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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010 01 04 City Commission Special Meeting MinutesCITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING JANUARY 4, 2010 CALL TO ORDER The Special Meeting of Monday, January 4, 2010 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor John F. Bush at 6:00 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor Rick Brown, present Commissioner Jean Hovey, present Commissioner Gary Bonner, present Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present City Manager Kevin L. Smith, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present A moment of silence was followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. PUBLIC INPUT No one spoke. City Manager Kevin L. Smith mentioned possible new tenants for the Winter Springs Town Center and specifically noted a potential new telecommunications business which asked the City about the possibility of relocating a handicap parking space. Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs noted her concern about the handicapped space and any possible hardships. Manager Smith remarked, "Duly noted." Further comments followed on businesses; the Town Center; and recent newspaper articles. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 2 OF 16 REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. Office Of The City Manager Requests That The Commission Consider The Information Provided In This Agenda Item Related To A Charter Review And Then Provide Direction For Proceeding As Deemed Appropriate. Discussion began on the Charter Review process; and whether a citizen Committee should be used. "I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE MOVE WITH A CITIZEN'S REVIEW BOARD." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KREBS. SECONDED BY DEPUTY MAYOR BROWN. DISCUSSION. MAYOR BUSH ADDED, MOTION "THAT THE CHARTER REVIEW BE MADE UP OF CITIZEN'S - A CHARTER REVIEW COMMITTEE." VOTE: COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE COMMISSIONER HOVEY: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR BROWN: AYE COMMISSIONER BONNER: AYE MOTION CARRIED. MOTION "THAT THE COMMISSION WOULD EACH CHOOSE INCLUDING THE MAYOR - ONE (1) MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY AND THEN THERE WOULD BE ONE (1) AT LARGE SEAT WHICH WOULD GIVE US AN ODD NUMBER FOR A TOTAL OF SEVEN (7)." MOTION BY DEPUTY MAYOR BROWN. MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. Further discussion ensued on the size of such a Committee. "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE HAVE TWO (2) APIECE, AND ONE (1) FOR THE MAYOR - THAT IS A TOTAL OF ELEVEN (11)." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KREBS. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. DISCUSSION. NEXT, CITY ATTORNEY ANTHONY A. GARGANESE ADDRESSED THE CHANGES BETWEEN THE 7TH AND 8TH EDITIONS OF THE "MODEL CITY CHARTER". CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 3 OF 16 COMMISSIONER KREBS SUGGESTED, "WE SHOULD HAVE OUR ISSUES THAT WE BRING - TO THIS COMMITTEE TO LET THEM KNOW, THESE ARE THE AREAS WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO LOOK AT." ADDITIONALLY, COMMISSIONER KREBS NOTED, "I WOULD NOT NECESSARILY WANT TO SEE THAT THIS COMMITTEE RECOMMENDED AN ITEM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW MANY RECOMMENDED IT." FURTHERMORE, COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "WHEN WE GET THIS INFORMATION BACK, THAT IT COMES BACK TO US THAT WAY." VOTE: DEPUTY MAYOR BROWN: NAY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE COMMISSIONER HOVEY: AYE COMMISSIONER BONNER: NAY COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Discussion. "I MOVE WE HAVE A CONSULTANT WHO HAS WORKED WITH OTHER CITIES WITH CHARTERS AND IS FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. Further discussion followed on what suggested changes should be considered by the citizen Charter Review Committee, to which Mayor Bush stated, "I would like to say first thing, is that we need to change when the newly Elected people take Office because it is so awkward right now." Deputy Mayor Rick Brown suggested, "That conversion period should be moved up to the second Meeting, if not the first Meeting in November." Related to 4.01. and 4.03. of the Charter, Mayor Bush suggested, "The first Meeting after the Elections?" Deputy Mayor Brown noted, "Exactly, it would be the first Meeting in November." Commissioner Sally McGinnis and Commissioner Gary Bonner agreed with this also. Manager Smith added, "I would suggest to the Commission that they may want to consider that it not be the next Regular Meeting; that there not be the ability to call a Special Meeting and circumvent the spirit of what you're trying to do - for example, I think that the intent, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that an Election happens and a previous Commission may make a decision before the new Commission takes Office. And I think you're trying to prevent that, if I understand correctly." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 4 OF 16 Deputy Mayor Brown agreed with the concern about Special Meetings. Manager Smith remarked, "Yes, with that in mind, we can make it the next Regular Meeting. You could circumvent the spirit of what you are trying to do by calling a Special Meeting." Commissioner Bonner, Commissioner Krebs, and Commissioner McGinnis noted their agreement. Commissioner Bonner commented, "My intent is that the newly Elected Commission takes Office and makes decisions effectively immediately - to the extent that the newly Elected Commission period would be immediately by ratification of the Election of the body to Vote on matters pertaining to the City." Mayor Bush noted, "They have got to be Sworn in though." City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese added, "You also have to wait for Certification of Election results." Additionally, Commissioner Bonner said, "All that has to be formalized, but basically I don't want there to be an opportunity of the prior Commission to circumvent the decision of the people." Mayor Bush then stated, "Kevin (Smith) and Anthony (Garganese), you get the gist of what the Commission wants, then write that up." Manager Smith noted, "Briefly, there may be an opportunity to restrict the powers of the Commission during that `lame duck' period; there may be another way to address it." Commissioner Bonner remarked, "The flip side is that I certainly wouldn't want to put anything in to place that would cause the City to fail to be able to operate during this interim period. So, we need to have a method to make sure that there is continuity of government during this transition of power as it were." Commissioner McGinnis pointed out, "What I think we should be doing right now, that is a good issue; we make a list of our issues and rationale. Those concerns and issues then go to the Charter Review Committee..." Commissioner Bonner added, "....Agreed..." Commissioner McGinnis continued and said, "...And they rank, debate it." Commissioner Bonner then stated, "I agree." No objections were voiced. Mayor Bush added, "I think that Kevin (Smith) and Anthony (Garganese) should kind of wordsmith this a little bit because I think they understand what we are getting at here." Deputy Mayor Brown then noted, "I would just like to address that comment Commissioner McGinnis, in that the Charter Review Committee is an Advisory Board only. They could come back with something the five (5) of us do not want, so they can wrangle it all they want, but if they come back with something we don't agree with..." Commissioner McGinnis agreed. Next, discussion followed on whether the Mayor should be able to Vote. Deputy Mayor Brown noted that the Mayor does have a lot of power with his ability to Veto Ordinances. Mayor Bush added, "Yes, and it goes right along with something I want to recommend - and that is the Veto includes Resolutions, not just Ordinances." Further discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 5 OF 16 Commissioner Bonner noted, "You mentioned in your comments Mr. Mayor that you wish that at times that that Veto extended to Resolutions, in addition to Ordinances. I am not opposed to that being a topic for the citizen Committee to wrestle with and bring back a suggestion to us; so, I just wanted to support your comment." Commissioner Krebs added, "I concur with Commissioner Bonner. There is nothing wrong with investigating that possibility, so let's investigate it." Mayor Bush remarked, "Okay." No objections were voiced. Next, Commissioner Bonner commented, "Another item of interest to me is in Section 5.03. under the powers of the City Manager. I call your attention to — item (6) and item (8) and it addresses reporting on finances and administrative activities. Item (6) calls it out clearly that there is basically a Report at the end of the Fiscal Year and I know that we practice that today. And, that may be okay the way that it is worded, but in item (8), it talks about keeping the Commission fully advised as to the financial condition and future needs of the City, so on and so forth; but it doesn't necessarily deem the frequency or the detail. And I know that we have been making great strides. I know that our new Manager (Smith) is making great strides to keep us more informed about and particularly the finances of our City, but this Commission and prior Commissions have talked about this before. And, I think that we might serve the Manager if we put a little bit more meat possibly in item (8) and calling out a little bit more specificity in terms of that reporting function. Now, maybe it is not appropriate to have that detail in the Charter, I am not really sure. But, it is an item that I would love for this citizen's group to wrestle with and get some feedback from them to make sure that future Commissions have the benefit of timely financial information." Mayor Bush mentioned, "The advantage of putting something like this in a Charter is that it takes the Vote of the people to undo it. So - where the Commission can always change its own rules - but I think it is a good idea, by the way." Commissioner Krebs remarked, "I do not necessarily agree with that because I think that is a Policy decision. I think that what Commission Bonner is proposing is very good. I just do not think it belongs in the Charter. I think it is more of a Policy issue and yes, you are right, we can change it as we want. Then, we could always change it if we wanted it - more often or less often, or however we deemed necessary. If it is in the Charter, we do not have a choice, that is the way we have to go." With further comments, Commissioner Krebs referenced Section 5.01. and pointed out, "The Appointment and the removal of that, I feel needs to be looked at. I did in fact read many of those Charters that were gathered for us and I found the majority had a three -two (3-2) - it was not a super majority. So I found that interesting and even right here in Seminole County. There was once another Commissioner on this Commission that had said, `Sometimes when you have a super majority, you are - actually giving the power to the minority and not the majority.' CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 6 OF 16 So, I think - that is what I would like to see somebody look at." Mayor Bush remarked, "I think that is a good point." Commissioner McGinnis added, "I concur with removal process." With further comments on financial reporting, Commissioner Bonner said, "Quarterly, would satisfy me, but certainly, in my opinion the only frequency called out today is annually. And it is my view that the frequency needs to be greater. I would welcome the citizen Committee to give us some direction on that, but I think quarterly would be a reasonable time frame to require — a status, a financial status." Deputy Mayor Brown stated, "In the spirit of open transparency, 1 would not have a problem with the Charter Review Committee looking at that. I would support them —just giving us an opinion on that." Mayor Bush remarked, "Let's ask Kevin (Smith) what kind of work load is this going to put on you if you have to do an official quarterly financial condition." Manager Smith responded, "Not a problem, we are doing it already. We will do it monthly if you want - my personal opinion, others may differ - is this Commission can't have enough financial information from your Staff." Mayor Bush commented, "I think Commissioner Bonner has recommended that we run this one by the citizen's Committee, to get their input from it and go from there." The removal process was again addressed to which Deputy Mayor Brown noted, "I was also going to agree with Commissioner Krebs — would you want to see that extended to all Constitutional Offices?" Commissioner Krebs said, "Absolutely." Deputy Mayor Brown then said, "So the Clerk, the Attorney, and the City Manager — because I was only considering that as a point of removal, not for hiring. Would you consider it both ways, a simple majority for both?" Commissioner Krebs commented, "I do think that for a super majority to hire is preferred, because I believe that that is showing the majority of the Commission wants to work with this person whoever they are hiring..." Mayor Bush pointed out, "...That is the direction I was leaning..." Commissioner McGinnis stated, "...Me too..." Commissioner Krebs continued, "...And the dismissal is, you know if you got more than three (3) people, or three (3) or more that just really do not want to work with you, there is really no point." Deputy Mayor Brown summarized, "Four (4) to hire, three (3) to remove." The financial reporting process was further addressed and Manager Smith stated, "I do agree that for what it is worth, you can take it forward to the citizen Committee, but in my opinion, it is a Policy decision that should be made by the Commission. You could direct me to do it daily if you like, and a future Commission may feel differently." Commissioner McGinnis stated, "Yes, I agree." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 7 OF 16 With further comments on the removal process, Commissioner Bonner stated, "Regarding the super majority discussion, removal versus hiring, I concur with the current hiring direction. That makes good sense as Commissioner Krebs stated." Additionally, Commissioner Bonner said, "It would be easier to proceed with a removal - the other side of this coin is having the City Manager or the other Constitutional Officers - I wonder how that would effect their future performance in their jobs versus the way that they are structured today, knowing that it is just a little bit easier for them to get terminated." Commissioner Bonner then noted, "I agree with sending this to the citizen Committee for a review." Discussion regarding the financial reporting continued, to which Deputy Mayor Brown remarked, "I think it makes a very strong statement on our commitment to transparency if we did put it in the Charter, even though I know it does not have to be..." Mayor Bush noted, "...I agree..." Deputy Mayor Brown continued, "...I think it says a lot about what we see as being important." Tape 1/Side B Discussion. Attorney Garganese explained, "The Model Charter recommends that before termination occurs; that the termination occur by Resolution; that the grounds for termination be set forth in a Resolution and the Manager be given an opportunity to - request a Public Hearing on the basis of the termination. So, if the City Charter Committee and Commission Approve adding a different process that's not already in the Charter; then you have got to be careful about the Mayor's right to Veto a Resolution if that requirement is imposed." Continuing, Attorney Garganese explained, "Right now it is just by Vote, but if you look at the Model Charter it's been in there quite some time. Typically, there's a Resolution that's Adopted by the Commission setting forth the grounds. The Manager then sees the writing on the wall, and can request a Hearing before the Commission on the basis; and then the second step is after the Manager is given an opportunity to be heard, then the Commission Votes." Commissioner Krebs stated, "Wouldn't this Committee look at that very issue? I would think, I would hope?" Attorney Garganese pointed out that, "I'm just putting that out on the table because it's an additional issue on top of the termination on the number of Votes required and if the Commission is going to provide some specific direction to the Committee, I'm not hearing this, but you want to make sure that you are not limiting them to just looking at the fourth re -Vote issue. You want them to look at that whole process in its entirety." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 8 OF 16 Commissioner Krebs remarked, "I think they should have the free reign to come back with, `Yes, here we do recommend that you change this', but in changing this, we also recommend - that's my thought." Commissioner Bonner noted that his expectation was that all the aspects of the 8`h Edition of the Model City Charter be compared to our current Charter and that all differences be addressed. With additional discussion on the proposed Resolution related to termination, Attorney Garganese added, "It's an opportunity for the Manager just to be heard on the basis of termination. That is all. Some Charters are silent on it. Winter Springs is silent. Others are not. Others follow the Model City Charter." Attorney Garganese then explained, "It's an inconsistency between the existing Charter and the Model Charter." Deputy Mayor Brown inquired, "Does that hold true whether it is a removal on grounds that would cancel the severance or if there is going to be some kind of penalty involved with removing or is that just, `We would like you to go home and not come back anymore'." Attorney Garganese answered, "It doesn't involve the termination of the term of a Contract. Where the City Commission takes some affirmative action to terminate the Manager — on a certain basis, that's when it gets triggered. And then they're given an opportunity just to have their say in a very brief Meeting; and then the Commission still reserves the discretion to hire and to terminate because the Manager would serve at the will of the Commission." Deputy Mayor Brown then said, "So, there may be some grounds that call for that and some that do not. Is that what you are saying?" Attorney Garganese responded, "Yes. There's actually a City Charter where it's three (3) Votes to Adopt a Resolution, and then four (4) Votes to terminate; which it takes three (3) Votes of the Commission to put the basis forth, and then the final act of termination requires a fourth (4) Vote. I've seen that. Whatever works for — our particular City. It's your ultimate call and the citizen's would Vote on it." Commissioner Bonner stated, "I guess first I would say, since there such an active discussion on this topic, this sounds like a great one to be tossing to the Committee for their feedback on. But, I do like fundamentally the concept of some form of due process that would potentially mitigate for lack of a better word, an emotional decision on a Vote of confidence on a three -two (3-2) that came up over a particular issue that was contentious, but not necessarily should be considered a deal killer for a great Manager that just had a bad day or whatever the case might be. So, I look forward to this item coming back with some healthy discussion from this citizen's group." Further comments. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 9 OF 16 Commissioner McGinnis noted, "Section 4.08., specifically (b) (3) is `Forfeiture of office. A commissioner or mayor shall forfeit his office if he: Is convicted of a felony or Now my question - there is nothing that is in the qualifications to run. It does not say, `Are you a Convicted Felon'?" Attorney Garganese stated, "I think the general rule in Winter Springs to Qualify - you have to be a resident and a registered Elector. So, to the extent that you have your Voting Rights, and you are a resident within - a minimum of six (6) months, then you Qualify to run for the City Commission providing you reside in the District in which you want to run or in the Mayor's case, you can run at large. I think the forfeiture of Office provision is if you are - duly Elected; and then you are Convicted, while in Office of a Felony - it's grounds for forfeiture of Office. I think that's how that provision is intended to play out." Commissioner McGinnis remarked, "I assumed that, but it doesn't say." Mayor Bush noted, "On page 10, 7.07. (d), `Transfer of appropriations. At any time during the fiscal year the city manager may transfer part or all of any unencumbered appropriation balance among programs within a department...'." Mayor Bush added, "I think the Commission should be made aware of this or should actually approve the transfer of funds. Maybe you could set a threshold, but sometimes this could be huge amounts of money." Mayor Bush suggested, "So, I think that should be looked at." Further discussion. Manager Smith added, "I would think at a minimum, some type of reporting to the Commission." Commissioner Bonner then said, "The concern you are raising which I share the concern and again, to the Attorney's point, it may be addressed by putting in a more frequent period back in 5.03., item (8)." Mayor Bush remarked, "But you would not see it. I mean it would show up in the Financial Report, but you would not see where the money is transferred from..." Commissioner Bonner added, "...Unless I am mistaken, I would see as this written, I think you would adjust the Budget for the Department as well as the expenditure. So, we would see a change in the Budget. In Financial Reporting, if it is done properly, we should be looking at deltas and Budgets and balances spent. So, I would think it would pop-up on the radar screen." Manager Smith noted, "As Anthony (Garganese) articulated earlier, there is fine line between Policy decisions and what should go in the Charter. I agree with your thought process." Mayor Bush stated, "I am not saying you should not do it, I am just saying the Commission needs to be made aware of it and they need to say yes, Kevin (Smith), that is okay you can do it." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 10 OF 16 Attorney Garganese suggested, "Just a point, if you carefully look at that subsection (d), you raise an interesting point. The way it reads right now, it says that 'any time the manager may transfer part or all of an unencumbered appropriation among the programs within a `department, office or agency'. So, the Charter actually gives the Manager that right. Once the Budget is set for that Program, Department or Agency, the Manager can move the money around within that box. However, what the Manager needs the Commission's Approval to do is transfer unencumbered appropriations from one `department, office or agency' to another `department, office or agency'. So right now, the Charter gives the Manager the right to do that without any restrictions from the Commission. This Charter doesn't say `pursuant to guidelines established by the Commission'. If you wanted to take a look at whether the Commission should have the Authority to establish guidelines within a Department, Agency or not, or just keep it, as you said, a reporting issue. If you don't like the inter -Department transfers, what the Commission could always do, is cut the appropriation for a specific Department, in general. That's how it would play out from a Budget standpoint." Commissioner Bonner then mentioned, "The way I am reading this is that you cannot move from Department to Department. Now, what may not be called out is what is the definition of a Department. I think of that as Public Works versus Parks and Recs. (Recreation) versus so on. But, I do not know that that is necessarily spelled out. `Is the box tight enough' is really what the question is. Do we have adequate reporting to cause that not to be an issue? I think the Mayor raising this point is a good thing. I think that it is probably something we should have a citizen's group take a peek at. I certainly do not want to encumber the Manager's ability to run the business of the City in any way, but the flip side is, I do not want to have a slush fund out there that goes unmonitored or unreported." Commissioner Krebs commented, "Thank you for clarifying that Anthony (Garganese). I was just reading in (c) above that if there is a reduction of appropriations it looks like the City Manager actually has to report it to the Commission and I guess look for some kind of other steps or whatever to be taken. Well, and then you get down to the transfer. We can change or fix that by just a little bit of verbiage in there too. But, I do see the Mayor's point and we are talking transparency and we are all talking about all that - and maybe that is a good idea to look at." Attorney Garganese explained, "(c) talks about when revenues are reduced that may not be sufficient to fund the Budget, then the Manager has an obligation to come forth and explain that to you and you all have to try to fix that. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 11 OF 16 So, from what I'm hearing, maybe the Committee needs to take a look at whether the City Commission should have some say or establish some guideline on the Manager's Authority to transfer unencumbered appropriation balances between Departments/ Agencies once they're established." Mayor Bush said, "Like the established guidelines." Commissioner Krebs remarked, "Right, yes." Furthermore, Attorney Garganese stated, "It is a simple wordsmith change, but it gives you some say without really hand tying - you can get into all the specific guidelines when you set them, but to give the Commission some Authority and some say because the way I read it right now, you don't have it unless you cut the Department's Budget." Commissioner Krebs added, "Yes, I thought in that case, at least if there is something in here that says `You can do it', but you better be bringing that right to the Commission and letting them know what is going on; and at least we are just made aware right then and there - but it is not encumbering the day-to-day operations." Next, Commissioner Jean Hovey asked, "Do we have any guidelines for you on some of these things that would be able to just be Voted on by the Commission?" Manager Smith responded, "You can establish whatever policies and procedures as long it's consistent with this Charter." Commissioner Hovey then noted, "But there are none now, which would be a guide for the position that you have with regard to some of these issues. I mean common sense says you are going to do them." Mayor Bush pointed out, "The Commission can't override the Charter, but they can do everything else." Attorney Garganese explained, "Charters, are like Constitutions, are written in general terms - more specificity is put into Codes, Administrative Policies. So, the more specific sometimes the Charter becomes, the more hand tied the future Commissions and the Manager are going to be. Commissioner Hovey remarked, "Some of this - that is in here needs to be in here, but could we give him more direction in another document of some type?" Manager Smith stated, "Absolutely." Mayor Bush and Deputy Mayor Brown also agreed. Additionally, Attorney Garganese said, "Yes, like reporting, 5.03. (7) says the Manager `shall make such reports as the commission may require concerning the operations of city departments...' etc. etc." Commissioner Krebs pointed out, "Right, then we set the Policy." Attorney Garganese then noted, "The Commission can Adopt an Ordinance, Adopt a Resolution - directing the Manager, saying — `We want this information quarterly, weekly'. I mean you establish the Policy within the general framework of the Charter." With further discussion, Attorney Garganese suggested, "It would have to be at a minimum, on a quarterly basis." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 12 OF 16 Deputy Mayor Brown then said, "Going back to what we are talking about with Fund Transfers, is that just a reporting mechanism? Is that where we were on the discussion, that he would report to us immediately after he does it, or on a quarterly basis with the Financials?" Commissioner Krebs added, "No, we didn't decide exactly that he was going to do that. That was just an example." Mayor Bush remarked, "I just think the Commission needs to be made aware of when lapsed salary dollars are transferred around, because you could build a Budget and then just tear it apart." Mayor Bush added, "I think this is something that needs to be worded and worked out." Deputy Mayor Brown noted, "I was just going to say that I would be okay with knowing after the fact because we always have the power to go back and do punitive measures against whatever budget line item - that is why I mentioned, `On a quarterly basis'. If part of the Financials was a list of all the Fund Transfers that occurred, we would have the opportunity to ask questions and then if we didn't think one was appropriate, we could go back." Manager Smith stated, "That is a great point. That is why I am trying to determine in my mind the balance between - what the Manager has to do for the Charter and what he should do and obviously - I think reporting is important and the Commission can dictate whatever reporting there needs to be." Mayor Bush summarized, "I think everybody understands what we are trying to get at here and you can word it so it works and makes sense and does not handcuff you from doing your job. One other thing I think we need to decide and - this is a decision, the changes that come back that the Commission eventually Approves - are they to be Voted on individually or Voted on as group?" Commissioner Krebs suggested, "If you do not Vote on them individually, you will not get anything passed." Mayor Bush added, "It is something you need to think about and you do not have to decide tonight, of course." Commissioner McGinnis added, "I do not want to decide tonight, but I think I would rather wait and see what comes back." Mayor Bush noted, "If it is five (5) or six (6) of them, some of those that deal with the Manager, I think should be Voted on individually." Commissioner Bonner said, "I would prefer to address them individually over a group. So, that causes me to see if that issue is even addressed in the Resolution that is before us tonight. I did not think so." Attorney Garganese explained, "You probably don't have the data to even make that decision - if you are talking about doing a revised City Charter and there are technical changes all over the place, then you could propose the full Charter." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 13 OF 16 With further comments, Attorney Garganese noted, "There are two (2) issues - one (1), Commissioner Bonner is alluding to whether or not the Committee should operate by Consensus or make recommendations one (1) provision at a time. The last City Charter Review Committee was by Consensus. So, we just kept that in this Resolution. It's your decision on whether you want them to build Consensus and present a package to you, or whether you want them to just Vote up or down - on certain provisions and then you see where it is. Your call, you have to provide the direction to the Committee. And the other part is, once you get those recommendations back and you decide what's going to go to the Voters at that point, you are in a better position to make the determination how -- some of the revisions may be grouped into one (1) question because they are interrelated parts. Some may be Voted on individually, you may decide, well, let's just put them all out to the Voters in one (1) Referendum question like the last Commission did. And you really can't judge that until you know what those specific changes are. " Commissioner Krebs remarked, "Realizing that there will be more than one (1) Meeting for this Charter, I am just thinking ahead right now, would it be possible to have this - audio streamed, these Meetings? The reason I say that, you are right, this Charter is the most important document that we have. And, if we advertise it, it would also be - streamed. People would have at least the opportunity to be able to come to the next Meeting, pass comments on something they may have heard. But we are all hearing about our communication and I - would feel really good about people just being able to sit in their home and hear - and then say `Okay, well I am going to go up and maybe even talk at the Commission Meeting' - but just give them the opportunity." Mayor Bush said, "There is no reason that could not be done, is there Kevin (Smith)?" Manager Smith responded, "Absolutely we can do that — we're doing it right now. But, the one thing we need to be sure of is with eleven (11) people and the Facilitator, that when folks talk, they have to talk into the microphone." As to the location for such Meetings, Commissioner Krebs commented, "My proposal is to have a set time that this Meeting will take place. I guess right here whenever it is available ;nd select people who can say `Yes, I can make those Meetings'." Commissioner Bonner stated, "I agree with you." Commissioner Krebs added, "I just think we need to set it and say, `Can you do it when we ask'." Deputy Mayor Brown remarked, "Back to the question of Consensus or Voting, I have to agree with Commissioner Krebs, I do not really care who Voted how, but I would like to see the Vote counts on every line item; so that we know which ones are going to be contentious; which ones we need to pay more attention to; or which ones are no brainers for the Committee." Commissioner Krebs agreed. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL. MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 14 OF 16 As to Consensus or Votes, Manager Smith noted, "My recommendation would be that we have a Vote. I don't understand why we wouldn't have a Vote." Manager Smith then added, "I think it is important the Commission choose individuals that can make the Meetings and can make every Meeting to the point where I don't even think we need Alternates because that shouldn't even be an option." With further brief discussion on a Moderator, Manager Smith stated, "The Resolution that would be asked to be Adopted specifies that we use a Moderator, just a point of clarification. The Commission can obviously change that, but I would recommend we use a Moderator if we are having a citizen Committee." Deputy Mayor Brown said to Attorney Garganese, "I believe the item we are discussing now on the Consensus is SECTION I., item (d); I think is the one (I) place it is called out. So you might need to take a peek at that before we entertain this Resolution. Further comments. Commissioner Bonner inquired, "Would this Committee be supported by legal representation? Would that be either the Manger or the Attorney? Your thoughts on that I wanted to hear and as such I assume it is covered under our Contract for services with you Anthony (Garganese)." Attorney Garganese stated, "Correct." Continuing, Commissioner Bonner noted, "Rather than hiring an additional Moderator service, whether or not our Legal Counsel's Firm could facilitate the moderation process and provide that counsel, and all that be covered under existing Contract for services; and incur no additional cost to the citizen's for the moderation function." Attorney Garganese said, "Certainly I can do it - I can work through the issues with any Committee. I am not an advocate one way or another, but I can give you my experiences in both capacities and help them work through the Charter and as a legal advisor. I can do it if that is what you wanted or you can get someone totally independent to serve in that Moderator function." Furthermore, Attorney Garganese added, "I have worked through the Charters with various Committees and Commissions. In terms of running the Meeting, you have a Chair that will actually run the Meeting, will open up the Meeting for Public Input and take public comment." Mayor Bush said, "I would be very comfortable with Anthony (Garganese) doing it. Is everybody okay with that?" Commissioner McGinnis noted, "Even though this could take four (4) Meetings?" Attorney Garganese remarked, "It doesn't matter to me; it is all covered under a flat fee retainer." Mayor Bush asked, "Are you okay with that - with Anthony (Garganese) doing it?" No objections were voiced. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 15 OF 16 Deputy Mayor Brown then inquired, "Did we want to look at any exclusions, or is there a precedent for doing exclusions for people eligible to serve on this Board?" Attorney Garganese responded, "Your call. You have the power of Appointing the Committee Members. If you want to establish qualifications and criteria, that's your call." Mayor Bush stated, "I would say if they meet the requirements to run for Office, live in the City so many months..." Attorney Garganese remarked, "...You have the general requirement in your Code that says you have to be resident of Winter Springs to serve on a Board or Committee of this type. But in terms of establishing criteria - do you want Doctors, Lawyers?" Mayor Bush suggested, "So, we should keep people who are running for Election off of this?" Attorney Garganese stated, "That is your call." Deputy Mayor Brown mentioned, "I think past Commissioners who were part of the Commission at the time the last one was done, may have a pre -disposition to wanting to keep things the way they initially had Voted on them when this last Charter Review was done..." Attorney Garganese noted, "...2000-2001." Commissioner Bonner then referenced the City's Advisory Boards (not including the Code Enforcement Board), and inquired, "Is there any difference between an Advisory Board Member and a Quasi -Judicial Member in consideration of them serving on the Charter Review?" Attorney Garganese responded, "As long as the Charter Review Committee is an Advisory Committee, then, Members of your other Boards could serve on this Ad Hoc Committee. If the Charter Review Committee had the final say, then your Code Board Members would be prohibited from serving." Manager Smith suggested, "The Agenda Item specified if you were all in the mindset to have a citizen's Committee, which you are; that we would bring back Appointments at the next two (2) Commission Meetings. With that in mind, I think we need to discuss if there's going to be any exclusions." Commissioner McGinnis explained, "I am not comfortable with exclusions." Attorney Garganese then said, "If you are going impose exclusions, then you better make them known now." Mayor Bush noted, "They would have to meet the same hurdles that they would need to serve on any Committee." Commissioner Krebs remarked, "Yes, I agree." Commissioner Krebs added, "We are going to Vote on these people. So - if there was somebody there that we felt like - truly was not in the best interest of the City, then I suggest we just say no. But, it is not against the person, but it is just maybe we feel." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING — JANUARY 4, 2010 PAGE 16 OF 16 Furthermore, Attorney Garganese commented, "If the Commission is done talking about the specific provisions; that Resolution obviously will need to be revised, but I would want to change the Consensus language and play around with the structure; and then also incorporate into the Resolution the specific provisions that you definitely want studied, and you definitely want a recommendation on. And then the general recommendation on consistency with the Model Charter would be the other part of the process." Commissioner McGinnis stated, "Good." No objections were voiced. Commissioner Bonner then said, "One point to come back to, Commissioner Krebs' suggestion about us establishing a timeline so that any citizen's that we would be approaching for consideration of service could understand what their commitment is..." Commissioner Krebs added, "...A date and time, yes..." Commissioner Bonner commented, "...I do not believe we have zeroed in on that." Next, Commissioner Hovey remarked, "I think since Anthony (Garganese) is going to be the Facilitator, he should look at his schedule and give us some dates before the next Meeting - and we could start looking." Attorney Garganese remarked, "I can tell you right now, my preference would be Thursdays." Mayor Bush suggested to Attorney Garganese, "You can set the schedule; bring it back." Commissioner Krebs also mentioned to Attorney Garganese, "I know you are going to set the schedule. I would ask you to keep in mind that most of these people or at least people that I would be choosing and probably others, would have jobs and would not be getting home until a certain time." Commissioner Krebs added, "I was thinking more towards what the normal Board Meetings are - seven o'clock, if that is possible." There were no objections. ADJOURNMENT Mayor Bush adjourned the Special Meeting at 7:30 p.m. RES CTFULLY SUBMITTED: A A LORENZO-LUACES, MMC CITY,CLERK APP 'ED.- MAY JOHN F. BUSH NOTE: T1cse Minutes were approved at the January 25, 2010 City Commission Regular Meeting.