'S JUST FINISH
18
IT.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
20
BLAKE.
21
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I DON'T THINK
22
THERE'S ANY QUESTION IN ANYBODY'S MINDS, WHETHER IT
23
BE SOMEBODY ON THE COMMISSION, MEMBER OF STAFF OR
24
THE FOLKS FROM THE SCHRIMSHER ORGANIZATION -- I
25
THINK EVERYBODY WOULD PROBABLY LIKE TO PUT THIS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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109
1
THING TO BED.
2
THERE ARE, HOWEVER, CERTAIN SUBSTANTIAL ISSUES
3
THAT STILL EXIST. I WILL TELL YOU THAT THE MEETING
4
THAT WE HAD LAST WEEK, I THOUGHT WAS A VERY
5
POSITIVE MEETING.
6
I THOUGHT WE CAME TOGETHER ON SOME DIFFERENCES
7
THAT WE HAD HAD PREVIOUSLY AND WE FOUND A WAY TO
8
FIND SOME COMMON GROUND TO GET US TO THE END.
9
THE FURTHER INTO NEGOTIATIONS WE GET, THE
10
TOUGHER THE SMALLER ISSUES TEND TO GET, AND YOU
11
FIND YOURSELF IN STICKY POINTS WHERE NOBODY IS
12
WILLING TO BUDGE AND THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.
13
MR. SCHRIMSHER, I WILL TELL YOU THAT I BELIEVE
14
THAT THE POSITION OF THE COMMISSION IS FLAT OUT
15
THAT THE BILLBOARDS HAVE TO GO. AND I MAY BE
16
SPEAKING OUT OF TURN, BUT I DON'T THINK SO. THE
17
MAYOR CAN CERTAINLY ASK THE OTHERS.
18
THAT LEAVES US WITH A PROBLEM, BECAUSE I THINK
19
YOUR POSITION MAY BE SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT THAN THAT
20
STILL.
21
AND THE QUESTION IS IF OUR POSITION IS FLAT
22
OUT THEY HAVE GOT TO GO AND YOURS IS THEY HAVE TO
23
STAY, OR AT LEAST ONE OF THEM HAS TO STAY, THEN WE
24
EITHER HAVE TO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT TO
25
GET US TO THE END OR ONE OF US IS GOING TO HAVE TO
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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110
1
GIVE IN SOMEHOW.
2
AND TO BE VERY HONEST WITH YOU -- AND I HAVE
3
BEEN VERY HONEST WITH YOU THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE
4
PROCESS -- I DON'T SEE THAT ONE CHANGING ON THIS
5
SIDE.
6
SO WHAT I WOULD ASK IS WHAT IDEA DO YOU HAVE
7
WHAT DO YOU NEED FOR US TO HAVE THOSE
THAT
8
BILLBOARDS, HOW CAN WE GET THERE, BECAUSE THE
9
BILLBOARDS IS A BIGGIE. IT HAS BEEN A BIGGIE FOR A
10
LONG TIME. SO HOW DO WE GET THERE.
11
NOW -- OH, HE'S STILL THERE. I THOUGHT HE GOT
12
UP AND LEFT. THAT MUST HAVE BEEN THE LAWYER.
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: HE LEFT.
14
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: HE'S GOING TO
15
CONTEND THAT WE HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR THEM, AND I
16
KNOW THAT YOU WILL AGREE THAT WE HAVE GIVEN AN
17
AWFUL LOT.
18
WE HAVE TRIED TO MEET EVERYONE OF YOUR
19
CONCERNS OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS, AND NOT ALWAYS
20
TO YOUR SATISFACTION. BUT WE HAVE TRIED TO MEET
21
YOUR CONCERNS TO GET THIS PROJECT TO WHERE WE THINK
22
THE COMMUNITY, WHO WE REPRESENT, WANTS TO SEE IT
23
GO.
24
WE AGREE THAT YOU HAVE THE PROPERTY AND
25
CERTAIN RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES TO THE PEOPLE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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WHO YOU REPRESENT ALSO, BUT WE ARE NOW DOWN TO THAT
2
NITTY-GRITTY ITEM THAT WE HAVE TO GET TAKEN CARE
3
OF. HOW CAN WE DO IT.
4
STAYING UNTIL FOUR O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING OR
5
TOMORROW NIGHT LIKE MILLER WANTS TO, I DON'T THINK
6
IS NECESSARILY GOING TO DO IT. WE WILL JUST SIT
7
HERE AND START CALLING EACH OTHER NAMES.
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: CAN I GO FIRST?
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO
10
SPEAK ABOUT THE BILLBOARDS, BUT I THINK YOU ARE IN
11
THE MIDDLE OF POLLING.
12
DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER IT NOW?
13
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, MAYOR, I HAVE
14
THE FLOOR HERE, AND MY QUESTION -- QUITE FRANKLY, I
15
THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION FOR US TO
16
ANSWER BEFORE WE CAN BE EFFECTIVELY POLLED.
17
I'M SORRY. THIS IS BRASS TACKS. THIS IS
18
WHERE WE ARE NOW.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: FOR CLARIFICATION,
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE, IS ONLY THIS. I AGREE WITH YOU
21
THE I$SUE HAS TO BE DISCUSSED, BUT DO WE CONTINUE
22
TONIGHT OR SOME OTHER TIME.
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, WHAT'S THIS
24
COMMISSION'S DIRECTION GOING TO BE TO STAFF?
25
MAYOR PARTYKA: I DON'T KNOW UNTIL WE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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POLL.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, WE ALREADY
3
HAVE IN A SENSE, THOUGH, AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S
4
ANY MYSTERY AS TO WHAT THAT IS.
5
I'M TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF THE ISSUE THAT
6
EXISTS, NOT WHETHER WE STAY UNTIL TOMORROW.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: WELL, THE ISSUE IS RIGHT
8
NOW REAL SIMPLE, DO WE CONTINUE WITH THIS MEETING.
9
I THINK COMMISSIONER MILLER IS VERY CLEAR ON THAT.
10
HE WANTS TO GO FOREVER OR UNTIL WE GET THIS
11
RESOLVED.
12
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AS LONG AS WE NEED.
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: YEAH. BUT I THINK THAT'S
14
ALL IT IS. NOW THE ISSUE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS
15
DIFFERENT. I THINK IT'S REAL SIMPLE, DO YOU WANT
16
TO CONTINUE, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH
17
TONIGHT'S MEETING.
18
THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE AS LONG AS
19
YOU WANT. BUT WE HAVE TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT
20
HERE, DO WE GO ON. SO I THINK THAT'S THE SIMPLE
21
WE NEED AN ANSWER IF YOU WANT TO GO ON TONIGHT
22
OR SOME OTHER TIME.
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I UNDERSTAND THE
24
QUESTION, MAYOR, AND I UNDERSTAND WHY THAT QUESTION
25
NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED, BUT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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THAT OUR ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION MAY AFFECT HOW WE
2
GET THERE. JUST AS SIMPLE AS THAT.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. YOU HAVE STATED
4
YOUR POSITION. YOU STILL HAVE TO VOTE. THEN WE'LL
5
TAKE IT FROM THERE.
6
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I'D SAY LET'S WORK
7
ON THIS ISSUE UNTIL 11:30. AND IF WE CAN'T COME TO
8
A RESOLUTION BY 11:30, THEN WE SIMPLY DON'T COME TO
9
A RESOLUTION.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND WE'LL HAVE TO
12
TAKE A DIFFERENT TACK. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I
13
REALLY BELIEVE BECAUSE SITTING HERE AND HAMMERING
14
OUT THIS VERY BASIC ISSUE, IF WE CAN'T FIND SOME
15
OTHER WAY TO GET THERE, THIS ISN'T THE WAY.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHAT'S THE IMMINENCE
17
HERE? IS THIS BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO LOSE
18
SOMETHING OR BUILD THE TRAIL OVER IN THE WRONG
19
SPOT? I MEAN, WE HAVE HEARD THAT FOURTEEN MONTHS
20
AGO.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: IF I MAY, MR. GRINDSTAFF,
22
WE'LL GET THERE. WE'LL GET TO THIS POINT.
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT'S A GOOD
24
QUESTION.
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT'S MY MOTION, TO
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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STAY NO LATER THAN 11:30.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
3
MARTINEZ.
4
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AS FAR AS THE
5
TIME LIMIT IS CONCERNED, I THINK THE COMMISSION
6
WILL HAVE T0 VOTE OVER IT AND DECIDE HOW LATE WE
7
ARE TO STAY.
8
I SAY THAT WE HAVE BENT OVER BACKWARDS AND WE
9
HAVE WORKED FOR TWO AND HALF YEARS ON THIS PROJECT,
10
AND EVERY TIME WE COME TO THE TABLE, SOMETHING ELSE
11
COMES UP, AND WE GO ON AND ON AND ON, AND WE GO TO
12
THIRD READING AND NOW WE ARE UP TO FOURTH READING
13
AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN IT WILL END.
14
SO I AM IN FAVOR OF CONTINUING TONIGHT TO SEE
15
IF WE CAN COME TO SOME KIND OF A MEETING OF THE
16
MINDS, ALTHOUGH I DOUBT IT, AND LET THE CHIPS FALL
17
WHERE THEY MAY.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
19
MCLEOD.
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I WOULD LIKE TO
21
TAKE A LITTLE RECESS, COME BACK IN HERE AND SIT
22
DOWN AND SEE IF WE CAN'T RESOLVE THE THING.
23
HOWEVER, I DO THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE A
24
REASONABLE TIME FRAME, AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE AN
25
OPEN DISCUSSION TO BASICALLY, ON THESE TWO ISSUES,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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APPARENTLY RIGHT NOW -- AND I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF
2
OTHER ISSUES WITH STAFF, BUT WHAT MR. BLAKE AND I
3
HAD BEEN INSTRUCTED BY THE COMMISSION WAS TO MEET
4
WITH THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS AND RESOLVE THE
5
OUTSTANDING ISSUES.
6
SO WE ARE DOWN TO ONE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF
7
ANOTHER ONE RAISED THIS EVENING. SO I WOULD LIKE
8
TO SEE IF THE PROPERTY OWNER FEELS THAT WE ARE ALL
9
IN A POSITION TO RESOLVE THAT THIS EVENING.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: I GUESS THAT'S TO BE
11
DETERMINED RIGHT NOW. BUT THERE'S A --
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, ARE THEY
13
WILLING TO TRY TO RESOLVE THIS. THAT'S THE
14
QUESTION.
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. BECAUSE THE POLL
16
IS LET'S EXTEND THIS MEETING. I MEAN, BARRING AN
17
OFFICIAL MOTION TO EXTEND THIS AND TALK THIS OUT.
18
AND SO, MR. SCHRIMSHER, MR. GRINDSTAFF?
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'M WILLING TO TALK
20
ABOUT IT. I THINK -- I DON'T THINK IT'S A FAIR
21
CHARACTERIZATION FOR ANYONE TO SAY THAT I HAVE SAID
22
THESE BILLBOARDS MUST STAY HERE FOREVER, THAT I'M,
23
YOU KNOW, NOT WILLING TO NEGOTIATE ON THEM, BECAUSE
24
I HAVE ALREADY OFFERED --
25
ALL THE THINGS THAT I HAVE SUGGESTED OR
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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PROPOSED HAVEN'T BEEN MENTIONED TONIGHT, BUT THERE
2
HAVE BEEN OTHERS BESIDES THE CURRENT ONE THE CITY
3
HAS PROPOSED AND THE CURRENT ONE WE HAVE PROPOSED.
4
SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF POSITIONS BETWEEN
5
THE BILLBOARDS MUST COME DOWN TOMORROW OR THE
6
BILLBOARDS WILL NEVER COME DOWN.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
8
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YEAH, I'M WILLING TO
9
TALK ABOUT THAT. '.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: WELL, THEN I'M LOOKING --
11
I'LL TELL YOU ONE THING. I'LL MAKE A COMMENT. I
12
THOUGHT THE COMMISSIONERS, COMMISSIONER BLAKE,
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD, CITY MANAGER, THE SCHRIMSHERS,
14
I MEAN JUST TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE'VE CLEANED
15
UP ALL THESE THINGS EXCEPT FOR ONE OR ONE AND A
16
HALF ISSUES, WHATEVER IT IS, NO MATTER HOW BIG IT
17
MAY BE, I THINK WE'VE COME A LONG, LONG WAY AND
18
THAT'S A CREDIT TO MR. BLAKE AND MR. MCLEOD AND THE
19
CITY STAFF AND EVERYBODY.
20
SO WE ARE WORKING. WE ARE CLOSE. ALL RIGHT.
21
SO THAT'S THE GOOD NEWS. NOW WE HAVE JUST GOT A
22
COUPLE MORE THINGS.
23
SO I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION TO EXTEND THIS
24
MEETING. WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO AFTER THE MOTION IS
25
TAKE A TEN MINUTE BREAK, PUT SOME WATER ON YOUR
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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FACES AND WHATEVER, WALK AROUND, COME BACK AND
2
LET'S CONTINUE WITH THIS.
3
SO I NEED A MOTION.
4
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: SO MOVED.
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: SECOND.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: POLL THE VOTE, PLEASE.
7
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I THOUGHT WE ALL
8
AGREED THAT WHEN WE MADE A MOTION TO EXTEND, WE
9
WOULD HAVE A DEFINITE TIME IN THERE, SAY LIKE
10
MIDNIGHT, AND THEN AGAIN AT MIDNIGHT WE'D ALL COME
11
BACK AND REDO THAT.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: IT'S IMPLIED IT'S ONE
13
HOUR.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THANK YOU.
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. CALL THE
16
VOTE, PLEASE.
17
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
18
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE.
19
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
20
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
21
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
23
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
25
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: MOTION PASSES. LET'S
3
TAKE A TEN MINUTE BREAK AND THEN COME BACK.
4
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
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22
23
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118
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: I WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS
3
MEETING CALLED BACK FROM RECESS. WE HAVE THREE
4
COMMISSIONERS HERE RIGHT NOW.
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
7
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I WOULD LIKE TO
8
RECOMMEND AT THIS POINT THAT WE MAKE THE
9
DETERMINATION THAT THIS WILL BE THE LAST ITEM
10
DISCUSSED TONIGHT AND RESCHEDULE THE CONTINUATION
11
OF THE MEETING SO THAT THESE OTHER PEOPLE DON'T
12
HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL TWO O'CLOCK BECAUSE WE ARE NOT
13
GOING TO HEAR THEM TONIGHT.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. OKAY. IS THAT A
15
MOTION, COMMISSIONER BLAKE, OR JUST A SUGGESTION?
16
MR. BLAKE: WELL--
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: I ONLY SAY THIS. THERE'S
18
SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT -- I MEAN, SPECIFICALLY THE
19
ECKERD'S PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO GET THIS THING
20
HANDLED TODAY.
21
AND I SUGGESTED TO THEM AS SOON AS WE GET TO
22
SOME KIND OF CONCLUSION ON THIS, THAT THEY WILL
23
COME UP AND WE WILL RESOLVE THEIR ISSUE.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, I CERTAINLY
25
I'M NOT TRYING TO CUT THEM OFF FROM BEING HEARD
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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THIS EVENING IF THEY ARE WILLING TO WAIT, BUT GIVEN
2
OUR EXPERIENCE ON HOW MEETINGS SOMETIMES END,
3
SOMETIMES WITHOUT NOTICE, I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD
4
BE PERHAPS MORE FAIR -- AND EVEN IF WE RESCHEDULE
5
TO OR AGREE TO RECESS ONCE WE FINISH THIS ITEM
6
UNTIL TOMORROW EVENING.
7
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER TWO WEEKS OR AT
8
WORSE NEXT WEEK, NEXT MONDAY.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WOULD IT BE HELPFUL IF
10
WE MR. SCHRIMSHER AND I WERE TO CAUCUS AND
11
YOU GUYS COULD HEAR THE ECKERD'S PEOPLE IN BETWEEN
12
US HERE?
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: IF IT WOULD BE HELPFUL
14
FOR YOU, SIR, IF IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR ALL OF US
15
TO GET DONE, I WOULD AGREE TO THAT.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK THAT MIGHT BE
17
BENEFICIAL. WE WILL HAVE TIME TO KIND OF THINK
18
ABOUT SOME ALTERNATIVES.
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ANY PROBLEM WITH
20
THAT?
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I AGREE.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. LET'S DO IT.
23
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
24
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. I THINK WE HAVE
25
EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM. OKAY. I WILL CALL THIS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
MEETING BACK TO ORDER FROM RECESS.
2
LET THE RECORD SHOW EVERYBODY IS HERE. OKAY.
3
CITY MANAGER, HOW DO YOU WANT TO HANDLE THIS PIECE,
4
OR MR. SCHRIMSHER, HOW WOULD YOU PROPOSE TO --
5
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, I THINK WHERE WE
6
LEFT WAS WE WERE GOING TO SEE IF YOU COULD COME
7
BACK WITH SOME IDEAS ON YOUR PART TO SETTLE THESE
8
TWO ISSUES.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK WE HAVE.
10
MR. SCHRIMSHER HAS GOT SOME IDEAS.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
12
THERE'S TWO PIECES ON THE TABLE, ONE IS THE
13
BILLBOARDS, AND THE OTHER ONE IS THE CREDITS FOR
14
OPEN SPACE OR PUBLIC PARKS, WHICHEVER ORDER YOU
15
WANT.
16
MR. SCHRIMSHER: AS FOR THE GREEN SPACE
17
AND OPEN SPACE, I JUST THINK WE NEED TO TALK WITH
18
STAFF AND MAKE SURE WE ARE NOT JUST HAVING AN
19
UNNECESSARY ARGUMENT OVER A MISUNDERSTANDING OR
20
SOMETHING, MAKE SURE WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE AND
21
HOW FAR APART WE ARE, BECAUSE I'M NOT REALLY CLEAR.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE WERE .JUST TALKING ON
23
BREAK ABOUT WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE TOWN
24
CENTER FOR GREEN SPACE AND OPEN SPACE, AND THEY
25
REALLY AREN'T ARTICULATED CLEARLY. WE THOUGHT --
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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MR. SCHRIMSHER: OR AT LEAST WE ARE JUST
2
NOT SURE RIGHT YET.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND WE THOUGHT -- WHAT
4
WE WERE SUGGESTING IS NOT INCONSISTENT WITH THE
5
GOALS OF THE TOWN CENTER, AND THAT WAS ONCE YOU
6
HAVE THESE OTHER PLACES NAILED DOWN, YOU WANT HIGH
7
INTENSITY AND DENSITIES.
8
AND YOU LOOK AT EVEN THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT,
9
A COPY OF WHICH WE JUST GOT THIS EVENING AND WHICH
10
WILL BE HEARD BY LPA TOMORROW TONIGHT, IT TALKS IN
11
TERMS OF INCREASED DENSITIES UP TO THIRTY-NINE
12
UNITS PER ACRE.
13
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: THIRTY.
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THIRTY-NINE.
15
THIRTY-NINE. AND FLORIDA AREA RATIO IS SIX POINT
16
OH. HEIGHT LIMITATION IS SIXTY-FIVE FEET.
17
I MEAN, THOSE ITEMS ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THE
18
THOUGHT OF DOUBLE YOUR GREEN SPACE AND OPEN SPACE
19
IDEAS. SO WHERE WE WERE GOING WITH THAT, WE DIDN'T
20
THINK THAT WAS INCONSISTENT.
21
I THINK IF YOU ALLOW US TO WORK WITH STAFF AND
22
VICTOR DOVER IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS, WE WILL GET
23
THROUGH THAT.
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: GOOD. NEXT.
25
VICE MAYOR GENNELL: CAN I MAKE A
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
COMMENT?
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: SURE. I LIKE THE
3
THOUGHT.
4
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I DIDN'T
5
ANTICIPATE THERE BEING A DEMAND FOR A LOT OF THE
6
OPEN SPACE THERE MYSELF. IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE
7
THE THINGS DENSE AND CLOSE TOGETHER, THINGS CLOSE
8
TO THE STREETS AND ALL, I DIDN'T THINK THAT IT WAS
9
GOING TO BE THAT BIG AN ISSUE. SO THANK YOU.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE
11
BLANK, PUTTING THE CAPS, WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT
12
ONE. IN ANTHONY'S DRAFT, THERE WAS A PLACE FOR A
13
BLANK.
14
THAT'S WHAT GOT US THINKING ABOUT THAT, BUT WE
15
WILL DEAL WITH IT IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS AND WE ARE
16
VERY OPTIMISTIC THAT WE CAN SOLVE THAT ONE.
17
MR. MCLEMORE: THERE'S NOT A BLANKET
18
PERCENTAGE REQUIREMENT IN THE TOWN CENTER AS THERE
19
ARE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY. I MEAN, I DON'T
20
THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THAT'S A POSITIVE
22
HERE. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE
23
COMMISSIONERS ON THIS ONE?
24
OKAY. NEXT ONE IS THE BILLBOARDS.
25
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OH, THAT LITTLE THING.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THOSE LITTLE THINGS.
2
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OKAY. THIS WILL BE MY
3
KIND OF QUICK HISTORY SUBMISSION. WE HAD QUITE A
4
DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS A COUPLE FEW YEARS AGO
5
BETWEEN THE COMMISSION, MYSELF AND MISSY CASELLS
6
SINCE THERE ARE FOUR BILLBOARDS LEFT IN THE CITY
7
WE HAVE TWO AND SHE HAS TWO.
8
AND AS I UNDERSTAND THE WAY IT WAS LEFT, WHEN
9
DEVELOPMENT FORCES THEM OUT, THEY ARE GONE, BECAUSE
10
WHAT'S HAPPENED IS YOU HAVE CHANGED THE LAW.
11
THEY WERE PUT UP LEGALLY, BUT NOW THEY ARE
12
NON-CONFORMING USES. AND THERE'S A LOT OF EXAMPLES
13
OF THAT THROUGHOUT ANY CITY OR COUNTY WHERE THE
14
RULES CHANGE.
15
AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, SOMETIMES PEOPLE USE
16
WORDS LIKE IT'S GRANDFATHERED, WHATEVER. IT'S
17
THERE. IT'S THERE LEGALLY, BUT NOW IT GETS TO
18
STAY, BUT AT SOME POINT WHEN EITHER IT GETS BLOWN
19
OVER IN A HURRICANE OR BURNS DOWN OR GETS
20
REDEVELOPED, IT'S NOT ALLOWED TO BE PUT BACK
21
BECAUSE IT'S NON-CONFORMING.
22
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE LEFT IT, IS IF AND
23
WHEN A HIGHER AND BETTER USE CAME ALONG OR SOME
24
EVENT OCCURRED THAT CAUSED THAT BILLBOARD TO COME
25
DOWN, IT WASN'T GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO BE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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REPLACED. SO IT WOULD TAKE CARE OF ITSELF OVER A
2
PERIOD OF TIME.
3
OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION
4
ABOUT BILLBOARDS. I MEAN, IT IS OFTEN STATED AS IF
5
IT'S GOSPEL TRUTH THAT, YOU KNOW, BILLBOARDS ARE
6
LIKE UNIVERSALLY HATED OR SOMETHING.
7
I KNOW THERE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE STRONGLY
8
OPPOSED TO BILLBOARDS, BUT I BELIEVE THAT IT'S A
9
MINORITY, JUST A VERY VOCAL ONE.
10
I'M NOT SURE -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN
11
IF YOU TOOK A REFERENDUM THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF
12
WINTER SPRINGS, YOU KNOW, AND GAVE PEOPLE CHOICES
13
ABOUT HOW BILLBOARDS SHOULD BE HANDLED, WHAT THAT
14
WOULD BE.
15
I KNOW SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS HEAR FROM
16
FOLKS. THEY MUST EXPRESS AN OPINION THAT THEY
17
WOULD LIKE THEM TO BE GONE BECAUSE THEY ARE
18
ATTEMPTING TO REPRESENT THOSE FOLKS IN YOUR ELECTED
19
POSITION.
20
ANYWAY, I THINK IT'S INTERESTING OR IMPORTANT
21
TO NOTE THAT OF THE TWO BILLBOARDS, AND WE HAVE
22
FOUR FACES, THAT THREE OF THEM ARE RENTED NOW AND
23
THAT TWO OF THEM ADVERTISE HOUSING SUBDIVISIONS IN
24
THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS AND A THIRD ONE
25
ADVERTISES THE SALE OF HOUSE PLANTS FOR PEOPLE WHO
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE, AND THEN THE FOURTH IS A
2
VACANT SIGN.
3
IT'S NOT ADVERTISING THE LOTTERY OR BUDWEISER
4
OR CLUB JUANA OR -- IN OTHER WORDS, I THINK IF YOU
5
THINK BACK, IT'S PRETTY UNIFORMLY ADVERTISED THINGS
6
THAT ARE A BENEFIT TO THE CITIZENS OF WINTER
7
SPRINGS OR POTENTIAL CITIZENS, AND IT'S NOT TOO BIG
8
A STRETCH TO EVEN IMAGINE THAT THE BILLBOARD THAT
9
CURRENTLY SITS IN THE PROPOSED TOWN CENTER COULD
10
EVEN PROMOTE THE TOWN CENTER ITSELF.
11
AND CURRENTLY, WHAT THE BILLBOARD DOES PROMOTE
12
IS THINGS OF INTEREST TO PEOPLE IN WINTER SPRINGS.
13
I THINK AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS, SOMETHING WOULD
14
HAVE TO LAND RIGHT ON TOP OF IT.
15
IN MY UNDERSTANDING FROM OUR PREVIOUS
16
DISCUSSIONS IS SOMETHING WOULD HAVE TO LAND RIGHT
17
ON TOP OF THE BILLBOARD FOR IT TO HAVE TO GO AWAY.
18
AND I THINK OUR PROPOSAL TO SAY WHEN ANYTHING LANDS
19
WITHIN TWO HUNDRED FEET OF IT IN ANY DIRECTION WAS
20
A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
21
ONE OF THE THINGS I PROPOSED THE OTHER DAY,
22
IN THE MEETING A WEEK AGO, THAT MICHAEL BLAKE AND
23
MR. MCLEOD WERE PRESENT AT -- WHICH WAS NOT WELL
24
RECEIVED BUT I WILL GO AHEAD AND MENTION IT TO THE
25
COMMISSIONERS SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE HAVE BEEN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
OTHER ATTEMPTS.
2
I SUGGESTED THAT WE TAKE -- WE HAVE TWO
3
BILLBOARDS. YOU WANT ZERO. WE TAKE THEM BOTH DOWN
4
AND REPLACE IT WITH ONE AT THE CURVE DOWN THERE BY
5
THE NEW RETENTION POND, THAT THAT WOULD BE A STEP
6
IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
7
BUT THEY -- YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT IN THE TOWN
8
CENTER. IT'S NOT NEAR ANYTHING THAT WOULD REALLY
9
BE HURT BY, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT A BILLBOARD. BUT
10
THAT WAS RESOUNDINGLY DECLINED OR OPPOSED, I GUESS.
11
AND I HAVE TALKED TO OTHERS WHO HAVE INTEREST
12
IN THE BILLBOARDS, AND I THINK WE WERE THINKING
13
ALONG SIMILAR LINES WITH THE STAFF WHEN THEY
14
PROPOSED THAT WE TIE THE BILLBOARDS BEING REMOVED
15
TO SOME EVENT IN THE FUTURE, SOME SPECIFIC,
16
DEFINABLE EVENT.
17
THEY SAID BUILDING PERMIT ON THAT PARCEL OR
18
ADJACENT AND WE SAID CO WITHIN A DISTANCE THAT
19
SEEMED MORE EASILY TO DEFINE.
20
WE DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO INCLUDE THE OTHER
21
BILLBOARD BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE TOWN CENTER, BUT
22
AS ANOTHER STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, I DON'T
23
MIND INCLUDING THAT ONE EITHER, INCLUDING BOTH
24
BILLBOARDS WITH THE SAME TYPE OF CRITERIA, THAT
25
WHEN SOMETHING GETS -- WHEN A BUILDING GETS BUILT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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WITHIN A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET, THEY WOULD COME DOWN.
2
AND THE REASON FOR PICKING CO IS BECAUSE WE
3
WANT TO BE SURE SOMETHING ACTUALLY GETS BUILT.
4
BUILDING PERMITS GET TAKEN OUT AND THEN THEY AREN'T
5
ACTED UPON OR THEY ARE DELAYED, AND SO A BILLBOARD
6
COULD BE REMOVED UNNECESSARILY.
7
AND IT IS A SOURCE OF REVENUE ON VACANT
8
PROPERTY. IT DOES PAY SOME TAXES AND INSURANCE.
9
IT IS OF VALUE.
10
I MEAN, I THINK EVERYONE WOULD RECOGNIZE --
11
EVEN THE OTHER DAY IN THE MEETING, EVEN VICTOR
12
DOVER WOULD RECOGNIZE ONE OF HIS FAVORITE PLACES ON
13
EARTH IS TIME SQUARE. THERE ARE BILLBOARDS THERE.
14
WHEN WE ARE TRAVELING ON THE INTERSTATE, WE
15
ALL USE IT TO FIND THE WENDY'S OR THE GAS STATION
16
OR WHATEVER. AND IN THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS,
17
THE USE, POTENTIAL USE, IS MUCH MORE LIMITED, BUT
18
THERE IS A LEGITIMATE USE FOR IT.
19
I DON'T EXPECT PEOPLE TO LOVE THEM. YOU MIGHT
20
SAY IT WOULD BE LIKE ANY OTHER LEGITIMATE USE THAT
21
SOMEONE MAY HAVE PUT THEIR PROPERTY TO THAT THEN
22
BECAME UNWANTED OR ILLEGAL AFTER THE FACT.
23
YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WAY, THERE'S A NORMAL WAY
24
THAT THOSE THINGS TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES OVER
25
TIME, AND THAT'S WHAT I . . . I THINK THE WAY IT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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SHOULD BE HANDLED, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO TAKE A
2
STEP IN YOUR DIRECTION TO TRY TO FIND A MIDDLE
3
GRO~~ BETWEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE DEAL SHOULD BLOW
4
UP UNLESS I GET TO KEEP MY BILLBOARDS FOREVER OR
5
YOU SAY THIS WHOLE DEAL SHOULD BLOW UP UNLESS THE
6
BILLBOARDS COME DOWN IMMEDIATELY.
7
AND THAT, I THINK, IS A REASONABLE MIDDLE
8
GROUND THAT SHOWS CONCESSION ON OUR PART AND YOURS
9
IF WE WERE TO AGREE ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: A QUESTION,
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER. INSTEAD OF FOREVER, WOULD YOU
12
CONSIDER SOMETHING LESS THAN FOREVER IN TERMS OF A
13
FINALITY TO SOMETHING, WHATEVER THAT IS, OKAY?
14
AND I AM NOT HERE TO SAY HOW MANY YEARS BUT AT
15
SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE THAT WAS PART OF
16
THE EARLIER --
17
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YEARS?
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT WAS BROUGHT UP
19
EARLIER.
20
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'M WILLING TO CONSIDER
21
ANYTHING. I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE BILLBOARD
22
INDUSTRY'S POINT OF VIEW IS STRONGLY OPPOSED TO
23
AMORTIZATION OR PICKING A YEAR, A NUMBER OF
24
YEARS.
FOR ONE REASON, THEY ARE KIND OF
25
THEY'RE --MAYBE THEY ARE NOT UNIQUE BUT THEY ARE IN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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A SMALL CLASS OF ASSETS THAT APPRECIATE AND DON'T
2
REALLY --PARTLY DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEY ARE UNDER
3
ATTACK FROM CITY AND COUNTY GOVERNMENTS LIMITING
4
THEIR --LIMITING NEW LOCATIONS AND TAKING DOWN OLD
5
ONES, THAT IT IS A ACCOMODITY WHOSE DEMAND IS
6
INCREASING AND WHOSE SUPPLY IS DECREASING; AND
7
THEREFORE, THE VALUE OF ANY THAT MANAGE TO SURVIVE
8
JUST GOES UP UNUSUALLY FAST.
9
SO IT'S KIND OF A
AND IT I S AN INDUSTRY
10
BEING PUT OUT OF BUSINESS BASICALLY. IN OTHER
11
WORDS, IF THEY DON'T FIGHT TOOTH-AND-NAIL FOR EACH
12
INDIVIDUAL LOCATION, IT'S LIKE HAVING YOUR
13
FACTORIES CLOSED ONE-BY-ONE AND NOT BEING ALLOWED
14
TO OPEN NEW ONES.
15
I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE A POINT IN THE FUTURE
16
WHERE YOU ARE NOW NO LONGER IN BUSINESS, AND THE
17
INCOME STREAM, YOU KNOW, RETURN ON INVESTMENT,
18
STOPS.
19
SO THEY REALLY -- THEY REALLY FIGHT THAT. I
20
NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS,
MEAN
21
BUT IF EVERYONE IS SOMEWHAT RIGHT THAT THE TOWN
22
CENTER WILL BE WELL-RECEIVED AND BUILDINGS WILL GET
23
BUILT THERE, IT WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF.
24
THE ONLY WAY THAT BILLBOARD, UNDER THE
25
SCENARIO I'M DESCRIBING, CAN CONTINUE FOREVER, IF
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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IF NOTHING EVER GETS BUILT, AND I THINK THAT'S A --
2
I THINK THAT'S VERY UNLIKELY.
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IN WHICH CASE YOU MAY
4
NEED IT.
5
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YEAH, WE WILL NEED THE
6
INCOME BECAUSE THAT WILL MEAN WE SOLD NO PROPERTY
7
AND HAVE HAD, YOU KNOW, NO OTHER REVENUE, SO . . .
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YOU HAVE A LAWYER'S
9
BILL, TOO.
10
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I DO GET THOSE ON A
11
REGULAR BASIS.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMISSIONER
13
MCLEOD.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YES.
15
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OH, I'M SORRY. ONE
16
QUICK THING. MAYBE INSTEAD OF A CO, MAYBE IT'S
17
WHEN THE ROOF GOES ON OR SOMETHING.
18
SOME COMMENT WAS MADE EARLIER ABOUT THAT WOULD
19
HOLD UP, CO OR SOMETHING.
20
IN OTHER WORDS, SOME EVIDENCE THAT IT'S REALLY
21
BEING BUILT. SOMETIMES START OF CONSTRUCTION IS
22
DEFINED IN THE LAW AS JUST MOVE THE DIRT AROUND.
23
THAT MEANS YOU ARE WORKING ON THE FOUNDATION OR
24
SOMETHING.
25
IN OTHER WORDS, SOME REAL, TANGIBLE, YES, WE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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ARE MARCHING TOWARDS ACTUALLY PUTTING A STRUCTURE
2
HERE, SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE LATER THAN THE
3
BUILDING PERMIT ISSUE BUT SOONER THAN THE CO.
4
SORRY.
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S WHERE I WAS
6
GOING. I WASN'T GOING TO GET TO THE ROOF.
7
MR. SCHRIMSHER: GREAT.
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I WAS GOING FOR THE
9
FOOTER. WHEN THE FOOTER IS APPROVED ON THE
10
BUILDING, THEN THAT WOULD START THE REMOVAL OF THE
11
BILLBOARD.
12
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WHAT IF THIS COMMISSION,
13
WHETHER CURRENT MEMBERS OR NEW ONES, OR CITY STAFF,
14
CURRENT OR FUTURE, OR THE PUBLIC AT LARGE START TO
15
LIKE BILLBOARDS?
16
WHAT IF IT BECOMES SORT OF AN ELEMENT OF
17
NOSTALGIA?
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THEN WE'LL PUT ONE
19
ON EVERY CORNER IN THE TOWN CENTER.
20
MR. SCHRIMSHER: SAVE MY BILLBOARD.
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AND PUT A LIGHT ON
22
IT, BUT LET'S JUST SAY
23
MR. SCHRIMSHER: REMEMBER THE BILLBOARDS
24
THAT THE MOTORCYCLE COPS HID BEHIND WITH THE
25
LATTICE WORK AND THE --
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: LET'S STICK TO THE
2
GREAT MIND THEORY, FROM THE ROOF TO THE FOOTER
3
AREA.
4
MR. SCHRIMSHER: GREAT MIND? GREAT MINDS
5
WORKING ALIKE.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YOU STARTED TO SAY
7
THAT.
8
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I DID. I THINK YOU READ
9
MY MIND.
10
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YOU WERE ON THE
11
ROOF AND I WAS ON THE FOOTER, SO I THINK WE ARE
12
GETTING CLOSE.
13
BUT I FELT THE OTHER DAY THAT WE WERE VERY
14
CLOSE ON THIS THING OR PERHAPS WE WOULD HAVE GIVEN
15
UP ON IT. I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO MAKE A PHONE
16
CALL TO FIND OUT FROM THE PEOPLE THAT WAS LEASING
17
AT WHAT POINT YOU WAS ABLE TO GET OUT OF THOSE
18
LEASES AND LET THE CITY MANAGER KNOW THAT.
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I DID MAKE THE PHONE
20
CALL. IT USED TO BE MAX MEDIA, WHICH IS A WINTER
21
PARK COMPANY, AND IT IS NOW REPUBLIC MEDIA, WHICH
22
IS OUT OF SOUTH FLORIDA. THINGS DON'T -- NOTHING
23
HAPPENS AS QUICKLY AND SIMPLY AS IT USED TO.
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: RIGHT, AND YOU
25
MENTIONED THAT AND THAT'S WHY YOU NEEDED A LITTLE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
TIME TO GIVE THEM A CALL TO FIND OUT
2
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT.
3
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD:
AT WHAT POINT OR
4
WHAT CONCESSION YOU HAD TO GIVE TO THEM IN ORDER TO
5
REMOVE THE BILLBOARDS.
6
SO I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE WHAT WAS THE
7
RESULTS OF THAT PHONE CALL.
8
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IT'S REFLECTED IN WHAT
9
I'M SAYING.
10
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THEY ARE --
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THEY ARE TELLING
13
YOU THAT THEY ARE GETTING MORE VALUABLE AND DON'T
14
BACK OUT; AM I CORRECT?
15
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OH, DEFINITELY.
16
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY.
17
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THEY WOULD FIGHT IT.
18
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND --
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, LET'S GO BACK
20
TO --
21
MR. SCHRIMSHER: -- THEY DON'T WANT ME
22
TO JOIN FORCES WITH YOU GUYS AND, YOU KNOW, THROW
23
THEM UNDER THE BUS.
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I UNDERSTAND THAT,
25
BUT I THINK THE THING IS HERE, LET'S TRY TO RESOLVE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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THIS ISSUE AND IN GOOD FAITH.
2
I WOULDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM THAT UPON NOT ONLY
3
THE BUILDING PERMIT COMMENCEMENT BUT ACTUALLY AFTER
4
THE FIRST INSPECTION OF THE FOOTER. I DON'T THINK
5
YOU ARE GOING TO STOP YOUR JOB AFTER YOU PUT
6
FOOTERS DOWN; RIGHT?
7
MR. SCHRIMSHER: NO. BUT I TELL YOU
8
RIGHT -- I SAID THIS EARLIER, BUT ONE OF THE USERS
9
OF OUR BILLBOARD THAT'S FURTHER OUT EAST TOWARD THE
10
BELTWAY HAS BEEN CREEKS RUN ACROSS THE STREET.
11
THERE IS A -- IF THERE EVER WAS A LEGITIMATE,
12
YOU KNOW, USE FOR A BILLBOARD, WHEN YOU HAVE GOT A
13
SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT GOING ON DURING THE
14
CONSTRUCTION OR AT LEAST A PHASE OF IT OR WHATEVER,
15
IS A GREAT TIME TO USE IT AS A PROMOTION.
16
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: HOW LONG DO YOU
17
THINK THAT BUILD-OUT IS GOING TO GO OUT THERE?
18
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WHICH ONE?
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WHERE THIS
20
BILLBOARD IS THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. TWO
21
YEARS?
22
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OH, I DON'T KNOW. I
23
HAVE NO
I MEAN, I HAVE -- FOR MY SAKE, THE
24
SOONER THE BETTER, AND FOR EVERYONE. I MEAN, IT'S
25
- - ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE TOWN CENTER?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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136
1
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, WHERE YOU ARE
2
TALKING ABOUT.
3
MR. SCHRIMSHER: CREEK'S RUN? NO, IT'S
4
-- I THINK IT'S PRETTY WELL BUILT OUT. I HAVEN'T
5
DRIVEN THROUGH THERE IN A WHILE.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT ISSUE IS
7
PROBABLY PRETTY WELL DEAD FOR THAT BILLBOARD.
8
LET'S GO BACK TO THE FOOTERS.
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WELL, I'M JUST SAYING
10
THE PROPERTY WHERE THE BILLBOARD SITS BECAUSE IT
11
COULD BECOME A --
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MY PROBLEM HERE IS
13
THAT I HEARD THE OTHER DAY, AND I HAVE HEARD AGAIN
14
THIS EVENING, THAT THE CITY MANAGER FELT THAT THE
15
CITY HAS ALREADY GIVEN CONCESSIONS OF THREE
16
HUNDRED, FIFTY THOUSAND OR BETTER ON THOSE
17
BILLBOARDS, AND NOW THAT SEEMS TO BE A DIFFERENCE
18
OF OPINION.
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YES, THAT'S A DIFFERENCE
20
OF OPINION.
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S A DIFFERENCE
22
OF OPINION. BUT AT THIS POINT I THINK IN ALL
23
FAIRNESS TO EVERYBODY AND WHERE WE HAVE ALL BEEN ON
24
THIS THING, I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO
25
RESOLVE THIS THING.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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137
1
AND I THINK YOU ARE WILLING TO SAY THE
2
BILLBOARDS GO. I JUST DON'T THINK YOU ARE WILLING
3
TO SAY WHEN THEY GO.
4
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'M DEFINITELY MOVING.
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, LET'S PUT A
6
FOOTER IN THE GROUND AND LET'S GO. LET'S STOP
7
THIS.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: FOOTER IN THE GROUND,
9
TWO HUNDRED FOOT RADIUS IS WHAT YOU ARE TALKING
10
ABOUT?
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ON THAT PARCEL.
12
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SELLING THESE PARCELS
13
OUTRIGHT?
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
15
PARCEL WILL BE.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I DON'T THINK YOU WANT
17
TO DO THAT.
18
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WE COULD CREATE A PARCEL
19
AROUND THE BILLBOARD THAT'S TINY.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO, YOU DON'T WANT TO DO
21
THAT.
22
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY I
23
THINK IT'S GOOD FOR BOTH SIDES TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC
24
DISTANCES.
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IS THIS SETTING ON
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
A PRIME PIECE OF PROPERTY WHERE THE BILLBOARD IS?
2
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I THINK IT IS. DON'T
3
YOU?
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT
5
IS. THE ONE ON THE SOUTH SIDE?
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I THINK THEY ARE BOTH
7
PRIME. THEY ARE BOTH HIGHWAY FRONTAGE. HOPEFULLY
8
SOMETHING IS COMING.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WOULD YOU -- ALL
10
RIGHT. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SAY WITHIN FIVE
11
HUNDRED FEET OF THAT, FIVE HUNDRED FEET EITHER
12
DIRECTION OF IT?
13
MR. SCHRIMSHER: NO.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY.
15
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I HAVE AN IDEA.
16
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I WOULD LIKE TO
17
HEAR COMMISSIONER BLAKE'S IDEA.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I WAS THINKING FIVE
20
HUNDRED FEET ALSO. BUT IN LIEU OF FIVE HUNDRED
21
FEET, IF WE LEFT IT TWO HUNDRED FEET -- AND THAT
22
DOESN'T MEAN THE FOOTERS WITHIN TWO HUNDRED FEET,
23
BY THE WAY. THAT MEANS THE PARCEL IS TWO HUNDRED
24
FEET; RIGHT?
25
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I JUST WAS TRYING TO
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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139
1
AVOID ANY BUSINESS OF PARCEL SIZES, BIG OR SMALL.
2
JUST IS THERE A USE WITHIN -- INSTEAD OF LANDING ON
3
IT, JUST LANDING NEAR IT.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK WE MEANT THE
5
FOOTER, THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE WITHIN THE TWO HUNDRED
6
FEET THAT WOULD BE INTERFERED WITH BY THIS THING.
7
THAT'S THE ONLY REAL WAY TO MEASURE IT.
8
OTHERWISE, THE CORNER OF THE PARCEL COULD BE
9
WAY OVER THERE.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE WOULD CERTAINLY
11
WANT TO SEE IT SUBDIVIDED THAT WAY.
12
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT. AND WE WOULD TRY
13
TO, YOU KNOW . . .
14
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IF WE LEFT IT AT TWO
15
HUNDRED FEET, THEN MY RECOMMENDATION OR SUGGESTION
16
TO YOU MIGHT BE THEY BOTH GO DOWN AT THE SAME TIME.
17
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WHY?
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: TO MEET OUR
19
OBJECTIVE. THEY BOTH GO DOWN AT THE SAME TIME, SO
20
IT'S WHENEVER THE --
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE LATER OCCURS.
22
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NO. IT'S ACTUALLY
23
GOING TO BE THE EARLIER, OF COURSE, BUT GOOD TRY.
24
WHEN THAT TWO HUNDRED FEET RADIUS IS REACHED ON
25
EITHER ONE OF THEM, THEN THEY BOTH GO DOWN AT THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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140
1
FOOTER INSPECTION.
2
WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU ARE MAKING MONEY. AND
3
ONCE THESE THINGS START GOING INTO THE GROUND, IT'S
4
A SNOWBALL. YOU KNOW THAT.
5
MR. SCHRIMSHER: TRY TO THINK OF THIS
6
PHILOSOPHICALLY A LITTLE BIT. APPLY IT TO YOUR OWN
7
BUSINESS AND COME UP WITH SOME ANALOGY AS TO WHY
8
THIS WOULD GALL YOU IF SOMETHING YOU WERE INVOLVED
9
IN BECAME UNPOPULAR DESPITE ITS LEGALITY.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YEAH. AND I THINK
11
IT'S -- I REALLY DON'T CROSS OVER THAT LINE.
12
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
13
FOR GOVERNMENT TO THINK IN THOSE TERMS.
14
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I UNDERSTAND WHAT
15
YOU ARE SAYING. I MEAN, NOT IN TERMS OF IS IT A
16
LEGAL USE OR NON-CONFORMING USE.
17
FOR ME, IT'S MUCH MORE A MATTER, JUST LIKE THE
18
TOWN CENTER IS, I THINK, A MATTER OF COMMUNITY
19
STANDARDS AND WHAT KIND OF A ENVIRONMENT ARE WE
20
TRYING TO CREATE.
21
AND IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO ONE, I THINK,
22
LASTING VALUE OF A CERTAIN QUALITY OF LIFE. AND
23
BILLBOARDS, I ADMITTED TO YOU IN THAT MEETING,
24
YEAH, I LOOK AT BILLBOARDS AND I READ THEM AND I
25
USE THEM IN CERTAIN PLACES, BUT IT'S NOT THE TYPE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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1
OF USE THAT I ENVISION FOR THE TYPE OF COMMUNITY
2
THAT WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD HERE, JUST LIKE THE
3
TOWN CENTER AREA.
4
YOU KNOW, YOU COULD PUT A STRIP CENTER IN
5
THERE AND WE COULD PROBABLY DEVELOP THE PROPERTY
6
PROFITABLY THAT WAY AND HAVE A THRIVING BUSINESS
7
THAT MIGHT CREATE A FEW JOBS, BUT IT'S MORE OF THE
8
SAME.
9
AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO CREATE HERE IS TO
10
HAVE THIS VISION OF A LONGER LASTING, SUSTAINABLE
11
COMMUNITY TYPE VALUES THAT WILL BRING A HIGHER
12
RETURN ON THE INVESTMENT TO YOU, TO EVERYBODY ELSE,
13
THAT PROTECTS YOU FROM NEIGHBORS, THE NEIGHBORS
14
PROTECTED FROM YOU, THE WHOLE DEAL, AND I SEE
15
BILLBOARDS AS PART OF THAT LEVEL OF COMMUNITY
16
WELL-BEING THAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE.
17
THAT'S ALL. IT'S NOT A DAMNING PHRASE ON
18
BILLBOARDS, IT REALLY ISN'T, THOUGH IT MAY SOUND
19
THAT WAY SOMETIMES. IT'S WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO
20
CREATE. AND I REALLY BELIEVE THAT IT CREATES A
21
VALUE FOR YOU AS WELL OVERALL.
22
YEAH, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT PIECES HERE AND
23
THERE, BUT OVERALL, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO
24
GET TO.
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IT IS MINE, TOO.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, YOU ARE RIGHT.
2
BUT THAT'S --
3
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I THINK IT WILL.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHAT'S THE DISTANCE
5
BETWEEN THOSE TWO BOARDS, A MILE?
6
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MAYBE.
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: CLOSE?
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MAYBE.
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I DON'T REMEMBER
10
EXACTLY, BUT SEVERAL THOUSAND FEET AT LEAST.
11
PROBABLY -- ACTUALLY ABOUT A MILE. I THINK IT'S
12
ABOUT FIVE THOUSAND FEET.
13
WELL, LIKEWISE, JUST LIKE YOU WERE JUST
14
POINTING OUT, A STRIP CENTER WOULD BE SOMETHING
15
THAT, YOU KNOW, COULD GO -- AND USED TO -- COULD
16
HAVE GONE IN THAT AREA ACCORDING TO IT'S CURRENT
17
ZONING, AND NOW IS GOING TO BE PROHIBITED.
18
IF ONE HAD BEEN BUILT, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE
19
MY OPINION DEFINITELY THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS TO
20
NOT GO OUT THERE AND BULLDOZE IT BECAUSE AFTER IT
21
WAS LEGALLY BUILT, IT SHOULD BE -- YOU KNOW,
22
BECAUSE NOW WE DECIDED WE DON'T LIKE IT, IN THE
23
SAME WAY THAT YOU HAVE ALLOWED A STRIP SHOPPING
24
CENTER OVER THERE AT THE GROCERY STORE TO BE BUILT
25
OVER THERE AT KASH AND KARRY BECAUSE THERE'S ONLY
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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SO FAR -- I MEAN, YOU CAN'T MAKE THE TOWN CENTER
2
TEN SQUARE MILES.
3
LIKEWISE, I'M SAYING EVEN THOUGH THIS
4
BILLBOARD HAS REALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOWN
5
CENTER -- IT'S WAY OUT OF IT, AS MUCH AS THAT KASH
6
AND KARRY IS, AND ISN'T BOUND TO LIVE, YOU KNOW, BY
7
THE RULES OF THE TOWN CENTER, I'M WILLING TO -- YOU
8
KNOW, I'M TRYING TO SAY THAT I DON'T REALLY THINK,
9
YOU KNOW, PHILOSOPHICALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO
10
DO WITH IT AND SHOULDN'T BE PART OF THIS
11
DISCUSSION, LET ALONE --
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I DON'T SEE THE
13
BILLBOARD ISSUE AS A TOWN CENTER SPECIFIC ISSUE BUT
14
A WINTER SPRINGS ISSUE, AND, YOU KNOW, THE TWO
15
CASELLS' BILLBOARDS I FEEL EQUALLY VALID JUST AS
16
YOURS.
17
MR. MAYOR, I REALLY DIDN'T HAVE THE FLOOR.
18
THE COMMISSIONER JUST ALLOWED ME TO JUMP IN.
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OH, I'M SORRY. IT FEELS
20
LIKE BAD FAITH PERHAPS IF AT THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY
21
-- FOR EXAMPLE, I CAN ANTICIPATE MISS CASELLS,
22
BECAUSE OF THAT SENTIMENT, THAT IF SHE WANTS OR
23
NEEDS ANYTHING FROM THE CITY, IT'S LIKE, OKAY, IT
24
WILL BE TIED TO THE AGREEMENT, YOU KNOW, THE
25
IMMEDIATE REMOVAL OF THE BILLBOARDS, WHICH THERE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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REALLY ISN'T A LINKAGE THERE BUT YOU CAN CREATE
2
ONE, JUST LIKE -- I MEAN, I COULD DO THE SAME
3
THING.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: LET'S GO BACK TO
6
THE FOOTER.
7
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OR WE CAN JUST START,
8
YOU KNOW, SAYING NO ELECTRICAL INSPECTION, PLUMBING
9
INSPECTION, YOU KNOW, TRUSSES.
10
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I THINK, YOU KNOW,
11
YOUR FIRST CONCERN WAS THAT THERE WAS NO TIME FRAME
12
WITH THE BUILDING PERMIT BECAUSE NOTHING WAS
13
NECESSARILY GOING TO HAPPEN.
14
AND I THINK AT THE PRESENT TIME, WE HAVE GOT
15
SOMETHING TO TIE IT TO, THE FIRST FOOTER INSPECTION
16
OF THE PROPERTY. I THINK WE ARE TYING DOWN
17
SOMETHING HERE.
18
YOU KNOW, YOU ARE NOW -- YOU ARE SAYING
19
DISTANCE OF THE BUILDING. WELL, I DON'T THINK
20
THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD ANALOGY BECAUSE THE BUILDING
21
PARKING LOT COULD BE TWO HUNDRED FOOT LONG AND THE
22
NEXT PARKING LOT COULD BE TWO HUNDRED FEET LONG.
23
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THAT'S WHY I SAY
24
STRUCTURE. I MEAN --
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, THAT'S WHAT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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11M SAYING, BECAUSE ACTUALLY THIS IS JUST THE
2
OPPOSITE. YOU ARE SAYING NEXT TO THE STRUCTURE
3
WITHIN TWO HUNDRED FEET, BUT A PARKING LOT FOR A
4
SIZABLE STORE OR OFFICE BUILDING CAN BE WELL OVER
5
TWO HUNDRED FOOT FROM THE BUILDING.
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT. AND I'M SURE
7
WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS POSSIBLE, ALTHOUGH IF YOU
8
LOOK AT THE DRAWINGS AND THE CODE OF THIS TOWN
9
CENTER, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF ALLOWANCE FOR THAT.
10
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: FOR WHAT, PARKING
11
LOT?
12
MR. SCHRIMSHER: BIG EXPANSES OF -- I
13
MEAN, JUST LOOKING AT THE PICTURES AND LOOKING AT
14
-- YOU KNOW, THE BIG BOX IS AN EXCEPTION THAT
15
REQUIRES SPECIAL APPROVAL OF DRC AND THIS CITY
16
COMMISSION.
17
AND, I MEAN, JUST LOOK AT THE WAY THE STREET
18
GRID IS LAID OUT.
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: HOW LONG IS ONE OF
20
THE STREETS?
21
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IN GENERAL, I MEAN, THEY
22
-- VICTOR DREW THESE AS CITY BLOCKS OF LIKE TWO
23
HUNDRED, FIFTY, THREE HUNDRED FOOT WIDE BLOCKS. I
24
MEAN, THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.
25
IF YOU LOOK AT -- IF THAT DRAWING WAS UP
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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THERE, I MEAN JUST IN THAT AREA WHERE THE TRAIL IS
2
AND THE NEXT STREET AND THE NEXT STREET, I MEAN YOU
3
CAN'T VERY EASILY, APART FROM GOING THROUGH THE
4
SPECIAL EXCEPTION PROCESS, ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU WERE
5
JUST DESCRIBING. BUT ANYWAY .
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT SOUNDS TO ME
7
LIKE YOU ARE WILLING, YOU KNOW, TO GET RID OF THEM.
8
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT'S SO MUCH DEBATE. IT'S
9
WHEN.
10
MR. SCHRIMSHER: MAYBE IT SHOULD BE -- I
11
MEAN, I WON'T BE ALLOWED THE DAY THAT SOMEONE GETS
12
A FOOTER INSPECTION TO GO OUT AND CHOP THEM DOWN.
13
I'LL HAVE TO THEN SERVE SOME KIND OF NOTICE, SO WE
14
SHOULD PUT SOME KIND OF -- LIKE SO MANY DAYS
15
WITHIN.
16
I MEAN, I'LL HAVE TO SERVE NOTICE AND SAY, YOU
17
HAVE GOT THIRTY DAYS OR SIXTY DAYS OR WHATEVER, YOU
18
HAVE GOT A PERIOD OF TIME CERTAIN TO GET IT DOWN,
19
BECAUSE THIS IS A TRIGGER THAT HAS TO BE PULLED.
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, THE OTHER
21
THING HERE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING IS GOING
22
TO TAKE AWHILE. SIXTY DAYS SHOULD BE VERY AMPLE
23
TIME, I WOULD THINK.
24
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I AGREE.
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. SO--
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I MEAN, SOMETIMES EVEN
2
IF THE BOARD COMES DOWN, THEY HAVE TO -- THE
3
COMPANY HAS TO FULFILL AN OBLIGATION TO WHOEVER
4
THEIR ADVERTISER WAS THAT WAS ON THERE.
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, IF YOU GIVE
6
THEM NOTICE --
7
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT.
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: -- THAT PRESENTLY
9
YOUR LEASE IS FROM MONTH-TO-MONTH UNTIL WHICH TIME
10
YOU NOTIFY THEM.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: ' RIGHT.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AND, YOU KNOW,
13
THEY HAVE GOT AMPLE TIME BETWEEN NOW AND WHENEVER
14
THE TOWN CENTER STARTS. I WOULD THINK, AGAIN, A
15
FAIR
16
THE PROBLEM I HAVE, MICHAEL, IS THAT THE
17
STRUCTURE -- BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE ONLY TWO HUNDRED
18
FEET FROM THE STRUCTURE, TWO HUNDRED FEET ISN'T
19
THAT FAR IN A PARKING LOT, NOT THAT FAR.
20
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'M JUST ASKING YOU TO
21
LOOK AT THE DRAWING AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS WITH A
22
SCALE AND SEE WHERE IT TAKES YOU.
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE PLOTS OVER THERE
24
ARE BIGGER.
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WHAT DID YOU SAY?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE PLOTS ON THAT
2
SIDE OF THE STREET ARE BIGGER.
3
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YEAH, THEY ARE MUCH
4
BIGGER. AGAIN, I THINK -- WHY DON'T WE JUST PUT
5
THIS THING TO BED?
6
THE OTHER DAY YOU WANTED SOMETHING VERY BAD
7
FROM ME, AND I'M MORE THAN WILLING TO GIVE IT TO
8
YOU RIGHT NOW. YOU WANTED FIVE HUNDRED FEET, AND
9
I'M WILLING TO GIVE YOU THE FIVE HUNDRED FEET,
10
MICHAEL.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
12
THAT RADIUS OF THE PARK?
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OF THE PARK, FIVE
14
HUNDRED FEET RADIUS. I WILL GIVE IT TO YOU ON YOUR
15
SIGN, FIVE HUNDRED FEET FROM THE SIGN IN ANY
16
DIRECTION THAT BECOMES A BUILDING PARCEL. THE
17
SIGNS COME DOWN SIXTY DAYS AFTER WE GET A FOOTER.
18
AND I THINK THAT'S --
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I THINK WHEN WE ARGUED
20
-- NOT ARGUED BUT CONSIDERED THE TWO HUNDRED AND
21
FIFTY AND FIVE HUNDRED FOOT RADIUSES, YOU HAD AN
22
VISUAL AID THAT YOU COULD LOOK AT THAT SORT OF
23
HELPED SUPPORT YOUR CASE, BUT IN THIS CASE, YOU ARE
24
KIND OF JUST PICKING UP --
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I HAD ONE THAT SAID
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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TWO-FIFTY AND ONE FIVE HUNDRED.
2
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT. BUT NOW YOU
3
DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO LOOK AT.
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I CAN STILL
5
VISUALIZE WHAT THAT IS. I STILL REMEMBER THE
6
CIRCLE OFF THE TWO-FIFTY AND FIVE HUNDRED OFF THE
7
PARKS THAT WE HAD THE OTHER DAY.
8
IF YOU WOULD LIKE, I MEAN, I STILL HAVE THAT
9
WITH ME. I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GO OUT IN MY
10
VEHICLE AND BRING IT IN IF THAT WILL HELP YOU
11
VISUALIZE THAT.
12
THERE'S TWO CIRCLES ON THERE. ONE'S
13
TWO-FIFTY AND ONE IS FIVE HUNDRED.
14
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: CAN I MAKE A
15
COMMENT HERE?
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: SURE.
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY?
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY.
19
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: ONE SIGN IS IN THE
20
TOWN CENTER; AM I RIGHT?
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT.
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: RIGHT.
23
VICE MAYOR GENNELL: AND THE OTHER SIGN
24
IS NOT EVEN IN THE TOWN CENTER?
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S CORRECT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: SO WHEN YOU ARE
2
APPLYING THE FOOTAGE AND THE DENSITY IN THE TOWN
3
CENTER, THAT ONLY APPLIES TO THE ONE?
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S CORRECT.
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: OKAY.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NOW, AS FAR AS -- I
7
DON'T WANT TO PICK OUT A PLAY. THE SECOND ONE, I
8
DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, HOW THAT APPLIES TO THE TOWN
9
CENTER PERSONALLY OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, THE CITY
10
WOULD JUST LIKE TO GET RID OF BOTH OF THEM.
11
BUT TRUTHFULLY, I THINK THE TOWN CENTER IS THE
12
ISSUE HERE THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING, AND YOUR
13
BILLBOARD -- AND I WOULD BE WILLING TO WORK WITH
14
THE ONE THAT'S IN THE TOWN CENTER PRIMARILY, IF
15
NEED BE, BUT I THINK BOTH OF THEM SHOULD GO AND I
16
THINK PROBABLY IN GOOD CONSCIOUS YOU FEEL THE SAME
17
ABOUT THAT.
18
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: IT IS IN THE
19
CORRIDOR.
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, THAT'S TRUE.
21
IT'S IN THE CORRIDOR, BUT IT DOES AFFECT THE
22
OVERALL CORRIDOR.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: WHILE THAT IS ON THE
24
TABLE, CAN COMMISSIONER BLAKE -- COMMISSIONER
25
BLAKE.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NOT YET.
2
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'M SORRY.
3
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE ARE WAITING FOR
4
YOU.
5
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: MICHAEL, I JUST
6
WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT KASH AND KARRY IS A PRODUCT
7
OF A COMMISSION DECISION ON A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT
8
THAT GOES BACK TO 1990. WE WERE STUCK WITH IT.
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT. I'M JUST SAYING
10
THAT THE RULES, THE STRICT TYPE RULES THAT ARE
11
ENVISIONED FOR THE TOWN CENTER, REALLY CAN'T BE
12
AND YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO APPLY THEM THROUGHOUT THE
13
WHOLE CITY AND LIKEWISE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT WAS FIVE
15
HUNDRED FOOT, RIGHT?
16
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IT'S BIG. IT'S A BIG
17
LEAP.
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: COME ON, MICHAEL.
19
MR. SCHRIMSHER: DOESN'T SOMEBODY ELSE
20
HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY?
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO. WE ARE ALL
22
WAITING.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: FIVE HUNDRED FEET ON THE
24
SAME SIDE OF THE ROAD. YOU DON'T WANT TO BE LEAP
25
FROGGING OVER TO 434.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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MR. SCHRIMSHER: SURE THEY DO.
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I WOULD GIVE YOU
3
THAT IN WHAT I'M PROPOSING. I THINK IT SHOULD BE
4
ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET THAT THE SIGN IS ON,
5
YES.
6
WITH THAT, MICHAEL, LET'S GO.
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND ALL THE LITTLE SMALL
8
NEIGHBORHOOD PARKS, INSTEAD OF HAVING THE TWO-FIFTY
9
NUMBER, THAT WOULD BE CHANGED TO FIVE HUNDRED.
10
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, NO, NO.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO
12
GIVE ME SOMETHING I REALLY LIKED.
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, WHAT WERE YOU
14
SAYING?
15
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I SAID HE WAS
16
TWISTING MY ARM THE OTHER DAY. HE LIKED THE FIVE
17
HUNDRED NUMBER.
18
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OH, IT'S JUST THE
19
NUMBER.
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: HE LIKED THE
21
NUMBER. I WAS WILLING TO GIVE IT TO HIM.
22
MR. SCHRIMSHER: JUST WHERE I DIDN'T WANT
23
IT.
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: GOOD TRY.
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I REALLY THOUGHT HE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
MEANT IT. I TOLD HIM ALL THESE THINGS MOVE AROUND.
2
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU
3
WERE TALKING ABOUT. THAT'S WHY I GOT A PUZZLED
4
LOOK AND HOPED SOMEONE ELSE WOULD SAY SOMETHING.
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MICHAEL, GET THAT
6
ONE RESOLVED AND WE ARE JUST GOING TO GIVE YOU BACK
7
TO STAFF.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: PLEASE DON'T DO THAT.
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THROW ME TO THE BRIAR
10
PATCH.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IS IT --
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD, IS THIS THE SAME NUMBER FOR
13
BOTH THE BILLBOARDS, FIVE HUNDRED ON THE ONE SIDE
14
OF THE STREET?
15
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I THINK THEY NEED
16
TO BE ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET.
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YEA.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE ARE TALKING BOTH
19
BILLBOARDS, RIGHT, BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALREADY
20
OFFERED TO GIVE US
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK WHAT WE ARE
22
TALKING ABOUT
23
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, THAT'S CORRECT,
24
ONE AT A TIME. WHEN IT HAPPENS FOR THE PARCEL.
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE FIVE HUNDRED
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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FEET?
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: TWO HUNDRED FEET ON
3
BOTH OF THEM, PREFERABLY.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S HOW WE FELT ABOUT
5
MOVING THE PARKS.
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THIS WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE
7
GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER DOESN'T SEEM TO WORK
8
AROUND HERE.
9
THREE-FIFTY.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I SAID TWO-FIFTY.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'M JUST TRYING TO SPLIT
12
THE DIFFERENCE, THAT'S ALL.
13
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE ALREADY GAVE YOU
14
ONE SIDE OF THE ROAD FOR FREE. THAT'S HALF THE
15
RADIUS RIGHT THERE.
16
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THAT'S A HUNDRED
17
AND FIFTY FEET-.ACROSS THE ROAD.
18
MR. SCHRIMSHER: NOBODY CAN BUILD
19
ANYTHING IN THE HIGHWAY. OKAY.
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: JUST THINK, YOU
21
COULD HAVE ALL THESE EXTRA NIGHTS BACK, FREE TIME.
22
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'LL HAVE TO GET A
23
SOCIAL LIFE.
24
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: YOU CAN START
25
PAYING RENT FOR BEING HERE.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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MR. GRINDSTAFF: I'M OFF THE CLOCK.
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: GET THAT ON TAPE.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: IN THE SPIRIT OF
4
NEGOTIATIONS --
5
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IS THAT A GOOD
6
DEAL, MICHAEL, FIVE HUNDRED WITH THE FOOTERS ON
7
YOUR SAME SIDE OF THE STREET, AND HAPPENS AS THAT
8
PARCEL DEVELOPS FOR EACH BILLBOARD, WHEN THEY ARE
9
INDIVIDUALLY DONE?
10
IN FACT, I'M ABOUT TO FLIP YOU FOR THEM.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WHAT?
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I SAID I'M ABOUT TO
13
FLIP YOU FOR THEM.
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I GUESS I'M WILLING TO
15
GO GREATER THAN TWO HUNDRED. I'M JUST -- I'M
16
HESITATING TO SAY FIVE BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE QUITE
17
A LEAP, THAT'S ALL.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE
19
TO SAY FIVE. WE DID. YOU JUST SAY YES.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I'D LIKE TO ASK ANTHONY,
21
THE REVISIONS TO THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT ARE JUST A
22
RESULT OF THE ORC REPORT AND ARE GOING TO BE HEARD
23
BY THE LPA TOMORROW OR LATER TODAY, LATER TONIGHT,
24
WHAT KIND OF REVISIONS ARE THEY GOING TO -- MIGHT
25
THEY RESULT IN ANY REVISIONS IN OUR AGREEMENT?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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I MEAN, YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT THE MITIGATION,
2
FOR EXAMPLE. YOU KNOW, THE WETLAND LINE ON THE
3
TOWN CENTER GOES WAY OUT INTO THE WETLANDS, INTO
4
BOONESVILLE, AND NO ONE WANTS TO DEVELOP OVER THERE
5
TOWARD THE CREEK AND ALL THAT STUFF, BUT THERE WILL
6
BE A DAY WHEN MIKE MAY WANT TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE
7
THAT ACREAGE FOR MITIGATION CREDITS.
8
IN OTHER WORDS, BE ABLE TO SUBJECT THAT
9
PROPERTY
ALL I KNOW ABOUT IT IS SOMETHING IS
10
CHANGING IN THE MITIGATION AS OF THIS AFTERNOON IN
11
THE ORC REPORT TRYING TO MEET THE REQUEST FOR THE
12
DCA'S CHANGES.
13
MR. GARGANESE: WITH RESPECT TO WETLANDS?
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YEAH.
15
MR. GARGANESE: THERE WAS A -- I HAD SENT
16
THIS ORDINANCE TO DCA FOR A FORMAL REVIEW, AND THE
17
LANGUAGE THAT WE HAD IN THE TRANSMITTAL STATED
18
SOMETHING ABOUT MITIGATING, THAT THE DEVELOPER
19
COULD MITIGATE JURISDICTIONAL WETLANDS, AND DCA
20
WANTED THAT LANGUAGE STRICKEN.
21
THEY FELT THAT THE WETLANDS SHOULD BE
22
PRESERVED AS CONSERVATION AREAS. THEY ALSO SAID
23
THAT ANY PROPERTY THAT'S CURRENTLY DESIGNATED
24
CONSERVATION ON THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP WILL REMAIN
25
-- WITHIN THE TOWN CENTER -- WILL REMAIN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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1
CONSERVATION.
2
I THINK THERE'S A SMALL, LITTLE SEGMENT ON THE
3
FUTURE LAND USE MAP THAT APPLIES TO YOU IN THAT
4
REGARD.
5
SO WHAT I DID WAS I PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN THE
6
TOWN CENTER COMP PLAN AMENDMENT THAT SPECIFICALLY
7
SAYS ,THAT PROPERTIES THAT ARE DESIGNATED
8
CONSERVATION SHALL BE SUBJECT TO THE GOALS AND
9
OBJECTIVES OF THE CONSERVATION ELEMENT OF THE CITY
10
OF WINTER SPRINGS.
11
SO THAT'S THE STATUS QUO TODAY. ANY PROPERTY
12
THAT'S CURRENTLY ZONED CONSERVATION, THE
13
CONSERVATION ELEMENT APPLIES. AND THERE IS SOME
14
MITIGATION LANGUAGE IN THAT ELEMENT.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: HERE AGAIN, NOT LOOKING
16
TO DEVELOP THAT MITIGATED ELSEWHERE AND DEVELOPMENT
17
BUT JUST TO BE ABLE TO USE IT AND COUNT TOWARD
18
MITIGATION OFF-SITE.
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WHAT'S THAT GOT TO
20
DO WITH THE BILLBOARDS?
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, WHAT IT HAS TO DO
22
WITH BILLBOARDS IS THAT HE MAY BE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE
23
AN ITEM -- WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THESE OTHER ITEMS ARE
24
GOING TO RESULT IN, THESE CHANGES TO THE COMP PLAN
25
AMENDMENT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
MAYBE IT CAN HELP EASE THE PAIN OF ANY TYPE OF
2
COMPROMISE ON THE BILLBOARD ISSUE.
3
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I THINK HE HAS GOT
4
ALREADY HE HAS GOTTEN OVER THREE HUNDRED
5
THOUSAND DOLLARS.
6
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S DEBATABLE, OKAY.
7
THAT'S DEBATABLE.
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: RIGHT NOW LET'S
9
STICK TO THIS ISSUE. GO AHEAD.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: AN OFFER IS ON THE FLOOR,
11
AS THEY SAY. IT'S EITHER YOU AGREE OR COUNTER
12
OFFER.
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: FINAL ANSWER?
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I'M JUST LOOKING AT
15
JUST TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE TO
16
ME.
17
I STILL LIKE WHAT I BLURTED OUT A MINUTE AGO,
18
THE THREE-FIFTY, BECAUSE OF THE TYPICAL STREETS,
19
BLOCKS THAT ARE BEING CREATED IN THIS CITY BY
20
VICTOR ARE IN THE RANGE OF THREE, THREE HUNDRED AND
21
THIRTY.
22
SO THAT SEEMS LIKE A RANGE.
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: SO THREE-FIFTY WOULD
24
BE BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET; RIGHT?
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S NOT WIDE ENOUGH.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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159
1
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE ARE NOT GOING TO
2
COUNT THE WIDTH OF THE STREET?
3
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YOU ARE NOT?
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IT GOES DOWN TO FIVE
5
FEET.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, IT'S GETTING LATE.
7
SO BUT BASICALLY YOUR COUNTER IS THREE-FIFTY NOW,
8
AND BOTH BULLETIN BOARDS?
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THAT MAKES IT SEVEN
10
HUNDRED FOOT, AS YOU KNOW, CLEAR SPAN, BECAUSE IT'S
11
IN EACH DIRECTION NOW.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: HE MEANT ONE
13
SEVENTY-FIVE IN EACH DIRECTION.
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THAT'S WHAT HE MEANT?
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I'M KIDDING.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. SO YOUR
17
COUNTER IS THREE-FIFTY. IT'S BOTH BILLBOARD
18
LOCATIONS, AND BASICALLY THEY WILL COME DOWN ONE AT
19
A TIME BASED ON WHATEVER CONSTRUCTION IS NECESSARY.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: FOOTER BEING POURED
21
WITHIN THREE HUNDRED, FIFTY FEET FROM THAT
22
PARTICULAR STRUCTURE.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: RIGHT.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: BOTH SIDES OF THE
STREET.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO. THEY ARE TALKING
2
ABOUT THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET COULD TRIGGER
3
REMOVAL ON THE SOUTH SIDE.
4
THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE IT WOULD HAPPEN. THE
5
OTHER ONE, HE DOESN'T OWN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
6
STREET.
7
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT. AND THEY WON'T
8
PUT ONE IN CREEKS ROAD.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE WERE THERE AND YOU
10
ADDED A FACTOR.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NO, BECAUSE WE
12
WEREN'T THERE. WE WERE AT FIVE HUNDRED, ONE SIDE
13
OF THE STREET, I THINK. I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE --
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: WELL, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO
15
IS SAY YES.
16
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: DID YOU SAY YES?
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. NO, LET'S GET
18
SERIOUS FOR A SECOND HERE. THE FIVE HUNDRED, IS
19
THIS GOING TO BE YOUR COUNTER, I GUESS, YOUR
20
COUNTER OFFER?
21
MR. SCHRIMSHER: COUNTER.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: IF THAT'S WHAT IT IS,
23
OKAY, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT'S BOTH SIDES OF
25
THE STREET? YOU ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT ONE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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1
BILLBOARD
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO.
3
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: -- THAT'S ON BOTH
4
SIDES OF THE STREET, BECAUSE YOU DON'T OWN THE
5
OTHER SIDE OF THE SECOND ONE. IT'S A MINOR
6
CONCESSION.
7
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I COULD DO A RADIUS.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IF WE GIVE IT.
9
THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, BOTH SIDES OF THE
10
STREET.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: RIGHT. LIKE THIS.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IF IT WERE PERPENDICULAR
13
ACROSS, IT WOULD BE THE SHORTEST DISTANCE, BUT IF
14
IT IS DOWN THAT WAY
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
15
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT IS EITHER IN THE
16
CIRCLE OR IT ISN'T.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S RIGHT.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT'S PRETTY EASY TO
19
FIGURE OUT.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: HOW ARE YOU GOING TO
21
DRAW A RADIUS IF --
22
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: SHIFTED ARCH.
23
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: MICHAEL, YOU ARE
24
GOING TO DO VERY WELL THERE.
25
MR. SCHRIMSHER: I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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1
I'M COUNTING ON IT. IF I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS AT
2
LEAST POSSIBLE, I WOULDN'T EVEN BOTHER GOING
3
THROUGH ALL THIS EXERCISE, AND NEITHER WOULD Y'ALL.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE AT THE
5
THREE-FIFTY RADIUS. IS THAT OKAY?
6
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THAT'S CORRECT.
7
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: INDIVIDUAL.
8
MR. SCHRIMSHER: INDIVIDUAL.
9
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT'S A CONCESSION.
10
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YES.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: ON OUR PART.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: IS EVERYBODY IN AGREEMENT
13
ON THAT?
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, NO.
15
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OF COURSE NOT.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHY?
17
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: BECAUSE I DON'T
18
LIKE THE DISTANCE BECAUSE I KNOW WHERE THE DISTANCE
19
OF A PARKING LOT AND THAT KIND OF THING COULD BE,
20
AND, I MEAN, THAT'S --
21
MR. SCHRIMSHER: NO. I THINK YOU SHOULD
22
TAKE OUT A DRAWING OF VICTOR'S PLAN AND I THINK YOU
23
WILL SEE IT'S -- WHAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IS
24
NOT A REAL POSSIBILITY OF CONCERN.
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: FOUR HUNDRED FEET,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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163
1
MICHAEL. YOU GAVE ME A HUNDRED. I GAVE YOU BACK A
2
HUNDRED. FOUR HUNDRED FEET, FLAT OUT. THAT'S IT.
3
COMMISSIONER MILLER: FOUR HUNDRED AND
4
FIFTY.
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: TWO SEVENTY-FIVE.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: THIS IS NOT AN AUCTION.
7
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT'S NOT. NO, I'M
8
SERIOUS. FOUR HUNDRED FEET. WE ARE WITHIN FIFTY
9
FEET OF EACH OTHER. LET'S JUST GET IT OVER WITH.
10
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AND WE ARE NOT
11
TYING THEM TOGETHER EITHER.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE ARE NOT COMMITTING TO
13
NO ADDITIONAL REVISIONS THAT COULD RESULT FROM
14
TOMORROW NIGHT'S MEETING.
15
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: PARDON ME?
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL
17
REVISIONS THAT MAY COME FROM TOMORROW NIGHT'S
18
MEETING AFTER THE CODE IS REVISITED AND THE COMP
19
PLAN AMENDMENT IS REVISITED BY THE LPA.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: WELL, THE COMMISSION
21
CONTROLS THE FINAL REVISIONS.
22
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THAT'S RIGHT.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. OR REVISIONS THAT
24
MAY OCCUR TO THE CODE AND TO THE COMP PLAN
25
AMENDMENT BY THIS COMMISSION.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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164
1
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, THIS IS GOING
2
IN OUR AGREEMENT, OUR AGREEMENT WITH YOU FOLKS ON
3
THAT PROPERTY. THAT'S WHERE THIS IS GOING TO.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHICH IS -- WOULD BE
5
ENTERED INTO IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE PASSAGE OF THE
6
CODE AND THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT THAT'S GOING TO
7
AUTHORIZE THE CODE.
8
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE ARE NOT ON
9
BILLBOARDS ANYMORE. GO BACK TO BILLBOARDS.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S RIGHT.
11
MR. SCHRIMSHER: ALL RIGHT. I DON'T
12
REALLY UNDERSTAND YOUR MATH A MINUTE AGO WHEN YOU
13
SAID YOU GAVE ME A HUNDRED AND I GAVE YOU A HUNDRED
14
BECAUSE I STARTED AT TWO HUNDRED AND YOU WENT TO
15
FIVE.
16
THERE'S A THREE HUNDRED SPLIT THERE. THAT'S
17
WHAT I WAS DOING WHEN I MENTIONED THE MIDDLE, SO I
18
DON'T THINK FOUR HUNDRED IS --
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THERE'S FIVE OF US.
20
PER CAPITA IS NOT THAT MUCH.
21
MR. SCHRIMSHER: UH-HUH. THAT'S A
22
HVNDRED FOOT PER EACH OF YOU.
23
COMMISSIONER MILLER: SPLIT THE
24
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIVE HUNDRED AND FOUR HUNDRED
25
AND JUST MAKE IT FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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165
1
MR. SCHRIMSHER: OR JUST SPLIT THE
2
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, ZERO AND --
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: TWO HUNDRED.
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MICHAEL, I'D LIKE
5
TO GO HOME.
6
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: WHY DON'T YOU TAKE
7
FOUR HUNDRED BECAUSE WE WERE ORIGINALLY GOING TO BE
8
TYING THE BOARDS TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, AND SO YOU ARE
9
ENDING UP WITH QUITE A BIT TO GAIN HERE MAYBE.
10
MR. SCHRIMSHER: DEPENDS WHAT YOU COMPARE
11
IT TO.
12
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I MEAN, WE HAVE
13
GIVEN CONCESSIONS AS FAR AS TRYING TO ALLOW YOU TO
14
ACCOMMODATE YOU TO.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THIS IS THE OTHER SIDE
16
OF THE STREET OVER HERE.
17
MR. SCHRIMSHER: IF WE ARE GOING TO BRAG,
18
I THINK I HAVE CONCEDED PLENTY. YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
19
I
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: LET'S NOT GO TO
21
ANY --
22
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: MICHAEL, LET'S
23
GO. I MEAN, YOU CAN DO IT, I KNOW.
24
MR. SCHRIMSHER: CALL IT A DAY.
25
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MICHAEL, WHY DON'T
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
THE TWO OF YOU TALK FOR A MOMENT AND LET'S COME TO
2
A CONCLUSION HERE.
3
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: SEND US HOME.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: WE ARE CLOSE. WHATEVER
5
IT IS, WE ARE CLOSE. WE ARE CLOSE. WE ARE REAL
6
CLOSE. WE JUST NEED TO GET TO SOME KIND OF
7
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, TAKING THOSE
8
BILLBOARDS DOWN WOULD BE THE GREATEST THING BECAUSE
9
THAT MEANS YOU ARE BUILDING SOMETHING.
10
MR. SCHRIMSHER: THAT MEANS WHAT?
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT MEANS SOMETHING
12
IS BEING BUILT. MEANS YOU ARE MAKING MONEY.
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT'S RIGHT.
THERE'S
14
NO YEARS INVOLVED HERE, SO WHENEVER CONSTRUCTION
15
STARTS, OR THE FOOTERS, WE ELIMINATE THAT PORTION
16
OF IT.
17
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: PAUL IS GOING TO
18
BRING YOU A BUYER FOR THE LOTS CLOSEST TO THE
19
BILLBOARDS.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT.
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY, WHAT, FOUR
22
HUNDRED FOOT RADIUS, SINGLE BILLBOARDS AT A TIME.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: SAME SIDE?
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: SAME SIDE OF THE
25
STREET. FOOTER BEING ACCEPTED, AND SIXTY DAYS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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167
1
AFTER THAT BEFORE THEY ARE DOWN.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE BETTER CALL A
3
CONFERENCE ON THIS.
4
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WANT ME TO COME
5
WITH YOU?
6
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, MR. SCHRIMSHER.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THANKS FOR WAITING.
9
MR. SCHRIMSHER: YOU'RE WELCOME. I'VE
10
LEARNED MY LESSON. SHOULD HAVE LEARNED IT THE
11
FIRST TIME.
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: SO IS IT FOUR
13
HUNDRED OR DO WE HAVE TO TAKE THE NEXT ITEM?
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: MY OFF-THE-CLOCK
15
ATTORNEY WILL.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: HERE'S THE THING. THE
17
FOUR HUNDRED IS IMPORTANT TO YOU. THE TIMING IS
18
IMPORTANT TO MIKE.
19
HOW ABOUT WE DO THE FOUR HUNDRED, ONE SIDE OF
20
THE ROAD, INDIVIDUAL BOARDS, AND THE MAGIC MOMENT
21
IS CO, NOT FOOTER.
22
YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A COUPLE MORE MONTHS
23
UNLESS THEY GET --
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: BUT I GAVE HIM
25
SIXTY DAYS FROM THE FOOTER. HE SHOULD HAVE HIS CO.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
MR. GRINDSTAFF: BUT THEN WHAT'S WRONG
2
WITH THE CO?
3
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WELL, THEN THE
4
SIXTY DAYS GOES AWAY.
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT'S GONE AT CO. IN
6
OTHER WORDS, THE CO IS NOT ISSUED.
7
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YOU WANT TO GIVE UP
8
THE SIXTY DAYS, MIKE, INSTEAD OF CO? NOT SIXTY
9
DAYS AFTER CO. WE HAVE ALREADY NEGOTIATED THAT OUT
10
EARLIER.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I UNDERSTAND, BUT THAT'S
12
WHEN WE WERE AT TWO-FIFTY, THREE HUNDRED, THAT KIND
13
OF STUFF, TOO.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, NO, NO, MIKE.
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: CAN I ASK A QUESTION.
16
MR. GRINDSTAFF: DOES THE SIXTY DAYS
17
BOTHER YOU THAT MUCH FOR A BOARD THAT HAS BEEN HERE
18
FOR DECADES?
19
MAYOR PARTYKA: CAN I ASK A QUESTION.
20
WHEN YOU SAY CO, DOES THAT MEAN THE BILLBOARD IS
21
DOWN AT THE CO?
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YES. HE IS NOW
23
ASKING SIXTY DAYS AFTER THE CO.
24
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT
25
THAT ONE. I WAS TRYING TO SPLIT THE BABY,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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169
1
COMMISSIONER.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: INTERNALLY THEY HAVE TO
3
DO SOME PLANNING, AND A FEW. WHETHER IT'S A
4
MONTH BEFORE OR SIX WEEKS BEFORE OR EIGHT WEEKS
5
BEFORE, THEY HAVE GOT TO START NOTIFYING THE
6
PEOPLE.
7
ULTIMATELY IT COMES OUT TO ABOUT THE SAME
8
THING.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE ARE TRYING TO SPLIT
10
IT TO GET THERE TO MOVE ON TO OTHER THINGS.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: LET ME ASK YOU
12
THIS: I WILL GIVE THE CO IF YOU GIVE ME THE SIXTY
13
DAYS.
14
MR. SCHRIMSHER: GREAT.
15
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: GOOD, BECAUSE IT'S
16
PROBABLY THE SAME THING.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, WE ARE CLEAR ON
18
THAT?
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHOA, WHOA, WHOA. WHAT
20
WAS THE QUESTION? BOTH SIDES
21
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: ON THE ONE IN TOWN
22
CENTER IS BOTH SIDES OF THE ROAD.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THEY ARE TREATED
24
INDIVIDUALLY?
25
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: CORRECT, TREATED
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
INDIVIDUALLY. AND THE OTHER ONE, WE WILL JUST DO
2
ONE SIDE OF THE ROAD.
3
MR. SCHRIMSHER: NO.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: NO.
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: NO, NO, NO.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: NO, NO, THAT'S NOT
7
WHAT WAS AGREED ON.
8
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: ONE SIDE.
9
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: PLEASE, LET'S PUT
10
THIS TO REST.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I'M ASKING A QUESTION,
12
THAT'S ALL.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: ONE SIDE OF THE
14
ROAD WAS WHAT THE ORIGINAL WAS. EVERYBODY HAS GOT
15
-- YOU KNOW, OUR CONVERSATION IS BETWEEN YOU AND I.
16
YOU HAVE TO GET THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS TO
17
VOTE.
18
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: COMMISSIONER
19
MCLEOD, MAKE A MOTION.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: SOMEONE MAKE A MOTION.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. GRINDSTAFF
22
WILL HELP MR. MCLEOD.
23
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: OKAY. I WILL BE
24
MORE THAN HAPPY TO MAKE THE MOTION. ON THE
BILLBOARDS, THE BILLBOARDS WILL COME DOWN UPON CO,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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C OF O. IT WILL BE -- EACH BILLBOARD WILL BE
2
PREDICATED UPON ITS OWN REGARDING THE SAME SIDE
3
OF THE ROAD, ONLY THE DISTANCE OF THE FOUR HUNDRED
4
FEET --
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: RADIUS.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: -- OF THE RADIUS IS
7
ONLY GOOD FOR THE SIDE OF THE STREET THAT THE
8
BILLBOARD IS ON, CORRECT.
9
WHAT ELSE ARE WE MISSING?
10
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THE BUILDING SITE,
11
NOT THE PARCEL. IT'S THE BUILDING SITE.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: CO FOR A STRUCTURE
13
WITHIN FOUR HUNDRED FEET --
14
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: CORRECT.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: -- ON THE SAME SIDE OF
16
THE ROAD.
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: RIGHT.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND THE BOARD IS
19
DOWN BEFORE THE ISSUANCE OF THE CO. IN OTHER
20
WORDS --
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YOU CONDITION THE
22
CO ON THE BOARD BEING DOWN.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: YOU CAN HAVE THE BOARD
24
DOWN AT 10:00 AND THE CO AT 10:01.
25
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THAT'S GOOD.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: DOES THAT COVER ALL
2
THE ISSUES?
3
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YOU KNOW, YOU RAISE A
4
THOUGHT. SORRY, BUT YOU RAISE A THOUGHT BECAUSE IF
5
THE TENANT -- JUST SUPPOSE THE TENANT, YOU KNOW,
6
FOR WHATEVER REASON -- WE WILL TAKE THE ACTION TO
7
TERMINATE THE BOARD, BUT WHAT IF WE GET IN SIDEWAYS
8
WITH A TENANT WHO IS SIDEWAYS WITH AN ADVERTISER,
9
YOU KNOW? I MEAN, THINK ABOUT IT.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT'S WHY YOU
11
SHOULD START EARLY.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: PUT THEM ON NOTICE
13
NOW.
14
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: NOTHING STOPS YOU
15
FROM PUTTING THEM ON NOTICE.
16
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I THOUGHT THAT WAS
17
THE PURPOSE OF GOING TO THE CO.
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: HEY, THIS IS
19
STRICTLY A PERSONAL PROBLEM. WORK IT OUT WITH YOUR
20
CLIENT.
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: FAIR ENOUGH.
22
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: DID SOMEBODY
23
SECOND IT?
24
MAYOR PARTYKA: PLEASE, LET'S GET THIS.
25
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
2
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: DID WE MISS
3
ANYTHING ON THE MOTION?
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO.
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: IT'S FOUR HUNDRED.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: CALL THE MOTION, PLEASE.
7
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
8
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
9
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT IS RADIUS.
11
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: YES.
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT IS NOT
13
CIRCUMFERENCE.
14
AYE.
15
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
16
COMMISSIONER MILLER: IS HE STILL HERE?
17
OH, YES, .AYE.
18
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
19
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE, AYE.
20
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, MOTION PASSES. LET
23
ME SAY THIS: THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR LONG-TERM
24
WORK WITH THIS. WE FEEL LIKE WE HAVE GOTTEN
25
SOMETHING.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMUNITY
3
DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT REQUESTS THE COMMISSION
4
CONSIDER A THIRD READING OF ORDINANCE 707 ADOPTING
5
THE PROPOSED TOWN CENTER DISTRICT BOUNDARY AND TOWN
6
CENTER DISTRICT CODE.
7
MR. GARGANESE.
8
MR. GARGANESE: ORDINANCE NUMBER 707, AN
9
ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
10
WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA ESTABLISHING AND ADOPTING A
11
TOWN CENTER DISTRICT CODE PROVIDING FOR REPEAL OF
12
PRIOR INCONSISTENT ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS,
13
PROVIDING FOR ACCEPTABILITY, PROVIDING FOR
14
INCORPORATION AND PROVIDING FOR EFFECTIVE DATE.
15
THERE'S BEEN SOME MINOR. . . COME TECHNICAL
16
AMENDMENTS TO THIS ORDINANCE TO PUT IT INTO PROPER
17
FORM. THERE ARE. CERTAIN FINDINGS THAT ARE MADE
18
CONSISTENT WITH ALL THE PLANNING AND DELIBERATIONS
19
THAT THIS CITY COMMISSION HAS UNDERGONE SINCE THEY
20
STARTED THIS WHOLE TOWN CENTER CONCEPT.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY.
22
CITY MANAGER, ANY COMMENTS, THOUGHTS?
23
MR. MCLEMORE: NO.
24
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
25
MR. GARGANESE: THIS IS THE THIRD -- I'M
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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SORRY. THIS IS THE THIRD READING AND THE FINAL
2
ADOPTION HEARING HAS BEEN SCHEDULED FOR THE APRIL
3
24TH CITY COMMISSION MEETING.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: . OKAY. COMMISSIONERS,
5
ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE I OPEN THIS UP TO PUBLIC
6
INPUT?
7
OKAY. I'LL OPEN THIS UP TO PUBLIC INPUT. IS
8
THERE ANY REQUEST TO SPEAK? YOU ARE PART OF THE
9
INTERESTED PARTY HERE.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. LET ME CLOSE THE
12
PUBLIC INPUT PORTION OF THIS AND BACK TO ONE OF THE
13
PRINCIPLES.
14
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU,
15
MR. MAYOR. MICHAEL GRINDSTAFF, SHUTTS AND BOWEN,
16
20 NORTH ORANGE AVENUE, SUITE 1000, ORLANDO,
17
FLORIDA, 32801. WE REPRESENT THE SCHRIMSHER GROUP.
18
JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, IS THIS INTENDED TO BE
19
THE THIRD AND FINAL READING ON THIS ORDINANCE?
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: NO, SIR.
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE THIRD, FOR
22
CLARIFICATION PURPOSES? IS THIS THE READING THAT
23
WILL GO BACK TO THE LPA TOMORROW NIGHT FOR THEIR
24
PASSAGE OR THEIR REVIEW PRIOR TO ADOPTION?
25
MR. GARGANESE: WE WILL REVIEW THIS ONE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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176
1
MORE TIME TOMORROW NIGHT.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AFTER THIS THIRD
3
READING?
4
MR. GARGANESE: JUST FOR THE RECORD, THEY
5
HAVE ALREADY REVIEWED THE TOWN CENTER DISTRICT
6
CODE.
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE WERE THERE AND WERE
8
CURIOUS AS TO WHY IT'S GOING BACK.
9
MR. GARGANESE: IT'S GOING BACK AS A
10
PACKAGE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ORDINANCE,
11
ORDINANCE NUMBER 2000-10, WHICH THEY ARE GOING TO
12
BE CONSIDERING BASED ON THE ORC REPORT THAT WAS
13
SUBMITTED TO THE CITY BY THE DEPARTMENT OF
14
COMMUNITY AFFAIRS.
15
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. SO THAT WILL BE
16
TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS AGAIN ON THE ORDINANCE SINCE
17
THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE MORE PUBLIC HEARING AFTER
18
THEIR REVIEW, YOUR RECOMMENDATION TOMORROW NIGHT?
19
MR. GARGANESE: YES, ON THE 24TH.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY. MAYOR, JUST
21
CONSISTENT WITH ALL OF OUR OTHER PRESENTATIONS ON
22
THIS TOPIC SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME, IT FEELS
23
LIKE, THE SCHRIMSHER ORGANIZATION IS OPPOSED TO
24
THIS ORDINANCE AND TO WHAT WILL BE THE COMP PLAN
AMENDMENT UNLESS THE COMPANION AGREEMENT ADDRESSING
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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177
1
THE SCHRIMSHER CONCERNS IS PASSED CONCURRENTLY
2
ALONG WITH THAT ORDINANCE.
3
WE ARE ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO THE TOWN CENTER
4
ORDINANCE UNLESS THE COMPANION AGREEMENT IS
5
ADOPTED, AS WE STATED NUMEROUS TIMES, AND WE WOULD
6
LIKE TO RESTATE EVERYTHING WE HAVE EVER STATED ON
7
THE RECORD AT THIS THIRD HEARING.
8
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
9
COMMISSIONER MILLER: CONSIDER IT
10
RESTATED.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. COMMENTS?
12
COMMISSIONER GENNELL?
13
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: MR. MCLEMORE --
14
MR. MCLEMORE: YES, MA'AM.
15
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: WHAT DOES THAT DO
16
WITH ITEM F?
17
MR. MCLEMORE: ITEM F?
18
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: IT'S THE BRIDGE FOR
19
THE CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL.
20
MR. MCLEMORE: OUR UNDERSTANDING IS --AND
21
CHARLES IS STILL HERE -- BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING IS
22
THAT THEY HAVE TO GO FORWARD WITH THIS FROM A
23
PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, BUT WE HAVE A RIGHT TO COME
24
BACK AND AMEND THE ALIGNMENT AT A LATER DATE.
25
I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE ANY CHOICE. CHARLES,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
WILL YOU COME FORWARD?
2
I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE ANY CHOICE ABOUT GOING
3
FORWARD, WHETHER WE SAY OR NOT.
4
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: BUT THEY GO
5
FORWARD UNDER THE OLD PLAN?
6
MR. MCLEMORE: MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY
7
HAVE TO GO FORWARD UNDER THE OLD PLAN, BUT WE CAN
8
COME BACK AND AMEND IT.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WHY DO WE HAVE TO GO
10
FORWARD UNDER THE OLD PLAN, JUST BECAUSE THE NEW
11
ONE HADN'T PASSED, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S NO
12
OBJECTION?
13
MR. MCLEMORE: I THINK THERE'S A TIME
14
LINE THAT THEY HAVE TO APPLY TO MAINTAIN THE
15
FUNDING.
16
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: IF I COULD, AND I
17
DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR CHARLES, BUT MY READING OF
18
THE SITUATION IS THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE
19
PROPERTY ACQUISITION, TITLES AND ALL THAT KIND OF
20
STUFF, AND THE APPRAISALS AND ALL THAT DONE VERY
21
QUICKLY.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: JUNE 30TH, I THINK.
23
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YEAH. AND THE
24
APRIL 24TH MEETING -- IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE HAVE TO
25
WAIT UNTIL THIS THING IS FINALIZED AND THEN DO THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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179
1
PROPERTY ACQUISITION AND THEN ORDER THE APPRAISALS
2
AND EVERYTHING FROM APRIL 30TH -- I MEAN APRIL 24TH
3
-- WHAT DO THEY HAVE? THEY HAVE A MAY SOMETHING
4
DATE IN HERE?
5
IN OTHER WORDS, THE TIME IS JUST TOO TIGHT FOR
6
THEM TO WAIT BEYOND. . . BEYOND NOW. IN OTHER
7
WORDS, I THINK IF TONIGHT WE WERE PASSING IT, AND,
8
CHARLES, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IT WAS STILL TIME
9
FOR US TO GET THE PROPERTIES AND THE APPRAISALS AND
10
EVERYTHING ORGANIZED IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO USE THE
11
NEW ALIGNMENT?
12
AM I RIGHT?
13
MR. CARRINGTON: IS THIS ON? OKAY.
14
IN ORDER TO HAVE THE PROPERTY UNDER CONTROL BY THE
15
STATE, WE WOULD NEED TO TAKE THIS TO THE CITY AND
16
TO THE GOVERNOR AND CABINET AT THEIR MEETING, THE
17
LAST OF JULY MEETING, WHICH I THINK I HAD THAT DATE
18
SOMEWHERE HERE.
19
THEY DO NOT MEET IN AUGUST, SO --
20
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: JULY 25TH.
21
MR. CARRINGTON: IT HAS TO GO TO THE
22
GOVERNOR AND CABINET JULY THE 25TH.
23
IN ESSENCE, THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO BACK
24
AWAY FROM THERE TEN WEEKS, AND THAT ALLOWS ONE
MONTH FOR THE SURVEY AND THE APPRAISAL TO BE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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180
1
COMPLETE AND TO GET ALL THAT INFORMATION TO
2
TALLAHASSEE.
3
I SPOKE TO THE SURVEY CONTRACTOR AND TO THE
4
APPRAISER YESTERDAY AND, OR TODAY, THIS MORNING, AS
5
A MATTER OF FACT, AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT
6
THAT IF WE CAN PROVIDE THEM WITH THE GO-AHEAD,
7
SIGNED CONTRACTS, THAT THEY CAN MEET THAT THIRTY
8
DAY REQUIREMENT.
9
THE WRINKLE THERE AND I THINK THAT THE DILEMMA
10
I HAVE IS I DON'T KNOW WHICH ALIGNMENT TO TELL THEM
11
TO SURVEY AND WHICH ALIGNMENT TO TELL THEM TO
12
APPRAISE BECAUSE WE HAVE GIVEN THE SCHRIMSHER GROUP
13
THE OPTION TO CHOOSE A COUPLE OF ALIGNMENTS IN
14
CONNECTION WITH THAT REALIGNMENT THAT THEY
15
REQUESTED TONIGHT.
16
SO I'M SORT OF AT A DILEMMA ON WHAT TO ORDER
17
TOMORROW, OR TODAY. IT'S ACTUALLY TODAY. IT'S
18
3:00 IN THE MORNING.
19
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, I THOUGHT WE ALREADY
20
CLARIFIED THIS. WE CAN COME IN WITH THIS FINAL
21
INFORMATION AND ASSUME IT'S GOING TO BE --AND SAY
22
IT'S ON THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY WETLAND PARK AND HAVE
23
THAT APPROVED AND STILL HAVE A RIGHT TO COME BACK
24
AND AMEND THAT AT A LATER DATE.
25
ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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181
1
MR. CARRINGTON: NO. WHAT THE STATE MUST
2
HAVE IN ORDER TO MOVE THIS FORWARD IS THEY NEED TO
3
OWN ONE TRAIL RIGHT-OF-WAY OR THE OTHER. RIGHT NOW
4
THEY HAVE THE EXISTING TRAIL ALIGNMENT.
5
IF WE MAKE THAT EXCHANGE AND GET IT APPROVED
6
BY THE GOVERNOR AND CABINET JULY THE 25TH, THEN THE
7
TRAIL CAN GO IN THAT LOCATION. IF WE DON'T, IT'S
8
GOING IN ITS CURRENT LOCATION. THAT'S MY
9
UNDERSTANDING.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT WHAT
11
WE ALL UNDERSTAND?
MR. GRINDSTAFF?
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: MR. MAYOR, JUST TO MAKE
13
A SUGGESTION, ASSUMING THAT WE CAN AMEND, ASSUMING
14
THAT IT CAN BE AMENDED, WHAT'S WRONG WITH GOING
15
WHERE WE ALL THINK IT'S GOING TO BEj AND IF FOR
16
SOME REASON THAT FAILS, YOU CAN COME BACK AND
17
AMEND.
18
I MEAN, THERE'S NOT BEEN ONE QUESTION ABOUT
19
WHERE WE CROSS OVER. NOW, IF THE SUGGESTION IS,
20
WELL, WE DON'T HAVE AN AGREEMENT, UNTIL WE HAVE AN
21
AGREEMENT WITH THE SCHRIMSHER GROUP, THE TRAIL IS
22
GOING TO REMAIN WHERE IT IS AND WE HAVE GOT TO KEEP
23
THAT LEVERAGE ON TOP OF THEIR HEADS, WELL THEN
24
THAT'S ONE THING, SO GO AHEAD AND SURVEY THE
25
EXISTING ALIGNMENT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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182
1
BUT BASED UPON THE PROGRESS THAT WE'VE MADE,
2
WHY DON'T WE SURVEY WHAT WE ALL THINK WE HAVE
3
AGREED UPON AS THE NEW ALIGNMENT WITH THE HOPES
4
THAT WE CAN FINALIZE AN AGREEMENT IN TWO WEEKS.
5
AND I F WE DON'T DO THAT, THEN AMEND AND GO
6
BACK TO THE OLD STUFF, THE EXISTING LOCATION.
7
MR. CARRINGTON: WELL, THE EXISTING
8
LOCATION, THE CURRENT ALIGNMENT, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE
9
SURVEYED.
10
THE STATE ALREADY OWNS THAT AND THE MONEY HAS
11
ALREADY BEEN APPROPRIATED TO BUILD THE BRIDGE WITH
12
THE CURRENT ALIGNMENT.
13
THE CONCEPT HERE IS TO REALIGN THE TRAIL AND
14
PUT THE BRIDGE IN A NEW LOCATION. IN ORDER TO DO
15
THAT, THE STATE HAS TO OWN THAT LAND, THE NEW,
16
REALIGNED PORTION, BY JULY, AND THEY MEET JULY THE
17
25TH.
18
SO WE CAN GO AHEAD AND CONVINCE THE FDOT AND
19
THE COUNTY TO GO AHEAD WITH THAT NEW ALIGNMENT ONCE
20
WE START THE SURVEYS AND APPRAISALS WITH THE
21
ASSUMPTION THAT THEY ARE GOING TO APPROVE THIS ON
22
JULY THE 25TH.
23
BUT IF WE DO NOTHING, THEN THE BRIDGE IS GOING
24
TO BE RIGHT WHERE THE CURRENT ALIGNMENT IS, THAT
25
DIAGONAL CROSSING THROUGH THE SCHRIMSHER PROPERTY.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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183
1
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: EXCUSE ME.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: DO YOU HAVE A
3
CLARIFICATION, COMMISSIONER BLAKE?
4
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: POINT OF ORDER.
5
THIS IS VERY INTERESTING, WHAT THEY ARE TALKING
6
ABOUT, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF IT NEEDS OUR PRESENCE IN
7
ORDER TO HAMMER THIS OUT.
8
WE HAVE COME TO AN AGREEMENT WHERE THE NEW
9
TRAIL WILL BE IN PRINCIPLE, AND I THINK IT'S UP TO
10
STAFF AND THE SCHRIMSHER ORGANIZATION AND THE
11
SURVEYORS TO NAIL IT DOWN.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: WE HAVE A
13
THIRTY-FOUR THOUSAND DOLLAR EXPENDITURE THAT WE ARE
14
APPROVING.
15
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WE HAVE ALREADY DONE
16
THAT --
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: NO.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: -- IN PRINCIPLE.
19
THE SURVEY AND EVERYTHING, YOU MEAN?
20
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YEAH .
21
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THIRTY-FOUR
22
THOUSAND TO PROCEED FORWARD WITH THE SURVEY.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IS THE ISSUE WHERE THE
24
TRAIL IS IN RELATION TO EDGE DRIVE? IS THAT THE
ISSUE?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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184
1
MR. MCLEMORE: WELL, I THINK THAT'S PART
2
OF IT. I THINK IF WE COULD SAY TONIGHT THAT IT'S
3
FIXED ON THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK,
4
THEN WE GO AHEAD AND HAVE IT SURVEYED AND GET IT
5
DONE.
6
IF IT IS OUT THERE IN AGREEMENT THAT IT CAN BE
7
TWO HUNDRED FEET ON THIS SIDE OF THE ROAD, TWO
8
HUNDRED FEET ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD, WHENEVER WE
9
GET AROUND TO IT -- WE CAN'T GET THERE.
10
SO I THINK WHAT CHARLES IS SAYING IS WE HAVE
11
GOT TO MAKE A DECISION TONIGHT TO GET THE SURVEY
12
DONE.
13
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I SEE. I THOUGHT YOU
14
WERE SAYING TO DROP IT LIKE A HOT POTATO AND LEAVE
15
IT IN ITS EXISTING LOCATION AND ALL THAT STUFF.
16
YOU ARE SAYING, WHERE IS THIS AGREED UPON
17
ALIGNMENT, WHERE IS THE CONTEMPLATED ALIGNMENT?
18
WE HAD EITHER ON THE NORTH SIDE OF ONE ROAD,
19
OR ON THE SOUTH SIDE, IT WAS EDGE DRIVE, I THINK.
20
MR. MCLEMORE: YEAH, I THINK THAT'S
21
WHAT'S CAUSING THE PROBLEM. I THINK WE CAN TELL
22
THE SURVEYORS IT IS EITHER ON THE NORTH SIDE OR
23
IT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF EDGE ROAD, AND IT HAS TO
24
BE FIXED IN ORDER TO GET IT DONE RIGHT AWAY.
25
I MEAN, ALL WE SAID IS YOU HAVE GOT TO FIX IT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
.
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1
NOW.
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I'M -- I'M WITH YOU.
3
MR. MCLEMORE: I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT
4
MEANS THAT YOU COULDN'T COME BACK TO AMEND THIS,
5
BUT I THINK THE PURPOSES OF GETTING THIS WORK DONE,
6
WE HAVE GOT TO FIX IT NOW.
7
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT COULD BE A
8
TWO-FOR-ONE SPOT.
9
MR. GRINDSTAFF: ACTUALLY IT WOULD BE,
10
RIGHT. IT WOULD BE AT THAT TIME.
11
NOW, THIS DEADLINE THAT HAPPENS TOMORROW, THAT
12
IS BASED ON THE JULY 25TH, TEN-WEEK REVIEW PERIOD
13
AND THE THIRTY-DAY PERIOD; RIGHT?
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL RIGHT. WE NEED TO
15
GET TO SOME KIND OF POINT HERE. WHAT DO WE NEED TO
16
DO RIGHT NOW?
17
MR. MCLEMORE: I THINK WE SHOULD AGREE TO
18
FIX THE ALIGNMENT OF THE TRAIL RIGHT NOW SO WE GET
19
THE BRIDGE LOCATED SOUTH WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE, OR
20
EAST WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.
21
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: WELL, WE ARE NOT ON
22
THAT ITEM AT THE MOMENT. WE ARE STILL IN THE
23
MIDDLE OF THE PUBLIC HEARING, ITEM A, AND
24
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: THAT'S RIGHT.
25
MAYOR PARTYKA: WELL, WE ARE IN THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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186
1
MIDDLE OF THAT, BUT THIS CAME UP. THIS CAME UP.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR, IF YOU
3
WILL ALLOW ME TO MAKE A MOTION AND DISPENSE WITH
4
THAT ITEM, WE WILL GET TO THE OTHER ONE.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, YOU CAN DO THAT.
6
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I MAKE A MOTION THAT
7
WE PASS ORDINANCE 707, THE THIRD READING, AND MOVE
8
IT ON TO THE FOURTH ADOPTION HEARING, WHICH WILL BE
9
APRIL 24TH, AS ADVERTISED TODAY, INCLUDING THE
10
UPDATES OF THE LATEST REVISION.
11
COMMISSIONER MILLER: SECOND.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
13
MILLER. ANY DISCUSSION BY ANYONE?
14
IF NOT, CALL THE VOTE, PLEASE.
15
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
16
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
17
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
18
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE.
19
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
21
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
22
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
23
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
24
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
25
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. MOTION PASSES.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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1
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: WE ARE NOW GOING OVER TO
3
B UNDER COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, PLANNING
4
DIVISION REQUESTS THE CITY COMMISSION TO HOLD A
5
PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE SECOND READING AND ADOPTION
6
OF ORDINANCE 2000-08 TO ANNEX TWENTY-NINE ACRES OF
7
THE L.D. PLANTE PROPERTY.
8
MR. GARGANESE, COULD YOU READ THAT BY
9
CODE?
10
MR. GARGANESE: ORDINANCE 2000-08, AN
11
ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF
12
WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA PROPOSING THE ANNEX OF REAL
13
PROPERTY CONSTITUTING AN ENCLAVE GENERALLY
14
DESCRIBED AS THE TWENTY-NINE ACRE PORTION OF THE
15
L. D. PLANTE PROPERTY LOCATED WITHIN SEMINOLE
16
COUNTY, FLORIDA AND ON THE WEST SIDE OF TUSCAWILLA
17
ROAD, SOUTH OF MILKY WAY ROAD, AND MORE
18
PARTICULARLY DESCRIBED AS EXHIBIT A ATTACHED
19
HERETO, PROVIDING FOR THE AMENDMENT OF WINTER
20
SPRINGS CHARTER, ARTICLE II BOUNDARIES, TO
21
INCORPORATE THE REAL PROPERTY INTO THE CITY
22
BOUNDARIES, PROVIDING FOR THE FILING OF THE REVISED
23
WINTER SPRINGS CHARTER WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE
24
UPON SAID APPROVAL, PROVIDING FOR REPEAL OF PRIOR
25
INCONSISTENT ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS, PROVIDING
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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188
1
FOR ACCEPTABILITY, PROVIDING FOR EFFECTIVE DATE.
2
MAYOR.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. MR. GRIMMS.
4
MR. GRIMMS: MR. CHAIRMAN, THEY WOULD
5
LIKE TO PUT IN A RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION, PATIO
6
HOMES, AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE ANNEXED INTO THE
7
CITY.
8
ALSO THEY REQUESTED TO BE PULLED INTO THE TOWN
9
CENTER. THAT'S ALL I HAVE.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. I'LL OPEN THIS UP
11
TO PUBLIC INPUT, OPEN THIS UP FOR PUBLIC INPUT, AND
12
I HAVE NO ONE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK, AND I WILL CLOSE
13
PUBLIC INPUT AND OPEN THIS BACK UP.
14
IF ANY ONE OF THE PRINCIPLES WOULD LIKE TO
15
SPEAK, YOU HAVE THAT OPTION. IF NOT, I WILL OPEN
16
THIS BACK UP TO COMMISSION AND THE COMMISSIONERS.
17
I'M LOOKING FOR SOME KIND OF MOTION.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR, I WILL
19
MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE ADOPT 2000-08, TWENTY-NINE
20
ACRES OF L.D. PLANTE PROPERTY.
21
COMMISSIONER: MARTINEZ: SECOND.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
23
MARTINEZ. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? NO? OKAY.
24
CALL THE VOTE.
25
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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189
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COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE.
2
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
3
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
4
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
5
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
6
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
7
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
8
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
9
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: THE MOTION PASSES. THANK
11
YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
12
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
13
MAYOR PARTYKA: UNDER C, COMMUNITY
14
DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, PLANNING DIVISION REQUESTS
15
THE CITY COMMISSION HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE
16
SECOND READING AND CONSIDERATION OF ORDINANCE
17
2000-07 TO REQUIRE A SIX-FOOT WALL BUFFER BETWEEN
18
MULTI-FAMILY AND SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS AND
19
BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND SINGLE FAMILY AND
20
MULTI-FAMILY DEVELOPMENTS.
21
A WAIVER OF THE WALL REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE
22
TOWN CENTER DISTRICT MAY BE APPROVED AS A SPECIAL
23
EXCEPTION.
24
THE WAIVER PROVISION SHALL NOT APPLY TO
25
DEVELOPMENTS LOCATED ON THE EDGE OF THE TOWN CENTER
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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190
1
DISTRICT.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR.
3
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
4
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR, I'D LIKE
5
TO MAKE A MOTION AT THIS TIME TO POSTPONE THE
6
SECOND READING OF ORDINANCE 2000-07 UNTIL APRIL THE
7
24TH, PRESERVING ADVERTISING.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND
9
ON THAT?
10
COMMISSIONER MILLER: SECOND.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. POLL THE
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR, THE
13
REASON FOR THAT MOTION IS TO -- THERE DOES APPEAR
14
TO BE SOME CONFLICT WITH THIS LANGUAGE IN HERE WITH
15
THE TOWN CENTER CODE AND I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE STAFF
16
AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THAT TECHNICAL CORRECTION
17
BEFORE YOU ADOPT IT.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. CALL THE QUESTION.
19
COMMISSIONER GENNELL?
20
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YEAH. I
21
PRE-EXPRESSED, DURING THE WORKSHOP BEFORE YOU GOT
22
HERE, THAT I WASN'T NECESSARILY IN FAVOR OF
23
CHANGING THE VERBIAGE.
24
I THINK WE SHOULD TAKE A POLL OF THE
25
COMMISSION IF STAFF IS INSTRUCTED TO MAKE CHANGES
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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191
1
OR NOT.
2
AND THE REASON THAT I MADE THAT COMMENT WAS
3
BECAUSE IF THEY REMOVE ANY REQUIREMENT AT ALL IN
4
THE TOWN CENTER FOR WALLS, SEPARATING COMMERCIAL
5
FROM RESIDENTIAL, THEN THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR HAVING
6
A GROCERY STORE UP AGAINST, LET'S SAY, TOWN HOUSES
7
WITH ABSOLUTELY NO WALL TO BUFFER SEMIS AND TRASH
8
COMPACTORS AND SO FORTH BETWEEN A RESIDENTIAL USE.
9
AND SO I WOULD FAVOR LEAVING THE WAIVER IN
10
THERE AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE IT, YOU KNOW, TO BE
11
USED EXTENSIVELY BUT PROVIDE SOME PROTECTION FOR
12
THAT.
13
SO I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF CHANGING THE VERBIAGE
14
OF IT.
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THERE'S A MOTION
16
TO POSTPONE. CALL THE VOTE, PLEASE.
17
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
18
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
19
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
20
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE.
21
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
22
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
23
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
24
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: NO.
25
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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192
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COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THIS IS POSTPONED
3
UNTIL APRIL 28TH, OR 24TH, I'M SORRY.
4
COMMISSIONER MILLER: MR. MAYOR.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
6
COMMISSIONER MILLER: I WOULD LIKE TO
7
REQUEST THE COMMISSION CONSIDER TWO ITEMS AND THEN
8
LET'S CALL IT A NIGHT.
9
I THINK WE NEED TO DISCUSS THE TRAIL
10
REALIGNMENT AND I THINK WE NEED TO DISCUSS THE
11
THE. . .
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE LARGE PLAN
13
AMENDMENT?
14
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AND THEN I THINK
15
AFTER THAT, WE OUGHT TO ADJOURN AND GO HOME.
16
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I AGREE, BUT WE HAVE
17
OUR ITEMS.
18
COMMISSIONER MILLER: WELL, I'M GOING TO
19
LEAVE IN FIFTEEN, TWENTY MINUTES. I'M SORRY. I
20
WANT TO PRIORITIZE WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO AT THIS
21
POINT. LET'S GET THE PRIORITY STUFF OUT OF THE
22
WAY, AND OTHERWISE, I HAVE TO GO.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: THERE IS -- WE MIGHT AS
24
WELL DO THIS NOW SO WE KNOW WHERE WE STAND.
25
MOTION TO ADJOURN OR MOTION TO EXTEND? I'LL
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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193
1
TAKE EITHER ONE.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I MAKE A MOTION TO
3
EXTEND THE MEETING TO HANDLE THESE FOUR PUBLIC
4
HEARING ITEMS THAT HAVE BEEN ADVERTISED FOR THIS
5
EVENING, AS WELL AS ITEM F ON THE REGULAR AGENDA,
6
WHICH IS THE AUTHORIZATION TO GO FORWARD WITH THE
7
SURVEY ON THE TRAIL, WHICH IS HERE AT THIS TIME.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND
9
TO THAT?
10
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I'LL SECOND IT.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. CALL THE VOTE,
12
PLEASE.
13
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
15
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
16
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
17
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
18
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE. YEAH, AYE.
19
UNDER PROTEST.
20
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ?
21
COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ: AYE.
22
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
23
MAYOR PARTYKA: IT'S YOUR VOTE. YOU'RE
24
UP.
25
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: I KNOW. IT TAKES
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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194
1
ALL FOUR OF US TO EXTEND THE MEETING?
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: SIMPLE MAJORITY.
3
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: THAT'S RIGHT.
4
MR. GARGANESE, WHAT HAPPENS IF WE -- IF THE PUBLIC
5
HEARINGS GET LEFT DANGLING?
6
MR. GARGANESE: I WOULD HIGHLY SUGGEST
7
THAT YOU HANDLE THE TOWN CENTER.
8
COMMISSIONER MILLER: THAT'S RIGHT. WE
9
HAVE THE PRIORITY ISSUES OUT.
10
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: ALL RIGHT. FINE.
11
MAYOR PARTYKA: MOTION PASSES. SHOW IN
12
THE RECORD THAT COMMISSION MARTINEZ HAD TO LEAVE AT
13
3:00. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: DID HE HAVE A GOOD
15
REASON?
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
17
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: QUICKLY, PLEASE.
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, D, COMMUNITY
19
DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, PLANNING DIVISION REQUESTS
20
THE CITY COMMISSION HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE
21
FIRST READING AND CONSIDERATION OF ORDINANCE
22
2000-10 ADOPTING THE LARGE SCALE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
23
AMENDMENT, LG-CPA-1-99, THAT WOULD CREATE A FUTURE
24
LAND USE MAP DESIGNATION, TOWN CENTER, AND ADD
25
GOAL, OBJECTIVES, AND POLICIES TO THE TEXT OF THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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195
1
LAND USE ELEMENT OF THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN,
2
VOLUME 2 OF 2.
3
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AND MOTION MOVED BY
4
COMMISSIONER MILLER.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: MOTION MOVED BY
6
COMMISSIONER MILLER.
7
DEPUTY MAYOR PARTYKA: SECOND .
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: CALL THE VOTE.
9
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
10
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
11
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
13
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
15
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
16
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
17
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
18
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY, PLEASE READ THAT.
19
MR. GARGANESE: ORDINANCE NUMBER 2000-10,
20
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS,
21
SEMINOLE COUNTY, FLORIDA RELATING TO COMPREHENSIVE
22
PLANNING IN THE CREATION OF THE TOWN CENTER SETTING
23
FORTH AND ADOPTING A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, TEXT
24
AMENDMENT .
25
REFERENCE IS LG-CPA-1-99, WHICH SHALL AMEND
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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196
1
THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BY ADDING GOALS, OBJECTIVES
2
AND POLICIES RELATING TO THE CREATION OF THE CITY
3
OF WINTER SPRINGS TOWN CENTER, PROVIDING FOR THE
4
AMENDMENT OF THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP BY DESIGNATING
5
CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY LOCATED GENERALLY AT AND
6
AROUND THE INTERSECTION OF TUSCAWILLA ROAD AND
7
STATE ROAD 434, AND LEGALLY DESCRIBED THEREIN AS
8
TOWN CENTER, PROVIDING FOR THE REPEAL OF PRIOR
9
INCONSISTENT ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS, PROVIDING
10
FOR ACCEPTABILITY, PROVIDING FOR THE INCORPORATION
11
OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND PROVIDING AN
12
EFFECTIVE DATE AND LEGAL STATUS OF THE PLANNED
13
AMENDMENTS.
14
THIS IS THE FIRST READING. THE ADOPTION
15
HEARING HAD BEEN ADVERTISED AND IS SCHEDULED FOR
16
APRIL 24TH, 2000.
17
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THANK YOU VERY
18
MUCH. ANY COMMENTS? MR. GRIMMS?
19
MR. GRIMMS: NO. I HAVE NO COMMENTS.
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. IF THERE'S NOTHING
21
ELSE, I WOULD LIKE TO GO TO PUBLIC INPUT. I WILL
22
OPEN THIS UP TO PUBLIC INPUT. I SEE THAT THERE'S
23
NO ONE -- NO, YOU ARE PART OF THE INTERESTED
24
PARTIES, OKAY.
25
OKAY. SEEING THERE'S NOTHING FROM THE PUBLIC
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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197
1
INPUT, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC INPUT PORTION OF
2
THIS AND OPEN THIS BACK UP TO DISCUSSION.
3
ONE OF THE PRINCIPLE PARTIES, THE SCHRIMSHER
4
GROUP, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING?
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: COULD YOU CUT AND
6
AND PASTE?
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES. THANK YOU, MR.
8
MAYOR. MY NAME IS MICKEY GRINDSTAFF. I REPRESENT
9
THE SCHRIMSHER GROUP. SHUTTS AND BOWEN, 20 NORTH
10
ORANGE AVENUE, SUITE 1000, ORLANDO, FLORIDA.
11
WE WOULD LIKE TO RESTATE ALL OF OUR COMMENTS
12
EVER MADE ON THIS TOPIC AT THIS TIME WITHOUT HAVING
13
TO GO THROUGH IT, AND HOPEFULLY ANTHONY WILL GIVE
14
US THE NOD ON THAT AND WE WILL NOT HAVE TO GO
15
THROUGH IT AGAIN.
16
I WILL TELL YOU, MR. MAYOR, WE HAVE NOT HAD AN
17
OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE REVISED COMP PLAN. WE
18
GOT HERE TONIGHT AND GOT A COpy OF IT. WE HAVE
19
SEEN THE ORC REPORT AND THE RESPONSE TO THE ORC
20
REPORT.
21
WE WILL BE HERE LATER THIS EVENING FOR THE
22
LPA'S MEETING AT 7:00 AND HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE
23
MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO OVER IT.
24
IN ANY EVENT, AS YOU ALL KNOW, THE SCHRIMSHER
25
GROUP STRONGLY OBJECTS TO THE PASSAGE OF THE TOWN
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
.
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198
1
CENTER COMP PLAN AMENDMENT AND TOWN CENTER ZONING
2
CODE UNLESS AND UNTIL A COMPANION AGREEMENT DEALING
3
WITH ISSUES THAT ARE UNIQUE TO THEM CAN BE ENTERED
4
INTO CONCURRENTLY.
5
A LONG TIME AGO, WHEN MR. GUTHREY WAS HERE, WE
6
AGREED THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN A RECORD
7
OF OUR OBJECTIONS BY JUST TRANSCRIBING AND HAVING
8
THE COURT REPORTER HERE FOR ALL THE PUBLIC
9
HEARINGS.
10
WE HAVE KEPT THE VOLUMES
WE HAVE DONE THAT.
11
GOING. WE WILL HAVE A CURRENT VOLUME AT THE APRIL
12
24TH MEETING TO MAKE THAT RECORD STRAIGHT.
13
THANK YOU, MR. MAYOR.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: VERY GOOD.
15
COMMISSIONERS? COMMISSIONER GENNELL?
16
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: YES, MR. MAYOR,
17
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IN RELATION TO THIS ITEM, THE
18
ORC REPORT, ON PAGE 2 ON THE BOTTOM UNDER COMMENTS,
19
IT SAYS THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE INDICATED THAT
20
THE SITES INCLUDE AND/OR ABUT KNOWN ARCHEOLOGICAL
21
RESOURCES.
22
THE CITY SHOULD SURVEY THE TRACTS TO REVISIT
23
KNOWN SITES AND TO DETERMINE IF ARCHEOLOGICAL OR
24
HISTORIC SITES ARE PRESENT; AND IF SO, THEY NEED TO
25
BE PRESERVED OR PROTECTED BY THE CITY.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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199
1
THAT WAS THE SAME KIND OF A THING THAT WAS ON
2
THE ORC REPORT FOR THE ORIGINAL COMP PLAN, AND WE
3
CALLED THIS UP ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS.
4
THE SCHOOL HAD TO DO AN ARCHEOLOGICAL SURVEY.
5
WE DID ONE ON THE PARK. IT HAS BEEN DONE AROUND.
6
I WANT TO READ TO YOU FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF
7
STATE, CATHERINE HARRIS, DIVISION OF HISTORICAL
8
RESOURCES. THIS IS THE BACKUP MATERIAL THAT CAME
9
ON THE COVER LETTER WITH THE ORC REPORT.
10
OKAY. BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT IN
11
THE TOWN CENTER, THAT WE PAY ATTENTION TO THESE
12
THINGS.
13
AND IF, IN FACT, IT'S NOT IN THERE, THEN IN
14
THIS TIME FRAME IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT. I'M NOT
15
GOING TO READ THE WHOLE LETTER, BUT I'LL JUST TAKE
16
AN EXCERPT.
17
IT'S FROM JANET SNYDER MATTHEWS, DIVISION OF
18
HISTORICAL RESOURCES, SAYING THAT THEY REVIEWED THE
19
PROPOSED TEXT CHANGES REGARDING SCHOOL SITING,
20
FACILITIES, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
21
OUR CURSORY REVIEW SUGGESTS THAT THE PROPOSED
22
TEXT CHANGES SHOULD HAVE NO ADVERSE EFFECT ON
23
HISTORIC RESOURCES.
24
HOWEVER, WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT BOTH THE --
25
BOTH OF THE LAND USE CHANGES, AND THAT'S FOR THE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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COMP PLAN AMENDMENT.
2
BOTH OF THESE TRACTS ABUT KNOWN ARCHEOLOGICAL
3
RESOURCES, AND BESIDES BEING ADJACENT TO KNOWN
4
SITES, RECORDED ARCHEOLOGICAL SITES ARE WITHIN THE
5
TOWN CENTER TRACT.
6
WE RECOMMEND THAT BOTH THESE TRACTS BE
7
SURVEYED TO REVISIT KNOWN SITES, DETERMINE SITE'S
8
SIGNIFICANCE, AND ESTABLISH IF OTHER SITES ARE
9
PRESENT.
10
IF SIGNIFICANT SITES ARE IDENTIFIED, THEY NEED
11
TO BE PRESERVED AND PROTECTED BY THE CITY. IN SUM,
12
IT IS OUR OPINION THAT THE AMENDED COMPREHENSIVE
13
PLAN MEETS, PARENTHESES, ALTHOUGH KNOWN AND
14
POTENTIAL HISTORIC RESOURCES NEED TO BE CAREFULLY
15
CONSIDERED IN THE PLANNING PHASES OF PROPOSED LAND
16
USE CHANGES. END OF PARENTHESES.
17
THE STATE OF FLORIDA REQUIREMENTS, BLAH, BLAH,
18
BLAH.
19
SO I WISH YOU COULD KEEP THAT IN MIND, PLEASE.
20
THANK YOU.
21
MAYOR PARTYKA: THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE
22
FROM ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS? OKAY.
23
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I'D LIKE TO MAKE A
24
MOTION TO MOVE ORDINANCE 2000-10 TO ITS ADOPTION
25
HEARING ON APRIL 24TH OF 2000.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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COMMISSIONER MILLER: SECOND.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA; SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
3
MILLER.
4
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? CALL THE VOTE,
5
PLEASE.
6
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
7
VICE MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
8
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
9
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
10
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
11
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
12
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
13
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
14
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
15
MAYOR PARTYKA: NOW WE ARE GOING ON TO F,
16
WHICH IS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT,
17
INFORMING THE COMMISSION OF THE TIMING OF THE CROSS
18
SEMINOLE TRAIL BRIDGE OVER STATE ROAD 434.
19
CHARLES.
20
MR. CARRINGTON: YES, THANK YOU, MAYOR.
21
MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, YOU WILL REMEMBER THAT
22
IN MARCH OF 1998, CONGRESSMAN MlKA NOTIFIED THE
23
CITY THAT A INTER-MOBILE SURFACE TRANSPORTATION
24
EFFICIENCY ACT GRANT HAD BEEN APPROVED TO BUILD A
25
PEDESTRIAN OVERPASS OVER STATE ROAD 434.
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THAT GRANT IS IN THE AMOUNT OF ONE MILLION,
2
SIX HUNDRED, SEVENTY-EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS. THE
3
LOCAL PLANNING PROGRAM, THE LAP AGREEMENT,
4
UNFORTUNATELY, MUST BE EXECUTED BY JUNE THE 30TH OF
5
THIS YEAR. IT IS CURRENTLY BEING PREPARED ON THE
6
EXISTING OWNED ALIGNMENT.
7
IF THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS WISH TO
8
REALIGN THE TRAIL, WE MUST HAVE THE EXCHANGE
9
COMPLETE AND THE OWNERSHIP IN HAND BY EARLY AUGUST
10
OF 2000.
11
THE GOVERNOR AND CABINET DO NOT MEET IN
12
AUGUST, SO THAT MEANS IT NEEDS TO BE ON THEIR
13
AGENDA JULY THE 25TH, 2000.
14
IN ORDER TO MEET THIS DEADLINE, THE CONTRACTS
15
MUST BE EXECUTED IMMEDIATELY. AND I'M HERE TONIGHT
16
TO ASK THE COMMISSION TO AUTHORIZE THE CITY MANAGER
17
TO SIGN THE NECESSARY CONTRACTS FOR THE
18
APPROPRIATION OF THIRTY-FOUR THOUSAND, SIX HUNDRED,
19
TWENTY-FIVE DOLLARS FROM THE GENERAL FUND BALANCE
20
FOR THE SURVEYS AND APPRAISALS OF THE REALIGNED
21
CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL WITHIN THE TOWN CENTER.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. DISCUSSION BY THE
23
COMMISSIONERS ON ANYTHING? COMMISSIONER BLAKE?
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I'M READY TO MAKE A
25
MOTION.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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1
MAYOR PARTYKA: I THINK THAT'S
2
APPROPRIATE.
3
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: TO AUTHORIZE THE
4
CITY MANAGER TO NEGOTIATE THE CONTRACT FOR
5
SURVEYING APPRAISAL SERVICES FOR THE NEW ALIGNMENT
6
OF CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL TO INCLUDE THE TRAIL BEING
7
LOCATED ON THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK
8
AND THE REMAINDER TO BE ALIGNED ALONG . . . WAS
9
THAT EXHIBIT A?
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: EXHIBIT A.
11
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT EXHIBIT.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF
13
WETLAND PARK IS CORRECT. IT WOULD BE ALONG THE
14
SOUTHERN BOUNDARY OF WETLAND PARK BUT ALONG THE
15
NORTHERN BOUNDARY OF EDGE DRIVE BECAUSE WE HAVE THE
16
RIGHT TO GO --
17
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: EDGE DRIVE
18
DOESN'T EXIST. WETLAND PARK DOES. THAT'S WHY I
19
SUGGESTED
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WELL, EDGE DRIVE WOULD
21
BE AS CLOSE AS PRACTICABLE TO WETLAND PARK, SO IT
22
NEEDS TO BE IN BETWEEN IT, THE THE TRAIL WOULD RUN
23
IN BETWEEN IT.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I DON'T DISAGREE
WITH THAT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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MR. GRINDSTAFF: ANY CONFUSION AS TO THE
2
ALIGNMENT?
3
MR. CARRINGTON: THAT WOULD BE HERE.
4
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YEAH, HERE. BUT OVER
5
HERE, IT GOES ON THE NORTH OF THE ROAD.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: BETWEEN WETLAND PARK
7
AND THE NORTH SIDE OF EDGE DRIVE.
8
MR. GRINDSTAFF: IS THAT OKAY? I THINK
9
EVERYBODY IS IN AGREEMENT THERE.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THAT'S MY MOTION.
11
MR. GRINDSTAFF: OKAY.
12
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: SECOND .
13
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IF YOU LOOK AT A
14
THERE, THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF WETLAND PARK WHERE
15
THE RED AND THE BLUE MEET, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
16
THAT AREA. THE NORTH SIDE OF THE ROAD AS IT HEADS
17
DOWNWARDS TO THE EAST, AND THEN SOUTHERLY,
18
PREDOMINANTLY SOUTHERLY DOWN TO EDGE ROAD OR
19
WHATEVER THAT ROAD IS CALLED.
20
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THAT'S CORRECT.
21
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND IT CONNECTS UP,
22
OF COURSE, TO WHERE THE EXISTING TRAIL WAS.
23
MR. GRINDSTAFF: AND RIGHT HERE.
24
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: ON THE EAST SIDE.
25
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THE OFFICE OF GREENWAYS
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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AND TRAILS INSISTS THAT THAT ., THAT THIS CURVE
2
RIGHT THERE WHERE IT CONNECTS BACK IN AND COMES
3
BACK.
4
MR. CARRINGTON: RIGHT. AND WE NEED TO,
5
FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CITY AND FOR SCHRIMSHER
6
PROPERTIES AND ANYONE ELSE, WE NEED TO BE SURE TO
7
RESERVE EASEMENTS FOR FUTURE CROSSINGS OF ROADWAYS
8
AND UNDERGROUND FOR UTILITIES AND THE WALL UP THERE
9
ON THE UNPAVED.
10
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND I WOULD MAKE
11
THAT AS PART OF THE MOTION THEN.
12
MR. GRINDSTAFF: THOSE EASEMENTS WILL
13
NEED TO BE SHOWN ON THE SURVEY.
14
MR. CARRINGTON: NOT NECESSARILY. THOSE
15
EASEMENTS NEED TO BE NEGOTIATED AT THE TIME YOU
16
MAKE THE EXCHANGE.
17
WHEN YOU ENTER INTO THE FINAL EXCHANGE WITH
18
THE STATE, THEN YOU NEED TO IDENTIFY THOSE
19
CROSSINGS, BUT NOT FOR THE SURVEY. I DON'T THINK
20
WE WILL DO THAT IN THE SURVEY.
21
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES. THE LADY AT THE
22
OFFICE OF GREENWAYS AND TRAILS -- AND I CAN'T THINK
23
OF HER NAME NOW -- NOT ONLY AUTHORIZED IT BUT
24
ENCOURAGED IT, TO HAVE IT UP FRONT SO THAT IT WOULD
25
BE EASIER FOR ALL OF US WHEN THE ROADS GET BUILT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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FOR EXAMPLE, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THERE WILL
2
BE, BUT LET'S JUST SAY THERE'S THIS ONE ROAD RIGHT
3
HERE IN BETWEEN PARKS A AND B.
4
THAT ROAD, WHEN IT CROSSES THE TRAIL, WE NEED
5
TO HAVE A SEGMENT -- WE MAY END UP MOVING THAT
6
EASEMENT A FEW FEET HERE AND THERE. IT MAY BE OFF
7
OF THE EASEMENT A FEW FEET HERE AND THERE.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AS WELL AS THE
9
CROSSING ON THE NEXT ROAD FARTHER DOWN THERE.
10
MR. GRINDSTAFF: RIGHT. HERE, HERE,
11
HERE. IT'S FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT. THIS IS NOT
12
SOME SCHRIMSHER BENEFIT. THIS IS EVERYBODY'S
13
BENEFIT.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. CHARLES?
15
MR. CARRINGTON: WE NEGOTIATED A CONTRACT
16
PAUL AND WITH ROPER SURVEY OR APPRAISAL GROUP, BUT
17
WE DID NOT TALK ABOUT THIS LEVEL OF SPECIFICITY OF
18
ALL THE EASEMENT CROSSINGS AND SO FORTH.
19
MY UNDERSTANDING WAS, AND IT STILL IS, THAT
20
THAT WOULD BE NEGOTIATED WITH THE OFFICE OF
21
GREENWAYS AND TRAILS WHEN THE FINAL EXCHANGE TAKES
22
PLACE, AND THEY NEED TO IDENTIFY THAT BEFORE THE
23
FINAL EXCHANGE TAKES PLACE.
24
IF IT'S A PART OF OUR SURVEY, THEN I'M SURE
25
THE COST IS GOING TO GO UP.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THERE WAS A
2
MOTION. COMMISSIONER BLAKE, WHY DON'T YOU REPEAT
3
THAT MOTION.
4
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE MOTION WAS TO
5
AUTHORIZE THE CITY MANAGER TO ENTER INTO
6
NEGOTIATIONS AND INDEED CONTRACT WITH THE SURVEYING
7
AND APPRAISAL OUTFITS FOR THE NEW ALIGNMENT AS
8
AGREED TO BE THE CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL.
9
COMMISSIONER MILLER: SECOND.
10
MAYOR PARTYKA: SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
11
MILLER.
12
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT WAS
AND I
13
LISTED WHERE IT WAS GOING. DO I NEED TO DO THAT
14
AGAIN?
15
COMMISSIONER MILLER: IF THE COMMISSIONER
16
WOULD JUST SAY THE. . DESIGNATED AS THE PAVED
17
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NO, NO, THEY ARE
18
SURVEYING ALL OF IT.
19
MR. GRINDSTAFF: EVEN THE UNPAVED.
20
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: IT'S ALL BEING
21
SURVEYED, PAVED AND UNPAVED PORTIONS. THE
22
ALIGNMENT AROUND WETLANDS PARK WILL BE ALONG THE
23
EDGE OF WETLANDS PARK, WHICH WOULD BRING THE TRAIL
24
TO THE NORTH OF EDGE DRIVE, PREDOMINANTLY SOUTHERLY
25
ALL THE WAY TO -- WHAT'S THAT ROAD?
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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208
1
COMMISSIONER MILLER: THAT'S WHAT I SAID.
2
I THINK IF YOU DESIGNATE IT AS THE PAVED --
3
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: SOUTHWESTERN-MOST
4
ROAD AS DEPICTED ON FIGURE A.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: ALL WE ARE TRYING TO DO
6
IS CLARIFYING IT. IS THERE AN EASIER WAY TO SAY
7
MR. GRINDSTAFF: I THINK IT USED TO BE
8
CALLED CROSS SEMINOLE TRAIL STREET.
9
COMMISSIONER MILLER: WELL, IT'S MARKED
10
ON EXHIBIT AS THE APPROVED PAVED TRAIL. AND I JUST
11
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE COME TIME TO BUILD,
12
WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GETS READY TO DO THEIR
13
SURVEY, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO DOUBT
14
IN THEIR MIND ABOUT WHERE THE BRIDGE IS GOING TO
15
GO.
16
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. YEAH. ALL WE WANT
17
TO DO IS CLARIFY WHAT THAT'S CALLED, WHATEVER IT
18
IS, SO WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT.
19
IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FROM YOUR STANDPOINT,
20
MR. GARGANESE? IS THAT OKAY?
21
MR. GARGANESE: THE ONLY PART WE HAVE TO
22
CLARIFY IS OFF OF EDGE DRIVE AND SOUTH OF WETLANDS
23
PARK.
24
MR. MCLEMORE: THE ONLY PART BEING
25
RELOCATED IS THAT SECTION ALONE, FROM HERE TO HERE
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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209
1
IS THE ONLY PART THAT'S GOING TO BE RELOCATED.
2
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: NO, SIR, NOT
3
ACCORDING TO THE STATE. ISN'T THIS A SURVEY FOR
4
THE LAND SWAP FOR THE ENTIRE MOVING OF THE TRAIL?
5
CURRENTLY THE TRAIL EXISTS ALONG THE RAIL CORRIDOR
6
ONLY.
7
MR. MCLEMORE: CORRECT.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THIS IS A SURVEY OF
9
ALL THE NEW REPLACEMENT PROPERTY THAT'S BEING
10
SWAPPED FOR THAT RIGHT-OF-WAY. SO THAT'S WHAT
11
NEEDS TO BE SURVEYED, NOT JUST THAT PART ALONG EDGE
12
DRIVE.
13
MR. MCLEMORE: I UNDERSTAND, BUT THE ONLY
14
THING THAT'S BEING CHANGED FROM WHAT WE HAVE
15
ALREADY SUBMITTED IN THE APPLICATION IS THAT
16
SECTION.
17
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: SO ARE YOU SAYING
18
THAT'S ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE SURVEYED, IS THAT --
19
MR. MCLEMORE: NO. THIS IS THE ONLY PART
20
THAT'S BEING --
21
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: YEAH, BUT THAT'S NOT
22
PART -- THIS IS NOT GERMANE TO WHAT WE ARE TRYING
23
TO DO HERE.
24
MR. CARRINGTON: I UNDERSTAND. BUT WHEN
25
IT WAS ON THE SCREEN EARLIER AND WE TALKED ABOUT
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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210
1
IT, YOU GAVE HIM THE OPTION OF BEING ON ONE SIDE OF
2
THE ROAD OR THE OTHER. NOW HE'S SAYING HE WANTS TO
3
BE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE ROAD.
4
I UNDERSTAND THAT PERFECTLY AND THAT'S THE
5
PART WE WILL SURVEY.
6
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY.
7
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AND THAT WAS MY
8
MOTION.
9
MAYOR PARTYKA: SECONDED STILL BY
10
COMMISSIONER MILLER?
11
COMMISSIONER MILLER: YES.
12
MAYOR PARTYKA: ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION?
13
OKAY. CALL THE VOTE.
14
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
15
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
16
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
17
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
18
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
19
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
20
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
21
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
22
MAYOR PARTYKA: THANK YOU.
23
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MY UNDERSTANDING IS
24
WE ARE TO SURVEY IT. YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOOK AT
25
IT, AND SO WE ARE ALL IN AGREEMENT WITH THE SURVEY,
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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211
1
RIGHT?
2
MR. GRINDSTAFF: YES, SIR, WE WILL
3
DEFINITELY LOOK AT IT. WHAT WAS YOUR RESOLUTION ON
4
EASEMENTS AND THE CROSSINGS?
5
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: IT WASN'T'.
6
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: MY UNDERSTANDING
7
RON, ISN'T YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS SURVEY
8
HERE, IF IT'S GOING UP THERE -- IF THEY HAVE BEEN
9
TOLD TO HAVE ANY EASEMENTS IN THOSE SURVEYS, NOW IS
10
THE TIME TO BE DOING IT; CORRECT?
11
MR. MCLEMORE: I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO
12
THAT. I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT IN CONTEST
13
BETWEEN CHARLES AND, YOU KNOW, MICKEY HERE.
14
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: BUT IF I SAT IN
15
THEIR SHOES, I WOULD MAKE SURE I HAD THE EASEMENTS
16
THERE NOW.
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF: PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS
18
IS NOT JUST FOR US.
19
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: I UNDERSTAND IT'S
20
FOR BOTH PARTIES. IT'S OUR ROADS, IT'S OUR
21
EVERYTHING.
22
MR. GRINDSTAFF: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
23
THREE OR FOUR SPOTS HERE. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
24
THREE OR FOUR SPOTS THAT ARE PROBABLY SIXTY FEET
25
WIDE THAT WOULD BE, I WOULD ENVISION, STRAIGHT
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212
1
LINES, YOU KNOW.
2
MR. MCLEMORE: IT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO ME
3
TO DO IT THAT WAY.
4
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. THE MOTION HAS
5
BEEN PASSED ALREADY.
6
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR.
7
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
8
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: THE MOTION HAS BEEN
9
STATED ONE TIME INITIALLY AND THEN WAS ONLY
10
RESTATED FOR CLARIFICATION. IF THE CLERK WERE TO
11
REVIEW THE MOTION INITIALLY, IT INCLUDED THE
12
EASEMENTS.
13
COMMISSIONER MILLER: I THOUGHT SO.
14
MAYOR PARTYKA: IS THAT TRUE, ANDREA,
15
JUST TO MAKE SURE?
16
THE CLERK: I BELIEVE THAT'S WHEN
17
MR. GRINDSTAFF ADDED IN A REFERENCE TO THE
18
EASEMENTS AND COMMISSIONER BLAKE SAID HE WOULD MAKE
19
THAT AS PART HIS MOTION. IS THAT CORRECT?
20
MAYOR PARTYKA: THAT'S RIGHT. IT'S
21
GETTING LATE.
22
ALL RIGHT. IN LIGHT OF THAT, IN LIGHT OF THE
23
EARLIER MOTION, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ENDING THIS
24
MEETING AT THIS POINT, OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO GET A
MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT.
REALTIME REPORTERS, INC.
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213
1
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: MR. MAYOR.
2
MAYOR PARTYKA: YES.
3
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: I WOULD RESPECTFULLY
4
LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN THIS MEETING.
5
MAYOR PARTYKA: OKAY. GIVE ME A SECOND.
6
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: SECOND .
7
COMMISSIONER MILLER: SECOND.
8
MAYOR PARTYKA: CALL THE VOTE.
9
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MILLER.
10
COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE.
11
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MCLEOD.
12
COMMISSIONER MCLEOD: AYE.
13
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER MARTINEZ.
14
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE. HE VOTED
15
ALREADY.
16
THE CLERK: COMMISSIONER BLAKE.
17
COMMISSIONER BLAKE: AYE.
18
THE CLERK: DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL.
19
DEPUTY MAYOR GENNELL: AYE.
20
(WHEREUPON, THE FOREGOING PROCEEDINGS
21
WERE CONCLUDED AT 3:35 AM.)
22
23
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. 25
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF FLORIDA:
COUNTY OF SEMINOLE:
I, JUDITH A. VICK, RPR, CERTIFY THAT I
WAS AUTHORIZED TO AND DID STENOGRAPHICALLY REPORT
THE FOREGOING PROCEEDINGS; AND THAT THE TRANSCRIPT
IS A TRUE RECORD OF THE AFORESAID PROCEEDINGS.
I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT I AM NOT A
RELATIVE, EMPLOYEE, ATTORNEY, OR COUNSEL OF ANY OF
THE PARTIES; NOR AM I A RELATIVE OR EMPLOYEE OF ANY
OF THE PARTIES, ATTORNEYS OR COUNSEL CONNECTED WITH
THE ACTION; NOR AM I FINANCIALLY INTERESTED IN THE
ACTION.
DATED THIS
. _:.., ) 5 t- DAY OF ClfU l
2000.
U. ()\~C
VICK, RPR
NOTARY PUBLIC
STATE OF FLORIDA AT LARGE
COMMISSION #CC607401
EXP I RES: 2/25/0 1 ~",\,~IlIl"""'111.
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