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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008 08 04 Regular 601 Recommendations From Board of Trustees to Consolidation of Winter Springs Fire with Seminole CountyCOMMISSION AGENDA ITEM 601 Consent Informational Public Hearin Re ular X August 4, 2008 MGR. ~~/DEPT. Special Meeting Authorization REQUEST: City Manager requesting Commission to consider advisory recommendations from the Board of Trustees on pension matters related to the consolidation of Winter Springs Fire and Emergency Medical Services with Seminole County. PURPOSE: This agenda item is needed for the City Commission to consider advisory recommendations from the Board of Trustees regarding pension matters related to fire consolidation. CONSIDERATIONS: BACKGROUND Section 3.5.2 of the approved interlocal agreement, consolidating City and County Fire and Emergency Medical Services with Seminole County, provides that the transferred employees shall make an irrevocable election, prior to September 1, 2008, to either remain in the City Pension Plan or joint the Florida State Retirement System (FRS). This provision is consistent with applicable Florida Statutes. Florida Statutes also require that in the occurrence of a consolidation involving unions that the governing units must meet at least once to hear the concerns and requests of the effected collective bargaining unit regarding impacts of consolidation on the employees. The City has fulfilled this statutory requirement. The union placed a number of issues on the table regarding compensation and pension. In accordance with proper procedure, those issues were first brought to the Boart of Trustees for and advisory recommendations to the City Commission. The Board of Trustees considered these issues at its Regular Meeting of July 22, 2008 (continued to July 29, 2008). Following is a summary of those issues and the Board of Trustees associated recommendations: ISSUE #1 Union Request: That the City add a pension benefit, one that is not currently in the City Pension Plan, for employees electing to stay in the City Plan that would provide anon-reduced retirement benefit at age of 52 years with 25 years of service. BOT Recommendation: To deny this request (unanimous). Page 1 of 3 ISSUE #2 Union Request: That the City and County agree to utilize the differential between the FRS contribution rate and the City contribution rate to fund the cost of the 52/25 pension benefit. BOT Recommendation: To deny this request (unanimous). ISSUE #3 Union Request: That the City offers a cash buyout of earned pension benefits based upon the future values of the benefit at retirement. BOT Recommendation: To deny this request (unanimous). ISSUE #4 Union Request: That the City provide for full vesting credit for non-vested or partially vested employees. BOT Recommendation: To approve this request (unanimous) as follows: ^ Those employees that elect to join the Florida Retirement System and are non-vested or partially vested (i.e., less than 7 years of service) in the City Plan as of October 2, 2008 shall be 100% vested in their years of service in the City Plan provided that they continue employee with the County until such time as their combined City/County service equals seven years. ISSUE #4-A Additionally, Issue 4 was expanded during the meeting to consider the following request: That the City add a pension benefit, one that is not currently in the City Pension Plan, that would allow those employees with less than 10 years of service as of October 2, 2008 to be eligible to draw their pension benefit at age 55, rather than 65 as currently provided by the plan. BOT Recommendation: To deny this request (3-2). The opinion of the majority vote was that cost was too much ($430,314 per year in new plan costs) for a benefit that does not currently exist in the plan. ISSUE #5 Union Request: That the City pay for employee financial advice relative to the most advantageous plan alternative. BOT Recommendation: To approve this request (unanimous) as follows: ^ Each employee will be provided a stipend at a maximum amount of $150 per employee on a reimbursement basis, contingent upon the employee providing a release and proof/receipt of service no later that September 15, 2008. Page 2 of 3 FUNDING: Required funding for those issues recommended for approval, #4 & #5, would be as follows: ^ Issue 4 -Approximately $5,500 per year as calculated by the City Actuary. ^ Issue 5 -Approximately $7,050 (47 employees x $150 max each) in one-time cost. RECOMMENDATION: It is recommended that the Commission approve the recommendations of the Board of Trustees concerning consolidation-related pension matters. ATTACHMENTS: 1. Board of Trustees Agenda Item 601, July 22, 2008 Regular Meeting 2. DRAFT BOT Minutes of July 22, 2008 and July 29, 2008. COMMISSION ACTION: Page 3 of 3 ATTACHMENTI City of Winter Springs July 29, 2008 Board of'frustees Meeting Page 1 of 5 BOARD OF TRUSTEES AGENDA ITEM 601 Consent Informational Public Hearin Re ular X July 22, 2008 MGR. /DEPT. Regular Meeting Authorization REQUEST: City Manager requesting the Board of Trustees to provide the City Commission with advisory recommendations on retirement matters related to the consolidation of Winter Springs Fire and Emergency Medical Services with Seminole County. PURPOSE: This agenda item is needed for the Board of Trustees to fulfill its responsibilities in providing advisory recommendations to the Commission regarding pension matters, in this case pension matters related to fire consolidation. CONSIDERATIONS: On June 23, 2008 the City Commission approved an interlocal agreement consolidating City and County Fire and Emergency Medical Services with Seminole County, followed by approval of the agreement on June 24, 2008 by the Seminole County Commission. Section 3.5.2 of the interlocal agreement, consistent with State Statutes, provides that the transferred employees shall make an irrevocable election, prior to September 1, 2008, to either remain in the City Pension Plan or joint the Florida State Retirement System (FRS). Florida Statutes also require that in the occurrence of a consolidation involving unions that the governing units must meet at least once to hear the concerns and requests of the effected collective bargaining unit regarding impacts of consolidation on the employees. The City has fulfilled this statutory requirement. The union placed a number of issues on the table regarding compensation and pension. Following are pension requests made by the union: 1. That the City add a pension benefit, one that is not currently in the City Pension Plan, for employees electing to stay in the City Plan that would provide anon-reduced retirement benefit at age of 52 years with 25 years of service. Page 1 of 5 2. That the City and County agree to utilize the differential between the FRS contribution rate and the City contribution rate to fund the cost of the 52/25 pension benefit. 3. That the City offer a cash buyout of earned pension benefits based upon the future values of the benefit at retirement. 4. That the City provide for full vesting credit for non or partially vested employees. 5. That the City par for employee financial advice relative to the most advantageous plan alternative. FRS Benefits: According to the provisions of the interlocal agreement, for those employees electing to transfer to FRS, their FRS benefits will begin on the day of transfer, October 2, 2008. Their benefit in the Winter Springs plan will be frozen. The County will pay 100% of the FRS contribution rate for employees transferring to FRS and 100% of the contribution rate for employees electing to stay in the City pension plan up to the established FRS rate of contribution. City employees transferring to FRS will be fully vested in the FRS plan in six years. City employees electing to transfer to FRS will receive the following benefits not provided by the City pension plan. 1. 3% annual cost of living raise. 2. Post-retirement health care supplement based upon years of service. 3. Improved disability coverage. 4. Unreduced retirement benefit with 25 years of service, regardless of age. In addition, these employees will no longer have to pay a 3% contribution rate they pay in the Winter Springs plan, resulting in a 3% "take-home" pay gain. Employees electing to stay in the Winter Springs plan will not receive these additional benefits except for the 3% gain in pay that will result from the County paying 100% of their contribution rate. Union Request "1" -Addition of anon-reduced retirement aEe 52 with 25 years of service. The union concludes that an estimated 16 firemen will be unfairly impacted due to being stranded in the Winter Springs' plan. As we understand it, the rational for being unfairly stranded in the plan is based upon the fact that they are too old to work the additional 10 years required to fully vest in the FRS. Response • The City on several occasions has advised the union that only six years of service is required to vest in the FRS, not 10. • Adding additional benefits to the plan in this situation is highly unusual. The employees have a choice to select which plan they believe will be in their best interest. • The cost to the City to add this benefit will be substantial. • Age 55 is a normal retirement age for firefighters. Based upon our analysis, it appears that anyone under the age of 50 years would be able to fully vest in FRS at age 55. Page 2 of 5 If paid by the remaining plan population, which would be highly unfair to those remaining employees to pay the cost of the benefit they cannot get, the additional cost would be approximately $234,000 or a 2.3% increase in contributions system-wide for the first year. Over the seven year period to amortize the benefit for this select group of employees, the cost would be approximately 2 million dollars. If paid for by the select group of employees the cost would result in a 23.6% increase in their contribution rates. Union Request " 2" -Utilization of the differential between the FRS contribution rate and the City plan contribution rate to paV for the 52/25 non reduced benefit. As we understand it, the union believes that sufficient funds are available in the difference between the FRS contribution rate and the City contribution rate to pay for the 52/25 non reduced benefit. Additionally, union representatives have voiced that they are entitled to that differential for their benefit. Response: The FRS rate for FY 09 will be 19.76%, representing a 0.44% differential over the FY 08 rate of 20.2%. The Winter Springs rate is 16.5%. The differential between the two rates is currently 3.26%. There are three problems with the concept of utilizing the differential between the FRS rate and the City rate for increased benefits. 1. Under the terms of the interlocal agreement, the County will pay no more than the FRS contribution rate level for those employees that elect to stay in the City plan. If the FRS contribution rate falls below the City contribution rate in future years, the City would be responsible for the difference. 2. The differential between the FRS and City rates are dynamic, not static, the FRS rates changes annually based upon annual actuarial evaluation of the plan. As seen, the FRS rate for FY 09 is actually coming down. Over the past seven years, the FRS Special Risk Class rate has been as low as 16.01%. The same is true for the Winter Springs plan. The contribution rate for the City must be adjusted when necessary to maintain the actuarial soundness of the plan. 3. As shown below, the differential is currently not sufficient to even pay for the incremental cost of a 52/25 benefit for either all or the 16 selected firefighters. All 16 Selected Firefi hg ters Firefi hg tern New Funding Required for 52/25 Benefit $578,000 $234,000 FRS Total Contribution Amount (19.76%) 417,000 196,000 Surplus (Deficit) ($161,000) ($38,000) In the alternative, we believe any delta should be utilized to pay down the firefighters past service liability, in that their compensation, for those that choose to go to FRS, would now be used to fund the County's (FRS) plan and not the City plan. Also, we believe we should further use this delta to pay off this past service liability over a shorter period of time. Page 3 of 5 Union Request " 3" -Cash buy out of accrued benefits at the future normal retirement aye value. As we understand it, the union believes that the cash out of the future benefit of the plan at normal retirement age would allow employees to utilize their cash to purchase prior years service in the FRS thus helping them to attain a more beneficial retirement benefit. Response• Cash out provisions can be accomplished in four ways. 1. 100% of the future normal retirement age accrued value. 2. 100% of the present value of the accrued benefit on the day of the cash out. 3. Funded value of the future accrued value of normal retirement. 4. Funded value of the present value of the benefits on the day of the cash out. The Winter Springs pension plan like most governmental plans is not 100% funded. As of April 30, 2008, the Winter Springs retirement plan is approximately 68% funded due to reduced earnings in equity investments associated with the down turn in the economy. Therefore, the cash out of benefits at 100% of accrued value is not possible from retirement benefits. The only way that this could be accomplished would be for the City to provide cash infusion into the plan, which is highly unlikely in today's economic realities. Secondly, it is important to understand that the normal retirement age for funding purposes is age 60 in the City plan. As designed, the age 55 with 10 years of service retirement benefit is paid for through the assumption that most employees will choose to retire at age 60 to pay for those that retire at age 55 with 10 years of service. Therefore, in order to provide for a voluntary cash payout that would not bankrupt the plan, the cash pay out amount would have to be below the funded present value of the accrued benefit resulting in amounts of cash that would not purchase many years of past service with FRS. Finally, it needs to be understood that the purchase of prior years of service with FRS can only be purchased at a 2% annual rate as opposed to the 3% annual rate provided in the City's plan; and that the maximum that can be purchased is 5 years. Union Request "4" -City payinE for non vested time of employees transferring to FRS. As we understand it, the union believes the City should pay for the cost of upgrading non and partially vested time to the equivalent of full vested service in the Winter Springs plan since this decision is being imposed upon the employees. Response• ^ This can be accomplished at a minimal cost of $5.500 per year. ^ In addition to the service time earned at the City, employees would be required to work sufficient time at the County in order to meet the vesting requirements as established under the City plan, i.e., a combined City-County total of 7 years. Page 4 of 5 Union Request "5" -City grovidin~ firemen with a monetary contribution to qay for retirement advice. The union believes the City should pay a financial advisor to advise employees as to the most advantageous retirement plan choice, since they do not possess these professional skills. Resgonse• None. FUNDING: Increased cost for any benefit change to the City's plan would ostensibly require increased contributions. RECOMMENDATION: ATTACHMENTS: 1. FRS Summary Plan Description (See Page 4). 2. Firemen City & FRS Non-Reduced Benefit Retirement Schedule COMMISSION ACTION: Page 5 of 5 ATTACHMENT 2 CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES Q REGULAR MEETING JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) CALL TO ORDER The Board of Trustees Regular Meeting of Tuesday, July 22, 2008 (Rescheduled from July 29, 2008) was called to Order at 6:33 p.m. by Chairman A. Mark Sardo in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Chairman A. Mark Sardo, present Vice Chairman Michael S. Blake, present Board Member Maria Fair, present Board Member David W. McLeod, present Board Member Vernon Rozelle, Jr., present Chairman Sardo led the Pledge of Allegiance. A moment of silence followed. Next, Chairman Sardo inquired if there were any Agenda Changes. Mr. Kevin Smith, Director, General Services Department remarked that there were none. INFORMATIONAL AGENDA INFORMATIONAL 100. General Services Department General Services Director Providing A Summary Of Pension-Related Expenditures For The Quarter Ended June 30, 2008. Mr. Smith introduced this Agenda Item to the Board. CONSENT AGENDA CONSENT 200. Office Of The City Clerk Approval Of The Apri129, 2008 Regular Meeting Minutes. Chairman Sardo asked, "Do we have a Motion to Approve the Minutes?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING-JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 2 OF 18 "MOVE APPROVAL." MOTION BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE. DISCUSSION. WITH CONSENSUS OF THE 0 ADVISORY BOARD, THE MOTION WAS APPROVED. MOTION CARRIED. • • AGENDA NOTE: THE FOLLOWING AGENDA ITEMS WERE DISCUSSED NEXT, IN THE ORDER DOCUMENTED, FOLLOWED BY THE REST OF THE AGENDA. • • REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. General Services Department Presentation Of Investment Review Report For The Quarter Ended June 30, 2008. Mr. David West, CFA, Bogdahn Consulting, LLC, 340 West Central Avenue, Suite 300, Winter Haven, Florida: introduced this Agenda Item to the Board stating, "This is a preliminary Report, if you will. We bumped up the regularly scheduled Pension Meeting fairly substantially. All of our Manager universes are not completely populated at this time so we're actually not in a position to give you a full Report. However, we can certainly give you some accurate numbers and results for the period." Much discussion. Regarding Snow Capital Management, LP, Mr. West said, "We will continue to track that." Mr. West added, "Hopefully everyone has been receiving the -Attribution Report on Snow [Capital Management, LP]. We've been sending that out monthly." Discussion. Mr. West continued, "Our position here is to keep them under close scrutiny and recognize the -bet that we have on. We would like - at our next Regular Meeting to maybe revisit this particular Manager; this approach and maybe have - a philosophical discussion on the quatrain nature of this Manager and the current experience that we've had." Continuing, Mr. West said, "So, we'd like to put that - as a discussion item on the Agenda and just to make sure we're focused on that Manager and -visit that strategy again." Discussion continued. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 3 OF 18 Regarding Voyageur Asset Management, Inc., Mr. West commented, "We're still fully 0 committed; we have no issues. Obviously, they've -doubled up in their position. We're comfortable with their strategy." Much discussion. Mr. West mentioned, "We will have the full Report, probably we'll be in a position to generate that, I believe, probably about the end of next week." Mr. West continued, "We will regenerate the Report; make that available and we -are going to incorporate our bullet summary. We circulated a -new format for that. Hopefully, that's acceptable for everyone; kind of highlights what worked, what didn't. And that is going to be incorporated in the printed Report so that when that - is sent out to you on a regular schedule, in advance, that -will be part of the book. We won't be doing that as a separate follow-up, that way for sure you get it." Regarding the Core Fixed Income Portfolio, Board Member Maria Fair asked Mr. West, "Is any of the percentage in foreign Bonds or is it all in U.S. [United States] domestic bonds?" Mr. West replied, "There's a very small percentage and Iwill -pull the holdings for you; I'll pull the Manager's Report so you can have - a full look. There is a small position of Yankee Bonds, but for the most part the portfolio is, I believe, it's about ninety-seven percent (97%) domestic. Don't hold me to the number; I'll get you the number." Discussion. Regarding the current portfolio, Chairman Sardo asked Mr. West, "Do we stay with what we have now? What - do we do? What is your recommendation?" Mr. West replied, "The first part, from the Asset Allocation standpoint, at the moment, we would recommend holding fast. We would like to see the credit markets continue to reform." Mr. West continued, "If we see a continuation of that, hopefully what is going to be a trend, then we'll come forward with a recommendation to actually rebalance the portfolio." Chairman Sardo asked, "What is the drop dead date on that when you -make a decision?" Mr. West responded by saying, "I don't think we could put a timeline on it. It's going to be a function of what -transpired; the -degree of tightening of spreads, and the -general degree of confidence in the Credit Markets." Mr. West continued, "We'll be watching the -general domestic Bond Market and as -hopefully continue to outperform, I think we would be in a position to be comfortable to say let's rebalance the portfolio and place additional emphasis on Equities. At least get us up to the target. We're operating slightly below the target right now in the Investment Policy Statement." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA H DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 4 OF 18 Continuing, Mr. West mentioned, "I think we're in a position to do some dollar cost " Q averaging, but - we would like to see the Bond Market behaving first. Mr. West added, "So, that would be the Asset Allocation recommendation. We'll be following that and we'll certainly bring that forward." Regarding the Asset Allocation and rebalancing the Portfolio, Vice Chairman Michael S. Blake asked, "If I heard you correctly, you are not recommending that yet?" Mr. West replied, "Correct." Vice Chairman Blake continued, "Another quarter? Perhaps earlier if need be or do you have a time thought on that?" Mr. West responded by saying, "Ideally, if we had the opportunity, we'd get one (1) more Quarter behind us -and ideally we have the opportunity to do that next Quarter." Further discussion. Continuing, Mr. West remarked, "The second part of the question would be to address the Manager Allocations; how the Managers are doing in the Portfolio -we're very confident and very comfortable with the International strategy that's in play there with the Voyageur [Asset Management, Inc.]/Polaris [Capital Management, LLC] product. We would recommend holding fast to that. As far as Snow [Capital Management, LP] goes, as -previously requested, we'd like to have a philosophical discussion with -Snow [Capital Management, LP]. We want to hold the course with them for the time being, given how they positioned and what's transpired. But we would like to have -not a performance related discussion." Regarding Lateef Investment Management, LP, Mr. West stated, "We'll continue to monitor Lateef [Investment Management, LP], but we think -they're following the strategy as -proposed, as discussed. They are in sectors that have done very well. Some of the stocks continue to deliver good earnings. We would like to continue to closely follow Lateef [Investment Management, LP]. It is a concentrated Manager, so that requires, I think, a little more focus to make sure that that group stays on track. So, as far as the Manager address, a conversation, philosophical look at Snow [Capital Management, LP] and -maybe some other types of Managers in the Value space, would really be the only address. But, stay the course for the time being and again -we'd also like to do that at -the next Quarter." Brief discussion. Board Member Fair asked, "At what point would you consider adding, just looking at the International in the Investment Policy Statement, it can go up to twenty-five percent (25%) International and it is currently at around 13.68. And due to the value of the dollar it would seem that at some point you would want to increase your percentage allocation in International Equity." Mr. West replied, "Right, that's - a great question; excellent observation -perhaps that would be another item that we could take a philosophical look at -next Quarter's Meeting." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 5 OF l8 On the discussion of foreign Bonds, Mr. West commented, "Our recommendation is to minimize our use of International Fixed Income and to extend that capital in International Equities where, arguably, we have a -higher potential rate of return given the -risk profile of -the two (2) investments. So, that's the reason for the emphasis in Equities over fixed income." Mr. West continued, "Right now, we would be a little concerned, and delighted to have this conversation at the next Meeting; we'd be a little bit concerned about adding to our International Portfolio at this juncture." Much discussion. Chairman Sardo called a Recess at 7:14 p.m. The Regular Meeting was called back to Order at 7:23 p. m. REGULAR 601. Office Of The City Manager Requesting The Board Of Trustees To Provide The City Commission With Advisory Recommendations On Retirement Matters Related To The Consolidation Of Winter Springs Fire And Emergency Medical Services With Seminole County. Mr. Smith briefly addressed the Board regarding this Agenda Item. Vice Chairman Blake asked those in the audience if they had a copy of Agenda Item Regular `601'? Vice Chairman Blake asked Mr. Smith, "Why don't they have a copy of this?" Mr. Smith replied, "It was forwarded to the Chief" Mr. Jeff McCall, Winter Springs Professional Firefighters, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke to the Board about several Meetings that he had with the City. Vice Chairman Blake asked, "The Agenda Item `601', did you have access or do you have a copy of that?" Mr. McCall replied, "I don't have a copy of that, no." Mr. McCall continued, "I don't know what he's going to present." Vice Chairman Blake stated, "Mr. Chairman, in the interest of just trying to have a better and more effective open discussion, I would request a recess of some number of minutes that it would take to run off -five (5) copies of Agenda Item `601' and -just give it to Jeff (McCall) and he could distribute it how he sees best fit." Tapc USide B Chairman Sardo called a Recess at 7.•28 p. m. The Regular Meeting was called back to Order at 7: 36 p. m. F- LL. a 0 Mr. Smith addressed the Board regarding Union Requests "1" and " 2". CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 6 OF 18 Much discussion. Regarding those employees who are not fully vested, Board Member David W. McLeod asked, "Do we have a dollar value on all seventeen (17) people - do we know what that dollar value is?" Ms. Sandy R. Turner, CPC, QPA, Retirement Plan Specialists, Inc., 81 S Eyrie Drive, Suite 4, Oviedo, Florida: said, "There wasn't a big difference considering the scope of this thing. The present value of the non-vested portion was relatively small. Like thirty- five (35) -forty-thousand dollars ($40,000.00) at most." Discussion continued. Chairman Sardo opened the "Public Input" portion of the Agenda Item. Mr. Jeff McCall, Winter Springs Professional Firefighters, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke to the Board Members about those employees who were not fully vested in the City of Winter Springs Defined Benefit Plan. Mr. McCall reiterated on Union Request "1" saying, "For a four (4) year guy, he would get four (4) years times his time..." Mr. McCall continued, "Not at a hundred percent (100%) Vesting times seven (7) years." Much discussion ensued with Mr. McCall. Regarding his Meeting with Florida Retirement System, Mr. McCall mentioned, "There maybe a way to participate in Winter Springs Plan, obtain your ten (10) years and then at that point, when you -qualify for the early Retirement, you have some type of break in Service regarding Winter Springs Plan and FRS (Florida Retirement System) going forward. And than have them be able to participate in FRS (Florida Retirement System) and work on their Vesting and the benefits regarding FRS (Florida Retirement System). There was aquestion -whether that was possible. We have not heard back." Vice Chairman Blake said, "That's my question, did you receive a response from that?" Mr. McCall replied, "No, Sir." Vice Chairman Blake asked, "Do we know anything about that?" Mr. Smith answered, "As Jeff (McCall) stated, the issue was brought up and the Public Safety Director from Seminole County indicated that he would look into the issue and get a response back and I have not heard back from him either about that issue." Discussion continued. Tape 2/Side A CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 7 OF 18 Mr. Corey Green, Winter Springs Fire Department: thanked the Board for the service 0 they had provided in the past; that he was in favor of Vesting those employees who are not yet fully Vested; the delta; and encouraged the Board to support the stipend for financial advice. Mr. Edward Forrest, Winter Springs Fire Department: told the Board he still could not make a decision for himself; asked the Board to meet with the Firefighters at a Workshop to discuss these matters further; and mentioned he thought this Meeting would be more of a discussion. Chairman Sardo closed the "Public Input" portion of the Agenda Item. Discussion continued. City Manager Ronald W. McLemore stated, "It's just important that -all of you understand that the impairment issue, I understand the way they're using it, but from a Statutory provision and really from a realistic provision, there's no impairment involved here when they're given a decision. We've met all our Statutory and legal requirements on that one." Further discussion. Regarding Union Request "4", Vice Chairman Blake noted, "I think it is to come up with some number. Number that sounds good to me is about a hundred and fifty dollars ($150.00); that would be reimbursable to - an affected employee upon them tendering a receipt not to exceed - it could be less, but up to a hundred and fifty dollars ($150.00); which the City could then reimburse them to receive independent financial advice to help them with this decision." Vice Chairman Blake continued, "The key there is that it is just a reimbursement; it is not directed. The individual can choose whomever they decide to go to seek professional advice and they will pay for it. They would bring a receipt back which the City could then reimburse them for. By doing it that way, the City is merely providing a way for them to receive their advice, on their own; it would be independent advice." Manager McLemore mentioned, "Our Attorneys may request some type of paper, declaration to that effect..." Vice Chairman Blake said, "...A Release..." City Manager McLemore continued, "...Right." Further discussion. "I WILL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE RECOMMEND TO THE COMMISSION TO NOT CHANGE THE RETIREMENT AGE ON THE PENSION PLAN AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS FOR ALL EMPLOYEES." MOTION BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER McLEOD. DISCUSSION. CITY OF W[NTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR M FETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 8 OF l8 VOTE: VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Brief discussion. "I THINK I JUST WOULD MAKE A VERY CLEAR STATEMENT TO THE COMMISSION -THAT WE DON'T RECOMMEND [UNION REQUEST] "1" OR [UNION REQUEST] " 2" - NO." MOTION BY BOARD MEMBER McLEOD. SECONDED BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. DISCUSSION. CHAIRMAN SARDO REITERATED, "MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT WE DO NOT RECOMMEND [UNION REQUEST] "1" OR [UNION REQUEST] " 2"." VOTE: BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Discussion. "I WILL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND `NO' ON [UNION REQUEST] " 3"; TOO COSTLY AND NO IDEA WHERE YOU ARE GOING." MOTION BY BOARD MEMBER McLEOD. SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE. DISCUSSION. VOTE: BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 9 OF 18 "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT THE CITY COMMISSION OR THE CITY VEST THE TIME FOR THE EMPLOYEES TRANSFERRED - TO FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM)." MOTION BY BOARD MEMBER McLEOD. CHAIRMAN SARDO REITERATED, "MAKING IT VERY CLEAR, AGAIN..." BOARD MEMBER McLEOD STATED, "...THAT IT IS A `YES'." SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE. DISCUSSION. VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE STATED, "I ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE OF ISSUES WITH -THIS ITEM. SOME MAYBE MORE INVOLVED, ACTUALLY. I THINK IT IS A REAL ISSUE FOR - AN EMPLOYEE WHO HAS BEEN HERE ONLY FOUR (4) YEARS AND - LEAVES. THEY MAYBE PERHAPS UNFAIRLY, ARTIFICALLY TIED TO THE CITY PLAN AND NOT BE ABLE TO - MAKE A FAIR DECISION OF WHICH WAY TO GO BECAUSE OF THAT VESTING ISSUE. THAT COULD BE ALLEVIATED BY ALLOWING THE CITY TO CREDIT TIME WORKED IN THE FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) PLAN, IF THEY DID CONVERT TO THE FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) PLAN, AND UTILIZE THAT TO COUNT FOR ULTIMATE VESTING HERE AT THE CITY. AND THAT ALSO WOULD TAKE CARE OF THE TEN (10) YEAR ISSUE. NOW, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT KIND OF MATH HAS BEEN DONE ON THE TEN (10) YEAR ISSUE AND RECEIVING THE BENEFIT AT FIFTY-FIVE (55). THERE IS AN EMPLOYEE THAT HAS WORKED HERE IN OUR SYSTEM FOR FOUR (4) YEARS; THEY OPT OUT OF OUR PROGRAM AND GO TO THE COUNTY, THE FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) PROGRAM; WE GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR TIME WORKED AT THE COUNTY HERE FOR VESTING PURPOSES. WHAT HAPPENS TO THE NUMBERS IF WE GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR TEN (10) YEARS IN THE COUNTY PLAN, ALLOWING THEM TO RECEIVE A BENEFIT FROM THE CITY PLAN AT AGE FIFTY-FIVE (55)? THAT IS MY QUESTION. HAVE YOU DONE THAT MATH?" MANAGER McLEMORE REPLIED, "NO." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE ASKED, "HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO DO THAT MATH?" MS. TURNER REPLIED, "PROBABLY A COUPLE OF DAYS." H ti Q O DISCUSSION. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 10 OF l8 VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE COMMENTED, "IT IS REALLY ROLLING TWO (2) ISSUES INTO -TOGETHER. IT IS NOT JUST THE VESTING ISSUE OF AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS BEEN HERE FOR FOUR (4) YEARS AND OPTS FOR THE COUNTY PLAN WHO OUGHT TO GET, IN MY OPINION, OUGHT TO RECEIVE -CREDIT FOR TIME WORKED AT THE COUNTY LEVEL FOR VESTING PURPOSES, RIGHT? SOMEBODY WORKS WITH THE COUNTY FOR TWO (2) MORE YEARS, THEY OUGHT TO GET CREDIT FOR WORKING SIX (6) YEARS IN OUR PLAN, NOT SEVEN (7) YEARS." BRIEF DISCUSSION CONTINUED. CONTINUING, VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE ASKED, "WHAT HAPPENS IF WE ALLOW THIS PERSON, WHO HAS BEEN IN OUR PLAN FOR FOUR (4) YEARS AND GOES AND WORKS AT THE COUNTY FOR ANOTHER SEVEN (7) YEARS IN THE FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) PLAN WHO WANTS TO RECEIVE A BENEFIT BEGINNING AT AGE FIFTY-FIVE (55)? WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF THAT CALCULATION BOTH GRANTING THEM VESTING AT A HUNDRED PERCENT (100%) FOR TIME SERVED AT THE COUNTY, AS WELL AS THE TEN (10) YEAR TIME WORKED IN ORDER TO GET THE RETIREMENT BENEFIT STARTING AT FIFTY-FIVE (55) AS OPPOSED TO SIXTY-FIVE (65)?" DISCUSSION CONTINUED. MS. TURNER SAID, "THE INCREASE IN COST FOR VESTING IS NOTHING BECAUSE IT WOULD BE COST FOR FULL BENEFIT. YOU ASSUME EVERYBODY'S GOING TO BE A HUNDRED PERCENT (100%) VESTED WHEN THEY GET THERE." MS. TURNER CONTINUED, "SO, AT FIFTY- FIVE (55) YOU'RE GOING TO NEED AS OPPOSED TO SIXTY-FIVE (65), NOW YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A DIFFERENT CALCULATION." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE ASKED, "HOW MANY PEOPLE DO WE HAVE WITH LESS THAN TEN (10) YEARS OF SERVICE OF AS OF -OCTOBER 2NDq» DISCUSSION CONTINUED. Q D VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE MENTIONED, "THE MOTION DID NOT INCLUDE THE TIME SERVED." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE I I OF 18 MS. TURNER SAID, "I'M DOING FIFTY-FIVE (55) AND TEN (10) ASSUMING THEY STAY TO FIFTY-FIVE (55) AND TEN (10) HERE AND HAVE ALL THE YEARS HERE; WHICH YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING IS ALL THEY'RE GOING TO GET IS TEN (10) YEARS OF SERVICE AND THEN -THEY GET PAID OFF BY FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM)." CONTINUING, VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE SAID, "BUT IT IS NOT A TEN (10) YEAR WORTH OF BENEFITS -THE BENEFIT IS -HOWEVER MANY YEARS THEY HAVE..." MS. TURNER AGREED, "...CORRECT..." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE CONTINUED, "...THE DELTA IS ONLY THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO LEAVE OUR PLAN AND GO TO THE FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) PLAN..." MS. TURNER ADDED, "...CORRECT. NOW WE HAVEN'T CALCULATED THOSE TWENTY-SIX (26) AS IF THEY -STAY ONCE THEY GOT THEIR TEN (10) YEARS IN OR WHAT THEIR COST WOULD BE - IF WE FUNDED THEM AT FIFTY-FIVE (55) AND TEN (10) AND THEN STOPPED UNDER OUR PORTION OF THE PLAN AND AT THE SAME TIME, I GUESS YOU'RE SAYING, THEY WOULD BE EARNING FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) AS WELL, CORRECT?" VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE SAID, "NO, THEY WOULD NOT RECEIVE ANY ADDITIONAL EARNINGS CREDIT. THE ONLY THING THEY WOULD RECEIVE..." Ms. Camille Walker, Retirement Benefit Administrator, Retirement Plan Specialists, Inc., 81 S Eyrie Drive, Suite 4, Oviedo, Florida: said, "The only thing they want is the ability to draw at f fty-five (55.) They're not getting an increase benefit. So, I think what we have to do is the cost would be an additional ten (10) years of benefit between fifty-five (55) and sixty-five (65). We have to cost that out." Ms. Walker continued, "Yes, for the benefit that they've accrued to date.'" Vice Chairman Blake said, "Right. And only for those individuals who leave the plan." Next, Ms. Walker reiterated, "And we're doing this for the people who have less than seven (7) years; they're not fully vested and that's seventeen (17)." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE SAID, "NO, THE LESS THAN SEVEN (7) HAS ALMOST BEEN ANSWERED." E- Q D DISCUSSION. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING-JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 12 OF 18 VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE ASKED, "HAVE YOU DONE ANY MATH TO LOOK AT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE NUMBERS IF THE COUNTY WERE TO ALLOW, AND THE CITY WERE TO ALSO ALLOW, THE INDIVIDUALS TO STAY IN THE CITY PLAN PAST THE SEPTEMBER 1sT [2008] ELECTION DATE? HAVE A BREAK IN THE SERVICE -WHILE AT THE COUNTY, AND THEN MOVE TO THE FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) AT A LATER DATE?" MS. TURNER REPLIED, "NO. THAT WASN'T EVEN SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AS A POSSIBLITY AT THAT TIME." FURTHER DISCUSSION. VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE SAID, "I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL SCENARIOS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE NUMBERS FOR YET AND THAT CONCERNS ME BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WE HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMISSION THAT I THINK THEY CAN RELY ON AND KNOW THAT THE MATH THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE STADDLED WITH HAS A CHANCE OF BEING REAL." MS. TURNER REMARKED, "WE DID THE SCENARIOS THAT WE WERE ASKED TO DO." DISCUSSION CONTINUED. VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE STATED, "I THINK THAT -THERE ARE A COUPLE OF UNDERLYING QUESTIONS THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT - THIS TEN (10) YEAR ISSUE -THE BREAK IN SERVICE ISSUE; WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN STAY HERE, HAVE A BREAK IN SERVICE AND THEN MOVE OVER TO FRS (FLORIDA RETIREMENT SYSTEM) BECAUSE TECHNICALLY THEIR EMPLOYMENT ENDS AND THEN RESTARTS. THEY HAVE A WHOLE NEW -SERVICE TIME WITH THE COUNTY AFTER THAT BREAK IN SERVICE. AND THE THIRD PART, WHICH I THINK IS -THE EASIEST PART AND THAT IS OF THE VESTING UNDER THOSE SEVEN (7) YEARS. DO YOU JUST GIVE IT TO THEM A HUNDRED PERCENT (100%) OR DO YOU MAKE THEM EARN IT IN THE COUNTY UP TO SEVEN (7) YEARS, WHICH I THINK IS - A FAIRER SOLUTION. I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD HAVE AN EMPLOYEE WITH FOUR (4) YEARS OF SERVICE GO TO THE COUNTY, WORK FOR ONLY ONE (1) YEAR AND ONLY REALLY HAVE FIVE (5) YEARS OF SERVICE, BUT YET GET CREDIT FOR SEVEN (7)." N u. Q o: D DISCUSSION. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 13 OF 18 CHAIRMAN SARDO REMARKED, "ALSO, THE ISSUE IS WE NEED a; ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FROM OUR ACTUARY TO MAKE -SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE MOTION IS AND WHAT THE COST IS." "MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE AMEND THE MOTION TO READ AS BULLET TWO UNDER THE RESPONSE, WHICH IS THE ADDITION OF THE SERVICE TIME EARNED AT THE CITY, EMPLOYEES WOULD BE REQUIRED TO WORK SIGNIFICANT TIME AT THE COUNTY IN ORDER TO MEET THE VESTING REQUIREMENTS AS ESTABLISHED UNDER THE CITY PLAN THAT IS A COMBINED CITY/COUNTY TOTAL OF SEVEN (7) YEARS." AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER McLEOD. DISCUSSION. VOTE: (AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION) CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE MOTION CARRIED. BOARD MEMBER McLEOD ASKED "WOULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION FOR CLARITY?" VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE REPLIED, "IN ADDITION TO THE SERVICE TIME EARNED AT THE CITY, EMPLOYEES WOULD BE REQUIRED TO WORK SUFFICENT TIME AT THE COUNTY IN ORDER TO MEET THE VESTING REQUIREMENTS AS ESTABLISHED UNDER THE CITY PLAN, I.E. A COMBINED CITY/COUNTY TOTAL OF SEVEN (7) YEARS." VOTE: (ON THE MAIN MOTION AS AMENDED) VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 14 OF 18 "I WOULD MAKE A MOTION THAT THIS BOARD RECOMMENDS THE CITY COMMISSION DEVISE A POLICY THAT WOULD REIMBURSE - AN AFFECTED EMPLOYEE UP TO ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS ($150.00) FOR AN EMPLOYEE SEEKING INDEPENDENT, INDIVIDUALLY CHOSEN FINANCIAL ADVICE UPON SIGNATURE OF A RELEASE AND SUBMISSION OF A RECEIPT FOR SAID SERVICE TO THE COMMISSION FOR A PERIOD NOT TO EXCEED THE TERMINATION DATE OF THE ELECTION PROCESS, WHICH IS SEPTEMBER 1." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE CONTINUED, "SEPTEMBER 1 RECEIPT MUST BE PRESENTED FOR PAYMENT NOT LATER THAN SEPTEMBER 15T", 2008." MOTION BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER McLEOD. DISCUSSION. VOTE: BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Chairman Sardo opened "Public Input". Mr. Scott Tober, Central Florida Financial Group, 2909 West State Road 434, Longwood, Florida: mentioned that Chief Dave O'Brien's wife was a client of his; asked the Board if the affected employees who had twenty-three (23) or twenty-four (24) years of Service were able to buy the years to become fully vested into the Winter Springs Defined Benefit Plan. Mr. Smith replied, "As the Plan's currently written, no." Chairman Sardo closed "Public Input ". Tape 2/Side B Vice Chairman Blake said, "The question is, do we apply County Service for an individual who has less than ten (10) years of Service?" Vice Chairman Blake continued, "For an individual that currently has less than ten (10) years of Service that elects to go into the FRS (Florida Retirement System) Plan, if we apply Service at the County on top of the City's Service, solely for the purpose of reaching ten (10) years to hit fifty-five (55); for the pay-out at fifty-five (55), as opposed to sixty-five (65) where the math currently is. Actuarial, what would the additional cost to the Plan be?" Ms. Turner remarked, "I can do that." F- LL Q CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 15 OF 18 Ms. Turner continued, "Now you're going to be paying that additional time. In other words -you're going to be paying the early Retirement subsidy amount, additional amount, over a Payroll that will not include them - as long as you realize that." Vice Chairman Blake noted, "That is correct." Vice Chairman Blake continued, "If the County and the FRS (Florida Retirement System) will allow an employee who has transferred to the County through consolidation, yet elected to stay in the City of Winter Springs Plan, the County will allow that individual to terminate Service with the County, thus terminating their participation in the City's Plan; have a break of Service and then re-employ with the County and move into the FRS (Florida Retirement System). What type of an impact would that have because - we may see some shifting there of individuals who may have elected to move into the FRS (Florida Retirement System) and into the County on the election date who now may shift and decide, no, I will stay in the City Plan until I get to some date -whether that be ten (10) years; whether that be thirty (30) years. And then have a break in Service and go then go to the County. There is a cost differential in there - if the County and FRS (Florida Retirement System) allows that -that actually goes back to the ten (10) year issue as well because an employee that has -seven (7) years may elect to stay in the City for three (3) more years; terminate, have a break in Service; and then re-up with the FRS (Florida Retirement System)." Ms. Turner asked, "But don't you get their nineteen (19) point something percentage for that group..." Vice Chairman Blake replied, "...For those three (3) years..." Ms. Turner added, "...You would get extra money..." Vice Chairman Blake continued, "...Right. So, there is a funding issue there, but there is also an additional benefit issue because you got the three (3) additional years of benefit calculation in there." Further discussion. Chairman Sardo opened "Public Input ". Mr. Keith Guglielmello, Winter Springs Fire Department: received clarification from the Board about his particular case regarding his Pension Benefits. Chairman Sardo closed "Public Input ". F- u. Q GG D Discussion continued. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE l6 OF 18 "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE -REQUEST THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, AS I HAVE OUTLINED EARLIER AND PROVIDE IT TO THE COMMISSION FOR THEIR CONSIDERATION AS PART OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE FORWARD TO THEM." MOTION BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE. DISCUSSION. MANAGER 1VIcLEMORE ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION SAYING, "ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THIS GO BACK TO THE CITY COMMISSION WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION FROM YOU?" VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE REPLIED, "ONLY ON THE TWO (2) POINTS OF INFORMATION THAT I JUST DISCUSSED -BUT THEY -BOTH INVOLVE THIS TEN (10) YEAR QUESTION AND PAYMENT OF FIFTY-FIVE (55) -AND THE SECOND ONE IS THE BREAK OF SERVICE..." MANAGER McLEMORE REMARKED, "...THEY ARE GOING TO PREFER FOR YOU TO GIVE THEM A RECOMMENDATION ON THOSE." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE SAID, "I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO HOLD ANOTHER MEETING." DISCUSSION ENSUED ON DATES FOR A SPECIAL MEETING. REGARDING A JULY 29, 2008 MEETING DATE, BOARD MEMBER McLEOD SAID, "OTHER THAN BEING ABLE TO CONFERENCE IN BY PHONE, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE..." MANAGER McLEMORE REPLIED, "...THAT'S POSSIBLE..." BOARD MEMBER McLEOD CONTINUED, "...I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO THAT." CHAIRMAN SARDO ASKED BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE, "HOW ARE YOU FOR THE 29TH [JULY 2008]?" BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE REPLIED, "I HAVE A COUPLE OF POSSIBILITIES." CHAIRMAN SARDO ASKED BOARD MEMBER FAIR IF THE JULY 29, 2008 MEETING DATE WAS SATISFACTORY. BOARD MEMBER FAIR MENTIONED THAT IT WAS FINE. CHAIRMAN SARDO ASKED MS. TURNER, "DO YOU THINK YOU CAN HAVE THE INFORMATION PROVIDED BY THE 29TH [JULY 2008]?" MR. SMITH REPLIED, "SANDY [TURNER] HAS INDICATED THAT SHE CAN, MR. CHAIRMAN." Q D CHAIRMAN SARDO REITERATED, "SO, LET'S HOLD A MEETING HERE; CONVENIENT TIME 6:30 [P.M.]" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 17 OF I8 "I WOULD LIKE TO AMEND THE MOTION - TO HAVE THE CITY BRING BACK TO THIS BOARD AT A SPECIAL MEETING TO BE HELD ON JULY 29T" [2008], 6:30 P.M. THESE CHAMBERS; TO - REVIEW THE INFORMATION THAT WAS DISCUSSED EARLIER..." CHAIRMAN SARDO MENTIONED, "...PROVIDING MR. McLEOD WITH THE APPROPRIATE TELECOMMUNICATIONS." MOTION BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. SECONDED BY BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE. DISCUSSION. VOTE: (AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION) BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. CHAIRMAN SARDO ASKED DEPUTY CITY CLERK HARKER, "WOULD YOU GET THE EMAIL OUT AND ALL THAT?" DEPUTY CITY CLERK HARKER ACKNOWLEDGED THIS REQUEST. VOTE: (ON THE MAIN MOTION AS AMENDED) CHAIRMAN SARDO: AYE VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: AYE BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE MOTION CARRIED. AWARDS AND PRESENTATIONS AWARDS AND PRESENTATIONS 300. Not Used. 400. REPORTS No Reports were given. PUBLIC INPUT At this point, no one else spoke. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA PUBLIC HEARINGS AGENDA PUBLIC HEARINGS 500. Not Used. DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR MEETING -JULY 22, 2008 (RESCHEDULED FROM JULY 29, 2008) PAGE 18 OF 18 ADJOURNMENT Chairman Sardo adjourned the Regular Meeting at 9:21 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: DANIELLE HARKER DEPUTY CITY CLERK NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the , 2008 Board of Trustees Regular Rescheduled Meeting. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES SPECIAL MEETING JULY 29, 2008 CALL TO ORDER The Board of Trustees Special Meeting of Tuesday, July 29, 2008 was called to Order at 6:34 p.m. by Chairman A. Mark Sardo in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Chairman A. Mark Sardo, present Vice Chairman Michael S. Blake, present Board Member Maria Fair, present Board Member David W. McLeod, present via telephone Board Member Vernon Rozelle, Jr., present Board Member Maria Fair led the Pledge of Allegiance. A moment of silence followed. REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. Office Of The City Manager Requesting The Board Of Trustees To Provide The City Commission With Advisory Recommendations On Additional Fire Consolidation Related Retirement Matters Discussed At The July 22, 2008 Board Of Trustees Meeting. Ms. Sandy R. Turner, CPC, QPA, Retirement Plan Specialists, Inc., 81 S Eyrie Drive, Suite 4, Oviedo, Florida: spoke to the Board regarding this Agenda Item. Vice Chairman Michael S. Blake stated, "I think the instruction -from the previous Board of Trustees Meeting, was to determine -the actuarial cost impact of two (2) items. First one being those Fire Department employees, who as of October 2°d 2008, will have less than ten (10) years of service; to allow them to be able to draw their earned Retirement Benefit unreduced at age fifty-five (55) as opposed to age sixty-five (65). Well, that's the population less than ten (10) years of Service. Second question is those Fire employees who would be partially Vested as of October 2"d, 2008; that is those individuals with Service of less than seven (7) years; to allow them to be one hundred percent (100%) Vested into their earned Retirement Benefit." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES SPEC[AL MEETING -JULY 29, 2008 PAGE 2 OF 4 Ms. Turner reviewed the handout, named "City of Winter Springs Pension Plan Study Using Data As Of June 3, 2008 Projected To September 30, 2008", with the Board. Q Much discussion. Regarding the different calculations, Mr. Kevin Smith, Director, General Services Department stated, "That assumes that the Board is -agreeable to Sandy (Turner) doing the `Fresh Start' and advertising that over a longer period of time. That's contingent upon your Approval. So, I just wanted to clarify that." Vice Chairman Blake asked, "But, that question is not before us tonight." Mr. Smith answered, "That question is not before you tonight; I just want a Point of Clarification." Discussion. Chairman Sardo asked, "Any comments from the Public at this point?" No one spoke. Much discussion continued. "MY MOTION WOULD BE TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COMMISSION TO NOT AMEND THE PLAN TO INCLUDE THIS NEW BENEFIT." MOTION BY VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE. SECONDED BY CHAIRMAN SARDO. DISCUSSION. BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE ASKED, "WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET A PICTURE OF IS - IN THE LAST MEETING IT WAS ATHIRTY-THOUSAND DOLLAR ($30,000.00) FIGURE -SOMEWHERE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, WHERE..." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE REMARKED, "...THAT IS THE NEXT QUESTION." DISCUSSION CONTINUED. MS. TURNER STATED, "WE DIDN'T VALUE THIS -LAST TIME." VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE NOTED, "THAT NUMBER REPRESENTED THE DIFFERENTIAL OF -VESTING THOSE INDIVIDUALS OF FEWER THAN SEVEN (7) YEARS AND FULLY VESTING THEIR RIGHT TO RECEIVE WHATEVER THAT PERCENTAGE WAS, BUT IT WAS NOT A CHANGE IN DISTRIBUTION -RATHER THAN A PAYOUT TIME FROM SIXTY-FIVE (65) TO FIFTY-FIVE (55). THAT IS WHAT THIS QUESTION IS." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES SPECIAL MEETING -JULY 29, 2008 PAGE 3 OF 4 VOTE: VICE CHAIRMAN BLAKE: AYE BOARD MEMBER FAIR: NAY BOARD MEMBER ROZELLE: AYE CHAIRMAN SARDO: NAY BOARD MEMBER McLEOD: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Discussion ensued on whether Board Member David W. McLeod's Vote counted as the deciding Vote. Chairman Sardo called a Recess at 7:11 p. m. The Special Meeting was called back to Order at 7:15 p.m. City Manager Ronald W. McLemore stated, "According to the City Attorney - a person who is on the phone cannot be counted to constitute aquorum -but once you have the quorum, his Vote is just like anyone else's Vote." Mr. Smith stated for the Record, "That Vote -does count and the Motion to deny passed three (3) to two (2)." Chairman Sardo noted, "Also as a Clarification, we passed the Motion in the previous Meeting to read that the Vesting requirements are established under the City Plan that is combined City/County total of seven (7) years. Motion was by Mr. Blake and it was Seconded and Passed." Mr. Smith said, "The recommendation of the Board as far as the Vesting of those employees with less than seven (7) years, to be fully Vested in their Retirement Benefit was Approved last Tuesday night by Vote of the Board." Vice Chairman Blake added, "Utilizing a combination of City Service and County Service." Chairman Sardo noted, "Correct." Mr. Smith mentioned, "We'll be moving forward with that recommendation in the affirmative to the City Commission." Chairman Sardo opened Public Input. Mr. Jason C. Metivier, Firefighter, Winter Springs, Florida: spoke of Pension reductions; and asked the Board to consider allowing the Fire Department employees to buy out their current Pension Retirement funds. Much discussion ensued with Mr. Metivier. Tape 1/Side B Discussion continued with Mr. Metivier. i~ • Chairman Sardo closed Public Input. t CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA DRAFT UNAPPROVED MINUTES BOARD OF TRUSTEES SPECIAL MEETING -JULY 29, 2008 PAGE 4 OF 4 ADJOURNMENT 0 Chairman Sardo adjourned the Special Meeting at 7:30 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: DANIELLE HARKER DEPUTY CITY CLERK NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the , 2008 Boazd of Trustees Regulaz Meeting.