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HomeMy WebLinkAbout_2002 08 05 City Commission Workshop Minutes CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP AUGUST 5, 2002 I. CALL TO ORDER The Workshop of Monday, August 5, 2002 of the City Commission was called to order by Deputy Mayor Cindy Gennell at 6:34 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida 32708). ROLL CALL: Mayor Paul P. Partyka, absent Deputy Mayor Cindy Gennell, present Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present Commissioner Michael S. Blake, present Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr., present Commissioner David W. McLeod, present City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, present City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, absent II. AGENDA A. Budget Review. City Employee Health Insurance: Discussion ensued with City Manager Ronald W. McLemore and Ms. Fluffy Bellus, Insurance Consultant. Ms. Fluffy Bel/us, Bel/us Bel/us, 1251 Miller Avenue, Winter Park, Florida: spoke on Health Insurance issues. Ms. Louise Frangoul, Finance Department Director informed the Commission that Humana HMO "#22 is our current plan." Discussion followed regarding possible alternative plans. Ms. Bellus spoke of some "Major illnesses" involving City employees, which resulted in some companies declining to offer the City quotes. Commissioner David W. McLeod stated that when we provide various companies with personal employee information, "Sometimes it is cheaper not to give them the information - what happens sometimes as I have seen here, you have then given the information and yet certain ones have declined to CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 5, 2002 PAGE 2 OF 8 quote you, perhaps due to the information. Sometimes if you don't give them the information they will decline also - but I have a real problem with us giving out the total information to the carriers." Commissioner McLeod stated further, "I know the other side of the coin is once we decide here - maybe the employees have to participate more, then - it may come back that we will have to have more pay raises because they lost money due to the insurance." Manager McLemore informed the Commission, "We probably need to make these increases - to take those and transform them to a percent of payroll issues so we can use that to comparative purposes when we start talking about increases, salaries, merit increases, that kind of thing." Commissioner Michael S. Blake stated, "The idea of shared payroll I think makes a lot of sense here, because we have some folks that are getting paid much differently than others. There is probably on average a 300% difference from the bottom to the top of our pay scale, excluding the Executive Staff. And for some of these folks down near the bottom to absorb some of these types of increases would probably make them leave - they would have to leave; they would not be able to afford to stay here and I really think that is an issue that we should not close our eyes to." Discussion. Commissioner Blake suggested, "We could also do a much better job of conveying to the employees how big of a raise they really get, if they look at the true cost to the employer of having them around for another year. It is not just their salary but the cost of benefits also. " Commissioner Robert S. Miller requested that Staff provide "Statistics - in terms of percentages of what this is coming to in terms of our Budget, because it looks to me like - if you take the total program, which is - $1.284 million, that equates to about 11.3% of our total Budget, but the employees kicked in a portion of that which looks like about $380,000.00. So it is probably about 8% of our total City Budget." Commissioner Miller further requested, "I would like to see what that number was - I wasn't aware that it has gone up 20% a year. But I would like to see whatever it was - I would like to see a comparative figure for maybe five (5) years - because it looks to me like this is probably an issue that if it is presented to us in terms of a very clear progression we are going to reach a point where we are going to have to do something significant." Further discussion focused on plan options. Deputy Mayor Gennell informed the Commission that the Council of Local Governments in Seminole County (CALNO), during the past year put a matrix together with related information from all the cities, so "We have that available - what is being done in all the neighboring communities." Deputy Mayor Gennell added, "The School Board did something - where they allowed or encouraged their employees to go under their CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 5, 2002 PAGE30F8 spouse's plan - to just opt totally out. As long as you have got it you may want to make it available to the Commissioners if you think it is of any value to them." Discussion. Commissioner McLeod advised the Commission, "I think the first thing that we need to do is decide which one of the three (3) we are most interested in; and then we need to take from that, go down through the five (5) - we are interested in." Manager McLemore said, "If I could add a caveat to that, in that - let's think about the number of dollars you are willing to spend and then go to the employees." Manager McLemore added, "The employees might be willing to pay up more - in order to keep what they have got." Tape IISide B After a brief discussion on whether or not to review in depth the information that Staff provided, Commissioner McLeod stated, "I would rather do it." Commissioner Edward Martinez, Jr. stated, "Based on what we have heard so far and the fact that they will have to come back with sufficient information for a final decision, I don't think we should waste time." Commissioner Blake stated, "I will gladly sit here and go through it." Commissioner Miller said, "I would be more than happy to spend some time." Deputy Mayor Gennell stated, "I am inclined to agree that we need to spend some more time on this so that the bulk of the Commission has a better understanding of exactly what the figures actually mean to us." With the majority of the City Commission in agreement, the Commission further discussed the various plans. Commissioner Blake asked, "Does Humana have a program - together with the MSA's? I know United and - is putting one together?" Ms. Bellus answered, "It's not here yet." With further discussion, Commissioner Blake stated, "We might want to discuss it in January." In regards to the possible increase in hospital stay Co-Pays, Commissioner Blake asked, "Is there a different way to fund that? If we went with the #7502 plan where you have $750.00 dollars for a hospital stay that's three (3) days, is there a different way for the employer to reduce that cost, to fund that cost without paying the additional premiums? Because you are looking at - a difference of - $120,000.00 dollars. The total premium is $120,000.00 dollars less for that plan which would be 140 - half of our population would have to have a three (3) day hospital stay throughout the year to make up that $120,000.00 dollar difference. And I am just wondering if there isn't some better way to provide for that potential cost." Ms. Bellus responded, "Yes, you could if you did it across the Board. You could pay hospital Co-Pays if you wanted to self-insure that." Commissioner Blake said, "Maybe we knock it down to $100.00 dollars a day for three (3) days, so it's $300.00 dollars and the City picks up the rest through self-insurance. If that saves $120,000.00 dollars that's real money for what we are talking about here versus looking at a richer plan that we are paying a lot for." Commissioner Blake stated, "If we show any interest in it, I am sure Staff could bring back something and define it." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 5, 2002 PAGE 4 OF 8 Commissioner McLeod said, "From what I see of the plans, I think when you look at the benefits you are probably looking somewhere in this 33% plan. From my perspective - my perspective would be we probably need to look at this #7501 plan and go to the next step." Commissioner McLeod then stated that "If you use the #7501, it says the employees have got a $100.00 dollar a day deductible perhaps, that is the big drawback on that plan. But dollar wise I think you need to look at it as to how it impacts both the employees and the City. And our next step Mayor, would be now - we would look at that impact. Weare in the middle of the road but now we need to find out how that impacts the employee and the City." Commissioner McLeod suggested, "So what I am saying is to work with what we have in front of us. If we would perhaps all agree to look at the HMO #7501 sheet and try to then determine the Options, #1 to #4, how do we think those dollars should be divvied between the City and the employee - I think would give Staff some direction then as to what we want them to start bringing back to us." Deputy Mayor Gennell asked for opinions from the Commission regarding "Do we eliminate HMO #22 from consideration at this time, that we eliminate HMO #7502 from consideration at this time, and that we concentrate on Options available under #7501?" Commissioner McLeod said, "Correct." Commissioner Miller asked Commissioner McLeod, "Do you want to discuss #7501 tonight and this other information would come back. Is that your point?" Commissioner McLeod answered, "Yes, that would be my point because if the information came back I think you could also apply it then to the #7501, the same logic. And if you have now settled on #7501 and its benefits, but you were able to reduce that - better yet, then I think you have - the best of all worlds." Ms. Bellus spoke of the City's actual medical costs and stated, "37% of your claims have gone to the hospital. Of the dollars - the hospital, because of your situations right now, is very high." Commissioner Blake stated, "Given what we have learned about five (5) or seven (7) specific cases, that would suggest to me that this seems to be a pretty good bet." Commissioner McLeod stated, "I am in agreement to looking into that. I am just trying to say that maybe from the information we have in front of us, to try and work it down because I think - if we work it down, then - when that information comes back is our answer. " Commissioner Blake pointed out, "I would not necessarily be in agreement with going directly to #7501 and alleviating the other plans. I think if we offered the other options, the POS and the PPO those are higher Option plans, I would look at the #7502 plan, at the lower cost and still have the - ability for the employees to select the POS or the PPO at their additional cost, if they desire to trade up. So I would not be in favor of a wholesale elimination of that plan. I will agree that HMO #22 appears to be a very rich plan but we can't forget about how each of these plans fits in with the Cody Study, with what competing municipalities are offering. I think we have a very rich plan already and it may be cheaper for us - to retain the HMO #22 plan if we combined that with the Cody Study and take a look at what our total overall costs are. And I don't have that information - that math is not here before us, but I think these are real questions that we need to take a look at." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 5, 2002 PAGE 5 OF 8 Deputy Mayor Gennell asked Commissioner Miller, "Would you be inclined to agree with Commissioner McLeod and concentrate on the mid-range plan for today, for other information to come back?" Commissioner Miller said, ".. . Well, I would not go along with it. I thought we were going to discuss one this evening and the information comes back on the other ones." Commissioner Blake added, "I don't have a problem with concentrating on a plan. And if we want to pick the middle plan because the middle is always the easiest that is fine. When we get down to the discussion of how we are going to divide up the cost sharing arrangement, if we want to use that plan as a tool to get to that discussion, I am okay with that for this part of it. But we have so many other very complicated questions that I think we need to address that I do not want to see the elimination of these other possibilities." Commissioner Martinez stated, "I don't have a decision to make until we get further information on this." Deputy Mayor Gennell said, "So you are not willing to rule out anything at this time?" Commissioner Martinez answered, "That is correct." Deputy Mayor Gennell summarized, "Then we are still considering all three (3) of the plans at this point but we are willing to concentrate on the mid-range for the purpose of discussion until we get more information back." After a brief discussion, Deputy Mayor Gennell advised Staff, "It does appear that we need some more information or we need some more clarification of these few that are here. I think for one thing we would probably want to look at what the impact would be if the City bought some of those Co-Pays and anyone of the plans - see how we could reduce our up front liability on the second two (2) plans." Deputy Mayor Gennell asked the Commission, "Do we want to ask Staff to bring us back the information relative to us partially self-insuring ourselves on the Hospital Co-Pay part?" Commissioner Blake stated, "I would like two (2) paragraphs and if it looks like it is promising, then four (4) pages." Commissioner Martinez stated, "Either way it makes no difference. Put it half yes and half no." Tape 2/Side A Next, Commissioner McLeod spoke of the Cody Study and stated, "I was surprised to hear - that all that is, is a comparison of all the surrounding cities dollars and cents and nothing to do with the rest of the benefits. Well, the benefits are a significant overall package to employees. So I would say that relatively the Cody Study is useless and you better go back and check the Cody Study against benefits to the dollar - it is not a complete study." Manager McLemore stated, "It is not a total compensation study. It is a salary study." Commissioner McLeod stated, "I would like to know the benefits study to surrounding cities because benefits is a dollar and cents issue to the bottom line." CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 5, 2002 PAGE60F8 With further discussion on benefits, Commissioner McLeod said, "I don't think we are trying to match our insurance with Casselberry and Casselberry is trying to match to Longwood - but, I think that if we find out Longwood is running an 18% benefits package and we are running a 28% benefits package - then we start talking dollars and cents." Commissioner Blake added, "If we are not pointing that out to employees we are missing..." Commissioner McLeod then said, "... Yes, because if they are jumping the boat to go over here for the ten cents ($.10), and yet they just left 15% behind in benefits, we didn't do our job in educating them on what is right. And I am glad it was brought out this evening because - I had missed that, that we have not seen the benefits side of the employee package." Deputy Mayor Gennell stated, "I agree with him because you are sitting here telling us that that is getting to be the major factor in consideration of applicants or job switching. And if that is going to be a major factor in their decision-making process, it needs to be a major factor in our decision-making process when we are talking about pay increases and so forth." With brief discussion, Deputy Mayor Gennell stated, "Ron [McLemore] you will bring us back information relative to what it would cost to purchase some of that hospital Co-Pays under those three (3) plans - and any other significant improved information that you garner in the meantime?" Manager McLemore stated, "Yes." Deputy Mayor Gennell inquired further, "Do you think it would by any chance be possible to get any figures for our own in-house Staff, some kind of a survey of the surrounding cities for their benefit dollars? Do you have them? I think it all factors into this decision making process." Ms. Bellus stated, "I've got it. Louise [Frangoul] has it. I gave a copy to her." Commissioner Miller requested a copy of that information also. In regards to the comparative data between municipalities, Manager McLemore advised the Commission that "An average is all we will get, an average up and down the line." Commissioner McLeod asked, "What is our average right now Ron [McLemore]?" Manager McLemore stated, "Our total compensation package is 33%." Commissioner McLeod said, "That is all I am asking for - I am wanting an overall per city." Commissioner McLeod asked, "Does everybody agree with that?" Deputy Mayor Gennell stated, "Yes." Commissioner Martinez also said, "Yes." Parks And Recreation Department: Mr. Chuck Pula, Parks and Recreation Department Director addressed the City Commission regarding the possibility of transferring Concession Stand services to an outside entity. Discussion on revenues ensued. CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 5, 2002 PAGE70F8 Deputy Mayor Gennel/ recessed the Workshop at 8:32 p.m. The Workshop reconvened at 8:44 p.m. Discussion. Commissioner Blake stated, "Point of Order" and commented on the recent discussion related to revenues. Commissioner Blake then said, "I would like to think that we would ask Staff to come back and bring it to us in a way that is clear, concise, and makes good sense - data that we think we could rely on." With additional discussion, Commissioner Blake said, "I just think there are better ways for us to spend $15,000.00, or $20,000.00, or $25,000.00 which is peanuts overall in the City, than to operate a Concession Stand under a loss continually over the years. I also question these numbers up at the top here, the annual numbers. I have got a feeling that if a real true full cost accounting was done of the operation, that these loss numbers would be much greater than what is depicted here. I think this is just simple revenues in and revenues out, and the costs are substantially greater than that. How much did we spend to build that second Concession Stand? Where are those capital costs built into here?" Manager McLemore said, "If you did it on a full cost basis you'd have a different animal." Commissioner Blake said, "That is what I am talking about. I understand some of those costs are sunk - and we have to look at it a little bit differently now, but if you want to look at it in reality you are talking about taking 10% of revenues here to cover some capital costs. So, I would be disappointed if we made a decision based on the information that we have." Discussion. Tape 2/Side B Commissioner Martinez departed the Workshop at 9:06 p.m. Commissioner McLeod questioned the outcome of the excessive inventory if the Concession Stand was turned over to an outside organization and stated, "At some point, part of the agreement should be the excess inventory of cups, whatever else is left over that is not perishable - should be turned over to them - quantities with a price." Furthermore, Commissioner McLeod stated, "I hope when you come back you have a better feel - this thing is 85% or 90% positive to the people that you are working with that is going to be a handoff to, that it is going to be successful. If it is only a 50% success rate guys, let's stop it now and continue to do what we are doing and better ourselves." Commissioner McLeod further added, "On the other hand, I agree with Commissioner Blake, there are a lot more details, as you have been saying also Mr. Manager - there is not enough information here to make an intelligent decision this evening on what we are trying to decide to do and work with. But as the Manager, if you feel this thing is going to fail, then I think as the Manager advising this Commission that CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS MINUTES CITY COMMISSION WORKSHOP - AUGUST 5, 2002 PAGE 8 OF 8 you need to come forward very strongly with those feelings." Furthermore, Commissioner McLeod stated, "I can't make a decision - with what I have here this evening. " Further brief discussion. III. ADJOURNMENT Deputy Mayor Gennell adjourned the Workshop at 9:31 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: HOLLY N. PIERSTORFF C :~~AN(~TrHE CITY CLE~ AND NDREA1~~:ZO-LUACES, CMC CI;:r.efERK / .