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HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2003 09 15 City Commission Workshop Minutes CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 15, 2003 CALL TO ORDER The Workshop of Monday, September 15, 2003 of the City Commission was called to order by Mayor John F. Bush at 6:03 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor Robert S. Miller, present Commissioner Michael S. Blake, arrived at 7:31 p.m. Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr., present Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present Commissioner David W. McLeod, absent City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, arrived at 6:10 p.m. City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, arrived at 6:06 p.m. A moment of silence was held, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. Under Agenda Changes, Mayor Bush announced "The other Item has been pulled, on the Accessory Structures and Buildings, so we will not cover that tonight." AGENDA 1. Community Development Department Requests That The City Commission Review And Make Recommendation Regarding Amending The List Of Permitted Uses Under The "C-2 General Commercial" And "1-1 Light Industrial" Zoning Districts. Mayor Bush stated, "I did have one question which she [Eloise Sahlstrom, AICP, ASLA, Senior Planner, Community Development Department] straightened out for me and that was the Code that she used - where it says Blue indicates a use not currently is not permitted or under any Zoning District and she explained that to me so it is a new Use in other words." Ms. Sahlstrom introduced the Agenda Item. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 2 OF 18 Attorney Anthony A. Garganese arrived at 6:06 p.m. Ms. Sahlstrom spoke of categories and stated, "'AUTOMOTIVE tires' is an existing category and I thought it maybe should be revised to say 'Tire Sales'." City Manager Ronald W McLemore arrived at 6: I 0 p.m. Ms. Sahlstrom advised the City Commission that the Planning and Zoning Board/Local Planning Agency Members "Endorsed the list". Mayor Bush stated, "Your chart is very good Eloise [Sahlstrom]. I find it easy to read." Landscaping Services was discussed next. Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr. stated, "I do not see any problem." In regards to adding - 'NURSERIES, PLANTS, TREES; WHOLESALE & GREENHOUSES' into the 'Industrial' Zoning, Mayor Bush stated, "It would make sense to me. It could go either place. Is everybody okay with that one?" Commissioner Sally McGinnis stated, "Yes." Mayor Bush said, "The next one would be 'RADIO & TV Broadcasting Studios (No Towers)', she is also recommending that also be included in the 'Industrial' [Zoning]. Next one down is 'BEVERAGE SYSTEM SALES (Wholesale)'. Evidentially that is something we did not have before?" Ms. Sahlstrom answered, "That language was not in there before." Mayor Bush said, "So she is recommending that go into the 'Industrial' [Zoning]." Deputy Mayor Robert S. Miller stated, "The 'RADIO & TV Broadcasting Studios (No Towers)', we had that also shown in 'C-1 '?" Mayor Bush said, '''C-2', 'C-1', and 'Town Center'." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "I guess that would be a Permitted Use if we were in a studio, in a building without a Tower." Mayor Bush stated further, "She has added the 'BEVERAGE SYSTEM SALES (Wholesale)' and recommending to go to 'Industrial' - I think that would make sense. And then 'BEVERAGE SYSTEM SALES (Wholesale)' smaller than 2,500 square feet- to allow that in 'C-2'." Ms. Sahlstrom suggested, "If you want to add language to say 'Non-alcoholic' that might make it clear." Mayor Bush clarified, "So on the 'BEVERAGE SYSTEM SALES (Wholesale)' - to both of these items will be added 'Non-alcoholic'? Is that what you are saying Eloise [Sahlstrom]? On both of them?" Ms. Sahlstrom answered, "Right." Mayor Bush clarified, "So that is one (1) change, just adding 'Non-alcoholic'." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 3 OF 18 "CATERING" was next discussed. Mr. John Baker, AICP, Senior Planner, Community Development Department advised the City Commission, "I think what is real important to this discussion is what do you see your 'Industrial' as being. Do you want to keep it a pure 'Industrial' area that has purely 'Industrial' uses, or do you see it as something else because if you add Nurseries and Catering and other stuff like that to go into your Industrial, then you are going to preclude having really 'Industrial' uses there." Mayor Bush stated, "Catering then would be only in 'C-2' as she [Eloise Sahlstrom] has got on her chart there." The recommendation of listing "ICE, Wholesale" as "I-I" and "C-2" was discussed. Commissioner McGinnis said, "I think it is purely 'Industrial'." Commissioner Martinez said, "I agree," Mayor Bush stated, "Aye." In regards to "GAS, Bottled", Commissioner Martinez said, "That also should be 'Industrial'. It is very dangerous," Commissioner McGinnis said, "This does not define what it does. It just says bottled gas. It is not clear enough for me." With further discussion, Mayor Bush clarified, "If it is a Distributor it goes in 'Industrial', if it is a Retailer, it could go in 'C-2'. Does the Commission agree with that?" Commissioner McGinnis stated, "Yes." Mayor Bush then spoke of "GROCERS, Wholesale" and said, "Recommending that also be included in 'Industrial'." Commissioner Martinez responded, "I have no problem with it. " Mayor Bush said, "Next one is 'MEAT & PRODUCE DISTRIBUTORS (Wholesale)' - 'Industrial'." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Okay, 'MEAT & PRODUCE DISTRIBUTORS (Wholesale)' in 'C-2'?" Mayor Bush said, "Currently it is permitted in 'C-2' - put it in both actually." Commissioner McGinnis said, "I do not like that in 'C- 2'." Mayor Bush said, "I think what the Commissioner is saying here is - if it is a Wholesaler it ought to be in 'Industrial'." Commissioner McGinnis answered, "Yes." After discussion, Mayor Bush summarized, "I think on the Wholesalers - what the Commissioners are saying is there needs to be a delineation of size, If you are going to allow it in 'C-2', it needs to be a smaller operation." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "We had one qualified up in the top - under 2,500 square feet." Mayor Bush said, "Yes, that is true. Does that make sense to use 2,500 there as well?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Okay, that is fine." In regards to "SPICES and Spice Packaging", Commissioner Martinez said, "That is okay, it is very aromatic." Mayor Bush said, "Everybody is okay with that one then?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE40F 18 Mayor Bush stated, "'CARPETS, RUGS, LINOLEUM SUPPLIERS, CONTRACTORS', adding it into 'Industrial'." Commissioner McGinnis asked, "Is that Retail or Wholesale?" Mayor Bush asked, "Should that be a Wholesaler - because again when you are saying you are mixing...." Commissioner Martinez added, ".,. Wholesaler should be 'Industrial' and a Retailer - could be 'C-2'," Mayor Bush said, "Okay, so we create a new category there for 'CARPETS, RUGS, LINOLEUM SUPPLIERS, CONTRACTORS' would be an 'Industrial' and the other just stays as it is." Commissioner McGiJIDis said, "Right." Mayor Bush spoke of "LUMBER & BUILDING Supplies" and said, "So the red [star] would be a category with Wholesale." Next discussed was "MAUNFACTURED HOME SERVICE & REPAIR". Commissioner Martinez said, "It has to be 'Industrial'." Mayor Bush said, "She [Ms. Sahlstrom] is recommending 'Industrial'. Now the clear star means..." Ms. Sahlstrom said, "'Conditional Use', 'Existing Conditional Use'." Mayor Bush asked, "That means it would take Commission approval." Commissioner McGiJIDis said, "Right." Mayor Bush said, "Is that one okay with everybody?" Commissioner McGiJIDis said, "Yes." Commissioner Martinez said, "'Industrial' right - yes." "MOBILE HOME Sales" was discussed next. Mayor Bush asked, "Would you really want a Mobile Homes Sales Office in an Industrial Park?" With further discussion, Mayor Bush spoke of adding the words "No storage" and to "Leave that in 'C-2' only". Deputy Mayor Miller asked, "So how is this going to be worded when it comes back? Is it going to be a showroom?" Commissioner Martinez said, "A sales office." Discussion. Deputy Mayor Miller said, "When this comes back I would like to make sure that - I think what we are all thinking about is an enclosed office where maybe you have print outs, and brochures, and models, but you do not have four (4) or five (5) mobile homes in the showroom." After much discussion, Mayor Bush said, "The only one that I think that - the 'MEAT & PRODUCE DISTRIBUTORS (Wholesale)' - currently that is permitted in 'C-2'." Manager McLemore said, "I would not go along with that." Mayor Bush stated further, "And I think if it is Wholesale, the sense I get from everybody is it should be in 'Industrial'." Commissioner Martinez said, "That is what we decided." Mayor Bush said, "I did not mark it down." Commissioner McGiJIDis said, "I did." Ms. Sahlstrom said, "I marked it when you said' Small scale less than 2,500 square feet'." Mayor Bush then said, "So we are adding a new category there." Furthermore, Mayor Bush then said,' "But again in light of what the [City] Manager just said though, do you want even a small Wholesaler in 'C-2'?" Manager McLemore said, "I think it is great in some communities but I do not think it is what we are trying to do here." Commissioner McGiJIDis said, "No, I do not." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 5 OF 18 "RENT AL Shops" was discussed next. Ms. Sahlstrom said, "This could be equipment rental, or tool rental, or perhaps medical - like if you wanted to rent a wheelchair, hospital bed, or oxygen tank - or tuxedo." Commissioner Martinez said, "Well, then you have to be specific. You cannot blanket just rentals because rentals could be anything really. You do not want to be renting heavy equipment, like the [City] Manager said before, from a 'C-2' business." Ms. Sahlstrom said, "Under 'C-l', the language says 'RENTAL shops' as a Permitted Use so.. .." Commissioner McGinnis said, ". ..That just has to be defined." Manager McLemore added, "Again, you do need further definition. Those things that require outside storage, I do not think you want them in 'C-l' and 'C-2'." Mayor Bush summarized, "That one I think we need more information on it. I think there is not enough there." Mayor Bush then spoke of "CONTRACTORS, CONTRACTOR EQUIPMENT Storage" - recommending that be moved into "'Industrial', it is currently permitted 'in C-2'." Deputy Mayor Miller suggested possibly "Taking it out of 'C-2'''. Planning and Zoning Board/Local Planning Agency Member Rosanne Karr addressed the City Commission regarding "Size limits". Mayor Bush said, "If it is storage it goes in 'Industrial'. But again you can store PC's [Personal Computers] too." Manager McLemore said, "I am talking about outside storage." Mayor Bush said, "Okay, outside storage, that would be a way to define it." Commissioner Martinez said, "And then based on what we heard, we need a more explicit definition of what equipment." Tape l/Side B Discussion developed regarding "Conditional Uses", Mayor Bush said, "I think what you do here, you could go back to P and Z [Planning and Zoning Board/Local Planning Agency] since there are P and Z [Planning and Zoning Board/Local Planning Agency] people here, and they can take it from there." Manager McLemore said, "I think we can come up with language that makes these things fit or not fit." Mayor Bush summarized, "There are kind of two (2) things here. The Manager is saying that what we ought to be doing is coming up with some definitions - or going through these one by one - taking care of definitions. I think I know what you want but I do not know if I can write it down." Manager McLemore said, "What I am saying is let us just walk through them and put the questions out on the table, and then we come back and we will really concentrate on our intent language." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER] 5,2003 PAGE 6 OF]8 Discussion. Mayor Bush questioned why "SHED SALES" were a "Conditional Use" under "C-2." After discussion, Mayor Bush summarized, "So that would get rid of the Shed Sales on [Highway] 17-92, unless the Commission approved it." Ms. Sahlstrom added, "Or unless we rezone it to '1-1 '." "TOOLS AND EQUIPMENT SALES" was discussed next. Commissioner Martinez said, "It depends on what kind of tools and what kind of equipment, size, and weight." Mayor Bush said, "The Commissioner is right there. So the red star under the 'C-2' should not be there. Maybe it could be a 'Conditional Use' - it is 'Industrial' or a 'Conditional Use'. Because again, it is going to depend upon exactly what it is." Manager McLemore said, "Again we can clarify that when we define the Permitted Use." Mayor Bush stated, "But definitely not in 'C-2', just the way as it is written now." After brief discussion regarding "WINDOW TINTING" the City Commission agreed to "Take it out of 'C-2"'. Ms. Sahlstrom stated, "I saw automotive window tinting as following under - a different category as possibly 'VEHICLE ACCESSORY SALES'." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "'C-1', I do not have a problem with 'C-l' if it is just a sales outlet, but we need to make sure." After discussion, Mayor Bush summarized, '''Non-Automotive' has been taken out of 'Industrial', left it in 'C-2', and what about 'C-1'? We have talked out putting it in, we have talked about 'Conditional Use', and we have talked about not putting it there. Just leave it in 'C-2'?" Commissioner Martinez said, "It makes no difference." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Mayor Bush stated, "'LABS FOR TESTING MATERIALS & CHEM. ANALYSIS' - put that into 'Industrial' as well? Is everybody okay with that?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Mayor Bush said, "Should it be in 'C-2' then is really the question." Commissioner McGinnis said, "It is okay." Attorney Garganese suggested, "If there is any doubt as to whether or not a specific use will be permitted as a matter of right and practically all cases, make it a 'Conditional Use'. That way you have safeguards that you can address at the time an application comes to the City and you have an opportunity to deny something that maybe is noxious - Zoning Codes, you can not address every conceivable use when you do these things. Sometimes you have to be very general. So, fall back on that 'Conditional Use'. There is nothing wrong with that and it will give the community some safeguards." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15, 2003 PAGE 7 OF 18 Deputy Mayor Miller spoke of the City's "Image" and said, "What does not fit the 'Image', we can out it over in 'Light Industrial'. But the question is what if somebody comes back and says - you can not do this, you cannot put this in 'Industrial'?" Attorney Garganese said, "There are some uses you can not exclude - you have a right to determin~ your own Zoning classifications and you have a right to put into those Zoning classifications the Uses that you think are suitable for that Zoning classification within limits." Attorney Garganese added, "If there is something that you have a doubt as to whether or not that it will be obnoxious, make it a 'Conditional Use'." Discussion developed in regards to excluding Pawn Shops. Attorney Garganese stated, "One strategy - you can say they are Permitted Uses in 'Industrial', 'Conditional Uses' in 'C-2'," Adult Arcades was next discussed. Deputy Mayor Miller suggested, "Put them in 'Light Industrial', 'Conditional' in 'C-2'." Discussion. Tape 2/Side A Further discussion developed regarding the "Value" of property, Attorney Garganese stated, "The actual list of uses that are in a Zoning District is just one aspect of value. It is making sure that those uses are compatible that adds value to everybody's property. The public infrastructure that you put into place, all those things that Appraisers use to value property, just not the list of Permitted Uses and the intensity. You need to make them compatible or you are going to have a hodge-podge of Uses which are actually going to be detrimental to property values." In regards to "Pest Control" businesses, Deputy Mayor Miller said, "I think it ought to be in 'Industrial' if they are going to use vehicles. If it is vehicles, it ought to be in the Industrial Park." Manager McLemore said, "I think we can create some intent language again on this - that deals with the storage and noxious type characteristics that will guide all of this." Mayor Bush asked, "So then we take it out of 'C-2', or leave it there and wait for the language to be written, or make it a 'Conditional Use'?" Commissioner Martinez said, "Put it in 'Industrial' for now and when the language comes out we will decide further." Mayor Bush asked, "Commissioner Miller do you agree to that?" Deputy Mayor Miller said, "Yes. The wording is going to have to come back because you can - buy 'Raid' in most of the stores in town." "CLOTHING & TEXTILE Manufacturing & Assembly" was next discussed. Mayor Bush asked the City Commission, "Is everybody okay with that?" Deputy Mayor Miller stated, "Yes." Commissioner Michael S. Blake arrived at 7:31 p.m. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 8 OF 18 "Floral design" was then discussed. Manager McLemore said, "If you have a place where they take existing materials and arrange them for sale, on a small scale basis, I do not know why that would not fit into 'C-2'." After discussion, Manager McLemore asked, "Arranging is okay, is that what we are saying; but when you get into the manufacture of it, that is different." Mayor Bush said, "Put it in 'Industrial' and move it out of'C-2'." With further discussion, Mayor Bush summarized, "On 'FLORAL ARRANGING' then, adding it to the 'I-I' and leaving it also in 'C- 2'. Is that right?" Commissioner Martinez said, "C-2 Conditional." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Okay." "MANUFACTURING, Processing & Assembly" was addressed next. Commissioner Blake stated, "Where it says' Small scale less than 2,500 square feet'. Does that mean if it is less than 2,500 square feet that it could apply for a 'Conditional Use' permit? But if it is 3,000 square feet it is absolutely 'I-I' and could not be 'C-2 '?" Ms. Sahlstrom said, "As it is written there, yes." Commissioner Blake said, "I just think that is too restrictive in this case. I think if we are going to just allow it in 'I-I' and then have the opportunity for a 'Conditional Use' permit, if that is going to come before us, then we ought to have the ability without going through rewriting an Ordinance of allowing a 3,000 square foot operation if this or the future Commission should decide that it is appropriate for the area." Ms. Sahlstrom asked, "Do you want to say 3,000 square feet or are you suggesting no square feet?" Manager McLemore said, "I do not think it is a function of size." Commissioner Blake said, "It is not. That is the whole point." Mayor Bush summarized, "So what the Commissioner is saying is it can go into 'Industrial' no problem, but if they are going to go into 'C-2', it takes 'Conditional Use'. Is that right Commissioner?" Commissioner Blake said, "Yes, and strike the small area for the 2,500 square foot." Mayor Bush asked, "Is everybody in agreement?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." "'MA TERIAL OR PRODUCT PACKAGING" was the next subject addressed. Commissioner McGinnis said, "It should be a 'Conditional Use' then - because it could be a - and that would be a totally different." Commissioner Blake said, "And I would agree with that." Mayor Bush summarized, '''Conditional Use' then under 'C-2'." Commissioner Blake then inquired, "What is the fee for a 'Conditional Use' application?" Mr. Baker said, "$500.00 dollars I believe." Commissioner Blake said, "Across the board, it does not matter what it is?" Mr. Baker said, "Right, it is either $300.00 or $500.00 and I think it is $500.00." Commissioner Blake said, "We may want to look at that at some point too." "PROMOTIONAL PRODUCTS MANUFACTURING, SALES" was presented by Mayor Bush, who stated, "That is kind of the same logic that was used for a previous one. Is everybody okay with that one?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MfNUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 9 OF 18 The City Commission then discussed "SIGN Manufacturing". Commissioner Blake spoke of the differences in surrounding Sign Shops and said, "Should we be looking at some way to separate these two (2) types of businesses?" Mayor Bush stated, "The [City] Manager made a point that - trying to upscale the businesses in the City and raising the bar so to speak." Commissioner Blake said, "I am not suggesting that we put sign manufacturing into neighborhood Commercial but I am really looking at the two (2) different types of operations that are out there. You really cannot lump these two (2) different types of businesses into one (1) I do not think. They are dramatically different types of businesses." Mayor Bush asked, "Would 'Conditional Use' then cover that." Mr. Baker said, "Possibly as a 'Conditional Use' in 'C-l' - for the really small scale stuff." Commissioner Blake said, "It is a storefront type use." Mr. Baker said, "As long as it were a 'Conditional Use' I think we would have a control over it." Commissioner Blake said, "'Conditional Use' in 'C-l', allowed in 'C-2', and 'C-3'." Mayor Bush summarized, "What Commissioner Blake is recommending is that this be approved in 'C- 2' and be 'Conditional Use' in 'C-l'," Commissioner McGinnis said, "That is okay." Attorney Garganese added, "That gets to the point I made earlier, first letter is you can identify it as a 'Conditional Use' in the 'C-l' and 'C-2' Zoning. However, it needs to be further limited in a 'C-l' Zoning District with certain other requirements which Staff is probably going to have to come back and craft. By way of example - sign manufacturing would be a Permitted Use in 'Industrial', would be a 'Conditional Use' in 'C-l' with further restrictions, and a 'Conditional Use' in 'C-l' with even an additional criteria as a 'Conditional Use'. Each one would have different 'Conditional Use' criteria because you need to make sure the use is compatible with the area." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "I do not know what we have to address this under 'C-l'. I think it ought to be 'Light Industrial' and if anyone wants to go - 'C-2' I would go that far. But I think under 'C-l' it is so self-explanatory I do not know why we need to address it. I think 'Light Industrial' and 'C-2', I do not think we ought to address it under 'C-l '." Mayor Bush summarized, "Commissioner Blake says 'Industrial', 'C-l', and 'C-2 Conditional', Commissioner Miller says 'Industrial' only." Commissioner McGinnis said, "I just think it needs further definition, perhaps hearing all of this you could come back with..." Commissioner Martinez said, ".. .My option is 'Industrial', 'Conditional C-2' only." Commissioner McGinnis said, "'Conditional C-2' but again I would like to see them come back with more specific wording on this." Mayor Bush said, "I think on this one we just need to set this one aside because we have got three (3) different opinions for four (4) people." Manager McLemore said, "I think I have got a pretty good grasp of it, I think we could hone something out." Mayor Bush spoke next of '''TOOL MANUFACTURING with Limited Sales' - 'Industrial' only" and asked, "Okay with that one? No objections?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 10 OF 18 In regards to "MAIL ORDER ADDRESSING", Manager McLemore said, "I think it is allowable in 'C-2'." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." After brief discussion Mayor Bush asked, "So the two (2) red stars stay - everybody?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Commissioner Blake said, "Yes." "MARKETING AND SALES Center" was the issue discussed next. Manager McLemore said, "I think that could be 'C-2'. Absolutely." Commissioner Martinez stated, "Sure." Discussion developed clarifying "Marketing and Sales Centers". Manager McLemore clarified, "We generally define those things which does not require storage outside of the principal building, or equipment, materials, supplies, not a Wholesale Distribution Center. " Commissioner Blake questioned whether there are CItIes that write their own "'Commercial' type Zoning Districts based on - Use characteristics as opposed to functional uses". Attorney Garganese answered, "The City of Winter Springs does not have very many Zoning Districts like a lot of communities have. For example you do not have a Professional Office Zoning District. You have Professional Office under 'C-l' and mixed in there. You could create a Professional Office District and start Zoning property just for that type of use." Manager McLemore said, "Or you could create specific language again in your Overlay District which allows for certain conditions that you want to happen there. And on top of the preamble for that District - I think you have to start with what is your vision for the [State Road] 434 Corridor. What do you want there? What do you want it to look like ten (10) years from now because you have an ability to affect it today. Because if you get into a theoretical debate about uses without that framework you will never get anywhere. We would just get into these round-robbin discussions. So you have got to - what is it we are trying to create for this community." After much discussion, Mayor Bush asked the City Commission, "Do we have consensus to add it to 'C-2'?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "All right." Manager McLemore clarified, "It is a Marketing Sales Center and its purpose is to be a Wholesale and Distribution Center, again where you require a lot of storage and that type of thing, that is 'Industrial'." Commissioner Blake said, "I would agree." Commissioner Martinez stated, "You have to define it." Mayor Bush summarized, "It needs some more definition than what we have got here. But I think that Eloise [Sahlstrom] and Mr. Baker understand that." Mayor Bush spoke of "Office Parks" and stated, "The recommendation is to add it to 'Industrial' and add it to 'C-2'." Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE I] OF 18 The City Commission considered adding "REAL ESTATE BROKER" to 'C-2' was discussed next. Mayor Bush asked, "Adding it to 'C-l' - is everybody in agreement?" Manager McLemore said, "Put 'Conditional Use' in 'C-l'." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Okay." Commissioner Blake said, "Permitted Use in 'C-l'. There is nothing more 'Neighborhood Commercial' when you open a Real Estate Office." Mayor Bush asked, '''Conditional Use'?" Commissioner Martinez said, '''Conditional'.'' Commissioner Blake answered, "Permitted Use." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Permitted Use." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "Permitted Use." Mayor Bush spoke of "'Telephone Businesses Office and Exchanges', and adding it to 'Industrial' - does everybody agree with that?" Commissioner Blake said, "Yes." "ARTISTS' Foundries & Workshops" was next discussed. Mayor Bush asked, "'1' [Industrial] only?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "I agree, '1' [Industrial] only." Commissioner Martinez stated, "Yes." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "Yes, leave it in '1' [Industrial] but also add 'C-2'." Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." Commissioner Martinez stated, "No." With further discussion, Mayor Bush said, "Let us move on and we can always come back." "Medical Supplies and Rentals" was then discussed. Commissioner McGinnis said, "C- 2". Commissioner Martinez said, "C-2". Discussion developed regarding "Mortuaries". Mayor Bush said, "At this point we are dealing only with really the red [stars] at this point." Tape 2/Side B Mayor Bush stated further, "We can always go back to anything else. The red ones are the recommendations of the Planning and Zoning Board [/Local Planning Agency] to the Commission - and if we do not move on, we are not even going to get through the red " ones. Mayor Bush spoke of "PUBLIC UTILITY & SERVICE STRUCTURES" and stated, "The recommendation is to add this to the 'Industrial' and you can see it has been a lot of Permitted Uses and it is also approved in a couple of others, GreeneWay Town Center. Adding it to 'Industrial', any objections?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." Discussion. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15, 2003 PAGE 12 OF 18 Mayor Bush asked, "Adding it to 'Industrial', is everybody in agreement with that? That is the red star." Manager McLemore said, "I just need to know what it is. What is it intending to describe?" Mayor Bush asked, "Eloise [Sahlstrom] what is the red star?" Ms. Sahlstrom said, "See this is the difficulty when it comes before permitting and asks can I have this use in this area and you look and you see what the wording is and you are thinking what does this mean. So I cannot tell you what it is. It is in the language as it exists. That is the language in the Code and it is allowed as a 'Conditional Use' with that language in these other areas." Mayor Bush summarized, "If there is no objection of putting it in 'Industrial', leave it there but it needs further clarification for these other categories I think. So it needs further clarification but there is no objection to adding it to 'Industrial'. Is that correct?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Right." Mayor Bush introduced "UTILITY MANAGEMENT SERVICES", adding it to "'Industrial', making it a Permitted Use under 'C-2'." Commissioner Blake asked, "Does that mean it would not be permitted here at City Hall? City Hall is in 'Town Center,' that means we are going to have to send our billing operation somewhere else right?" Manager McLemore said further, "Again there are not enough words here for me to really understand - it has got public and semi-public institution." With further discussion, Mayor Bush said, "I think that one needs to be put on the - list. There is no decision on that until we have got more information. We need more information on that one. " "Recreation Instruction" was discussed. Commissioner Blake stated, "The one we had was not in any of these allowed Districts, it was in a 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development'] interestingly enough. There is no star under 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development'], not a black one or a white one. The only Karate School I knew of in the City that is where it was. Also if you look right down Vistawilla [Drive], the pool and recreation area that is right there at Howell Creek Reserve, that would be a recreational area and facility private and it would not fit in any of these categories. It is not 'Town Center,' it is not 'GreeneWay Interchange District,' or 'C-l', or 'C-2', it is a 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development'). We are going to have to close that down." Mayor Bush stated, "I think this is another one that needs more definition." Mr. Baker advised, "We have a whole list of Permitted Uses for the Tuscawilla commercial areas and that may be in there." Ms. Sahlstrom said, "I do not think it has that terminology - I might have missed it, I think it does have the - 'PHYSICAL FITNESS & HEALTH CLUBS' is listed and I do not show it as listed for the 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development']. So I probably needed a star there." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 13 OF 18 Discussion developed regarding "Planned Unit Developments". Commissioner Blake said, "We have more than one (1) 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development'] in the City and that [Tuscawilla] is probably one of the older ones so it might be a good starting place." Mayor Bush stated, "The recreation areas and facilities I think need to be looked at a little more closely before I think the Commission can make a decision because there is a lot of inconsistencies there that do not seem to be explainable. So let us just come back to that after you have had a chance to look at it again." "RESIDENTIAL DWELLINGS & LODGING FACILITIES" was next discussed. Mayor Bush asked if there were "Any objections to adding it to 'C-2', the 'INN"'. Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." Discussion developed regarding the definitions of "Inns" and "Motels". Mayor Bush suggested that Staff define the word "Inns" and to "Bring back a definition". Mayor Bush asked, "Motel, adding it to 'C-2'? Is everybody okay with that one?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Commissioner Blake said, "Yes, Motel in 'C-2', no problem." "ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT Sales & Service" was discussed next. Manager McLemore stated, "Absolutely 'C-2'." Mayor Bush asked Members of the City Commission, "Any objection?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." Commissioner Martinez also stated, "No." In regards to adding "'FLEA MARKETS' to 'Industrial"', Commissioner McGinnis stated, "Good." Mayor Bush asked, "Is everybody okay with that one?" Commissioner Blake answered, "Yes." Next, Mayor Bush said, "'OUTDOOR DISPLAY and/or SALES' only by 'Special Exception' - so it could go in 'Industrial' with the Commission's approval - 'Conditional'." With further discussion, Ms. Sahlstrom advised the City Commission that, "We could take that language off - because it already is by 'Conditional Use'." Mayor Bush said, "Take it off." Commissioner Blake said, "Can we look at the next one, the other Retail. It says by BOA [Board of Adjustment] judgement. I thought BOA [Board of Adjustment] was advisory only?" Attorney Garganese said, "They are. There was a conflict - I think there is still some conflicts in the Code and any reference where the BOA [Board of Adjustment] has found decision making authority was really technically repealed by a subsequently adopted Ordinance which made them purely an Advisory Board - that is coming out." Mayor Bush spoke of '''TRANSPORTATION EQUIPMENT SERVICES', adding it to 'Industrial'" and stated, "Any objection?" Commissioner Blake asked, "Is this 'VEHICLE Accessory Sales'?" Mayor Bush said, "Just VEHICLE Accessories Sales, I guess adding the words' Accessories sales'." Ms. Sahlstrom said, "No, you are adding the word 'Vehicle'. Currently it says Automotive Accessories Sales are permitted where the black stars are. You are changing 'Automotive' to 'Vehicle' and adding it to the 'I-I' District is what this is showing." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 14 OF 18 Commissioner Blake asked, "Do we really want that in a 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development']?" Ms. Sahlstrom said, "If it is in a 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development'] now it is already permitted. This is just the Tuscawilla 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development']." Commissioner Blake said, "Do we really want vehicle accessory sales in a 'PUD' ['Planned Unit Development']? That is my question." Commissioner Martinez said, "No." Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." Mayor Bush asked, "Does everybody agree to take it out?" Commissioner Martinez said, "Yes." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Commissioner Blake asked further, "Do we really want it in a 'C-1 '?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." Commissioner Martinez said, "No." With additional discussion, Mayor Bush summarized, "The only thing we have done is to leave it from the PUD [Planned Unit Development] and add it to the 'Industrial' - and took it out of 'C-1'." Ms. Sahlstrom said, "All of these say 'AUTOMOTIVE'. The 'Automotive' part was struck and 'Vehicle' was added. So the one right before that 'VEHICLE Body Repairing & Painting', we are not changing any of the categories, but we have changed the terminology." Commissioner Blake said, "I think it is okay to change 'AUTOMOTIVE' to 'VEHICLE', that is fine." "VEHICLE Repairs, Minor" was discussed next. Discussion developed regarding vehicle repairs being made at filling stations; distance requirements; and whether "Somebody could put a gas station in the '1-1' District even though it is not in the gas station full-service line". Ms. Sahlstrom said, "I think the intent is that it - could be an accessory use to a gas station, if it a gas station is permitted. But maybe that language needs to just come out because it adds more confusion. Just take the part out that is in parenthesis from the Code." Commissioner Blake said, "I think we should take that star out of 'Town Center'. That creates a problem across the street." Mr. Baker responded, "Y ou are going to eliminate any possibility that he could ever expand." Mayor Bush asked, "Commissioner Blake has recommended that it be taken out of the 'Town Center'. How do the rest of you feel?" Commissioner Martinez said, "Vehicle repairs, definitely." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "I do not have any objection to what we are talking about - addressing at this point. But to me a repair, you have an oil change - changing a flat tire, changing a water pump, some things are minor repairs that gas stations do, and he is clearly setting up to do that. So - I think to eliminate it, just make it an oil change place, I basically do not have any problem with that but I do not think that is where we are going with this. And I think we need to revisit what it was that we decided when we approved that." For clarification, Mayor Bush asked, "So the only thing that you all have agreed to is adding it to 'Industrial'? No other changes other than adding it to 'Industrial'?" Commissioner Martinez said, "No." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 15 OF 18 Mayor Bush said, '''VEHICLE Sales', adding it to 'Industrial'. Any objections?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "No." Commissioner Blake said, "Any place they can sell a vehicle is fine." Next discussed was adding "Tire sales" to Industrial Zoning. Commissioner Blake asked, "Does that mean they can not sell tires across the street?" Manager McLemore said, "Yes. I believe, as I recall, the way your Development Agreement was written. That they could sell auto accessories." Mr. Baker said, "I do not believe they were allowed to have any retail sales there. I think it was things related to the repair." Commissioner Blake asked, "If I need a set of tires can I take my car over there and have them sell me set." Mr. Baker said, "I do not believe that they were set up to be a tire shop. I would have to get the Development Agreement." Mayor Bush summarized, "So right now Mr. Baker is saying the answer to Commissioner Blake's question is no. He cannot sell tires there. So we will find out later." Mayor Bush said, "'AUTOMOTIVE & TRUCK Rental', adding it to 'Industrial' and making it a 'Conditional Use' in 'C-2'. So everybody is agreeing with that then, 'Industrial' and 'Conditional'?" Next, Mayor Bush stated, "The next one is we added 'Boat sales' but it was already permitted in 'C-2'. 'BOAT SERVICE & REPAIRS (MAJOR)', adding it to 'Industrial'. And it is now a 'Conditional Use' in 'C-2'. Everybody is okay with that?" Next, Mayor Bush stated, '''MOVERS', adding it to 'Industrial"'. Mayor Bush stated further, "They are saying adding it to 'Industrial' and it is already a Permitted Use in 'C- 2'. Is everybody okay with that one?" Commissioner Blake said, "That is fine." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Commissioner Martinez said, "Yes." "P ARKING GARAGES" was then discussed. In regards to adding "Taxi Cab Dispatches" to 'Industrial', Commissioner McGinnis asked, "Under 'C-2' - are there any qualifications on how many? Could they have 100 Taxicabs sitting someplace waiting to be dispatched?" Ms. Sahlstrom explained, '''C-2' currently just says 'TAXICABS', the word dispatch is added, and there is no qualification of what is meant by "Image"." After discussion, Mayor Bush asked, "Why not make it a 'Conditional Use' under 'C-2', that way you would have more control over it?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Right, I like that. I am more comfortable with that." Commissioner Blake said, "I do not have a problem with 'C-2'." Commissioner Martinez said, "When you have the 'Industrial' with a 'C-2 Conditional', that is what I am saying too." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGE 16 OF 18 Mayor Bush said, "Everybody agrees 'Industrial' but the question is should 'C-2' be a 'Conditional Use' or just approved." Manager McLemore said, "I think with a Dispatch Center it is okay in 'C-2'. But for a place where they are going to do all of their repairs and maintenance and - keep their fleet, that should be 'Industrial'." After discussion, Mayor Bush said, "Commissioner Miller, Commissioner Martinez and Commissioner McGinnis are saying Conditional Use for 'C-2'." In regards to "VEHICLE PARTS Manufacturing, Sales" Mayor Bush asked, "Is everybody in agreement with that one?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Commissioner Blake said, "I will go with that in 'I-I' but ifit is sales...." Discussion. Commissioner Martinez departed the Workshop at 9:02 p.m. Commissioner Blake said, "So the real question is it is really a manufacturing place and the question is do we allow them to have a limited sales ancillary operation there. I think we should just strike the word 'Sales' out of there." Mayor Bush advised, "Get rid of the word 'Sales'." Mayor Bush then said, "'Vehicle upholstering', adding it to 'Industrial' and 'C-2'." Commissioner Blake said, "Good." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "Yes." Commissioner McGinnis stated, "Yes." "'WRECKER AND TOWING SERVICE', 'Industrial' only" was stated by Mayor Bush. Deputy Mayor Miller said, "I do not have any problem with that." Mayor Bush said, '''WAREHOUSING' under material or product distribution, non- hazardous, small scale less than 2,500 square feet, allowing it in 'C-2'." Commissioner Blake suggested that we "Strike that whole line in my opinion, go down to the next one and you can put a 'Conditional Use' under 'C-2'." Mayor Bush summarized, "Commissioner Blake is recommending we just get rid of the first line, put a 'Conditional Use' under 'C-2', and it is already permitted in 'Industrial'. Is that okay?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." After further discussion, Manager McLemore said, "I would suggest to you that you not allow 'WAREHOUSING' in 'C-2' period." Commissioner Blake said, "You are going to have to find some more '1-1' for us then." Mayor Bush asked, "Does everybody agree with the [City] Manager on this one?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Discussion developed again regarding "PARKING GARAGES". Manager McLemore said, "Why - put it as a Permitted Use and something that is intended to be only for the use of the neighborhood, a parking garage. I think we ought to change that in 'C-l ' ." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15, 2003 PAGE 17 OF 18 Mr. Jay B. Alpert, 1151 Audubon Way, Maitland, Florida: as the owner of the "434 Business Park", Mr. Alpert asked the City Commission to "Consider retail and office spaces as Permitted Uses in 'Industrial''' and spoke of Permitted Uses on his property. Tape 3/Side A Discussion. Manager McLemore advised, '''CATERING', if you are talking about large scale catering and food processing, I think it traditionally fits 'Light Industrial'. I do not see where that is a problem. Maybe we need to put Catering in there. I do not think it is a problem for 'Light Industrial'. And I certainly think that most of those things that are incidental to Wholesaling, I think we have already concluded he can do." Ms. Sahlstrom stated, "What I can do is go back through the list of tenants that are along Belle Avenue and look at the language that has been discussed tonight and put together something that says which of those would - continue at this point as 'Non-Conforming', which would continue as Permitted, so you have a compilation of what is there now and you can react to it as you see fit. Would that be helpful?" Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Mayor Bush said, "Yes, everybody seems to be in agreement with that." Manager McLemore spoke of "VEHICLE Body Repairing & Painting" in a "C-2" District and stated, "I think that Body Work and Painting should be in a - 'Light Industrial' Zone and not in 'C-2'." With further discussion, Mayor Bush clarified, "Should Body Repair and Painting be included in 'C-2' and he [Manager McLemore] is saying it should not." Commissioner McGinnis said, "I agree." Deputy Mayor Miller said, "I agree." Commissioner Blake said, "My recommendation is to take it out." In regards to "VEHICLE UPHOLSTERING," Manager McLemore asked the City Commission, "Did you allow it in the 'Industrial' District?" Commissioner McGinnis answered, "Yes." Brief discussion. Commissioner Blake suggested, "What I would really like to see - is as we go through this list, as Staff goes through this list, please make it consistent. Please make it at least look like on the surface, that there is some level of common sense that runs it." Mayor Bush said, "I agree with the Commissioner. So Mr. Baker and Eloise [Sahlstrom] you understand what the Commission is saying here? Straighten it out so it makes sense." After brief discussion regarding another possible Workshop to further address this issue, Ms. Sahlstrom said, "We can bring information and a request for a Workshop so you will have the information and then you can set the date." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - SEPTEMBER 15,2003 PAGEI80F18 2. Community Development Department Requests That The City Commission Review The Proposed Changes Affecting Detached Accessory Structures And Buildings. This Agenda Item was not discussed. Commissioner McGinnis distributed a Memorandum regarding "Disaster control". Brief discussion. ADJOURNMENT Mayor Bush adjourned the Workshop at 9:29 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: HOLL Y N. PIERSTORFF ASSIST ANT TO THE CITY CLERK AND -(v~:'" .J.'-".~";-r ",' .-\-~ - ~. i~. if: ---.~ -- . -.- _ CQRE~Z(~-LUACES, CMC ;- ..'. - cn' C RK" ~ - / ;.:~ ,/ ~,- .::'.> ~ ,--." " / . ~ ~' ,- - :-:: ':<.<: -;'-:.( , .: - ~~-''''---~-~-- "'.:.;..<'-,;.,::" I,