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HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2008 04 04 City Commission Special MinutesCITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING APRIL 4, 2008 CALL TO ORDER The Special Meeting of Friday, April 4, 2008 of the City Commission was called to Order by Mayor John F. Bush at 4:00 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Roll Call: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor Donald A. Gilmore, present Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present Commissioner Rick Brown, present Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, present REGULAR AGENDA REGULAR 600. Office Of The City Manager Discussion Of Bart Phillips' Project. Mayor Bush stated, "Commissioners, make sure that you have the Agenda Item that says `601'. This one -Andrea [Lorenzo-Luaces, City Clerk] mentioned that the original had a numbering problem." Ms. April Boswell, AICP, Planning Director, Harling, Locklin & Associates, Inc., 850 Courtland Street, Orlando, Florida: introduced her client and addressed this Agenda Item. Mayor Bush opened the "Public Input" portion of the Agenda Item. No one spoke. Mayor Bush closed the "Public Input" portion of the Agenda Item. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 2 OF 18 On the issue of the proposed wall and plantings, Commissioner Sally McGinnis asked, "Whose responsibility is it to maintain that?" Ms. Boswell said, "The responsibility of maintaining that is Seminole County. We are working on an agreement with them as far as how that is going to work as well as a few other things. So, what we've worked out with them is that they agreed to plant and maintain that. We still want to be a good corporate and community partner in that. That being said, the Property Owner Mr. (Bart) Phillips does have a watering truck, so he is able and ready and willing to help water that if need be, especially to get it jump started; so, it gets a good start." Discussion. Deputy Mayor Donald A. Gilmore asked, "Why aren't we putting a joint retention area out between this planning area and the street?" Mr. Brian Fields, P.E., City Engineer, Public Works Department responded, "The roadway drainage from [State Road] 419, the DOT (Department of Transportation) has their own swale system -the roadway Swale system is out here. This is just for the Trail run-off -would go into this swale over here. It wouldn't take any run-off from the road. Totally separate drainage for the road. It would not impact the Trail. They have to have their own separately owned and maintained." With further discussion, Mr. Fields said, "The drainage for the Trail stays in the Trail right-of--way. The DOT's (Department of Transportation) drainage stays in the DOT's (Department of Transportation) right-of-way." Much discussion. City Manager Ronald W. McLemore spoke for the Record about his concerns related to landscaping and irrigation. Mr. Bob Goff, Special Projects Director, 419 Metal and Auto Recycling Center, 600 Old Sanford-Oviedo Road, Winter Springs, Florida: remarked, "We do have a request in, in this Plan, to put a warehouse on Lot..." Manager McLemore said, "...A warehouse doesn't bother me..." Mr. Goff stated, "...33 and 34." Manager McLemore then stated, "But those are typical `Light Industrial' kind of `Uses'." Next, Mr. Goff explained, "We have never even considered putting auto salvage up there in any way, shape or form -and if you rezone it, of course, you could classify it for the entire range of `Uses'. We're certainly not intending to do that and if there is some sort of a caveat for those 33, 34 and 35, we'd be more than happy to put that in a Development Agreement." Manager McLemore said, "Well, I just pointed that out - something that can be worked out." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 3 OF 18 Continuing, Mr. Goff noted, "We can restrict those three (3) lots - we can certainly put those three (3) lots -put it in the Development Order that we'll not allow the salvage operations that you're concerned about because it's not our concern or intent to move them there." Mr. Goff added, "Any kind of a restriction on 33, 34, and 35 to eliminate that, would be agreeable." Mr. Fields further addressed the City Commission and an aerial view of the property site was shown. Discussion. Tape 1/Side B Further discussion ensued. Mr. Bart Phillips, 419 Metal and Auto Recycling Center, 600 Old Sanford-Oviedo Road, Winter Springs, Florida: said, "On the CSX, if we want to have a roadway to go across, you have to close three (3) other crossings to make that happen. So, it will take a very long time to get something like that accomplished. For the Trail to go through, I have already contacted CSX and they said for the crossing for people, it shouldn't be much of a problem to get it done and they want me to get back to them to start working with them to get it done." Mr. Fields continued with his comments and remarked, "Based on the RV (Recreational Vehicle) and boat storage concept, that is not a high traffic generating `Use' -but it's still an issue that they would have to take up at the design stage. Maximum cul-de-sac length from the Site Plan, it was about 1300 feet was the cul-de-sac length, the maximum allowed by our Code is 800 feet. So, that would have to be a deviation that would be incorporated by Developer's Agreement." Discussion. City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese mentioned, "One other alternative that we could do under the existing Code is -it's called a Restricted Re-Zoning process. We may be able to craft - an Ordinance that would allow the proposed `Use' for the storage of Recreational Vehicles, Boats, and Trailers, as either a `Permitted' or `Conditional Use' under `C-2 Zoning' and re-zone the property accordingly and impose restrictions on that re-zoning according to your Code." Further discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 4 OF 18 Mr. Randy Stevenson, ASLA, AICP, Director, Community Development Department addressed the City Commission. With further comments, Ms. Boswell said, "For the wall, we are proposing a concrete finish and then of course the plantings incorporated over that." Mr. Goff explained, "We're working on a partnership with the County as far as who is responsible for the fig and who is maintaining it. We're asking the County to take care of that, even though the plant bodies themselves are going to be right on the property line. The wall actually is going to sit about -fifteen to eighteen inches (15 - 18") inside of the property line because the footer extends out into -within three inches (3 ") of the property line." Furthermore, Mr. Goff noted, "It's going to be a phased in over aforty-two (42) month period that this wall comes up out of the ground; the creeping fig comes up out of the ground; and then the County comes in and takes out -whatever trees that they're going to take out and I'm not sure that in -that ten foot (10') area along the front, judging from where I've seen the property line to be, that there will still be some of those blackjack oaks and scrub oaks that will be left in that ten foot (10') area, that they will just supplement. All of that is not going to be clear-cut, or shouldn't be; but again, that is an agreement that you're going to make with -Seminole County. Once we give them the property, that's between you and them and how you determine in working with the County, on how that Trail is going to be designed." Discussion. Mr. Antoine Khoury, P.E., Assistant County Engineer, Seminole County Public Works, 520 West Lake Mary Boulevard, Suite 200, Sanford, Florida: addressed the City Commission. Further discussion. Tape 2/Side A With additional discussion, Ms. Boswell stated, "We are interested in working with the City on the Restricted Re-zoning Process and we're amenable to exploring that and working out the issues." Manager McLemore asked, "What is the timeframe, you think Anthony [Attorney Garganese] for going through the appropriate Ordinance changes or Land Use changes, Comp[rehensive] Plan changes, that kind of thing?" CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 5 OF 18 Attorney Garganese responded, "Both approaches would require a Hearing before the Land Planning Agency. There would be a series of Ordinances that they would have to consider and make a Recommendation to you before you can have your first Hearing. And then you would have a - possibly a series of Legislative changes, where you change the Text to the Code and then you can have a series of Quasi-Judicial Hearings where you actually re-zone specific pieces of property. So, you're looking at, probably best case scenario, and plus you are going to need an Application of course, of sixty (60), ninety (90) days, maybe one hundred and twenty (120) days on the long end, if everybody does their part and moves this forward." Manager McLemore then inquired, "Is it the Consensus of the Commission that you would start on this restricted Zoning Ordinance or is there a Consensus there? We need to get that first decision point that allows us to move." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." "I MOVE WE PROCEED WITH THE RE-ZONING EFFORTS AS ANTHONY [GARGANESE) JUST OUTLINED." MOTION BY DEPUTY MAYOR GILMORE. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BROWN. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER McGINNIS NOTED, "RESTRICTED." VOTE: DEPUTY MAYOR GILMORE: AYE COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE COMMISSIONER BROWN: AYE COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Commissioner McGinnis asked, "Would this cover - a Motion for you to bring back to us alternative, creative methods?" Attorney Garganese replied, "Well, one you would actually direct a Text change to your `Non-Conforming Use' Code, that's the latter option. The other option would be your preference -would be to actually make this `Use' an authorized `Use' in the `I-1 Zoning' District; and that would apply to everybody who has that Zoning designation. A recycling facility would be a `Permitted Use'." Mayor Bush asked, "What is the creative one?" Attorney Garganese explained, "There are a couple of schools of thoughts regarding `Non-Conforming Use', `Non-Conforming Uses', generally the rule is to encourage that they go away someday and you just basically let them exist as they currently are. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 6 OF 18 There is another school of thought - `Well that is great', but these `Non-Conforming Uses' can go on forever unless you amortize them. So, from a matter of public policy, sometimes it makes good sense to allow these `Non-Conforming Uses' that are here to stay, to come in and modify their Site Plan to make it more compatible and more - economically viable in their particular situation. And, we don't currently have any regulations on the books that would allow the modification of `Non-Conforming Uses' under those limited circumstances; but we could craft some regulation that opens the door to allow somebody to come in from a Special Permit standpoint and make their `Non- conforming Use' site more compatible." Manager McLemore mentioned, "That second alternative gives the Commission more control." Attorney Garganese added, "It's your call. I mean it doesn't open the door for -another recycling facility in any of your Industrial areas. If that's not an issue for you then you make it a `Permitted Use' for all - or a `Conditional Use' for all." Discussion. Manager McLemore noted, "I would just want to try to expedite things. Maybe if you could give Anthony (Garganese) the go ahead to develop that Ordinance language and bring it back to you for review." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Good." "I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DIRECT THE CITY ATTORNEY TO COME BACK WITH THE DIRECTION THAT WILL ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO; WITH ALSO SOME CONSIDERATION AS TO THE VALUE OF HIS BUSINESS AND PROPERTY AT THE TIME OF SALE; SO THAT WE CAN MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHAT THE MOST FAIREST THING TO DO FOR THIS BUSINESS OWNER IS." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BROWN. ATTORNEY GARGANESE MENTIONED, "SECOND ALTERNATIVE, GETTING WITH THE..." COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "...WAS THAT THE CRAFTING? DOES THAT MEAN THE CRAFTING OF SOMETHING." SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER KREBS. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER KREBS ASKED COMMISSIONER BROWN, "ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WHAT ANTHONY (GARGANESE) WAS TALKING ABOUT, CRAFTING SOMETHING SO THAT THE COMMISSION RETAINS CONTROL AS TO IF SOMEONE DOES COME IN, THEY CAN ALLOW SOMETHING IF THEY SO CHOOSE, BUT IF THEY DON'T - IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE..." COMMISSIONER BROWN SAID, "...NO. IT IS NOT." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 7 OF 18 ATTORNEY GARGANESE NOTED, "IT WAS TO ADDRESS THE EXISTING `USE'." COMMISSIONER BROWN SAID, "RIGHT. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER WE SET IN AN ORDINANCE, OR THAT ANTHONY (GARGANESE) COMES BACK WITH A PROPOSAL FOR AN ORDINANCE, IT ALLOWS BART (PHILLIPS) TO DO WHAT HE NEEDS TO DO ON THE PROPERTY, CONDUCT HIS BUSINESS, GROW IT, EXPAND IT, BEAUTIFY IT IN A WAY THAT WILL NOT INJURE HIS ABILITY TO SELL THAT BUSINESS AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE. IT IS A FREE ENTERPRISE, AND I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT THE COMMISSION IN A POSITION OF BART (PHILLIPS) LOOKING FOR A SALE FOR THAT BUSINESS, AND SOMEBODY INTERESTED IN BUYING THAT BUSINESS AND CARRYING IT ON BECAUSE BART (PHILLIPS) IS ABANDONING THAT BUSINESS THROUGH SALE, NOT BEING ABLE TO DO THAT WHICH WOULD AFFECT HIS LONG TERM ABILITY TO REALIZE GAIN ON THAT BUSINESS." COMMISSIONER KREBS MENTIONED, "SO, THEN YOU ARE JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT SPECIFICALLY APPLIES ONLY TO BART (PHILLIPS)..." COMMISSIONER BROWN SAID, "...YES..." COMMISSIONER KREBS CONTINUED, "...AND NOT TO ANYBODY." COMMISSIONER MILLER STATED, "THE CURRENT `USE' IS `NON- CONFORMING'." ATTORNEY GARGANESE SAID, "RIGHT." COMMISSIONER MILLER SAID, "SO, WE ARE GOING TO MEMORIALIZE IT AS `CONFORMING'?" COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "NO." ATTORNEY GARGANESE SAID, "I THINK WE WOULD TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH WHERE THERE COULD BE SOME SORT OF SPECIAL PERMIT THAT'S ISSUED TO ACCOMMODATE THE EXPANSION MODIFICATION, BEAUTIFICATION OF A `NON-CONFORMING USE' UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES AND NOT INJURE THE PROPERTY OWNER OR IMPEDE THE PROPERTY OWNER'S ABILITY TO SELL." COMMISSIONER MILLER SAID, "I UNDERSTAND THAT ASPECT OF IT, BUT WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS ORIGINALLY ZONED, IT WAS ZONED WHAT - `C-2' OR `INDUSTRIAL'..." ATTORNEY GARGANESE NOTED, "...`C-2'..." COMMISSIONER MILLER CONTINUED, "...AND SO AT SOME POINT, IT BECAME A RECYCLING FUNCTION WHICH WAS NEVER ENVISIONED FOR THAT PROPERTY - IT BECAME A `NON-CONFORMING USE' AT THAT POINT, AND SO NOW, WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO IS CRAFT SOME LEGISLATION SO THAT WHEN THE APPLICANT SELLS THE PROPERTY EVENTUALLY, HE WILL BE ABLE TO SELL IT AS `INDUSTRIAL', `HEAVY' OR `LIGHT INDUSTRIAL'..." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 8 OF 18 ATTORNEY GARGANESE SAID, "...HE CAN DO THAT NOW..." MANAGER McLEMORE ADDED, "...HE CAN DO THAT NOW." ATTORNEY GARGANESE POINTED OUT, "HE COULD SELL THAT PROPERTY NOW..." COMMISSIONER MILLER NOTED, "...SO, WHY ARE WE THEN INJURING - IF WE DON'T INJURE HIS PROFITABILITY..." ATTORNEY GARGANESE SAID, "...BECAUSE RIGHT NOW UNDER THE CODE -BECAUSE IT IS A `NON-CONFORMING USE' THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT LIMITATIONS ON THE EXPANSION AND MODIFICATION OF THAT SITE. SO, ANY KIND OF - IMPEDIMENT TO MAKING THAT PROPERTY MORE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE BECAUSE OF THE RESTRICTIONS AS A `NON-CONFORMING USE' - WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS YOU COULD CRAFT LEGISLATION THAT ALLOWS EXPANSION AND MODIFICATION UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, LIKE IN EXCHANGE FOR MAKING THIS SITE MORE COMPATIBLE AND MORE VIABLE, BUT IT STILL HAS THAT `NON- CONFORMING USE' STATUS." FURTHER DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER MILLER SAID, "IF WE CHANGE THIS TO INCLUDE THE ENTIRE AREA, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WHAT BORDERS (STATE ROAD) 419, ON THE - I GUESS, THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE POWER EASEMENT, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO THINK THAT THE CITIZENS OF WINTER SPRINGS ARE GOING TO LOOK KINDLY ON THAT -WHOLE AREA -PLUS THE LOTS IN THE BACK TOO, IF THAT IS GOING TO BE INCLUDED. SO, I WOULD THINK IF WE WERE TO ADDRESS THAT AREA RIGHT THERE, THAT IS ONE THING. SO, I THINK WHAT IS BEING SAID HERE RIGHT NOW IS WE ARE GOING TO GIVE OUR BLESSING OR OUR APPROVAL FOR THE ENTIRE AREA TO BE USED FOR THE SAME PURPOSE. IS THAT NOT CORRECT? IT COULD ALL BE USED FOR..." ATTORNEY GARGANESE SAID, "...THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE A DECISION YOU WOULD NEED TO MAKE SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE. I AM THINKING ABOUT PUTTING THE PROCEDURAL VEHICLE IN PLACE THAT LETS YOU DO THE RIGHT THING; WHATEVER YOU THINK THE RIGHT THING IS." COMMISSIONER MILLER THEN REMARKED, "I THINK THE RIGHT THING IS THAT BACK LOT IS WHAT I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. NOW, WE ARE GOING TO GO AND COME UP WITH SOME VERBIAGE AND AUTHORIZE THE ENTIRE LOCATION, HIS ENTIRE PROPERTIES TO BE USED FOR THE SAME PURPOSE. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 9 OF 18 IN OTHER WORDS, THAT HE COULD TRIPLE THE SIZE OF HIS BUSINESS RIGHT NOW, JUST ON RECYCLING METAL AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT -WHAT WOULD BE SO BAD ABOUT IT? PROBABLY NOTHING. BUT, I AM NOT SO SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND THE -VALUE OF IT. WE ALSO REPRESENT THE CITY TOO, AND THERE WOULD BE A LOT MORE NOISE, A LOT MORE ACTIVITY." WITH FURTHER DISCUSSION, COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "ANTHONY (GARGANESE), WILL WHAT COMMISSIONER BROWN HAS SUGGESTED - DOES THAT ADDRESS WHAT YOU WERE SAYING? I AM JUST A LITTLE CONFUSED AND I KNOW THAT SOMETIMES PEOPLE UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER IN A DIFFERENT WAY." ATTORNEY GARGANESE STATED, "RIGHT." COMMISSIONER KREBS THEN SAID, "OR IS THERE A BETTER SOLUTION THAT YOU HAVE THAT WOULD ADDRESS WHAT COMMISSIONER BROWN ALSO IS ASKING?" MANAGER McLEMORE SAID, "WHAT ANTHONY (GARGANESE) IS PROPOSING TO YOU IS -REMEMBER WE HAD THIS ISSUE OF WHAT IS `LIGHT INDUSTRIAL'; AND WE'RE SAYING THAT UNDER WHAT ANTHONY (GARGANESE) IS SAYING, SALVAGE IS NOT A PERMITTED `USE' UNDER `LIGHT INDUSTRIAL'. BUT, IT IS ALLOWED IN THIS AREA UNDER WHICH YOU HAVE A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH BART (PHILLIPS); BUT WHAT IT DOES SAY IS YOU CAN WORK WITH THIS AREA WHERE HE WOULD WANT TO EXPAND OR WHATEVER, UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS THAT YOU LAY OUT, BUT IT DOESN'T GIVE ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE ALL THROUGH HERE, THAT RIGHT TO START A SALVAGE ENTITY. SO, YOU KIND OF GET THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS IN THAT SITUATION. IT DOES NOT EXTEND WHAT IS NORMALLY A `HEAVY INDUSTRIAL USE' THROUGHOUT WHAT IS REALLY A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL PARK, BUT IT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THERE IS A `USE' HERE THAT'S `NON- CONFORMING' THAT ALLOWS HIM TO RETAIN THE COMMERCIAL VIABILITY OF THAT `USE' AND UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS IT COULD BE EXPANDED UNDER CONDITIONS THAT YOU WOULD SET OUT TO MAKE IT MORE COMPATIBLE. SO, IT GIVES YOU BARGAINING AND LEVERAGES OF WHAT IS CONTAINED IN HERE WITHOUT AFFECTING ALL THESE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT ARE IN THAT `LIGHT INDUSTRIAL' ZONE..." COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "...AND PASSED OVER TO A NEW OWNER SHOULD ONE..." MANAGER McLEMORE NOTED, "...YES." ATTORNEY GARGANESE ADDED, "YES." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 10 OF 18 ATTORNEY GARGANESE THEN EXPLAINED, "AS A `NON-CONFORMING USE', THERE ARE SO MANY LIMITATIONS ON EXPANSION AND MODIFICATION, THERE'S REALLY NO INCENTIVE. I AM SAYING, PUT A PROCEDURAL VEHICLE IN YOUR `NON-CONFORMING USE' CODE THAT COULD MAKE IT, PROVIDE AN INCENTIVE AND THE WIN-WIN WOULD BE THEY WOULD GET A MORE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE SITE, YOU GET A FAR MORE COMPATIBLE BUSINESS TO THE SURROUNDING AREA INCLUDING THE SCHOOL AND -PERHAPS THE RESIDENTIAL AREA. GIVES A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBILITY ON TERMS THAT YOU THINK ARE APPROPRIATE. IF THE TERMS ARE NOT APPROPRIATE, THEN IT STAYS AS IS." COMMISSIONER KREBS THEN SAID, "AND THEN THAT ALLOWS US TO VOTE FOR THE WALL AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF. THAT IS THE IMPRESSION?" ATTORNEY GARGANESE ADDED, "POTENTIALLY YES. PUTTING UP A WALL TO BUFFER THAT FACILITY FROM THE SCHOOL MAKES IT MORE COMPATIBLE." ATTORNEY GARGANESE SUGGESTED, "THAT IS ONE EXAMPLE. ADJUSTING THE ROADWAYS OR ENTRANCE WAYS COULD MAKE IT MORE COMPATIBLE - RELOCATING STORMWATER FACILITIES COULD BE ONE WAY TO MAKE IT MORE COMPATIBLE." COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "BUT, YOU ARE SAYING THAT THAT IS NOT THE SAME MOTION -THAT IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE MOTION THAT..." ATTORNEY GARGANESE STATED, "...I WON'T SPEAK FOR COMMISSIONER BROWN, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE HAD INTENDED BY HIS MOTION." COMMISSIONER KREBS RESPONDED, "COMMISSIONER BROWN?" MAYOR BUSH SAID, "HE SAID YES." COMMISSIONER McGINNIS REMARKED, "I WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT ANTHONY (GARGANESE) MOVING FORWARD WITH IT AS YOU REFERRED TO IT AS A PROCEDURAL VEHICLE." COMMISSIONER MILLER NOTED, "COMPATIBILITY ISSUE - THAT WOULD ALLOW THE WALL TO BE BUILT AROUND THE SITE BASICALLY TO THE ENTRANCE ON -WADE [STREET] -YOU MENTIONED THE RETENTION POND IN THE BACK. THAT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED HERE." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 11 OF 18 ATTORNEY GARGANESE SAID, "LET'S LOOK AT THE NEXUS. THIS PROPERTY OVER HERE AND THEN THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE IS `NON- CONFORMING', SO - IF YOU PUT A PROCEDURAL VEHICLE IN PLACE IN TERMS OF TRYING TO MAKE THIS MORE COMPATIBLE -WHAT WOULD YOU DO? IN BUILDING A WALL, BUFFERING THIS BORDER OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE SCHOOL IS ONE WAY TO MAKE IT MORE COMPATIBLE AND SOMETHING TO OFFER IN EXCHANGE FOR - ALLOWING HIM TO DO SOMETHING ON THIS SITE TO MAKE IT MORE ECONOMICALLY VIABLE FOR HIM. TRY TO MAKE IT A WIN-WIN AND I THINK THERE IS A LEGITIMATE PUBLIC PURPOSE. OTHERWISE, THAT PROPERTY COULD STAY LIKE THAT FOR FIFTY (50) YEARS." COMMISSIONER BROWN ADDED, "I WOULD ASSUME THAT ANTHONY (GARGANESE) IS NOT GOING TO DO THIS IN A CLOSET AND THAT HE IS GOING TO WORK CLOSELY WITH BART (PHILLIPS) AND WITH BOB (GOFF) TO COME UP WITH AN AGREEMENT THAT WILL UPHOLD THE CITY'S INTEREST AND BE PALATABLE TO ALL THE COMMISSIONERS AND ALSO TO UPHOLD THE PROPERTY RIGHTS AND OWNERSHIP ENDEAVORS -THAT WAS MY ORIGINAL INTENT WAS THAT ANTHONY (GARGANESE) WOULD GO OFF AND START WORKING ON THAT WITH THESE FOLKS TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT IS COMPATIBLE TO EVERYBODY." VOTE: COMMISSIONER BROWN: AYE COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: NAY COMMISSIONER MILLER: NAY DEPUTY MAYOR GILMORE: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Mr. Goff said, "With what you have done so far today, is there anything Mr. McLemore, that would prevent us from making Application to vacate the road and pull Building Permits, be reviewed for Building Permits on the first section of the wall? Because the reason that I ask this is I am trying to make sure that I am building that wall in this location from here when school is out of session during the summer. And if I don't get these things started now, then I won't be able to - I do not want to do this when school is in session." C[TY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 12 OF 18 Manager McLemore stated, "My concern is, that I am assuming that the question you have to ask, let's suppose you go through Zoning and because of the huge uproar, the Commission says, `No, we're not going to Re-zone it'. What kind of investment would Bart (Phillips) -would he have already wanted to make in that situation?" Mr. Goff said, "That is not an issue. We are committed to providing security between us and the school. That the -School Board promised to do this and then they promised the City they would this and they didn't. So, that is not an issue. We want to build this wall..." Manager McLemore said, "...You have to go through the normal Permitting process." Mr. Goff said, "Yes. Absolutely. And we're prepared to put that permit in place on Monday." Manager McLemore said, "He has to go through the whole permitting process." Mr. Goff stated, "Absolutely." Manager McLemore noted, "He has to get a building permit." Mr. Goff noted, "Yes. But there is nothing as far as that as long as we understand that whatever happens with whatever Zoning issues come about later, we want to be able to put this wall in now because that is an issue of security between us and the school and it's also that the people are coming into the school property and cutting the School Board's fence and coming in and stealing at night." Manager McLemore said, "The only thing we have to be careful of is that we don't create a presumption of Contract Zoning. That's the biggest issue. So, that's an Attorney call." Mr. Goff added, "And that is an absolute separate issue. We want to vacate that property so that we can put the wall in and build the wall, that section." Attorney Garganese said, "Let's assume that he had no interest in re-zoning the property, it would be a basically a permit to build the wall slab for the first property and a vacation of aright-of--way - and a Variance. I mean you would just treat that independent. Now, I will tell you under the Code -that there would be some limited in scope Site Plan to show the wall and the location and the Survey." Manager McLemore added, "That's going to get you into the design of the wall..." Attorney Garganese then stated, "...Get you into the design of the wall, but you can do all that under the current process without addressing Zoning, but you have some hurdles." Mr. Goff said, "Exactly. We are just trying to get that part of it started because I want to build that wall when kids are out of school." Commissioner McGinnis asked Attorney Garganese to clarify the recent action of the City Commission. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 13 OF 18 Attorney Garganese stated, "There were two (2) directions to me. One (1), I am going to on the (State Road) 419 property, work on the `C-2' Restricted Re-Zoning issue that we've discussed and then with respect to the recycling property, I've been asked to consider putting together an Ordinance that would establish that procedural vehicle -and I would work with Mr. Phillips and his Consultants regarding their specific interests and craft a Code that the City Commission could consider adopting that -may address all of their interests and as well as maybe others - from a general City policy standpoint. And generally, I think the direction is to allow under certain circumstances `Non-Conforming Uses' to grow, expand and beautify their sites under limited circumstances." In other City business, Mayor Bush remarked that, "The Winter Springs Rotary Club is having an auction which they use to raise money for scholarships for students from - Winter Springs High School. They have asked - is there anything that the City Commission could give that might be something they could be auction off? And they made a recommendation, a parking permit for all City activities for a year. It wouldn't cost us anything. One person would buy it and the money would go to the Fourth of July, etc., etc. "SO MOVED. MOTION BY COMMISSIONER BROWN. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. DISCUSSION. MAYOR BUSH REMARKED, "A MOVE AND SECOND THAT WE WILL DO THAT -THE AUCTION IS TOMORROW, BY THE WAY." VOTE: COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE COMMISSIONER BROWN: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR GILMORE: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Next, Mayor Bush stated, "Mayor (Bob) Goff and Mayor (John) Maingot from Longwood and myself have discussed how there might be some way that our cities could cooperate in the reduction of some of the costs of some of our services in the Fire Department. Longwood and Casselberry have both passed Resolutions in their respective Boards to ask their Manager and their Fire Chief's to work together to see if there is any way that we can reduce costs by sharing whatever." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 14 OF 18 Mayor Bob Goff, Ciry of Casselberry: explained, "Ask the pros that are doing the job to think outside the box. Figure out whether or not it is from sharing Training Officers for example, to creating a Fire District. We are all looking at Fire Fees -Longwood and Casselberry - so, we're all following down the same path. So, this is just an idea as we go into the Budget season is to see whether or not that the smartest among us, the Managers and the Chiefs, the professionals -can come up with a way that could potentially save all of our citizens on their daily bills." Commissioner McGinnis said, "I certainly do support any kind of creative thinking that can lead toward more efficient, more economical and maybe better consolidation and in the end better results. So, yes..." Mayor Bush said, "...Can we have a Motion to..." "...SO MOVED." MOTION BY COMMISSIONER McGINNIS. SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BROWN. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS GOING TO SAY." MAYOR GOFF SAID, "WE DIDN'T PASS A RESOLUTION AS SUCH. WE JUST DISCUSSED IT AND DIRECTED OUR CITY MANAGER TO MAKE IT HAPPEN IF WINTER SPRINGS CHOSE TO JOIN IN." MAYOR BUSH ASKED, "COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE THE MOTION TO THAT EFFECT - SO, THERE IS NO RESOLUTION? IT WOULD JUST BE REQUESTING THE MANAGER AND THE FIRE CHIEF..." COMMISSIONER KREBS REMARKED, "...BUT HE SAID FIRE FEES. I HEARD HIM SAY FIRE FEES AND I JUST WONDERED IF THAT IS WHAT HE MEANT." COMMISSIONER McGINNIS SAID, "THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FIRE FEES. THIS IS ABOUT SERVICE..." COMMISSIONER KREBS ADDED, "...HE SAID FIRE FEES." COMMISSIONER McGINNIS THEN STATED, "...HE SAID THEY ARE MOVING FORWARD WITH ONE." COMMISSIONER KREBS SAID, "...HE SAID ANYTHING TO INCLUDE WHATEVER, INCLUDING FIRE FEES." MAYOR GOFF NOTED, "I JUST MENTIONED, MADAM COMMISSIONER, WE ARE ALL FOLLOWING DOWN THE SAME PATH, SO WE'RE NOT OFTEN ON DIFFERENT WAVES NOW. FIRE FEES IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE LOOKING AT THREE (3) DIFFERENT CITIES GOING IN THREE (3) DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS AT THIS PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME. BUT, FIRE FEES MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT, MIGHT NOT. CAN'T SAY." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE I S OF l 8 MAYOR BUSH EXPLAINED, "IT IS A WAY FOR THE THREE (3) CITIES TO SHARE RESOURCES TO POSSIBLY TO SAVE MONEY. THAT IS IT; REGARDLESS OF HOW WE HANDLE THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS." VOTE: COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR GILMORE: AYE COMMISSIONER BROWN: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Mayor Bush called a Recess at 6: Ol p. m. Mayor Bush reconvened the Special Meeting at 6:11 p. m. REGULAR 601. Office Of The City Manager Requesting The City Commission To Consider A Termination Review Procedure In The Alternative To That Provided In The Fire Union Contract. Mr. Jeffrey E. Mandel, Esquire, Fisher & Phillips, LLP, 1250 Lincoln Plaza, 300 South Orange Avenue, Orlando, Florida: spoke on this Agenda Item. Discussion. Mr. Richard Siwica, Esquire, Egan, Lev &Siwica, P.A., 231 East Colonial Drive, Orlando, Florida: addressed the City Commission. Further discussion ensued. Tape 2/Side B Discussion. Mr. Siwica said, "So, that's an issue that you don't need to, whether or not that was an offer or that is nothing you need to get into today. Because we have agreed to use Dorothy Green, but we've reserved our rights if we see an issue to come back before you and say, because we're trying to go forward with this. We have somebody's career at stake here. We've reserved the right to hold you to your deal, which you guys will decide." Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 16 OF 18 Manager McLemore said, "What I suggest to you is that Dottie (Dorothy Green) was on our list, and I am entirely comfortable with Dottie (Dorothy Green)." COMMISSIONER BROWN ASKED, "WHAT WOULD THEY NEED TO DO THAT BACKGROUND CHECK AND IF THEY COME BACK TO US AND SAY `NO' THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, WE WILL REVERT TO THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT LANGUAGE." COMMISSIONER McGINNIS SAID, "THAT'S GOOD..." COMMISSIONER BROWN STATED, "...WOULD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE TO YOU? MR. SIWICA RESPONDED, "SURE." COMMISSIONER BROWN ADDED, "I MAKE IT A MOTION." DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER BROWN STATED, "THE ORIGINAL MOTION WAS THAT WE ALLOW THE ATTORNEY FOR THE UNION, I SAID SEVEN (7) DAYS, WHATEVER THE APPROPRIATE TIME WOULD BE TO DO THEIR BACKGROUND CHECK ON..." MANAGER McLEMORE REMARKED, "...DOTTIE (DOROTHY) GREEN." COMMISSIONER BROWN CONTINUED, "...DOTTIE (DOROTHY) GREEN, AND IF THEY COME BACK AND SAY THAT SHE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, THEN WE REVERT TO THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT LANGUAGE." SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER MILLER. DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER MILLER STATED, "THE MOTION AS I UNDERSTAND IT IS YOU DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE IN A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD, CERTAIN WHICH I THINK WAS WHAT A WEEK AND AFTER THAT, WHATEVER THAT DECISION TURNS OUT TO BE, THAT'S IT, IT IS FINAL. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO COME BACK AND CHALLENGE IT AND THEN BRING IT BACK TO US OR WE GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT AND - I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU AGREE TO WHAT I UNDERSTAND THE AGREEMENT TO BE SO THAT - YOU DON'T COME BACK AND SAY `YES, WE ALWAYS DESERVE THE RIGHT TO BRING THIS BACK BECAUSE - IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTOOD'. IT IS SEVEN (7) DAYS - IF YOU AGREE..." MR. SIWICA SAID, "...I AM GOING OUT OF TOWN NEXT WEEK, SO CAN WE MAKE IT LIKE TEN (10) DAYS?" COMMISSIONER MILLER STATED, "A WEEK, TWO (2) WEEKS, I DON'T REALLY CARE. IF YOU WANT SIX (6) MONTHS, I THINK THAT IS REALLY OUT OF - IF IT'S ONE (1) WEEK, TWO (2) WEEKS; BUT ON THE DATE CERTAIN, THAT'S IT. YOU LIVE - AND WE LIVE WITH THE OUTCOME." FURTHER DISCUSSION. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 17 OF 18 MAYOR BUSH SAID, "I THINK THE MOTION IS CLEAR." MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "THE MOTION IS CLEAR." FURTHERMORE, MANAGER McLEMORE ASKED, "CAN WE DO THIS BY FILING WRITTEN INFORMATION WITH THE CITY? NO NEED TO COME BACK TO THE CITY COMMISSION IF HE SENDS A LETTER AND SAYS `WE DON'T AGREE'; THEN WE KNOW WE ARE GOING ON WITH THE CONTRACT." MAYOR BUSH NOTED, "THAT IS THE MOTION." COMMISSIONER KREBS COMMENTED, "ON PART OF THIS ISSUE -YOU HAVE CHOSEN SOMEONE. RON (McLEMORE), YOU HAVE SOMEONE, RIGHT." IS THIS A THREE (3) PERSON PANEL?" MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "YES." COMMISSIONER KREBS THEN SAID, "AND THEN THE THIRD ONE IS..." MANAGER McLEMORE STATED, "...DOTTIE (DOROTHY) GREEN...." COMMISSIONER KREBS ADDED, "...IS DOTTIE (DOROTHY) GREEN." COMMISSIONER MILLER REMARKED, "THE DATE WOULD BE THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THE 18TH DAY OF APRIL. THAT IS EXACTLY TWO (2) FRIDAYS FROM RIGHT NOW." MR. SIWICA SAID, "YES, SIR." COMMISSIONER MILLER ADDED, "SO THAT WOULD BE IN THE MOTION THEN, THE DATE CERTAIN IS 18 APRIL (2008)." VOTE: COMMISSIONER BROWN: AYE DEPUTY MAYOR GILMORE: AYE COMMISSIONER KREBS: AYE COMMISSIONER MILLER: AYE COMMISSIONER McGINNIS: AYE MOTION CARRIED. Manager McLemore distributed to the City Commission a document entitled, "A REPORT ANALYZING THE IMPACTS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF FIRE ASSESSMENTS IN THE CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS", dated Apri12, 2008. In regards to the Public Hearing on April 14th 2008, Mayor Bush spoke of being out of town as well as the Manager, and stated, "My thought is, would you want to put off -our next Public Hearing until the 28th [Apri12008] or not?" Commissioner McGinnnis noted, "Let's move forward with it." Commissioner Robert S. Miller said, "Let's leave it the way it is." Commissioner McGinnnis added, "Okay." No objections were voiced. Mayor Bush said, "Good enough." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING -APRIL 4, 2008 PAGE 18 OF 18 Commissioner Krebs said, "I would really like to thank you for getting this to us earlier enough, so that we can take the time to digest the information we need to digest for the next Meeting." ADJOURNMENT Mayor Bush adjourned the Special Meeting at 6:47 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: A EA LORENZO-LUACES, CMC C Y CLERK .APPROVED: .MAC°C~R JOHN r'. SUS NOTE: These Minutes were approved at the April 14, 2008 Regular City Commission Meeting.