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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995 09 11 City Commission Workshop Minutes . -_..._- - _.~._. _._~_.-.- --.... ._",-..--- .-.'~"""'__ ~-_"'''''._._' a.___.__.._ __ _.._--.....,......_~ WORKSHOP MINUTES CITY COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 11, 1995 . .... !'~~--::~i The Workshop of the Wmter Springs City Commission was called to order by Mayor John F. Bush at 7:00 p.m. ROLL CALL: Mayor John F. Bush, present Deputy Mayor John Langellotti, present City Manager John Govoruhk, present City Attorney Frank Kruppenbacher, present COMMISSIONERS: Larry Conniff, present John Ferring, present Cindy Gennell, present David McLeod, present :: ,"',j Mayor Bush stated that the purpose of the workshop is two-fold, one - the discussion of the impact fee credit issue and the second - the discussion of standard annexation agreement. '1 I Attorney Kruppenbacher gave the Mayor and Commissioners a folder which included copies of: the impact fee transportation ordinance used by the City of Oviedo, the impact fee ordinance used by the City of Altamonte Springs, a proposed ordinance (which is on for consideration tonight) from the City of Sanford for first reading regarding an economic development incentive program for development of commercial property, in addition there is a copy of the proposed annexation agreement given to you at the last meeting and a letter of September 6, 1995, from the Gray Harris Robinson Law Firm regarding an annexation agreement that we just received Friday (Mr. Govoruhk , and myself) regarding the Battleridge Company's property. I ...;:.... <;.;..q ~-.:t~ Attorney Kruppenbacher said first there was a discussion originally without the concept and somewhat (I think) because of the way people have talked about it throughout the community, the County and other Cities, of waiving impact fees for property to be annexed into the City for commercial property. We can not legally waive impact fees, no entity in the area is waiving impact fees. Our impact fee ordinance, as you will see in these others, contemplates credits for impact fees; for example: our transportation impact fee permits you to give credits to the extent you improve the road collector network of the City (as it's defined), you can get fire impact fee credits to the extent you do things for fire and then police. What some Cities have done (meaning one) is provide that if you have commercial property, we would waive the impact fees, I would prefer to talk to you about the development of commercial property not in the context of property to be annexed or non annexed. Commercial property wherever it is in the City - you could do one of two things: you could provide that if anybody was to develop property in the City for commercial business purposes, (meaning erecting square footage), you would in essence provide an impact fee credit (we would have guidelines for the type business you would be willing to do it for and size) and credit meaning you could policy wise elect to say that you would take from General Funds of the City and you would pay those impact fees and an economic incentive to get commercial business into the City on two theories. You would do it premised on the following theories: 1) you would be providing jobs for citizens within the community and 2) you would know that after "X" period of time, you would recoup that _____.,....:..... ..-Ji"--"': __.-:...._.... ___'_._."~"'''' ..~....~,.'....-,..~,.. Workshop Meeting City Commission September 11, 1995 Page 2 ':, :~,.~ in terms of the commercial taxes that would be generated off that property. In discussing this with a number of people there are options of saying "no" let the property owners pay it up front and we will repay them over time; but again I don't recommend, I think we have a real legal argument, you have an obligation to treat everybody the same in terms of when they are in the same classes, if you were to take the approach of "let's give a credit for property to get it annexed into the City, let's assume you annexed in the property and said you will give a credit and the property owner next to that property who is already in the city with commercial property says he is willing to develop" you will have a real hard time defending that theory. I will tell you that if you have a commercial incentive program you are going to get property, you don't need to distinguish classes, what you want is an incentive to get more quality commercial business within the City. From a policy standpoint you need to give us guidance - are you prepared to say you are comfortable a policy where we in essence would basically fund the impact fees as an incentive (and there are some other little fees that you could waive - inspection fees etc.) but the bulk being impact as an incentive to build the commercial base for our community. Policy wise you need to simply say to me and the City Manager yes we are comfortable the policy of your bringing back to us a plan where we would basically off-set as inducements to get quality commercial business within the City. :' :'-~';'1 ~ ":.:L~ Mayor Bush said you can't waive it but you can pay it out of the General Fund, so the City pays itself, the City pays the impact fee. Attorney Kruppenbacher said yes, somebody has to pay it and the Finance Director and City Manager has talked about what funds you could actually take it out of; what can't be is that we are waiving it. '-. ::;: -:';'. ;A Commissioner Ferring said basically is this the same strategy that is being used by the other Cities? Attorney Kruppenbacher said he has spoken to all the different City Attorneys and the approach that I am talking to you about is the consistent to with what the other Cities are doing. The simplified approach is to say go with the credit program for any commercial business, I think you want to clarify what you are prepared to give credit for as opposed to you don't want to give credit for a business you don't really want and we would have to fiddle through that. I think the Staff and I could work that out, to answer your question directly they are coming up with all forms of imagination on this. Commissioner Ferring said basically let's take the Oviedo Crossings for example.' Attorney Kruppenbacher stated that he has spoken with Attorney D. Mcintosh on this and asked if I was reading the agreement right, she said that Oviedo has not waived any impact fees. The County can't. . waive them either. Commissioner Ferring said so basically what we would be doing is taking it out of the General Fund and putting it into another area. Attorney Kruppenbacher said you would be expending dollars of the City for economic development of commercial business and we would be bringing back to you a refined ordinance that would do it within parameters. Commissioner Ferring said then the money would not leave the City. Attorney Kruppenbacher said that is correct, not under the scheme that I'm talking about, you wouldn't put money in somebody's pocket. . ..~:-::.;,: Commissioner Conniffsaid you mentioned that ifwe did get some sort ofan abatement and we would be able to recoup some of this? Attorney Kruppenbacher said if you read through the analysis on that, and I talked to the League of Cities about it, what the different States are basically saying is if we get "X" business in and we know it is a long term commitment in "X" period of time, we are going ~ __.-_.._....~ ..,-.,.c:..."'........ ~............ Workshop Meeting City Commission September 11, 1995 Page 3 recoup that money. Discussion. . . , Mayor Bush said the Attorney is asking for the Commission's guidance for himself as well as the City Manager on whether or not they should prepare an ordinance for the Commission's review. Discussion. Commissioner Langellotti asked if this was strictly for road impact fees? Attorney Kruppenbacher said we would be looking at all impact fees. Commissioner Langellotti asked if that would include water hook-ups. Attorney Kruppenbacher said no, we have bonding requirements there; I say impact all impact fees, I know I'm dealing with transportation, we will look closer at the other two, but I would anticipate that. ,,-'..' Commissioner Gennell asked if you are going to look at encouraging businesses, and I'm of the opinion that businesses are going to come because we are going to have a very nice area for the businesses and they are going to want to come here, i.e. McDonalds and the people that we have stacked up right now to come in as it is; however, if you want to go ahead and give incentives to get them here quicker, are you then going to have to raise the millage on the short term for the money you are taking out of your General Fund to subsidize these people. Mayor Bush said he would assume that the Commission would set some kind of a limit on this, which the City Manager would have to work into the budget preparation which would take into account the millage. CoIllIl1issioner Ferring said he doesn't feel the Commission has enough information to make an intelligent decision, and would like to see Staff put forward some figures to us on what this would mean to the City, and at the same time whatever you are doing as far as getting the ordinances put into place. This is also directed at areas where we are looking to entice property owners to come into this City that along our corridor that we presently do not have in our City, is that correct? Attorney Kruppenbacher said that is correct, it is common sense if you had a commercial impact fee credit program, one of the things I would talk about to Staff is whether or not they want to bring back a recommendation to you that defines a corridor. The answer would be if I'm outside the City and I know that if I came into the City I would have incentives, it wouldn't take the developers long to weight what is the cost of doing it here vs what's the cost of doing it in another area. One of the benefits of that is if somebody builds a major commercial center right next to your City, you're going to absorb the burden of that commercial center without the benefit. Commissioner Ferring asked what is the procedure for the review of alternative impact fee calculations? . Commissioner McLeod said I think what I'm looking at is three different scenarios of possibilities and you are asking us to have you go ahead and put one together; wouldn't it behove the Commission to have the opportunity to basically look through the three scenarios. Attorney Kruppenbacher said the only issue that he wanted the Commission to be aware of tonight is to clarify that you cannot waive the fees, there has to be a design plan for funding of that issue, how you get to that, the kind of parameters has to be thought through. Commissioner McLeod said he agrees with Commissioners Gennell and Ferring that he thinks there should be by the City Manager and his Staff some kind of an outline to the Commission as to what they felt could happen dollar and cent wise; and I think it is very important that we look at this from a standpoint of reviewing the upcoming next 2-5 years worth of development and what kind of an impact if we give too many credits and what level of .- -- .-~.~'."- . -.,. _.~ .'. .._. -...... .'.-. -.- Workshop Meeting City Commission September 11, 1995 Page 4 . .:... ~:' credits can we give without effecting the taxpayers that live in the City. My understanding of impact fees is so that the taxpayer does not pay the burden of development, so by doing this we turn around and put it back to the taxpayers then why don't we just get rid of impact fees altogether. Attorney Kruppenbacher said what I am hearing you and Commissioner Gennell and Ferring say is you would like some comfort level financially. Commissioner McLeod said he thinks the City Manager needs to put something in dollars and cents to us from his Staff indicating at what level can we do this and do this comfortable as to what we are doing. Commissioner Gennell said she just wants to call the Commission's attention as to the reason some of these places are doing this and is so popular in other areas and it's because they do have high unemployment problems, they are in economic decline and they have specific needs that we really don't have here at this time and maybe not in the foreseeable future; so the fact is that we are going to be in demand as it is and I just don't want to give the whole thing away unnecessarily. ., :~.~.. Commissioner Conniff said he is in favor in letter the City Attorney and City Manager move forward on this, and thinks they are sensitive to the fact that a certain percentile is going to have to be looked at and he doesn't think the Commission will let anything go.without monitoring any adverse effect it will have on the overall budget; fm in favor at least to let them go ahead and see what they can come up with and come back to us. ... '.J ,.....:.1 Commissioner Fening said the ultimate goal is to bring business into this City with the objective being that it's going to increase the per-capita for this City, we will therefore benefit our citizens by getting this increase taxes from these commercial enterprises. I have no problem with doing that, all I would like to see is that our Planners set some kind of goals and objectives as to give us a "thumb nail" sketch on if we wanted to induce property owner into this City, what would be the ultimate gain financially. Mayor Bush said he feels that all Commissioners have said basically the same thing, they would like the City Manager and Staff to work with the Attorney to bring back an analysis of what this kind of an impact fee credit is going to have on our millage rate and taxes, the benefits of it, the problems with it and I think let's ask the Manager to work with his people and maybe at the next regular scheduled meeting give us an update on their progress. Also it will give the Commission a chance to read what they were given tonight. There was no objection from the Commission as to what the Mayor said. Mayor Bush said next is the standard annexation agreement: Attorney Kruppenbacher said what we are seeing are a number of properties and I would prefer not to deal just with the first draft that I gave you, a number of properties who are looking at annexing into the City of Winter Springs. We are seeing in discussions with them a desire, which is understandable, and to get you ready for the process, that they are prepared to annex into the City if we are prepared to negotiate with them and work through a development agreement with the property that you would deal with contemporaneous with the annexation, so that they are coming into Workshop Meeting City Commission September 11, 1995 Page 5 the City and they know what they are coming in, you know what they are coming into to do with the property and they know what they are coming in and they have, as opposed to they come in and they thought they were going to develop a commercial piece of property and somehow someone politically decided there is going to be a four acre tract of home; as you know having dealt with developers, they are very worried with that, time is money to them, so to the extent they can work these agreements with the Staffahead of time and with you ahead of time then it is done and everyone knows the rules, then the project can be developed on their property, they make their money, we get the project we want without a problem and everyone arguably wins in the process. One of the issues that has surfaced is on annexations, would we be willing to give impact fee credits, I don't need to address that in the context of whether it be commercial or residential because we are already approaching you about credits for development for any commercial property so I think it is a mute issue there. Neither the Staff nor I recommend that we engage in any impact fee credit program for residential property at this point equates to the benefit attributable to the development of quality commercial because that gives jobs etc. We are prepared to negotiate through the development of a project and bring it to you and take you through it and see if you are comfortable etc., and try and work out agreements with these perspective parties that want to annex. Weare seeing and I have said to the developers, if you think that we legally can waive impact fees then you do the memorandum of law and you explain it to me, so we are trying to make them do a lot of the work. One of the things we are going to have to look at is be willing to have the patience to have the Commission look at developments up front and try and iron out and work with a lot of these issues up front, so it may be that we are going to need to have workshops here and there as we work through these annexations. We have met with the Staff and developers of some properties recently and the City Manager, Utility Director and the Land Management Specialist were very good in their protecting the City but at the same time being willing to work and make some reasonable accommodations that would enhance and provide benefit for annexing into the City. The most critical thing that we are seeing is that the developer or owners want to deal with us in terms of certainty, they want to know what is going to happen. We are basically doing a lot of planning prior to that property ever being in your jurisdiction, to put you in the position at the time the property is annexed you will be able to immediately deal with the property. Discussion. Attorney Kruppenbacher asked the commission to review this and get back to either him or the City Manager. Commissioner Gennell asked about parcels that are mixed use. Attorney Kruppenbacher said he would ask the Planner and Staff on that. Commissioner Conniff stated that he is very comfortable with Staff reviewing everything, he has a lot of confidence in the Staff and would like to make sure that they are involved in all the aspects. Mayor Bush stated this issue is in the City Manager's hands at this time and will have another update on the annexation information for the Commissions review. The workshop adjourn d at :30 p.m ~'- . ~y Submitte , Margo M. Hopkins, City Clerk