HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995 09 25 City Commission Regular Minutes
REGULAR MEETING
CITY COMMISSION
SEPTEMBER 25, 1995
The Regular Meeting of the City Commission of the City of Winter Springs, Florida was called to
order by Mayor John F. Bush at 7:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Mayor John F. Bush, present
Deputy Mayor John Langellotti, present
City Manager John Govoruhk, present
City Attorney Frank Kruppenbacher, present
Attorney Tom Lang, present
COMMISSIONERS:
Larry Conniff, present
John Ferring, present
Cindy Gennell, present
David McLeod, present
For the invocation Mayor Bush asked for a moment of silent prayer.
Approval of Minutes of September 11. 1995:
Mayor Bush asked if there were any corrections or additions to the minutes of September 11, 1995.
There were no additions or corrections to the minutes of September 11, 1995. Minutes stand
approved as presented.
Mayor Bush announced that the presentation of Resolutions 768 and 769 will be postponed as the
recipients are not present.
PUBLIC INPUT
Tom O'Connell, 1718 Seneca Blvd., and Vice President of the Chelsea Woods Homeowners
Association, complemented the Police Department under Chief Sexton on the increased patrols they
have seen within the Chelsea Woods subdivision; more random patrols have been noted. Mr.
O'Connell also complemented Chief Lallathin for his actions on Friday when a garbage truck's
hydraulics blew in the road, I called ChiefLallathin and within five minutes there was a fire truck on
the scene and within ten minutes there was a Hazmat folks were there and the matter was taken care
of within an hour. Mr. O'Connell also complemented Kip Lockcuff, the Public Works Director and
stated that it is nice to see a Public Works Dept. that is forward thinking when the hurricane came
through and the quick response job in replacing the split rail fence along the Florida Power easement
along Seneca.
Mr. O'Connell then stated at the June 26, 1995 meetings minutes pages 9 and 10 there was the issue
of the Architectural Review Board being required to sign off on a building permit prior to the City
issuing the permit, that is the way the procedures have been for years. I understand Mr.
Kruppenbacher saying that the City is not responsible for deed restriction enforcement; however, in
a non-mandatory homeowners assoc. such as Chelsea Woods, you have just pulled the last safety net
from under us to make sure that those homes that are not members of the Assoc. cannot violate deed
restrictions, but now they can. We have a problem with that, we do not have the monies to place
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 2
liens on the property. A mandatory homeowners assoc. can raise dues to pay for court costs, but we
cannot do that, ifwe raise dues we loose members. Had you sought public comment, you would have
heard the viewpoint of a non-mandatory homeowners assoc., we regret that it came late in the agenda
and was not a scheduled agenda item and we are disappointed with that change in policy.
Mr. O'Connell said on the June 12, 1995 meeting, there were some very unprofessional remarks made
by member of the City Staff on the dias, I suggest that each one of you and the Mayor review the
tapes ofthat particular meeting (06-12-95) and see if you can't come to the same conclusion I did,
that that was not the way the City is suppose to do business. The City Commission meeting is
suppose to be run by the Mayor and the City Commissioners are suppose to be in charge; that was
not the case, I urge you to review those tapes and ask yourselves whether in fact you are doing the
City justice with a performance that occurred on June 12, 1995. I would appreciate a personal call
from each of you after you have had a chance to review the tapes.
Mayor Bush stated he asked the United Way Staff Member to make a presentation tonight.
Ms. Wendy Hibrich, Staff Member for the Heart of Florida United Way, I came on the request of
Mayor Bush and City Manager, first to thank the City of Winter Springs for their continuing support
of the communities of Seminole, Orange and Osceola Counties with their support in the United Way
campaign. I wanted to let you know that in the Seminole County area, Winter Springs raises the
second most amount of money out of all the public municipalities in Seminole County. Out of all the
three Counties, it raises the third. That is something that you should commend not only your selves
but your employees on. I am also here to let you know that in the Seminole County area there are
21 out of our 81 agencies that are in Seminole County; there are two that are actually in Winter
Springs, one being the Grove Counselling Center and the second being a branch for the Visiting
Nurses Association. I am actually coming here and asking for the Commissioners support for the
United Way Campaign and to support the employees of the City, who are actually beginning their
campaign, they have started already and should be finished within a few weeks and it is going well.
On behalf of Tom Yokum, the Campaign Chairman, and all the volunteers of United Way, we thank
you.
Mayor Bush stated to the Commission that he asked Ms. Hibrich to come to the Commission because
he wanted her to point out the level of giving that the employees of our City have given the United
Way, I thought it was something that the Commission should be aware of With Ms. Hibrich's
assistance, we have put a letter out to the employees again this year about the campaign and it has
already gone out to the employees.
Ms. Hibrich gave the Mayor and Commissioners a directory of the United Way's community services
and pocket guide a pocket guide of the community services and also a pledge card. Mayor Bush
mentioned that if the Commission gives to the United Way it will go along with the City's
contribution.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 3
GENERAL AGENDA
Final Budget Hearing - FY 1995-1996 Budget- General Fund, Special and State: 1) Second Reading
of Budget Ordinance No. 590. 2) Adopt: (a) Resolution 770 setting the Ad Valorem Tax Millage
Rate for Fiscal Year 1995-1996: (b) Adopt Budget Ordinance No. 590:
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ordinance No. 590, Second Reading by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Langellotti to read Ordinance 590 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Ferring. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye;
Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye.
Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ordinance 590 by title only.
Mayor Bush closed the Regular Meeting and opened the Public Hearing.
Carl Stephens, 700 Fisher Road, Vice President of the Ranchlands Homeowners Association, spoke
regarding the paving of the Ranchlands. Mr. Stephens said until recently the belief was if the
Ranchlands were ever paved it would be because the majority of the Ranchlands residents voted in
favor of it on the surveys that the City would mail out whenever the issue reached a critical point.
So far the majority of residents have voted against paving as shown in the City's paving summary
results published in February of this year. The majority of residents voted against paving at the price
of $38.30 per linear foot or $19.15 per foot per side. In question number 6 of the survey the majority
said they were against paving even if the City paid for 50% of that cost. As a result of that survey the
Commission mutually agreed that the paving issue would be dropped until the majority of the citizens
voted other wise, and other means would be used to make drainage improvements. You can imagine
the surprise of many residents when they just recently learned that money has been put in the City's
budget for paving of certain roads in the Ranchlands. This was done without their knowledge or
consent first. As a representative of the Association, I spoke with the Public Works director Kip
Lockcuff and asked him why this was done after the results of the survey showed that the majority
clearly opposed paving. Mr. LockcufPs response was "that survey was if the residents had to pay,
the cost of this paving will be covered by builder impact fees. Those roads to be paved are designated
collector roads and impact fees can be used to cover the cost." It is true that the survey did not cover
the aspect of free paving, but it seems that the appropriate and ethical method would have been to
notifY the residents first, not make assumptions that the residents will automatically accept a freebie
or assume that it is ok to pave just because the roads are bad. There are also residents who have
concerns that live on nearby roads; they wonder what the future will be for them since the roads are
not designated collector roads and feel they could eventually be pressured to pay for paving once
these nearby roads fall. Some feel this is an attempt to piece by piece pave the Ranchlands; they also
noticed that the Staff is now claiming the price to be $200.00 per linear foot and wonder why the
sudden jump from $38.30 per foot to the now $200.00 and we're wondering who really does know
what the cost of paving is in the Ranchlands. As I mentioned before the Homeowners Assoc. has
remained neutral thus far based on the assumption that the residents would decide not the City Staff.
The Associations only interest has been that the issue is handled fairly and making sure that the
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 4
majority ruled, if and when the topic arose. Mr. Lockcuff is right the last survey did not cover the
circumstance of paving free of charge; but the fact that it was not covered at all in that survey should
be reason enough not to act on the issue not without surveying all the residents of the Ranchlands
first on this sudden new approach. The Board of the Homeowners Assoc. will bring this issue to it's
members in an October meeting, we feel that the residents should have a say in this matter. We don't
pretend to know what the response will be of those living on the roads that will be paved for free, we
do know that some are concerned that live near those roads and some are concerned who live near
those roads and all residents should be given a chance to respond if part of this unique community
is to be covered with asphalt. After all that would eventually have an effect on the whole atmosphere
of the Ranchlands; an area designated as Rustic Residential in the Compo Plan to protect the quality
country atmosphere. I can't promise you that the homeowners Assoc. will remain neutral on this issue
that the City Staff is allowed to operate in this manner. The Homeowners Assoc. may be forced to
take a stand on this issue if a democratic method is not used by the City in dealing with this. Weare
asking that the City Commission to put an indefinite hold for any preliminary or final paving steps and
paving money targeted for these roads until the Homeowners Assoc. holds a meeting and gets a
response from it's members and gets a response from it's members on this important issue and a
satisfactory solution to all is reached. We also feel that other alternatives should be explored if these
are real problem roads; after all if these roads have been such a problem, then they have been a
problem for quite awhile, why the sudden rush without any notification to us; why the sudden rush
to pave now, is there something else that we don't know about? We are referring only to the dirt
roads in our area that are currently listed in the budget; what we are really asking is for you to follow
the good old American way, let the communities decide on their own; any inconvenience to the Staff
of the City is not half as important as our right to protect our community and our voice.
Mr. Knolls, 135 E. Panama Rd., said he wished they were all collector roads and then they could get
the paving done and stated that he has no complaints about the paving at all except he would like to
know whether anyone took into consideration the one bad spot which is about 500'-1000' east of the
intersection that goes under water whenever there is a little bit of rain. It is in front of 115 Panama
Rd. E., I was wondering if we could get some kind of drainage in that one spot.
Rev. Neil Backus, 110 E. Panama Rd., and 415 Moss Rd., said he has a total frontage of933 feet and
on the Moss side a total of 455 feet; 250 feet on 415 S. Moss, and 205 (a little over) feet on E.
Panama. I am in favor of paving and if they want to run City water at the same time, I'll pay for a
hook up fee on 415 S. Moss only and if they run sewer I'll pay for a hook up fee on that. Since you
turned down my conditional use appeal on January 9. 1995, I've had it up for sale and realtors and
clients rejected standing water in the middle and standing water on the roads and it's hurting the sale
of my property. Furthermore I need to know whether you are going to pave or not because right now
the realtor's listing has run out and have my own sign up but I need to get back with other realtors.
I'm trying to sell that property to buy C-l property downtown for a church site. I'm under a hardship
condition trying to sell it, I would appreciate it if you would consider the paving.
Tom O'Connell, 1718 Seneca Blvd., asked how much monies of the FY 95-96 budget is being
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 5
allocated for the Winter Springs Civic Assoc. Commissioner Ferring said nothing is allocated for the
Winter Springs Civic Assoc., the only thing that is allocated is for the newsletter, the Winter Springs
Bulletin and that comes under community allocation.
Judy Green, 120 W. Panama Rd., spoke in favor of the paving, and said her main concern is that the
traffic is going to continue to increase because of the homes that are being built. I'm sure it has
created a hardship on the City because you are out there two to three times a week if not more,
depending on the whether with grading. My main concern is the drainage, we already have a serious
drainage problem, and asked how the drainage is going to be handled if you do go with the paving
of Moss Rd., where is the drainage going to be going to.
Commissioner Ferring said he wanted to make a correction to Mr. O'Connell's question. There was
an allocation from the City to the Winter Springs Civic Assoc. of $1,000 towards the cost of the
annual Christmas Parade, that has been done every year for 11 years.
Commissioner McLeod stated that his understanding is that the three parcels are each 1,000 to 1,500
foot strips. At the time I don't believe that any Commissioner felt and that he didn't feel that the City
was trying to infringe on the rights of the people of the Ranchlands. It was explained that there were
problem areas with major drainage problems to the Commission when we were looking at the budget.
With that in mind, I believe that is how we all perceived what was there and I think the questions that
becomes what is going to be in next years budget and I think that is the concerns with the
homeowners are at present. Commissioner McLeod then asked Mr. Lockcutfwhat are his plans for
next year in the Ranchlands - is there further paving plans, and the question was asked to me if this
is the beginning to slowly pave the Ranchlands from Staff.
Mr. Lockcutf said no, next year he will recommend to the Commission that we replace the Hayes
Road Bridge over Gee Creek and raise the Hayes Rd./ Alton Rd. intersection with the same funds.
Because we have had a lot of extreme weather conditions lately in the last year and we have a good
idea where the deficiencies are in our collector road system and I think those four areas will help to
correct that. Discussion. Mr. Lockcutf stated that there are things in the Compo Plan identifying
collector roads in the Ranchlands, for example it is calling for Panama to get "punched" through to
Winding Hollow that need to be identified~ if we are not going to do them, we need to take them out.
I'm not going to propose those, but I think I would be remiss if I didn't at some point say we either
have to do this or take it out of the Compo Plan.
Commissioner McLeod said he thinks that is something that the people in the Ranchlands needs to
come back and address to the Commission.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said to the Mayor and Commission that he believes that the Commission
previously gave a directive at the end of the litigation involving the Ranchlands, to go through the
Compo Plan and identify and recommend deletions, I don't know where that is, but you already have
given that direction that that be brought back to you, a complete summary of those issues.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 6
Commissioner McLeod stated that he thinks that the City Manager needs to see that that's followed
through and brought back to us.
Manager Govoruhk said we have already given you that one amendment from this end here, to
eliminate all the way down the back section. Discussion. Manager Govoruhk said also the part on
Shore Rd., which would be with that project with all the property in the Florida Power easement has
been eliminated, which is also part of that roadway.
Commissioner McLeod said he thinks the concern part would be Panama, because he thinks that
Panama is still showing as a collector and I think we need to have that on an agenda at a later date
to determine what we are going to do with it.
Commissioner Ferring said going back a short period of time, we did go through this whole issue
regarding the paving of the Ranchlands. In good faith we sent out a survey and the overwhelming
majority of the people in the Ranchlands said they didn't want their roads paved. I think that is a clear
sign of the direction we should be going at this particular point. True, there was cost factors involved
in that survey at that time but if there is going to be paving with impact fees, or is there are impact
fees I think we should be concentrating more on the drainage problems that we have in those areas
as opposed to paving those roads, I think that is what the intention was - to eliminate the drainage
problems that E. Panama, these are the areas that I think need the major priority as opposed to going
ahead and making more impervious surfaces over there. I have to agree with Mr. Stephen's summary
that I think we would be better off not paving those Ranchlands Roads and using that money towards
the drainage problems in that area. We've "kicked" the heck out of the Ranchlands people enough
as it is, with that one project, so I think that particular case we can hold off on the paving.
Commissioner Conniff asked if Staff can assist the Commission if the paving help alleviate the
drainage problem, or can we just address the drainage problem or is that imperative that we have the
paving and the drainage. Mr. Lockcuff stated we certainly address the drainage.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said the only thing he wants Staff to be careful of is in reading the issue of
what roads to move in and out of the Compo Plan in terms of collector roads; they very carefully need
to read the impact fee ordinance so that we coordinate it in such a way that we achieve your objective
without loosing the ability to use the impact fees for those roads. You could inadvertently trigger
a loss of those funds and everybody needs to be aware of that; so we are looking at it from day one.
Mayor Bush said Commissioner Ferring was basically suggesting that the paving not be done, how
does the rest of the Commission feel about that.
Commissioner Langellotti said he agrees, let's do the drainage.
Commissioner McLeod said if Staffs recommendation is that the drainage will resolve the problems
then I don't see why the necessity for black-top; I think it needs to go back to Staff, at this time my
recommendation would be that Staff look at it and come back with the reasonings of the whys and
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 7
why nots. Commissioner Conniff said he agrees with that. Commissioner McLeod said and at this
time we could still go ahead and approve the budget but no paving be approved to take place until
that study comes back and the people from the Ranchlands have the opportunity to have input to this
Commission; I think that is what I'm hearing the President and Vice President of the Ranchlands
asking for.
Commissioner Gennell said she agrees with Commissioner McLeod, I think we send it to Staff and
have them bring it back, and if in fact they come back with a recommendation that is essential in some
areas to pave certain areas, then that will be the cure.
Mayor Bush said the fact that this is approved and in the budget doesn't mean that it has to be done.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said you can approve the budget and give direction to the Manager, that he
is not authorized to spend a dollar on paving those roads.
Mayor Bush said the feels that this is the direction that the Commission has given the Manager at this
point.
Mr. Lockcuff said one clarification - is the Commission excluding the Moss Rd. bridge - can we
proceed with that. The Commission said correct.
Mayor Bush said for the City Manager and Mr. Lockcuff get together and come back to the
Commission with what they heard from the Commission and then it can be put out to the public and
be addressed at a later meeting. Mr. Lockcuff said that he thinks that the Commission needs to look
at the whole collector road system and identify what they want to be a collector road and what they
don't want to be a collector road.
Mayor Bush closed the public hearing and reopened the regular meeting.
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Resolution 770 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to read Resolution 770 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Ferring. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Langellotti:
aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye. Motion
passes.
Attorney Kruppenbacher read Resolution 770 by title only and stated this Resolution sets the tax
millage rate at 3.7023 mil.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to approve Resolution 770, a Resolution of the City of
Winter Springs setting the ad valorem tax millage rate at 3.7023 mills. for the City of Winter Springs,
Florida for fiscal year 95-96. Seconded by Commissioner Conniff Discussion. Vote: Commissioner
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 8
Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff:
aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye. Motion passes.
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ordinance 590 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to read Ordinance 590 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: nay; Commissioner McLeod:
aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring; aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye. Motion
passes.
Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ordinance 590 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to approve Ordinance 590, and ordinance of the City of
Winter Springs, Florida, adopting the municipal budget for the fiscal year 95-96. Seconded by
Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Commissioner Gennell stated that she is going to vote against
this for the same reason she voted against it last time, the City is just not being equitable with the park
funds and said she doesn't care what you say about next year you get, next year they can revise the
plans and the west side of the City won't get; they took the lights out of Moss Rd. park to put in the
putt-putt; they sold the old City Hall for a barber shop; we have a lot of children over there and they
are not getting the benefit of the park money and I am just opposed to it the way it's written.
Commissioner Ferring said in response to Commissioner Gennell's statement, we went through his
budget on an item by item basis and at the time we went through the budget, the Department Heads
were given a five year plan, the five year plan more than takes into effect what is going to be given
to the sections of the City that she is indicating that are not being taken care of in the first year. There
are five years plans and I have to complement the parks and recreation Director for his foresight in
what he is doing; we are not looking to polarize the City and to say that Tuscawilla is getting
everything like the Commissioner is indicating, is not a very accurate and fair statement. The five
year plan is there and is more than generous to all parts of the City and said he thinks it is well
planned. Commissioner Gennell said if it is a five year plan and it's meant to be equitable, then the
first year can be equitable too, that's not good reasoning, the money could have been spread better
and anybody that looks at it will be able to see that and I've raised this from the very first workshop
that we had. Vote: Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring:
aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: nay. Motion passes.
Second Reading and Public Hearing Ord. 588 - Establishing a Fire Public Safety Facilities Impact Fee;
Providing for definitions, applicability and exemptions; providing for rates, time of payment, credits;
providing for the use of proceeds and a trust fund for monies collected; providing for refunds,
determination of vested rights. penalties. providing for severability: conflicts and effective date:
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 588 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to read Ord. 588 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Conniff. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye;
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 9
Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye. Motion
passes.
Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ord. 588 by title only. Attorney Kruppenbacher said on page 3,
paragraph 2-c, there is a scribner's's error and the #5 for the Chapter should be #6.
Mayor Bush said he has a question on Section 3, items And H, where it says this article shall apply
to all new construction in the City limits excepts the following and then G is construction associated
with raising animals and H is construction related to agriculture; are we required by State Statutes
to have those exemptions in there. Attorney Kruppenbacher said there is a law that indicated that
when you get into those issues you are dealing with exempt areas to our background, being an
Aquarian State, we will double check it anyway to take it out, but currently the way we saw it initially
was you had to leave it in.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to approve Ord. 588, an ordinance of the City of Winter
Springs, Florida, establishing a Fire Public Safety Facilities Impact Fee, with the change in paragraph
2 on page 3. Seconded by Commissioner McLeod. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: aye;
Commissioner Ferring; aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye;
Commissioner Conniff: aye. Motion passes.
Mayor Bush closed the regular meeting and opened the Public Hearing. Mayor Bush asked if there
was anyone present who wishes to speak on this ordinance.
Ms. Gillmore, 220 E. Bahama Rd., asked if this is an additional tax, will this come in the millage, and
how will this be assessed. Commissioner Ferring said this is an impact fee that is born upon
developers developing property; it has no influence on somebody that is already living in the
residence. Mayor Bush said it is only on new construction.
Second Reading and public hearing Ord. 589 - Amending Chapter 9, Land Development. Article VII.
Impact Fees. Division 2, Transportation Facilities; Section 9-386.16 severability, conflicts and
effective date:
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 589 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to read Ord. 589 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner F erring: aye; Commissioner Conniff:
aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye.
Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ord. 589 by title only. Attorney Kruppenbacher stated that the City
Manager is giving out corrected information from Staff regarding appendix B, we would ask that you
set tonight an additional third readinglPublic Hearing that will advertise this document as amended
with the new appendix, I believe that this change is a substantial change to this document.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 10
Discussion.
Mayor Bush closed the regular meeting and opened the Public Hearing. Mayor Bush asked if there
was any comments from the public on Ord. 589. Mayor Bush said he has one comment, on the
second page where Section 9.3 86 stating where a sole decision in this matter will be made by the City
Manager or his designee. Discussion. Mayor Bush said it seems to him that that decision would be
made by the Commission. Attorney Kruppenbacher said you have the descression to change that; we
will make that change tonight and have the Commission be the one's who authorize any change or
reduction, you do that when we award impact fee credits, we come to you with those agreements for
your approval; so if you want to make this change in the current ordinance, we can make it. I think
you probably more prudent to do that. Discussion.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said if he may suggestion: the decision in this matter will be made by the
City Commission and then the Staff can bring the Commission a recommendation.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to table Ord. 589, to be brought back at the next
Commission meeting for a third public hearing and the decision will be made by the Commission at
that time. Attorney K1Uppenbacher said the motion should not be to table but to go out for a Public
Hearing/third reading amending the Ord. to reflect the new appendix and the change that the City
Commission will have the final say. Commissioner Ferring agreed to amend his motion to state what
the Attorney stated. Seconded by Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner
Ferrlng: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye;
Commissioner Langellotti: aye. Motion passes.
Second Reading and Public Hearing Ord. 595 - Amending Article III, Sections 10-51 through Section
10-110, nude entertainment, of the code of Ordinances of the City of Winter Springs, Florida, in its
entirety. providing for conflict. severability. and effective date:
Mayor Bush announced that this item will be pulled and will be on the agenda at the next regular
scheduled meeting, October 9, 1995 at 7:30 p.m.
Second Reading and Public Hearing Ord. 596 - Leffler Rezoning Property located north of S.R. 434
and immediate east of Seminole County School Board Facility from Rural Urban (R-U) to Planned
Unit Development (PUD):
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 596 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to read Ord. 596 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Commissioner Conniff said if it's in our Charter that the
Attorney only reads by title only, why do we have to make a motion. Attorney Kruppenbacher said
for right now he would prefer that the Commission keeps making that motion and we'll talk about that
issue later, it's in your Charter, but there is some issue with the State Law and he doesn't want to be
having a challenge on that issue. Vote: Commissioner Ferring; aye; Commissioner: Langellotti: aye;
Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye. Motion
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 11
carnes. Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ord. 596 by title only.
Mayor Bush closed the regular meeting and opened the Public Hearing.
Andrew O'Brien, resident of Winding Hollow, and said since he has looked at the property in March
and purchased our lot, as I drove home this evening there certainly has been quite a change in the area
with the expansion of 434. The effects of that construction has already had some (he believes) impact
on his property and is not sure it is the expansion construction from 434 or simply a drainage problem
within the D.R. Horton subdivision of Winding Hollow. In light of that drainage issue that I'm trying
to deal with now along with some misrepresentation by the building as to the current zoning, that I'm
now aware of is in place, and now discussion rezoning. This area was presented to me as protected
wetlands; many of the other current residents in Winding Hollow (total ofa couple dozen homes)
have gotten varied opinions of how the builders have presented the zoning to them. I also question
the future construction with the rezoning, how the utilities will be provided, what effect that
construction may have on drainage. In the area behind my home and see that there is an eagle's nest
in the area and I've been informed that there are a couple of eagle nests in the area, and I question
what effect on the natural environment this construction may have and the final point, I do have
children in both middle and high schools and coming into the area that was one of the first issues that
has been brought to may attention and understand that it has been quite an ordeal and that in effect
has the rezoning of this area been review in light of the redistricting that is just being done with the
School system - how will that affect that redistricting? Will we be looking at a short term one
year/two year time, which due to this development that that we redistrict and move the children again.
Discussion.
Commissioner Ferring said to Mr. O'Brien that the Commission appreciates his concern, it has been
a concern that we all have had regarding the Districting of the Schools. Unfortunately, we do not
deal with the Districting, we can only try to submit our thoughts to the School Board, but the
Districting is beyond our control and we have no clout in that area. As far as the rest of your problem
regarding the drainage, I would suggest, because you are south of 434, that you could make an
appointment with the City Manager who might put you with the Staff and give you some type of an
overview on what is happening in that whole area and it might give you a little more information that
you might want. Mr. O'Brien said he appreciates that and his neighbor is in touch with the City
Manager and believe that the work that has been done at this point is based on that contact. My
request is that Winter Springs is a very young development (I moved in the last couple of weeks )we
are all new residents and are just bringing our association together, we are making these contacts,
there is a number of questions and I would ask that a decision be held off until the next meeting to
give us time to answer the questions that we have and to get in contact with City Managers, to get
in contact with the people we know to satisty our positions. Commissioner F erring said unfortunately
he doesn't think Mr. O'Brien will have much standing on that because a decision has to be made
tonight. Discussion. Commissioner Ferring said we have had this through already, this is the second
reading and it's a Public Hearing and you have a right to air your feelings, you haven't come up with
anything definitive at this point other than generalizations. Mr. O'Brien said in light of that this has
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 12
been on twice, and the next meeting is October 9, 1995, that time frame, what negative effect
delaying a decision till that time would have on this issue.
Commissioner Gennell said as far as delaying, it has been through our Boards and our Site Plan
review Committee and it's been up here a couple of times, and I appreciate that you are new and it
is not familiar to you, just trust that it is familiar to a lot of people that are skilled in that area and I
would refer you back to the City Staff to address some of your concerns. I'm glad to see you here,
I appreciate, that is a nice subdivision and hope to see more of you in here from time to time. Did
you say that it was represented to you that the piece across from you was all wetlands? Mr. O'Brien
said yes, the railroad tracks that are there will be removed and will be turned into a bike path. My
lot is lot 11 which is the most northwest corner of the subdivision and to the west and north of me
was protected wetlands and I would not have neighbors. Commissioner Gennell said she would send
him back to the salesman that sold his house but also I think you need to be aware that there are a
lot of agencies that have oversight on this too, as far as the eagles and so forth, they will be watching
out for those kinds of things. These people have to go through a lot of "hoops", but also by holding
it up in what we might deem unnecessarily, it holds them up in their financing and everything that they
have got out there and in place and pending, so it is not really fair to the developer to do that if we
don't really see a sufficient need and I think a lot of your concerns can be satisfied through Staff and
as for the School Board I talked to them about that kind of a proximity to the high school, they told
me that anybody that close to the high school, it would be very unusual to move them out of that
area; the middle school she can't say. Commissioner Gennell gave Mr. O'brien Ms. Diane Kramer's
name for a contact person at the School Board.
Commissioner McLeod said that he believes some of the wetland area Mr. O'Brien is referring to is
to the east of the subdivision and a lot of that property has been donated to the City for parks and
recreation and will be used in that manner. Discussion.
Mr. Robert Capmier, 114 Brookshire Court, Winding Hollow subdivision, stated his concern with
the area directly across is that they have no idea what is going on around us. As opening up another
potential area that can be commercial is a little frightening to us, we don't have our Board together
yet to do anything about this, but will be a substantial Orgiznation, we are looking 450 homes in this
area and a 200 acre park in this area which is the biggest park in Winter Springs. I feel that when we
are asking to come in and be recognized, we are considering the future values are to our property,
we are considering what the future social effects from commercial development; these are types of
things that we want to address and do need time to do that. This is the first meeting that I have
attended and I have been here less than two months, we want to make sure that we know what is
going on and the only way to do that is come here. Ifwe have to beg a little time here and there, that
is the only weapon we have at this point, we don't have a robot to give us all the readouts of
everything that you gentlemen have worked on for so long, but we do need to have a little time to
pull things together. We are appealing to you to give us a little time to straighten this out, we may
have no problem with the north area, but because there is so much going on around us. I appreciate
the money that a person has in developing it, but take into consideration that we are not developers,
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 13
we have a lot of our money into where we are at so it is a two way "road".
Commissioner Gennell said this is just a preliminary land use change, you will have ample
opportunities in the future to come in as they develop the property and bring in further plans, there
will be public meetings and input. Mr. Capmier said the PUD certification does open it up for the
possibility of commercial is that correct. Commissioner Gennell said yes. Mr. Capmier said he
understands how the procedure works, we are trying to get caught up a bit.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to approve Ord. 596, an ordinance of the City of Winter
Springs, Florida, rezoning lots 4,5,6,and 7, block C of D.r. Mitchells Survey. Seconded by
Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Gennell:
aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Ferring; aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye. Motion
passes.
Second Reading and Public Hearing Ord. 597 - Establishing a Police Public Safety Facilities impact
fee; providing for definitions; applicability and exemptions, rates credits, providing for the use of
proceeds and a trust fund for monies collected; providing for refunds, determination of vested rights,
penalties: providing for severability. conflicts and effective date:
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord.597 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to read Ord. 597 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Conniff Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye;
Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion
passes. Attorney Kruppenbacher read ord. 597 by title only. Attorney Kruppenbacher said on page
3, paragraph 2-C, scribner error of 5 should be replaced with 6 and the Ordinance should reflect that
it is replacing Section 9-391 of the current code of ordinances.
Mayor Bush closed the regular meeting and opened the public hearing. Mayor Bush asked if there
was any members of the public who wishes to speak regarding this ordinance; this is an increase in
impact fees, it does not effect current taxpayers. There was no one who wished to speak regarding
this Ord. Mayor Bush closed the Public Hearing and reopened the regular meeting.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to approve Ord. 597, and ordinance of the City of Winter
Springs, Florida establishing a Police Public Safety Facilities impact fee as amended with the scribner
corrections. Seconded by Commissioner Conniff. Discussion. Commissioner McLeod asked if the
Commission approves the credits. Attorney Kruppenbacher said the practice and legal advise that
has been given to this City is no credits can be given without the City Commission authorizing the
credits. Vote: Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell:
aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye. Motion passes.
Second Reading and Public Hearing Ord. 598 - Providing for a change of scale to the Official Zoning
Map: providing for conflicts. severability and effective date:
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 14
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 598 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to read Ord. 598 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner
Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye.
Motion passes. Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ord. 598 by title only.
Mayor Bush closed the regular meeting and opened the Public Hearing. Mayor Bush asked if there
was anyone from the public who wished to speak on Ord. 598. There was no one who wished to
speak on ord. 598. Mayor Bush closed the Public Hearing and reopened the regular meeting.
Discussion by the Commission.
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to approve Ord. 598. Seconded by Commissioner
Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennelt: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye. Motion passes.
Discussion of the City of Winter Springs Investment Policy with Mr. Lentz:
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated the Commission has in front of them the investment policy; in
darkened highlight are the changes per the last Commission discussion. Mr. Lentz is making one
further recommendation; on page 2 where it talks about every 2 years the depository service with the
bank - Mr. Lentz's recommendation will be every 3 years. Mr. Lang is present, so you have your
financial council as well as Mr. Lentz should there be any question from anyone, they ought to be
answered tonight.
Commissioner Ferring asked Mr. Lentz, that on the investment policy of the City of Winter Springs
the scope and purpose, this policy applies to the City of Winter Springs with the City in parentheses
which are not required to meet short term expenses including bond funds but excluding pension funds
in deferred compensation rates. Discussion. Mr. Lentz stated that the "not" should be removed.
Harry Martin, Finance Director, stated that why it says "not", what that is meant is monies that are
not necessary in the day to day operation, what some people might refer to as surplus monies but is
not really surplus, it is excess monies that is not required for day to day operation that we would
invest, that is why is says are "not" required to meet short term expenses. This would cover
investments of all other monies, that are not required to meet short term or daily operational
expenses. Discussion. Mr. Martin says it is less than thirty days, the day to day operation of money
that is needed. Mr. Martin said what this is saying is that this policy covers all those investments that
are not considered short term or day to day operations. Commissioner Ferring asked if the scope and
purpose of the investment policy for the whole document or just for short term. Mr. Martin said it
is for the whole document. Discussion.
Attorney Lang said that all you really are doing right now is the investment policy for other than the
short term funds. Your short term funds, the Finance Director keeps in a bank account, you don't
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 15
need an investment policy for that, this policy goes into the direct result of the California experience
and what you are dealing with is you are setting up what is considered to be an investment policy for
funds that go into investment accounts as opposed to a bank account. Your short term funds, which
would be your operating funds, go into the bank and wouldn't be covered by this policy.
Mr. Lentz stated as a result of what happened in Orange County, CA, and other losses incurred by
municipal governments through acquisitions of improper securities and proper securities, taking risk
on the bond market by State Law required to develop an investment policy, followed by written
procedures which will be presented at some later point to the Commission. This policy is written with
the understanding that you will get your principal back. We have been working with Mr. Martin and
your City Attorney for some time and drafting this policy, which other local governments are also
utilizing. Mr. Lentz went over the policy. The first one is the prudence - the prudence rule here is
we are not going to speculate with the securities that are being held in the City's account and the
preservation of capital is the most important element to the direction of the investment policy. The
objectives are safety, the preservation of capital, liquify, the fact that you all manage your investments
to meet your cash flow so you are not buying 30 year US treasury obligations to meet obligations
coming due in the next few months. The return on the investments is consistent with the safety and
liquify so you will not be earning 15% in a 6% environment; if that should happen I think you would
want to question it quite rapidly. Delegation of Authority - as I said the management responsibility
is going to be directed to City Manager, which is typical in most situations or the Finance Director.
Written procedures for the investment policy is not only approved by the City Manager but all so will
be approved by the City Commission. Ethics and conflicts of interest - that officers and employees
will not engage nor give the appearance of engaging in personal business with people that they are
dealing with. MontWy reposts will be submitted to the City Manager from the Finance Director and
the Finance Committee will meet every quarter to review the investment policies and also discuss
written procedures, market conditions and review compliance that the policy has been met. We
recommended that the depository services be selected every 3 years rather than 2, typically it's done
on most clients that we represent between 3 and 5 years, so that will be a normal process but it
certainly your descression to do it at any point you want; that would put less burden on your Finance
Department. Safe Keeping - all investments have to be protected for the use of custody and safe
keeping also all securities have to be purchased in the US dominated funds; and also delivery will be
made vs payment - meaning that if you buy securities from "X" they will not get paid until they deliver
the securities, you exchange the securities for cash, so that elevates the problem of some day someone
receiving your cash and not delivering your cash. Authorized investments - are primarily triple A in
nature, the highest grade so that your principle is protected. Internal controls - are not only going
to be reviewed by the Finance Committee and the City Commission but annually be reviewed by your
City Ordinances. Again this is the first step, the second step will be to establish written procedures
and I'd be happy answer any questions, this is a very conservative policy but I think it will serve you
and the City well in the long run and you will not be caught with securities that....
Mayor Bush said on page one - delegation of authority - you call it an investment program; this is an
investment policy isn't it, so shouldn't program really be policy there. Mr. Lentz said it could be
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 16
policy. Attorney Kruppenbacher said to keep it consistent we will change it to policy. Mayor Bush
said then in the next to the last sentence "such procedures shall be approved" shouldn't it be "such
procedures and policy shall be approved..." Mr. Lentz said that is fine. Mayor Bush said on the next
page under reporting"... the City Manager shall submit... . annual report" I'm wondering if quarterly
might be better with some comparative analysis at that time. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he believe
that the Commissions previously expressed intent was that you would receive a copy of the monthly
report that goes to the City Manager from the Finance Director which is in the last sentence so we
can add to that "a monthly report will be submitted to the City Commission and City Manager"
Mayor Bush said in the reporting it talks about a comprehensive review of investment activity and
performance for the year and I'm wondering if the Commission might want to see that quarterly vs
yearly, it is just a suggestion. Attorney Kruppenbacher said if he remembers correctly from the last
meeting, the plan was that you would get the same monthly report the Manager gets from Finance,
there is no reason for you not to get it. Mayor Bush said on page 3 at the top, the last sentence, it
says "The Finance Director will be responsible for all transactions undertaken - wouldn't that be the
City Manager to be responsible"? Attorney Kruppenbacher suggested that it could be the City
Manager or his designee. Mayor Bush said on page 4, internal controls - it says "the Finance Director
will establish a system of internal controls", I think that should also be the City Manager. Attorney
Kruppenbacher said then it will say "the City Manager or his designee" shall establish...
Commissioner Ferring said on page, last paragraph, it addresses procedures and says" will include
explicit delegation of authority to persons responsible for investment transactions" then on to say
".. the finance committee.." is this going to be limited to just the City Manager and Finance director
and Financial Advisors? Will that be the crux of the Finance Committee? Attorney Kruppenbacher
said that is how it's... Commissioner Ferring said on the top of page 2, first paragraph "The Finance
Director will be responsible for all transactions undertaken and ......" should that be a comma after
that and ".....will establish a system of controls to regulate the activities" I think we just said that the
City Manager will do that or designee. Commissioner Ferring said on the bank selection, I curious,
I want to know as to why you want to extend the length for three years; if the annual reports go to
the commission once a year and are audited once a year, why can't we have that same basis for the
banks. Mr. Lentz said it is just a time consuming thing, you could have the same basis but
...Commissioner Ferring said suppose the bank is not performing the way we want and if we have it
every three years, why can't we just have it annually like the reports are to the Commission. Attorney
Kruppenbacher said what we can do to achieve your objective is let them pick it for a three year but
in our depository agreement we will write in language that gives us the right to cancel it in thirty days
notice. Discussion.
Commissioner Ferring said on page 3, second paragraph it say the master purchase agreement
provided by the City; and asked where was the master purchase agreement. Attorney Lang said you
won't get that until you start actually doing some investment pursuant to the designation of the
depository institution and how you are going to invest your funds, then you will get a master purchase
agreement to put in place. On page 5, schedules A & B attached, I didn't see any schedules attached.
Attorney Lang said that will be when your Finance Committee gets together and establishes
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 17
procedures. Attorney Kruppenbacher asked Mr. Lentz and the Finance Director if they had a
problem with deleting the paragraph "Portfolio Composition and Diversification"? Mr. Lentz said
that wouldn't be a problem. Mr. Martin said that has already been compared but didn't go with what
went to the Commission.
Commissioner Ferring said the last is "Existing Investments....any investments currently held that do
not meet the guidelines of this policy will be exempted from the requirements of this policy. At
maturity or liquidation, such money so invested will be reinvested only as provided for in this policy. "
What I would like to know is, what securities are not in these guidelines and how much of the
securities is involved. Mr. Martin stated none, there are no funds invested in anything other than
what is here. Commissioner Ferring said why is it in. Attorney Lang said that was just incase there
was something, we had to put some broad language otherwise it is an automatic call provision, so if
the Finance Director has missed an investment that may not, which at this point we believe everything
is properly invested, if by chance he had missed something you may have to call something at a loss
in order to come into compliance and this is really a "catch all" to make sure that we don't create a
crisis for ourselves by passing it.
Commissioner McLeod said in the Banking Section, it is his understanding that every three years we
will go out for bid to a bank, then what you are saying you are going to add language to it to say that
either or party in thirty days can withdraw. Attorney Lang said yes. Commissioner McLeod said why
can't we add additional language if the Finance Committee and the City Manager is happy with the
services they are being provided that they have the option to extend that for a three, one year
extensions, which therefore saves the City money and time going through a process based on good
rapport by both parties. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he would qualify it subject to the Commission
approving. Discussion. Attorney Lang said that is a policy that could be implemented. Originally
it was put in so the Commission had the right every three years to decide what they wanted to do with
the depositories~ you could say that every three years you will decide whether you are going to extend
the existing depository or advertise or new depository institution, that is a policy decision the
Commission has to make. When it was drafted the intent was to give the Commission the option to
go out every three years so that every three years you would be reviewing your depository institution
to see if you are happy with it~ there is no reason why you couldn't say that it would be a three year
contract with the right to extend for one years periods up to a maximum of six years if the
performance has been satisfactory to the City Commission. Attorney Kruppenbacher said we will
change this to say that the City Commission reserves the right to go out for bid every three years or
to extend in successive one year agreements for no more than a six year term for the depository
without going out for a bid.
Commissioner Conniff asked the City Attorney if he is satisfied with this policy. Attorney
Kruppenbacher said your legal people are quite happy with this document the way it is drafted.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said you can move to approve this subject to the comments of the
Commission being incorporated to the final printed document and will return to you at the next
meeting a copy for your information.
?',' '-'''''('"~;-<'''';-
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 18
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to approve the investment policy as amended. Seconded
by Commissioner Ferring. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Conniff:
aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye.
Motion passes.
Second Reading and Public Hearing Ord. 599- Adopting the City of Winter Springs, Florida
Investment Policy: providing for conflicts. providing for severability. and effective date:
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 599 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to read Ord. 599 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner Conniff:
aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye.
Motion passes. Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ord. 599 by title only. Attorney Kruppenbacher said
that the Commission would move to approve the Ord. subject to the amendments to Exhibit "A",
which is as the Commission previously put in the record tonight.
Mayor Bush closed the Regular Meeting and opened the Public Hearing. Mayor Bush asked if there
was any person from the public wishing to make a comment on the Ord. There was no comment
from the public. Mayor Bush closed the Public Hearing and reopened the regular meeting.
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to adopt Ord. 599 with the corrections in Exhibit "A".
Seconded by Commissioner McLeod. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: aye; commissioner
Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner McLeod:
aye. Motion passes.
Approval/Disapproval Assignment of the Financial Consultant Agreement from Capital Market
Consultants. Inc.. to First Southwest Company:
Commissioner Ferring said this states pursuant to Sections 9 and 10 of the Financial Consultant
Agreement; and said all he sees is one page of the Financial Agreement and said he thinks it would
be a good idea if the Commission received a copy of the Financial Agreement and when does this
Financial Agreement end. Attorney Kruppenbacher said it continues until terminated by the City
Commission. Commissioner Ferring said he would appreciate if everybody on the Commission
receives a copy of the Financial Agreement. Mayor Bush said the City Manager will see the
Commission get a copy of the Financial Agreement. Discussion.
Motion was made by Commissioner Langellotti to approve the assignment of the Financial Consultant
Agreement from Capital Market Consultants, Inc., to First Southwest Company. Seconded by
Commissioner Conniff. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring; aye;
Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion
passes.
First Reading Ordinance 600 - Abandoning and Closing that portion ofN. Third Street Bounded on
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 19
the West by the projected easterly R-O-W line ofN. Fairfax Ave. and bounded on the East by the
projected Westerly R-O-W line of Moss Road of North Orlando, providing for conflicts, severability
and effective date:
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 600 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to read Ord. 600 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Conniff. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Langellotti:
aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye. motion
passes. Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ord. 600 by title only.
First Reading Ord. 601 - Rededicating that vacated R-O-W as a drainage and utility easement, that
portion on N. Third Street bounded on the west by the projected easterly R-O-W line ofN. Fairfax
Ave. and bounded on the East by the projected Westerly R-O-W line of Moss Road of North
Orlando. providing for conflicts. severability and effective date:
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 601 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring to read Ord. 601 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner Conniff. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell:
aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye. Motion
passes. Attorney Kruppenbacher read Ord. 601 by title only.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said he would like a motion to direct Staff to advertise Ordinances 600 and
601 for second reading.
Motion was made by Commissioner Conniff to direct Staff to advertise Ordinances 600 and 601 for
second reading. Seconded by Commissioner Ferring. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Langellotti:
aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye;
Commissioner Ferring: aye. Motion passes. Mayor Bush said the meeting for second reading of
Ordinances 600 and 601 will be October 23, 1995.
Discussion of the City of Casselberry/City of Winter Springs deannexationlannexation of property
located at Souther Portion of Winter Springs and on State Road 434 in Casselberry:
Attorney Lang said he apologizes in advance because he has to give a pretty convoluted explanation
on how we approached the question of contraction or deannexation and as you know the question
before you is whether or not to deannex some land that the City of Casselberry would like to use.
Under the law there are two ways you can deannex, 1) you as a Commission take the unilateral action
to introduce an ordinance and ask to have your boundaries contracted by excluding that land. 2) the
other alternative is you get a petition signed by 15% of the land owners within the area that has been
designated for exclusion or contraction. In this case since no one lives on the property the only
alternative you have is for you all to take that unilateral action to introduce the ordinance to contract
your boundaries and to deannex this property. In order to do that you have to comply with some
procedures that are set forth in Chapter 171 of Florida Statutes. There is a provision in Chapter 171
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 20
that is difficult to follow and I'll "walk" you through it: Chapter 171.052 says the criteria for
contraction of municipal boundaries: Only those areas which do not meet the criteria for annexation
under 171.043 may be proposed for exclusion by municipal governing bodies. The important word
is NOT, it says only those areas which do not meet the criteria for annexation can be deannexed~
which means that you (commission) has to make a finding that this property could not have been
annexed ifit was not already in the City. That gets convoluted, so what you're saying is in order to
deannex you have to make a finding that if you were to take the property out of the City and look at
it for annexation, it would not meet the criteria for annexation, in essence what the Legislature said
the only thing you can unilaterally deannex is that which shouldn't have been annexed to begin with.
So, you have to find that this property does not meet the statutory requirements for annexation in
order to deannex it. In order to do that you have to look at the criteria for annexation, there are three
elements that have to be met~ number 1 has got to be met and then one of the other two has got to
be met in order to annex. The first prong of the test is whether or not the total area to be annexed
is contiguous to the municipalities boundaries, that one is met, so it complies. Number 2 is a long
detailed explanation of what an urban purposes area is and I can tell you that you don't meet that.
Right now if number 3 isn't met then you would not meet the statutory requirements for annexation
and that would give you the ability to deannex~ unfortunately three is not so clear, we can't sit here
and tell you that #3 has been met what #3 says is: in addition to the area developed for urban
purposes a municipal governing body may include in the area to be annexed any area which does not
meet the requirements of subsection 2. (this property does not meet the elements of subsection 2 if
it meets one of the following two) The real question becomes 3-B and what is says is: the property
is adjacent on at least 60% of it's external boundaries to any combination of the municipal boundary
(in this case Winter Springs) and the boundary of an area or areas developed for urban purposes.
Meaning that you have high density residential growth or Winter Springs boundaries on 60% of the
property that you would be seeking to annex. The real issue is going to become the purpose for that
urban purpose property which is really in Casselberry and only your Planners can go through that with
Casselberry to determine whether or not we do or do not have the requisite ability to annex that
property. Ifwe do have the requisite ability then you cannot deannex it, if we don't have the requisite
ability then you could deannex it, but you are going to have to have your Planning Staff go through
with the Casselberry Planning Staff and determine whether or not they meet that definition of 3-B.
The convoluted position you are in is you have to make two decisions, as a matter of policy do you
want to proceed any further in talking about deannexation and if you want to do that then we go to
the next step which is to go ahead and advertise an ordinance for first reading for deannexation ask
you Staff to start doing the examination to determine whether or not this property qualifies. If the
property doesn't qualify for annexation if it was not in the City, then you could deannex it but your
Planning Staff would have to tell you that when it comes up for second reading. So, again, two
decisions that have to be made, as a matter of policy do you want to proceed further and if you do
then you need to introduce an ordinance that would authorize the deannexation of this property and
your Staff is going to have to go through this ordinance and determine whether or not you can do it.
Commissioner Ferring said what appeared to be a very simple transaction with the City of Casselberry
for intergovernmental cooperation, has turned out to be a nightmare as I see it. I think it is not worth
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 22
be Staff time, Attorney's time, advertisement and any time that the City Manager calculates up
retroactive; #2: that Mr. Lockcuffwould confer with Mr. Lang a plan that this Gee Creek problem
would be properly addressed by Casselberry and that subject to that being confirmed by the second
reading (we have the proposed ordinance, you can do the first reading tonight, and tell them you are
ready to go forward for second reading but these issues are going to have to be resolved by that night
or you are going to "kill" it. Discussion. Attorney Kruppenbacher said there is the additional removal
of the Casselberry sign on S.R. 434 that was agreed to in the early discussions with Mr. Govoruhk,
so that people weren't confused as they drove into the City; I think it is that simple, here is the deal
the City is willing to make to let the 19 acres go, if they don't do it, there is no deal.
Commissioner Gennell stated that the Attorney says he has the ordinance but it is not listed on the
agenda that way. Attorney Kruppenbacher said it was on discussion, we brought it tonight because
of this thing, so we ask you to put it on just for first reading to move the process. You have to draw
this to a conclusion, either they conform to the way you want them to or they can't and it's over with;
time will create a kill from what has been represented from their City. Commissioner Ferring said for
the Commissioners that are concerned about Gee Creek, to what extent do they want the City of
Casselberry to do to Gee Creek that will satisfy what your needs are. Discussion. Commissioner
Conniff said from what he remembers they said they would clean up their end and that was going to
help with the flow with Gee Creek coming through. We would have to pick up from there.
Commissioner Ferring said we should have our people involved in this to see what the full
ramifications of cleaning Gee Creek are. Attorney Kruppenbacher said his recommendation was that
Mr. Lockcuff, get with Mr. Grimms and say yes or no that it solves it. Discussion.
Mr. Lockcuff said we kind of had those discussions and they (Casselberry) are not really doing
anything with Gee Creek, they are going to clean the drainage ditch that is along the western
boundary of Newlon's property, partly in the City and partly in Casselberry, improve the drainage in
that area but it drains to Gee Creek, and he doesn't think they are doing any improvements to Gee
Creek itself Mr. Lockcuff said what they represented before was not improvements to Gee Creek
but to that drainage ditch along the western boundary line. Mr. Lockcuff pointed out on the map
where Gee Creek ran and what area he was talking about. Discussion. Commissioner McLeod asked
what was the main corridor, the first corridor that Gee Creek crossed. Mr. Lockcuff stated that it
was Murphy. Commissioner McLeod said would it be fair to say then that they (Casselberry) need
to make sure that it is clear to Murphy and slope properly there. Discussion.
Motion was made by Commissioner Gennell to place first reading of Ordinance 602 on the agenda.
Seconded by Commissioner McLeod. Discussion. Commissioner Ferring said if we put this on the
agenda, it is with the provisions that the Attorney and Utility Director pursue the discussions that we
were having regarding Gee Creek to the satisfaction of the Utility Director where it would benefit this
City and the people that affected by Gee Creek in that area in the City of Winter Springs and as long
as it is being done in that particular vain, he has no problem with putting that on the agenda. Vote:
Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: nay; Commissioner Gennell: aye;
Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: aye. Motion passes.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 21
pursuing for what they were going to give us for that little piece of property on the north side of 434,
I think: we are buying more than we really need to do and we are giving an awful lot up for it.
Commissioner GenneU said it occurs to her for one thing, that little piece across 434 probably fits into
the parameters of what Attorney Lang was speaking about. It is my understanding that the City
Casselberry voted last week and went ahead and deannexed that, by the same token it would seem
to me that the parcel that Commissioner Ferring is addressing would also fall under what Attorney
Lang was describing only as not being eligible for deannexation, so they might not have been an
option that Casselberry had. I don't personally mind entertaining this issue if we can help resolve
some of their problems, it's not a significant thing to us to cooperate with them on this issue;
however, in looking at what has already been involved and what may be involved, my personal feeling
is that we have somebody contact them, the City Manager or somebody, and advise them that it is
a "pain in the neck" and we are having to expend time and money looking at it and if they want us
to proceed any further that they will have to pay the bill for it at least.
Mayor Bush asked what will it cost the City to continue to pursue this. Attorney Kruppenbacher said
whatever it would cost, I think: Commissioner Gennell is correct, Attorney Lang's time, advertising,
and Staff time, should be calculated into a bill and given to Casselberry, if policy wise you decide you
want to do this. Mayor Bush said the Commission has to make a decision if they want to go ahead
with this, let Casselberry pay for it; Attorney Lang is asking direction from the Commission, do we
pursue it or let it die. Commissioner Ferring said he personally would like to drop the issue
completely. Discussion.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring not to proceed with this particular venture. Seconded
by Commissioner LangeUotti. Discussion. Commissioner Conniff said when we had the Casselberry
people here, he thinks they mentioned the fact that they were going to do something with Gee Creek
that would help unplug that area, is that correct? Manager Govoruhk said it would eventually help
the Gee Creek area, the main thing would help theirs and the water plant that they plan on fixing up
in the City of Casselberry. Commissioner McLeod said he remembers them saying that they were
going to clean that out for better water flow from that area. Discussion. Commissioner McLeod said
he thinks to be working with inter-governments, I don't know that we really have a problem of
working with them for deannexation based on the fact that they are footing the bill on this. If they
are not willing to foot the bill then that is a different issue, then it dies. Commissioner Conniff said
he would like to see that they (Casselberry) agree to do their part on Gee Creek to help alleviate, I
know it would help alleviate some of the Ranchlands problems also, if they are going to do this and
want this for their municipal yard, I don't see any problem asking them to go ahead and make that
part of the agreement. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: nay; Commissioner McLeod: nay;
Commissioner Conniff: nay; Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye. Motion
fails.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said if that vote means perceive this, you are saying proceed subject to the
following: Casselberry being told by Mr. Lang that they are going to pay for everything, which would
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 23
Mayor Bush asked for a motion to read Ord. 602 by title only.
Motion was made by Commissioner Gennell to read Ord. 602 by title only. Seconded by
Commissioner McLeod. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell:
aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye; Commissioner Conniff: nay; Commissioner Ferring: aye. Motion
passes. Attorney Lang read ordinance 602 in it's entirety.
Motion was made by Commissioner Ferring that the City Attorney and City Utility Director enter into
negotiations with the City of Casselberry regarding the straightening out of the Gee Creek problem
and that the fees incurred by this City, both attorney and any other administrative fees that were
involved be born by the City of Casselberry, retroactively from the time this originally came upon us.
Seconded by Commissioner Langellotti. Discussion. Commissioner McLeod asked Mr. Lockcuff
if it would be fair to ask the City of Casselberry to clean Gee Creek to the first major intersection;
and what distance are we talking about, from the boundaries of the property to the first major
intersection. Mr. Lockcuff said about one thousand feet. Commissioner McLeod said so we will ask
for 1,000' extending northeast of the property, is what we would like you to be looking with them
along what's in the property. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod: aye;
Commissioner Conni~ aye; Commissioner Ferring: aye; Commissioner Langellotti: aye. Motion
passes.
Seminole Batting Range - Commission Policy to be informed of all projects along S.R. 434 - Site Plan
Review Board approval for the addition of a Go Kart Track next to an existing batting range
(property located on eastern comer ofS.R. 434 and Belle Ave.):
Mr. LeBlanc said this if following the Commission policy of wanting to be informed of all projects
along S.R. 434. This is Seminole Batting Range, and their proposal is to add a miniature Go Kart
Track and it met with Site Plan Review Board; they recommended approval and bringing it to you
for your information.
Commissioner Gennell said she feels the owner can put in a couple more trees without hurting
themselves any.
Sal Mallo, owner of Seminole Batting Range, stated that they were going to put two trees in the
comer, he can also put in a couple more. Commissioner Gennell said in reference to the drawing that
the Commission has, where you have two retention ponds on S.R. 434, are they enclosed by chain
link fences. Mr. Mallo said no, they are already existing. Commissioner Gennell asked about trees
along the pond in the northeast portion. Mr. Mallo said no. Commissioner Gennell said in as much
as it is on S.R. 434 and we are doing our best to beautify S.R. 434, if you could put the trees up
there, that would satisfy me personally, to see more greenery along S.R. 434. Discussion.
Commissioner Ferring said his concern is one that Chief Sexton raised, regarding the center and
outside track having that rubber cushion, is that guard shown, will that be safe enough to the Karts
from jumping on those tracks. Mr. Mallow said yes, he has been dealing with Kart World, they are
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 24
help set me up with my plans and safety features and that is what they require on their tracks.
Discussion.
Commissioner Conniff asked how far was this from any residential areas, for the noise factor. Mr.
LeBlanc said the intersection ofSheoah and S.R. 434, there is no other residential area in the vicinity
and to the west, about 300 to 400 feet. We had addressed the noise factor and that is why the hours
of operation is until 9:00 p.m.
Mayor Bush asked how far from the school is this. Mr. LeBlanc stated that the school is another 400-
500 feet to the east of the property.
Commissioner Gennell asked if this would be open 7 days a week. Mr. Malo said yes. Commissioner
Gennell then asked if the track at any time under any conditions lend itself to any roller blade use or
anything. Mr. Mallo said no. Commissioner Gennell then asked mr. LeBlanc about the size
requirements of the trees that we are asking them to replace. Mr. LeBlanc said it was explained on
the plans, 6 to 15 inch caliper tree, laurel oak.
Commissioner Conniffsaid your recommendation is to go ahead with this. Mr. LeBlanc said that was
the Staff recommendation but if it is the Commission's desire to recommend we would like your
recommendation with the stipulation that trees be planted along S.R. 434 as Commissioner Gennell
mentioned.
Commissioner McLeod said you say there is no gas storage on site, you will purchase your fuel from
the convenience store, so does that mean you are not going to have a gas can or you are going to
have a gas can. Mr. Mallo said we probably will have a gas can, such as Public Works has on their
trucks, just to be there, but I am affiliated with the store so all my gas supplies and oil supplies will
be kept at the store. Commissioner McLeod asked where is the maintenance and repair going to be
done. Mr. Mallo said minor repairs will be done on premises and major repairs will be sent out.
Discussion.
Commissioner McLeod asked Mr. LeBlanc the guidelines of the repairs, he thinks it is important that
the Commission has an outline of what is considered in Mr. Mallo's mind of what is minor and major.
Mr. Mallo said minor would be changing a tire or putting a chain on; major would be probably rebuild
an engine or removing and replacing an engine. Commissioner McLeod said that he thinks there
needs to be, if this is passed, an outline approved of what is major and minor. Discussion.
Commissioner McLeod said the other thing is noise, can you get the Go Karts with a low noise
intensive discharge mufller. Mr. Mallo said that is what they come with, they have a 5 horse power
Honda motor and a low profile exhaust system, a bigger muffler. Commissioner McLeod said that
he thinks they need to have the highest density muffler available to be put on the Karts for where we
are talking about putting this; we have some concern as far as noise level. Mr. Mallo said he is using
all of Kart W orId's information, they have been in the Kart business and have referred me to
everything that he needs. Commissioner McLeod said then part of this agreement needs to have, if
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 25
a vehicle's muffler is bad ( has a hole, and is putting noise out), then that vehicle comes off the track.
Mr. Mallo said it would be off the track. Discussion.
Mr. LeBlanc reiterated what the commission wanted: noise abetment as much as possible; trees along
S.R. 434; and no major engine repairs on premiss.
Mayor Bush said he shares Commissioner ConnifPs concern regarding noise; and thinks not necessary
trying to "tone down" the engine as much as noise abetment around the track with landscaping,
whatever can be done to cut that down would be very appropriate.
Alternation of Conservation Easement over Winter Springs Golf course - Approval/Disapproval of
Dan Wood request to alter an existing conservation easement over the Winter Springs Golf course
resulting in a net gain of .518 acre (approximately 1.2 acre to the easement):
Mr. LeBlanc gave his showed the Commission on the map the property in question.
Commissioner Ferring said this has gone through, and has been quite in depth with the material we
received and sees no problem with allowing this to come to pass. Mr. LeBlanc asked with the
caveats? Commissioner Ferring said no, without the caveats.
Commissioner Gennell said she wanted to know more about the grandfathering of the road, because
the Highlands has supported grandfathering in that road and wants to know the logic is between not
including the whole package now while we are dealing with this. Mr. LeBlanc said this will come up
when development plans are submitted; the Code calls for the Commission to waive this, we don't
know if this will be single family or apartment units at this time; you will have an opportunity to
revisit that; this will not affect alternating the conservation easement at this time. Discussion.
Commissioner Gennell asked what impact will this request for grandfathering in a road have at this
point on this action we are about to take.
Mr. Dan Wood stated that the reason he thought the roadway issue was somewhat related to the new
conservation easement boundary, is if it were decided that the roadway, which is now there, which
is 22 feet wide, had to be widened at some point, it seems to me that that would automatically cause
an infiingement to the south on the conservation easement line which you are voting in tonight. So,
if you approve it tonight and later had to widen the existing roadway, the only place you could widen
it is up to 28' into the conservation easement and thought maybe we could discuss that at the same
time you approved the boundaries I've drawn on the survey you have.
Commissioner Ferring said he has looked at this property, and want to get the Attorney's opinion on
this as to whether or not there is any problem with us grandfathering this piece of property in. It
seems it was under Code compliance when it was originally built and the new development codes are
a little different than then are and doesn't see this being a major problem with grandfathering that one
section in. In lieu of the fact that this whole area will benefit from the improvements that are going
to be instituted by the Winter Springs Golf Course, including the design standards that was submitted
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 26
to us. commissioner Ferring asked Attorney Kruppenbacher is there was any problem that we can
waive the conditions on this issue and grandfather in the road that comes in off of Sheoah. Attorney
Kruppenbacher stated you could approve it tonight the way you would like to approve it subject to
my determining that that can legally be done~ ifwe have a problem we will bring it back to you, if we
don't we will be able to get it done, I will need to read through the Codes to double check.
Motion was made by Commissioner Gennell to approve the alteration to the existing conservation
easement and the grandfathering in of the road subject to the Attorney's review. Seconded by
Commissioner Conniff Discussion. Vote: Commissioner McLeod: aye~ Commissioner Conniff: aye~
Commissioner Ferring~ aye~ Commissioner Langellotti: aye~ Commissioner Gennell: aye. Motion
passes.
Board of Adjustment Recommendation - Approval/Disapproval of Board of Adjustment
recommendation to grant a variance to side year setbacks for that property located at 266 Morton
Lane:
Mr. LeBlanc stated that this was before the Board of Adjustment on September 7, 1995 and the
Board of Adjustment recommended approval and under the new Chapter 20 this has to come to you
for your approval. The lot in question is lot 4, the house is built on one and a halflots~ half of lot 3
and all of lot 4 and the house is build on lot 3 and is close to the property line. Mr. Jondraux has
become disabled and may have to sell this property, if he had to sell lot 4 there would be an
encroachment on the side yard easement. Discussion.
Commissioner Ferring asked what kind of assurance does the City have in the event that the lots are
sold with the new owner as far as a lot split is concerned. Mr. LeBlanc stated that lot 4 cannot be
split, it has been split already. Commissioner Ferring said in the minutes that he read, there was
discussion on a lot that could possibly be split. Mr. LeBlanc said lot 3 can be split. Commissioner
Ferring said can we make provisions and approve this with the condition that lot 3 would not be split
for the future. Attorney Kruppenbacher said you have the right under our Code to split a lot once,
if you want to make a contractual arrangement with the owner of the property, you want him to give
up that right, I think we could work that out, if he wants that. Discussion. Commissioner Ferring
said Mr. Jondreau indicates that he has no intentions and did not want to split the lot, but if he sells
that property the new owner can come in and say he wants to split the lot. Attorney Kruppenbacher
said he can make the presentation requiring the new owner to sign a document that runs with the
land, so if the property is sold, whoever buys it buys it subject to that agreement. Commissioner
Ferring asked Mr. Jondreau if he had a problem with that. Mr. Jondreau stated no, he had no
problem with that. Discussion.
Commissioner McLeod said what you are asking for is less than 10 feet to be put onto lot 4. Mr.
LeBlanc stated that lot 3 is not in question, Mr. Jondreau is the owner of one half oflot 4 and all of
lot 3, the house is located on the lot 4 portion. If Mr. Jondreau would have to sell the house the Title
Company would say the title is not clear because you have a code infraction in that the side yard
requirements of 10 feet is not met. What we are asking is for the side yard requirement on lot 4 to
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 27
be less than 10 feet. Discussion. Mr. Jondreau said his medical situation put him in a financial bind
so he needs to sell lot 3~ the variance is because the corner of the garage on lot 4 is about 8 feet from
the corner of the garage to the property line, so we are talking about 2 feet difference, I'm planning
if I have to sell my house on lot 4, I don't want my wife to go through problems trying to sell the
house, I'd like to get everything settled now under these circumstances. Discussion.
Commissioner Ferring stated Mr. Jondreau has indicated that he is willing to agree to what was
discussed earlier as far as not splitting lot 3 and I don't see where there is a problem, why don't we
give him the variance and let it go at that and the other thing will run with the land. Mr. Jondreau
states it in the minutes, if you have read the minutes, you have read the minutes right Mr. McLeod.
Commissioner McLeod said that is correct, he read a lot of things in the last two weeks.
Commissioner Ferring said you mean in the last two hours, and give me a break Mr. McLeod.
Discussion. Attorney Kruppenbacher said his recommendation is to give Mr. Jondreau a variance
subject to Mr. LeBlanc preparing and the City recording the covenant to run with the land to preclude
the split of lot 3.
Motion was made by Commissioner Langellotti to approve the Board of Adjustment recommendation
to grant a variance to the side yard setback. Seconded by Commissioner Conniff. Discussion. Vote:
Commissioner Conniff: aye~ Commissioner Ferring: aye~ Commissioner Langellotti: aye~
Commissioner Gennell: aye~ Commissioner McLeod: aye. Motion passes.
Discussion of city of Winter Springs suggestion/recommendations of Rails to Trails (Bike Paths)
Program:
Commissioner Gennell said it is her suggestion and she would like to volunteer to be our
representative on the task force that the County has created for this purpose and I have several
reasons why~ they created a task force of24 people to advise the County about this County wide trail
system and they are taking them from all different areas. They are not having their Staff as members
of it but they are rather using them as advisors, so that they can get representatives from all the
agencies. I've been a proponent for a long time of using the best skills on this commission at their
highest and best use, I've been involved with this issue for over five years, I'm familiar with the
agencies, representatives involved and I have a good working relationship with all of them already~
I'm sensitive with the concerns of the property owners and developers in our City, I'm familiar with
the concept involved and I don't think there should be a Staff member making recommendations on
policies for expenditures of tax money~ Commissioner Pat Warren specifically requested that I
volunteer for this position because she recognized that I've been involved with it for quite some time.
Our city is the main link to this section of the system and we have critical concerns in the entire
process, we need staff for input but the County is providing the technical expertise and I would like
to be the representative on that Task Force, I think I'm the best suited for it right now.
Commissioner Ferring said he has a problem with Commissioner Gennell being on the Task Force.
I think we've got pretty competent people in our City and on our Staff and for you to say that you
are the best qualified if fine, also you are a Commissioner in this City and you are going to have to
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 28
vote on this issue when it comes before us, I would like to have somebody on that committee that has
an unbiased opinion on what has to be done, and I don't think I would get an unbiased opinion from
you. I think that we've go qualified Staff that were there that can give the input that is needed for this
City and to protect this City in every aspect possible. I therefore, I don't think that you should want
to serve on this committee.
Manager Govorunk stated that he went to a meeting last week with a County Commissioner and the
City Attorney and Commissioner Ferring, I was asked to put an engineer on that committee and
remove the other two; I had a meeting the next day with Mr. Grimms, Mr. Wilson and Mr. Lockcuff
and told Mr. Lockcuffthat he would be on that committee because the County wanted an engineer
on at this time. I will have to say that I will have to double check with the County what do they want
and what don't they want because at that meeting last week they specifically said they wanted an
engineer on it.
Commissioner Langellotti said he definitely would see a conflict of interest in this if Commissioner
Gennell was on that Task Force because whenever this would come up before the City, I would want
to know why she would be voting the way she would be voting, I would question it. Another thing,
I would like to see some correspondence from Ms. Warren, who recommended this appointment, I
do not agree with it, I think we should leave up to Staff, a neutral person to represent us in this
procedure and especially after what the City Manager just stated.
Commissioner Gennell said she doesn't know who the City Manager met with. Manager Govorunk
said Randy Morris, and like I said the City Attorney and Commissioner Ferring was there when he
requested that; the next day we had a meeting and I had to change our personnel around for that
purpose. Discussion. Commissioner Gennell said she really feels that we are the main link in what
they are going to be doing, I have been telling you this for two years, if we don't get good strong
representation on there and in some cases to resist what they want to do, we may not be very happy
with the out come. Regardless of some Commissioners expressing doubts here about my ability to
vote fairly on an issue, and open mindedly, I take issue with that, however if it is the County
Commission's express consensus that they want technical people, I definitely would defer to that, but
my understanding was that they wanted representatives from each City and the agencies and it was
not to be in a technical field; I'll welcome any clarification, by the same token I think you need to
move somewhat quickly with this because they want to move quickly and have a meeting.
Manager GoVOrunk said when this was first brought up I said I would put the Parks and Recreation
Director on and our Planner on at that time and that is the way I was proceeding. I will clarify what
the County does want because we will be meeting (Managers throughout the County and County
Administrator) on this.
Mayor Bush said that City Manager should get in writing from the County Commission what it is they
are asking for because he hasn't seen any requests from Commissioner Warren. Commissioner
Gennell said it wasn't a written request it was in a conversation, it was a personal request to me.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 29
Mayor Bush said Ms. Warren needs to go through the proper procedures. Commissioner Gennell
said Ms. Warren didn't ask that I be appointed, she asked that I volunteer and I have just volunteered,
that was the extent of it.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said he wants to put in context of the conversation that came up with the
County Chairman, we met with the Chairman with Mr. Fening on the purpose of the Tuscawilla Road
widening, he being the representative of the City Commission; at the end of that meeting the
Chairman framed an issue and asked if he could ask about another issue; and asked what is going on
with the bike paths, does the City of Winter Springs even care to be in the middle of it. I will tell you,
to his credit, Mr. Ferring at that point said he didn't have any comment on that issue, that is not what
he is here authorized on and I spoke and said that my Commission is committed to the concept of a
rails to trails program. The County Chairman made it very clear that if we weren't interested they
would just as soon divert the money elsewhere; so we clearly identified to them, he then identified
and said that the committee at this point was critical because it was technical people analyzing what
could be done or not be done; that is the just of the conservation. Discussion. Attorney
Kruppenbacher said if you put a Commissioner on any committee you better define what the authority
of what that Commissioner is because I have no doubt after the first meeting I'll get asked if "X" had
the authority to say that, I would ask that if you make that decision at some point, clearly have a
definition of what it means for the elected official to be on the committee. Attorney Kruppenbacher
recommended that ifthere is a meeting of the task force between now and the next meeting, Mr.
Govorunk's Staff person attend that meeting and Mr. Govorunk needs to call the County Chairman
and ask for the letter. Commissioner Gennell said if we find that the other City's have Commissioners
on the task force, I think we need to look at it real hard as to what kind of representation we put on
there.
Mr. Tom Grimms, Community Development Coordinator and Mr. Don Wilson, Parks and Recreation
Director, gave the Commission an update on the City's concept of the trail system. Mr. Grimms said
we would like the City's trail system to link the parks, schools and inter-connect neighborhoods, if
possible. Mr. Grimms presented a map with the City's possible trail system and stated that this
concept is very preliminary. Discussion.
Mayor Bush asked ifthere was a motion to continue the meeting past 11 :00 p.m.
Motion was made by Commissioner Langellotti to continue the meeting past 11 :00 p.m. Seconded
by Commissioner Ferring. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod;
aye; commissioner Conniff: nay; Commissioner Ferring; aye; commissioner Langellotti: aye. Motion
passes.
Discussion of Mr. Ayala's Utility Bill:
Mayor Bush said this will be pulled from the agenda as Mr. Ayala is ill and will be put back on when
he can attend the meeting.
Attorney Frank Kruppenbacher: 1) Reports. 2) discussion of Commissioner presence at County Mtg:
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 30
Attorney Kruppenbacher stated that the Rotary Club has requested to have a balloons, Section 16-57
of the City's ordinances prohibited the size it says the following signs are prohibited: Balloon displays.
It talks about variances being granted and there is a question on whether a variance can be created
granted truly for this by the Board of Adjustment. The Rotary Group wants to have what would be
two balloons at the Art Festival for two different groups, in the past they have had a balloon and this
issue has surfaced whether under Section 16-57, balloon displays are prohibited. Discussion.
It was a consensus of the Commission to allow the Rotary Club to have the balloon displays.
Mayor Bush said referring back to Mr. O'Connell's comments, I think he was asking the City to
enforce deed covenants of the Homeowners Assoc. Attorney Kruppenbacher said when that
originally came up, Mr. Govorunk contact me because a citizen was objecting to the City's
withholding a permit because a Homeowner Assoc. would not grant approval. There just so
happened that there had been a recent California Supreme Court decision, virtually right on point that
said, fundamental principal is that you as a government can not give legally to a private group (you
can't delegate) your power. We had a long standing policy of not giving permits unless the
Homeowners Group signed off on it. Discussion. The City opted for the theory of going forward
with our practice of saying you are going to the Homeowners Groups until somebody had a problem
and tested us. After that somebody came in and challenged us, so we came back to the Commission
again and said the problem has come up again and the Commission approved the concept of stamping
on every permit that this is to provide you notice that you have or may have homeowner restrictions
that you have to comply with. It may be unpopular but the reality is it is the law, where we are
parties to the homeowners documents, with rights to enforce, we will only enforce them to the extent
that the public's health, safety and welfare is involved. Discussion.
Commissioner Ferring called for point of order and asked if this discussion part of the Attorney's
report or is this under questions under somebody's individual seat? Discussion. Mayor Bush said he
was responding to Mr. O'Connell's comments. Commissioner Ferring said that should be done under
the Mayor's seat and in all due respect and challenge your opinion on that. Attorney Kruppenbacher
stated that you all have asked me questions before under my seat on topics. Mayor Bush asked if the
Commission would like to hear the rest of the Attorney's discussion. The majority of the Commission
said yes.
Commissioner Langellotti mentioned that this subject came up from an incident in Tuscawilla because
they do not have a mandatory Homeowners Assoc. Discussion. Attorney Kruppenbacher said we
don't have the ability, where we aren't a party, to continue with this practice. Discussion. Attorney
Kruppenbacher said the general rule is that you cannot legally delegate your authority. We took that
position with everyone so you would have no difference between your homeowner groups,
mandatory or non-mandatory. It is an incorrect use of your governmental power to permit a private
homeowners group to use your power to control their private regulations.
Attorney Kruppenbacher said the next matter is the matter of commissioners presence at County
meetings. Since the last meeting I spoke with Wayne Holmes, Attorney for the State Attorney's
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 31
Office, and I would say to you the general proposition as follows: none of you have the right to
attend any meeting and stand up and represent this Commission and the City unless you are
authorized by this body to do that. To the extent you attend a public meeting and want to talk
regarding a matter that involves City business or may come in front of you, you do have the legal
right as a private citizen, I will caution you, that you disclaim up front that you are not there as an
elected official, and then you can speak. Mr. Holmes said to me, each one of you may choose to do
that but there will always those members of the public that consider that a charade, that you can't take
the hat off you are the elected official. You now go to the third issue of attending Staff meetings or
providing input to Staff, you have a policy that you are to go through the City Manager, it is
inappropriate for any of you to give your opinions to members of the City Staff on any City business
issue, based upon what you all have established as your guidelines. That has got to go through your
City Manager unless he said to you to deal with"X". Discussion.
City Manager - John Govoruhk: Reports:
Manager Govorunk stated the Commission has a memo with regards to notifying City Board
members when their term expires, I haven't received any replies back from anybody so I assume the
City Clerk will implement this letter procedures immediately.
Manager Govoruhk said I will like to make you aware of that the Civic Assoc., is having their
Christmas Parade coming up shortly and on October 22, 1995, they are involved in the annual golf
tournament. On November 8, 1995, the Senior Olympic Games are set for in Sanford. December
2 and 3, 1995, the Winter Springs Art Festival. In April 1996, the Easter Egg Hunt in Central Winds
Park will be held for youths up to 10 years of age, with individual age groups. We didn't have enough
time to work with the gentleman and get it all together this year so it is postponed until September
or October of 1996, which will be the Blue Grass F estivaVCraft Show at Central Winds Park. This
is to give you an idea of what the Parks and Recreation Dept. is working on.
Manager Govoruhk said John Ketteringham will be here and I'll be on vacation from October 9, 1995
to October 23, 1995.
Mayor Bush mentioned to the Manager that he noticed in the police Dept. that we are down four
officers. Manager Govorunk said he just signed the paper work for two more to come on board
within the next week and a half They are in the process of doing interviews and we are going to try
and keep at least two or three people on hold at all times.
Commission Seat II - John Ferring:
Commissioner Ferring stated that the Commission has a memorandum from him regarding a meeting
that he had with the County Chairman Randy Morris regarding the Tuscawilla Road widening project,
because there were some Commissioners felt that there was nothing being done in that area. We
discussed this in depth and Mr. Morris seemed to be very cooperative that he wanted to work with
the City, it explains this in the memorandum that I gave to you. Mr. Morris suggested that we do
follow these steps because he has undergone the experience himself with the widening of Lake Mary
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 32
Blvd. and said that our City Manager and or his Staff contact Lake Mary to find out what steps were
put in place and the pros and cons that come about with this type of operation. What I ask is if we
can get a consensus from the Commission that the City Manager and or his Staff get in contact with
Lake Mary to talk about this.
It was a consensus of the Commission to have the Manager contact Lake Mary.
Commissioner Ferring said he received a letter from a resident regarding the occupational fees. I
know we had a committee that set up the fees but this particular individual raised a good point, which
I wasn't aware of, whereby an occupational fee was raised from $25.00 to $100.00 which represents
a 300% increase. I wonder whether or not we can revisit that particular area to see whether or not
that we are the "stiffest" City there is as far as an occupational fee for an individual. Discussion.
Mayor Bush said Commissioner Ferring is asking for the Commission's consensus to have the City
Manager to study the fee structure especially the large increases, do we have consensus from the
Commission on that? Commissioner Gennell said yes, any that went up more than 50%, I question.
It was the consensus of the Commission to have the Manager look into that.
Commissioner Ferring said in our travels around the City with the widening of S.R. 434, I think the
State has to be congratulated for polluting the City of Winter Springs, they have their contractors
burning rubbish and trash that is stinking up the City. I wonder whether or not there is anything we
can do about stopping them from burning their trash and let them remove it like anybody else would
have to do in this City. Discussion. It was the consensus of the Commission to have the City to serve
notice on them to stop burning.
Commission Seat III - Commissioner Langellotti:
Commissioner Langellotti said last Thursday there was a meeting here of the 17-92 Task Force and
they had Steve Holman from the State Dept. of Transportation, and Rep. Bob Starks was present.
They came up with very good ideas on grant money that is available from the State for beautification.
They are going to get in touch with our City Manager but Rep. Starks spoke with Mr. Lockcuff and
Mr. Grimms and gave them the name of a person who could be instrumental in getting some grant
money to beautifY S.R. 434. They are willing to work with us as far as putting money into irrigation
and there was a question about planting trees. Mr. Grimms stated he knew about a special type tree
that they can put in the R-O-W. It was a very good meeting and everybody appreciated the City
furnishing the Chamber.
Commission Seat IV: Cindy Gennell:
Commissioner Gennell said she has a viedo that she received through CALNO, that belongs to the
City of Altamonte Springs and they are circulating it through he CALNO members and it is about
their central business district, they had this viedo made - in house; and it is for what would be the
equivalent of our Commerce and Industry Board. I'll leave it with the Clerk and she can give it to the
Recording Secretary of the CIDB to look at, then I'll need to give it to the next City. Manager
Govorunk stated ifwe can have that we will make a copy of it and give it right back to you and then
we will have our own copy.
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 33
Commissioner Gennell stated that she would like copies of any reports that Commissioner Ferring
has about me. Commissioner Ferring said they are on file in the City. Commissioner Gennell said she
saw one report. commissioner Ferring said he saw two reports. Commissioner Gennell said if you
would please let the City Clerk know which ones they are. Commissioner Ferring said you need to
talk to the City Manager, he will provide you with the reports. Commissioner Gennell said I would
strongly suggest that in the future any Commissioner who has any concerns regarding my activities,
that they raise it privately first, perhaps through the City Attorney so that I have an opportunity to
correct any misconceptions that they may have prior to them making a public statement and that is
for their protection.
Mayor Bush said he doesn't think that could be legally done because that would be a conduit and a
violation of Sunshine. Attorney Kruppenbacher said if somebody on this Commission raised an issue
to me about conduct about another Commissioner, I will tell you I would approach that
Commissioner but I would not identify to them who raised it, I would simply sayan issue has been
raised regarding your conduct, I could walk that line on the Sunshine, I will double check that
opinion, but I feel comfortable if any of you came to me and said that.
Commissioner Gennell said in the minutes it referred to reports from County people and I don't know
that those are in our.... Commissioner Ferring said we didn't say from County people... Commissioner
Gennell said it is right in the minutes two weeks ago...commissioner Ferring said he said he got feed
back from the County. Commissioner Gennell said in any rate, her point is that before a statement
is made publicly it should be clarified for your own sake.
Commission Seat V - David McLeod:
Commissioner McLeod asked if the Commission get tapes of the June 12th meeting as was suggested
to the Commission. Mayor Bush asked if the Commission had any problem with that. The
Commission didn't have a problem with that. Commissioner Ferring asked why are we reacting to
a citizen making statements that he is not happy with in respect to the open public hearings that we
have here. Discussion.
Commissioner McLeod stated that he would like to open to the public if they know of anyone who
would like to serve on the B.O.W.S. to please let him know, and he will have an appointment for the
next meeting.
Commissioner McLeod stated it was questioned as to what I do as to the way I took something as
a comment Mr. Ferring, and I'm not "picking" on you by any means, but you wanted to know ifI had
read something, Sir, it's none of your business as a Commissioner to Commissioner. It's none of your
business what I do week to week, and I'll tell you point blank and if you next attempt in life is you
think you want to attack me, then you come on; I'm not going to sit here and have you publicly start
coming at me because I will not put up with it for five minutes, and I'm going to tell you that right
to your face. I did not appreciate your comment to me this evening, not one bit and it seems that we
have more time to slam comments back and forth up here than sometimes to attend to what we
should be attending to and caring about what is going on in the community. Whether I have a
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 34
different opinion of another Commissioner on this Board, that is my prerogative, I have that right,
that is what we are up here for is opinions, when we get done with our opinions we then vote on the
subject. We have the right as commissioners up here to ask people questions and that's exactly what
I plan on doing.
Commissioner Ferring stated that all of a sudden how thin skin you get when someone makes a
comment to you but you have no regard with comments that you make. If you want to start a war
MR. McLeod, I'm not looking to attack you in any shape or form but if you have some kind of feeling
that I'm questioning you on something that is none of my business, when this was an issue that was
brought up on the Commission meeting, and I asked you whether or not you read it or not and you
said to me you've been reading it for two weeks. Commissioner McLeod said he stated that he has
read a lot of material in two weeks.. Commissioner Ferring said you said you read it in two weeks
and I know for a fact as of Monday morning you had a stack of documents in your thing, because I
go in here everyday and I know that you don't read your homework and you come in at the last
minute and cram, so don't try and tell me.. Commissioner McLeod said he begs to differ with you,
sir, I travel with this stuff. Commissioner McLeod said he doesn't have to answer to you and the
second thing I won't lower to that comment.
Commission Seat I - Larry Conniff:
No Report.
Mayor's Office - John F. Bush:
Mayor Bush said we have received letters from Jim Lup, Chairman of the Commerce and Industry
Board where he has made some recommendations concerning the information being passed through
the City to the Board. Mayor Bush asked if any of the Commissioners have any objections to any of
his recommendations, and what he would like to do is ask the City Manager to develop a procedure
to meet with what Mr. Lup is asking for because they all appear to be very reasonable. There were
no objections to have Manager Govoruhk work with Mr. Lup and get him the information that he
needs.
Mayor Bush said he hopes that the Commission saw the memo from the Manager concerning Mr.
McIntosh's estimate on what it would cost to bury the utility lines, and wonder if we shouldn't get
another estimate from another source. Manager Govorunk said he would leave it like it is because
we've checked with Florida Power and Lake Mary and that is pretty close to the "ball game".
Mayor Bush said he would like to ask the City Manager to contact Mr. Barnicky who sent a letter
to the Commission regarding the fees letting him know that the Commission has taken action to
review this and Mr. Linziny also wrote a letter about this.
Commissioner Langellotti asked what happened to the Lawsuit, the Hearing that was suppose to have
been held two weeks ago on a Tuscawilla lawsuit. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he was called to trial
that Thursday; so I called the opposing council, the hearing is now scheduled for October 9, 1995,
Regular Meeting City Commission
September 25, 1995
94-95-30 Page 35
it is a descressionary call by the Judge, we have asked for reimbursement for around $1,400 for court
reporter transcripts which the rule says you are entitled to. they have contested it on the grounds,
and have submitted an affidavit to the Judge from the court reporter that says that the transcripts were
ordered after the dismissal of the lawsuit, and therefore, they were not necessary to the defense of
the lawsuit and therefore they are inappropriately awarded. I am told by the person I deal with, that
she had called and ordered prior to that time and when I kept saying where were they, called again
then got them right away. It will be a pure judgement call by the Judge whether or not we are
awarded those costs or not.
Commissioner Langellotti said shouldn't we forget about it, because other fees are going to add up,
probably if not more than we will get. Discussion.
Motion was made by Commissioner Langellotti to dismiss the whole thing with collecting the fees.
Seconded by Commissioner Gennell. Discussion. Vote: Commissioner Conniff: aye; Commissioner
Ferring: nay; Commissioner Langellotti: aye; Commissioner Gennell: aye; Commissioner McLeod:
aye. Motion passes.
Mayor Bush asked if the schedule on finding the City Manager search on schedule. Manager
Govoruhk said yes, all the packages went out and will be turned into the Commission when we get
the 10 next month.
The meeting was adjourned at 11 :50 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
~1~~
City Clerk
~~
L> F. ~h J M.A,/tJL