HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 10 02 Neighborhood Meeting Minutes
CITY OF WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA
MINUTES
CITY COMMISSION
NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING
OCTOBER 2, 2006
CALL TO ORDER
The Neighborhood Meeting of Monday, October 2, 2006 of the City Commission was
called to Order by Mayor John F. Bush at 6:31 p.m. in the Commission Chambers of the
Municipal Building (City Hall, 1126 East State Road 434, Winter Springs, Florida
32708).
Roll Call:
Mayor John F. Bush, present
Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake, arrived at 6:37 p.m.
Commissioner Robert S. Miller, present
Commissioner Donald A. Gilmore, present
Commissioner Sally McGinnis, present
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs, present
City Manager Ronald W. McLemore, absent
City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese, arrived at 6:41 p.m.
A moment of silence was followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.
INFORMATIONAL AGENDA
INFORMATIONAL
500. Office Of The City Manager
Discussion Of Seminole County's Jetta Point Park Proposal.
Ms. Abra Horne, Alep, Senior Planner 3, PBS&J, 482 South Keller Road, Orlando,
Florida: introduced those attending from Seminole County and PBS&J and spoke on the
Jetta Park Proposal.
Deputy Mayor Michael S. Blake arrived at 6:37 p.m.
Mr. Dave Larsen, Planner Manager, PBS&J, 482 South Keller Road, Orlando, Florida:
said, "The site has tremendous existing wetlands and tree canopy. Our goal is to try and
preserve all of that, if we can. We also wanted to minimize vehicular adjacency to some
of the residential areas. We felt like we could reorganize that Plan and move those areas
away from residential areas. We also wanted to establish natural buffers; really creating
a buffer between the park and adjacent residential."
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City Attorney Anthony A. Garganese arrived at 6: 41 p. m.
Mr. Larsen said, "Some of the setbacks that are proposed: certainly ten foot (10') along
the fence line here on the [State Road] 417; ten foot (10') along the Cross Seminole Trail.
A question came up about the operating hours for the park. It's 8:00 a.m. until 10:00
p.m., seven (7) days a week. And the site will be secured appropriately here at the main
entrance. Parking that's proposed is 500 spaces located along [State Road] 417. And we
anticipate that Saturday will be the peak usage time for those spaces. The ball field
lighting - all fields are proposed to be lighted." Mr. Larsen added, "Both fields will be
metered separately and lighted independently meaning if one field is not being used,
those lights will be turned off.
Certainly the most important factor is here, is that all the lighting proposed is cut-off
lighting. Meaning that none of the light will over spill from the edge of the fields. And
we have an expert here that can go through some of those details with you a little bit
later. But the lighting proposed on the fields is between thirty (30) and - fifty foot (50')
candles. Some of the setbacks from the closest parking area to residential is
approximately 440 feet from the nearest resident, and the ball fields are about 160 feet
from the nearest residence; and again a landscape buffer is proposed to shield residents
from views and noise."
Ms. Marilyn D. (Kastory) Dickenson, 140 Peregrine Court, Winter Springs, Florida:
spoke of a ditch that backs up to the Trail, that most of the time has water in it, and
believes it is a safety concern.
Commissioner Joanne M. Krebs asked, "Regarding the children's playground, will it
include features to accommodate handicapped or physically challenged children?" Mr.
Larsen stated, "Yes." Commissioner Krebs then inquired, "What would that be?"
Replying, Mr. Larsen explained, "We're going to follow all of the National and State
guidelines for ADA (Americans With Disabilities Act) facilities." Continuing, Mr.
Larsen pointed out, "All of our facilities are designed for ADA (Americans With
Disabilities Act) compliance which means that you integrate challenged children and give
them the ability to integrate with other individuals."
Mr. Bill Christie, 3520 Wild Eagle Run, Oviedo, Florida: spoke of park not being built
and asked if the lighting would be the same and if the lights would go off at 10:00 p.m.
Mr. Jon Bean, 142 Peregrine Court, Winter Springs, Florida: asked where the
boundaries of the park will be and asked for details on the berm.
Discussion.
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Mr. Brian Lewis, 673 Saranac Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: asked if there were plans
for a public address system for the ball parks.
Mr. Joe Gasparini, Parks and Recreation Manager, Seminole County, 1101 East First
Street, Sanford, Florida: addressed public address systems and confirmed that there
would be some in the proposed park.
Mr. Douglas Hamilton, 126 Peregrine Court, Winter Springs, Florida: asked whether
Seminole County or City of Winter Springs would be building the park.
Commissioner Randy Morris, Seminole County, 1101 East First Street, Sanford,
Florida: addressed those in attendance and noted, "Soldier's Creek Park is going to get a
major rebuild too. And Soldier's Creek, if you all don't know, is just outside of Winter
Springs' border. We offered to have it annexed into the City of Winter Springs, if they'd
like it from an annexation basis even though we'd still maintain it."
County Commissioner Morris continued, "So this is Phase 1 of a major park project. So,
the original 4.3 million dollar ($4,300,000.00) investment, this park here is a ten million
dollar ($10,000,000.00) minimum investment, if we build this park. It'll cost ten million
dollars ($10,000,000.00). The County is paying for it. The County is maintaining it.
The City has not chosen to participate with us on the maintenance."
Discussion.
Continuing, County Commissioner Morris remarked, "So the decision for the City of
Winter Springs, of which, and understand, under no circumstances is the County wanting
to try to force this through. It has to be approved by the City and the Use has to be
approved by the City; the plan has to be approved by the City.
But there's a couple of things: The County wants these elements in the park. It has no
reason to build if it doesn't put the elements in the park. The County, the Commission
would be willing to sell the land if that were the case." Furthermore, County
Commissioner Morris noted, "A park would add to your quality of life. We'll do
everything with the lighting that we can do."
County Commissioner Morris then stated, "The City is to determine whether in their
long-range planning, do they want to use this as more tax base or do they want to use it as
an amenity? Does the City have an ability to acquire some project like this? Does it
want to have the financial capability to acquire additional parks particularly on the
eastern end of the City, where you expanded to; of which you're going to have substantial
population across the street on the north side of [State Road] 434 and indeed a little bit to
the east of - [State Road] 417. And then too, at that time, would you also have the
where-with-all to build a park?
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Second thing is, but the decision you have to make is, is this something that you really
want for tax base, for commercial tax base? It is a - very nice comer, near a ramp. It has
got some real access problems, as you all know, because of DOT (Department of
Transportation) on the access to the out-parcels and the 'Commercial'; which may cause
an evaluation problem and certainly a developmental problem on traffic movement. All
that traffic movement of course, would have to move across, over by the Hess Station.
So think through of what would happen the way the traffic would operate as a
commercial outlet."
Discussion.
Ms. Maureen Smith, 130 Peregrine Court, Winter Springs, Florida: asked whether there
a stadium for spectators was planned.
County Commissioner Morris replied, "No. The most that would be here would be a,
some bleachers for parents and siblings and so on, to sit on." Ms. Smith asked, "Where
would that be located?" County Commissioner Morris said, "The softball area right
here."
Discussion continued on the berm and fences planned for the area.
Commissioner Bob Dallari, 1101 East First Street, Sanford, Florida: addressed those in
attendance on the berm and ditch.
Further discussion.
Mr. Charles Dolce, 110 Goshawk Terrace, Winter Springs, Florida: asked if the
northern part of the site is going to be developed.
Mr. Edward Popoli, 107 Goshawk Terrace, Winter Springs, Florida: asked where the
dog area is going to be.
Brief discussion.
Mr. Bill Christie, 3520 Wild Eagle Run, Oviedo, Florida: spoke about lighting and noise.
Further discussion.
Tape I/Side B
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Mr. Edward Martinez, 205 Little Creek Lane, Winter Springs, Florida: noted that he
didn't know any reason why the City of Winter Springs wouldn't want this Park.
Discussion.
Mr. Jay Clay, 144 Peregrine Court, Winter Springs, Florida: asked where the lights
were going to be put.
County Commissioner Morris explained, "Your going to light all the ball fields - and
you're going to light the recreational open fields which will be soccer or lacrosse."
Mr. Clay then asked if parking at the Trail Head was going to be closed off?
With further discussion, short-cuts people might take was covered next.
Mr. Greg Smith, 669 Saranac Drive, Winter Springs, Florida: asked about the parcel on
the southwest comer of the tract and inquired whether it would be left undeveloped.
County Commissioner Morris explained, "Yes, in fact it needs to be declared that."
Mr. Jon Bean, 142 Peregrine Court, Winter Springs, Florida: asked if there is a way to
get to the park without going all the way around?"
Mr. Larsen said, "We'd like to have as much access to the park in certain locations. Here
is one access point that you can transverse through. There's a small land bridge here, over
the retention pond. The retention ponds are actually staged; there's a drop in elevation so
we could actually create a stream-like feature with the retention ponds and really create a
dramatic amenity here.
Mr. Bean further inquired, "Is there a vehicle by which the people that are here and
people who are not here, can voice either their support or decent to the programs so that
the council has some knowledge - some guidance?"
County Commissioner Morris said, "Well, it's a City process, and however the City - I
wouldn't deem to presume how the City would do that. You do though go through a
Public Hearing process on this. We would like to have a sense the neighborhood feels
comfortable with it prior to going forward throughout the process and then having to
withdraw. We'd also like to make sure that the Commission feels comfortable, to the
extent that they can, and they understand fully what - we're trying to and when we're
trying to get a start date and everything else. So, it would be through their public
process; or any direct communications you want to have with the County Commission,
you're more than welcome to have too."
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Mayor Bush asked, "Mr. John Baker (AICP, Senior Planner, Community Development
Department) and Eloise (Sahlstrom, (AICP, ASLA, Senior Planner, Community
Development Department), this would be a Land Use change, so this would be one of
those big signs notifying about the Public Hearing and do we also mail to the resident
who are contiguous?" Ms. Sahlstrom replied, "The answer is ' Yes'. It currently has a
sign up now and there has been mailings; mailings for this Meeting tonight, mailings for
Wednesday nights Meeting, mailings for Thursday nights Meeting; all of the above."
Discussion.
Commissioner Sally McGinnis asked, "So, if some of the soccer fields - are not being
utilized, will they be dark?" County Commissioner Morris said, "Yes, the only fields that
are lit are when they're under use." Commissioner McGinnis said, "Well, I think, people
always - my experience is people always get a little nervous when we keep telling them,
'Now, you know, this is just the preliminary - there's some tweaking to do'. Sometimes
that creates some uncertainty, but as this moves along and when there's a final I'm sure
there will be an opportunity for everybody to see."
Further brief discussion.
County Commissioner Morris then remarked that, "The request that we would have the
City to consider - by any whatever public process we would need to do, I've already told
you that this site plan ultimately is approved by the Commission. And the site plan will
look very similar to what you're seeing in design concept. We can't guarantee - to the
foot where things are going to be, but our parameters are what we - said. A 160 foot set-
back, parking where it is, bases, all that sort of thing, the general elements would stay.
However, there is some tweaking, as we have said."
Ms. Home then noted, "On Wednesday evening (October 4, 2006), there is an
administrative Land Use change to the Future Land Use Map to change the designation of
the property, the entire property, from its current two (2) designations to 'Recreation and
Open Space Use'. And then, Thursday evening (October 5, 2006), we would go before
the Board of Zoning Adjustment for a request to consider the 'Conditional Use'
Application that we have submitted for the portion of the property that is currently zoned
'C-1' - and then we will come back before the City Commission - for you to consider
both of the recommendations of the Local Planning Agency and the Board of
Adjustment; and that is on the 23rd [October 2006]."
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With further comments, County Commissioner Morris said, "SO the idea of a simpler
solution is - to allow in your descriptive definition, of what's permitted in 'C-l' as
government park usage - be happy to present this formally to you all in any fashion.
We're going to go ahead and have - the meeting, at least one (1) or two (2) of these
meetings, as we go through the process."
Continuing, County Commissioner Morris noted, "We also heard that, 'Well, let's go
ahead and go through this whole Land Use process that we're going through' - the City
has some representatives of the City have told us, and then we'll also do some kind of
Joint Planning Agreement on the park, or some kind of Interlocal Agreement."
Those in attendance were asked whether they were in favor of this proposed plan or not,
and by a show of hands, most in attendance showed they were in favor of the proposed
Park.
Discussion.
County Commissioner Morris said, "We can also stipulate that there will be four (4)
fields, four (4) active fields. There will be these elements and that's what will be there.
We cannot stipulate - that's exactly the location they are going to be, but we can stipulate
that they'll be a 160 feet away, the nearest field."
Next, County Commissioner Dallari added, "At certain milestones, we can actually send
out to the community what our status is and what the plan actually looks like to show the
community we're actually doing what we say, what we will do." Commissioner
McGinnis noted, "Excellent." County Commissioner Dallari then said, "At least twice
during design, I would think that we would actually show it to the community."
County Commissioner Morris noted, "This particular one is on the Website - you could
either hear the full presentation before the - Commission and you can see all that we had
to say there - we will send you the Web site" information. County Commissioner Morris
added, "We'll contact you and we'll tell you how to do it."
Commissioner Krebs said, "We could probably put something on our Web site telling
people where to go on the County Website." Mayor Bush said, "Yes, and we could put-
this presentation tonight on the Website."
Mr. Don Ryter, 673 Cayuga Street, Winter Springs, Florida: commented that he
preferred that there not be direct access to the Park from his subdivision.
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Furthermore, County Commissioner Morris said, "We would ask for serious
consideration of our request for you all to do a Text Amendment - an allowance of your
commercial interpretations by definitions to permit in this 'Use'; and it would solve a lot
of problems. You still would have full approval of the ultimate Site Plan. Any public
process or public meeting, if you would ask us to do it, we would do any of that, through
any process you want to do. But it would certainly make this an easier process for us.
And we don't want to get into, if we can avoid it in anyway, getting into Interlocal
Agreements. We've got, or at least the next Commission's got a lot of work to do with
your Commission on Interlocal Agreement regarding other matters than to start getting
caught up in an Interlocal Agreement over a park."
Attorney Garganese said, "If the Commission wanted to change the Zoning Code to put it
as a 'Permitted Use' and PUD (Planned Unit Development) and in 'C-l Commercial', the
Commission could direct that. If you did direct that, my advice is still going to be that
you change the Future Land Use designation to 'Open Space Recreation' because that's
what you have in your Comprehensive Plan. And - I believe it should be 'Open Space
Recreation' if this beautiful park gets built in any event. But, if they want - to move
forward with that, changing the Permitted Uses, in the mean time, that's fine. But I still
think you need to go through the Comp (Comprehensive) Plan process."
County Commissioner Morris commented, "I think you could go through the Comp
(Comprehensive) Plan process later, go ahead and build it, but you would have that
Element in for - you would have additional green space and park - for the City, and that
would be fine."
Mayor Bush said, "Well, I sense no objection at all from our Commissioners on this and
so, I would like to see it expedited."
Discussion.
Attorney Garganese said, "Before this Commission's time, and I think the County is
aware of it, I think that there's an old Settlement Agreement, I think it impacts this part of
the property. And what it says is that this property has to be Commercial' and in the
Settlement Agreement, it lists all the specific 'Commercial' Uses that are allowed for this
property. The County could agree to release that restriction. Every chance we get, we try
to get this restriction released because some of the 'Commercial' Uses that are permitted
by Settlement Agreement are frankly, pretty noxious and obnoxious to the area. So, we
would ask the County to release that 'Commercial' restriction and that, again, that would
bring the control over the Land Use back to the Commission rather than have that
Settlement Agreement in place."
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County Commissioner Morris said, "The County could, would release that and release -
some kind of contractual agreement with you all after Final Site Plan approval and then
be reverted - if that is not done. County Commissioner Morris added, "The concept here
is that the issue of perpetual use - for the purpose of the park is what we're after; that's
what we're really after."
Ms. Sahlstrom said, "We currently have started the process of an administrative Land
Use change on the property. Do you see any reason why we cannot go ahead and
proceed with that given that the final approval would not be any sooner than the end of
January, beginning of February anyway?" County Commissioner Morris pointed out,
"Should be at the earliest January or February - our people would still be instructed to go
to your two (2) Meetings. What we're asking for is relief on this issue at the next City
Commission Meeting that you can act - we would go through the process as though we
were still doing it. And then we'd ask the City to go ahead and relieve us of that process
by doing what we've proposed here. And then we wouldn't go through that process
anymore, it would become a ministerial process by you all, with proper due notice. And I
think in your case, it maybe two (2) Meetings, some it's just one (1)."
Attorney Garganese said, "If we move forward with changing the text in the Zoning
District, it would likely go to the Land Planning/Planning and Zoning Board, November,
I believe. And they would make a recommendation to the City Commission and the City
Commission has to have - actually two (2) Public Hearings because it changes the list of
Permitted Uses. So, we're looking at December and if you cut the meeting schedule in
December, probably January before the final adoption of that particular Ordinance. And
we'll work around the Commission's schedule.
The Comp (Comprehensive) Plan change - I would recommend continue going forward
and at least transmitting it to the Department of Community Affairs because that Public
Hearing is going to be your second (2nd) Meeting in October. And then, that would be
floating up in Tallahassee with DCA (Department of Community Affairs) while we're
working on the Text Change to the Zoning District."
County Commissioner Morris said, "We're happy to go through the process to the extent
- that it takes to clear it the other way. And the speed with which the City can get it
through, why your process is a lot longer than ours." Attorney Garganese noted, "Which
process?" County Commissioner Morris said, "To get it - passed. The way it would go
to the P&Z (Planning and Zoning Board) because we would - well, ours would just be a
lot faster." Attorney Garganese said, "I think you just have one (1) hearing, right?"
County Commissioner Morris said, "Yes, but we would also fast track it to P&Z
(Planning and Zoning Board) and then we'd fast track it to the Commission and have it to
the Commission within three (3) days, prior to the P&Z (Planning and Zoning Board)
Meeting. "
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Commissioner Robert S. Miller asked, "Can't we fast track it through the P&Z (Planning
and Zoning Board)?"
Attorney Garganese replied, "Well, I think, there's a Meeting scheduled this week for the
Planning and Zoning Board and Eloise (Sahlstrom) could probably check the calendars
and see if you can get a quorum before the next regularly scheduled Meeting and then
we'd just have to advertise the Ordinance change."
Continued brief discussion.
Mayor Bush asked, "So Commissioners, are you, do we have a Consensus that we
should fast track at all, at every possible way as long as it's staying within the law?"
Commissioner McGinnis said, "Yes." Commissioner Miller noted, "Yes."
Commissioner Krebs remarked, "Yes." No objections were noted.
County Commissioner Morris then said, "We can send over any draft language, if you'd
like - if it's a help."
Mr. Baker asked, "Will we still be going through a 'Conditional Use'? Right now we're
just going through the 'Conditional Use' just for the part that's in 'C-I'. Will we then be
going to the 'Conditional Use' for the whole thing?"
Attorney Garganese commented, "We can talk to the County about that, it's their
Application. But I think they may want to just postpone that given the City
Commission's direction."
Then, County Commissioner Morris said, "We would hope - that we would not have to
go through a 'Conditional Use'. This is the whole purpose of what we're trying to do.
But - it would based you're your forbearance of understanding exactly what we're saying
we're doing. But - the idea is to elevate this process to a degree it can, because we are
two (2) public bodies trying to do - public benefit. And the process that would allow for
that, it allows for citizen objection, if someone did object - we would certainly want to
get rid of the 'Conditional Use' too. So, if you're dealing within the - line with the PUD
(Planned Unit Development) issue, and then, if we had a sense from you."
Mayor Bush said, "Well, I think the Commission has agreed in principle, this should be
fast tracked as long as we're staying within the laws that we're required to stay within.
So, I think it will become something that our Attorney and the Land Planning people
work out to get this moving. We don't want to make you do anything that you don't need
to do either. I think that's a waste of your time and your staff s time as well. So, if that
can be avoided, let's avoid it."
County Commissioner Morris said, "That would be great because - that just - adds
expense and adds time."
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With further discussion, Mayor Bush remarked, "Well, I think your promise to keep the
citizens informed - and the Winter Springs Commissioners informed is an excellent idea
and we will put it on our Website as well and make sure that our citizens are aware of
anything that you have written down and if it has changed." County Commissioner
Morris said, "Great."
Discussion.
Mr. Chuck Scales, 900 Crooked Oak Court, Longwood, Florida: asked if Mr. Gasparini
could discuss a few things with him.
Mr. John Drehoff, 105 Atrium Court, Winter Springs, Florida: suggested the four (4)
fields be used as multi-purpose fields and mentioned the sport of Lacrosse is growing and
also needs field space. This was confirmed.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Bush adjourned the Neighborhood Meeting at approximately 7:59 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
DANIELLE HARKER,
ASSIST ANT TO THE CITY CLERK AND
J
AN A LORENZO-LUACES, CMC
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